>> Bonnie: THIS WEEK ON "TO THE CONTRARY".

FIRST IT'S CONGRESS' FAULT, ITS FEDERAL POLICY.

IT'S NOT A POLICY.

IT'S G ZERO TOLERANCE.

IT IS NONE OF THE ABOVE.

THE GIRL CHILDREN HARM DURING THE IMMIGRATION FIASCO.

AND THEN FEW FEMALE CELEBRITIES RUNNING FOR OFFICE THIS YEAR.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES, IMPORTANT AMERICAN COMPANIES ADAPT PAID FAMILY LEAVE.

WILL THIS BECOME THE NORM?

>> Bonnie: HELLO I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO "TO THE CONTRARY" A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST FAMILY SEPARATION AND ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

WHERE ARE THE GIRLS?

HOW AND WHEN WILL FAMILIES BE REUNITED?

CAN CONGRESS COME TOGETHER ON AN IMMIGRATION BILL?

JUST SOME OF THE MANY QUESTIONS THAT REMAIN SINCE PRESIDENT TRUMP MADE A SERIES OF 180-DEGREE TURNS IN THE FACE OF PROTESTS AND WIDESPREAD CONDEMNATION OF THE ADMINISTRATION'S POLICY.

THAT OF SEPARATING CHILDREN FROM THEIR PARENTS ENTERING THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY AT THE U.S. MEXICAN BORDER.

WE WILL DISCUSS HOW GIVES HAVE DIFFERENT ISSUES THAN BOYS WHEN THEY'RE IN DETENTION.

FIRST LADY MELANIA TRUMP MADE A SURPRISE VISIT TO A CHILD IMMIGRATION CENTER IN TEXAS.

THAT TO VISIT THE CHILDREN AND TAKE PART IN A ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION WITH THE STAFF.

IN AN UNFORTUNATE WARDROBE CHOICE THE BACK OF HER JACKET SCREAMED I DON'T CARE DO YOU?

THE PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID THE FIRST LADY AND HIS DAUGHTER IVANKA INFLUENCED HIS DECISION TO SIGN AN EXECUTIVE ORDER TO KEEP THE IMMIGRANT FAMILIES TOGETHER.

LATE THIS WEEK THE ADMINISTRATION STARTED DROPPING AGAINST CHARGE.

CONGRESSMAN NORTON, CAN PRESIDENT TRUMP EVER MAKE GOOD TO THESE THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN SEPARATED FROM THEIR PARENTS?

>> BONNIE, ONE CAN ONLY ONLY HOPE FOR THE RESILLENCY FROM THESE CHILDREN TO THE TRAUMA OF SEPARATION FROM YOUR PARENTS IS TO GO FROM BAD TO WORSE.

I THINK WE WILL DO THE RIGHT THING WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CHILDREN WHO DURING 2014 FOR EXAMPLE AND EARLIER WHEN THIS POLICY WAS STILL GOING ON AND THERE WERE STILL SEPARATIONS THEY OUGHT TO TRACK AND SEE WHAT HAPPENED TO THE KIDS BACK THEN AND WHAT WORKED AND DIDN'T WORK WITH THEM.

>> I THINK THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS WE DON'T EVEN KNOW IF WE WILL BE ABLE TO REUNITE ALL OF THE CHILDREN.

I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE FIRST STEP IS WE HAVE TO GET PEOPLE BACK TOGETHER.

THE SECOND STEP IS WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THEIR POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS.

>> I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT TO REUNITE THESE CHILDREN WITH THEIR PARENTS.

THEY SAY 500 CHILDREN WERE REUNITED WITH THEIR PARENTS IN MAY.

THAT IS A SMALL BLIP CONSIDERING WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN LIGHT OF THE 0 TOLERANCE POLICY.

>> Bonnie: TIME MAGAZINE RAN AN ARGUMENT IT IS MUCH TOUGHER ON THE GIRLS SEPARATED FROM THEIR FAMILIES.

IF THEY ARE OF AGE REACHED PUBERTY.

THEY CAN BE RAPED MUCH MORE LIKELY THAN BOY CHILDREN TO GET RAPED.

THEY GET PREGNANT, ET CETERA.

>> YOU KNOW THE REAL HORROR, IF YOU GO BACK AND LOOK AT THIS, THE LITTLE GIRLS ARE BEING BIRTH CONTROL AT THE BEGINNING OF THEIR TRIP BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY ARE GOING TO BE RAPED.

THAT IS HORRIFYING.

WHY WOULD THEY EVER TAKE THEM ON THE JOURNEY?

THOSE GIRLS SHOULD NEVER BE BROUGHT ON THE JOURNEY BY AN ILLEGAL.

BRING THEM IN IN THE LEGAL PROCESS.

BIRTH CONTROL FOR VERY YOUNG GIRLS, UNBELIEVABLE.

>> THEY GO ON THE JOURNEY BECAUSE THEY FEEL THEY HAVE NO RESOURCE COURSE.

I DON'T THINK ANYRERECOURSE.

KNOWING WHAT WE KNOW AND WHAT SHE KNOWS.

BUT THESE GIRLS, THIS REALLY BOTHERS ME BECAUSE GIRLS EVEN IF THEY HAVE FATHERS ARE OVERLY DEPENDENT ON THE ROLE MODEL FOR THEIR LIFE, THEIR MOTHERS.

SO THAT THE IMPORTANCE OF KEEPING THEM AT LEAST WITH THEIR MOTHERS CANNOT BE OVER ESTIMATED.

I'M MUCH MORE AFRAID FOR THE GIRLS.

NOW I'M AFRAID FOR THE BOYS, TOO.

I'M AFRAID THAT MANY OF THESE WOMEN ARE ESCAPING WITH ONLY THE MOTHERS THERE.

THE ISSUE, THOUGH, IS THAT BOYS CONNECTING WITH OTHER BOYS AND WITH MASCULINITY DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND THEY DON'T HAVE MENSTRATION AN THE OTHER LIFE CHANGES THAT COME WITH WITH W IT.

>> WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THE GIRLS ARE BEING HELD OR ANYTHING.

IT LEADS TO US SPECULATE WHAT IS CUSTOM AND BORDER PROTECTION DOING?

>> WHICH PARTY IS GOING TO COME OUT OF THIS LOOKING BETTER?

THE DEMOCRATS?

HAVE THEY OVER PLAYED THEIR HAND AT ALL WITH THESE PICTURES AND TAPES OR THE REPUBLICANS, PRESIDENT TRUMP GOING -- DOING ABOUT 3 OR 4, 180s IN THE LAST WEEK ALONE.

>> AT THIS POINT I DON'T THINK EITHER PARTY IS UNSAVED.

THIS IS WHERE WE ARE.

BECAUSE OF THEIR INABILITY TO ACT.

OURY ELECTED LEADERS HAVE NOT ACTED.

THAT'S WHERE WE ARE TODAY.

IMMIGRATION COULD HAVE HANDLED IN CONGRESS MANY YEARS AGO.

IT WAS THE SHEER FRUSTRATION.

>> I THINK REPUBLICAN CONTROLS CONGRESS?

AND PRESIDENT BEN SEE.

HOW IN THE WORLD YOU CAN BLAME THIS CRISIS AND WHAT HAPPENED IN PRIOR ADMINISTRATIONS COULD NEVER BE TERMED A CRISIS.

HOW IN THE WORLD YOU COULD SAY THIS CRISIS HAS TO DO WITH BOTH PARTIES IS WHY NOTHING CAN GET DONE IN THE CONGRESS.

>> PREVIOUS DETERRENTS HAVE BEEN INEFFECTIVE.

IT WAS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF BOTH PARTIES TO COME TO THE TABLE AND GET SOMETHING DONE.

>> WAIT A MINUTE.

CONGRESS IS SO POLARIZED BECAUSE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE POLARIZED.

THEY ELECT PEOPLE WHO REPRESENT THEIR VIEWS.

>> I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.

>> THEY BLAME THIS ON CONGRESS.

I SAY BLAME IT ON THE AMERICAN VOTERS.

>> THEY DON'T VOTE OUT THE PEOPLE ACTING RIGHT.

>> THEY VOTE FOR EXTREMISTS.

>> IN OUR SYSTEM IT IS HARD TO VOTE OUT AN I AM COUPLE BENT.

IT IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT EVERY 2 YEARS THEY ARE ASKING TO GET BACK TO THEIR JOB.

>> IT IS ALSO VOTING IN MORE EXTREME PARTICULARLY HOUSE MEMBERS, PARTICULARLY REPUBLICANS I COVERED THE HOUSE IN THE '80s AND THEY WERE -- THERE WERE NO PEOPLE LIKE THERE ARE NOW THAT, YOU KNOW, WANT TO PUT THE BIBLE IN EVERY FEDERAL LAW.

THE DEMOCRATS HAVE GOTTEN A LITTLE MORE EXTREME IN REACTION.

IT WAS NEWT GINGRICH AND THE REPUBLICAN.

>> WHO IS WINNING ON THIS ISSUE.

ACCORDING TO THE RESEARCH THAT PEW PUT OUT ON WEDNESDAY, GRANTED THESE SURVEYS WERE DONE PRIOR TO SORT OF THE MOST RECENT INFLAMMATORY ACTIONS, WHAT IT SHOWED WAS THAT DEMOCRATS HAD A 14 PERCENTAGE POINT ADVANTAGE WHEN THE ISSUE THAT WAS TALKED ABOUT AND SORT OF JUDGED IN THE MID TERM VOTE GOING FORWARD IT WAS ABOUT 14%.

SO DEMOCRATS ARE WINNING ON THIS IS EVERY MINUTE OF THE DAY IMMIGRATION IS A TOPIC.

DEMOCRATS ARE WINNING.

WHERE REPUBLICANS WIN ACCORDING TO THE PEW RESEARCH ECONOMY.

9 POINT ADVANTAGE FOR REPUBLICANS ON THE ECONOMY.

IF I WAS A REPUBLICAN I WOULD GET OFF THIS ISSUE AND PIVOT TO THE ECONOMY.

>> I DON'T DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAID THAT IS OLD POLLING.

THE PEOPLE ARE SAYING IT IS THE PARENT'S FAULT.

THAT IS THE MOST RECENT.

THE OTHER THING PAST THAT I'M GOING TO QUOTE BE A LINCOLN.

AS BE A LINCOLN SAID THE BEST WAY TO GET RID OF A BAD BILL IS TO ENFORCE IT.

BY THIS ENFORCEMENT NOW WE WILL NOW HAVE THE WILL IN CONGRESS FOR THE TWO SIDES TO COME TOGETHER.

>> ENFORCE WHAT?

I WENT BACK AND READ THE STATUTE.

THE STATUTE GIVES THE POWER TO DECIDE WHETHER TO MAKE IT A A MISSISSIPPI DEMEANOR OR FELONY OR ANY PROSECUTION TO THE BORDER PATROL AGENTS.

>> BY DOING THE ZERO TOLERANCE AND TAKING THE NEXT EXTREME POSITION YOU EXPOSE HOW THE BILL IS NOT GOOD.

HOPEFULLY THIS WILL GIVE CONGRESS THE WILL TO MAKE THE CHANGES NOW.

THEY CERTAINLY GOT -- >> I CAN UNDERSTAND IT.

I CAN UNDERSTAND IT BECAUSE I REALLY DO THINK THAT'S WHAT IS PRODUCING THE REACTION WE HAVE TODAY.

IT'S AN OVERWHELMINGLY NEGATIVE REACTION TO THE ADMINISTRATION FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

>> SO YOU WILL GET IT DONE.

>> LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER.

FROM IMMIGRATION POLICY TO POLITICAL CANDIDATES.

>> CELEBRITIES ARE HARDLY NEW TO POLITICS BUT CELEBRITIES WHO RUN FOR OFFICE ARE ALMOST ALWAYS MEN.

CYNTHIA NIXON WHO STARRED IN THE HBO HIT SEX AND THE CITY SEEKS TO CHANGE THAT.

IF SHE BEATS ANDREW CUOMO SHE WOULD BE THE FIRST WOMAN TO OBTAIN THAT HIGH OF OFFICE.

THEY ARE RUNNING IN THIS PRIMARY SEASON.

DOES A FEMALE STAR FACE ADDITIONAL SCRUTINY ON THE POSITIVE CRITICALPOLITICAL STAGE.

IN 2013 ASHLEY JUDD CONSIDERED RUNNING AGAINST REPUBLICAN SENATOR AND MAJORITY LEADER MITCH McCONNELL OF KENTUCKY.

SHE DIDN'T CHOOSE TO RUN.

IN 1967 SHIRLEY TEMPLE BLACK LOST HER BID FOR CONGRESS.

IF ELECTED NIXON WOULD BECOME THE FIRST WOMAN AND OPENLY GAY GOVERNOR OF THE STATE.

>> Bonnie: WHY IS IT THAT CELEBRITY WOMEN THAT DO RUN OR THINK ABOUT IT, BOTH OF THOSE RACES, YOU KNOW THE ASHLEY JUDD FOR EXAMPLE WAS NEVER GOING TO BEAT MITCH McCONNELL.

SHE IS 20 POINTS BEHIND CUOMA DESPITE HIS CORRUPTION PROBLEMS.

>> THIS IS WHERE I ADVICE CELEBRITIES TO BE SMARTER WHO THEY RUN AGAINST.

THIS GETS TO THE BIGGER ISSUE.

I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS JUST A GENDER ISSUE.

IF YOU LOOK AT ALL CELEBRITIES WHO HAVE RUN, THEY TOO HAVE HAD CREDIBILITY ISSUES.

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER HAD TO LEAD AN INITIATIVE IN THE BALLOT IN 2002 TO ESSENTIALLY ESTABLISH SOME POLITICAL PURCHASE AND CREDIBILITY AND HE NEVER WOULD HAVE WON GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA HAD IT NOT BEEN A RECALL ELECTION.

>> YOU THINK THE CREDIBILITY ISSUE WAS CRAFTED BY RONALD REAGAN?

>> WAIT A MINUTE.

RONALD REAGAN HAD BEEN PRESIDENT OF THE SCREEN ACTORS GILD.

HE WAS HIGHLY ACTIVE IN POLITICS.

PEOPLE FORGET THIS, BUT IN THE ENTIRE LEADING UP TO AFTER HIS GUBERNATORIAL TERM IN CALIFORNIA, HE HAD A RADIO SHOW THAT HE ESSENTIALLY PUT OUT POLITICAL OPINIONS EVERY SINGLE WEEK.

SO RONALD REAGAN IS SOMEBODY WHO ACTUALLY HAD A VERY SERIOUS IDEOLOGICAL AGENDA.

WHETHER OR NOT YOU AGREED WITH IT, HE REALLY WORKED TO CREATE SOME CREDIBILITY.

AND THIS IS WHERE I GET ANNOYED WITH THE CELEBRITIES THAT SAY I KNOW, LET'S GO FOR THE HIGHEST OFFICE AND THE MOST VISIBLE PLACE AND I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS WORLD AND I'M JUST GOING TO JUMP IN.

THE TRUTH IS THEY SHOULD GET EXPERIENCE, RUN FOR LOWER LEVEL OFFICE -- >> Bonnie: THE BAR HAS BEEN LOWERED BY PRESIDENT TRUMP.

IT HAS BEEN CHAOTIC IN HIS ADMISSION FROM THE START.

YOU SAID IT CORRECTLY REAGAN CRACKED THE CODE.

HE SHOWED YOU HAD TO HAVE MORE THAN JUST THE CELEBRITY.

SCHWARZENEGGER HE WAS AN INITIALED BUSINESSMAN.

HE BROUGHT MORE THAN THE AVERAGE TURKEY COMING OUT AS A CELEBRITY THAT WANTS TO RUN.

>> AND HE WAS VERY POPULAR.

HE GOT REELECTED.

>> IN TRUMP'S CASE WHETHER HE HAS BEEN A SUCCESS IN BUSINESS OR NOT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SAW SUCCESS AND THEY SAW HE DEMONSTRATES CELEBRITY APPRENTICE THE WAY HIS MANAGEMENT STYLE WAS WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH IT OR NOT.

SO THAT GAVE HIM MORE THAN WE WOULD HAVE NORMALLY.

CYNTHIA NIXON CANNOT BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY WITH THE THINGS SHE SAYS.

ISIS IS A TERRORIST GROUP GIVE ME A BREAK.

IS HE SAYS THINGS THAT ARE SO STUPID SHE IS GOING BACKWARDS.

>> Bonnie: CAN YOU THINK OF A FEMALE CELEBRITY WHO SHOULD RUN FOR PRESIDENT BESIDES OPRAH WHIM WIN FREE WHO WILL NOT DO IT?

>> WHAT IS APPARENTLY CYNTHIA NIXON DOES NOT UNDERSTAND AND THAT IS THE CONVERSION OF POPULARITY WITH WHAT YOU DO TO POPULARITY IN POLITICS THEY TAKE NAME RECOGNITION TO BE EVERYTHING.

I GIVE ALL CREDIT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE -- THAT THEY ARE HOLDING PEOPLE'S FEET TO THE FIRE AND THEY ARE NOT ELECTING THESE CELEBRITIES.

THAT IS NOT A REASON TO HOLD ELECTABLE OFFICE.

>> Bonnie: BUT HOW DOES THAT APPLY TO THE WHITE HOUSE?

YOU HAVE A CELEBRITY THERE NOW.

>> HE WAS A BUSINESSMAN.

>> Bonnie: IS THERE A BUSINESS WOMAN WHO HAS GONE ON TV THAT COULD RUN SUCCESSFULLY FOR PRESIDENT.

>> WE HAVE ELECTED MANY CELEBRITIES TO PRESIDENCY.

THEY WERE CALLED WAR HEROES.

WE CAN GO THROUGH THE LIST.

BUT THEY WERE CELEBRITIES IN THEIR TIME.

IN THEIR TIME THAT'S ACTUALLY GAVE NAME RECOGNITION TO MOUNT THEIR CAMPAIGNS.

>> Bonnie: ISN'T THAT A MUCH MORE SERIOUS CREDENTIAL.

>> THAT'S MY POINT.

WE HAVE NOW CONFUSED WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A CELEBRITY.

SO IN OTHER WORDS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO MUCH TO ACQUIRE THE KIND OF FAME THAT THOSE GENERALS HAD.

>> GRANT -- >> I'M DISTURBED BY THE FACT THAT KIM KARDASHIAN IS CONSIDERING A PRESIDENTIAL RUN.

I REALLY AM.

SHE MAY BE IN HER HEAD SHE MAY.

THAT'S FINE.

IT IS EVERYBODY'S RIGHT TO CONSIDER RUNNING FOR OFFICE ESPECIALLY WOMEN WHO HAVE HIGH NAME ID.

>> IT IS MARKETING.

>> SHE HAS BRANDED HERSELF AND MARKETED HER BRAND TO THAT EXTENT.

-- >> LOOK AT THE INFLUENCE SHE HAD ON PRESIDENT TRUMP.

>> ANYTHING SHE PUTS OUT THERE.

>> >> Bonnie: WOULD SHE -- EVEN IF SHE HAD A BIG TV SHOW, WHICH THEIR SHOW IS STILL ON CABLE.

I DON'T THINK IT IS ON NETWORK.

EVEN IF SHE HAD A TV SHOW AS TRUMP HAD BEFORE HE WAS ELECTED, WOULD PEOPLE GIVE HER CREDIBILITY AND WOULD THAT BE THE CREDIBILITY THEY GAVE HIM?

OR WOULD THEY QUESTION HER MORE?

>> IT IS APPLES TO ORANGES AT THIS POINT.

WHAT REALLY MADE PEOPLE THINK WAS THE FACT SHE TOOK A STANCE AND WENT TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

SOMEBODY LIKE HER WAS EMBRACED BY TRUMP AND SHE SEEMED TO HAVE AN EFFECT.

TAKE YOUR CELEBRITY FROM HOLLYWOOD AND TRANSLATE IT TO HOLLYWOOD ON THE PATOMIC HERE.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO OPERATE UNDER THESE NEW RULES.

NAME ID IS A BIG THING.

CYNTHIA NIXON -- >> TWITTER FOLLOWING.

>> WHAT YOU ARE PUTTING OUT THERE IN TERMS OF THOUGHT LEADERSHIP.

IT HASN'T HAS BEEN THE ERA OF EISENHOWER.

>> Bonnie: WHY THE U.S. IS THE ONLY WESTERN COUNTRY WITHOUT A PAID FAMILY LEAVE PROGRAM MANY, MANY TIMES.

NOW A NUMBER OF LAWMAKERS AND ORGANIZATIONS FROM BOTH MAJOR PARTIES ARE PROPOSING A VARIETY OF PROGRAMS TO ADDRESS THIS.

>> 78% OF AMERICAN VOTERS WANT A NATIONAL PAID FAMILY LEAVE FUND.

KATIE BETHELL PRESIDENT OF PAID LEVEL U.S. OR PLUS SAYS SUPPORT FOR A GOVERNOR MANDATED PLAN IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION BUT NOT NEARLY ENOUGH.

>> OUR GOALS AND ORGANIZATION IS TO WIN NATIONAL PUBLIC POLICY.

WE ARE NEVER GOING TO WIN PUBLIC POLICY IF WE DON'T CHANGE THE CULTURE AROUND WHAT WE EXPECT AROUND LEAVE FOR WOMEN.

THAT GOT US STARTED WHERE WE WILL LOOK AT COMPANIES HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE TO HAVE PAID FAMILY LEAVE.

>> EARLY WALMART AND STARBUCKS ADOPTED SOME OF THE BEST PAID FAMILY LEAVE PLANS IN THE COUNTRY.

IT WAS A MAJOR VICTORY FOR PLUS.

BUT THE ORGANIZATION'S LEADERS AREN'T SATISFIED.

THEIR GOAL IS A EXPENSIVE PAID MANDATED FAMILY LEAVE PLAN RICANS.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A MINIMUM OF 12 WEEKS OF PAID LEAVE THAT'S PAID AT A HIGHER LEVEL FOR PEOPLE MAKING THE LOWEST AMOUNT OF MONEY SO THAT EVERYBODY CAN AFFORD TO TAKE PAID FAMILY LEAVE.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT COVER THE ARRIVAL OF A CHILD FOR ANY REASON.

PERSONAL LEAVE AND FAMILY LOAF.

>> ONE APPROACH IS THE FAMILY ACT LED BY NEW YORK NAME KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND.

IT WOULD CREATE A PAID FAMILY LEAVE PROGRAM FOR ALL WORKERS WITH 12 WEEKS OF PAID LEAVE FUNDED BY A PAYROLL TAX ON EMPLOYEES AND EMPLOYERS.

>> SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN PUT IN PLACE PAID FAMILY MEDICAL LEAVE BECAUSE WE HAVE TO KEEP SOME OF THE MOST HIGHLY SKILLED AND HARDEST WORKERS IN THE WORKFORCE WITHOUT IT, WE LOSE THEM.

>> SENATORS MARCO RUBIO, JONI ERNST AND MIKE LEE ARE CONSIDERING A PLAN TO LET AMERICANS DIP NO THEIR FUTURE SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS AND USE THAT MONEY FOR PAID FAMILY LEAVE INSTEAD.

>> WE HAVEN'T DRAWN UP TEXT FOR ANY ONE PLAN OR ANOTHER.

IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE CONSIDERING.

I AM HOPEFUL BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT IDEAS THAT MIGHT BE PROPOSED IN CONGRESS WE DO FIND SOMETHING THAT WORKS FOR FAMILIES ACROSS AMERICA.

>> THE CONSERVATIVE INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S FORUM, MANY OF WHOM POLICY EXPERTS ARE OUR PANELIST SUPPORT USING EARLY SOCIAL SECURITY PAYMENT PROGRAMS.

>> TO HELP PEOPLE WHO NEED IT WHEN THEY NEED IT.

HAVE SOME RESPONSIBILITY.

THERE IS A COST FOR THIS TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO USE THEIR LEVY FISHENTLY.

>> MANY PEOPLE ARE UNAWARE THAT LAST YEAR'S TAX AND JOBS ACT INCLUDED A PAID FAMILY LOAF PLAN ORIGINALLY PROPOSED BY REPUBLICAN SENATOR DEB FISCHER OF NEBRASKA THE STRONG FAMILIES ACT GIVES TAX CREDITS TO BUSINESSES.

>> IT'S A BILL THAT OFFERS A TAX CREDIT AND IT REALLY FOCUSES ON SMALL FAMILY BUSINESSES SO THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO OFFER PAID FAMILY LEAVE TO THEIR EMPLOYEES.

IT'S A PILOT PROGRAM, A 2-YEAR PILOT PROGRAM SO WE CAN GET SOME DATA AND UNDERSTAND IF IT IS REALLY WORKING AND IF IT IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE A BENEFIT.

>> BOTH HE WILL SAYS BETHELL SAYS IT IS NOT A PAID FAMILY LEAVE PLAN.

TAX CREDITS HAVE PROVEN INEFFECTIVE IN THE PAST.

IN ORDER TO RECEIVE THEM, BUSINESSES MUST DRASTICALLY CHANGE THEIR POLICIES AND FEW ARE WILLING TO DO SO.

>> Bonnie: WHO SHOULD PAY FOR IT?

NOBODY WANTS IT OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKET OBVIOUSLY.

WHO SHOULD PAY FOR THIS?

CORPORATIONS?

THE GOVERNMENTS THE PEOPLE WHO TAKE THE LEAVE?

>> I DON'T THINK THERE IS A PERFECT ANSWER YET AS TO WHO.

I THINK ONE THING THAT'S A PROBLEM TO TALK ABOUT THIS IS A CHOICE TO HAVE A CHILD IS A CHOICE IN TODAY'S SOCIETY.

IT IS ABOUT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY TO SOME END.

>> Bonnie: MEANING THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE FINANCIALLY ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR CHILDREN WITHOUT NEEDING FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE?

>> NOT ENTIRELY.

WE HAVE TO STRENGTHEN THE AMERICAN FAMILY AND WE HAVE TO DO IT FOR FAMILIES OF ALL TYPE.

HAVE A CHOICE AND RIGHTFUL CHOOSE TO TAKE A CHILD OR HAVE A CHILD RATHER.

I THINK IT IS TIME WE THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX.

ALL WE EVER TALK ABOUT INCENTIVES AND MANDATES.

WHERE IS THE IN BETWEEN?

>> Bonnie: WHAT IS THE IN BETWEEN?

>> SHE SPENT SOME TIME IN THE SENATE WORKING ON AN AMENDMENT THAT CREATED A HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNT THAT IS PORTABLE.

YOU CONTRIBUTE TO IT WITH HOWEVER MONEY YOU WANT.

EMPLOYERS CAN MATCH YOUR CONTRIBUTION.

EVEN IF YOU MOVE ON, IT IS SOMETHING WHERE EVERYONE HAS SKIN IN THE GAME.

YOU CAN DIP INTO IT FOR ANYTHING COVERED UNDER FAMILY LOAF.

FMLA.

>> Bonnie: >> NOBODY TAKES IT.

THE REASON IS THERE'S NO MONEY IN IT.

NOW WE HAVE ANOTHER BAD IDEA.

>> CALIFORNIA PASSED ONE THAT PAID 50% OF SALARIES.

NOBODY WAS TAKING THAT EITHER.

>> THAT TELLS YOU EVERYTHING ABOUT WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.

NOW THE REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE HAVE COME UP WITH A BAD IDEA.

TRADE IN YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY FOR YOUR FAMILY LEAVE.

YOU ARE SACRIFICING YOUR CHILDREN FOR YOUR OLD AGE.

WE CAN DO BETTER THAN THAT.

WE CAN DO WHAT EVERY ON EARN WESTERN NATION IN THE WORLD HAS DONE PAY FOR THIS BECAUSE YOU VALUE YOUR CHILDREN.

EASIER SAID THAN DO.

I HAVE TO AGREE THE SOCIAL SECURITY IDEA IS A NON-STARTER BAD IDEA.

I LIKE MORE THE HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNT APPROACH.

>> YOU GET CANCER YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE HALF A MILLION DOLLARS IN YOUR HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNT TO PAY FOR YOUR COVERAGE.

THE SAME THING WITH CHILD CARE.

>> THIS WOULD BE ONE FOR LEAVE.

I'M SAYING I LIKE THE IDEA BETTER THAN THE OTHER.

I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS THE PERFECT ANSWER.

IT IS VERY HARD TO GET THERE.

MY POINT I GUESS WOULD BE THAT AS EMPLOYER, I HAVE ALWAYS HAD VERY GENEROUS PAID LEAVE BECAUSE I VALUE MY EMPLOYEES.

THEY ARE MY NUMBER 1 ASSET.

AS THE JOB MARKET GETS TIGHTER AND TIGHTER YOU WILL SEE SMALL BUSINESS AND OTHERS FIGURE THIS OUT.

THEY WILL LOSE SOME OF THEIR BEST EMPLOYEES IF THEY DON'T.

THERE WILL BE SOME MARKET PRESSURE.

YOU ARE RIGHT.

WE HAVE TO THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX.

MARKET PRESSURE WILL COME TO BEAR.

HOW DO WE MAKE EMPLOYERS EASIER TO DO IT AND THEY WILL WANT TO DO IT MORE AND MORE THEY WILL LOSE PEOPLE.

ELDER CARE NOT JUST CHILD CARE.

>> I WOULD LOVE FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO DO THIS.

WHEN I LOOK AT THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A 21 TRILLON DOLLAR DEBT AND DEFICIT IN THE TR ILLION DOLLAR MARK -- >> WHEN OBAMA LEFT OFFICE IT WASN'T TRILLIONS.

>> 2000 WHEN BILL CLINTON LEFT OFFICE WE WERE ESSENTIALLY DEBT FREE.

>> WE WERE DEBT FREE.

>> WE ARE NOT DEBT FREE.

>> 9/11 HAPPENED WE HAD THE CRASH IN THE ECONOMY.

>> I WOULD ARGUE WHILE THE SOCIAL SECURITY PLAN IS NOT PERFECT THE THING I DO LIKE ABOUT IT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EXTENDING YOUR ABILITY TO GET YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS BY ABOUT 12 WEEKS TO 16 WEEKS.

>> Bonnie: ALL RIGHT, WE GOT TO GO WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE PBS.COM PBS.COM/TOTHECONTRARY.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.