- Hi, I'm Steve Adubato and it is our honor for this entire program to be joined by United States Senator, the Senior United States Senator in the great state of New Jersey.

Robert Menendez is also the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, in the United States Senate.

Good to see you, Senator.

- Good to be with you, Steve.

I'm glad that we're, gotten together once again.

- Absolutely.

Listen, we are taping, as we begin going to May, 2022.

This will be seen a little bit after, so it's risky to even have this conversation, but, if people wanna watch the news, it's NJ Spotlight News, it's Metro Focus.

They'll tell you what's going on every day, particularly in the world of public, on the public broadcasting side, bigger picture though, long term, we don't know about Ukraine, how things are gonna play out, but you've been very clear in public about the role you believe the United States has not just in supporting Ukraine, but also dealing with Ukrainian refugees.

Please share Senator.

- Well, Ukraine, is far bigger than just the question of Ukraine.

Although in the first instance, of course its independence, its freedom, is essential.

And we have a large Ukrainian diaspora in New Jersey.

But the reason I tell average New Jerseyans and Americans, why Ukraine is important, is because we cannot have another Munich moment.

In 1938, Neville Chamberlain, the Prime Minister of Great Britain said to Hitler, "We'll give you Czechoslovakia."

And he thought that would be the end of it.

Well, we know history is different.

And so, we've seen with Putin in 2008, he invaded the country of Georgia.

In 2014, he took Crimea.

The west did not respond in any assertive way, gave him a slap on the wrist and that was it.

And he said, well, "I can continue to do this."

And now we have Ukraine.

So, we cannot afford for this march to go on.

As he tries to recreate what was a Soviet Union, we have commitments under our NATO treaty, to defend NATO allies, that are right along Russia's border, Poland, Lithuania and other, Estonia and other kind countries.

So we must stop them there and help Ukraine preserve their freedom.

At the same time, we must send a message to the rest of the world that as we're urging them to be good neighbors, to Ukrainian refugees, that we also will accept Ukrainian refugees.

And I admire the president answering my call to do that, not a only on a temporary protective status, but also opening up our refugee program to be able to take a significant number of Ukranians.

- I'm gonna come back to the issue of immigration in title 42 in just a couple moments.

But, I wanna ask you this about Putin.

And again, our programming is not about what's happening today.

We cannot predict the future, but of that being said, putting things in perspective, Senator Menendez.

In your lofty purchase as the chair of the Senate Farm Relations Committee, and also frankly dealing with these issues for years, what could and should, not just, President Trump, but President Obama have done?

What could and should they have done?

Potentially, to potentially have avoided where we are today?

Or do you believe, Putin is Putin.

He's gonna do what he wants to and it doesn't matter what US President does or doesn't do?

- Well, look, Putin is KGB, he's a thug and he only understands strength.

But in both cases of your question, when Obama was president, had we severely sanctioned and brought the international community together as President Biden has now, when Putin invaded Crimea, things I think would be different because there'd be a different calibration of the consequences to Russia, but we did not.

And then, when President Trump actually held up, Zelensky, didn't provide him with the armament he was seeking, insisted that he give him a favor, as he said it famously, which was to try to find dirt on President Biden's son in return for getting the type of assistance and the White House meeting he needed to show Russia that the United States was behind Ukraine.

He ultimately sent Russia the wrong message.

So in both cases, there was, there were bad signals.

And I think we'd be in a different place today.

Having said that, I do admire President Biden for bringing an international coalition together in the shortest period of time I've ever seen in 30 years of doing foreign policy in keeping it together, in deepening the sanctions and tightening the noose around Putin's neck, creating consequences because of Putin's actions to the Russian people that ultimately I hope will change the course of events in Ukraine.

- Some have argued that President Biden should be a more assertive, more aggressive, more engaged, and frankly tougher.

The question becomes it's not whether I don't know.

And, and I don't even know if you have an opinion on this, but it's more a question of, how tough can we be before we risk, engaging Russia and Putin more directly and risk something much worse?

A war and a war with unfathomable consequences, Senator.

- Well, Steve, this, your question is a great question.

And is the question of the moment.

First of all, for those who say that President Biden isn't tough enough.

Well, it's under President Biden that over 3 billion dollars of lethal, defensive equipment has gone to Ukraine.

That didn't exist before.

Certainly not in those capacities.

Secondly, it is President Biden that bought an international coalition that ended the Nord Stream Pipeline that Russia so desperately wanted, that bought international sanctions against Russian banks, the Russian foreign currency against the Central Bank of Russia, against many of the oligarchs.

And so, those are all tough.

At the end of the day, the question becomes for those who advocate that we intervene militarily in Ukraine, that means, very clearly a war with Russia.

And I do not think that at this point in time, the American people after 20 years of wars in Afghanistan, Iraq are ready to go into a war where we have not had direct aggression against us.

So I think the president is doing everything that one can do, without sending American sons and daughters into Ukraine.

- I'm gonna talk about a whole range of urban issues because we're doing a series called Urban Matters in cooperation with some, the folks of Kean University.

But real quick, you mentioned Afghanistan.

Could I get a minute or less on, the withdrawal from Afghanistan?

Do you acknowledge?

Do you agree?

That the withdrawal was poorly planned and poorly executed?

- I think that the withdrawal was in the making when President Trump dramatically drew down our forces, when he gave the Taliban 5,000 prisoners that were in the Afghan government's jails, he released 5,000 prisoners and he told the Taliban a date certain upon which the United States would leave.

That's what President Biden inherited.

So, understanding that, I think the decision that the president made was right.

I think the execution, was poor.

And I have said at that at hearings at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, but it was in the works based upon what President Trump created.

- So, as I said, we're doing this series on Urban Matters.

You're, you're a product of an urban community Union City.

You come out of that city, as I come out of Newark and the whole range of people watching, who either come from, a city, living in a city, care about urban issues, as it relates to urban issue, Senator, what would you say the top two or three issues are that you and your colleagues are dealing with in the Senate, as it relates to the cities of America?

Please Senator.

- Well, some of these go to the heart of living in urban centers, but they also are more significant.

One of the questions is, "How do we make life less costly, right?

Because for urban centers, most of the time you'll see that the economies of individuals in those centers are less than the states as a whole.

And so, how do we, you know?

Make childcare more affordable?

When $13,000 is the cost of childcare, for a family of median income of 85,000 in New Jersey?

Well, that's not tolerable and it doesn't allow one of the spouses to ultimately go ahead and go into the workforce as they desire to do so or return to the workforce after COVID.

We have to make childcare more affordable.

We have to make energy costs more affordable.

We have to be able to preserve the dream of home ownership, which is the single biggest asset that most New Jersey and American families will have to build upon wealth and create intergenerational possibilities.

And that's what I do as a member of the Senate Banking and Housing Committee.

I'm focused on that, on the finance committee, I'm focused on childcare costs and then also healthcare costs, you know?

We made great steps forward under the affordable care act, but we have yet to really achieve all of the elements, both on coverage, as well as in affordability.

And those are three big tranches of things that I think are critical for moving forward and having a better quality of life in our urban centers, but beyond as well.

- You are watching and listening to United States Senator, Robert Menendez, the chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee as other responsibilities in terms of the committees of the Senate as well.

He's the senior Senator in New Jersey, United States Senator.

We will have, his colleague, United States Senator Cory Booker on in the future.

But Senator, I'm gonna go back to the topic of childcare.

We're also engaged in a public awareness initiative around childcare issues.

It's called Re-imagined Childcare.

We're not advocating for, but we are talking about the need for quality affordable, accessible childcare.

You have been directly involved in this issue as a United States Senator.

Please talk about it.

- Well, one of the things we wanna do is legislation on sponsoring, that would make sure that, childcare for working families it's called, that no one, would pay more than 7% of their income.

If they're at medium income, which in New Jersey is about $85,000.

You know?

The reality is, that that makes childcare far more affordable.

We have to look at some of the tax incentives to help middle class and working families with childcare costs.

And we had an enormous number of childcare centers close during the pandemic.

I visited one in Newark that is still open, but dramatically downsized from where it was, high quality childcare.

Now we're talking about not just taking, keeping your child minded, but educating your child at the same time.

And so those are all elements that we're working on to have high quality childcare that is affordable, that gives parents the wherewithal to make life decisions about work and other things.

And that prepares a child at the most important stages of their life for future growth.

- United States Senator Robert Menendez.

If you're listening on the radio side and you hear what he's saying, we appreciate everyone joining us.

You'll see information about the Senators, his Senator's contact information, his Twitter account, et cetera et cetera.

Senator, stay right with us.

We're gonna take a quick break.

When we come back, I wanna talk about, the future of our democracy.

January 6th, bipartisanship or the lack thereof in the nation's capital.

Steve Adubato, way more importantly, the senior Senator in New Jersey, United States, senior Senator Robert Menendez, will be right back.

To watch more Think Tank with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

Welcome back everyone we're joined by United States Senator Robert Menendez.

Senator, I want to get into, a series we're doing, I keep saying different series, but there, we try to track things in different areas.

And this has been a, I dunno, 10 years, we've been doing Democracy at a Crossroads.

Is it beyond at a crossroads, particularly when we look back on January 6th and beyond that, to the point where it's just hanging on by a thread.

I don't wanna be overly dramatic.

It's not my job to do commentary here.

How's our democracy doing particularly after January 6th?

- Well, Steve, on January 6th, we faced an insurrection, that brought us this close, to facing what in our country we've never experienced and what we decry in other countries in the world.

And it is only because of the actions of some individuals, Vice President Pence, who one must applaud for not succumbing to President Trump's over choice and upholding his role under the constitution and the Judiciary.

Even those appointed by President Trump who acted in accordance with the law and upheld the process so that the counting could continue so that the votes of Americans could ultimately count as they cast them.

But I must be honest with you.

After 45 years of serving in public life, I've always thought that the strength of our institution and our democracy was unshakable.

And on that day, not just because of the insurrection, but what ripple effect in terms of what it meant with the electoral count.

I saw, fractures in it.

And so, you know?

One of the things I've been doing is working to think about and offering legislation.

How do we institutionally make sure that regardless of who's in office and what election takes place, that our democracy is preserved and not subject to the winds of one individual who wants to undermine it.

And in terms of the workings of particularly of the Senate, look, I counted as 60 when I was in grade school.

I understand that's the vote you need to get things done in the Senate.

And I'm proud to have passed so many pieces of legislation into law, working with Republican colleagues.

It's not always the way I want it exactly.

It's not always the way they want it, but it's good enough to move forward.

And many of those successes are significant, like Autism Cares for New Jersey, which has the right highest rate of autism, legislation in terms of foreign policy, legislation to incentivize the biotech industry in our state, all that have become law, are important.

But they don't get the ink that conflict offers, you know?

- But Senator, I wanna go back to something.

I don't know what the latest numbers are, but let's just say a disproportionate 60, 70, maybe 80%, of those who are polled, who happen to call themselves quote Republicans, believe that the 2020 election, was stolen.

That Joe Biden is not the legally elected president of United States.

And so when we talk about Democracy at a Crossroads, that's, I don't, people say, well, the things like that have happened before there was the election of 2000.

Yeah, there are a lot of elections.

But has there ever been a time from your experience?

And you talk about being involved, 40 plus years ago, 45 years ago.

I believe you ran for the school board at a very young age and got very involved in politics and in Union City and understand what rough and tumble really means, in New Jersey in politics, will go there another day.

But Senator, have you ever had a time with a vast, vast majority of those in the party that is not elected believe that the person elected is not the president?

Is not the legally elected president.

A, have you ever seen that?

And B, what the heck does that mean, moving forward?

- No Steve.

Look, I have seen, people be disappointed in that- - Yes.

- Their person wasn't elected.

- Al Gore was disappointed in 2000.

- Yeah.

But they have always believed, that the result of the election was valid, that it was legitimate.

And that believe belief is critical, regardless of who is the victor at the end of the day, that belief is critical to our democracy.

And so, it is amazing.

You know?

We learn from history that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will begin to believe it.

And that's why programming like yours, and I don't say that because we're on together, but really programs like yours, that's insightful.

You ask those questions, you get answers, is important because when we look in the social media spheres, we ultimately see the amount of disinformation and misinformation that is generated that creates, a real challenge for people.

So, you know?

A literate democracy in terms of wading through the social media that people tell me, "I saw it on the internet."

"Okay, what source?"

(both laughing) Did you see it on the internet?

Like, just because it's on the internet, it doesn't mean that it's true.

So- - Or excuse me Senator, Senator.

Excuse me.

Excuse me, sorry for interrupting.

Or "I watched it on a network or on a platform that I watch all the time."

Okay.

So, you watch something that reinforces what you already believe.

"Oh, I don't watch those other stations because that's fake news."

And that goes for all kinds of people.

My question is this, trust me, I'm off my soapbox.

If you just watch, listen and engage with media and information that tells you what you believe is right- - Yeah.

- I'm trying to be positive here, but we in public broadcasting, we have our audience, we don't have a horse in the race, but if people are just watching what they watch to tell them they're right, what the heck do we do with that?

- Yeah.

This is when we watch only that which we want to believe in, not even maybe that we... what we want to believe in and not politically judge, what is the truth?

Then we ultimately create a cast upon which it's impossible to move from.

Listen, I long for the days of Walter Cronkite where he'd look into the screen and says, "Here now the news," and then you'd make the judgment about what the news was, what it meant and what not versus being told what it's supposed to mean.

But unfortunately, that's where we're at.

And it takes, an engaged and a literate elector, not a literate elector in the context of being able to read and write.

That's not what I'm talking about, literate in terms of the sophistication of testing different sources to ultimately come to what's the truth.

- And to that end, an issue that's been covered tremendously in the media.

People have all different opinions on it.

Again, getting accurate information is important.

Sex education.

Again, the state of New Jersey is looking at it.

States across the nation, Governor Murphy, and you're not involved in state politics and state policy, if you will, or state government, I should say.

But the governor said, "Listen, let's re-examine what the Department of Education's Policy is.

What do you believe?

I know this is a huge issue Senator, but do you believe, that we need to re-examine what quote sex education should be and needs to be particularly in younger grades in public schools?

- Well, look, I think that, we have had public schools be the vehicle for education of all sort, family living, some people call sex education, the family living component of that.

Making sure that we don't have unwanted pregnancies at the end of the day, that's part of sex education.

Making sure that we don't have transmittable diseases, that's part of sex education.

So, in my view, of course, I've always believed that parents have the first and foremost responsibility and should be the ultimate educators in their home, but we cannot believe that in our society, all parents, either do that, have the wherewithal to do it, feel comfortable in doing it.

And so, if we want to make sure we don't have unwanted pregnancies, if we don't want to have transmissible diseases, if we want to have an understanding of what, the elements of ultimately family life is, then I see nothing wrong with the public schools engaging in that.

For so long, my kids went through it.

I don't think they turned out so bad.

- I, Senator, I'll get off this.

And I wanna ask you about the Supreme court and our newest associate justice of the Supreme court.

And you've been very clear on that, but real quick on this, I don't think anyone would debate or argue anything you just said about those areas of health, sex related education, but real quick, for those parents and everyone hears what Governor DeSantis is saying in Florida, but bring it back to New Jersey if you will.

You know what?

I don't want my fifth grader hearing about, knowing about or discussing anything about outside of, a mother and a father and a child or children.

That's what a family is.

And all this stuff about, who falls outside of that and trans related issues.

That's not appropriate.

Kids getting to dis... people believe that that's what's going on in the schools that kids get to decide whether they're a boy or a girl or something different.

I don't really know what it is and it's not, but that's controversial and confusing to a lot of people Senator.

- Well, truly, but I don't believe if that's what public schools are teaching, at the end of the day.

And, you know, listen, I'm sure that at one time, teaching that the racists could stand side by side was controversial.

- That's right.

- And so, we like to live in a society where we accept all and regardless of how they define themselves as a fellow American, whether by nationality, race, sexual preference or whatever.

And so, that should be our goal at the end of the day.

And you know, I do think parents have the, the primary responsibility, but public schools play an important role.

- Final question.

We have a new associate justice of the Supreme court Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson, confirmed by the US Senate.

The significance of that?

A minute or less, please Senator.

- First of all, a woman of enormous intellect, probably the most qualified present member of the Supreme court, other than Sonia Sotomayor, who also served at all the different levels.

This judge, unlike the rest of her colleagues served as a public defender, served at the circuit court of the federal district, served at the... the district court, which is the local court, then the circuit court, which unlike our appellate in the federal district.

And then now in the Supreme court.

She's eminently qualified and also historic because we have never had an African American woman on the court.

And now a majority of the court, is a female majority.

That speaks volumes of where we've come in our country and on the Supreme court.

- Senator I have 30 seconds left.

45 years in public life, how many years in the United States Senate?

- Wow, it's been- (Steve laughs) - You have to do the math?

But you were in the house before that?

- Yeah, it's been about 16 years.

- And also before that a state Senator in the great state of New Jersey.

You still love what you do?

Go ahead Senator.

- I do.

And before that 14 years in the house.

I will say this, I have a, I do love what I do, what my pay is, is to change the course of events for the better, both at home and abroad.

And the day that I don't think I can change the course of events of better at home and abroad and I walk out late at night from my office, I see the Capitol lit up, I understand what it means to people in our country and across the globe today.

And the I don't get the chill that I still get is the day it's time to go.

- Yeah.

Well said.

United States Senator Robert Menendez, the chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Our senior United States Senator, I wanna thank you so much.

We wish you and your family all the best, thank you Senator.

- And to you, Steve.

Thank you.

- I'm Steve Adubato.

That is United States Senator Robert Menendez.

Thanks for watching.

See you next time.

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