WELCOME BACK.

OUR GUEST THIS WEEK IS POLITICAL CONSULTANT JASON ROE URGING A YES VOTE ON PROPOSAL ONE TO HAVING TO DO WITH TERM LIMITS ON THE OTR PANEL, RICK PLUTA, EMILY LAWLER AND ZACHARY GORCHOW SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE INSIDE OUT OFF THE RECORD.

PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY A FULL SERVICE STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS AGENCY PARTNERING WITH CLIENTS THROUGH PUBLIC RELAGS, DIGITAL MARKETING AND PUBLIC POLICY.

LEARN MORE ON-LINE.

AND NOW, THIS EDITION OF OFF THE RECORD WITH TIM SKUBICK.

GOVERNOR WHITMER: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WELCOME TO OFF THE RECORD TIM: SOME POLLING DATA THAT WRAP DATES WHERE WE REASON THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK.

REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR TUDOR DIXON IS WING ON 41% OF THE SHALL SHOOTING IMPORTANT TO MICHIGAN VOTERS.

GOVERNOR WHITMER IS WINNING ON THE REST 56%.

>> REPUBLICANS ARE WINNING AMONG THOSE WHO CHOSE INFLATION AS WELL AS GOVERNMENT SPENDING AND THE ACADEMY.

WHITMER AND THE DEMOCRATS ARE RUN!

WING ON ALL THE OTHER ISSUES.

>> INCLUDING ABORTIONS WHERE THE GOVERNOR IS WINNING 79% OF THOSE WHO RANK ABORTION AS THEIR TOP ISSUE.

>> ABORTION INFLUENCING WOMEN, DEMOCRATIC WOMEN, ALSO, INDEPENDENT WOMEN.

THE GOVERNOR HAS 42 POINT LEAD WITH INDEPENDENT FEMALE VOTERS WHILE CANDIDATE DIXON WINS INDEPENDENT MEN, BUT BY FOUR POINTS MEANWHILE POLLSTER STEVE MITCHELL THINKS THE ABORTION ISSUE IS BEING BLOWN BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION ON HE MOAT VATING TO VOTE FOR MISS WITH IT WHATTER.

I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR IT.

VERY VERY CAREFULLY LOOKING FOR IT.

THE HUGE MOMENTUM AMONG PRO CHOICE VOTERS TO NOTE POLLS.

THEY WILL GET TO THE POLLS THEN I AM SEEING STRONG, VONG SUPPORT FOR PRO LIFE SPART AS WELL.

BOTH AGREE THIS RACE IS NOT OVER YET.

IT IS NOTED THE POLLS SHOW JOHN ENGLER LOSING FOR GOVERNOR BY 20 POINTS WAY BACK WHEN.

HE LEAKED OUT A 17,000 VOTE VICTORY OVER JIM BLANCHARD.

THIS IS NOT OVER.

>> IN, NO.

A LOT CAN HAP PEP.

ENOUGH TO IN THE RACE AROUND FOR GOVERNOR.

>> GOOD QUESTION.

SO EMILY, WHEN YOU SAW THAT NUMBER.

WHAT DID YOU THINK?

I MEAN, THE FIRST THOUGHT WAS HOW IT FIT TO THE TREND AND IN AUGUST THE POLL THAT HAD GOVERNOR WHIT MARE UP BY 11 POINTS THEN ANOTHER ONE THIS WEEK THAT HAD HER UP BY 11 POINTS TO 16 POINTS AND SEEMS LIKE THERE IS A CLEAR TREND, THAT WHITMER IS WIDENING THE GP AT THIS POINT.

NOW IS THAT NECESSARILY GOING TO STAY TRUE THROUGH ELECTION DAY?

I WOULDN'T EXPECT SO.

WOULD EXPECT THAT AS MORE VOTERS A, TUNE UN, THEY ARE ABSENTEE BALLOTS THEN C GET READY TO HEAD TO POLLS THEN THIS THERE I MAYBE MOVEMENT IN THOSE NUMBERS THEN, MEAN, IT IS POSSIBLE BY THE TIME THIS IS ALL SAID AND DONE, BETWEEN GOVERNOR WHITMER IN, DEM DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR'S ASSOCIATION.

OTHER DEMOCRATIC GROUPS MORE MONEY WILL HAVE BEEN SPENT ON BEHALF OF THE WHITMER CAMPAIGN, PI ANY OTHER GOVERNOR CANDIDATE EVER, AND IT IS POSSIBLE LESS MONEY WILL BE SPENT BY ON PE HALF OF TUDOR DIXON THAN ANY OTHER MAJOR PARTY CAN DEATH IN MODERN POLITICS.

YOU CAN'T DEFY THAT KIND OF GRAVITY.

AND YOU KNOW, WHETHER THE LEAD IS, 10 OR 16 OR 8 OR WHATEVER.

IT IS PRETTY CLEAR, GOVERNOR WHITMER IS COMMANDING RIGHT NOW AND SOMEONE HAS TO START SPENDING MONEY ON BEHALF OF TUDOR DION OR HAS TO RAISE SOME IN NY TODAY, REALLY, A MONTH AGO, OR IT IS GOING TO TURN INTO A TOTAL RUNAWAY.

LOOK.

NO MATTER WHAT THE TREND IS IN THE WRONG DIRECTION FORTITUDOR DIXON WHICH IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT TAKEWAWAYS FROM IF.

WAS BASICALLY STANDING STILL ON THE NUMBERS.

THE GAP BETWEEN TUDOR DIXON AND GREAT CHEN WHITMER IS GROWING AND THAT HAS GOT TO BE I REVERSED AND IF YOU KNOW SHE IS GOING TO HAVE REMOTE CHANCE.

REMEMBER, HE CAME FROM PEA HOON HE WAS WORKING HE WAS CAMPAIGNING AND HOLDING EVENTS THAT HE HAD GREAT COMMERCIALS ON THERE.

>> REMEMBER.

WAS.

YOU KNOW?

THERE WAS.

THE PROPERTY TAXES WERE A HUGE ISSUE THEN, AND, HE, HE BLASTED JIM BLANCHARD'S PROPERTY TAX PLAN SAYING THIS WOULD JUST, YOU KNOW, SAVE TAXPAYERS A NICKEL.

THERE WAS CLOSER WITH HIS MOTHER?

HE SAID IF YOU BELIEVE ALL THE IN THISES THAT ARE BEING SAID ABOUT ME.

MY OWN MOTHER WOULD NOT VOTE FOR ME.

THEN, YOU KNOW.

PS THEN ENG LESH CAME ON.

OH, JOHN I WAS EXAMINING TOETTE VOTE FOR YOU AND BECAME A MICHIGAN CELEBRITY IN HER OWN RIGHT AS A RESULT OF THAT AD.

WE ARE NOT SEEING ANY LENGTH HIKE THIS THAT FROM TUDOR DIXON.

AS A MATTER OF FACT AND GOES AFTER, WELL, US, ON SOCIAL MEDIA SAYING THE JOURNALISTS ARE NOT DOING THEIR JOB, YOU KNOW, I HAVE SOON THEHE RESPONSE GOING, HEY, I A DAY FROM WE YOU ON THE MEDIA.

YOU NEED TO GET OUT THERE YOU HEED TO COME TOLL MY COUNTY YOU KNOW WE ARE NOT.

SHE IS GETTING OUT MORE THAN SHE WAS.

SHE IS NOT GETTING OUT A LOT.

YOU KNOW?

LOOK YOU SAID.

SHE IS NOT GETTING ON THE AIR.

I DO THINK SHE HAD COUPLE OF WEEKS.

LASTING WOOK WE SAW THE SAFETY PLAN.

THIS WOOK WE SAW EDUCATION NEWS.

SHE WAS IN THE THUMB YESTERDAYZ WITH HERNANDEZ AND THE RUNNING MATE WE ARE IS FROM IN THAT AREA.

THEN HERNANDEZ SAID, THEN, WPHM BER YOU HAVE AND U.P.

RECENTLY AND DO THINK THEY ARE GETTING OUT AROUND THE STATE AND THESE REAL POPULATION CENTERS ADVERTISING IS A GOOD WAY TO PENETRATE.

WELL, HE SAID CLEARLY IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE MONEY YOU CANNOT WIN.

IS IT THAT SIMPLE APPROXIMATELY YES.

IT IS A TV STATE AND NOT PRESIDENTIAL WERARY WE WHERE WE MEET.

AND FIVE MILLION PEOPLE AND YOU KNOW, YES.

YOU DO NEED TO DO THE KIND OF PRESS CONFERENCE.

AND NOT GOING TO MOVE THE MEDIA AND GOT TO BE ON TELEVISION AND WE HAVE HAVE SEEN OTHER CAN DAY FOR CONGRESS TO AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND WHO WERE NOT ABLE TO GET ON THE TELEVISION AND MIGHT HAVE HAD NICE THINGS IN THERE AND THEIR PROFILE AND THAT COULD HAVE WORKED AND GOT DUSTED THEN YOU GOT TO GET ON TV.

THE POINT IS LET'S ASSUME SHE GETS DID ON T HAVE BEEN IN A HE IN THE MIDST OF COMMERCIALS BACK-TO-BACK-TO-BACK BACK TO BACK.

THEY US USING THE SWITCHER OR GLAZING OVER THE OPPORTUNITY TO MULL THE AM MAJOR WHERE SOME WOULD SAY IS A LITTLE WHILE AGO BEFORE NOW.

>> WELL SO WE REASON THE SEASON WHEN PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR WORLD TO THE VOTING EARLY ABSENTEE AND ARE MAKE THEIR DEAS I WILL SAY THAT TO YOUR POINT ABOUT BACK-TO-BACK-TO-BACK I SAT AT THE PAR WITH TV IN FRONT OF ME AND I DON'T NORMALLY WATCH A TON OF TVT.

THAT IS ALL I SAW BACK-TO-BACK AND IN THERE SOMEWHERE BECAUSE WE ARE LANDING.

THEN, THE BALLOT PROPOSALS WHERE I EXAMINING TO EATP A LOT OF THEIR TIME.

THEY CERTAINLY I DO THINK THAT CERTAINLY TV CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE BUT IT HAS GOT TO HAPPEN TO THAT POINT YESTERDAY AND TODAY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THE NEWS CONFERENCE ON THE SEX GENDER ISSUE IN THE SCHOOLS ARE CALLING FOR THE STATE'S SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT TO STEP DOWN.

YEAH.

YEAH.

>> YEAH.

YEAH.

THAT PUSHING THE IDEA THAT AND STRUCTURES ARE HELPING STUDENTS YOU KNOW, MAKE DECISIONS TO RADICAL, RADICAL PEOPLE.

RADICAL PEOPLE IN THE SCHOOLS.

THEY ARE RUNNING THE SCHOOLS AND PUSHING KIDS INTO MAKING GENDER CHANGE DECISIONS AND WITHOUT PARENTS KNOWING.

YEAH.

ALL OF THAT.

AND I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW IS FIRES UP A CERTAIN ALMOST OF THE BASE THIS ARE ALREADY ANGRY ABOUT YOU KNOW, THE SOCIAL WARS AND ABORTION AND WHAT NOT.

BUT FOR YOU, YOU KNOW, THOSE, THOSE 20% OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE KIDS CAN IN SCHOOLS WHO HAVE RELATIONSHIPS WITH TEACHERS AND ADMINISTRATORS AND SCHOOL SUPPORT STAFF AND LIBRARIANS WHO ARE A BIG TARGET FOR, YOU KNOW, MAKE YOU KNOW MATERIALS AVAILABLE, YOU FO HE, RELATIONSHIPS WITH THOSE YOU KNOW, WITH THOSE PEOPLE AS WELL.

AND AND ACCUSED THEM OF MORE OR LESS PEDDLING PORNOGRAPHY TO KIDS AND SAID THERE NEEDS TO BE END TO THAT AND, YOU KNOW, SHE WAS ASKED WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF PORNOGRAPHY THEN SHE PLAYED, YOU KNOW, SHE PLAYED RIGHT NIGHT.

WELL, WHICH IS BY THE WAY.

PROVIDING PORNOGRAPHY TO CHILDREN IS A CRIPPLE AND APPLIES TO TEACHERS AND LIBRARIANS AS MUCH AS ANYONE ELSE.

MAKE.

IT'S THE POINT ON ISSUE LAST WEEK WHICH WAS CRIME AND ONLY 3% OF THE PEOPLE IN THE POLL SAY CRIME IS IMPORTANT.

IF WE DID A POLL AND NOT UNDERPLAYING AS ISSUE BUT IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THAT ISSUE ATTRACTS THE AVERAGE PERSON, OK, WHO DOESN'T HAVE A KID IN SCHOOL, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT WAS GOOD SOUND BIT AND MADE IT, IT MADE THE NEWS.

>> YOU KNOW, THIS APPEARS TO BE A VERY ANIMATED ISSUE AMONG THE SEGMENT OF THE REPUBLICAN-BASE.

IT IS CLEARLY.

>> SHE ALREADY HAS.

>> SHE IS IMPASSIONED TUDOR DIXON IS IM PASSIONED ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

SHE TWEETED ABOUT THESE KIND OF GENDER AND SEX AND GA WHEREIN LESBIAN KIND OF THINGS, ALL THROUGH THE SPRING, IT ALMOST SEEMED AT ONE POINT TO BE THE SINGULAR FOCUS WITH SORB SO CLEAR SLY SOMETHING SHE CARES KEEP DEEPLY ABOUT.

IF I GUESS YOU FROM TO TRY TO SEIZE STRATEGY HERE.

IT IS SOME TYPE OF A PLAY TO SUBPUR BEEN A PARENTS.

>> PRECISELY.

THEY CAN PEAL AWAY THE DEMOCRATS AND OVERALL HAS THE FEEL OF DES PIR RIGS AND TRYING TO GET ANYTHING THEY CAN AND THROWING WHATEVER THEY CAN AGAINST THE WALL TO SEE WHAT STICKS AND AND YOU KNOW.

>> 24% OF THE PEOPLE SAID INFLATION WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE NEXT TO ABORTION OF 24% WHERE IS THE INFLATION STUFF?

SHE DOES HAVE.

YEAH.

I MEAN?

UT COMES UP.

>> IT IS NOT A SEPARATE PIECE.

IT IS NOT A SEPARATE PIECE.

HONESTLY.

THINK THAT SOME OF THE MORE APPEALING STANCES ARE GETTING LOST AMONG SOME OF THESE CULTURE ISSUES AND MORE EXTREME ONES, FOR INSTANCE IN EDUCATION SHE HAS A LOT TO TALK ABOUT WITH LEARNING LOSS TO THE PANDEMIC WHICH SHE IS PASSIONATE ABOUT AND A LOT TALK ABOUT WITH THE NEED TO RETURN FOCUS TO THINGS LIKE READING, WRITING, MATH AND PUTS IT ARHYTHMIA TK IS TOO OLD FASHIONED, BUT IN ANY CASE, YOU KNOW THOSE POINTS GET LOST WHEN THE HEAD LINE OFF OF EVERY STORY ON THE EVENT WANTS SUPER IN DENT FIRED OVER THIS CULTURE WAR ISSUE.

IF THEY WANTED TO TRY TO GO AFTER THOSE SUBURBAN PARENTS THEY COULD GO AFTER SOME OF THE GOVERNOR'S SOFTER POINTS WHICH ARE THINGS LIKE SHUTTING DOWN ATHLETICS DURING THE PANDEMIC.

THAT LEFT A LOT OF PEOPLE RAW.

EVEN SOME OF.

>> RIGHT.

RIGHT.

LEFT A LOT OF PEOPLE RAW INCLUDING THE GOVERNORS AND ALLIES WERE NOT HAP BIZ ABOUT HOW THAT WAS HAN DIDDED THEN THE LEARNING HOS I THINK EVERYBODY WHO HAS A KID IN SCHOOL RIGHT NOW TEARING THEIR HAIR OUT ABOUT THE STATE OF THINGS AND EDUCATION RIGHT NOW BUT CLEARLY THE MOST ANIMATED THESE ISSUES YOU ARE LOSING THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAYBE GO FOR SOMETHING THAT HAS APPEAL.

ALL RIGHT.

QUICKLY OK.

I CAN'T PUT A NUMBER TO IT.

AND IT COULD HAPPEN.

IT COULD HAPPEN.

THE MID 80'S AND 38 YEARS ONLY.

AND YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, AND A CONTROLLED SENATE AND A FIRE WALL BETWEEN WHATEVER AND MAY THROW OUT THERE IN OTHER BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.

ON THE SHOW LAST WEEK.

TALK ABOUT IT.

WE CAN GET TO 22 OR 23.

SOME MAY BE WHISTLING THROUGH THE GRAVE YARD BUT HER POINT IS.

SHE IS CONFIDENT THEY ARE GOING TO DO THIS.

WELL, LOOK.

IF THIS REALLY HAPPENS WHERE GOVERNOR WHITMORE WINS BY 10 POINTS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THEN YOU GOT JOCELYN BENSON APPEAR TO BE PULLING A WAY T. THAT IS A HUGE BLUE BOLDER ROLL DOG IN THE HILL WITHOUT PROTECTION FOR CANDIDATES FOR THE LEGISLATURE AND I MENTIONED DEFYING GRAVITY BEFORE.

THAT'S A LOT OF GRAVE TY TO DEFY IN THESE PLACES THEN SENATE APPEARS TO BE A LEDGE MATE JUNK BILLION AND HARD FOR ME TO PICTURE.

IT IS HARD WIRED TO THINK THE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO KROLL THE SENATE AND DEMOCRATS HAVE YOU KNOW, TALKED BIG BEFORE ABOUT THINGS DYES GET CONTROL.

>> EVERY MINORITY LEADER HAS COME ON THIS SHOW IN THE ELECTION CYCLE AND REPEATED.

OH, YEAH.

WE GOT A CHANCE.

EVERYBODY KNOWS IT IS NOT TRUE.

IF YOU WERE OPT MUST ANOTHER DEMOCRAT LOOKING REALLY GOOD RIGHT NOW.

THEY GOT GOOD CANDIDATES ACROSS THE BOAR THEN THE NEW MAPS WAS THE BIG PROBLEM FOR THE REPUBLICANS THEN PAST.

THE REB REPUBLICANS HAVE DRAWN THE LOONS TO HELP THEM.

NOW TOW THOSE LAST AND WE'LL KEEP AN EYE ON THIS WELCOME TO OFF THE RECORD.

NICE SEE YOU GAIN.

AM DOING GREAT.

AND I EXPECTED A DISSERTATION ON TERM LIMITS THEN I GOT FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE.

YOU DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT TERM THERE LIMITS.

WHY?

WHY ARE YOU SMILING?

WELL THE SECOND ADD TALKS THAT AND FIT TOGETHER.

AND WE ARE OUT THE AD CAMPAIGN.

LISTEN THIS PROPOSAL HAS TWO ELEMENTS BOTH OF THEM I THINK HELPED RESTORE TRUST IN GOVERNMENT AND THE FIRST AS YOU REFERENCED IN THE AD IS REQUIRING PERSONAL FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE AND INCLUDE THE GOVERNOR AND ATTORNEY GENERAL.

AND MICHIGAN MY IS UNOF TWO IN THE COUNTRY THAT DOES NOT REQUIRE THE ELECTIVES TO DISCLOSE THEN THE SECOND PIECE IS REDUCING TERM LEM MITS FROM A TOTAL OF 14 YEARS TO 12 SO INSTEAD OF SIX IN THE HOS AND EIGHT IN THE SENATE.

WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO SERVE 12 IN EITHER CHAMBER AND WHATEVER COMBINATION BUT REDUCING THE TOTAL NUMBER OF YEARS THAT THEY COULD SERVE.

DOES IT ALLOW AND RULE OUT THE LIFETIME BAN ON TERM LIMIT OS SO A FORMER LAWMAKER COULD COME BACK DOES IT.

WELL IN THEORY, YEAH.

SOMEBODY WHO ONLY SERVED SAY SIX YEARS IN THE STATE HOUSE COULD SERVE SIX MORE THEY COULD SERVE FIGHT THEY IN WITH AD TO OK. >> WELL SEEMS LEAKS FROM THE PEEN GOING THE FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE PIECE HERE WAS THE SWEETENER.

WELL, MOST PEOPLE WOULD AGREE, IT IS LONG OVERDUE THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAVE THAT, BUT THE IDEA.

OF COMBINING FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE WITH THE TERM LIMITS PART WHICH IS A LITTLE BIT OF A HARDER SELL, THEN YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, THAT SEEMS TO BE WHY THE ADVERTISING IS EMPHASIZED IN THE FINANCIAL DISCLOSURES IS IT OUT?

IT IS SALEABLE PIECE TO THE PUBLIC?

>> WELL, BOTH OF THEM HAVE OVERAMMING SUPPORT IN THE POLLING THAT WE HAVE DONE.

AND AGAIN, THE WAY WE ARE STRUCTURED OUR ADS, WHEN YOU SEE THE SECOND AD YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHY THE FIRST AD FOCUSED ON PERSONAL FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE BUT THEN ACANE, THINK WE CAN ACRE, THERE IS HIGH LEVEL OF DISTRUST IN GOVERNMENT TODAY WE HAVE NEVER SEEN IN OUR LABS FRANKLY WHEN TERM LIMITS WAS IMPLEMENTED IN 1992 AND I THINK AS THESE TWO TWO TOGETHER WILL RESTORE PEOPLE'S CONFIDENCE AND SERVING THEM AND NOT THEMSELVES.

PEAKING OF THAT.

HOW DID YOU LAND ON 12 YEARS?

YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS LIKE IF YOU ASKED PEOPLE IN LANSING THREE TO FIVE YEARS AGO, AND I AM TALKING ABOUT LONG-TIME LANSING INSIDERS, THE LIKES OF WHICH WE TALK TO ON OCCASION THEY WOULD HAVE ADVOCATED FOR EXPANDING THE NUMBER OF YEARS ALONG WITH THE FLEXIBILITY IN THE CHAMBERS.

WAS IT FELT THAT MORE PEOPLE WOULD GO FOR THIS IF WE ALSO TIGHTENED THAT NUMBER OF YEARS BAY LITTLE BIT?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK IT WAS PROBABLY MORE SIMPLICITY THING.

YOU KNOW THREE TERMS IN THE SENATE IF YOU WANTED TO OR SIX TERMS IN THE HOUSE.

YOU KNOW INI THINK REALLY AT THE EBB OF THE DAY, CRE AGENT CONTINUITY IN LEADERSHIP, YOU OH, IN THE HOUSE, WE HAVE SPEAKERS, THAT TEND TO BECOME SPEAKER AFTER FOUR YEARS AND IT WOULD BE NICE THEY HAD SIX OR EIGHT YEARS OF EXPENSE, HEN, TO BE MORE EXPERIENCED STEWARDS OF THE HOUSE, I KNOW WHEN I LIVED IN CALIFORNIA WHEN TERM ALMOST MITS WAS FIRST IMPLEMENTED THE FIRST TERM LIMIT LEM LAY TURE IF YOU WILL, THEOSTAT ASSEMBLY DID NOT HAVE THE FIRST COMMITTEE HEARINGS UNTIL JUNE BUS THE INCOMING SPEAKER DID NOT KNOW HOW TO ORG NOZ THE COMMITTEES SO I THINK, CREATING ALOGICAL MORE EXPENSE WAS PART OF THE GOAL SOL WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT REALLY UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS AND THE CHAMBER AND HOW TO MANAGE IT WELL.

>> SO AND THAT CONTINUITY AND THAT EXPERIENCE AND ONE CHAMBER IT SEEMS IS SORT OF THE CENTRAL ELEMENT OF WHAT YOU WERE GETTING AT ACTUALLY CREATING A MORE EXPERIENCED LEGISLATURE, BUT YOU WERE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO PULL THAT OFF WITHOUT CREATING SOMETHING THAT WOULD ALSO, YOU KNOW,ING THE POLL POLLSES SO THE OVERALL SMALLER, YOU KNOW, A FEWER YEARS AND THE FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE, I HEAP, THAT WAS THE NEEDLE YOU WERE TRYING TO THREAD, CORRECT?

>> WELL, YEAH.

OBVIOUSLY, YOU WERE TRYING TO PUT TOGETHER A PACKAGE THAT PEOPLE FIND APPEALING AND THEY DO FIND ELIMINATING POLITICIAN TIME IN OFFICE VERY APPEALING JUST AS THEY DID 30 YEARS AGO AND PASSED TERM LIMITS IN THE FIRST PLACE FM HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU ABOUT THE FUTURE TOO OF THE >> WELL, THERE IS DEFINITELY THINGS TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT.

YOU KNOW?

I HAVE NEVER SOON THE PARTY MORE FRACTURED THAN IT IS.

YOU KNOW?

CERTAINLY OVER HISTORY, WE HAVE SEEN NATIONALISTS AND KIND OF MOVEMENTS AND NOT SO PERSONALITY DRIVEN, CERTAINLY MICHIGAN IS MORE POPULOUS STATE THAN MANY OTHER STATE AND LOOK AT HOW FORGE WALLACE DID WHEN HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT OR JESSE JACKSON OR PAT ROB PIN SON THEN THE RIGHT AND THE LEFT AND WE HAD A FAIRLY POPULAR ELEMENT WITHIN THE MICHIGAN AND YOU KNOW, WELL, I THINK WHAT HAPPENS IN THIS CYCLE AND YOU KNOW, WHETHER WE WIN OR LOSE AND THE MARGINS BAY WHICH WE WIN OR LOSE WILL GO A LONG WAY TO DETERMINING WHAT THE PARTY LABS LIKEN THE NEXT TWO, FOUR, SIX YEAR, PRESIDENT TRUMP RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT IN 2024 OBVIOUSLY WOULD ADD ANOTHER ELEMENT AND BUT IF WE DO LOSE, AND WE LOSE BAY LARGE MARGIN AS A PARTY WE HAVE TO DO A LITTLE SELF-EXAMINATION OF WHICH DIRECTION WE ARE GOING TO GO AND I THINK EVERYONE WHETHER YOU ARE A GRASS ROOTS ACTIVISTS WHO LOVES DONALD TRUMP ARE SOMEONE IN THE ESTABLISHMENT THAT CARS ABOUT WOMEN AND GOVERNMENT AND GOOD STEWARTSHIP OF THE STATE WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT IF YOU WE ARE VIABLE PARTY WE CANNOT DO THAN THE MINORITY.

>> CAN FRACTURED PEARS WIN ELECTIONSES?

>> WELL, THEY HAVE BEEN DICT FOR A LONG TYPE.

YOU NO HE?

I THINK PRIOR TO MAYBE THE TRUMP REALIGNMENT OF THE TRADITIONAL COALITIONS, I FELT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS A PARTY NOT UNITED BY A COMMON PHILOSOPHY OTHER THAN THEY DON'T FEEL REPRESENTED BY REPUBLICANS.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT DEMO GRAPHICALLY, POLISH AUTOWORKER IN DETROIT, A BLACK SHARECROPPER INIALLE AND IN S SAN REASONS HAE LITTLE IN COMMON OTHER THAN THEY MAY NOT FEEL REPRESENTED THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, AND SO I WOULD ARGUE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS BEEN A FRACTURED COALITION THAT HAS BEEN ABLE TO WIN ELECTIONS AND REALLY I THINK DEPENDS ON WHAT THE ISSUES ARE THAT ARE MOST IMPORTANT TO THE VOTERS THEN IN WHICH PARTY THEY THINK IS GOING TO BEST ADDRESS THOSE SHALL ISSUE US.

YOU MENTIONED THAT A BIG LOSS WOULD FORCE A RECKONING OF SORES I THINK PEOPLE THOUGHT WOULD HAPPEN IN 2020 BUT THE METHOD WAS MORE TO DENY THE LOSS HAD OCCURRED CERTAINLY AMONG SOME FACTIONS OF THE PARTY AND BARBINGTON POST RECENTLY ASKED TUDOR DIXON AND WOULD NOT SAY WHETHER SHE ACCEPT THE RESULTS OF THE ELECTION HERE IN MICHIGAN, DO YOU THINK THAT REPUBLICANS ARE READY TO SORT OF FACE THE MUSIC IF THEY DO SEE THOSE KIND OF LOSSES?

WILL IT BE ANOTHER CYCLE OF POTENTIAL DENIAL AND DEFLECTION?

>> I DO.

I DO.

IF WE ARE OUT OF POWER.

I THINK EVERYBODY IS GOING TO SOBER UT UP A LITTLE BIT AND TAKE A LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, HOW WE MOVE FORWARD AND IF WE ARE GOING TO BE RELEVANT.

YOU NO NEZ SCREAMING INTO THE WIND IS NOT GOING TO GET US FAR T. WE GOT TO BE IN A POSITION TO ACTUALLY AFFECT POLICY.

THINK ONE OF THE REASONS THAT YOU KNOW, MICHIGAN HAS BE HALVED THE WAY IT HAS SINCE 2020 IS OVER THE FOUR YEARS OF TRUMP PRESIDENCY, THE MICHIGAN REPUBLICAN HIERARCHY WAS DEMOLISHED.

WE LOST GOVERNOR, ATTORNEY GENERAL, SECRETARY OF TATE, WE LOST SUPREME COW, WE LOST FIVE NATE SEAT, FIVE HOUSE SEAT, HE KNOW?

WE LOST COUNTY EXECUTIVES SO THERE IS NOT A PARTY LEADER, A GOVERNOR SOMEBODY LIKE THAT THAT CAN LEAD THE PARTY AND SO I SAID, IT HAS BEEN A LITTLE BT OF A WASTELAND AND UNWHICH DONALD TRUMPS A BEEN ABLE TO RIDE UNFETTERED IN YOU SAW BRIAN KEMP AND YOU KNOW, KIND OF STAND UP AND LEAD THE PARTY THERE, AND DOUG DUESIAN ARIZONA THE SAME THING.

BUT HERE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE ANY PARTY STRONG MAN OR STRONGWOMAN TOLL LEAD US AND I THINK, AFTER THIS ELECTION, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHO BECOMES THE LEADER WITHIN MICHIGAN AND WHAT THE PATH FORWARD IS.

>> WELL, IN THAT CASE, WHAT DOES AN UNFRACTURED REPUBLICAN COALITION LOOK LIKE AND WHO OR WHAT KIND OF A PERSON IS WAITING IN THE WINGS TO LEAD IT?

>> WELL, THAT IS VERY GOOD QUESTION, RICK.

>> THAT IS WHY I ASKED.

>> ONE OF THE TRUST RATIONS I HAVE WITH THE FOCUS ON 2020 IS WE ARE CROWDING OUT THE ABILITY TO TALK, SHOES YOU REFERENCED IN THE EARLY SEGMENT.

INFLATION.

I MEAN, WHEN WITH YOU BE LOOK AT OUR COALITION AND BOTH PARTIES CAN HE ALITION CARVE WIDE AND OF SHORES BUT YOU TRY TO FOON THE ONES THAT HAVE THE MOST COMMON GROUP AN REPUBLICANS SHOULD ARE THE WIND AT OUR BACKS.

WE DID HAVE THE WIND AT OUR BACKS BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMY.

WE HAVE THE HIGHEST INFLATION IN 40 YEARS THE HIGHEST GAS PRICE IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

WE ARE SEEING THINGS LIKE SHORTAGES IN BABY FOOD THAT WE NEVER IMAGINE WOULD HAPPEN IN AMERICA SO WE HAVE ALL OF THESE SHORES THAT NO MATTER WHAT YOUR COALITION AFILL AS IS WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WE CAN AGREE, THIS IS A VERY BIG ISSUE THAT AFFECTS ALL OF THE LIVES AND WHERE WE SHOULD ALL BE FOCUSED AND I THINK IF WE WERE DOING THAT HE WOULD BE IN MUCH BETTER POSITION THAN WE ARE RIGHT NOW.

>> SO YOU WERE IN THE MICHIGAN REPUBLICAN.

YOU WERE ON THE STAFF IN THE MICHIGAN REPUBLICAN PARTY, OF COURSE, AT THE START OF THIS TWO-YEAR CYCLE.

WHERES DO THE PARTY APPARATUS ITSELF GO FORWARD FROM HERE.

RON, I THINK, A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, HAS BEEN TAKE AND STEP BACK, IT HAS BEEN OTHERS LIKE MICHELLE, THE CO CHAIR, THE FACE OF THE PARTY, AND FOR THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF AND BUT THEN WHAT HAPPENS NEXT YEAR.

RON, WHY HE SAID HE WILL NOT REASON AWAY.

YOU GOT MADDOX OUT THERE AND RYAN KELLY WHO HINTED HE WOULD RUN.

BUT YOU KNOW, YOU GOT THAT KIND OF DeVOS WING OF THE PARTY THAT SORT OF STOOD BACK AND SAID SEE WHAT HAPPENS MAYBE WE MAKE A MOVE THEN YOU GOT THE PRECINCT DELEGATES WHO ARE CONSERVATIVE?

>> YEAH.

WELL, THAT IS GOING TO BE THE BIG QUESTION.

WHO DOES LEAD THE PARTY AS CHAIR?

NEXT YEAR?

YOU KNOW, I WORKED ALL AROUND THE NATION AND THE MICHIGAN REPUBLICAN HISTORICALLY AND FOR MANY DECADES HAS BEEN ONE OF THE MOST DEFECTIVE STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY ORGANIZATIONS IN THE COUNTRY.

HANDS DOWN.

THINK IN THE TOP FIVE.

SO ORG NI ZASSALLY IT HAS BEEN A VERY WELL RUN AND EFFECTIVE ORGANIZATION.

WILL THE NEXT LEADER BE SOMEBODY THAT CAN BRING THE PARTY TOGETHER AND CAN RAISED THE MONEY?

I THINK YOU KNOW, PART OF THE REASON THAT RON WISER WAS CHOSEN WAS HIS FUND-RAISING PROULESS AND THAT IS A VERY SHALL IF NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT FUNCTION OF THE PARTY, IS CHANNELING THE RESOURCE.

>> VERY QUICKLY I GOT TO INTERRUPT IF YOUR FATHER WAS ALIVE TODAY?

WOULD HE BE SK THE STOMACH OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE SMARTER IT FINS NY YOU ASK THAT.

I THINK ABOUT A LOT.

I CAN WALK DOWN WITH THE PATH EITHER WAY.

I WILL TEN TO THINK THAT HE WOULD.

BUT HE HAS BEEN THROUGHOUT HIS LIFE HE WAS SUCH AND LOYAL REPUBLICAN THAT WE WOULD HAVE VOTE FOR JUST ABOUT ANY REPUBLICAN OVER THE DEMOCRAT.

>> THANKS.

GOOD TO HE SUE.

KEEP US POSTED ON PROP ONE AND THANS TO THE GREAT PANEL.

EVERYBODY HAVE A NICE WEEKEND.

SEE YOU NEXT WEEK FOR MORE OFF THE RECORD.

PRODUCTION IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY: A FULL SERVICE STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS AGENCY, PARTNERING WITH CLIENTS THROUGH PUBLIC RELATION, DIGITAL MARKETING AND PUBLIC POLICY ENGAGEMENT.

LEARN MORE ON-LINE.

FORMER OFF THE RECORD VISIT WKAR.

ORG.

MICHIGAN PUBLIC TELEVISION STATIONS HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE PRODUCTION COSTS OF OFF THE RECORD.