REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

WE HAVE A VERY IMPORTANT GUEST TODAY, SENATOR JEFF STEINBORN, DEMOCRAT FROM DONA ANA COUNTY, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>JEFF: ALWAYS MY HONOR, THANKS FOR HAVING ME, LORENE.

>>LORENE: WELL, YOU WEAR MANY HATS, AND I AM HAVING YOU HERE IN YOUR CAPACITY AS VICE-CHAIR OF THE RADIOACTIVE AND HAZARDOUS MATERIALS COMMITTEE BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME ISSUES NOW WITH THE FEDS AND OUR OWN STATE ABOUT A DEPOSITORY FOR HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE IN NEW MEXICO.

AND A LOT OF NEW MEXICANS FEEL WE ALREADY GAVE, WE HAVE BEEN ON THIS NUCLEAR TRAIN FOR A LONG TIME AND WE FEEL THAT WE SHOULD NOW NOT BE THE REPOSITORY FOR ALL THE SPENT FUEL RODS IN THE COUNTRY TO COME TO NEW MEXICO.

SO, YOU PASSED A BILL, SB53, WAS IT?

>>JEFF: SENATE BILL 53.

>>LORENE: RIGHT.

THAT PROHIBITED CERTAIN RADIOACTIVE WASTES FROM BEING STORED IN NEW MEXICO.

SO TELL US ABOUT THAT AND THEN GIVE ME THE BACKGROUND OF WHY YOU CAME HERE.

>>JEFF: YEAH, YEAH.

WELL, WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT FOR A WHILE AND YOU HAVE BEEN DOING A GREAT JOB COVERING AND EDUCATING NEW MEXICANS ABOUT THIS PROPOSAL.

THERE HAS BEEN A LICENSE APPLICATION WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO CREATE A FACILITY HERE PRIVATELY OWNED BY A COMPANY NAMED HOLTEC INTERNATIONAL TO SHIP 10,000 CASKS OF HIGH-LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE, ALL THE COUNTRY'S NUCLEAR WASTE TIMES TWO, TIMES MORE THAN TWO, INTO NEW MEXICO TO STORE HERE INTO WHAT THE TECHNICAL NAME IS THE CONSOLIDATED INTERIM STORAGE FACILITY FOR A 40 YEAR LICENSE TO STORE ALL THIS MATERIAL NEAR CARLSBAD AND HOBBS.

AND AS EXPECTED, THIS LICENSE APPLICATION WE FELT SURE THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WAS GOING TO PROBABLY GIVE THEM A LICENSE AND OUR STATE NEEDED TO ACT AND SO WE DID.

WE PASSED A LAW IN THE CLOSING DAYS OF THE SESSION MAKING IT ILLEGAL TO STORE OR SHIP THAT MATERIAL INTO NEW MEXICO AND MADE IT ILLEGAL FOR THE STATE TO ISSUE PERMITS FOR THE CONSTRUCTION AND OPERATION OF IT UNLESS THE STATE EITHER SUPPORTS IT AND IN AN ADDITION TO THAT, THERE IS A PERMANENT REPOSITORY AND OPERATION IN THE COUNTRY.

BECAUSE SEE THAT IS ONE OF THE FALLACIES, IT IS CALLED AN "INTERIM FACILITY," BUT THERE IS NO PERMANENT FACILITY.

>>LORENE: THAT'S RIGHT AND IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO STOP THEM RIGHT THERE.

>>JEFF: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: BECAUSE INTERIM BECOMES FOREVER.

>>JEFF: THAT'S RIGHT AND IT WAS DEFINITELY PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE AND MAKING NEW MEXICO THE GUINEA PIG AND THE FALL GUY AND WHATEVER OTHER ANALOGY YOU WANT TO USE THAT IT WOULDN'T BECOME PERMANENT BECAUSE, IN FACT, THERE IS NO PERMANENT REPOSITORY EVEN IN DEVELOPMENT IN THE COUNTRY.

THE LAST ONE WE HAD WAS YUCCA MOUNTAIN, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PUT THE BRAKES ON THAT.

SO THEY REALLY NEED TO GET ON WITH FIGURING THAT OUT BECAUSE THIS MATERIAL WILL BE RADIOACTIVE FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

>>LORENE: THIS WASTE WILL REMAIN LETHAL LONGER THAN THE 300,000 YEARS MAN HAS WALKED ON EARTH.

>>JEFF: YEAH, YEAH, URANIUM HAS A VERY LONG HALF-LIFE AND THE RADIOACTIVITY OF THIS MATERIAL, YOU KNOW, THESE CASKS WERE ONLY DESIGNED FOR 40 YEARS, ONLY PERMITTED I SHOULD SAY FOR 40 YEARS THAT THEY BE SHIPPED IN, SO IT'S REALLY THROWING NEW MEXICO OVER A CLIFF WITHOUT A NET AND SAYING, GOOD LUCK, WE HOPE THAT THESE 10,000 CASKS DON'T SUDDENLY START FAILING YOU A DECADE OR TWO INTO THE FUTURE.

NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ESTIMATES THAT THERE WOULD BE UP TO 13 RAIL ACCIDENTS SHIPPING THIS MATERIAL ACROSS THE COUNTRY INTO NEW MEXICO.

SO IT IS REALLY ALL RISK, ALL LONG TERM LIABILITY FOR THE STATE, NO UPSIDE AND VERY DISRESPECTFUL BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T CARE THAT NEW MEXICO REALLY DIDN'T WANT IT.

AND SO THEY TRIED TO SHOVE IT DOWN OUR THROAT, WE SAID NO AND WE FOUGHT BACK, IT WAS AN EPIC FIGHT IN THE LEGISLATURE, THEY HIRED ALL KINDS OF LOBBYISTS INCLUDING SOME FORMER STATE ELECTED OFFICIALS.

WE FOUGHT TOOTH AND NAIL, A LOT OF VOLUNTEER ADVOCATES, I MEAN IT WAS REALLY DAVID VS GOLIATH.

THE NIGHT BEFORE THE SESSION ENDED, WE PASSED A BILL, GOT THE BILL UP TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK AND WE SIGNED THAT SUCKER INTO LAW WITHOUT A MOMENT'S HESITATION AND NOW WE HAVE CREATED SOME PROTECTION FOR OUR STATE.

>>LORENE: THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH.

BY THE WAY, THERE IS REAL SCIENCE ABOUT ALL THIS STUFF.

AND ALTHOUGH THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF ANTI-SCIENCE BACK LASH THESE DAYS, I WOULD LIKE TO RECOMMEND THERE IS A WEBSITE CALLED WWW.WORLD-NUCLEAR.ORG AND IT IS JUST THE SCIENCE ABOUT NUCLEAR ENERGY, NUCLEAR WASTE, AND WE HAVE TO BE GUIDED BY THE SCIENCE, WE REALLY HAVE TO.

>>JEFF: ABSOLUTELY.

>>LORENE: AND SO THEN THE FEDS DECREED THAT ALL OF THE USED, SPENT RODS, NOW WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT A NEW IDEA CALLED CONSENT-BASED SITING.

>>JEFF: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: SO IT TURNS OUT, SO THE SOLUTION WE ARE LOOKING AT THE PROBLEM, WE HAVE NUCLEAR ENERGY, WE HAVE THIS WASTE, WE HAVE GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

AND SO A LOT OF PEOPLE ASKED CAN WE PUT IT IN GLASS AND BURY IT, CAN WE PUT IT IN THESE 40 YEAR CASKS, WHAT ABOUT THE TRAIN ACCIDENTS.

YOU KNOW IN NEW JERSEY THE WORKERS COME OUT TO CLEAN UP THE MESS AND THEY DON'T HAVE HAZMAT SUITS, YOU KNOW IT IS DANGEROUS ON SO MANY LEVELS.

SO ONE OF THE SOLUTIONS WAS CALLED CONSENT-BASED SITING WHERE THERE ARE COMMUNITIES WHO DON'T WANT THE WASTE CAN SEND IT AWAY AND COMMUNITIES WHO WILL WANT TO BE COMPENSATED, THERE IS AN ECONOMIC INCENTIVE FOR THEM TO DO THIS, THEY CAN HAVE THE SITING NEAR THEM, IT'S CONSENT-BASED SITING.

AND THEY WERE OFTEN GIVEN AS MUCH AS TWO MILLION DOLLARS TO HAVE THIS AND THEN FOR SOME COMMUNITIES WITH THE CHANGE IN THE WORKFORCE, THE ECONOMY AND ALL THE CHANGES IN THAT, THEY COULD USE THE TWO MILLION DOLLARS TO HAVE THIS AND THEY WOULD TRY TO MAKE IT AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE.

AND SO, IT IS NEW MEXICO THAT PUSHED THE FEDS, TELL ME ABOUT THIS, TO HAVE A NEW WAY TO DO THIS.

>>JEFF: YES, WELL THIS ACTUALLY STARTED IN THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.

THERE WAS A NEW, UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, THERE WAS A NEW INITIATIVE, VOLUNTARY, NOT ROOTED IN LAW ALTHOUGH THEY APPROPRIATED MONEY FOR IT, TO ACTUALLY SEE THE PUSHBACK, I MEAN EVEN THOUGH WE PASSED A LAW AND THAT WAS THE APEX OF OUR FIGHT, ALTHOUGH THE FIGHT CONTINUES, TEXAS HAD PREVIOUSLY PASSED A LAW THEY WERE FACING THE SAME SITUATION WITH A PRIVATE COMPANY LICENSING A SITE THERE, THEY PASSED A LAW.

SO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, SEEING THIS, FINALLY STARTED TO DEVELOP A MORE RESPECTFUL PROCESS TO SEE, MAYBE WE OUGHT TO SEE IF THERE IS A COMMUNITY THAT ACTUALLY WANTS THIS STUFF.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>JEFF: AND THE WORD THEY USE IS CONSENT, A CONSENT-BASED PROCESS.

SO THEY STARTED PUTTING OUT AN RFP WHERE THERE ARE COMMUNITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT HAD SOME INTEREST IN THIS AND NOW JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO, THEY ANNOUNCED GRANTS OF TWO MILLION DOLLARS I THINK PER GRANTEE AND THERE ARE A COUPLE OF DOZEN AND MANY OF THEM ARE CONSORTIUMS INVOLVING UNIVERSITIES, IRONICALLY OUR COMPANY HOLTEC, WHO IS HIGHLY DIVERSIFIED AND THEY GET THEIR HANDS ON ALL SIDES OF THE NUCLEAR INDUSTRY, ACTUALLY FORMED A CONSORTIUM WITH THE NUCLEAR INDUSTRY TO GET ONE OF THESE GRANTS, WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY PURSUING A POTENTIAL LAWSUIT AGAINST OUR STATE THAT IT FLIES IN THE FACE OF CONSENT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T CONSENT AS A STATE.

SO THAT IS A LITTLE HYPOCRITICAL I WOULD SAY, HOLTEC TAKING THAT MONEY WHILE STILL PUBLICLY SAYING WE SHOULD SUE THE STATE.

>>LORENE: TALKING OUT OF BOTH SIDES OF THEIR MOUTH.

>>JEFF: YEAH, BUT WE CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN NEXT IN NEW MEXICO WITH THIS ISSUE HERE, BUT YES, THERE IS A WHOLE NEW INITIATIVE... >>LORENE: I HAVE A LIST OF THE AWARDS FOR THE CONSENT-BASED SITING AND EACH SITE WILL GET ABOUT TWO MILLION BUCKS AND IT'S EVERYWHERE, UNM IS ONE OF THEM, BUT BOISE STATE, CLEMSON, HOLTEC, OF COURSE, KEYSTONE, MISSOURI, NORTH CAROLINA.

>>JEFF: AND THIS IS REALLY JUST TO DO RESEARCH AND ADVANCE A CONVERSATION, THIS IS NOT AN END SOLUTION OR AN END PAYMENT.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JEFF: BUT WITH SECRETARY GRANHOLM, A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO SHE WAS IN CALIFORNIA OFF THE COAST OF CALIFORNIA AND THE SAN ONOFRE NUCLEAR PLANT WHERE THEY STORE SOME WASTE AND SAYING THAT WE HAVE A SOLUTION TO SHIP THAT WASTE TO ANOTHER SITE.

>>LORENE: BECAUSE IT IS ON TWO EARTHQUAKE FAULTS, IT IS ON A VERY CRUMBLY SEACOAST.

>>JEFF: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: A TSUNAMI WOULD SWEEP IT ALL OUT TO SEA.

>>JEFF: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: I MEAN THIS IS PROBABLY THE WORST.

>>JEFF: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: THE MOST DANGEROUS LOCATION.

>>JEFF: BUT IN THAT, YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT, BUT IN THAT MOMENT WHEN SHE MADE THAT ANNOUNCEMENT AND FOLKS CAN LOOK THIS UP ON THE INTERNET FOR NEWSCLIPS ABOUT OUR SECRETARY OF ENERGY CURRENTLY SECRETARY GRANHOLM, FORMER GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN, TALKING ABOUT THIS NEW DEVELOPMENT WITH SAN ONOFRE, SHE SAID WE ARE DOING A CONSENT-BASED PROCESS, WE HAVE JUST ANNOUNCED THE AWARDS.

WE ARE MOVING THIS SITE BECAUSE IT IS SENSITIVE TO ANOTHER PLACE AND OH, BY THE WAY, THERE WILL BE ECONOMIC INCENTIVES WHERE IT IS GOING.

SO ALL OF THAT PAYMENT AND ALTERNATIVE FUTURE TO HOW THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE RESPONDING TO THIS WASTE, WE DON'T NEED A ONE SIZE FITS ALL, LAZY MODEL WHERE WE SHOVE IT DOWN SOME STATE'S THROAT WHETHER THE WASTE SHOULD BE MOVED OR NOT SO THAT SOME COMPANIES CAN MAKE A FEW BUCKS AND TO HECK WITH THE CITIZENS.

LET'S CONSOLIDATE PLACES LIKE SAN ONOFRE THAT NEED TO BE PUT IN A LITTLE BIT SAFER AREA.

BUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, IN MY OPINION, NEEDS A WHOLE NEW APPROACH THAT NUMBER ONE IS ROOTED IN CONSENT BUT ALSO HAS THE SAFETY ASSURITIES, THAT HAS APPROPRIATE COMPENSATION TO A STATE THAT ACTUALLY WANTS TO TAKE ON THIS RISK.

SO I THINK THAT THEY HAVE GOTTEN THE MEMO AND I THINK NEW MEXICO BY US PASSING OUR LAW I THINK WE HELPED MOVE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN THE COUNTRY IN A MORE JUST DIRECTION ON FIGURING OUT AND GETTING ON WITH A BETTER PROCESS.

>>LORENE: AND ALSO THE LANGUAGE IS SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE EVEN WITH OUR WIPP, WHICH IS THE WASTE ISOLATION PILOT PROJECT, THERE WAS NO PILOT FOR ANYTHING, IT WAS THE THING ITSELF, IT WAS IN THE END GOAL AND SO WHEN WE SAY, WELL, THIS IS THE INTERIM SOLUTION, IF THERE IS NO PERMANENT ONE.

WE CAN'T ACCEPT THAT.

>>JEFF: RIGHT.

EXACTLY, WE HAVE SEEN THIS ALL PLAY OUT BEFORE AND WE HAVE SEEN HOW THIS MOVIE ENDS EVERY TIME.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JEFF: AND THAT IS WHY NEW MEXICANS ARE SAYING, "NOT THIS TIME, IT IS NOT FAIR TO OUR STATE AND LET'S GET IN FRONT OF THIS ONE BEFORE IT EVEN HAPPENS."

>>LORENE: NOW THERE WAS A MOVEMENT WASN'T THERE, TO KEEP ALL THE SPENT FUEL RODS AT THE SITE OF THE NUCLEAR POWER PLANT AND ONE OF THE UNUSUAL IDEAS THAT THEY SHOULD SEND ALL THE STUFF HERE IS THAT WE DO NOT HAVE OUR OWN NUCLEAR POWER PLANT HERE.

THEY HAVE THEM ALL OVER THE EAST COAST AND THEY HAVE THEM ON THE WEST COAST BUT NOT HERE, SO WHY?

>>JEFF: I MEAN BECAUSE THEY COULD AND BECAUSE THEY EXPLOITED A WEAKNESS IN THE FEDERAL LAW THAT ALLOWS A COMPANY TO BASICALLY TRIGGER A PROPOSAL LIKE THIS BY SIMPLY APPLYING FOR THIS LICENSE.

AND THE LAW HAS A HUGE HOLE IN IT IN THAT IT DOES NOT GIVE A STATE THE RIGHT TO SAY, WE OBJECT, WE OBJECT TO THIS LICENSE APPLICATION.

AND THAT IS WHERE WE NEED TO CHANGE THE FEDERAL LAW TO PUT CONSENT IN STATUTE TOWARDS MANDATORY REQUIREMENTS AND FRANKLY, I THINK REALLY IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WANTS TO GO WITH INTERIM STORAGE, WELL, I THINK THEY NEED A MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED APPROACH THAT ALMOST HAS THEM TAKE TITLE OF THE WASTE AND HAVE THEM GUARANTEE THE SAFETY, HAVE THEM COMPENSATE A STATE NOT MILLIONS BUT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR VENTURING DOWN THAT ROAD.

BUT REALLY THE SOLUTION IS A PERMANENT REPOSITORY, THAT IS A DEEP GEOLOGICAL REPOSITORY, THAT IS WHAT OUR FEDERAL LAW REQUIRES UNDER THE NUCLEAR WASTE POLICY ACT IS DEEP GEOLOGICAL REPOSITORIES, THAT IS THE INTERNATIONAL STANDARD FOR THE SAFEST LONG-TERM DISPOSAL FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF THIS MATERIAL IN A WAY THAT FUTURE GENERATIONS AND CIVILIZATIONS WON'T BE HARMED BY THIS STUFF.

THAT'S WHAT OUR COUNTRY NEEDS TO GET ON WITH THE BUSINESS OF THAT.

>>LORENE: WE ARE SPEAKING TODAY WITH SENATOR JEFF STEINBORN, A DEMOCRAT FROM DONA ANA COUNTY AND VICE-CHAIR OF THE RADIOACTIVE AND HAZARDOUS MATERIALS COMMITTEE.

SO WERE THEY THINKING ABOUT CARLSBAD CAVERNS, LET'S GO BACK TO YOUR STATEMENT THAT THE STANDARD, HIGHEST LEVEL AND THE BEST WAY TO DO THIS IS TO PUT IT UNDERGROUND IN A STABLE GEOLOGICAL SITUATION, AND I THINK, WASN'T THERE AN IDEA WHEN IT WAS GOING TO BE IN SOME SALT CAVERNS THAT THEY COULD PUT IT IN THERE AND THEN CAPSIZE THE TOP SO IT WAS COMPLETELY INCASED IN THESE SALT MATERIAL AND BE NEUTRALIZED.

>>JEFF: WELL, THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT THE WIPP SITE IS, IT IS A BIG SALT FORMATION AND THAT IS THE WHOLE GEOLOGY OF THE WIPP SITE.

IT IS A MINING OPERATION DEEP INSIDE SALT FORMATIONS THAT ARE CONSTANTLY MOVING AND WHEN THEY ULTIMATELY LEAVE BEHIND A TUNNEL IT WILL INTOMB ITSELF AND ALLEGEDLY HAVE NO FILTRATION OF WATER OR AQUIFERS OF THIS MATERIAL INTO THE WATER TABLE.

AND THEY FEEL LIKE THERE IS A LOT OF THAT KIND OF GEOLOGY AROUND THIS PARTICULAR SITE, BUT NO, WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE, THIS PRIVATE, HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE PROPOSAL IS NOT WIPP AND SOME PEOPLE CONFUSE THE TWO.

IT IS NOT BURIED UNDERGROUND, THESE ARE GOING TO BE CANNISTERS BASICALLY SITTING ON THE SURFACE JUST SLIGHTLY SUBMERGED UNDER THE GROUND AGAIN BY DEFINITION, AN INTERIM, TEMPORARY SITE, BUT NO, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RECOGNIZED THAT THEY NEED A DEEP GEOLOGICAL REPOSITORY.

YUCCA MOUNTAIN WAS NOT A SALT FORMATION AS I UNDERSTAND IT, BUT I MEAN I THINK IT IS BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FIGURING OUT WHAT IS A MORE SUITABLE SITE AND FRANKLY, THEY SHOULD CONTINUE TO STORE MATERIAL WHERE THEY ARE SAFELY STORED ON SITE, THEY SHOULD CONTINUE TO KEEP IT THERE UNTIL THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS ON THE FINAL TRACK OF OPENING A PERMANENT REPOSITORY.

AND IF THERE IS A PLACE LIKE SAN ONOFRE WHERE IT IS VULNERABLE THEN MOVE IT, CONSOLIDATE IT WITH ANOTHER SITE, BUT INTERIM IS JUST A WAY TO KICK THE CAN.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JEFF: IT IS JUST A WAY TO KICK THE CAN AND AVOID DOING THE HARD WORK AND THEN THE PROBLEM WOULD FALL TO SOMEONE LIKE NEW MEXICO, WHICH IS JUST UNACCEPTABLE.

>>LORENE: I HAVE SEEN PICTURES OF, YOU KNOW, EVERY COUPLE OF FEET THERE IS A SQUARE AND IT IS ALL CEMENT AND THEN THERE WERE THESE SQUARE BOXES ON THERE.

AND IT DOES NOT LOOK, I DON'T WANT TO GO WALKING THROUGH THERE.

>>JEFF: YEAH, IT IS BIZARRE AND WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT 10,000 CANNISTERS AND WHAT IS INTERESTING AND A QUESTION THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE IS THE AMOUNT OF MATERIAL THAT WOULD BE PERMITTED OVER THE COURSE OF ALL THE EXPANSION PHASES THROUGH THE COMPANY, HOLTEC, THE SITE WOULD BE MORE THAN DOUBLE THE NATIONAL AMOUNT AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE RAISED THE QUESTION, WAS HOLTEC ALSO WANTING TO SHIP IN INTERNATIONAL HIGH LEVEL WASTE INTO NEW MEXICO BECAUSE OF THE MASSIVE QUANTITY THAT WOULD BE PERMITTED TO BE SHIPPED HERE, WAS MORE THAN TWICE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

SO WHAT WOULD STOP THEM FROM SHIPPING IN INTERNATIONAL WASTE.

SO IT IS JUST... >>LORENE: NO.

>>JEFF: YEAH, IT IS KIND OF OUTRAGEOUS.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JEFF: WE ARE REALLY GLAD THAT WE PASSED THIS LAW AND NOW WE HAVE SOME LEVERAGE OVER HOPEFULLY STOPPING THIS.

>>LORENE: SO THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION HAS STATED THEY WANTED ALL THE SPENT FUEL RODS TO COME HERE AND BEFORE THAT WE HAD THIS LAW SAYING WE PROHIBIT CERTAIN MATERIALS TO COME HERE.

>>JEFF: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: SO, THE FEDS IN THE PAST SAID, WELL, WE ARE THE FEDS AND YOU ARE ONLY A STATE AND WE HAVE JURISDICTION, WE ARE BIGGER THAN YOU AND WE ARE GOING TO INSIST.

SO WHAT IS THE DYNAMIC NOW BETWEEN THE NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION AND OUR STATE WITH THIS IMPORTANT PROHIBITION OF THIS RADIOACTIVE MATERIAL?

>>JEFF: IT IS REALLY INTERESTING.

THE FEDS DID, SO THEY DID AS EXPECTED GIVE, IN MAY THEY GAVE HOLTEC A LICENSE TO BUILD AND OPERATE A CONSOLIDATED STORAGE FACILITY.

THEIR PHASE I, WHICH WAS 500 CANNISTERS WITH BUILT INTO THEIR APPLICATION WAS AN ADDITIONAL 20 PHASES TOTAL FOR 500 CANNISTERS A PIECE FOR A TOTAL OF 10,000 CANNISTERS.

THEY WERE ALSO GIVEN A LICENSE OF COURSE TO TEXAS TO WASTE CONTROL SPECIALISTS TO A COMPANY IN TEXAS TO DO THIS.

SO THEY HAVE LICENSED THESE FACILITIES, THEY HAVEN'T SAID IT THE NATIONAL POLICY THAT WE ARE GOING TO PUT IT HERE, I DON'T THAT WOULD NECESSARILY BE THE RIGHT WAY TO PUT IT BUT THEY LICENSED IT, SO THEY HAVE CODIFIED IT AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS NOT TAKEN TEXAS TO COURT WHO PASSED THE LAW FIRST.

THEY WOULD HAVE TO RULE OUR STATE LAW AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO RULE IT ILLEGAL THAT IT VIOLATED FEDERAL LAW IN ORDER TO SHIP THIS HERE AND HAVE IT NOT BE AGAINST THE LAW.

SO AT THIS POINT IN TIME, YOU KNOW, WE'VE STOPPED IT UNLESS THEY WANT TO TRY AND TAKE US TO COURT AND THERE IS A LOT OF DEBATE EVEN IN SOUTHEASTERN NEW MEXICO WHERE SOME OF THE FORMER SUPPORTERS OF THIS LIKE EDDY COUNTY VOTED UNANIMOUSLY TO SAY, WE OPPOSE, THEY ACTUALLY VOTED TO OPPOSE ANY LEGAL ACTIONS WITH THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO, SO THEY ARE RECOGNIZING AND SHOWING SOME HUMILITY TOWARDS THE CITIZENS OF THE STATE.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JEFF: SAYING WE DON WANT THIS - WE PASSED A LAW.

MEANWHILE YOU HAVE SOME OF THE COMMUNITIES THERE LIKE CARLSBAD WHO VOTED TO TAKE US TO COURT WITH HOLTEC PAYING THE TAB AND WE HAVE OUR GOOD FRIENDS AT HOLTEC TAKING MONEY FOR CONSENT-BASED PROCESS WHILE THEY ARE SECRETLY TRYING TO GIN UP, FOMENT AN APPETITE TO SUE THE STATE TO SHOVE IT DOWN OUR THROATS.

SO WHERE THINGS WILL END UP, WE DON'T KNOW, OTHER THAN I FEEL LIKE RIGHT NOW WE HAVE STOPPED IT AND THEY ARE SOUL SEARCHING AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THEY REALLY WANT TO DRAG THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO AND THEIR FELLOW NEW MEXICANS THROUGH YEARS OF EXPENSIVE COURT BATTLES TO SHOVE THIS PROJECT DOWN OUR THROATS AND WE CLEARLY DON'T WANT IT AND WHERE COMMUNITIES AROUND THE STATE LIKE THE ONE I REPRESENT LIKE LAS CRUCES IS GOING TO HAVE RISKS, TOO.

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TRAINS GOING THROUGH OUR COMMUNITY, THEY REALLY SHOULD RESPECT THE WISHES OF THE WHOLE STATE.

>>LORENE: SO THAT IS THE WEAK LINK IN THE CHAIN IS TRANSPORTATION.

>>JEFF: YES.

>>LORENE: AND SO, THERE ARE TRAIN DERAILMENTS ALL THE TIME FOR ALL KINDS OF REASONS AND THE OTHER THING IS, THEY ARE PRETTY MUCH A TARGET IF YOU HAVE GOT HIGH LEVEL NUCLEAR WASTE COMING THROUGH AND THE TERRORISTS WANT TO TAKE THIS MATERIAL AND USE IT FOR THEIR OWN GOOD.

WELL, THERE IS NO SECRET WAY TO DO THIS, IT IS COMING IN ON A TRAIN, THERE IS A TRAIN TRACK, YOU KNOW IT IS GOING TO COME BY THERE AT SOME POINT AND YOU CAN'T DO ARMED GUARDS AND, THERE ARE SO MANY PROBLEMS WITH ALL OF THIS.

>>JEFF: YEAH, >>LORENE: SO I REALLY AM PLEASED AT THE CONSENT-BASED SITING, THE PEOPLE WHO WANT IT WILL BE COMPENSATED AND YOU CAN HAVE IT.

BUT THEN THERE IS GETTING IT THERE.

>>JEFF: OH YEAH.

LISTEN, I THINK THE INTERIM, THE WHOLE CONSOLIDATED INTERIM THING WAS NOT A NATIONAL POLICY DRIVEN SOLUTION, IT WAS AN INDUSTRY DRIVEN SOLUTION TO HELP THEM GET RID OF THEIR WASTE SO THEY CAN MAKE MORE OF IT WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT THE LONG-TERM ASPECTS OF IT.

SO NOW THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS ACTUALLY THINKING ABOUT A THOUGHTFUL WAY TO MOVE FORWARD, THAT IS A GOOD SIGN AND HOPEFULLY BY VIRTUE OF WHAT NEW MEXICO HAS DONE IN PASSING THIS LAW, WHAT TEXAS HAS DONE.

NOW IN MICHIGAN, HOLTEC IS TRYING TO DUMP, I THINK, A MILLION GALLONS OF TOXIC WASTE FROM ONE OF THEIR PLANTS INTO THEIR LAKE.

THEY ARE TRYING TO PASS LEGAL ACTION, I MEAN WE'VE SHOWN THAT THE STATES CAN RESIST.

>>LORENE: YEAH >>JEFF: YOU CAN ASSERT YOUR VOICE.

SO HOPEFULLY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REALLY WILL SAY, HEY, LEGALLY, THIS IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO WITH HIGH LEVEL WASTE AND LET'S GET ON WITH IT.

AND WE WILL HOPE THAT THAT CONTINUES, BUT OTHERWISE, YOU KNOW, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE FIGHT CONTINUES, AND NEW MEXICANS NEED TO STAY VIGILANT AS THERE ARE THOSE THAT WOULD STILL TRY TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN HERE.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JEFF: WE NEED TO LET OUR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS KNOW WE WANT THEM TO KEEP FIGHTING IN WASHINGTON FOR US.

>>LORENE: WELL, I LOVE NEW MEXICANS THEY ARE POLITICALLY ACTIVE AND WE LOVE OUR STATE AND WE WANT TO PROTECT OUR STATE.

SO THAT IS THE VALUE OF A SHOW LIKE THIS TO LET PEOPLE KNOW WHAT COULD BE ON THE TABLE.

>>JEFF: ABSOLUTELY.

>>LORENE: AND THEY SAY IF YOU ARE NOT ON THE MENU, YOU ARE MOST LIKELY ON THE TABLE.

SO WE WILL SEE.

>>JEFF: WELL SAID.

>>LORENE: BUT THERE ARE SOME OTHER THINGS GOING ON.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS HAPPENING NATIONALLY IS AN AWARENESS OF SINGLE USE PLASTICS.

>>JEFF: YES.

>>LORENE: AND EVEN I THINK THE UNITED NATIONS IS WORKING ON A TREATY.

>>JEFF: YES.

>>LORENE: TO ALTER OUR USE OF SINGLE USE PLASTIC, BECAUSE WE COULD BE BURIED UNDER YOU KNOW WATER BOTTLES.

THERE JUST HAS TO BE PERHAPS A CHANGE.

WHAT ELSE, WHAT ELSE IS GOING ON THAT WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT?

>>JEFF: WELL, THE PLASTICS IS A BIG DEAL AND HERE IN THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO, WE USE OVER FIVE HUNDRED MILLION SINGLE USE PLASTIC BAGS A YEAR - MOST OF WHICH ARE ENDING UP IN OUR ENVIRONMENT AND WE ARE FINDING THAT THESE PLASTICS NEVER REALLY BIODEGRADE, THEY END UP BEING REDUCED TO WHAT ARE CALLED MICROPLASTICS AND THEY ARE SHOWING UP IN THE MOST PRISTINE ENVIRONMENTS, BEING CONSUMED BY WILDLIFE, GETTING, YOU KNOW, CAUGHT IN RECYCLING SYSTEMS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT REALLY MADE TO RECYCLE, SO THEY ARE COSTING COMMUNITIES MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES JOKED THAT IT'S KIND OF THE NEW MEXICO UNOFFICIAL FLAG IS A PLASTIC BAG HANGING IN A YUCCA.

>>LORENE: OH NO.

>>JEFF: AND SO AS I TRIED TO PASS A BILL THIS LAST SESSION BANNING SINGLE USE PLASTIC BAGS IN THE STATE.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JEFF: THE BILL WENT VERY FAR, IT DIDN'T PASS, DIDN'T DIE, JUST DIDN'T GET A FINAL VOTE ON THE HOUSE FLOOR.

BUT, YES, I MEAN INTERNATIONALLY THEY ARE MOVING TO REDUCE THE USE OF SINGLE USE PLASTICS, THE EU HAS PASSED A WHOLE REGIME WHERE THEY ARE REQUIRING THEIR MEMBER COUNTRIES TO TAKE MEASURES TO REDUCE THEIR USE OF PLASTICS.

AND NOW, THE UN IS NOW WORKING ON AN INTERNATIONAL TREATY OF 170 TO 180 COUNTRIES, THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO PASS AN INTERNATIONAL TREATY BY NEXT YEAR SO THE STATE OF COLORADO JUST THIS LAST YEAR PASSED A LAW BANNING THE USE OF SINGLE USE PLASTIC BAGS BUT ALSO THE SINGLE USE STRAWS AND SOME OF THEIR CONTAINERS.

SO NEW MEXICO, THE LAND OF ENCHANTMENT, OUT TO GROWING OUTDOOR ECONOMY, THIS IS A REAL ISSUE AND I HOPE THAT WE TAKE UP HOW WE CAN REDUCE PLASTICS TO PROTECT OUR LAND AND OUR WILDLIFE AND ENVIRONMENT.

>>LORENE: I THINK THEY ARE MAKING CARDBOARD STRAWS NOW.

I MEAN... >>JEFF: PAPER STRAWS, YEAH.

>>LORENE: PAPER STRAWS, YEAH.

BUT THERE IS SO MUCH THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

>>JEFF: YES.

>>LORENE: YOU DO A LOT OF WORK WITH OUTDOOR RECREATION AND SO, I AM GOING TO HAVE YOU COME BACK ANOTHER TIME.

>>JEFF: ALRIGHT.

>>LORENE: BECAUSE WE HAVE MADE SOME WONDERFUL ADVANCEMENTS AND I AM JUST SO THRILLED ABOUT HIKING SEASON WHICH IS UPON US AND SO IF YOU COME BACK SOON.

>>JEFF: SURE.

>>LORENE: MAPS, CHARTS AND ALL OF THAT STUFF.

>>JEFF: YEAH, WE WILL GET INTO IT.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

BUT DO YOU HAVE A LAST WORD FOR OUR PEOPLE IN TERMS OF BEING CONSCIOUS OF THE NEW OPTIONS FOR NUCLEAR WASTE AND HOW WE CAN PROTECT OUR STATE?

>>JEFF: YEAH, I MEAN YOU KNOW, WE HAD A WIN HERE ON THIS ONE AND WE CAN BREATHE A LITTLE BIT EASIER FOR THE MOMENT, BUT IT IS GOOD, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES WHEN I TALK WITH PEOPLE IN OTHER STATES ABOUT NUCLEAR ENERGY AND WE TALK ABOUT HOW CLEAN IT IS, I HAVE TO REMIND THEM THAT NEW MEXICO HAS BORNE THE BRUNT OF URANIUM MINING AND OVER A THOUSAND ABANDONED URANIUM MINE SITES.

>>LORENE: AND BY THE WAY, WE ARE ALMOST DONE, BUT I HAVE TO GIVE YOU KUDOS BECAUSE LAST YEAR YOU PASSED A BILL TO CLEAN UP THOSE SITES.

WELL WE WERE WAITING FOR THE FEDS TO DO IT, AND THEY ARE UNMARKED, MOSTLY ON INDIAN LAND.

>>JEFF: YUP.

>>LORENE: AND THEY ARE RADIOACTIVE.

>>JEFF: YUP.

>>LORENE: AND SO YOU INTRODUCED A BILL WHICH PASSED.

IT SAID, OKAY, FEDS WE ARE NOT WAITING FOR YOU, WE ARE GOING TO GO AND NEUTRALIZE THESE AND ALSO THE ONES THAT WE CAN'T GET TO THEM ALL RIGHT AWAY, BUT WE ARE GOING TO INDICATE THAT THIS IS HAZARDOUS AND THE KIDS SHOULDN'T BUILD A FORT ON THIS PILE OF RADIOACTIVE TAILINGS.

>>JEFF: THAT'S RIGHT.

SO MY FINAL MESSAGE IS NEW MEXICO HAS SUFFERED GREATLY AT THE HANDS OF CONTAMINATION, A LOT AT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WHETHER IT IS AN ABANDONED URANIUM MINES THAT WE DID FOR THE NATIONAL DEFENSE, WHETHER IT IS CHROMIUM PLUME OR WHETHER IT IS PFAS BUILT AT OUR MILITARY BASES.

>>LORENE: FOREVER CHEMICALS.

>>JEFF: WE HAVE TO SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO HELP CLEAN UP THESE SITES IN NEW MEXICO AND WE ARE THE LAND OF ENCHANTMENT, AND WE ARE A WORLD-CLASS PLACE SECOND TO NONE.

WE DON'T HAVE TO BE THE SACRIFICE ZONE IN THE COUNTRY, AND WE ARE NOT.

SO, THAT'S MY MESSAGE.

>>LORENE: AND ON THAT NOTE, WE HAVE RUN OUT OF TIME.

>>JEFF: THANK YOU.

>>LORENE: BUT I AM SO GLAD.

SENATOR JEFF STEINBORN, DEMOCRAT FROM DONA ANA, THE WORK YOU HAVE DONE ON HAZARDOUS AND RADIOACTIVE MATERIALS IS SO IMPORTANT AND THANK YOU FOR COMING AND TELLING US ABOUT IT.

>>JEFF: YOU ARE WELCOME.

THANKS FOR ALWAYS EDUCATING NEW MEXICO ABOUT IT.

>>LORENE: YOU BET, IT IS IMPORTANT.

AND I AM LORENE MILLS, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU, OUR AUDIENCE, FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM