Welcome back to Off the Record.

Our guest this week is Republican State Representative Jim DeSana.

Our lead story, the governor delivers a message, but who was she talking to on the panel?

Jonathan Oosting, Emily Lawler and Rick Albin sit with us as we get the inside out.

Off the record.

Production of Off the Record is made possible in part by Martin Waymire, a full service strategic communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and public policy engagement.

Learn more at martinwaymire.com.

And now this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick.

Thank you.

Welcome back to Off the Record.

We're chatty group because we survived this past week.

All right.

So give me how many days was my Internet out?

Give me a number.

Two days.

One.

Your Internet.

You're five days.

Try 7.

Yes.

And without good friends, Allen and Scott and others, I'd still be on my Underwood typewriter, which nobody knows.

Yeah, I'm surprised you use the Internet.

So you can.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

Hard.

All right.

Let's get to business here.

Governor Gretchen Whitmer gave a speech this week.

How come, everybody?

In town knows Governor Gretchen Whitmer cannot run for reelection?

But you would absolutely swear that she is by the tone of her rah rah speech.

We have it all.

So let's tell the story because we're Michiganders, dammit.

And there's nothing better than that.

Appearing before a standing room, standing ovation crowd of Whitmer supporters, the governor laid out her four point agenda for the upcoming fall term, including the elimination of Republican restrictions on abortion.

Slaying our zombie laws was great, but there are still other bad laws that put politically motivated, medically unnecessary restrictions on abortion.

This forces patients to drive hundreds of miles for care or mandate that they receive biased, inaccurate information about their health.

The governor also wants insurance companies to eliminate caps on how much they will pay for health care.

Protections for preexisting conditions.

So you can't be charged more for having cancer, diabetes or being pregnant.

77% of Michigan residents do not have paid family leave.

The governor argues, let's make that universal.

So many of us have points in our lives when we have a baby or an aging parent or a sick spouse or sometimes two of those things at once.

But not all of us have access to paid family and medical leave, and we deserve better.

No one should have to choose between being there for their family and a paycheck.

The governor wants the lawmakers to make the state 100% clean energy independent by a date certain.

But she refused to set a date.

The House speaker says the date is why TBD yet to be determined.

I think there is going to be continued deliberations.

The governor also wants to go after those who would harass or attack election workers and try to undo election results with lawmakers back in this town next week.

The governor has a four word phrase or message to them.

Let's get it done.

Lawmakers are back in town next Tuesday.

What was the lead up to this speech?

Well, I think my takeaway was basically we have the traditional state of the state speech in January.

Whitmer sets an ambitious agenda January through March.

April, really?

They just truck through priorities.

They're trucking through.

They do things like Right to Work repeal.

They do things like the license of rights expansion, things that have been on the wishlist for a long time.

They get through the budget, they go on summer break, they're coming back.

And I think what's next is a really valid question that the governor wanted to address and sort of get ahead of and set a new to do list ahead of the fall session.

How did it play?

You know, I mean, along partizan lines, the reaction.

But I think the speech was a it's a message to the legislature.

But they mostly knew it was coming B it was a message to the state, into the country.

I think that Whitmer saying, look, we got all this stuff done.

We continue to look to Michigan as a place where Democratic priorities are going to be top of the agenda.

So, you know, I mean, paid sick leave, 100% clean energy.

This is a classic democratic or contemporary Democratic wish list that she is pursuing and she's telling the world, perhaps we're going to keep going here in Michigan.

Why is she telling the world, Mr. Albin?

Well, I think there may be a larger stage of waiting.

I think that the interesting thing for me was there were three takeaways, and some of this is going to get blown inside ball.

So stick with me for a minute.

There were two risers which normally you would put television cameras on.

They had at least three cameras on them, but all of them were controlled by the governor's people, the media.

We were relegated to this small space over to the side because this was beautifully stage with the blue background and the big monitor and.

Slides and the pictures.

And everything was done just as if it were a oh campaign.

And in addition to.

All he said facetiously.

In addition to all of that, I think the messaging was much broader than what's going to happen in the fall.

And I think part of the reason for all of this extra push may be because Democrats realized that in the short term they're probably not going to have a majority by January if if two of the House members get elected to mayor, two mayors positions.

But it seemed to, you know, just a rookie observer like me that this was something more than just a speech about the state.

Well, it was wonderfully produced.

I mean, if you just look at it from a broadcast standpoint, it was nicely done.

And you put it in a small room.

So it looked like it was packed.

You know, the old room, if you put one of these things in a gymnasium, it's empty.

If you put it in a small room and looked wow everybody and his uncle was a. Romney went over to the stadium.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There you go.

Absolutely.

But look at the response from the business community.

They thought the headline in the speech should have been governor proposes policy that will tax us.

No, thanks.

So I think that obviously some of her proposals are going to have resistance not only from Republicans in the legislature, possibly some disagreement over details from Democrats in the legislature, but primarily the business community.

Because, you know, one of the things that she did was introduce this paid leave concept.

She has broadened paid leave at the state level and said that more than 3500 employees have taken advantage of that and been able to use that.

But she didn't answer any detailed questions.

So there wasn't really any class.

She didn't answer any questions.

By design because that takes the edge off the speech.

If we get at her, we'll find a different lead than what they want to lead with.

The number one thing that businesses don't like is uncertainty.

And as they're looking at this speech, if I'm a business, I'm saying how many weeks, what percentage who's paying for it is point.

I think the paid sick leave proposal in particular is really going to be the meatiest form of policymaking that Democrats have actually attempted in Lansing so far.

They've done big things.

But, you know, repealing right to work is just taking that language out of the the law, stuff like that.

So this is a heavy lift because to the point the businesses are making, you got to figure out who pays for it.

A proposal already introduced in the House would essentially create a payroll tax.

It would have employers pay into a state fund, and they could take up to 50% of that payment out of the paychecks of their employees.

So is that going to go over well with businesses or employees?

Is this a fix.

The governor has on her side?

She has the public support on many of these issues.

So Republicans beware.

Okay.

This is like the gun issue.

All right.

The 80% of the people wanted safety boxes for guns.

The Republicans, not so much.

So there's a fine line here.

And I and I think it was probably a good strategy not to lay out all the particulars in this speech, because we know this is just the opening bell negotiations to follow.

I I'm not so sure their negotiations follow.

I mean, what the Democrats are done in the first part of the session, it was just go it alone.

They just do whatever they want to do.

They've got the votes and they.

Do it head fake towards cooperation.

Well, and that was about it.

But I mean, here's the thing with with this and you talk about you've got people on your side and that may well be true.

And it sounds like a great idea and paid leave, I mean, as an idea on a whiteboard is a great idea.

And when it starts costing me another, you know, two or $300 or whatever it's going to cost out of my paycheck, that idea starts to dim in the light of reality.

So I'm not sure.

But I think it's separate and different from the gun issue.

But because the gun issue didn't cost you any money and this very likely will, if it doesn't cost you, it's going to cost your employer and ultimately that costs you.

So and I think Governor Whitmer isn't just setting a fall agenda.

I think she's trying to be a national leader and set an agenda among all states.

So, you know, frankly, Minnesota got paid.

We've done that was one of the things that their Democratic trifecta is touting.

And I think that she's trying to get ahead of some of these issues that she sees as national waves in the future.

Jonathan.

Peter Meijer, exploratory thing for us Senate.

Surprise, surprise.

Not necessarily.

I mean, there's a little bit of surprise with timing because also this week we heard more confirmation from former Congressman Mike Rogers that he is also very likely to announce a campaign soon.

And those are two people who are probably going to run in the moderate lane and potentially create a crowded moderate lane in a GOP primary where in Michigan so far more right Trump candidates have been winning.

So the two of them divide up the moderate vote and they lose.

Well, if you have a more Trump candidate that has the ability to raise money, because what both of these folks have is the ability to raise money.

I mean, Rogers was in Congress for seven terms.

He knows where the.

Choice a little black book.

Right.

And obviously Meijer has his own resources and and raised considerable money anyway.

I mean I think that that they will be similar in style.

But when I talked with former Congressman Meijer yesterday, his positioning I thought was somewhat unique, saying that we're not going to be able to allow the old guard to continue doing what they were doing.

We're going to have to have fresh blood to fix the problems.

He focused on the withdrawal from Afghanistan, where he served, and he talked about some of those things.

So I think his his messaging already is to say, look, you all have had your chance and we need a different younger group of people do.

What do you make of it, Emily?

Yeah.

You know, I think not only do you need fresh blood, but you need fresh money.

I don't see the Michigan Republican Party necessarily organizing like they traditionally have to support a rally around any candidate.

But obviously, the Senate is the prize on the ballot this year.

And I think that, you know, they've struggled to raise money.

They've struggled to have sort of sort of the infrastructure that they once had.

So I think someone with a built in organizational background who's already been in Congress, which describes both of these characters, is definitely a pretty good resume for this position.

And there is no really defined class Trump candidate at this point.

Time, it's a good problem for Republicans to have.

They went from having no top tier candidates in the race to two pretty well-known, well-funded, likely candidates who are positioning themselves.

If anybody had a bad week, it's probably Elissa Slotkin, who's, you know, the front runner for the Democratic nomination.

Very much runs in that moderate, pragmatic lane that both Peter Meijer and Mike Rogers could also occupy.

And I think you bring up a very good point.

The Republican Party, as it is now constituted, is not going to be able to deliver dollars and cents in the way that they have in years past.

And with that being the case with the donor class largely stepping back from the Republican Party, you have to be able to raise your own money in some.

Form or not.

Well, let's just point out that if the current leadership of the Republican Party had any money, none of it would go to these two gentlemen.

No, that's exactly.

We don't know that.

They have the money or not.

That's right.

Do the two of them sit down at some point and say, you know what?

One of us is going to win if we're both in here, we both got problems.

Will there be that kind of reprimand this term?

You know, in some sense, do you want to be the person with the momentum going into a very split field?

So, you know, I could sort of see that being an advantage depending on like what other lanes the other candidates take.

We'll see how it plays out.

All right.

Let's call in our guest to talk about the governor's speech from the Republican perspective.

Representative, welcome to Off the Record.

And just very quickly, tell the folks in TVLand, the old timers, who your father is.

My father was a state senator from Wyandotte Michigan and Michigan Director of Transportation under John Engler.

So a lot of nostalgic days back in that era.

And he chaired Appropriations, which mean Wyandotte got a lot of money, right?

Well, back in those days, I thin Representative, you did not like the governor speech?

No, I did not.

I think that what's next?

We all kind of knew what's next.

Stating it was just her more spiking the football.

And I think that, you know, we're in the minority.

Obviously, there's not much we can do.

You know that your point was correct.

The Democrats have been pretty much running the table.

They have all three branches.

They have all four branches.

And they are doing what they want to do.

And we really have little control about that.

Senator Nesbitt, the Senate Republican leader in his lead paragraph on this, basically said she was running for president.

If there's a vacancy.

Well, do.

You agree with that?

I don't know about that, as there's so much uncertainty now.

And, you know, 2024 is going to be so dominated by national politics even in our own state.

It's so unpredictable right now.

I think that some people are saying, you know, it could be very, very unusual in 2024.

It could be a very unusual election year.

So Mr. Nesbitt is wrong.

I don't necessarily agree with Eric Nesbitt on too many points.

I think he got a lot of money in that budget that was just passed.

So Emily.

You know, you're saying Republicans don't have that much power against this Democratic trifecta, but do you see any openings in these issues that she's talked about, the abortion restrictions, the energy policy, the paid leave to pick off Democrats and bring them over to to a no vote that could block this?

Honestly, I do not.

I think that if you look at the past four months before our recess, there were zero Democrat defections except for the Marshall battery plant that Dylan Wegela would not go along with the corporate welfare.

And so they got one Republican vote on that that they knew they probably had in their back pocket.

And there's very little opportunity, I think, with this legislature for us to pick off Democrats and to try to convince them to come our way.

They're very unified.

They're very organized and very disciplined.

Representative, what is your concern with the paid sick leave proposal?

I mean, we know even at the National level, Trump, Ivanka, when she was working with him in the White House, paid leave was a big issue for her.

In concept, it seems like even some conservatives support it.

But what's what's the problem with the proposal Democrats are talking about right now?

Well, we're one of the highest tax states in in America.

The free market, you would hope, would have something to provide for this.

And I understand some people might counter and say the free market does not.

I'm a free market guy.

I think that if paid medical leave is valuable to attract employees, that people would offer it.

And in order to attract good employees, I think that having a payroll tax and asking more of our taxpayer, we're already overtaxed.

Michiganders are already overtaxed.

I think we need property tax relief.

That's not going to happen.

So more taxes, more programs.

We're at $82.6 billion with our budget.

We just passed it.

Government has grown in Michigan tremendously.

And how do we get back?

I'm a limited government guy.

How are we going to get back to limited government?

I, I don't know that we see that path forward in the short term.

We have to take a long term view.

How do we get back to having a truly limited government and adding more into the employer and the employee?

Adding more that we want to take from them doesn't get us to limited government.

It really doesn't.

Republicans had eight years where they controlled everything under Rick Snyder.

Did they limit government then?

No, absolutely not.

And I'm not a Rick Snyder fan, as you can probably imagine.

The the opportunities that we missed during that era we're paying for now.

Well, you had another group of years with John Engler.

Did they limit government government at that point?

Well, I'm going to tell you that if you weren't making money in the John Engler days, you were probably in the wrong field.

That was probably our our glory years in Michigan.

And I'd like to get back to about where we were then.

Did they limit government then?

I wouldn't say that we were limiting government.

I don't know that Michigan has ever really had truly limited government like some of the other states.

And this is the hardship and the problem we're in right now is how do you how do you restrict government when it's grown so large?

Representative, you said that the Democrats were united.

The same cannot be said of your caucus, correct?

I don't think we could use that term.

No.

What's wrong?

Well, you've got conservative Freedom Caucus members like myself and you've got people who may not necessarily believe in limited government.

I think that when you look at where we want to take the state as a freedom Caucus and as a truly limited government person, we've we've got that tension.

And look look at our brand is damaged as Republicans.

We know this.

If you look at our speakers, previous speakers, we've we've damaged our brand tremendously from Rick Johnson to Lee Chatfield to Jason Wentworth.

They were all the money that the Democrats are giving out to the Democrat districts.

We did it too.

And that's wrong.

It doesn't make it right.

Representative, you just said you're not a fan of Rick Snyder, the former governor.

He is, however, helping lead fund raising for your caucus right now.

Will you accept money from the caucus that's raised by Rick Snyder?

Yes, I will.

I'm I'm underneath the the umbrella under duress.

I mean, Rick Snyder, I do not agree with I do not agree with a lot of his.

You and take his money.

Well, he's raising money.

He's raising money for our caucus from other people who are good conservative people.

So he's spearheading the the the effort.

But I mean, we're talking about a person who, through negligence or not being aware or not being aware, the things he should have been aware of.

We poisoned an entire city in the state of Michigan, so I.

Blame him for that.

Do you blame Rick Snyder?

I do.

I think.

He should.

Flint water crisis?

I think he should have been more on top of that.

I really do.

I think that we should have anticipated he the buck stopped with him.

Honestly, I really do believe in that case the buck stopped with him.

We we dropped the ball.

And Flint had let in their water because of the emergency manager.

And when you have a program like that, you have got to have a better control than to let your emergency manager make that shift and then have a catastrophe.

When you said you can take money from from the group that he will raise money from, is that because you don't think that the state Republican Party is going to be able to provide the financing that the House members will need?

I think we will be able to provide the financing.

Honestly, it's going to be challenging.

I mean, I was vastly outspent in my race and I defeated the only Democrat incumbent representative.

So being outspent doesn't necessarily mean you lose.

I'm in a 50/50 district, marginal 50/50 district.

So money is not everything when it comes to politics.

But it's important.

As I hear you talk about limited government.

And I wonder if there's one part of Whitmer's speech that you may support, which is that she wants to take away the some government regulations that tend to limit abortion access.

Being a limited government guy, I. I want the government to stay out of your life.

Yes, I do.

I do.

But I want to protect life.

I'm pro-life, and I believe that it's a hardship for me to know where the culture is.

I believe we have to work in the culture.

I have four daughters and six granddaughters.

It would be horrific to me for them to have to make a decision to take the life of of a child.

And so I've introduced a bill to help women to get to the doctor, to have child care that has a snowball's chance in hell of getting out of committee.

But I think that 24 hour waiting period is a good thing.

I think when you're having a crisis to say, hey, wait 24 hours, let's see how you feel tomorrow about this before you make this life altering decision.

And I think informed consent is a good thing.

I think parental consent is a good thing.

I know where we're at in the culture today and I know that we're we're up against it.

It's a that's a hardship for me, but I'm pro-life and I'm going to stand for the unborn child.

Representative, would the Freedom Caucus be more comfortable with a different Republican leader in the House?

I think that the Freedom Caucus is is so interested in changing the narrative that we would love to have a Freedom Caucus member as the speaker of the House.

Yeah.

So is there going to be an effort to remove Mr. Hall at some point?

I think we're riding through this legislative term with everything we decided.

Honestly, I don't think there's any talk of that.

You have heard that chatter, though, have you not?

Absolutely.

I'm sorry.

How many members does the Freedom Caucus claim?

Nine.

Nine of our caucus.

Out of 54.

Correct.

And your critics say you guys are just out of step with everybody else.

Absolutely.

And I mean, we're we're.

Absolutely You are?

No, we're criticized.

Absolutely.

We're criticized.

But that's not.

True.

Not I don't think it's true.

I think that if you're I'm in my district, if you look at the the feelings out there of of Michiganders, we're overtaxed.

Things are really bad.

Expensive inflation.

We're out.

We are out for the little guy.

We're out battling for the little guy.

The rest of the closet caucus ignores you guys.

For the for the most part, yes.

And the you know, we're out there we're out there banging the drum for limited government for let's get let's get things back to where they need to be governmentally wise.

We're we're watching this budget and we're just shaking our head, you know, in amazement.

Representative, you were at a fundraiser recently for the so-called fake electors.

These are Republicans.

who signed the document falsely stating that President Trump won the 2020 election.

They're now facing criminal charges at that event.

Another freedom member, caucus member, Matt Maddock, Representative Maddock, made some comments that he thought prosecution like this is going to lead to people shooting each other and potentially a civil war.

Do you think those comments are appropriate and do you agree with them?

I think the comment was that somebody is going to shoot somebody if this rhetoric isn't brought down and wasn't the rhetoric, it was the charges.

Yeah, well, and if you listen to the whole statement, it was that we're going to get we are going to get run over conservatives if we if we if this continues, because obviously we're in the minority.

And I believe that the so called fake electors, they were the Republican electors they would would have if Trump would have won Michigan, they would have been the electors didn't win Michigan.

And they tried.

I mean, and the previous court case, you can see that they they submitted these documents that they had to know.

And they had to submit them by that date.

And at that point, they didn't know exactly.

I mean, if you look at what just was reported in Muskegon, it hasn't been widely reported, but all of the voter.

Fraud was investigated and there were no charges.

Those are registration applications, not ballots, absentee ballot applications.

And I don't run out of time.

I have to ask you this question.

Does the Republican Party fare better in 2024 if Donald Trump is the top of the ticket or if someone else is top of tyhe ticket?

I think that the Republican Party will do well with whoever we have at the top of the ticket.

But to answer your question directly, I think that the Republican Party will do well in Michigan with Donald Trump at the at the top of the ticket.

Who is your candidate for the US Senate?

I don't know that I have anybody yet for Senate.

I'm waiting to see who all enters the race.

Obviously, there's going to be a lot of people in that in that race.

Representative, thanks for doing the program.

Good to see you.

This next week, more off the record right here.

Everybody have a safe weekend, okay.

Production of Off the Record is made possible in part by Martin Waymire a full service strategic communications agency, partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and public policy engagement.

Learn more at martinwaymire.com.

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