"ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> ERIC: SENATOR KLOBUCHAR WILL JOIN US TO TALK ABOUT THE SENATE HEARINGS ABOUT THE ASSAULT ON THE CAPITOL.

RAMSEY COUNTY ATTORNEY JOHN CHOI WILL DISCUSS THE SIMILARITIES BETWEEN THE CHAUVIN CASE AND THE YANEZ TRIAL AFTER THE KILLING OF PHILANDO CASTILE.

WE'LL REMEMBER THE LATE PETER OSTROUSHKO.

AND MARY LAHAMMER WILL TAL >> Mary: THE UPDATED BUDGET FORECAST NUMBER SET THE STAGE FOR THE REST OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION AS LAWMAKERS AND THE GOVERNOR HAS TO COME TO AGREEMENT ON THE NEXT TWO-YEAR BUDGET.

>> MINNESOTA, THIS IS GOOD NEWS.

>> THAT IS AN AMAZING TURNAROUND.

>> Mary: WE'LL HAVE THE STORY COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

♪♪♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING ELECTRICITY AND RELATED SERVICES TO 28 CO-OPS IN MINNESOTA.

A TOUCHSTONE ENERGY COOPERATIVE.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: MAKING DENTAL CARE POSSIBLE FOR MINNESOTANS IN NEED.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY: A TRIBAL NATION FOCUSED ON COMMUNITY AND COLLABORATION, ESPECIALLY IN TIMES LIKE TODAY.

ENBRIDGE: CONNECTING MINNESOTANS WITH ENERGY FOR OVER 70 YEARS.

MORE AT ENBRIDGE.COM/LINE3US.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

ONE GREATER MINNESOTA REPORTING ON "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE OTTO BREMER TRUST, WHOSE MISSION IS INVESTING IN PEOPLE, PLACES AND OPPORTUNITIES IN THE UPPER MIDWEST.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT COMES FROM THE MINNEAPOLIS FOUNDATION, INSPIRING AND ENGAGING IN ACTION TO REALIZE STRONG, VIBRANT COMMUNITIES.

AND FROM THE BLANDIN FOUNDATION.

>> ERIC: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE'LL TOUCH ON TOPICS NEAR AND FAR TONIGHT.

AND WE START WITH FAR, THE JOINT COMMITTEE HEARINGS IN THE U.S. SENATE THIS WEEK REGARDING THE CAPITOL ASSAULT ON JANUARY 6.

>> CATHY: THE HEARING OPENED WITH A STATEMENT BY SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR, CHAIRWOMAN OF THE SENATE RULES COMMITTEE.

>> WHEN AN ANGRY, VIOLENT MOB STAGED AND INSURRECTION ON JANUARY 6 AND DESECRATED OUR CAPITAL, THE TEMPLE OF OUR DEMOCRACY, IT WAS NOT JUST AN ATTACK ON THE BUILDING, IT WAS AN ATTACK ON OUR REPUBLIC ITSELF.

>> Cathy: SENATOR KLOBUCHAR JOINING US NOW.

>> THANK YOU, IT'S FROM TO BE WITH YOU AGAIN.

>> Cathy: YOU SAID THERE WAS CLEAR AGREEMENT THIS WAS AN INFORMED INSURRECTION.

OBVIOUSLY, SECURITY FORCES WERE NOT READY.

WHO IS THE FAULT OF THAT?

>> LET'S START AT THE BEGINNING, THE START OF THE IMWE WANT HEARING AND THAT WAS PRESIDENT TRUMP INCITING THIS RIOT.

BUT OUR FOCUS WAS ON WHAT WENT WRONG AT THE CAPITOL WITH SECURITY, WITH PLANNING AND THE LIKE, AND THE INSURRECTION, THE REASON I FOCUSED ON THAT FIRST WAS WE HAD AT LEAST ONE MEMBER, REALLY ONLY ONE MEMBER, SENATOR RON JOHNSON OF WISCONSIN WHO WAS -- SEEMED TO BELIEVE THAT THIS WAS NOT ACTUALLY INSECURE RECOLLECTIONISTS THAT CAUSED THIS SO I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO GET ALL THE LAW ENFORCEMENT PEOPLE, INCLUDING THE THREE THAT HAD RESIGNED, THE CAPITAL POLICE CHIEF, THE SERGEANT AT ARMS OF BOTH HOUSES, TO SAY THAT GIVEN WHAT THEY KNOW NOW, THEY KNOW IT WAS A WELL-COORDINATED PLANNED ATTACK, REALLY COORDINATED AND LED BY WHITE WILL SUPREMISTS AND EXTREMIST GROUPS, WHICH THEY ALL SAID YES, THAT'S WHY WE LED WITH THAT.

AND THEN OF COURSE NOT MAJOR PART OF THE HEARING WAS WHAT WENT WRONG WITH SECURITY AT THE CAPITOL AND HOW WE CAN MAKE SURE IT NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

>> Eric, NOW THE D.C. POLICE CHIEF IS WARNING ABOUT POSSIBLE FURTHER TROUBLE DURING THE STATE-OF-THE-UNION ADDRESS.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT?

>> WELL, THEY WILL BE MUCH BETTER PREPARED.

THEY HAVE TO BE, THEY WERE AT THE INAUGURATION.

THERE'S MAJOR SECURITY THERE GOING ON INCLUDING NATIONAL GUARD, FENCING, AND JUST MUCH MORE PREPARATION.

THAT EVENT, THE STATE OF THE UNION IS CONSIDERED A MAJOR NATIONAL SECURITY EVENT, AND IT HAS A DESIGNATION WHICH ALLOWS SECRET SERVICE AND MANY OTHERS TO BE INVOLVED.

THAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED WITH THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE COUNT, GIVEN THAT WE HAD ACCOUNT CURRENT VICE PRESIDENT, MIKE PENCE AT THE TIME, THE FUTURE VICE PRESIDENT, KAMALA HARRIS, AS WELL AS ALL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN THE SAME PLACE.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING ELSE THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE GOING FORWARD.

>> Cathy: GETTING BACK TO THE SECURITY FORCES JUST SEEMINGLY NOT BEING VERY PREPARED, I KNOW THERE'S GOING TO BE ANOTHER HEARING NEXT WEEK AND YOU'LL BE TALKING TO DEFENSE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS.

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO KNOW FROM THEM?

>> A LOT.

THE METROPOLITAN POLICE CHIEF, Mr. CONTI, ACTUALLY LED WITH THIS AND SAID THEY HAD ASKED THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT FOR THE NATIONAL GUARD WHEN THE CRISIS HAD BEGUN AND THERE WAS HOURS OF DELAY, SO THAT'S THE FIRST QUESTION OF HOW THAT HAPPENED.

THE SECOND IS THE F.B.I.

SENT A REPORT THE NIGHT BEFORE WITH SOCIAL MEDIA EVIDENCE THAT SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT WERE COME TO THE CAPITOL SAID THEY WERE BASICALLY GOING TO WAR ON CONGRESS, THEY WERE GOING TO THE CAPITOL WITH THAT PURPOSE AND THEY JUST PUSHED "SEND" ON AN EMAIL.

NOW, THERE'S ALSO OF COURSE FAULT ON THE SIDE OF THE CAPITOL FOR NOT HAVING PROCESSED THAT BUT I'LL HAVE TO ASK THOSE QUESTIONS, AS WELL, WHAT WENT WRONG THERE.

AND THEN FINALLY, WE'LL HAVE OFFICIALS FROM HOMELAND SECURITY, GIVEN THAT THEY RUN THE SECRET SERVICE, GIVEN THAT MIKE PENCE WAS THERE AND SECRET SERVICE ALWAYS PLAN FOR THESE EVENTS, THERE'S JUST ALWAYS A LOT OF PLANNING THAT GOES INTO MAJOR EVENTS AND THAT JUST DIDN'T SEEM TO HAPPEN HERE, AND, AGAIN, WE DID NOT DO A LOT OF FINGER-POINTING AT THE FIRST HEARING AND I THINK PEOPLE WERE SURPRISED AT HOW DIGNIFIED THE HEARING WAS, WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS BECAUSE WE JUST WANTED TO GET TO THE BOTTOM AND IT WAS A BIPARTISAN HEARING FROM BEGINNING TO END, PLANNED WITH MY COLLEAGUE, SENATOR PETERS, SENATOR PORT MAN AND BLUNT.

SO WE WANT TO HAVE THAT CONTINUE INTO THE NEXT HEARING.

>> Eric: THERE'S ALWAYS A BALANCE OF INTEREST IN ALMOST ANYTHING WE DO AND SENATOR BLUNT, YOUR RANKING MEMBER IS SAYING HE'S FEARFUL THAT THE CAPITOL BECOMES AN ARMED FORTRESS.

YOU SHARE THAT OR... >> WE WILL NOT SEE THE EXACT SECURITY WE HAVE THERE NOW GOING INTO THE FUTURE.

WE KNOW THAT, BUT THEY HAVE TO MAKE SOME CHANGES.

WE NEED A BETTER COORDINATED POLICE FORCE.

THEY'RE GOING TO GET A NEW POLICE CHIEF, A NEW SERGEANT AT ARMS, AND THERE'S PLANNING WHEN IT COMES TO THE FENCE AND OF COURSE NO ONE WANTS A FENCE AROUND THE CAPITOL WAY INTO THE FUTURE, AND I DON'T THINK THAT WILL HAPPEN.

A NATIONAL GUARD CAN DRAW DOWN SOME OF THE NATIONAL GUARD, AFTER 9/11, THE NATIONAL GUARD WAS INVOLVED WITH CAPITOL SECURITY FOR TWO YEARS.

MANY CAPITALS AROUND THE WORLD HAVE SOME INVOLVEMENT OF MILITARY.

BUT, AGAIN, YOU DON'T NEED IT AT ALL AT THAT LEVEL, SO WE JUST CAN'T SIMPLY WAVE A WAND AND SAY WE WANT YOU ALL TO GO AWAY.

NO ONE WANTS THAT SECURITY THERE RIGHT NOW BUT EVERYONE KNOWS WE NEED IT.

>> Eric: OKAY.

>> Cathy: SENATOR, ON ANOTHER TOPIC, WILL CONGRESS PASS THE NEXT COVID-RELIEF BILL AND HOW BIG WILL IT BE, DO YOU THINK?

>> JOE BIDEN HAS A GOOD PLAN HERE AND IT'S A PLAN THAT FITS THE CRISIS THAT WE ARE STILL IN.

WHILE MINNESOTA HAS SEEN SOME DRAMATIC DECREASES IN THE NUMBER OF COVID CASES, AND WE'RE SO PROUD OF THE WORK OF THE GOVERNOR AND MANY OTHERS WHO GOT US TO THAT POINT, WE ALSO KNOW THAT IN THE HEALTH CARE WORKERS AND THE CITIZENS WHO HAVE BEEN DOING THEIR BEST TO FOLLOW THE RULES, BUT WE ALSO KNOW THAT WE STILL HAVE AN ECONOMIC CRISIS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND THE VACCINE IS NOT NEARLY TO THE NUMBERS THAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO GET RID OF THIS VIRUS.

SO THE PACKAGE FIRST AND FOREMOST INVOLVES BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR DISTRIBUTING THE VACCINE, ESPECIALLY TO HARD-TO-REACH AREAS.

IT INVOLVES HELP FOR OUR SCHOOLS, IT INVOLVES HELP WITH BROADBAND AND THE LIKE AND I BELIEVE IT'S GOING TO PASS THE HOUSE, OF COURSE.

AND THEN IT'S GOING TO GO TO THE SENATE NEXT WEEK, IT MUST GET DONE BY MARCH 14th BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN THE UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS WEAR OUT AND I THINK WE CAN GET IT DONE IN THE NEXT WEEK.

RIGHT NOW, THE PACKAGE IS WELL OVER A BILLION DOLLARS, 1.9 BILLION DOLLARS, AND AFTER THAT, I THINK YOU'LL SEE SOME MORE WORK DONE ON INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE LIKE.

THESE WERE MAJOR COMMITMENTS THAT JOE BIDEN MADE AND SEVEN OUT OF TEN PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY, INCLUDING A LOT OF REPUBLICANS, FAVOR THIS PACKAGE.

>> Eric: THE INABILITY OF THE SENATE TO CONSIDER THE MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE IS PART OF BUDGET RECONCILIATION, TWO-PART QUESTION THERE.

WHEN DO YOU JOIN CONGRESSWOMAN OMAR FOR THE FIRING OF THE PARLIAMENTARIAN AND NUMBER TWO, DOES THIS REIGNITE FILIBUSTER TALK?

>> NUMBER ONE, THE REASON THAT THE SENATE PARLIAMENTARIAN MADE THAT RULING IS BECAUSE THAT WAS THEIR INTERPRETATION OF THE RULES AND SHE HAS LONG BEEN A STRAIGHT-SHOOTER WHEN IT'S COME TO LOOKING AT THE RULES.

SOMETIMES RULING IN THE FAVOR OF DEMOCRATS, SOMETIMES REPUBLICANS.

I KNOW HER PERSONALLY.

BUT I THINK IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THIS WORK, THEN YOU SHOULD CHANGE THE RULE.

AND I'VE BEEN A LONGTIME BELIEVER IN FILIBUSTER REFORM AND THAT MEANS, TAKING THAT ARCHAIC SYSTEM AND MAKING IT EASIER TO GET THINGS DONE.

THERE'S MANY WAYS YOU CAN DO THIS.

YOU CAN CHANGE THE NUMBER REQUIRED FOR FILIBUSTER.

YOU COULD REQUIRE SENATORS TO ACTUALLY GO TO THE CAPITOL AND SPEAK LIKE IN THE OLD MOVIE GO GOES, AND IF THEY'RE NOT -- LIKE IN THE OLD MOVIES, AND IF THEY'RE HAVE NOT WILLING TO DO THAT FOR THIS MACK OBJECT OF $1.9 TRILLION, IF THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO DO THAT, GO AND SPEAK AND STOP VOTING RIGHTS THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO AND OTHER THINGS WE NEED TO GET DONE, THEN WE'LL BE ABLE TO GET VOTES ON THINGS.

SO I THINK WE NEED TO BRING BACK WHAT WAS THE ORIGINAL INTENTION OF THE FILIBUSTER TO BE USED SPARSELY, AND I THINK WE NEED TO CHANGE IT OR WE'LL NEVER GET THINGS DONE.

>> Eric: ON OUR WAY OUT HERE, SINCE THE '70s, I'VE CALLED YOUR NAME CLOBSHAR, BUT THE CLERK SAYS CHAR.

WHICH ONE IS RIGHT?

>> I'VE ALWAYS SAID I DON'T CARE HOW PEOPLE SAY MY NAME AS LONG AS THEY VOTE FOR ME IN ELECTIONS.

IT CAN BE O.COULD BE SAID BOTH WAYS.

MY DAD, SLOW QUEEN YOU KNOW THAT HE IS, HE SAID KLOBUCHAR, BUT AS YOU MAY KNOW, UP IN NORTHERN MINNESOTA, THERE IS A WHOLE GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT SAYS KLO-BUTCHER.

>> Eric: SO YOU DON'T CARE?

>> DON'T CARE.

NEVER EACH NOTICED.

>> Eric: COME BACK AND SEE YOU.

NICE TO SEE YOU, THANKS.

>> I WOULD LOVE TO COME BACK.

THANK YOU.

>> CATHY: WE NOW TURN OUR ATTENTION STATESIDE.

MINNESOTA'S FEBRUARY BUDGET FORECAST WAS RELEASED THIS AFTERNOON.

THAT'S THE OUTLOOK THAT LAWMAKERS USE FOR SPENDING PLANS.

MARY LAHAMMER EXPLAINS.

>> Mary: THE BUDGET FORECAST TOOK A BIG SWING FROM A DEFICIT TO A $1.6 BILLION SURPLUS, THANKS TO MORE REVENUE AND LESS SPENDING.

>> WE HAVE WEATHERED A TUMULTUOUS YEAR AND ARE WELL AWARE BRIGHTERS DAYS ARE AHEAD.

WHILE THE SUN IS STARTING TO SHINE, WE'RE HARDLY IN THE CLEAR.

>> U.S. OUTLOOK REMAINS VOLATILE AND UNCERTAIN AND DEPENDS ON THE PATH OF THE PANDEMIC.

>> Mary: THE ANTICIPATED BUDGET BALANCE ALSO STEMS FROM AN IMPROVED U.S. ECONOMIC OUTLOOK BOLSTERED BY FEDERAL ACTION SINCE THE LAST FORECAST IN NOVEMBER, THOUGH NOT EVERYONE IS SEEING THE POSITIVE OUTLOOK AS UNEMPLOYMENT CONTINUES TO DISPROPORTIONATELY HIT LOWER-WAGE WORKERS.

>> >> MINNESOTA, THIS IS GOOD NEWS.

IT'S GOOD NEWS THAT OUR FUNDAMENTALS ARE STRONG.

WE ARE FISCALLY DISCIPLINED, AS YOU CAN SEE, AND THERE IS EVERY REASON TO BE OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THE FUTURE.

IT ALSO I THINK GOES TO SHOW THAT THE FALSE CHOICES DURING COVID-19 THAT WERE PUT IN PLAY THAT YOU HAD TO CHOOSE PEOPLE'S LIVES OVER THE ECONOMY OR VICE VERSA ARE SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

>> Mary: DEMOCRATS HAD BEEN CALLING FOR TAX INCREASES FOR PROFITABLE CORPORATIONS AND TOP EARNERS BUT THE IMPROVED FORECAST MAKES THAT EVEN MORE DIFFICULT TO GET THROUGH THE REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED SENATE.

>> THAT IS AN AMAZING TURNAROUND, IT REALLY SPEAKS WELL OF THE FACT THE TAXPAYERS HAVE STILL BEEN PAYING TAXES AND WE NOW HAVE A SURPLUS.

WHAT SHOULD WE DO WITH IT?

WELL, FIRST OF ALL, ALL THOSE SMALL BUSINESSES THAT REALLY STRUGGLED AND WERE GETTING PAYCHECK PROTECTION PROGRAM BENEFITS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DO NOT TAX THEM IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

>> I HOPE THAT WHAT WE SEE FROM TODAY IS THAT THIS PUSH BY GOVERNOR WALZ AND THE DEMOCRATS FOR A BILLION DOLLARS IN TAX HIKES AND THAT WE -- THAT THAT ENDS TODAY.

WE CLEARLY HAVE THE RESOURCES NEEDED TO PASS OUR NEXT BUDGET WITHOUT EVEN TOUCHING THE BUDGET RESERVE.

>> PEOPLE WERE SKEPTICAL ABOUT TAX INCREASES HAPPENING IN THE FIRST PLACE, THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN AT ALL.

THE REAL QUESTION IS WHAT'S THE STATE OF MINNESOTA GOING TO DO WITH THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT IT'S SITTING ON RIGHT NOW.

>> Mary: DESPITE THE SURPLUS FORECASTED, INTEREST GROUPS AREN'T STOPPING THE DEMAND FOR INCREASED TAXES FOR THE RICHEST MINNESOTANS.

I DO NOTICE DEMOCRATS ARE PART OF THIS.

IS THERE ANY EFFORT TO CONNECT OR REACH OUT WITH REPUBLICANS WHO CONTROL THE SENATE AND WHAT ARE YOU HEARING THERE?

>> NO, REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS, DEMOCRAT LEGISLATORS, ALL OF OUR LEGISLATORS ARE CENTERING THE FAMILIES AND SO IF WE ARE TRULY DOING THAT, THE TEST OF THAT HAPPENING IS THAT WE ARE USING OUR COLLECTIVE RESOURCES, WE'RE USING EVERY LEVER, WE'RE MAKING SURE THAT THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN NOT PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE FOR A VERY LONG TIME, WHICH HAVE BEEN TAKING OUT OF OUR COMMUNITIES, IT'S TIME.

>> WHAT WE'VE FOR IS YOUR WON'T DO IS RAISE ANY OF THE TAXES THAT THE GOVERNOR PROPOSED.

>> I DON'T ASK FOR THE TAX HIKE TO BE PUNITIVE OR THAT I LIKE TO DO THAT.

I STILL REMIND PEOPLE AT THIS POINT IN THE PRIVILEGE OF BEING GOVERNOR OF MINNESOTA, I HAVE NOT RAISED TAXES, EVER.

>> Mary: YOU MAY HAVE HEARD A THOUSAND PEOPLE RALLIED ONLINE FOR TAX INCREASES.

ALL REPUBLICANS THEN UNIFIED IN SAYING THIS IS A MOOT POINT.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?

>> WE COULD ALWAYS FIND PEOPLE TO RALLY TO SUPPORT OUR POSITION AND NOT REALLY SWAYED BY THAT.

YOU KNOW, THE THING IS, THE GOVERNMENT IS FLUSH RIGHT NOW.

WE'VE GOT A $.6 BILLION SURPLUS, THAT'S WHAT WE'VE JUST BEEN TOLD.

BUT WE KNOW, WE KNOW THAT OUR SMALL BUSINESSES AND FAMILIES ARE STILL HURTING, AND THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO FOCUS.

TAX INCREASES ARE EXACTLY THE WRONG APPROACH.

>> NOW, DEMOCRACY STARTS, WE'RE THE ONLY STATE IN THE NATION AGAIN, I'M SURE YOU'VE HEARD THIS ONE A LOT, THAT HAS DIVIDED STATE GOVERNMENT.

AND SO WE GET TO DO IS WE GET TO COME TOGETHER, WE GET TO FASHION A BUDGET THAT LOOKS TO THE FUTURE, THAT'S FAIR TO MINNESOTANS, THAT CONTINUES TO INVEST IN THE THINGS THAT BUILD THIS ECONOMY, AND AS A PRIORITY THAT I WILL CONTINUE TO ASK FOR IS, THAT IS FAIR IN HOW WE GO ABOUT IT AND MAKE SURE THAT WE RECOVER FROM NOT ONLY COVID-19 BUT SYSTEMIC INEQUALITIES.

♪♪♪ >> ERIC: FOUR YEARS AGO IN JUNE, A RAMSEY COUNTY JURY ACQUITTED FORMER OFFICER GERONIMO YANEZ IN THE SHOOTING DEATH OF PHILANDO CASTILE.

RAMSEY COUNTY ATTORNEY JOHN CHOI WAS THE ONE WHO BROUGHT CHARGES AGAINST YANEZ.

WE'VE INVITED HIM TO JOIN US TONIGHT TO TALK ABOUT THE SIMILARITIES AND DIFFERENCES IN THE CASES INVOLVING THE DEATHS OF PHILANDO CASTILE AND GEORGE FLOYD.

Mr. COUNTY ATTORNEY, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

HOW DO YOU COMPARE THE TWO CASES?

>> WELL, THERE REALLY -- IT'S A CASE -- BOTH OF THEM ARE OBVIOUSLY CASES INVOLVING A POLICE OFFICER AND THEIR ACTIONS RESULTED IN SOMEBODY'S DEATH, BUT THEY'RE VERY DIFFERENT.

FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THE -- YOU'VE GOT A SITUATION WITH GEORGE FLOYD WHERE HE IS UNARMED AND THERE REALLY IS NO WAY THAT THE ISSUE OF WHETHER OR NOT THE USE OF DEADLY FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE IS REALLY THE ISSUE.

THE ISSUE HERE -- SO BEFORE WE HAD KIND OF A BATTLE OF EXPERTS, THEY'D BE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT OFFICER YANEZ, HIS ACTIONS WERE OUTSIDE OF HIS PRACTICES AND TRAINING AND WHAT WAS REASONABLE FOR AN OFFICER.

IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I THINK THE BIG ISSUE THAT WILL BE PUT BEFORE THE JURY AND THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DETERMINE IS KIND OF WHAT WAS THE CAUSE OF DEATH.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THE DEFENSE ARC THAT IT WAS OTHER FACTORS THAT ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTED TO HIS DEATH, WHETHER IT WAS DRUGS, FEND KNOLL IN THE SYSTEM, HEART FAILURE, SO THAT'S, I THINK, GOING TO BE THE BIG ISSUE, SO YOU'LL REALLY SEE THE AUTOPSY AND OPINIONS OF MEDICAL EXPERTS I THINK BECOME A BIG PART OF WHAT IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE KIND OF DECIDED.

BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, THE SIMILARITIES, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, IT'S ONE OF THESE CASES THAT I THINK IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO GET A CONVICTION ON BECAUSE THERE HASN'T BEEN A LOT OF THESE CASES AROUND THE COUNTRY, AND OF COURSE, JURIES ARE VERY UNPREDICTABLE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> Cathy: LET'S KIND OF DIVE A LITTLE BIT DEEPER INTO THE AUTOPSIES IF WE COULD FOR JUST A MOMENT BECAUSE I'M SLUR IN YOUR CAREER YOU'VE DEALT WITH THIS BEFORE.

THERE WERE TWO AUTOPSIES, ONE BY THE HENNEPIN COUNTY CORONER, THE OTHER ONE BY GEORGE FLOYD'S FAMILY.

WHAT COULD BE SOME OF THE MIND FIELDS WHEN WE START LOOKING AT THOSE -- AT THOSE PIECES OF EVIDENCE?

>> WELL, I THINK THE BIG ISSUE IS JUST THE -- YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT ONE VERSION THAT'S GOING TO MAYBE -- I DON'T WANT TO CHARACTERIZE THE EVIDENCE BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE JURY TO EVALUATE THAT, BUT I THINK THERE WILL BE TESTIMONY THAT WILL BE DRAWN OUT ABOUT CERTAIN THINGS ABOUT KIND OF WHAT ULTIMATELY CAUSED THE DEATH, AND SO THERE IS CERTAINLY GOING TO BE FACTS THAT WOULD SHOW THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF FEND KNOLL IN GEORGE FLOYD'S SYSTEM.

HOWEVER, THERE WILL BE CONFLICTING TESTIMONY PROBABLY FROM AN EXPERT TALKING ABOUT HOW FENTANYL ACTS WHEN SOMEBODY HAS PASSED AWAY AND HOW THAT INTERACTS IN THE BLOODSTREAM.

SO A LOT OF THOSE ISSUES -- ALSO YOU'VE GOT THE ISSUE OF THE UNDERLYING HEALTH CONDITIONS AND ALL OF THAT WILL HAVE TO BE DECIDED BY THE JURY AND OFTENTIMES THE EVIDENCE CAN BE OVERWHELMING FOR A JURY, BECAUSE IT'S COMPLICATED, SO THE KEY PART OF THIS IS FOR THE DEFENSE OR THE PROSECUTION TO BE ABLE TO PRESENT THEIR CASE WITH REAL CLARITY AND FOR PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE SERVING ON A JURY WHO PROBABLY DON'T HAVE NECESSARILY THIS BACKGROUND TO UNDERSTAND IT AND ULTIMATELY TO BE HELPFUL TO THEM AND THEN TO MAKE A DECISION.

SO THAT'S GOING TO BE A BIG ISSUE.

>> Eric:.

>> Eric: IT IS REPORTED THAT CHAUVIN TURNED DOWN A PLEA BARGAIN AGREEMENT IN WHICH HE WAS READY TO PLEAD TO THIRD DEGREE MURDER.

DOES THAT CREATE AN OBSTACLE FOR JURY SELECTION, FOR INSTANCE?

>> I THINK THAT IS ANOTHER PIECE OF THIS, MAKING SURE THAT THE JURORS THAT WILL ULTIMATELY BE SERVING ON THIS PARTICULAR TRIAL, THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE FAIR AND UNBIASED.

NOW, JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE -- YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS CASE, YOU'VE READ ABOUT THIS CASE, AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK THE QUESTION THAT NEEDS TO BE ANSWERED IS, DESPITE THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE SOME KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THIS CASE, CAN YOU BE FAIR AND IMPARTIAL IN YOUR DUTIES AS A JUROR, WILL YOU FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS THAT ARE GIVEN TO YOU ULTIMATELY BY THE JUDGE?

AND IF A JUROR, YOU KNOW, PRESENTS THEMSELVES AS SAYING THEY CAN TRULY DO THAT BASED UPON SOME SCRUTINY, BASED UPON SOME OF THE ANSWERS THAT THEY MAY HAVE GIVEN IN A QUESTIONNAIRE, HOW THEY MAY RESPOND TO QUESTIONS, THAT'S GOING TO BE HOW, YOU KNOW, THE JURY IS ULTIMATELY GOING TO BE PUT TOGETHER.

I THINK ANOTHER THING, TOO, THAT PEOPLE DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND IS THAT IT'S REALLY A PROCESS OF JURY DE-SELECTION.

YOU KNOW, YOU START OUT WITH A RANDOM POOL OF PEOPLE THAT WOULD BE CALLED TO JURY SERVES ON MARCH 8th, AND THEN FROM THERE, THERE IS A SMALLER RANDOM GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT WOULD BE, IN THIS PARTICULAR JURY POOL, AND THEN FROM THERE, DEPENDING ON HOW THEY NUMBER THE JURORS, THEY WILL CALL THEM IN IN A CERTAIN ORDER, AND THEN THE -- BASED UPON THE RULES THAT WILL BE IN PLAY FOR THIS PARTICULAR JURY, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DETERMINE WHO GETS IN AND WHO WOULDN'T.

>> Cathy: I'M CURIOUS, HELP US OUT HERE, WE HAVE A COUPLE MINUTES LEFT.

THOSE THIRD-DEGREE MURDER CHARGES, IT'S PRETTY CONFUSING I THINK FOR PEOPLE AND CLEARLY THERE IS A CONFLICT IN THE CHAUVIN TRIAL.

CAN YOU PAIRS THAT FOR US?

>> RIGHT.

SO, RIGHT NOW, THE STATUS OF THE THIRD DEGREE MURDER CHARGE IS IN THE CASE IS THAT IT'S NOT IN THE CASE, JUDGE CAHILL HAS NOT ALLOWED THIRD DEGREE MURDER TO BE ONE OF THE APPLICABLE CHARGES AND THE RATIONALE THERE IS THAT MANY LEGAL EXPERTS WOULD BELIEVE THAT THIRD DEGREE MURDER IS NOT APPLICABLE IN A SITUATION WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE SPECIFIC PERSON.

THE WAY THAT SOME EXPERTS, LEGAL EXPERTS HAVE VIEWED THIRD DEGREE MURDER IS THAT THE HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION WHERE SOMEBODY IN AN IMPLEMENTLY DANGEROUS WAY WOULD MAYBE SHOOT AT LIKE A MOVING TRAIN FROM FAR AWAY, AND IT RESULTS IN THE DEATH OF SOMEONE.

NOW, THAT IS -- THAT'S UP FOR FOR DEBATE.

I MEAN, ACTUALLY, THE MINNESOTA COURT OF APPEALS IN THE NOOR CASE ACTUALLY ALLOWED FOR THAT CASE OR THAT CHARGE TO BE SUSTAINED.

NOW, THAT WILL BE DECIDED BY THE SUPREME COURT.

BUT THIS THIRD DEGREE MURDER CHARGE RIGHT NOW IS NOT IN FOR CONSIDERATION, SO I GUESS THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME LEGAL MANUEVERING THAT WILL HAPPEN.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE HAS APPEALED JUDGE CAHILL'S ORDER AND SO THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE A DECISION.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL HAPPEN BEFORE MARCH 8th OR NOT SO ALL OF THIS LEGAL MANUEVERING WILL ALSO BE A FACTOR BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE TWO CHARGES THAT ARE IN PLAY ARE SECOND DEGREE INTENTIONAL MURDER AND SECOND DEGREE MANSLAUGHTER.

SO THOSE ARE VERY DIFFERENT TYPES OF THEORIES AND SO YOU'VE GOT TWO CHARGES THERE AND I THINK PROSECUTION IS GOING TO HAVE TO PRESENT BOTH THEORIES, AND THEN ULTIMATELY THE JURY IS GOING TO HAVE TO DECIDE THAT.

NOW, IF THEY HAD THE THIRD DEGREE MURDER, INTERESTINGLY, FROM THE -- ALTHOUGH THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THINKING ABOUT THE SEVERITY OF THE OFFENSE, IN TERMS OF PUNISHMENT, THE WAY THAT IT PLAYS OUT IN THE SENTENCING GUIDELINES IS THAT THIRD DEGREE MURDER IS SOMEWHERE IN-BETWEEN SECOND DEGREE MANSLAUGHTER AND SECOND-DEGREE INTENTIONAL MURDER.

>> Eric: RAMSEY COUNTY COUNTY ATTORNEY JOHN CHOI, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

THANKS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> ERIC: MINNESOTANS LEARNED THIS WEEK THAT FAMED MUSICIAN AND COMPOSER PETER OUSTROSHKO DIED OF HEART FAILURE AT THE AGE OF 67.

OSTROUSHKO WAS WELL KNOWN TO PUBLIC RADIO AND TELEVISION AUDIENCES, AND WE'LL SHARE SOME CLIPS THIS EVENING FROM HIS MANY APPEARANCES OVER THE YEARS ON PBS.

AS WE PREPARE FOR OUR NEXT GUEST, WE INVITE YOU TO LISTEN TO THIS PERFORMANCE ON TPT'S MINNESOTA ORIGINAL PROGRAM FROM 2010.

♪ VIOLIN MUSIC ♪ ♪ VIOLIN PLAYING ♪♪♪ ♪ GUITAR AND VIOLIN ♪ 4 WILL ♪ GUITAR AND VIOLIN ♪ >> CATHY: MOST TOURISTS VISIT THE NORTH SHORE DURING THE WARM MONTHS BUT THE AREA IS ALSO STUNNING WHEN FROZEN AND FRIGID.

IN UPCOMING WEEKS, SEVERAL NORTH SHORE PHOTOGRAPHERS WILL SHARE THEIR FAVORITE WINTERTIME PHOTOS.

OUR VIRTUAL TRAVEL TOUR STARTS WITH CHUCK OLSEN, LONGTIME MEDIA GURU FROM THE TWIN CITIES WHO MOVED TO TOFTE LAST FALL AND QUICKLY PUT HIS CAMERA TO WORK.

IN FULL DISCLOSURE, CHUCK IS A FORMER TWIN CITIES PBS COLLEAGUE OF OURS.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

YOU LOOK GREAT.

>> THANK YOU.

GOOD TO SEE YOU, CATHY.

>> I TELL YOU, TOFTE IS WOULD HAVE BEEN OF MY FAVORITE PLACES.

YOU DECIDED YOU CITY KID TO GO UP THERE.

WHAT WAS THE ALLURE?

>> WHY DID I MOVE TO PARADISE?

[Laughter] WELL, YOU KNOW, WE WERE LIVING IN A LITTLE 120-YEAR-OLD HOUSE THAT WAS FALLING APART.

MINNEAPOLIS IS MY FAVORITE CITY ON THE PLANET, NORTHEAST MINNEAPOLIS IS MY FAVORITE NAKED ON THE PLANET BUT ONCE WE WERE BOTH WORKING AT HOME WITH COVID, IT BECAME VERY CRAMPED AND THE TIMING WAS JUST RIGHT FOR US TO MAKE THE MOVE AND WE GOT REALLY LUCKY TO BE ABLE TO MOVE UP HERE TO TOFTE.

>> Cathy: SO YOU HAD THE GREAT GOOD FORTUNE OF GETTING TO SEE THE BIG LAKE AND ONE OF MY FAVORITE THINGS, OF COURSE, SUNRISE OVER LAKE SUPERIOR IS ALWAYS GREAT.

SO LET'S SEE THE PHOTO THAT YOU TOOK AND TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

>> YEAH, SO -- INTERESTING THING ABOUT THIS SUNRISE IS IT DOES NOT SUBSCRIBE TO ANY CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

[Laughter] IT IS NOT AWARE OF THE NEWS, IT'S JUST THE SERENE, CALM SCENE, YOU CAN ALMOST FEEL THE WARMTH ON YOUR FACE.

YOU CAN TELL IT'S BEFORE WINTER BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A LINE OF CLOUDS OR FOG ABOVE THE LAKE, AND THIS IS THE KIND OF THING THAT I LIKE TO PUT OUT THERE AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE, LIKE A LITTLE MENTAL HEALTH BREAK, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY BEING THERE IN PERSON, YOU FEEL CALM AND INSPIRED AND MY HOPE IS THAT DROPPING PHOTOS LIKE THIS CONSTANTLY INTO THE SOCIAL MEDIA STREAMS, YOU KNOW, GIVES PEOPLE A LITTLE BIT OF A MENTAL HEALTH BREAK AND TRYING TO BASICALLY SHARE IN THE BOUNTY THAT WE HAVE UP HERE.

>> Cathy: AND OF COURSE SPEAKING OF BOUNTY, I MEAN YOU'RE JUST -- YOUR PICTURES OF THE BIRDS AND ANIMALS ALONG THE SHORE ARE GORGEOUS, THIS IS A LITTLE CHICKADEE.

>> YEAH, AND TOFTE IS ENTIRELY WITHIN SUPERIOR NATIONAL FOREST WHICH IS AN INCREDIBLE BIRD MIGRATION CORRIDOR.

WE'VE HAD VARIED THRUSHES AND SNOW FUNDINGS AND ALL KIND OF AMAZING THINGS AT OUR FEEDER BUT GUESS WHAT, THEY'RE ALL GONE NOW.

BUT WHO IS STILL HERE?

THE CHICKADEE, THE BOLD, ADORABLE CHICKADEE.

THEY ACTUALLY LOWER THAT I REMEMBER BODY TEMPERATURE BY AS MUCH AS 20 DEGREES IN THE NIGHT IN THE WINTER, AS SORT OF LIKE A NEAR HIBERNATION, SO, YEAH, THEY'RE -- I HAD TO GO WITH THE CHICKADEE BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST AMAZING.

>> Eric: CHUCK, YOU EVER THE SUNRISE WE SAW, NOW YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING AT DUSK.

THE VARIOUS LIGHTING TIMES OF DAY MUST GIVE YOU QUITE A BIT OF A PALLET TO WORK WITH, HUH?

>> IT SURE DOES, AND I'M LEARNING THAT -- THIS WAS JUST AFTER SUNSET WHICH I'M LEARNING IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE TIMES TO TAKE PHOTOS BECAUSE THINGS ARE A LITTLE MORE MUTED AND SUBDUED BUT JUST BEAUTIFUL.

ALSO A LITTLE BIT DARKER WHICH MEANS I CAN GET AWAY WITH TAKING A LITTLE BIT LONGER EXPOSURE WHICH IS WHAT GIVES THE ROCKS IN THE FOREGROUND THE KIND OF MISS TEE FEEL FROM THE WAVES CRASHING OVER A LONG EXPOSURE.

>> Cathy: OF COURSE, MANY PEOPLE LOVE ARTIST POINT.

TALK ABOUT THIS.

>> YEAH, SO SOMEBODY COMMENTED THAT IF YOU TOLD THEM THIS WAS FROM ANOTHER PLANET, THEY WOULD BELIEVE YOU.

BUT, NO, THIS IS NOT A FROZEN MOON OF JUPITER, THIS IS JUST ARTIST'S POINT, WHICH IS GRAND MARAIS AND ARTIST'S POINT, IT'S DIFFERENT EVERY DAY.

IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MOTIVATES ME TO PUT ON MY WINTER BOOTS AND COOL AND GO OUT AND SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE LAKE BECAUSE EVERY DAY IT CHANGES QUITE A BIT.

IT'S EXCITING TO SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT KIND OF ICE FORMATIONS ARE GOING TO BE FORMING, HOW IS THE LIGHT GOING TO DANCE AND PLAY ON THE WATER AND THE ICE.

IT'S-IN CONSTANT FLUX AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, PHOTOGRAPHER'S DREAM.

>> Cathy: NICE THAT YOU TURNED YOUR CAMERA IN THE OTHER DIRECTION.

>> THAT'S EXACTLY IT.

THIS IS FACING TO THE RIGHT FROM RIGHT WHERE I WAS.

THIS IS THE SUNSET, THAT FAMOUS LIGHTHOUSE IN THE GRAND MARAIS HARBOR, THE BEAUTIFUL SILHOUETTE OF THE SAW TOOT MOUNTAINS THERE.

SOMEONE SAID THE SUN IS SETTING OVER EAGLE MOUNTAIN SPECIFICALLY IN THIS TO THE IS TO AND YOU HAVE ALL THE ICE IN THE HARBOR IN THE FOREGROUND WHICH, YOU KNOW, AGAIN IT'S DIFFERENT EVERY TIME.

AND SUNSET IN GRAND MARAIS IS -- WINTER IS KIND OF -- YOU HAVE TO BE IN GRAND MARAIS TO SEE THE SUNSET BECAUSE IT TENDS TO BE BEHIND YOU ANYPLACE ELSE IN THE NORTH SHORE SO IT'S A REAL SUNSET HOT SPOT.

>> Eric: HERE'S HOLLOW ROCK, WHAT KIND OF EQUIPMENT ARE YOU USING?

FOR THIS STUFF?

>> YEAH, IT'S ACTUALLY THE SAME CAMERA I'M USING FOR OUR ZOOM MEETING RIGHT NOW, IT'S JUST A NICE DSLR CAMERA WITH NICE LENSES.

HOLLOW ROCK IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK EVERY NORTH SHORE PHOTOGRAPHER TRIES TO CAPTURE, IT'S JUST AN AMAZING PLACE ON THE GRAND PORTAGE RESERVATION.

THIS IS MY FIRST TIME SEEING IT IN WINTER AND IT'S JUST BECOMES LIKE KIND OF A PALACE OF ICE AND HERE WE -- I GOT TO GO INSIDE.

THE LAKE FROZE ENOUGH FOR ME TO SCOOT OUT THERE AND THIS IS JUST WITH PLY iPHONE BUT YOU CAN SEE JUST AN INCREDIBLE KIND OF OTHER WORLDLY -- LOOKS LIKE A "LORD OF THE RINGS" SCENE OR SOMETHING WITH ALL THE ICE SICK ELSE.

>> Cathy: OKAY, THE MOST PHOTOGRAPHED PLACE IN THE STATE IS SPLIT ROCK, I THINK, SO WHAT MAKES -- WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHT ABOUT TRYING TO PHOTOGRAPH SUCH AN ICONIC SITE?

>> IT'S INTIMIDATING BECAUSE SO MANY HAVE CAPTURED IT SO WELL BEFORE THAT YOU MIGHT THINK, OH, WELL, WHAT'S THE POINT OF ME TRYING TO CAPTURE THIS?

BUT LIKE I WAS SAYING BEFORE, THIS PARTICULAR MOMENT HAS THESE CLOUDS HANGING AND IT'S AFTER DUSK.

I ACTUALLY CONSIDERED THIS PHOTO A FAILURE INITIALLY BECAUSE THE SUNLIGHT WAS ACTUALLY HITTING JUST THE LIGHTHOUSE LIKE A MINUTE BEFORE THIS BY THE TIME I GOT MY CAMERA OUT, IT HAD CHANGED AND I WAS LIKE, OH, BLAST.

BUT I CAPTURED IT ANYWAYS AND POSTED IT AND PEOPLE JUST REALLY RESPONDED SO WELL TO IT AND IT'S BECOME ONE OF MY NEW FAVORITES.

MAYBE PROBABLY BECAUSE IT IS KIND OF A DIFFERENT MOOD AND A DIFFERENT TAKE ON IT.

>> Cathy: I HAVE NEVER BEEN TO BLACK BEACH ISLAND.

TELL ME ABOUT THIS PHOTOGRAPH.

>> RIGHT.

AND I BELIEVE THIS WAS ONE THAT BRENDAN, THE ALMANAC PRODUCER LIKED AND COMMENTED ON, SO YOU KNOW WE HAVE TO KEEP HIM HAPPY.

SO THIS WAS TAKEN FROM BLACK BEACH AND IT REMINDS ME OF EYER'S ROCK IN AUSTRALIA WHICH IS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DESERT AND THIS IS IN THE MIDDLE OF A FRESH WATER SEA.

I WILL SAY, I DON'T KNOW, DO YOU KNOW THE HISTORY OF THAT BLACK BEACH IN SILVER BAY?

THERE WAS A LANDMARK CASE THAT THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY BROUGHT AGAINST THE NOW DEFUNCT TACONITE MINING COMPANY, THEY WERE DUMPING TONS OF SLUDGE INTO THE HARBOR THERE AND TODAY ITS EADS -- TODAY IT'S A BEAUTIFUL PARK AND CAMPGROUND SO I -- YOU KNOW, I LIKE TO THINK ONE OF THE REASONS I GO OUT AND CAPTURE THESE PRISTINE ENVIRONMENTS, TO ME THAT GOES HAND IN HAND WITH THE NEED TO PRESERVE THESE PRISTINE ENVIRONMENTS SO I THINK THERE IS A LESSON FOR US TODAY IN KEEPING UP OUR NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTS AND PLACES CLEAN FOR GENERATIONS TO COME.

>> Eric: THANKS, CHUCK.

FANTASTIC.

>> Cathy: IT WAS FUN.

GREAT, GREAT PICTURES.

BEST OF LUCK.

>> >> GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> Eric: THANKS.

♪♪♪ >> IF YOU MISSED THE RECENT POLAR VORTEX, NOT TO WORRY, WE'VE COMPILED ALL THE BEST COLD WEATHER SCIENCE FOR YOUR ENJOYMENT IN A SEGMENT THAT WE CALL FROZEN FEATS.

THIS IS THE MUG OF BOWLING WATER.

YOU JUST... [SILENCE] I THINK THAT WAS MAYBE NOT WARM ENOUGH.

YOU WOULDN'T NORMALLY THINK THAT AN EGG COULD FREEZE SOLID -- OH, THAT ONE IS HARD BOILED.

COULD YOU GO GET ME A NOT COOKED EGG?

THANK YOU, WE'LL JUST TRY THIS ONE ONE MORE TIME.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THAT ONE IS NOT WORKING.

WHOA, WHOA.

GOT SOME ICE IN THE ELECTRIC THERE.

OKAY, IT APPEARS THE MUG IS FROZEN TO MY GLOVE.

THAT BELONGED TO MY MOTHER-IN-LAW.

SHOOT.

IT APPEARS MY FOOT HAS FROZEN TO THE GROUND.

PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE DUMPED ALL THAT WATER ON IT.

OKAY.

I HAVE RECOVERED MY BOOT.

THAT'S EXCEPTIONALLY COLD.

THE THING IS I'M JUST EXPERIENCING A LOT OF PAIN IN MY FOOT.

I'M GOING TO END THIS ONE.

YOUR NOSE REALLY RUNS UNDER THIS THING.

♪♪♪ >> ERIC: THE HAZELDEN BETTY FORD FOUNDATION NAMED A NEW CEO THIS WEEK.

DR. JOSEPH LEE HAS WORKED FOR HAZELDEN FOR MORE THAN A DECADE.

HE IS THE COMPANY'S YOUNGEST EVER CEO, THE FIRST PHYSICIAN TO LEAD THE ORGANIZATION, AND ITS FIRST LEADER OF COLOR.

A REMINDER THAT HAZELDEN BETTY FORD IS THE NATION'S LARGEST NON-PROFIT ADDICTION SERVICES PROVIDER.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM, DR. LEE.

JUST TELL US ABOUT YOUR FACILITY AND COVID, WHAT'S IT BEEN LIKE?

>> WELL, THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

IT'S A GREAT HONOR TO BE THE FUTURE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF SUCH A GREAT AND TRUSTED LEGACY.

YOU KNOW, COVID-19 HAS BEEN TOUGH FOR OUR ORGANIZATION.

JUST LIKE IN SOCIETY, COVID-19, THE PANDEMIC HAS AFFECTED PEOPLE DISPROPORTIONATELY, HAS AFFECTED SYSTEMS DISPROPORTIONATELY AND IN THE MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTION ARENA, WE CERTAINLY FELT IT.

AND IT AMPLIFIED MANY OF THE STIGMAS AND TRUTHS WE KNEW ABOUT SOME OF THE INEQUITIES IN OUR HEALTH CARE MODEL, AND WE REALLY HAD TO SCRATCH AND PULL TOGETHER RESOURCES, PARTNER WITH SOME GREAT TESTIMONIES WHO WERE BENEFACTORS TO US, AND WE DID IT.

WE WERE ABLE TO KEEP PEOPLE SAFE AND IN THE ENDS, OUR STAFF, THEY'RE STEELED, THEY SHOWED A LOT OF COURAGE AND WE WERE ABLE TO PROVIDE SERVICES, KNOWING THAT PEOPLE NEEDED US MORE THAN EVER BEFORE.

>> Cathy: YOU ARE KNOWN FOR INPATIENT THERAPY.

HOW HAS THE PANDEMIC AFFECTED THAT METHOD?

>> WELL, THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT WHILE WE'RE KNOWN FOR INPATIENT RESIDENTIAL CARE, WE HAVE A FULL CONTINUUM, EVERYTHING FROM PREVENTION SERVICES TO FAMILY SERVICES, AND SO WE HAD BEEN DEVELOPING TELEHEALTH APPS AND SERVICES, EVEN PRIOR TO COVID AND WE JUST LENDS ENDED UP LAUNCHING IT EARLY.

WE MOVED THOUSANDS OF PATIENTS TO TELEHEALTH, ITS I'D CALLED RECOVERY GO.

IT WAS A TREMENDOUS SUCCESS, WE CAN DO BOTH INDIVIDUAL, FAMILY AND GROUP THERAPY THROUGH THAT PLATFORM AND THAT'S JUST THE START.

WE'RE GOING TO OFFER MORE TELEHEALTH-TYPE PROGRAMS TO OTHER PEOPLE AND THE JOY OF THAT IS THAT PEOPLE CAN JUST ROLL OUT OF BED, GET ON THE SOFA WITH A BOIL OF CEREAL AND TALK TO THEIR THERAPIST AND IT WAS AWESOME.

>> Eric: IS THERE SOMEWHAT OF AN INTERSEX BETWEEN THE MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES THAT WE'VE HEARD ABOUT BECAUSE OF COVID AND THEN THE ADDED BURDEN OF ADDICTION?

DO THOSE COME TOGETHER AT SOME POINT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

EVEN PRIOR TO THE VIRAL PANDEMIC, WE HAD A CRISIS IN THE MENTAL HEALTH ARENA AND WITH THE OPIOID CRISIS, YOU HEARD ABOUT ALL THE STATISTICS WITH SUICIDES AND OVERDOSES AND ALL THIS JUST POURED GASOLINE ON THE FIRE AND MADE IT WORSE.

LIKE I SAID, PEOPLE WERE AAFFECTED DISPROPORTIONATELY.

IT WAS HARD FOR PEOPLE TO GET HELP AND THEY FELL THROUGH THE CRACKS.

AS A STATUS QUO OF SOCIETY THAT WE CAN'T STAND FOR ANYMORE, IS THAT MANY PEOPLE WITH MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTION ISSUES GET STREETED LIKE SECOND-CLASS CITIZENS WITH A SECOND-CLASSISMNESS.

THAT WAS REFLECTED IN COVID AND WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

>> Cathy: I'M WONDERING, WHAT THINGS START TO GET BACK TO SOME SEMBLANCE OF NORMAL, WHATEVER THAT'S GOING TO BE, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING YOU MIGHT SEE MAYBE EVEN A YEAR FROM NOW WITH FOLKS WITH ADDICTION PROBLEMS AND PTSD?

WHAT -- HOW BIG OF A MESS WILL WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH, SAY, IN A YEAR FROM NOW?

>> YOU KNOW, I ACTUALLY SEE SOME FALL-OUTS.

THERE IS AN ECONOMIC FALL-OUT THAT WILL FOLLOW THE VIRAL FALL-OUT AND PEOPLE HAVE LOTS OF NEED, BUT THERE WILL BE ACCESS ISSUES.

BUT OVERALL, I SEE LOTS OF SILVER LINING, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THIS PANDEMIC, WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF ORGANIZATIONS PULL TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, HEALTH PARTNERS, A LARGE HEALTH SYSTEM IN THE TWIN CITIES HELPED GET MANY OF OUR EMPLOYEES VACCINATED, ACTUALLY, SO WE SAW PEOPLE COMING TOGETHER.

AND WHAT THIS IS A SIDE OF IS A SEED OF EMPATHY.

I THINK FOR THE FIRST TIME IN AMERICA, THE AVERAGE AMERICAN CITIZEN CAN UNDERSTAND THE DESPAIR AND LONELINESS THAT LEADS TO SUFFERING FOR MANY, MANY AMERICANS WITH MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTION ISSUES.

AND IF WE CAN CAPITALIZE ON THAT, CAPITALIZE ON HOW IMPORTANT IT IS FOR PEOPLE TO CONNECT WITH EACH OTHER, THAT PEOPLE HEAL TOGETHER, THEN I THINK UNDER THAT BANNER, WE CAN SET POLICIES, CONTINUE TO LOSEN REGULATIONS AND PARTNER WITH EACH OTHER TO OVERCOME THE DISEASE OF ADDICTION, WHENEVER POSSIBLE, AND TO LOWER STIGMA.

>> Cathy: YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THIS COUNTRY IS FACING A HUGE OPIOID EPIDEMIC AND I'M CURIOUS BECAUSE THIS IS GOING TO BE FRONT AND CENTER AT THE MINNESOTA LEGISLATURE, WHAT'S YOUR VIEW OF LEGALIZING MARIJUANA?

>> WELL, THERE ARE MANY FORMS OF LEGALIZATION AND DECRIMINALIZATION, BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

AND SO INTERESTINGLY, WE ARE NOT ANTI-DRUGS, WE DON'T COME AT IT FROM A MORAL ANGLE.

WHAT WE LOOK AT IT FROM IS FROM A POPULATION STUDY STANDPOINT.

WE ARE FOR THE SIGNIFICANT MINORITY OF PEOPLE WHO STRUGGLE WITH SUBSTANCE-RELATED ISSUES.

10% OF AMERICANS DRINK 50% OF THE ALCOHOL IN THE COUNTRY, AND WHAT THAT TELLS YOU BY EXAMPLE IS A SMALL BUT SIGNIFICANT MINORITY OF PEOPLE GET AFFECTED BY SUBSTANCES DIFFERENTLY THAN OTHERS AND IT CREATES A PREDATORY KIND OF ECONOMY THAT PREYS UPON THOSE VULNERABLE INDIVIDUALS FOR PROFIT.

AND THAT GOES THE SAME FOR GAMBLING AND FOR MARIJUANA AND FOR ALCOHOL.

AND SO WE ARE WARY OF SOME OF THE CAPITALISTIC FORCES THAT CAN PREY UPON PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE VULNERABLE, MORE SO THAN ANY KIND OF MORALISTIC STANCE ON A SUBSTANCE.

>> Eric: DOCTOR, CONGRATULATIONS.

APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TONIGHT.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Eric: YOU BET.

♪♪♪ >> Mary: A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW YOUR NAME FROM THE METE METE MOVEMENT.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR JOURNEY FROM THAT, YOU SPOKE UP AND YOU SPOKE UP AGAINST A FELLOW DEMOCRAT.

THAT'S NOT EASY TO DO WITHIN YOUR PARTY.

>> I LEARNED THAT WE STILL HAVE DEEPLY ROOTED MISOGYNY IN OUR POLITICAL LANDSCAPE IN SORT OF OUR SOCIETY AS A WHOLE.

BUT I DON'T FOR A MINUTE REGRET IT.

I PAID A BIG PRICE AND IT WAS WORTH IT BECAUSE IT WAS AN IMPORTANT CONVERSATION TO HAVE AND THE CONVERSATIONS THAT I'VE HAD WITH DOZENS OF WOMEN SINCE THEN HAVE REALLY SOLIDIFIED FOR ME THAT THIS IS AN ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY CONVERSATION THAT WE NEED TO HAVE.

>> CATHY: NOW THAT THE STATE HAS A BETTER GUESS AS TO HOW MUCH MONEY LAWMAKERS HAVE TO SPEND, LET'S HAVE A HEARTY DEBATE WHERE THOSE DOLLARS SHOULD GO.

HERE TO DO THAT, REPUBLICAN LEGISLATIVE LOBBYIST BRIAN MCDANIEL, AND DFL LOYALIST JAVIER MORILLO.

JUST TO ADD A SHAMELESS PLUG, YOU CAN HEAR BRIAN AND JAVIER ON THE POPULAR PODCAST, "WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING."

HOW ARE YOU GUYS DOING?

>> DOING GREAT.

>> Cathy: GOOD, GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.

SO, BRIAN, A LITTLE FISCAL WHIPLASH AT THE CAPITOL, I GUESS YOU COULD CALL IT, WITH MOVING FROM A $1.3 BILLION DEFICIT TO A PROJECTED $1.6 BILLION SURPLUS.

ARE WE TO ASSUME, THEN, THAT TAX INCREASES ARE OFF THE TABLE?

>> CATHY, I WAS TOLD THERE WOULD BE NO MATH.

[Laughter] YEAH, NO, I THINK TAXES ALWAYS KIND OF WERE OFF THE TABLE.

LARGELY EVEN WITH A DEFICIT THAT WAS PROJECTED, IT WAS, YOU KNOW, GOING TO BE ABLE TO BE HANDLED WITH BUDGET RESERVES AND, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN COST-SHIFTS AND OTHER THINGS.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THE POLITICAL WILL WAS HONESTLY THERE FROM EITHER SIDE OF THE AISLE TO SIGNIFICANTLY RAISE TAXES.

I THINK WITH THE NEW FORECAST, THE ODDS OF THOSE TAXES BEING RAISED IN ANY SIGNIFICANT WAY ARE PROBABLY ZERO, AND I THINK THAT THAT PROBABLY MAKES SENSE, THOUGH A LOT OF THE MONEY THAT COMPRISES THE NEW SURPLUS IS ONE-TIME MONEY SO WE SHOULDN'T BE PLANNING ON ANY SPENDING SPREES, EITHER.

>> Cathy: JAVIER, THE GOVERNOR CLEARLY IS STILL INTERESTED IN RAISING TAXES ON THE HIGHEST EARNERS.

>> WELL, I THINK -- ACTUALLY BRIAN POINTED TO THE CONTRADICTION THAT WE HAVE HERE, RIGHT?

IS THAT ON THE ONE HAND, PEOPLE WILL SAY, WELL, IT'S ONE-TIME MONEY SO WE SHOULDN'T BE THINKING ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF SPENDING, BUT THEN ALSO THAT THIS BUDGET SURPLUS MEANS WE SHOULDN'T ADD REVENUE.

THE REALITY IS THAT OUR HIGHEST INCOME EARNERS ARE NOT PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS STRUCTURALLY PROBLEMATIC IN OUR STATE, AND THAT SHOULD BE FIXED.

AND THE LONG-TERM PROSPECTS FOR US COPING OUT OF THIS ECONOMIC AND HEALTH CRISIS THAT WE'VE BEEN IN ARE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, NECESSITATE INVESTMENTS AND OUR REINFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENTS AND HEALTH AND IN COMMUNITY.

AND SO I THINK THE GOVERNOR'S RIGHT TO MAINTAIN HIS POSITION.

I MEAN, THE POLITICAL REALITY OBVIOUSLY IS, YES, THAT REPUBLICANS WILL BE AGAINST REVENUE WHEN IT'S -- WHEN THERE ARE DEFICITS, THAT'S THE REASON TO BE AGAINST REVENUE AND WHEN THERE ARE SURPLUSES, NAYS THE REASON TO BE BEGINS REVENUE.

THAT'S NOT A REASON FOR DEMOCRATS TO CHANGE THEIR POSITION BECAUSE THE REALITY IS THAT WE -- THAT THE PROGRAMS AND SPECIALLY THE INVESTMENTS THAT MINNESOTA NEEDS, IT JUST NEEDS.

>> Eric: BRIAN, HOW ABOUT SOME JESSIE CHECKS OUT OF THIS, GET THE MONEY IN THE HANDS OF PEOPLE THAT WOULD SPENDS IT RIGHT AWAY?

IT'S ONE-TIME MONEY.

>> WITH IT BEING, YOU KNOW, ONE-TIME MONEY, I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL THAT WE'RE KEEPING ENOUGH ON THE BOTTOM LINE FOR A RAINY DAY, BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN, YOU KNOW, SOME DAYS IT RAINS AND, YOU KNOW, THE FUTURE IS LOOKING UP RIGHT NOW WITH THE PANDEMIC AND WITH THE ECONOMY BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, TOMORROW CAN BRING SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, A NEW PAN DID HE MEAN, A NEW STRAIN, MORE SMUTDOWN OF BUSINESSES.

I THINK THAT THE MONEY WE DO HAVE, THOUGH, CERTAINLY WE SHOULD BE TRYING TO TARGET NOT NECESSARILY AS A GIVE-BACK TO ALL MINNESOTANS, THOUGH LET'S NEVER FORGET IT'S NOT THE GOVERNOR'S MONEY, IT'S THE PEOPLE'S MONEY BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT HAVE DEFINITELY BEEN DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTED BY THE SHUTDOWN OF BUSINESSES, BARS, RESTAURANTS, THEATERS, THINGS LIKE THAT, AND I THINK THAT ANY SURPLUS MONIES CERTAINLY SHOULD BE TARGETED TOWARDS THOSE PEOPLE FIRST.

>> Eric: SAY, JAVIER, WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE GOVERNOR WANTS TO SPENDS ON EDUCATION AND THE DEMANDS OF THE UNMEET NEEDS FOLKS, AND NOW A BUDGET SURPLUS, HE'S GOING TO BE UNDER A LOT OF PRESSURE, ISN'T HE, TO DO AS MUCH SPENDING AS HE CAN AND I WONDER IF HE STILL NEEDS THAT TAX INCREASE TO PAY FOR THOSE PRIORITIES?

>> WELL, SO THE PRESSURE IS NOT FROM, YOU KNOW, SUPPORTERS OR -- THE PRESSURE IS FROM THE REALITY THAT THE PANDEMIC HAS HAD A REALLY SERIOUS IMPACT ON OUR SOCIETY AND IN PARTICULAR, ON THE HEALTH OF THE VERY SAME COMMUNITIES THAT WE TALK ABOUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITY GAPS THAT WE HAVE IN OUR STATE.

WE'RE ONE OF THE MOST EMBARRASSING AND THE WORST DISPARITIES BETWEEN WHITE STUDENTS AND STUDENTS OF COLOR IN OUR STATE THAN ANY OTHER STATE, AND THAT IS EMBARRASSING AND THAT IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO FIX.

IT'S UNMINNESOTAN, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE PRIDE WE TAKE IN OUR STATE AND THAT'S WHY WE ACTUALLY NEED TO INVEST IN EDUCATION AND THAT'S WHY THIS QUESTION OF REVENUE IS NOT SIMPLY ABOUT WHETHER -- LIKE THE SURPLUS OR NOT, WE JUST NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT IS IT THAT THE STATE ACTUALLY NEEDS TO THRIVE BECAUSE THESE ARE NOT -- THIS IS NOT A FRIVOLOUS EXPENDITURE, THESE ARE THE WORKERS OF THE FUTURE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

AND IF WE DO NOT HAVE A WELL-EDUCATED AND TRAINED WORKFORCE, OUR STATE WILL SUFFER IN YEARS TO COME.

THIS IS AN INVESTMENT IN OUR FUTURE.

>> Cathy: BRIAN, WANT TO QUICK COMMENT BEFORE WE GO ON TO SOMETHING ELSE?

>> YEAH, I THINK JAVIER AND I PROBABLY AGREE ON THIS MORE THAN MOST ITEMS, BUT I DO THINK THAT IT'S WRONG TO -- IT'S NEVER WRONG TO INVEST IN EDUCATION BUT IT'S NOT RIGHT IN ORDER TO JUST KEEP PUMPING MONEY INTO SYSTEMS THAT ARE FAILING CHILDREN OF COLOR.

AND THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENED FOR FAR TOO LONG.

>> Cathy: SAY, SINCE THE CAMERA IS ON YOU, BRIAN, GOING TO WATCH AND KEEP TRACK OF WHAT'S HAPPENING AT CPAC THIS WEEKEND WITH FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP?

>> DO I HAVE TO?

[Laughter] >> Cathy: JUST ASKING THE WELL.

>> CPAC HAS AALWAYS REPRESENTED A CERTAIN SEGMENT OF THE PARTY AND IT'S BEEN A GREAT EVENT.

I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I CERTAINLY AM SUFFERING FROM A A LITTLE BIT OF TRUMP FATIGUE, I WISH THE REST OF THE PARTY WAS SUFFERING FROM A LITTLE BIT MORE TRUMP FATIGUE BUILT I WANT TO SEE WHAT HE'S SAYING, WHAT HE'S DOING, IS THIS GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER THREE YEARS OF HEY, EVERYBODY, I'M A VICTIM, YOU KNOW, LOOK FOR ME IN 2024 OR IS HE GOING TO BE SAYING LET'S TRY TO FIND -- WHO ARE THE NEXT GROUP OF CONSERVE THEY HAVE LEADERS THAT TRUMP CAN PUT HIS SUPPORT BEHIND AND HOPEFULLY KIND OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, RETOOL THE CONSERVATIVE ELECTORATE INTO LOOKING SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

>> Eric: JAVIER, WHAT DUE HEAR ABOUT REDISTRICTING?

I THINK THERE'S BEEN ONE COMMITTEE MEETING AT THE LEGISLATURE, A LAWSUIT HAS BEEN FILED.

I GET THE IMPRESSION THEY MIGHT NOT EVEN DEAL WITH IT AND JUST LET THE COURTS DECIDE.

WHAT DO YOU HEAR?

>> I MEAN, HONESTLY DON'T WE ALL WANT THAT, REALLY?

I MEAN, IF WE LOOK AT THIS SERIOUSLY, JUST WITH DIVIDED GOVERNMENT THAT WE HAVE AND THE LENGTH -- THE AMOUNT OF TIME IT'S GOING TO TAKE TO GET -- BECAUSE THE CENSUS RESULTS ARE DELAYED, EITHER, RAH, TO GO THROUGH THE -- ET CETERA, TO GO THROUGH THE MOTIONS OF HAVING A REPUBLICAN PLAN AND A DEMOCRATIC PLAN WHEN WE KNOW IT WILL ENDS UP IN COURT JUST SEEMS REALLY NOT WORTH ANYONE'S TIME AND I DON'T KNOW TO SOUND CYNICAL ABOUT THIS.

I THINK WE'RE A VERY FORTUNATE STATE AND NOT LIKE WE HAPPEN TO HAVE DIVIDED GOVERNMENT DURING CENSUS REAPPORTIONMENT, AND SO WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE EXTREME POLARIZATION AND GERRYMANDERING WE'VE SEEN IN OTHER STATES.

I AM A FAN OF NONPARTISAN REDISTRICTING COMMISSIONS TO GET THAT WORKED ON AND I HOPE WE CAN DO THAT ACROSS THE COUNTRY BUT WE'VE HAD THE NEXT BEST THING WHICH IS TO HAVE A NEUTRAL THIRD PARTY DO IT BECAUSE WE'VE HAD TO FIGHT IN GOVERNMENT AND THERE HASN'T BEEN SOMETHING TO AGREE ON ON THAT.

SO WE'LL SEE.

I MEAN, I THINK THIS COMING YEAR IS GOING TO BE BRUTAL, RIGHT, BECAUSE THE CIVIL WAR THAT WAS WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT THE PRIOR QUESTION ALLUDED TO, TOGETHER WITH, LIKE, THAT STATES ARE EITHER, YOU KNOW, WE'RE THE ONLY STATE WITH DIVIDED GOVERNMENT, EITHER RED OR BLUE, REDISTRICTING THERE'S JUST GOING TO BE HUGE BATTLES ACROSS THE COUNTRY SO WE CAN BREATHE A SIGH OF RELIEF THAT PERHAPS THIS WILL BE GOING TO THE COURTS.

>> Eric: OKAY, TIME HAS ESCAPED US.

THANK YOU BOTH, MEN.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

♪♪♪ >> ERIC: LET'S GET RIGHT TO OUR WEEKLY DOSE OF MINNESOTA HISTORY.

LAST WEEK, OUR QUESTION CONCERNED A TERM THAT IS NOW VERY COMMON BUT DIDN'T USED TO BE.

WE DID SOME RESEARCH AND DISCOVERED THAT THIS FAMILIAR TERM DIDN'T APPEAR IN PRINT IN A MINNESOTA NEWSPAPER UNTIL FEBRUARY, 1979, WHEN AN "ASSOCIATED PRESS" STORY CONTAINING THE TERM WAS PRINTED IN THE WINONA AND ST.

CLOUD DAILY NEWSPAPERS.

WHAT NOW COMMON TERM FIRST APPEARED IN A MINNESOTA NEWSPAPER THIS WEEK IN 1979?

WE DIDN'T RECEIVE MANY RIGHT ANSWERS BUT WE MUST ADMIT, THE RANGE OF WRONG GUESSES WAS IMPRESSIVE.

>> ERIC: THAT WAS A TERRIFIC GUESS, RICK, BUT THE TERM "POST-IT NOTE" WAS FIRST MENTIONED IN A STATE NEWSPAPER A BIT LATER, IN MAY OF 1980.

SO WHAT WAS THE TERM WE SOUGHT?

WE TURN AGAIN TO MITCHELL, THE POET, TO LEARN THE RIGHT ANSWER.

>> ERIC: THANK YOU, MITCHELL.

YES, CORONAVIRUS WAS FIRST MENTIONED IN A MINNESOTA NEWSPAPER IN FEBRUARY OF 1979 IN A STORY ABOUT THE COMMON COLD.

DO YOU HAVE AN INDEX FILE QUESTION YOU THINK WE HAVEN'T USED?

LET US KNOW.

REACH US AT 651-229-1430.

OR ALMANAC@TPT.ORG.

FOR SHOW-CLOSING MUSIC, WE HAVE ANOTHER PERFORMANCE FROM THE TPT ARCHIVES FEATURING THE LATE PETER OSTROUSHKO.

YOU WANT TO STAY TUNED FOR THIS.

SHORTLY BEFORE CHRISTMAS IN 2003, PETER APPEARED ON "ALMANAC" TO PLAY A HAUNTING TUNE ON HIS MANDOLIN.

IT'S AN ORIGINAL COMPOSITION CALLED "CHRISTMAS BELLS OF BELFAST."

IT'S LOVELY.

LET'S LISTEN TO PETER OSTROUSHKO AS WE SAY GOOD NIGHT.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

BE CAREFUL.

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