WELCOME BACK OUR GUEST IS REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR CAPTAIN MIKE BROWN WITH THE MICHIGAN STATE POLICE.

OUR LEAD STORY AT KUMBAYA BUDGET MOMENT IN LANSING.

70 BILLION OF YOUR TAX DOLLARS GOING TO BE SPENT.

ON OTR PANEL, RICK PLUTA, LAUREN GIBBONS AND CHUCK STOKES.

SITTING IN AS WE GET THE STORY "OFF THE RECORD."

>> Announcer: PRODUCTION OF "OFF THE RECORD"IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE FOLLOWING.

BUSINESS LEADERS FROM MICHIGAN HAS A STRATEGIC PLAN TO MAKE MICHIGAN A TOP TEN STATE IN THE NATION FOR JOBS, PERSONAL INCOME AND A HEALTHY ECONOMY.

LEARN MORE AT MICHIGAN'S ROAD TO TOP TEN.COM.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND WELCOME TO THIS MONSOON EDITION OF "OFF THE RECORD."

I HOPE IT'S GETTING BACK TO NORMAL WHERE YOU LIVE THIS WEEKEND.

THANKS FOR TUNING IN AND THANKS TO OUR PANELISTS, RICK PLUTA AND LAUREN GIBBONS AND CHUCK STOKES AND LATER ON, CAPTAIN MIKE BROWN, RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE BUDGET.

THIS WAS A BIGGY THIS WEEK AND 70 BILLION OF YOUR TAX DOLLARS -- THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY GOING TO BE SPENT.

LET'S SEE WHERE IT'S GOING.

THE GOVERNOR OFFERED HER NEW BUDGET WHEN PART OF THE ECONOMY WAS CLOSED DUE TO HER COVID POLICIES AND REPUBLICANS WERE LIVID.

IN NO MOOD TO NEGOTIATE.

IN A WORD, IT WAS UGLY.

>> UNLESS WE START REOPENING, I'M NOT GOING TO START HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH THE GOVERNOR.

>> THE BUDGET'S OWN GUY HOPED THE ANGRY REPUBLICANS WOULD EVENTUALLY BACK OFF.

>> I'M GOING TO TRY AND BE OPTIMISTIC.

>> THAT OPTIMISM EVENTUALLY PAID OFFER.

THE SENATE UNANIMOUSLY PASSED THE NEW BUDGET AND THE HOUSE DID IT TODAY.

>> A MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS ELECTED IN SERVING HAVING VOTED, IS ADOPTED.HE CONFERENCE REPORT- >> THERE'S 7.7 MILLION FOR MORE STATE TROOPERS, 7.3 MILLION FOR MORE PRISON GUARDS, 40 MILLION FOR THE POPULAR PURE MICHIGAN AD CAMPAIGN, 10 MILLION DOLLARS TO REPLACE LEAD PIPES IN BENTON HARBOUR AND 1.5 BILLION WITH A "B" FOR CHILD CARE.

>> ENABLING NEARLY A HUNDRED THOUSAND, 100,000 -- OHHER KIDS TO ENROLL IN THE CHILD DEVELOPMENT AND CARE PROGRAM.

IT WILL LOWER THE COST OF CHILD CARE FOR SO MANY FAMILIES.

>> FOR NURSING HOME, MENTAL HEALTH AND OTHER DIRECT CARE WORKERS THERE'S A $2.35 AN HOUR PAY BOOST.

>> THESE PROFESSIONALS PUT THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE TO SAVE THE REST OF US.

THEY DESERVE A FAIR WAGE FOR SHOULDERING THE WEIGHT OF OUR WORLD.

>> THE GOVERNOR WILL PROBABLY VETO SOME OF THESE ITEMS BUT OVERALL, WITH NO GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN AND A NEW BUDGET, SHE'S PLEASED.

>> THIS BUDGET IS A TESTAMENT TO WHAT WE ARE CAPABLE OF DOING WHEN WE WORK TOGETHER.

LET'S CONTINUE IN THAT SPIRIT OF COLLABORATION AND PUT THE BILLIONS OF FEDERAL DOLLARS WE HAVE TO WORK.

>> GIVEN THE DISDAIN THAT HE HAD FOR THE GOVERNOR AT THE OPENING OF THE BUDGET PROCESS, REPRESENTATIVE ALBERT WAS SINGING A DIFFERENT TUNE TODAY.

>> HAVING A FULLY NEGOTIATED BUDGET SEEMED IMPOSSIBLE NOT LONG AGO.

NOW HERE WE ARE A BUDGET AGREEMENT.

IF THAT DOES NOT STRENGTHEN ONE'S FAITH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL.

>> A RARE KUMBAYA BIPARTISAN MOMENT IN A DEEPLY DIVIDED POLITICAL CLIMATE IN THIS TOWN.

THE 70 BILLION DOLLAR STATE BUDGET, YOUR TAX DOLLARS, NOW ON THE WAY TO THE GOVERNOR.

SO LAUREN, WHAT WAS YOUR LEAD PARAGRAPH OUT OF THIS HUGE STORY THIS WEEK?

>> I THINK JUST THE FACT THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO COME TOGETHER ON THIS AND, YOU KNOW, RELATIVELY WITHOUT CONTROVERSY.

AS YOU ALLUDED TO IN THAT SEGMENT, THERE ARE AN IF YOU THINGS THAT ARE LIKELY TO BE STICKING POINTS.

I THINK ONE BOILER PLATE ITEMS IN TERMS OF THE VACCINE MANDATES AND ENFORCING MASKS THAT REPUBLICANS INCLUDED SOME LANGUAGE TO TRY AND LIMIT THAT, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS AS THOUGH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, YOU KNOW, WERE PRETTY AMICABLE TOWARDS THE END HERE, AND THIS HAS BEEN A LENGTHY AND OFTEN CONTENTIOUS BUDGET PROCESS.

WE'RE NOW AT THE POINT WHERE, YOU KNOW, THIS MONEY IS GOING TO GET TO THIS CRISIS.

THE FISCAL YEAR CAN START -- CAN START WITHOUT ANY LAST-MINUTE NEGOTIATIONS.

WE'RE ALMOST A WEEK AHEAD OF SCHEDULE HERE.

SO I THINK OVERALL, THE BIG STORY IS JUST THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS RELATIVELY NOT CONTROVERSIAL.

>> CHUCK, IT'S EASY TO MAKE AGREEMENTS WHEN YOU GOT A POT OF GOLD THAT YOU'RE JUST DECIDING WHERE IT GOES, RIGHT?

>> YOU'RE RIGHT, TIM.

I THINK LAUREN SUMMED IT UP REALLY WELL, AND, YOU KNOW, WE ALWAYS SAY A BILLION HERE, A BILLION THERE, AND PRETTY SOON WE'RE STARTING TO TALK ABOUT REAL MONEY.

THERE'S A BOATLOAD OF MONEY IN THIS, AND A LOT OF THAT COMES IN AS SOME OF THE PANDEMIC RELIEF MONEY AS WELL.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- ONE SIZE BUDGET DOESN'T FIT EVERYBODY AND ALL, BUT THIS BUDGET COVERS A LOT OF GROUND.

IT GETS A LOT OF THINGS IN THAT THE GOVERNOR CAMPAIGNED ON A FEW YEARS AGO THAT SHE WANTS.

SO SHE GETS HER INFRASTRUCTURE MONEY.

SHE GETS THE MONEY FOR EDUCATION.

THE HIGHER ED PEOPLE IN THE STATE, THEY GET A BOOST OF MONEY.

SHE WAS ABLE TO DEAL WITH THE FIRST PART OF THE BUDGET BACK IN JULY WHEN SHE GOT THE MONEY TO THE K12 SCHOOLS, SO SO FAR, SHE'S DOING PRETTY WELL.

SHE'S NOT QUITE AT THE FINISH LINE YET AS YOU ALL SAID.

THERE MIGHT BE SOME VETOS THAT SHE DOES RIGHT AT THE LAST SECOND, A FEW THINGS SHE DOESN'T LIKE IN TERMS OF WORDING, PARTICULARLY ON THE VACCINE, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE BOTH SIDES ARE PRETTY HAPPY AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT.

>> RICK, THERE SEEMED TO BE SOME CONFUSION AS TO WHETHER THE GOVERNOR WAS ON BOARD WITH THIS LANGUAGE OR NOT, AND ALL OF US, I'M SURE, AROUND THIS TABLE CONCLUDED THERE WAS NO WAY SHE WAS GOING TO TAKE ANY OF THESE MANDATES OFF THE TABLE, RUNNING LANGUAGE NOTWITHSTANDING, RIGHT?

>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE VACCINE MANDATE BOILER PLATE, RIGHT?

>> RIGHT.

YES.

>> OKAY.

YEAH.

AND I THINK IT WAS, YOU KNOW, AN AREA WHERE THEY AGREED THEY COULD DISAGREE SO REPUBLICANS GOT TO PUT IT IN THE BUDGET.

SHE'S GOING TO GET TO VETO IT.

AND BOTH SIDES CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT THE OTHER.

BUT, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE PROCESS, THERE IS STILL A BUDGET AND THOSE FIGHTS CAN REMAIN FOR ANOTHER DAY.

THE FACT THAT IT'S BOILER PLATE IN THE BUDGET DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE WON'T BE A STAND ALONE BILL TO ARGUE ABOUT IN THE FUTURE.

>> I GUESS ONE QUESTION THAT REMAINS, LAUREN, IS THAT A LOT OF THIS IS FEDERAL MONEY, 1.2 BILLION, IF MY NUMBERS ARE CORRECT.

IT'S ONE-TIME MONEY.

WHAT HAPPENS NEXT YEAR FOR ALL THESE FOLKS THAT ARE SAYING, WOW, THIS IS GREAT.

WE GOT A WHOLE BUNCH OF MONEY FROM THE STATE.

WHAT ABOUT NEXT YEAR WHEN THE FEDERAL BUCKS AREN'T THERE.

IS THAT A PROBLEM?

">> I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT EVERYONE IN THE ROOM IS STARTING TO PREPARE FOR.

THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF FEDERAL DOLLARS IN UNSPENT SURPLUS FROM STATE TAX REVENUE THAT DIDN'T GET PUT INTO THIS BUDGET.

THERE'S A LOT OF MONEY STILL ON THE TABLE, SO I THINK THE IDEA WAS WITH THIS ONE-TIME FUNDING NOT TO GIVE A BOOST WHERE THEY FELT IT WAS NECESSARY BUT I THINK EVERYONE INVOLVED WAS TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE ONE-TIME FUNDING WAS APPROPRATE, THEY COULD USE THAT, BUT THEN THERE IS STILL QUITE A BIT OF MONEY THAT'S LEFT UNALLOCATED, SO AS FUTURE BUDGET COME UP, IT'S NOT QUITE THE DROP-OFF IT MAY OTHERWISE HAVE BEEN.

YOU KNOW, THEY CAN KIND OF EASE BACK INTO NORMAL TIMES.

>> PERHAPS THE BEST EXAMPLE OF THAT WAS THE 4% POP THAT THE UNIVERSITIES GOT.

THIS WAS ONE-TIME MONEY.

IT DID NOT GO INTO THEIR OVERALL FUNDING BASE.

THAT BASE WENT UP BY 1%.

SO AFTER THIS IS 4%.

LOOK, IT THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE IT AND RUN WITH IT AND WORRY ABOUT IT DOWN THE ROAD.

Mr. MRU PLUTA, YOU'VE BEEN UP ON MAKINAW ISLAND.

HOW MUCH FUDGE DID YOU EAT?

>> VERY LITTLE AND GOT TO BED RELATIVELY EARLY.

>> GOODNESS GRACIOUS, YOU DIDN'T GO TO ALL THE PARTIES?

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY THERE WERE, WHICH HELPS ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

BUT I MEAN, IT WAS A SMALLER MAKINAW CONFERENCE.

IT WAS A MORE DISTANCED MAKINAW CONFERENCE.

YOU KNOW, THAT BEING A RELATIVE THING TO OTHER CONFERENCES.

AND IT WAS A CONFERENCE THAT DID NOT HAVE A LOT OF EFFORTS AT DEAL MAKING ON THE ISLAND BECAUSE THE REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP WAS LARGELY ABSENT.

>> WHAT WAS THE LEAD STORY, IF THERE WAS ONE?

>> I THINK THAT PROBABLY THE LEAD WAS -- I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A LEAD -- BUT, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR LARGELY HAD THE ISLAND TO HERSELF, AT LEAST ON THE POLITICAL STAGE.

AND SHE MADE A PLEA FOR, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD AMOUNT TO POST COVID RECONSTRUCTION THAT I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED THAT LATER ON WE DON'T SEE ELEMENTS OF THAT SPEECH EE MERGE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRIP.

>> THE ONLY THING MISSING FROM THAT SPEECH WAS VOTE FOR ME, RIGHT?

>> I THINK THAT'S NOT AN UNFAIR ASSESSMENT.

>> CHUCK, THE GOVERNOR DIDN'T REALLY DEEPLY GET INTO THE COVID THING AT ALL.

IT WAS SORT OF LIKE IT WAS THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM, BUT SINCE SHE'S A DEMOCRAT, SHE IGNORED IT?

>> WELL, YOU'RE RIGHT.

AND I HEARD CHARLIE LANGTON SAY, WHO WAS ALSO UP ON THE ISLAND, THAT VACCINES AND MASKS DIDN'T EVEN COME UP ON THE ISLAND, THAT THAT WASN'T PART OF THE CONVERSATION.

THEY WERE TALKING MORE ABOUT EDUCATION AND CHILD CARE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND I THINK A REALLY BIG THEME -- I WASN'T THERE THIS YEAR -- BUT I TALKED TO WRIGHT LASSITER AND SANDY BERILO BEFORE THE CONFERENCE AND WRIGHT LASSITER WAS INISTENT HE WANTED DIVERSITY TO BE A MAJOR THEME THROUGHOUT THIS CONFERENCE AND WE SAW A LOT OF DIVERSITY, DIVERSITY OF PEOPLE OF COLOUR, WOMEN, ENTREPRENEURSHIP, NEW YOUNG VOICES COMING UP IN THE LEADERSHIP REALMS.

THAT WAS A BIG PART OF THIS.

AND I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR THAT THEME FROM THE GOVERNOR AS SHE GOES INTO THE CAMPAIGN YEAR AS WELL.

AND THEN KEEP IN MIND, ALTHOUGH YOU MAY NOT HAVE THAT PANDEMIC MONEY COMING IN NEXT YEAR, WHAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS HOPING THAT THEY WILL HAVE IS ALL OF THAT INFRASTRUCTURE BILL PASSED AND THAT'S NEW INFRASTRUCTURE MONEY THAT'S GOING TO COME INTO THE STATE AND GOES BACK INTO SOMETHING WE ALL HEARD ELIZABETH WITMER TALK ABOUT, FIX THE DAMN ROADS.

SHE MAY HAVE MORE MONEY TO FIX THE ROADS BUT WE'LL SEE.

>> LAUREN, THERE WAS SOME POLLING DATA OUT THIS WEEK ABOUT THE GOVERNOR AND THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

THAT?OU WRITE ANYTHING ABOUT - >> YEAH, I SAW IT.

I WAS FOCUSED ON A FEW OTHER THINGS.

YEAH, I DID SEE IT, AND I THINK AT THIS STAGE, IT IS REALLY INTERESTING TO KIND OF SEE -- WHAT'S COMING OUT RIGHT NOW, IT IS PRETTY EARLY IN THE CYCLE, I THINK.

WE STILL HAVE MORE THAN A YEAR TO GO, SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT COULD HAPPEN.

I THINK WHAT CHUCK ALLUDED TO, YOU KNOW, IF THE GOVERNOR CAN GET A FEW MORE WINS ON SOME OF HER PREVIOUS CAMPAIGN PROMISES, HER NUMBERS WOULD GO UP, BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK COVID-19 IS STILL PRETTY FRESH IN THE MINDS OF A LOT OF VOTERS, SO THERE'S THE POSSIBILITY FOR REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES TO MAKE INROADS THERE.

>> FASCINATING THING ABOUT THE POLLING THAT I SAW THAT CAME OUT OF THE CHAMBER SURVEY WAS THE NEW VOTING SUBCATEGORY THAT WE ARE NOW POLLING.

RICK, VACCINATED AND UNVACCINATED.

WOW.

I MEAN, WE'VE NEVER ASKED THAT QUESTION BEFORE.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS A HUGE NEW FIND AND A HUGE NEW "X" FACTOR IN THIS RACE FOR GOVERNOR, IS IT NOT?

>> OH, IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION, AND IT'S AN INTERESTING ELEMENT AND I THINK LAUREN TOUCHED ON THIS IS THE ELECTION IS STILL A YEAR AWAY.

RIGHT NOW, WE'RE OBSESSED WITH COVID RECOVERY AND SAFELY REOPENING AND VACCINATION, OF COURSE, IS A KEY PART OF THAT.

WILL THAT BE A STILL BIG FACTOR A YEAR FROM NOW?

IT SEEMS LIKE IT SHOULD BE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, CONSIDERING THE YEAR THAT WE'VE JUST HAD, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO WONDER, WHAT IS THE YEAR THAT'S GOING -- WHAT ARE WE GOING TO SEE OVER THE NEXT TWELVE MONTHS THAT WILL SUDDENLY POP UP AS ANOTHER SIGNIFICANT FACTOR ALONG WITH, YOU KNOW, DAM INFRASTRUCTURE, WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH ROADS AND FLOODING AND WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO VIS-A-VIS SCHOOLS, BUSINESSES AND MANDATES, YOU KNOW, AS WE EXIT THE COVID EMERGENCY.

>> BEFORE HE WITH CALL IN OUR GUESTS, JUST ONE RIBBON ON TOP OF THIS VACCINATED STORY, THE GOVERNOR GOT 63% APPROVAL FROM EVERYBODY THAT WAS VACCINATED AND IF YOU PEEL THOSE NUMBERS BACK, IT'S THAT ABSOLUTE COALITION THAT SHE NEEDS TO WIN THE GOVERNORSHIP.

SENIOR CITIZENS ARE DEEPLY ON BOARD WITH HER ON VACCINATION.

COLLEGE EDUCATED PEOPLE ON BOARD.

SUBURBAN SUBURBAN SUBURBANITE WOMEN ON BOARD.

THAT'S THE COALITION THEY NEED.

THAT'S NOT A PRECURSOR SHE'S GOING TO WIN.

IF YOU HAD A CHOICE OF PEOPLE VOTING FOR YOU VACCINATED OR UNVACCINATED, YOU'D WANT THE VACCINATED BECAUSE THERE'S MORE OF THEM THAN THERE ARE THE OTHER GUYS.

FAIR CONCLUSION, CHUCK, OR NOT?

>> I THINK THAT'S A VERY FAIR CONCLUSION.

I THINK YOU SUMMED IT UP VERY, VERY WELL, AND EVEN THOUGH THE GOVERNOR HAS NOT INSTITUTED ANY KIND OF VACCINE MANDATE, WHICH A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE -- A LOT OF DEMOCRATS ARE CALLING FOR HER TO DO, EVEN THE SECRETARY OF EDUCATION WAS JUST IN TOWN ASKING HER AND OTHER GOVERNORS TO DO THE SAME THING -- SHE'S NOT DOING THAT.

IT'S SORT OF THAT WINK WINK, NOD NOD IN POLITICS.

SHE'S GOT OTHER PEOPLE COMING INTO THE STATE SENDING THE MESSAGE THAT SHE WOULD LIKE TO SAY, BUT SHE'S THE ONE THAT HAS TO RUN NEXT YEAR, SO SHE'S BEING VERY CAREFUL POLITICALLY IN TERMS OF WHAT MOVE SHE MAKES ON THAT FRONT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET'S CALL IN OUR GUEST NOW FROM UP ON THE MAGENAW CITY AS HE PREPARES TO GO TO THE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE.

CAPTAIN MIKE BROWN.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

HOW ARE YOU DOING?

>> GOOD MORNING, TIM.

I'M DOING GREAT.

IT'S + 3 UP HERE BY THE MAKINAW BRIDGE.

WE'RE AT THE RIVERA HOTEL.

>> WHAT'S WRONG WITH A JAMES CRAIG CANDIDACY FOR GOVERNOR?

>> WELL, BEFORE I EVEN GOT IN THIS RACE, I KNEW WHO WAS GOING TO RUN, SO I MADE MY OWN DECISIONS ABOUT THE CANDIDATES, INCLUDING THE GOVERNOR'S PERFORMANCE, AND I RECOGNIZE THEY NEEDED A CANDIDATE THAT WAS IN TOUCH WITH ALL OF MICHIGAN FROM THE COUNTRY TO THE SUBURBS TO THE CITIES, AND I JUST WASN'T IMPRESSED WITH HIS PERFORMANCES, THE CHIEF, WHEN 80% OF CRIME IS NOT SOLVED.

>> WOULD YOU VOTE FOR HIM IF HE GOT THE NOMINATION?

>> I'M A SUPPORTER OF ALL REPUBLICANS.

I'VE BEEN A REPUBLICAN SINCE I'VE BEEN 18.

THEY HAVE GREAT POLICIES AND RESPECT FOR CITIZENS, SO WE WILL SEE HOW THIS RACE SHAKES OUT FROM NOW TO AUGUST 2ND ON THE PRIMARY, AND THEN ONTO NOVEMBER.

>> DO YOU CONCEDE THAT YOU'RE AN UNDERDOG IN THIS RACE, SIR?

>> WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF CANDIDATES IN THE RACE, SO THERE'S REALLY NO FRONT-RUNNER RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THE WHOLE REPUBLICAN PARTY'S GOING TO SEE WHAT SORTS OUT OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS ALL THE WAY TO AUGUST, SO I WOULDN'T SAY I'M AN UNDERDOG BUT I MAY BE A LITTLE MORE UNCONVENTIONAL CANDIDATE COMING FROM WHERE I AM, BUT FRANKLY, I'M THE ONLY PERSON WHO'S BEEN ELECTED AS A REPUBLICAN IN THIS RACE SO YOU GOT TO LOOK AT THAT.

I'M THE LONGEST SERVING REPUBLICAN IN THIS RACE.

THAT'S A FACT.

>> LAUREN?

>> SO AS YOU MENTIONED, THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE IS PRETTY CROWDED RIGHT NOW.

WHAT SORT OF LANE ARE YOU CRAFTING FOR YOURSELF?

WHAT IS THE DEMOGRAPHIC OF REPUBLICANS THAT YOU'RE HOPING TO CONVINCE TO VOTE FOR YOU?

>> WELL, I HOPE ALL THE REPUBLICANS VOTE FOR ME BECAUSE THAT'S WHY I GOT IN THE RACE.

I RELATE WELL TO INDIVIDUALS IN THE COUNTRY, PEOPLE THAT LOVE THE OUTDOORS, PEOPLE THAT SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT, INDIVIDUALS IN THE SUBURBS THAT ARE CONCERNED ABOUT JOBS AND EDUCATION.

I'VE SPENT DECADES WORKING ON CRIME IN URBAN AREAS AND THE COUNTRY AND THE SUBURBS, SO I'M AN EXPERT AT THAT.

I'M THE TOP CRIME FIGHTER IN THIS RACE.

YOU CAN WRITE THAT DOWN.

33 YEARS IN THE STATE POLICE WORKING ALL OVER THE STATE.

I WORKED NARCOTICS SURVEILLANCE.

I UNDERSTAND THE CHALLENGES OF THAT.

BUT I'M WAY MORE MULTI-DIMENSIONAL THAN THAT, CONCERNED ABOUT EDUCATION, ECONOMICS, NATURAL RESOURCES, WORK FORCE DEVELOPMENT, SO I'M GOING TO BE IN ALL THE LANES SO THAT'S MY MESSAGE.

>> CHUCK?

>> CAPTAIN, YOU'VE RECEIVED AN ENDORSEMENT FROM TED NUGENT, MOTOR CITY MAD MAN.

IS THAT MORE IMPORTANT HAVING THE ESTABLISHMENT, THE GOP ESTABLISHMENT, BEHIND YOU, AND DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE LEADERS OF THE GOP HERE IN MICHIGAN ARE ALLOWING A FAIR FIGHT WITHIN THE PARTY?

>> I'M VERY PROUD OF THAT ENDORSEMENT BECAUSE TED NUGENT RELATES TO A LOT OF THE BLUE COLLAR INDIVIDUALS AROUND THE STATE OF MICHIGAN AND PEOPLE THAT GO TO WORK EVERY DAY.

THAT'S ME, I'M A WORKING GUY.

I LOVE TO GET MY HANDS DIRTY.

SO ON THE ESTABLISHMENT SIDE, I CAN TRAVEL BOTH LANES.

SO I'M AS COMFORTABLE IN A SUIT ON MAKINAW ISLAND OR A CARHART JACKET IN THE COUNTRY, SO I DID SEE THAT JIM CRAIG SPOKE AT A COUPLE OF EVENTS THAT.

THAT REALLY DOESN'T CONCERN ME BECAUSE I'M NOT INIMITATED DAY ANY RACE OR THE GOVERNOR.

ALL MY CHIPS ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TABLE.

I'M VERY PROUD OF THAT ENDORSEMENT BY TED NUGENT BECAUSE HE KNOWS MICHIGAN.

AND PEOPLE LOVE HIM IN THE STATE.

AND THEY'RE GOING GET TO KNOW CAPTAIN MIKE PRETTY QUICK ALL OVER THE STATE.

I'VE BEEN ALREADY ALL OVER THE STATE FROM LACOMBE COUNTY TO UP NORTH.

I'M LOOKING TO THIS CAMPAIGN.

>> CHUCK, DO YOU HAVE A FOLLOW-UP?

>> QUICK FOLLOW-UP.

ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT'S GOING TO COME UP PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU GET TO THE GENERAL IS FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

LOOKING BACK, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS DULY AND FAIRLY AND LEGALLY ELECTED BY THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS OR DO YOU BELIEVE WHAT PRESIDENT -- FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS BEEN SAYING ABOUT THAT CAMPAIGN AND THAT RACE?

>> WELL, I AM A PROUD PRESIDENT TRUMP SUPPORTER.

I HAVE BEEN SINCE 2015.

AND UNLIKE SOME OTHER CANDIDATES THAT DIP IN AND OUT OF SUPPORT FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP, I AM NOT DOING THAT.

HIS POLICIES -- HIS POLICIES WERE GREAT FOR THE STATE OF MICHIGAN AND FOR THE COUNTRY THE NATIONAL DEFENCE AND ECONOMICS, SO I'M A PROUD TRUMP SUPPORTER AND I'LL STAY THAT WAY AND THE PRESIDENT SPEAKS FOR HIMSELF ON THE ELECTIONS.

I'VE READ WHAT'S GOING ON WITH DIFFERENT AUDITS AROUND THE STATES AND THE CALL FOR A FORENSIC AUDIT IN MICHIGAN.

WE NEED VOTER INTEGRITY, ELECTION INTEGRITY, SO THE PRESIDENT SPEAKS FOR HIMSELF THERE.

PRESIDENT BIDEN BEING PRESIDENT RIGHT NOW, I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, BUT WE SEE WHAT'S GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY.

WE WISH WE HAD PRESIDENT TRUMP BACK.

>> JUST TO BE REAL CLEAR: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT RACE WAS STOLEN FROM HIM?

>> CAN YOU SAY THAT AGAIN, SIR?

>> DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THAT RACE, THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE, WAS STOLEN FROM DONALD TRUMP?

>> NO, IT WAS NOT STOLEN FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP.

I'M GOING ON RECORD WITH THAT.

THERE IS SOME AUDITS GOING ON, SO I HOPE THEY GET THOSE SORTED OUT BECAUSE THE CITIZENS A HUNDRED PERCENT NEED TO KNOW THAT THEIR ELECTION IS SAFE AND SECURE.

SO I AM ALL ABOUT THAT.

I AM CONCENTRATING ON WINNING THIS RACE NEXT YEAR FOR MICHIGAN.

>> Mr. PLUTA?

>> I'M SORRY, I'M GOING TO STICK WITH THE TRUMP THREAD.

SHOULD THE ENDORSEMENT OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP BE DETERMINATIVE IN WINNING THE NOMINATION, AND WILL IT?

>> I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL.

I'M GOING TO SEEK HIS ENDORSEMENT FOR THIS NOMINATION, BECAUSE I'VE BEEN A SUPPORTER OF HIS SINCE 2015.

SO I'M GOING TO SEEK HIS ENDORSEMENT.

WE'LL SEE HOW THAT ALL SHAKES OUT.

BUT THE CITIZENS WILL SELECT THE BEST CANDIDATE TO REPRESENT THEMSELVES IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

SO I'M VERY CONFIDENT OF THAT.

>> GO AHEAD, RICK.

>> IF THE PRESIDENT SAYS THIS PERSON IS, YOU KNOW, MY PREFERRED CANDIDATE, SHOULD THE REPUBLICAN -- SHOULD THE REPUBLICANS IN MICHIGAN GO FOR THAT CANDIDATE?

>> NO, EVERY VOTER MAKES THEIR OWN DECISION.

SO ENDORSEMENTS COUNT IN CERTAIN AREAS AND LIKE I SAID, I'M GOING TO SEEK THE PRESIDENT'S ENDORSEMENT.

PROBABLY LIKE EVERY OTHER CANDIDATE THAT WE HAVE.

BUT CERTAINLY THAT WILL IMPACT VOTERS AND ACTUALLY, LAST NIGHT, I POSTED A PICTURE OF ME AND PRESIDENT TRUMP ON MY SOCIAL MEDIA FROM 2016, SO PEOPLE KNOW I'M A SUPPORTER OF THE PRESIDENT AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE A SUPPORTER OF THE PRESIDENT AND IF HE RUNS IN 2024, I'M IN HIS CORNER.

>> CAPTAIN, YOUR BODY LANGUAGE WAS QUITE INTERESTING ON THE NAME OF DONALD TRUMP CAME UP.

YOU WERE SMILING.

YOU WERE ROCKING BACK AND FORTH.

ARE YOU UNCOMFORTABE TALKING ABOUT Mr. TRUMP BECAUSE IT COULD COST YOU VOTES IN A GENERAL ELECTION IF YOU GET THE NOMINATION, TRUE?

>> NO, THAT WON'T COST ME ANY VOTES.

THE VOTERS ARE PRETTY SMART.

THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE ON WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO FOR MICHIGAN.

SO I'M JUST A LITTLE ENERGIZED ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I'VE BEEN A SUPPORTER OF THE PRESIDENT THE WHOLE TIME.

SO THAT WON'T COST YOU ANY VOTES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN.

>> SO IF HE CALLED UP AND SAID, LET'S YOU AND I CAMPAIGN TOGETHER, YOU WOULD CAMPAIGN WITH HIM, CORRECT?

>> OH, A HUNDRED PERCENT.

A HUNDRED PERCENT.

>> AND THE FACT THAT Mr. CRAIG THE OTHER DAY SAID IT WAS A POSSIBILITY, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

THAT HE WOULD CAMPAIGN WITH Mr. TRUMP?

>> WELL, THAT'S JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HIS INDECISIVENESS AND WAFFLING ON ISSUES.

I'M GOING TO CONTINUE TO POINT THAT OUT, BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SORT THIS PRIMARY OUT ALL THE WAY TO AUGUST.

>> WELL, WHAT'S INDECISIVE ABOUT THAT?

HE JUST HADN'T MADE UP HIS MIND.

>> WELL, YOU CAN LOOK AT A TON OF ISSUES ON INDECISIVENESS.

THAT'S MY CALL ON THAT.

>> GIVE ME TWO MORE.

>> WELL, HE DABBLED AROUND GETTING IN THE RACE FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS.

SO HE CAN'T MAKE UP HIS MIND ON THAT.

I'LL GO BACK TO THE CRIME STATS IN DETROIT.

79% OF CRIME IS NOT SOLVED.

SO HE'S NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO THAT.

THAT'S ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF INDECISIVENESS TO ME.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LAUREN, YOU GOT A QUESTION HERE, THEN WE'RE GOING TO DO AN OVERTIME.

SO DON'T GO AWAY, FOLKS.

LAUREN, GO AHEAD.

>> SURE, YES.

SO SOME OF THE INITIAL -- GOING BACK TO THE ELECTION ISSUE, SOME OF THE INITIAL WORDS COME OUT OF ARIZONA ARE SAYING THAT THE AUDIT HAS CONFIRMED BIDEN WON THERE.

DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH IT'S TIME FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO MOVE ON FROM THE 2020 ELECTION?

DO YOU FEEL IT'S IMPORTANT TO START PIVOTING TO THE 2022 AND FOCUSING ON OTHER ISSUES?

>> I AM A HUNDRED PERCENT FOCUSED ON 2022.

WE DO NEED ELECTION INTEGRITY FROM EVERY CITIZEN AND MICHIGAN NEEDS CONFIDENCE THAT THEIR VOTE IS COUNTED ACCURATELY AND WE HAVE ZERO FRAUD IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN AND NATIONALLY.

SO I AM A HUNDRED PERCENT FOCUSED ON 2022.

THERE'S INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE ELECTION SECURITY AND INTEGRITY IN MICHIGAN AND THEY SHOULD DO THAT.

>> CHUCK, YOU GOT ONE QUICK?

>> REAL QUICK.

CAPTAIN, ARE YOU VACCINATED?

>> I AM.

I HAVE THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON VACCINE.

I SUPPORT PEOPLE GETTING VACCINATED, BUT I WILL NEVER GO DOWN THE ROAD OF FIRING PEOPLE FOR NOT BEING VACCINATED AND PROHIBITING THEM FROM LIVING THEIR LIVES.

WE CANNOT DO THAT IN AMERICA AND IN MICHIGAN, SO I WILL NEVER GO DOWN THAT ROAD.

>> CAPTAIN, WHEN THE GOVERNOR ISSUED THE SHUTDOWN ORDERS, THERE WAS SOME COUNTY SHERIFFS WHO DID NOT ENFORCE THAT LAW.

DID YOU THINK THEY MADE THE WRONG CALL?

>> WELL, THAT WAS UNPRECEDENTED TIME WHEN LAW ENFORCEMENT WAS REALLY ASKED TO TAKE ACTION ON CITIZENS FOR LIVING THEIR LIVES AND TRYING TO KEEP THEIR BUSINESSES AFLOAT.

>> WAS IT WRONG FOR THE SHERIFFS NOT TO ENFORCE HER ORDERS, SIR?

>> NO.

IT WAS NOT WRONG.

>> SO IN OTHER WORDS, THEY TOOK AN OATH TO SUPPORT THE GOVERNOR AND THE CONSTITUTION.

IT WAS OKAY FOR THEM TO UNILATERALLY DECIDE NOT TO FOLLOW HER ORDER FROM THE GOVERNOR, CORRECT?

>> NO, THEY MADE THEIR JUDGMENT ON WHAT THEY THOUGHT WAS CORRECT ON THEIR OPA OFFICE AND THE CONSTITUTION AND THE ORDER SO THAT WAS THEIR DECISION.

>> DID YOU SUPPORT THE LAW, HER MANDATE?

>> YES, I HAD TO ENFORCE THE ORDERS THAT CAME DOWN FROM THE GOVERNOR ON CERTAIN BUSINESSES AROUND THE DISTRICT I COMMAND SO WE FOLLOWED THOSE ORDERS BECAUSE THEY WERE WITHIN THE GUIDELINES OF THE LAW AND THE ORDERS OF THE AGENCY, SO WE FOLLOWED THOSE THROUGHOUT THAT MANDATE.

>> CAPTAIN, HANG ON FOR SOME OT.

ARE YOU GAME FOR THAT?

>> OH, YEAH, LET'S DO IT.

>> WE WILL RIGHT AFTER THESE CLOSE CREDITS.

WE WILL BE BACK WITH MORE OF THE CAPTAIN AND THE GREAT PANEL AND GO TO WKAR.ORG.

SEE YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE.

.

>> Announcer: PRODUCTION OF "OFF THE RECORD"HAS BEEN MADE POSSIBLE BY THE FOLLOWING.

LEARN MORE AT MICHIGAN'S ROAD TO TOP TEN.COM.

FOR MORE "OFF THE RECORD" VISIT WKAR.ORG.

MICHIGAN PUBLIC STATIONS HAVE CONTRIBUTE THE TO THE PRODUCTION COSTS OF "OFF THE RECORD" WITH TIM SKUBICK.