JOINING US ON CHICAGO TONIGHT.

I'M BRANDIS FRIEDMAN.

>> AND I'M PARIS SCHUTZ.

CHICAGOWORKERS COULD SEE A BUMP IN PAY IF THE CITY DOES AWAY WITH TIP MINIMUM WAGE.

THAT COULD BE FOR EMPLOYEES, RESTAURANTS AND PATRONS.

>>> GOOGLE IS IN COURT ON CHARGES IT USES ILLEGAL PAYOFFS TO CREATE A MONOPOLY IN THE SEARCH ENGINE MARKET.

>>> AND USING GLASS ART TO RAISE AWARENESS FOR UKRAINE.

>>> PRESIDENT JOE BIDE BEN COULD BE FACING IMPEACHMENT NOW THAT KEVIN McCARTHY HAS DIRECTED AN INQUIRY INTO THE BOYDEN FAMILY FINANCES.

HERE'S WHAT WE KNOW SO FAR.

WE HAVE FOUND THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN DID LIE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT HIS OWN KNOWLEDGE ABOUT HIS FAMILY'S FOREIGN BUSINESS DEALINGS.

>> THE INQUIRY IS A STEP TOWARDS IMPEACHMENT.

McCARTHY ARGUES THAT THE HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE HAS FOUND A CULTURE OF CORRUPTION AROUND THE BIDEN FAMILY AS REPUBLICANS INVESTIGATE THE BUSINESS DEALINGS OF THE PRESIDENT'S SON HUNTER BIDEN, FROM BEFORE THE TIME THE PRESIDENT WAS ELECTED.

THE WHITE HOUSE HAS CALLED THE MOVE EXTREME POLITICS.

>>> ATTORNEYS FOR JUSSIE SMOLLETT ARE ARGUING THAT HIS CONVICTIONS FOR DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND MAKING FALSE POLICE STATEMENTS SHOULD BE THROWN OUT.

THE COURT HEARD ORAL ARGUMENTS TOD.

THE ATTORNEYS ARGUE THAT IT VIOLATES THE CLAUSE OF DOUBLE JEOPARDY.

PROSECUTORS DISAGREE.

HE IS ACCUSED OF MAKING A HATE CRIME NEAR HIS RESIDENCE.

>>> ILLINOIS BAN ON BOOKS WAS FRONT AND CENTER AT A HEARING CHAIRED BY SENATOR DICK DURBIN.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE TESTIFIED ABOUT ILLINOIS LEGISLATION THAT PREVENTS STATE GRANT FUNDING FOR LIBRARIES THAT DON'T ADHERE TO THE AMERICAN LIBRARY ASSOCIATION'S BILL OF RIGHTS OR LIBRARIES THAT DON'T ISSUE A STATEMENT PROHIBITING THE PRACTICE OF BANNING BOOKS.

>> YOU SEE OUR LIBRARIES HAVE BECOME TARGETS BY A MOVEMENT THAT CLAIMS TO PURSUE FREEDOM BUT INSTEAD IS PROMOTING AUTHORARIANISM.

AUTHORITARIAN RUJOEMS BAN BOOKS, NOT DEMOCRACIES.

>> THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE SAID IN 2022 RGS ACTIVISTS SUBMITTED 1,000 REQUESTS TO BAN BOOKS AT PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND LIBRARIES, THE HIGHEST NUMBER IN 20 YEARS.

TODAY HFS HEARING EXAMINES THE HISTORY OF BOOK BANS, LIMITATIONS BOOK BANS IMPOSE.

>>> A HUGE CROWD ATTENDED THE ILLINOIS STATE FAIR LAST MONTH.

THE GOVERNOR SAID ATTENDANCE SET AN ALLTIME RECORD.

THAT IS A LOT OF PEOPLE WITNESSING THE FAMOUS WUTER COW HERE.

GOVERNOR PRITZKER ANNOUNCED 11,000 PEOPLE ATTENDED AND $80 MILLION IN STATE INFRASTRUCTURE WAS SPENT TO UPDATE THE STATE FAIRGROUNDS.

>>> COMING UP IN THE PROGRAM, GOOGLE IS AT THE CENTER OF A LANDMARK TRIAL, WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THE CASE.

>>> FIRST, WILL CHICAGO DO AWAY WITH A TIPS MINIMUM WAGE?

WE EXPLORE A PROPOSED ORDINANCE THAT WOULD DO JUST THAT, RIGHT AFTER THIS.

>>> CHICAGO TONIGHT IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY ALEXENED RUAND JOHN NICHOLS, THE POPE BROTHERS FOUNDATION, AND THE SUPPORT OF THESE DONORS.

>>> RESTAURANT WORKERS IN CHICAGO WHO ARE TIPPED ARE GETTING CLOSER TO A RAISE IF SOME ALDER PEOPLE HAVE THEIR WAY.

KURPTLY TIP WORKERS AND BARTENDERS MAKE A SUBMINIMUM WAGE OF $9.48.

CHICAGO'S CURRENT MINIMUM WAGE IS $15.80 WHEN AN EMPLOYEE'S HOURLY WAGE PLUS TIPS DON'T ADD UP TO $15.80, THE EMPLOYERS HAVE TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE.

THE ORDINANCE WOULD PHASE OUT THE LOWER TIP WAGE OVER A TWO YEAR PERIOD.

IT HAS THE BACKING OF MAYOR BRANDON JOHNSON.

TO TALK ABOUT THE PROPOSAL IS ALDER WOMAN JESSE FENT ES, WHO REPRESENTS THE 26th WARD.

NATACKY WARD IS THE NATIONAL LEAD NETWORK ORGANIZER FOR THE ORGANIZATION ONE FAIR WAGE PUSHING FOR THE CHANGE.

AND MARIE TIEBAL FROM A RESTAURANT AND THE OWNER OF PAKETO BRAND RESTAURANTS, EVERYONE THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

ALDER WOMAN FUENTES, LET'S START WITH YOU.

WHY IS CITY COUNCIL CONSIDERING THIS NOW WITH SOME PEOPLE STRUGGLING TO COME BACK FROM THE PANDEMIC?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE MINIMUM WAGE IS ROOTED IN SLAVERY.

IT IS WHERE IT STARTED IN THE SIT AY OF CHICAGO.

WE KNOW THAT WOMEN OF COLOR PARTICULARLY SUFFER FROM DISCRIMINATION AND SEXUAL HARASSMENT ON THE JOB AND ARE LESS LIKELY TO GET THE TIPS TO GET THEM TO MINIMUM WAGE.

THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION FOUND 85% OF THE RESTAURANTS THAT ARE REQUIRED TO GET FOLKS TO THE MINIMUM WAGE ARE IN VIOLATION OF THE POLICY.

WE HAVE SOMETHING HERE THAT CAN WORK, THAT HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED IN SEVEN OTHER STATES.

LET'S GET THE TIPS ON TOP.

THE ECONOMY IS BETTER FOR FAMILIES AND WE WILL GET FOLKS, PARTICULARLY WOMEN OF COLOR OUT OF POVERTY.

>> MARIO, WHAT WOULD THAT MEAN FOR YOUR THREE RESTAURANTS?

DO YOU ALREADY HAVE TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE IF PEOPLE ARE NOT RECEIVING ENOUGH?

>> GOOD QUESTIONS.

WE SELDOM HAVE TO PAY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN $9.48 VERSUS $15.80 PRIMARILY BECAUSE THE STAFF GENERALLY MAKES MORE THAN THAT ON A CONSISTENT BASIS.

THE CHALLENGE WE HAVE -- TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, SLOULT, THE STAFF WOULD MAKE LESS MONEY IF WE WERE TO INCORPORATE THE NEW ORDINANCE.

WE BELIEVE WE WILL HAVE TO RAISE PRICES AS A RESULT OF THIS.

I THINK IT WILL BE A TRAGEDY FOR US RESTAURANTEURS IF THIS PASSES.

ONE THING THAT WASN'T MENTIONED IS THAT THE MINIMUM WAGE HAS BEEN GOING UP A DOLLAR A YEAR PER HOUR PER YEAR FOR THE LAST SIX OR SEVEN YEARS.

THAT IS AFFECTING US.

IT IS AFFECTING THE FACT THAT THE BUSINESS, THIS IS JUST SOMETHING THAT WE CAN'T TOLERATE.

>> NAKHAKI, WHAT HAVE BEEN THE RESULT IN CITIES THAT HAVE DONE THIS?

>> IT HAS BEEN A GREAT RESULT.

PRICES, TIPS HAVE GONE UP, BUSINESS IS STILL BOOMING IN CALIFORNIA, ALASKA, OREGON, BUSINESSES ARE STILL BOOMING.

STOP SAYING IT WILL BE A TRAGEDY TO CHICAGO.

YOU OWN THREE RESTAURANTS.

IF YOUR WORKERS RECEIVE $9.48 PLUS GETTING THEIR TIPS, THAT'S NOT A LIVING WAGE.

IF THEY RECEIVE $15 AN HOUR WITH TIPS ON TOP, THAT IS A LIVING WAGE.

FOLKS ARE ALREADY PAYING $15 AN HOUR.

IT IS CALLED THE GREAT RESIGNATION.

PEOPLE LEFT BECAUSE OF LOW WAGES.

THEY ARE NOT COMING BACK BECAUSE OF LOW WAGES.

>> AND I WANT TOCOME BACK TO WHETHER OR NOT RESTAURANTS WOULD STILL -- HOW MUCH WORKERS MIGHT STILL EARN IF TIPS WERE EARNED ON TOP OF THAT $15.80 BUT I WANT TO GET ANN MARIE IN HERE, MANAGING PARTNER AT LET US ENTERTAINMENT YOU, THAT HAS DOZENS OF RESTAURANTS HERE, MORE THAN THE THREE THAT MARIO HAS.

HOW WOULD THAT IMPACT YOUR BUSINESS?

>> I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR THAT I'M A MANAGER OF A HUGE REPRESENTATIVE GROUP BUT I ALSO REPRESENT MY PARENTS WHO HAVE A SINGLE REST SFLVENLT I GREW UP WITH THAT.

THIS PROPOSED ORDINANCE AFFECTS RESTAURANTS OF EVERY SCALE AND EVERY BUSINESS.

I WANT TOCLEAR UP A FUNDAMENTAL MISCHARACTERIZATION OF THE TIP CREDIT.

NO ONE IN THE RESTAURANTS MAKES LESS THAN $15.80 AN HOUR, NO ONE.

IF THERE ARE BAD ACTORS OUT THERE PAYING LESS THAN THE LAW, THE MINIMUM WAGE OF $15.80, LET'S GO AFTER THE BAD ACTORS AND MAKE IT EASIER TO CALL THEM OUT.

BUT ACCORDING TO THE NATIONAL RESTAURANT ASSOCIATION, THE MEDIAN HOURLY WAGE FOR A SERVER IN ILLINOIS WAS $28.50, THAT IS 80% HIGHER THAN THE MINIMUM WAGE IN CHICAGO.

THIS IS GOING TO AFFECT BUSINESSES AT EVERY SCALE.

>> SO IF A WORKER IS MAKING $28 RIGHT NOW, THEY ARE NOT GOING BACK DOWN TO $9.48 AN HOUR.

YOU WILL CONTINUE TOPAY THAT WORKER THE $28 AN HOUR.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

>> THAT COMES OUT AFTER TIPS.

>> SO WORKERS ARE MAKING $9.48 AN HOUR.

>> OUR SERVERS AFTER THEIR TIP CREDIT WAGE AND GRATUITIES ARE MAKING IN THE STATE OF ILLINOIS, OVER $28 AN HOUR.

AND AT LET US ENTERTAIN YOU, EVEN HIGHER.

WE ARE PROUD OF THAT.

I RECOGNIZE THE PROBLEM THAT WE ARE TRYING TO SOLVE BUT I THINK THE ORDINANCE IS NOT ADDRESSING IT IN THE RIGHT WAY.

>> FUENTES, HAVE YOU SPOKEN WITH THE ILLINOIS RESTAURANT ASSOCIATION ABOUT THIS?

>> YES, WE HAVE INVITED THEM AND OTHERS BACK TO THE TABLE.

NEGOTIATIONS ARE NOT DONE HERE.

THE PROPOSAL WE HAVE, THERE IS ROOM TO INCREASE THE THE SCALE.

I WANT TO GO BACK AND SAY LOOK, FOLKS ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE LESS FOR THE ORDINANCE.

WE ARE ASKING FOR AN INCREASE OF MINIMUM WAGE WITH TIPS ON TOP.

WE HAVE NOT SAID THERE ARE NO TIPS ON TOP.

IF OUR FOLKS ARE MAKING GOOD TIPS, THAN WHAT WE ARE ASKING FOR IS TO ALLOW FOLKS TO LIVE IN THE CITY OF CHICAGO.

THE AVERAGE ONE BEDROOM APARTMENT IN SOME OF MY COMMUNITIES ARE $1,800 A MONTH.

WOMEN WITH FAMILIES DESERVE TO WORK IN THE HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY AND PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILIES AND NOT HAVE TO WORK TWO OR THROW JOBS TO DO SO.

>> WOULD IT HELP IF IT WAS PHASED IN OVER A FEW YEARS BE IT TWO OR FIVE?

>> MAYBE.

HERE'S THE CHALLENGE.

WE HAVE GONE TO $9.48 TO $15.80 AT LIGHTNING SPEED, OVER 60% INCREASE.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM THAT OPERATORS CAN'T ABSORB.

THERE IS ANOTHER WAY OF DOING THIS, I WELCOME THAT.

BUT IT IS A SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM.

ADDITIONALLY, WE HAVE BEEN CHALLENGED WITH THE PANDEMIC AS YOU KNOW.

WE ARE DEALING WITH INFLATION, CRIME, PROPERTY TAXES AS WELL.

WE ARE THE EMPLOYER AND TAKES THAT AS AN EMPLOYER RATHER SERIOUSLY.

THEY ARE FAMILY TO US.

WE ARE HERE TO PROTECT THEM, ABSOLUTELY WHICH IS WHY WE SAID EARLIER, WE ARE IN FACT MEETING THE MINIMUM WAMG AND THEN SOME.

THE BEST THING TO DO QUITE FRANKLY IS TO ABOLISH THE ORDINANCE, LET IT GO AWAY.

>> EVERY TIME IT IS TIME TO RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE, IT IS ALWAYS, YOU ALWAYS SAY THAT YOU ARE GOING TO CLOSE THE RESTAURANT, WORKERS ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE IT.

THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME.

THIS IS THE SECOND ADMINISTRATION THAT HAS IGNORED AND ALWAYS LEADS TO WORKERS OUT.

I AM A WORKER MYSELF.

I WAS MAKING $4.95 HERE IN CHICAGO.

I HAVE STRUGGLED.

I HAVE BEEN IN CHICAGO 51 YEARS OF MY LIFE.

AND I HAVE STRUGGLED WHEN I DECIDED TO BE A TIP WORKER.

AND WE SHOULD WORK WITH DIGNITY.

WE SHOULDN'T JUST BE PAID LOW WAGES.

>> WE ALL AGREE THAT WE WANT OUR EMPLOYEES TO MAKE A FAIR WAGE.

WHAT I HAVE SEEN THROUGHOUT MY CAREER AND --.

>> I HAVE BEEN IT IN FOR 15 YEARS.

>> EVERYONE AGREES WHAT IS BEST FOR OUR GUESTS AND BEST FOR OUR EMPLOYEES IS ALSO WHAT IS BEST FOR OUR BUSINESSES.

>> AND THEY WANT TO KNOW THAT YOU CAN PAY WORKERS WITHOUT LIVING IN POVERTY.

THAT'S WHAT GUESTS WANT TO KNOW.

>> I WANT TO GET TO -- WE ONLY HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT, ANN MARIE, WOULD TIPPING LIVE ON IF THE RAISE WERE TO GO INTO EFFECT?

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PLACES WHERE ORDINANCES LIKE THIS HAVE PASSED.

WE TALKED ABOUT SEVEN CITIES AND STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

ON THE WEST COAST, CALIFORNIA, OREGON, WASHINGTON, AND WASHINGTON D.C. >> AND MINNESOTA.

>> WE HAVE SEEN IN THOSE PLACES MENU PRICES INCREASE DRAMATICALLY.

WE SEE HOURS BEING CUT, PEOPLE WITH LESS SENIORITY AND PEOPLE WITH LESS EXPERIENCE.

WE SEE TECHNOLOGY AND AUTOMATION REPLACING HUMANS.

WE DON'T WANT THAT.

>> AUTOMATIC IS NOT GOING TO REPLACE SOMEONE SITTING DOWN TO EAT.

>> IT ALREADY IS HAPPENING.

IT IS ALREADY HAPPENING AT GROCERY STORES AND BANKS.

>> IT IS NOT GOING TO DO THAT.

THAT'S NOT TRUE.

>> I WANT YOU TOLOOK AT ALL OF THE STORES THAT ARE CLOSED.

>> IT IS NOT CLOSING BECAUSE THEY RAISED RATES.

>> IT IS BECOMING VERY EXPENSIVE TO DO BUSINESS.

>> YOU HAVE TO PUT MONEY INTO THE WUSHERS.

>> NATHANK YOU SO MUCH.

YOU HAVE THE BACKING OF THE MAYOR AND 25 SPONSORS.

WE WILL KEEP AN EYE ON WHAT IS GOING FORWARD.

I WANT TO THANK MY GUESTS.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> UP NEXT, GOOGLE IS IN COURT AND WE HAVE THE LATEST, STAY WITH US.

>>> WHERE HAVE WE BEEN?

WHERE ARE WE AT?

WHERE ARE WE GOING?

>> TO BE ABLE TO HELP EVERYONE AND ANYONE IN THE COMMUNITY, WHETHER THAT IS THROUGH ACADEMIC SUPPORT, SOCIAL, EMOTIONAL LEARNING, THE SPACE THAT TAKES PLACE TO BE THERE.

>> THIS IS THE FABRIC OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

♪ ♪ >>> SHE IS AN ARTIST, AN ANIMAL LOVER, A TEACHER AND NATIVE OF UKRAINE.

A CHICAGO RESIDENT FOR 30 PLUS YEARS, ELENA DELENGO USES HER TALENT TO TEACH TRADITIONAL FOLK ART AND RAISE AWARENESS OF THE ONGOING WAR IN THE COUNTRY WHERE SHE WAS BORN.

OUR PRODUCER RECENTLY BROUGHT US THIS STORY AND HERE'S ANOTHER LOOK.

>> I CAN'T THINK OF A BETTER MOMENT OR A BETTER PLACE TO NAME SOMETHING IN HIS HONOR THAN TO NAME SOMETHING IN HIS HONOR THAT IS COMMITTED TO SELF DETERMINATION AND THAT IS AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

♪ ♪ >>> WE FIRST MET ELENA DELENGO AT THE NATIONAL MUSEUM IN 2022.

SHOEFS SELLING HER ART TO BENEFIT THE RED CROSS IN UKRAINE, ULTIMATELY RAISING NEARLY $50,000.

MANY WORKS WERE PAINTED ON GLASS.

NOW THE ARTIST, A GOLDEN APPLE AWARD WINNING TEACHER IS GIVING LESSONS ON HOW TO MAKE THE TRADITIONAL FORM OF ART THAT FLOURISHED IN THE 16th CENTURY.

>> IT BASICALLY SELLS TO ARTISTS, STARTED TO PAINT ON GLASS AND THE SCENES WERE MOSTLY FROM THE BIBLE.

SO YOU CAN SEE A LOT OF VIRGIN MARYS, A LOT OF ICONS AND SAINTS.

A FEW HUNDRED YEARS LATER, A LOT OF SELF TAUGHT ARTISTS LIVED IN DIFFERENT VILLAGES AND STARTED TO PAINT ON GLASS.

THEIR SCENES WERE PRIMARILY VILLAGE SCENES.

SO THEY WOULD DRAW PEASANTS, THEY WOULD DRAW ANIMALS.

IT WAS REALLY A PRIMITIVE STYLE OF PAINTING.

IT LOOKS VERY AUTHENTIC, VERY BRIGHT, AND ALWAYS WITH BLACK OUTLINES.

>> Reporter: SHE STILL RAISES MONEY FOR THE WAR EFFORT AND SHE HAS A NEW CAUSE.

HER FRIEND, A PARISH PRIEST NEAR UKRAINE HAS BEEN CARING FOR THE MANY ANIMALS DISPLACED BY THE WAR.

>> HE STARTED PICKING THEM UP FROM THE EASTERN REGIONS AND STARTED FEEDING THEM, GIVING THEM MEDICAL TREATMENTS.

I ASKED HIM HOW MANY CATS OR DOGS HAVE YOU SAID 100, 200?

AND HE SAID AFTER 200, HE STOPPED COUNTING.

>> Reporter: HIS EFFORTS HAVE SAVED MANY MORE ANIMALS.

TO BENEFIT THE ANIMAL SHELTER, HE NOW LEADS CLASSES ON HOW TO MAKE A PAINTING USING GLASS AS A CANVAS.

>> MY FIRST CLASS HAD ABOUT 23 PEOPLE AND SOME OF THEM HAD NO IDEA HOW TO PAINT.

I TOLD THEM NOT TO WORRY.

I HAVE A LOT OF SKETCHES OF MY OWN THAT I GAVE THEM.

IF YOU HAVE TO WRITE ANYTHING THAT YOU WISH TO WRITE, YOU HAVE TO WRITE BACKWARDS.

YOU PAINT ON ONE SIDE AND THE IMAGE IS ON THE OTHER OPPOSITE SIDE.

I'M AN ARTIST AND I'M AN EDUCATOR.

I'M DOING THIS BECAUSE I JUST CANNOT NOT DO IT.

I HAVE TO DO IT TO STAY SANE.

IT HELPS ME BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE, WHAT'S THE POINT TO CRY?

YOU HAVE TO PUT YOURSELF TOGETHER AND THINK WHAT YOU CAN DO TO HELP.

SO LIKE A SOLDIER.

THAT'S HOW I FEEL.

>> Reporter: FOR CHICAGO TONIGHT, THIS IS MARK PATEL.

>> HER NEXT CLASS IS OCTOBER 7th AT THE UKRAINIAN INSTITUTE OF MODERN ART.

CLASSES COST $60 AND BENEFIT VETERANS OF UKRAINE WAR AND DISPLACED ANIMALS AND PETS.

FIND OUT HOW TO REACH HER ON OUR WEBSITE.

>>> IT IS THE U.S.

VERSUS GOOGLE IN PERHAPS THE MOST IMPORTANT ANTITRUST CASE EVER.

THE SEARCH ENGINE GIANT WAS IN COURT FOR A CASE BROUGHT BY THE U.S. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.

THEY MAINTAIN GOOGLE MAINTAINS A MONOPOLY BY PAYING OTHER COMPANIES TO MAKE GOOGLE THE DEFAULT BROWSER ON THEIR SMART PHONES.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THE COMPANY AND THE FUTURE OF THE INTERNET?

JOINING US NOW ARE RANDALL PICKER, PROFESSOR OF LAW AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO WHERE HIS INTERESTS INCLUDE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY, COMPETITION IN ANTITRUST LAW AND SPENCER WEBER WALLER, FROM THE INSTITUTE OF ANTITRUST STUDIES, AND PROFESSOR AT LOYOLA UNIVERSITY CHICAGO SCHOOL OF LAW, THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

RANDALL PICKER, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL ON THIS CASE, WHAT IS AT STAKE?

>> GOOGLE IS AN INCREDIBLE PRODUCT.

IT IS VERY SUCCESSFUL.

THE QUESTION IS ARE THEY DOING IT LEGITIMATELY?

ARE THEY COMPETING FAIRLY NOW?

>> AND SPENCER WEBER WALLER, WHAT IS THE GOVERNMENT'S CASE THAT PERHAPS THEY ARE NOT?

>> IT IS REALLY TWO PARTS FOR ANY MAW NAUPALIZATION CASE.

THEY ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF GOOGLE HAS A MONOPOLY IN SEARCH AND ADVERTISING AND DID THEY MAINTAIN IT BY ANTICOMPETITIVE MEANS.

>> AND IS THE CRUX OF THE CASE THAT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN PAYMENTS TO THE iPHONE AND SMART PHONE OPERATORS TO MAKE GOOGLE THE DEFAULT SEARCH ENGINE?

IS THAT THE DISHONEST MEANS?

>> I DON'T WANT TO CHARACTERIZE THAT IT IS DISHONEST BUT THAT'S WHAT THE GOVERNMENT WANTS.

THE CONTRACT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT GOES WAY BACK.

THE FIRST WAS MOZILA FIRE FOX 2004, APPLE 2005, A LITTLE BEFORE THE iPHONE.

THESE CONTRACTS WERE PUT IN PLACE AT A POINT WHERE IT WASN'T CLEAR WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN AND MOST CONTRACTS MOVED FORWARD AND NOW THEY PRODUCED THE RESULTS THAT ARE DRAMATIC.

>> DO YOU THINK THESE CONTRACTS PERHAPS DO PREVENT OTHER SEARCH ENGINES FROM COMING IN AND COMPETING?

>> YEAH, THE POINT IS CONTRACTS THAT HAVE A LEGITIMATE PURPOSE CAN HAVE AN ILL LEGITIMATE EFFECT.

THE SIZE, SCALE, AND POWER OF GOOGLE CAN BE REINFORCED IN A WAY THAT PREVENTS EVEN BETTER PRODUCTS FROM COMING ON THE MARKET.

>> SO WHAT IS GOOGLE'S DEFENSE HERE?

>> GOOGLE'S DEFENSE IS THAT THEY HAVE NEGOTIATED THESE CONTRACTS WITH COMPANIES THAT HAVE LEGITIMATE RIGHTS.

THERE IS AN IMPORTANT QUESTION ON HOW PEOPLE THINK BROWSERS WILL MAKE MONEY.

IN THE MICROSOFT CASE, IT WAS ABOUT THE QUESTION OF COULD MICROSOFT SOMEHOW DEFEAT NET SCAPE NAVIGATOR.

THAT MARKET THAT ONCE PAID FOR SOFTWARE.

NO ONE PAYS FOR THE SOFTWARE ANYMORE.

SO GOOGLE WANTS TO BUY THE EYE BALLS FROM FIRE FOX AND APPLE.

APPLE AND FIRE FOX SHOULD WE ABLE TO SELL THE EYE BALLS LIKE OTHER MEDIA COMPANIES DO.

>> GOOGLE HAS 90% OF THE SEARCH ENGINE MARKET.

IS THAT ALONE A MONOPOLY?

>> IT MAY MAKE THEM A MONOPOLY BUT YOU HAVE TO SHOW IT AND THE GOVERNMENT AND COMPANY WILL FIGHT ABOUT IT.

I THINK THAT IS A RELATIVELY GOOD CASE FOR THE GOVERNMENT.

IT COMES DOWN TO THE EFFECTS OF THE CONTRACT.

IT IS SLR TO WHAT HAPPENED IN THE MICROSOFT CASE WHERE A COMPANY THAT DEVELOPED A GOOD PRODUCT OPERATING SYSTEM MAINTAINED THEIR MONOPOLY THROUGH EXCLUSIVE CONTRACTS THAT PREVENTED THE NEXT BIG THING FROM HAPPENING AND TAKING THEM DOWN.

>> A LOT OF ONLOOKERS ARE SAYING THIS CASE WILL DETERMINE A LOT ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE INTERNET.

WHAT IS AT STAKE FOR THE FUTURE OF THE INTERNET?

SAY GOOGLE WINS THIS CASE?

>> WHEN THE AI OVERLORDS COME, WHAT WILL THEY SAY ABOUT THE CASE?

>> I WANT TO SAY WE ARE AT A NEXT POINT.

THE EMERGENCE OF AI AND CHAT GPT, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING TOHAPPEN TO THE INTERNET NEXT.

I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD OVERREACH HERE.

WE SHOULD DECIDE THE CASE AND FIGURE OUT WHAT MAKES SENSE HERE AND IT WILL FIGURE ITSELF OUT GOING FORWARD.

>> SAY THE GOVERNMENT PROVES THE CASE THAT THIS IS AN ILLEGAL ANTITRUST SITUATION.

THEN WHAT HAPPENS TO GOOGLE?

>> SO IF THEY WIN, THEY SHOW THEM A MONOPOLIZATION AND THE ILLEGAL ACTIVITY.

THE COURT WILL ISSUE AN ORDER SHOWING THAT THE COMPANY HAS TO STOP THE ACTIVITIES FOUND TO BE ILLEGAL.

THEY WILL DO WHAT IS NECESSARY AND CONSIDER WHETHER GOOGLE NEEDS TO DEVEST RGS SELL, LICENSE, THE STRUCTURE OF THE COMPANY.

HOPEFULLY WE GET A BETTER RESULT THAN THE MICROSOFT CASE WHERE THE COMPANY WAS TOLD TO STOP DOING CERTAIN THINGS BUT IT DIDN'T MAKE MUCH DIFFERENCE IN THE MARKET WITH THE EXCEPTION THAT IT ALLOWED GOOGLE TO COME IN.

HOPEFULLY THIS WILL ALLOW THE NEXT GREAT THING FOR COMING IN.

>> WHAT WE MAY GET IS WHAT LIFE LOOKS LIKE IN EUROPE RIGHT NOW.

WHAT LIFE LOOKS LIKE IN EUROPE RIGHT NOW IS WHEN YOU TURN ON THE ANDROID PHONE, THE FIRST TIME YOU WANT TO USE A SEARCH ENGINE, YOU GET A CHOICE SCREEN.

THEY SAY WHICH ONE DO YOU WANT TO USE?

MOST CHOOSE GOOGLE DO THEY OUT LAW THOSE CONTRACTS IN EUROPE?

>> THERE WAS A VERSION OF THIS CASE THAT RAN THROUGH THE EUROPEAN UNION.

IN THAT SITUATION GOOGLE LOST.

THE CHOICE SCREEN THAT POPS UP THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU TURN ON YOUR PHONE, THAT WAS THE REMEDY.

NO ONE WAS BROKEN UP.

>> MAYBE THAT IS A REMEDY.

IS IT BETTER FOR THE CONSUMER TO HAVE THE CHOICE?

>> IN GENERAL, YES.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE BUT COMPETITION LAW IS ABOUT CHOICE AND A PROCESS OF COMPETITION.

IT IS NOT ABOUT AN AUTOMATIC OUTCOME ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

>> AGREE WITH THAT COMPLETELY.

>> ALREADY, GREEING ON SOME THINGS ASK DISGREEING ON OTHERS.

THIS IS A FASCINATING CASE.

WE THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

THAT IS OUR SHOW FOR THIS TUESDAY NIGHT.

JOIN US TOMORROW NIGHT AT 5:30 AND 10:00.

FROM ALL OF US HERE AT CHICAGO TONIGHT, I'M PARIS SCHUTZ, STAY HEALTHY AND SAFE.

WE WILL SEE YOU TOMORROW.

>>> CLOSED CAPTIONING IS MADE POSSIBLE BY ROBERT A. CLIFFORD AND CLIFFORD LAW OFFICES, A CHICAGO PERSONAL INJURY AND