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[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi, I'm Steve Adubato and welcome to a very important compelling program about public policy in our state and a little bit in our nation as well.

We're honored to be joined by the Senate President of New Jersey, Steve Sweeney.

Mr. President, how are you doing?

- I'm doing great, Steve.

How about you?

- We're doing great.

We may be remote and one day in a studio but we still have important things to discuss.

Can we talk about state finances right out of the box?

- Sure.

- How are we doing financially in New Jersey a year plus into the pandemic, from your perspective?

- I actually think we're doing much better than anyone ever anticipated, Steve.

Our numbers are good, pretty much across the board.

We were all looking at doom and gloom but I think we're in a much better place than we anticipated.

Thank God.

I feel very grateful that we're looking at a positive and not a negative.

- So, in terms of the governor's budget.

We'll talk about President Biden in a second and the $1.9 trillion relief package, if you will and its impact on New Jersey.

The governor's priorities in this budget, what do you see them as being A and B would yours be different?

- Well, they might be a little bit different in the way they approach some things, Steve.

One, I really don't want to create a whole bunch of new programs this year because we don't fund the programs that we have at hand.

So, I don't want to do an expansion of government.

I wanna fund what we need to fund.

Education's important, the governor is funding it.

I'm thrilled he's making the full pension payment.

It's the first time in 25 years, I think, that the full required pension payment's being made.

It kills me, Steve.

The pension payments should have been $800 million if everyone had paid into it the way they should.

And now we're like 5.6 billion.

Think about all that money, because they misused the dollars back in the days and like it's Republican and Democrat.

There was just so many bad decisions made and you know, let the next governor get it, let the next legislature get it.

And basically we got to a point where there's no way of handing it off.

Our finances, we're still challenged.

Just 'cause of budgets coming in good doesn't mean good days are ahead, good times are here.

We need to actually be responsible with the money that we're looking at.

- You know Senator, does it make it harder?

Because every time you've been with us you've talked about being fiscally responsible.

I'm not gonna say conservative, fiscally conservative.

People can choose whatever word they want to use.

But you said, "Hey we need to be serious about our fiscal situation "and the bills we have to pay moving forward."

But now there's this massive infusion.

Infusion of federal dollars into the state of New Jersey from two federal stimulus packages.

Can that skew the discussion about the need to be more fiscally responsible moving forward?

Because we're flush right now.

- Yeah.

Well the answer is no.

Or as my daughter would say, "Yeah, no."

(Steve laughing) Steve, 'cause we're flush today.

We gotta live beyond today.

We have to look at the future and the future is not shining.

And unless we make smart decisions and this money can be spent over four years I'm told.

So it should be used and spread out so that we don't create cliffs.

One of the big things I'm concerned with it's creating a cliff.

We gave schools 700 million in this budget.

You don't wanna turn around next year and say, "Oh, we don't have it.

You get no more."

You know what I'm saying?

So we don't wanna go backwards.

We want to continue to go forwards.

So it's just measuring these investments properly and leveraging these dollars so that, you know... We do have longterm problems here in New Jersey.

Our water infrastructure, is in critical, critical shape.

So how do we address that?

Do we use some of this money to address that?

Do we use some of this money, to replace money with debt?

So we had borrowed 4.2 billion dollars.

- Were you okay with that, Senator?

I asked you at the time, way back when this happened, and I think you said under these extreme circumstances, you were okay with it.

Looking back, still the right decision?

- No.

Looking back, we should have waited.

But again, moments in time, Steve it's how- - Hindsight.

- Hindsight.

Like I said, you got a 50/50 chance of coming out right with it.

But I would like to get rid of that debt.

Or look, the governor was able to get a really good interest rate.

The administration got a good interest rate on this money.

So let's find other debt with higher interest rates so we can buy that off.

You know what I mean?

Reduce debt if we can.

- Can I do this?

We're gonna date ourselves because we're taping on the 23rd of March, it will be seen later.

But real quick, (sighs) marijuana in the state, that issue, the legalization of marijuana, complex on a lot of levels, help us understand Senator, as the law is right now, may be changed, who knows, there are police officers and you've heard them they've spoken to you that have said that we believe our hands are tied behind our backs because if a 14 or 15 year old is smoking pot and we want to engage that kid.

We run the risk, by the way can't call the parents, in the law, we run the risk of being accused of overstepping our bounds.

Help us on why is that in the bill?

- But listen, a lot of members felt, Steve, that police, and I want to make this clear, our police in New Jersey are, we've got great police.

We have outstanding police.

Are there some bad ones?

Of course there are.

There's bad in everything.

But the vast majority of our police do an outstanding job.

Some of our members, Steve, in my caucus felt, I live in West Deptford.

If my son got pulled over or got caught with it they would come over knock on my door and say "Mr. Sweeney, your son was playing with marijuana.

"We want you to know."

Where in Newark, they lock the kid up and that's what our members feel.

And I'm not gonna challenge my members for living their life experiences, Steve.

When a kid gets arrested, when a kid gets arrested your life can be ruined for minor marijuana possessions.

You know what I mean?

It's hard to get beyond an arrest record but we are fixing that provision.

That provision is absolutely going to be fixed, so that they'll notify the families on the first offense.

But again my members, Steve and I don't live in Newark, but my members say justice isn't evenly handed out.

It's community to community and I'm not gonna dispute what my members are telling me.

- Got it.

Senator the nursing home situation.

When we had the governor on, many, many months ago.

And we hope to have him on again to talk about this and other issues.

I asked the governor about the nursing home the decision early on, not when we know what we know now, but then, about sending people back into nursing homes who were there and then got treated and came back and the separation wasn't there.

The personal protective equipment was not there et cetera, et cetera.

And people got sick and died.

Worse in New York.

The Cuomo situation is what it is.

But in New Jersey, when I asked the governor, he said, "Look basically we trusted the nursing homes to do what they said they were gonna do."

He said, "They didn't."

To what degree in your view did the governor make the wrong decision?

Or again, is that looking back based on what we know now?

- Well, you know, Steve it's not fair.

In some ways to say, you made a mistake.

They thought they were making the right decision.

- Right.

- Right?

They thought they were making the right decision.

Obviously it was not the right decision.

It was the wrong decision.

Plus they weren't prepared.

The nursing homes did not have the PPE, by the way the hospitals didn't have PPE.

And I'm not known as a defender of the administration, you know that, but remember why they were moving people back is because our hospitals had been overrun.

- That's right.

Especially the ICUs - Yeah, we were over 8,000 patients in the hospital beds.

And my brother's Mercy Medicine Doctor.

- He's a physician.

- He was wearing, we had to get him a construction respirator with big canisters on it, 'cause they didn't have 'em.

Face shields that they used for grinding.

My point is, we were caught flat-footed.

You can't defend the decision to put the people back in the nursing homes 'cause it was a mistake.

But I go back to, if we knew today, what we knew then and they made that decision, that's wrong but they didn't, Steve.

They didn't.

- Got it.

I'm gonna do a school regionalization section in a second.

But I wanna just do this.

In an effort not to in any way be self-serving but we're coming up on the 10th anniversary of what was NJTV in the state and what is now NJ PBS.

An experiment 10 years later, it speaks for itself.

People can decide, but you were a key player then and now.

Your view of the role of public broadcasting in New Jersey at this critical time.

Particularly New York and Philadelphia on the other ends and you're on the Philadelphia and I'm up on the New York end.

The role of public broadcasting in the state.

- Steve, I think it's critical.

You know, we are hurt, the people of this state are hurt from the decline of the print industry.

As you say, you know, we have a North, Central and South and you get New York and I get Philly and the center gets a little bit of both.

And what we always valued was being able to get our own stuff.

You know, where people actually can go and really find out what's going on.

So I think, what you do and the station does it's critically important because you cover the whole state.

You know, you're paying attention to what's going on in New Jersey.

So I very much support public television, I always have.

- And by the way, check out NJ PBS the website for "NJ Spotlight News" and all the other programs.

Real quick on this.

School regionalization, what do you propose, got about a minute and a half left Senator, What'd you propose?

And why is it so hard to get there?

- What I'm excited about, Steve, is that I have a bill that the teachers unions, the principals, the supervisors, everyone's on board with.

There's only one group that's not on board with it.

And that's the superintendents.

What we're trying to do is come up with a more affordable model of education.

Not taking the kids out of...

Your kids still going to go to the same school.

They're still gonna have their fourth grade teacher.

The differences is instead of an administration, you're gonna have a principal.

You know what I'm saying?

You're you're gonna have more of a centralized administration.

And this is a voluntary bill and everyone I've spoken to has said, if it was voluntary, they're good for it.

And the exciting thing is, there are districts in New Jersey right now, voluntarily looking at doing this.

So once it starts to happen, I think you're gonna see that people are gonna say, "Hey listen, the world didn't come to an end.

"We saved a few bucks and our schools are great."

- By the way, we'll follow up with the Senate President, Steve Sweeny on this and other issues in a few months.

But Senator, I want to thank you so much for joining us from the southern part of the state.

And we look forward to continuing the conversation about important policy issues in New Jersey.

Thank Senator.

- Thanks for having me, Steve.

You got it.

I'm Steve Adubato, stay with us, we'll be right back.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To watch more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- Back by popular demand, we have State Assemblyman, Jon Bramnick.

He's the Republican Assembly Leader.

He may be attempting to move...

Wait, actually you are attempting to move to the State Senate.

Am I wrong about that, Assemblyman?

- You're right.

Senator Kean is retiring after 20 years and I'm gonna run for his seat in District 21, as a State Senator.

- Got it.

Hey, let's talk public policy.

The uh, budget put out by Governor Murphy.

Your sense of what is good about it and what concerns do you have, Assemblyman?

- What's good about it?

It's an election year, so he said he's not raising taxes or fees.

So, I think every year we should have an election year, because that's the only time it seems, that The Democratic governors don't raise taxes.

Interestingly enough-- - Or Republicans, but go ahead.

(Steve laughing) - Well, the Republicans tend to do that quite a little bit more than the Democrats.

- Okay, go ahead sir.

- We may not do other things quite as well, but we're pretty good at fiscal stuff.

- But what don't you like about it, Assemblyman?

- What I don't like is, you borrow $4 billion and you basically put that in surplus and then, you brag that you have all this money in surplus.

I mean, that's like borrowing on your credit card and you know, putting in the bank and being like Ralph Kramden from "The Honeymooners."

You know, we've got financial security.

Maybe you don't, you borrowed the money.

See, I think this year, luckily for this governor, there's so much money coming in with the Biden package, of $1.9 billion, borrowing 4 billion and revenue actually being better than was expected, during the pandemic.

He's one lucky guy, let me tell you, in terms of this election year, but I think it's...

Unfortunately, we're going to be paying a piper, pretty soon.

- So, let me ask you, in terms of public policy, you can look at the Star-Ledger or The Record or any other publication and online platforms, as well.

The ongoing conversation is about nursing homes and veterans' homes.

The decision that was made early on in the pandemic, to send people with COVID back into those facilities and a number of those people, unfortunately got sick and died and others who were not sick, when those people came in.

Do you give the governor a pass on this, because he only knew what he knew then, not what we know now.

- Well, it is very sad.

Unfortunately, I'm not an expert, in terms of making a decision under those circumstances.

And I actually don't give a pass, but I've not been one out criticizing the governors on those early decisions.

Now, someday we may look back and when we have all the information in and I may be critical.

Right now, what I'm critical about, is he has basically gagged people from testifying before the legislature.

He's held held no open or public hearings, where people could talk to him face to face.

So, all the people who are suffering, we had to do that as Republicans.

All I want is an opportunity for people to be heard.

- Yeah, I'm confused about this.

I know the Republicans called for hearings, legislative hearings on the governor's overall COVID leadership.

And part of that is, has to do with the issues regarding nursing homes and veterans homes.

Am I correct that no Democrats are participating in that, in the state legislature first?

Is that accurate, Assemblyman?

- Yeah, that is accurate.

And once again, let me reiterate my position here.

If you owned a restaurant, you own a gym, you own a small business, when was there an opportunity to testify before the governor or before the legislature?

Now recall, we're under an executive order, a state of emergency.

You tell me... And the media always wants transparency.

You tell me when people had an opportunity to be heard before this governor, while he was making a decision for one year?

That doesn't mean every decision he made was wrong, but I can tell you it is wrong not to have an opportunity to speak before him, when he's the only one making decisions.

- Hold on, but all... Are you also saying... By the way, this is Assemblyman Jon Bramnick.

He's the leader of The Republican Party in the lower house.

He's in fact running for the State Senate, that'll be vacated by Senator Tom Kean.

Um, but I'm curious about this: you're also saying that members of the Murphy Administration and that includes leaders in the Department of Health, Commissioner Persichilli and others.

Have they just re... Have they refused to testify and participate in those hearings?

- Yes.

But look, I understand when Republicans are having hearings that they don't wanna testify.

I'll even give them a pass on that, but what I won't give them a pass, let's assume Steve Adubato owned a restaurant or he owned a gym or he was a small business owner or he had a mom in a facility, right?

Why were there no hearings, to hear from you?

It doesn't make any sense.

We've had hearings on silly subjects, before the legislature.

The governor-- - But excuse me, for interrupting Assemblyman.

During the pandemic, in a crisis, decisions have to be made quickly.

You're saying legislative investigatory hearings in the middle of that crisis?

- I never said investigations.

I said, the governor is making decisions for one year.

When was there a "virtual town hall meeting", where he could hear from the public?

Every decision was being made behind closed doors.

When did the legislature ever have a hearing, where people could be heard?

It doesn't matter whether they're right or wrong, but when you suppress them from testifying... We testify on bills all the time, but you can't testify whether you open or close society, whether you're open or close schools.

Why aren't parents able to testify about their kids being home?

Zero.

That to me, is my judgment disrespectful of the public.

- Let me share this.

Uh, some of you may be wondering, because it's been a while since we've had the governor.

We will continue to make requests.

The governor's office has said that the governor will be joining us for an in-depth, half-hour conversation on the issues, on the policies, on his leadership to date.

That date has not been locked in.

I assure you on our end, we'll continue to do that.

I don't know why you're making a face Assemblymen, as my ear piece popped out, as I said that.

- He's been on MSNBC.

He's even been on Fox.

- He's on a lot of national programs.

I'’ve seen him.

Well, what I'm saying is, on national TV all the time.

Interestingly enough, he's not going on the Steve Adubato show.

I find that a little interesting myself.

- Well, we are hopeful and optimistic that he will.

And when he comes and joins us remotely, I assure you it'll be a substantive conversation, just like this.

How about this one?

Um, the January 6th insurrection.

A: the implications of it.

B: what does it mean for the future, not just of the country, Assemblyman, but The Republican Party, led by former President, Donald Trump.

- I think you said it, former President, Donald Trump.

You know, I was a critic of many things he did.

Uh, in my judgment, him being in the rear view mirror, uh, and it doesn't take very long for people to forget in politics.

Politics has a shelf life of about three to six months, I think.

So, I think that we've heard very little from Donald Trump.

I think in New Jersey where he's unpopular, the focus will now be on Governor Murphy, which is I think, just fair.

- Yeah, but at the same time... (Steve sighing) Nationally, Assemblyman, Donald Trump's sway, power, influence over The Republican Party is incredibly strong.

The challenge to people in primaries who challenged him...

Him, the former president making it clear that he is going after those who have questioned him and challenged him in Congress and others.

That's real.

And his influence on January 6th, was real.

His influence on those who participated in January 6th and those who believe that "No really, no big deal," January 6th, is real.

Please don't minimize it Assemblyman, just because he's not popular in New Jersey.

- Well, I don't know exactly what the question is, but I can tell you now-- - Well, the question is this: is it The Republican Party or the Trump party?

- Well, I can tell you right now, that's not how I define my party.

- Not you Jon, you're the exception.

Some would argue you're the exception Assemblyman-- - Is the question, whether or not Trump still has power over the party?

No doubt.

- And whether someone like you, who's independent minded, who has respectfully question the former president and his actions, in his tone, his demeanor and his leadership, whether frankly there's a place for you?

- Well, it's very interesting, because they tried to take me out last time.

People said I wasn't Trump enough and on the left, they said I was too much like Trump.

I believe that The Republican Party, is the party of people like George Bush, Ronald Reagan, the Kean family, Rodney Frelinghuysen.

To me, that's the essence of the party.

Respectful, civil, small government, lower taxes, uh, less regulation.

That's what we're about.

And I understand the rhetoric of Donald Trump can be very hurtful and I think it...

I believe in the long-term, that will be in the rear view mirror.

- Last question Assemblyman.

By the way, thank you for joining us always.

As always, you answer the questions directly.

Clearly, whether people agree or not, it's their business.

Hey, legalize marijuana.

We're taping on the 23rd of March, it'll be seen later.

I saw the Mayor of Point Pleasant, police officers in Point Pleasant saying, "Hey, wait a minute.

This law, as it currently stands..." And I don't know what's gonna change about it, Assemblyman.

That would stop cops, if I get this right, from approaching and potentially apprehending underage kids smoking, getting high, getting out of control on the boardwalk.

The Mayor was saying, "Wait a minute, you're tying cops' hands behind their back."

What is being done to change this, so that underage marijuana consumption is dealt with appropriately?

- This was the dumbest law in the history of New Jersey and I'll take a bet that you can't find one dumber.

And here was the law: if a police officer approach a young person who had marijuana and alcohol... Let's say a 14 year old young girl or boy.

They were not permitted to tell the parents of that child what they found.

Clearly-- - In the law?

In the law?

- That was the law.

And if you did tell the parents, you were guilty of a crime.

I'm talking about the police officer.

So, that part of law is going to change, but the chan...

But it will not include this so-called criminality that they're placing on police officers.

So, police officers are terribly concerned.

One last part about this law, which has not changed.

We're changing it I believe, on I'll say Thursday, but I never know when you're-- - No, but no listen, follow this to see what happens.

So, hopefully this is dated, but go ahead.

- And finally, if a police officer stops a motor vehicle and smells marijuana coming out of the car, out of the vehicle, that is not probable cause.

That is the law.

Now, here is I believe...

I'm not going to justify-- - Few seconds, Jon.

Go ahead.

- Yeah, no.

Very simply, this law has got to be changed.

It's ridiculous.

It's over the top.

It was really stupid and I think even the Democrats agree with me now.

- This has been State Assemblyman Jon Bramnick from the 21st Legislative District, the Assembly Republican leader.

As always Assemblyman, an honor to have you with us.

Thank you so much.

Best to you and your family.

- Thank you, Steve.

Same to you.

- I'm Steve Adubato.

Thank you so much for watching.

We'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato Is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by RWJBarnabas Health.

Seton Hall University.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

NJM Insurance Group.

Delta Dental of New Jersey.

Fedway Associates, Inc. Operating Engineers, local 825.

Eastern Atlantic States Regional Council of Carpenters.

IBEW Local 102.

And by these public spirited organizations, individuals and associations committed to informing New Jersey citizens about the important issues facing the Garden State.

And by Employers Association of New Jersey.

Promotional support provided by ROI-NJ, And by Insider NJ.

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But just who are NJM'’s policy holders?

They'’re the men and women who teach our children.

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And New Jersey'’s next generation of leaders.

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NJM, we'’ve got New Jersey covered.