♪♪♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> WORLD LEADERS ARE LAUGHING AT DONALD TRUMP.

>> KAMALA HARRIS MAKES HER CASE.

WE GET GLOBAL REACTION TO THE HIGH STAKES DEBATE, AS THE CLOCK TICKS DOWN TO ELECTION DAY.

>>> THEN -- >> I WANTED TO INVITE US TO TRULY IMAGINE ALL OF THE WAYS SLAVERY STILL LIVES WITH US.

>> "SLAVE PLAY."

JEREMY O. HARRIS JOINS ME ON HIS BROADWAY HIT TAKING LONDON BY STORM.

PLUS -- >> YOU CAN NO LONGER SIT ON THE SIDELINE, BECAUSE IT REALLY IS AN ATTACK ON THE LATINO COMMUNITY.

>> AN UNPRECEDENTED ENDORSEMENT.

JUAN PROANO TELLS MICHEL MARTIN WHY THE LARGEST LATINO CIVIL RIGHTS ASSOCIATION IS THROWING ITS WEIGHT BEHIND THE VICE PRESIDENT.

♪♪♪ >>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

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AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

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AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IN LONDON.

PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN WAS IN DOWNTOWN NEW YORK TODAY, MARKING THE 9/11 ANNIVERSARY, ALONGSIDE THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, AS BOTH KAMALA HARRIS AND DONALD TRUMP WERE THERE, TOO.

JUST HOURS EARLIER, BOTH OF THEM HAD BEEN SPARRING ON STAGE IN PHILADELPHIA.

THE FIRST AND POTENTIALLY THE ONLY DEBATE.

THE FORMER PRESIDENT SAYS HE'S NOT SURE HE WANTS TO DO A SECOND ONE.

THE VICE PRESIDENT BY ALMOST ALL ACCOUNTS MANAGING TO MAKE A CASE FOR HERSELF AND DOMINATING THE ENTIRE ENCOUNTER.

>> REMEMBER THIS, SHE IS BIDEN, YOU KNOW, SHE'S TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM BIDEN.

I DON'T KNOW THE GENTLEMAN, SHE SAYS.

SHE IS BIDEN.

THE WORST INFLATION WE'VE EVER HAD, A HORRIBLE ECONOMY, BECAUSE INFLATION HAS MADE IT SO BAD.

AND SHE CAN'T GET AWAY WITH THAT.

>> I WANT TO RESPOND TO THAT, JUST BRIEFLY.

CLEARLY, I AM NOT JOE BIDEN.

AND I AM CERTAINLY NOT DONALD TRUMP.

AND WHAT I DO OFFER IS A NEW GENERATION OF LEADERSHIP FOR OUR COUNTRY.

ONE WHO BELIEVES IN WHAT IS POSSIBLE, ONE WHO BRINGS A SENSE OF OPTIMISM ABOUT WHAT WE CAN DO, INSTEAD OF ALWAYS DISPARAGING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

>> NOW, WHILE HARRIS APPEARED TO GET OUT ALL HER TALKING POINTS, TRUMP STAYED VERY MUCH ON HIS MESSAGE.

TAKING THE BAIT ON CROWD SIZES, SPOUTING FALSEHOODS ABOUT LATE-TERM ABORTION, AND EVEN SUGGESTING BIZARRE AND DEBUNKED LIES ABOUT IMMIGRANTS EATING PEOPLE'S PETS.

SO, LET'S DIG INTO WHAT HAPPENED, WHAT IT MEANS, AND WHAT COMES NEXT.

FINTAN O'TOOLE JOINING ME FROM DUBLIN.

FROM NEW YORK, MARIA HINOJOSA, A PULITZER PRIZE-WINNING JOURNALIST.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

SO, LET'S JUST START BY SAYING, TO THE WORLD AND TO THE UNITED STATES, IT WAS REALLY KAMALA HARRIS WHO HAD TO MAKE HERSELF KNOWN, WHO HAD TO, YOU KNOW, SHOW WHO SHE WAS, BECAUSE BY AND LARGE, EVERYBODY IN THE U.S. AND AROUND THE WORLD KNOWS WHO DONALD TRUMP IS, RIGHT?

SO, I WANT TO ASK ABOUT THE WORLD FIRST, FINTAN.

DO YOU THINK THAT THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED?

DO YOU THINK HARRIS WAS ABLE TO SHOW OFF WHO SHE IS?

>> I THINK SHE WAS ABLE TO SHOW OFF WHO SHE IS, I'M NOT SURE SHE WAS ABLE TO SHOW OFF WHAT SHE THINKS.

SO, JUST AT A PERSONAL LEVEL, DID SHE LOOK LIKE SOMEONE WHO WOULD BE CREDIBLE TO THE REST OF THE WORLD AS A POTENTIAL OCCUPANT OF THE OVAL OFFICE, YES, SHE DID.

SHE WAS AUTHORITATIVE, SHE WAS CONFIDENT, SHE COMPLETELY REFUSED TO BE BULLIED BY TRUMP.

AT TIMES, SHE WAS QUITE ELOQUENT.

SO, AT THAT SORT OF SIMPLE PERSONAL LEVEL, YES, SHE PULLED IT OFF.

IT HAS TO BE SAID, THOUGH, THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE LOOKING FROM THE OUTSIDE IN, YOU KNOW, NO DISCUSSION OF CLIMATE CHANGE UNTIL LITERALLY THE VERY LAST SEGMENT OF THE DEBATE.

THEY WERE GIVEN ONE MINUTE EACH TO TALK ABOUT THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE FACING THE WORLD.

NO DISCUSSION, REALLY, ABOUT AMERICA'S PLACE IN THE WORLD.

SO, WE HAD A KIND OF BACK AND FORWARD RATHER USELESS KIND OF SCRAPPING ABOUT AFGHANISTAN, AND WHO WAS MORE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE HUMILIATING CIRCUMSTANCES OF AMERICA'S WITHDRAWAL, BUT NO REFLECTION OF ANY KIND, WHAT AFGHANISTAN MIGHT TELL US ABOUT, YOU KNOW, AMERICAN MILITARY MIGHT IN THE 21st CENTURY.

AND YOU COULD GO ON, REALLY, THROUGH, OF COURSE, GAZA, REALLY -- DEBATE AROUND THAT, WITH TRUMP JUST SAYING SHE HATES ISRAEL, AND KAMALA HARRIS GIVING A FAIRLY KIND OF BLAND OUTLINE OF A FAMILIAR POLICY.

SO, WE DIDN'T GET A LOT OF SUBSTANCE IN TERMS OF WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THE WORLD.

>> MARIA, DO YOU SEE IT AS WHAT IT MEANS FOR THE WORLD AND FOR THE UNITED STATES?

UP UNTIL NOW, KAMALA HARRIS HAS BEEN QUESTIONED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, QUESTIONS SURROUND HER ABOUT WHAT SHE STANDS FOR, WHAT SHE WOULD DO, AND, YOU KNOW, EVEN JUST BEFORE THIS DEBATE, TWO "NEW YORK TIMES" COLUMNISTS BASICALLY THOUGHT TRUMP WOULD EEK IT OUT IN NOVEMBER.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE TAKEAWAY FOR AMERICAN VOTERS AFTER THE DEBATE?

>> I MEAN, KAMALA HARRIS IS IN A DIFFICULT SITUATION, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, SHE IS A BLACK WOMAN, SHE IS AN ASIAN WOMAN.

SHE'S A WOMAN.

AND SO -- AND YOU KNOW THIS, CHRISTIANE, WE -- WE CAN'T LOSE IT IN THE MIDDLE OF A DEBATE AND SAY YOU'RE CRAZY AND YOU'RE LYING, WHICH I THINK SHE PROBABLY WANTED TO SAY.

BUT SHE HAS TO KEEP THAT UNDER CONTROL TO PRESENT HERSELF AS PRESIDENTIAL.

YOU KNOW, HAVING JUST BEEN IN SOUTH FLORIDA TALKING WITH LATINO AND LATINA VOTERS WHO ARE CONSUMING MIS AND DISINFORMATION THAT'S COMING AT THEM THROUGH YOUTUBE AND OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA, MAN OF THEM SAYING THEY LIKE WHAT THEY HEAR FROM DONALD TRUMP, AND SO, WATCHING DONALD TRUMP AT THE BEGINNING JUST KIND OF IN THE BARRAGE, JUST COMING, YOU KNOW, REALLY BULLYING AND COMING AFTER HER, ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES SAID, I'M VENEZUELAN, I KNOW WHAT A STRONGMAN LOOKS LIKE, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT DONALD TRUMP IS GIVING.

SO, IT'S HARD FOR ME TO SAY THAT SHE ABSOLUTELY WON THE DEBATE HANDS DOWN, BECAUSE HOW DO YOU EFFECTIVELY DEBATE WITH SOMEONE, AND I'M GOING TO SAY THIS, AND I KNOW THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE A LITTLE SHOCKED, BUT DONALD TRUMP IS A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR.

HE LIES EVERY OTHER SENTENCE, IT'S A LIE.

SO, WHEN YOU'RE IN A DEBATE LIKE THAT, YOU REALLY CAN'T WIN.

WHAT SHE DID DO IS, SHE DID NOT ENGAGE, WHICH IS PRETTY HEROIC, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT I WAS ENGAGING JUST FROM MY LITTLE PERCH, I WAS TAKING NOTES AND ENGAGING, SO, IN THAT SENSE, SHE DID HOLD IT TOGETHER, AND IN THAT SENSE, DID LOOK PRETTY PRESIDENTIAL.

>> SO, I WANT TO ALSO FOLLOW UP, AND IT'S AN ISSUE THAT I CAN ASK BOTH OF YOU FAIRLY, BECAUSE IT'S AN ISSUE THAT IS BOTH A MATTER FOR THE U.S. AND ACTUALLY FOR IRELAND AND THE REST OF THE WORLD.

SO, WOMEN WERE FRONT AND CENTER, THAT IS AN ISSUE, WAS REALLY SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT.

THE IDEA THAT WOMEN IN AMERICA HAVE NOW BEEN DENIED THEIR RIGHTS OVER THEIR OWN BODIES, THEIR OWN FREE WILL, BECAUSE OF DONALD TRUMP'S APPOINTMENTS TO THE SUPREME COURT, WAS CERTAINLY ON DISPLAY.

DONALD TRUMP HIMSELF, YOU KNOW HOW THEY GO.

THE RIGHT IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE A VERY, VERY EXTREME VERSION OF ABORTION, YOU KNOW, THEIR CRITICISM, I'M GOING TO PLAY WHAT DONALD TRUMP SAID ABOUT IT.

>> BUT HER VICE PRESIDENTIAL PICK SAYS ABORTION IN THE NINTH MONTH IS ABSOLUTELY FINE.

HE ALSO SAYS EXECUTION AFTER BIRTH.

IT'S EXECUTION, NO LONGER ABORTION, BECAUSE THE BABY IS BORN, IS OKAY.

AND THAT'S NOT OKAY WITH ME.

>> THERE IS NO STATE IN THIS COUNTRY WHERE IT IS LEGAL TO KILL A BABY AFTER IT IS BORN.

>> SO, THAT WAS THE MODERATOR, ONE OF THE MODERATORS, WHO WAS FACT-CHECKING IN REAL-TIME.

BUT I ACTUALLY WANT TO ASK YOU, FINTAN, FIRST.

WHEN YOU HEAR A FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES SAYING THINGS LIKE THAT, WHICH ARE EXTREME, AND I COULD SEE MARIA SHAKING HER HEAD IN HORROR, AND YOU AND YOUR COUNTRY HAVE HAD A MAJOR DEBATE FOR YEARS AND DECADES, YOU HAD A REFERENDUM, IT'S A CATHOLIC COUNTRY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK WHEN YOU HEAR THE FORMER PRESIDENT, WHAT DO WOMEN THINK AROUND THE WORLD?

>> YOU KNOW, COMING FROM WHERE I COME FROM, AS YOU SAY, I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT EVEN THOUGH THE OVERTURNING OF ROE VERSUS WADE WAS ABSOLUTELY APPALLING FOR AMERICAN WOMEN, IT WOULD ALSO, IN THE END, BE A HUGE DISADVANTAGE FOR THE REPUBLICANS AND FOR TRUMP.

BECAUSE GETTING RID OF ROE VERSUS WADE TURNS THE ISSUE AROUND FROM BEING AGAINST ABORTION TO, WHAT ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF THEN?

WHAT -- WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK SHOULD HAPPEN TO WOMEN WHO ARE IN CRISIS PREGNANCIES?

AND I THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS AN ISSUE ON WHICH TRUMP OUGHT TO HAVE BEEN BETTER PREPARED, FOR A START.

YOU WOULD HAVE THOUGHT HE WOULD HAVE HAD SOMETHING INTELLIGENT TO SAY ABOUT IT.

HE WAS COMPLETELY ALL OVER THE PLACE.

HE WAS UNABLE, REALLY, TO GIVE ANY CLEAR ANSWERS TO WHETHER OR NOT HE WOULD SIGN A NATIONWIDE ABORTION BAN.

AND THEN, AS WE JUST SAW, HE RESORTED TO THE TALKING POINTS OF THE MOST EXTREME FUNDAMENTALIST ANTI-ABORTION PEOPLE, WHICH IS THIS CLAIM -- WHICH IS, OF COURSE, AS MARIA WAS SAYING, A LIE, HE LIES, AND IT WAS -- BUT I THINK, FOR MOST WOMEN WATCHING IT, IT WAS A LIE TOO FAR.

AND I THINK HARRIS DID VERY WELL BY PICKING UP ON THAT, YOU KNOW, AND SHE SAID, THIS IS AN INSULT TO WOMEN.

PICKING UP ON THE FACT THAT -- WHAT HE WAS BASICALLY SAYING WAS, WOMEN WANT TO MURDER THEIR BABIES.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND IT -- LEAVING ASIDE THE ETHICS OF THIS ARE THE TRUTH OF IT, JUST POLITICALLY, IT SEEMS TO ME TO BE EXTRAORDINARILY STUPID.

IF YOU REALLY WANT TO MOTIVATE WOMEN TO TURN OUT AND VOTE AND TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AND THEIR DAUGHTERS AND THEIR MOTHERS, I THOUGHT TRUMP WAS GIVING ENORMOUS AMMUNITION TO THE DEMOCRATS.

>> AND SO, MARIA, I'M GOING TO PLAY SOME OF WHAT THE VICE PRESIDENT RESPONDED, AND THEN WE'LL QUICKLY CHAT ABOUT IT AFTERWARDS.

>> IF DONALD TRUMP WERE TO BE RE-ELECTED, HE WILL SIGN A NATIONAL ABORTION BAN.

UNDERSTAND IN HIS PROJECT 2025, THERE WOULD BE A NATIONAL ABORTION -- A MONITOR THAT WOULD BE MONITORING YOUR PREGNANCIES, YOUR MISCARRIAGES.

I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT CERTAIN FREEDOMS, IN PARTICULAR, THE FREEDOM TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT ONE'S OWN BODY, SHOULD NOT BE MADE BY THE GOVERNMENT.

>> SO, MARIA, DO YOU THINK THAT AS FINTAN SAID, AS WE'VE ALL BEEN COVERING, THERE IS A BIG BACKLASH AROUND THE COUNTRY, IN BOTH PARTIES, FRANKLY, AMUNGS PEOPLE, TO THE RESTRICTIONS BY REMOVING ROE VERSUS WADE.

DO YOU THINK THAT HE DID HIMSELF MORE DAMAGE WITH WOMEN?

>> LOOK, I THINK THAT DONALD TRUMP LOOKS KIND OF ACTUALLY FLIP-FLOPPY ON THE ISSUE OF ABORTION, AND BEING OUT ON THE STREETS AND TALKING WITH VOTERS AND VERY EXTREME ANTI-ABORTION VOTERS, THEY ACTUALLY DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT HE'S, LIKE, WELL, I'M FOR IVF, I'M AGAINST IVF, YOU KNOW, I'M OKAY WITH EXCEPTIONS.

THE PEOPLE WHO I SPEAK TO, WHO I SPOKE TO WHEN I WAS DOING THIS REPORTING, WERE LIKE, NO EXCEPTIONS, AND A WOMAN GOES TO PRISON IF SHE ATTEMPTS TO HAVE AN ABORTION.

WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO REALIZE, CHRISTIANE, AND YOU KNOW THIS, BECAUSE YOU'VE COVERED IT, IS THAT THE MAJORITY -- I CAN'T SAY THE MAJORITY 100%, I DON'T HAVE THE DATA, BUT MANY, MANY WOMEN WHO ARE HAVING ABORTIONS, AND I HAD TWO OF THEM, OKAY, AND I'M OKAY SAYING THAT, BECAUSE I HAVE TWO ADULT CHILDREN, I'VE BEEN MARRIED FOR 34 YEARS, I'M OKAY, BUT MANY OF THE WOMEN WHO ARE HAVING ABORTIONS ALREADY HAVE CHILDREN.

MANY -- WHEN I WAS IN NEW MEXICO, WITNESSING AND REPORTING ON THIS, WHO IS THE FIRST PERSON WE SAW COMING INTO THE ABORTION CLINIC IN ALBUQUERQUE TO GET AN ABORTION?

WAS A TEENAGE LATINA GIRL ACCOMPANIED BY HER PARENTS.

SO, THIS NOTION, THESE LIES, THAT WOMEN ARE JUST, LIKE, OH, MY GOD, IT'S EIGHT MONTHS IN, I THINK I'M JUST GOING TO TERMINATE -- THAT IS NOT HOW WOMEN THINK.

THE QUESTION IS WHETHER OR NOT WHITE WOMEN WILL CHOOSE TO SIDE WITH REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS AND OUR CHOICES FOR OUR BODIES, OR WILL THEY CHOOSE TO SIDE WITH FEAR, IMMIGRANTS ARE TAKING OVER, THE COUNTRY'S GOING UNDER, AND EVERYTHING IS ABOUT FEAR, AND THAT -- WE DON'T KNOW.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE.

IT COULD BE BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP IS SO EXTREME, THAT MAYBE THERE'S SOME LOOSENING AND WHITE WOMEN WILL END UP VOTING FOR KAMALA.

>> AND FINTAN, WHAT DO YOU THINK -- WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN SEEING IN THE INTERNATIONAL PRESS, IN IRELAND OR ELSEWHERE, ABOUT THE REACTION AND ABOUT THE GENERAL CONCERN, BECAUSE EVERYBODY AROUND THE WORLD, FRANKLY, IS WATCHING AND WONDERING WHO IS GOING TO WIN THIS ELECTION, AND EVERYBODY HAS A VIEW ABOUT WHO IT SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T BE.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE -- AS THE REACTION AFTER THE DEBATE?

>> SO, I THINK WE ALL KNOW THAT THIS IS ON A KNIFE EDGE, AND MARIA'S BEEN DOING THE WORK ON -- ON THE GROUND AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE, BORNE OUT BY POLLING.

SO, WE KNOW IN A WAY THAT -- THE DEBATE OUGHT TO HAVE BEEN AIMED, REALLY, AT QUITE A SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE, RIGHT?

WHICH IS THE SHRINKING NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES WHO ARE NOT, YOU KNOW, PARTISAN ENOUGH TO KNOW EXACTLY HOW THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE ANYWAY.

AND I THINK FROM THAT POINT OF VIEW, I WOULD IMAGINE WHAT PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF AMERICA ARE LOOKING FOR IS TO SAY, WHAT'S LIKELY TO BE THE CONSEQUENCES HERE?

I THINK ON THE ONE SIDE, I THINK HARRIS WAS A PRETTY REASSURING PRESENCE, YOU KNOW, SHE REALLY DID LOOK LIKE SOMEONE WHO IS CAPABLE OF BEING PRESIDENT.

AND THIS WAS NOT TAKEN FOR GRANTED, YOU KNOW, SHE WAS IN THE SHADOW OF BIDEN FOR THE LAST 3 1/2 YEARS.

SHE HAD BEEN WRITTEN OFF AS A POLITICAL FORCE, SO, SHE NEEDED TO RE-ESTABLISH HERSELF.

I THINK SHE REDID THAT.

SO, THERE MIGHT BE A CERTAIN COMFORT IN THAT.

BUT THE BALANCING THING, THERE'S EVEN MORE CONCERN ABOUT WHAT A TRUMP PRESIDENT SI MIGHT BE LIKE.

LET'S FACE IT, TRUMP WAS MUCH WORSE LAST NIGHT THAN HE'S BEEN IN PREVIOUS DEBATES.

HE WAS MUCH WORSE COGNITIVELY, HE WAS MUCH CRAZIER.

HE WAS MUCH MORE EXTREME.

HIS LYING WAS KIND OF EVEN MORE OUTLANDISH.

AND THE AGE ISSUE, YOU KNOW, WHICH, AFTER ALL, YOU KNOW, DID FOR BIDEN'S PRESIDENCY, HAS COME BACK INTO PLAY.

I MEAN, TRUMP JUST LOOKED OLD, HE LOOKED LIKE SOMEONE WHO WAS INCAPABLE OF THINKING OF HIS FEET.

HE COULDN'T RESPOND OR REACT IN ANY KIND OF COHERENT WAY TO WHAT HARRIS WAS DOING.

HE ALLOWED HIMSELF VERY EASILY TO BE GOADED.

AND SO, EVEN LEAVING ASIDE ALL THE SORT OF SUBSTANTIVE POLICY ISSUES, THE IDEA OF TRUMP IN THE WHITE HOUSE, I THINK, BECOMES EVEN MORE HORRIFYING.

PEOPLE WERE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT A BIDEN PRESIDENCY MIGHT LOOK LIKE, I THINK THAT WORRY WITH TRUMP WAS -- WAS SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASED LAST NIGHT.

>> THAT'S INTERESTING.

AND AS YOU KNOW, MARIA, AND MAYBE YOU READ IT ALSO, FINTAN, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME ARTICLES RECENTLY WRITTEN BEFORE THE DEBATE ABOUT SO-CALLED WASHING, ABOUT HOW THE PRESS HAS FAILED TO ACCURATELY DOCUMENT WHAT YOU'VE JUST BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS -- THAT WAS A REALLY INTERESTING ARTICLE, AND I'M NOT SURE THAT WE'LL BE ABLE TO CONTINUE AFTER THE DEBATE, BUT MARIA, AGAIN, ABOUT THE WORLD.

PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS ASKED PRETTY MUCH A YES OR NO QUESTION ABOUT UKRAINE, FOR INSTANCE, THE SINGLE BIGGEST ISSUE FOR THE NORTH ATLANTIC ALLIANCE WITH THIS WAR IN EUROPE.

AND HE WAS UNABLE TO SAY YES OR NO AS TO WHO HE WANTED TO WIN.

UKRAINE OR PUTIN.

AND THIS WAS HARRIS' RESPONSE.

>> UNDERSTAND WHY THE EUROPEAN ALLIES AND OUR NATO ALLIES ARE SO THANKFUL THAT YOU ARE NO LONGER PRESIDENT AND THAT WE UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF THE GREATEST MILITARY ALLIANCE THE WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN, WHICH IS NATO.

AND WHAT WE HAVE DONE TO PRESERVE THE ABILITY OF ZELENSKYY AND THE UKRAINIANS TO FIGHT FOR THEIR INDEPENDENCE.

OTHERWISE, PUTIN WOULD BE SITTING IN KYIV WITH HIS EYES ON THE REST OF EUROPE, STARTING WITH POLAND, AND WHY DON'T YOU TELL THE 800,000 POLISH AMERICANS RIGHT HERE IN PENNSYLVANIA HOW QUICKLY YOU WOULD GIVE UP FOR THE SAKE OF FAVOR AND WHAT YOU THINK IS A FRIENDSHIP WITH WHAT IS KNOWN TO BE A DICTATOR WHO WOULD EAT YOU FOR LUNCH.

>> GOSH, I MEAN, THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH A DAGGER.

BUT MARIA, I WONDER HOW THAT WENT DOWN FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, BECAUSE THERE IS A MAJORITY OF THE AMERICANS WHO BELIEVE IN NATO, NOT JUST INDIVIDUALS, BUT ALSO BOTH SIDES OF CONGRESS, AND WHO BELIEVE IN AMERICA BEING IN NATO AND BELIEVE IN THAT WHOLE, YOU KNOW, TRANSATLANTIC ALLIANCE.

HOW DO YOU THINK THAT PARTICULAR FOREIGN POLICY ISSUE WOULD PLAY, WHETHER IT'S IN PENNSYLVANIA OR ANY OTHER SWING STATE OR AMUNGS UNDECIDED?

>> THE THING, CHRISTIANE, ON THE GROUND HERE IN THE U.S., WITH YOUNG VOTERS, PARTICULARLY YOUNG VOTERS WHO ARE NOT WHITE, THE ISSUE THAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT IS NOT UKRAINE.

THE ISSUE THAT IS -- THAT THEY'RE OBSESSED ABOUT, AND I WOULD SAY RIGHTLY SO, IS WHAT'S HAPPENING IN GAZA.

SO, THAT, I WOULD SAY, I WOULD HAVE LIKED FOR THE DEBATE TO HAVE SPENT A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME ON INTERNATIONAL ISSUES, ON THE QUESTION OF GAZA, AND I JUST HAVE TO SAY THAT IN THAT MOMENT, WHEN KAMALA LOOKS AT DONALD TRUMP AND SAYS THIS, RIGHT, WHEN SHE LOOKED AT HIM AND SAID IT TO HIS FACE, YOU ARE CONSIDERED A DISGRACE, ON THE INTERNATIONAL SCALE, THIS IS WHERE PEOPLE ARE JUST LIKE, WOW, THIS IS GOING TO BE THE PRESIDENT?

THIS IS GOING TO BE OUR PRESIDENT AGAIN, WHEN IT'S NOT JUST UKRAINE, NOW IT'S GAZA?

BUT SADLY, SHE WAS NOT ABLE TO SEAL THE DEAL ON THE QUESTION OF HER POSITION ON GAZA.

AND -- AND I THINK THAT THIS IS ONE OF THE MAIN POINTS FOR INTERNATIONAL FOREIGN POLICY THAT WILL, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I HATE TO SAY IT, BUT IT COULD MAKE OR BREAK HER ELECTION, AND SO, THAT'S -- THAT'S WHERE I WOULD BE FOCUSING THE ATTENTION NOW.

>> THAT IS REALLY INTERESTING.

WE'LL WAIT TO SEE IF, IN FACT, IN THE REMAINING DAYS BEFORE THE ELECTION, THAT THAT BECOMES MORE IN FOCUS.

BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU BOTH, AND CERTAINLY YOU, MARIA, BECAUSE IMMIGRATION IS A HUGE, SOME SAY NUMBER ONE ISSUE, THE ECONOMY AND IMMIGRATION IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND YOU TWEETED, YOU POSTED TODAY ABOUT THE SEPTEMBER 11th ANNIVERSARY, CALLING IT A SOBERING MOMENT, AND THE FACT IS THAT DOZENS OF UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS WHO WORKED AT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, YOU KNOW, DIED ON 9/11, THEY WERE KILLED.

AND DONALD TRUMP CALLS FOR MASS DEPORTATION OF WHAT AMOUNTS TO BE MORE THAN 11 MILLION UNDOCUMENTED AMERICANS.

WAS ANYTHING SAID LAST NIGHT, MARIA, THAT SHOWS ANY KIND OF ACTUAL ATTEMPT TO DEAL PROPERLY AND MATURELY WITH THIS IMMIGRATION ISSUE?

>> NO, AND ACTUALLY, I LIKED THE FACT THAT YOU USED THE WORD PROPERLY AND MATURELY.

HERE'S THE DATA.

HERE IS WHAT WE KNOW.

HERE ARE THE FACTS.

THAT DONALD TRUMP WILL DISPUTE, AS WE SAW HIM LAST NIGHT SAYING, WELL, I DON'T BELIEVE THE FBI DATA, AND IT'S JUST LIKE, OKAY.

BUT WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT VIOLENT CRIME HAS PLUMMETED IN THE UNITED STATES OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS BY ABOUT 50%.

AND WE ALSO KNOW, ACCORDING TO THE CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE, THAT THE U.S. ECONOMY HAS GROWN STEADILY OVER THE PAST 20 YEARS.

SO, WHAT WAS STRANGE, CHRISTIANE, WAS TO HEAR A LEGITIMATE QUESTION BEING ASKED ABOUT JANUARY 6th, RIGHT, WHAT I CALL THE BEGINNING OF THE PERPETUAL STATE OF ATTEMPTED COUP D'ETAT IN THE UNITED STATES, WHICH I BELIEVE WE ARE STILL LIVING IN, UNTIL DONALD TRUMP ACCEPTS THE RESULTS, ASSUMING HE LOSES IN THE ELECTION, AND AT THAT MOMENT, YOU KNOW, WE NEEDED TO SEE HOW HE WAS GOING TO RESPOND, AND INSTEAD, HE SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT, JANUARY 6th, WHAT'S HAPPENING AT THE BORDER?

AND IT'S LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

THERE HAS NOT BEEN A VIOLENT CRIME BY IMMIGRANTS, AND CHRISTIANE, YES, YOU AND I WERE BOTH WORKING AT CNN 24 YEARS AGO, 23 YEARS AGO, HERE IN NEW YORK CITY, AND I REPORTED ON UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS GIVING THEIR LIVES, BUT THE TRUST IS, IS THAT THE AMERICAN ECONOMY OVER THE PAST 23 YEARS, WITH UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS, HAS GROWN, AND CRIME HAS DECREASED.

THOSE ARE THE FACTS.

>> YEAH.

>> HOW DO YOU ENGAGE WITH SOMEONE WHO IS UNPREPARED, UNABLE, AND UNWILLING, TO ACCEPT FACTS AND INSTEAD PROMOTES LIES?

>> AND I WANT TO END ON THIS VERY ISSUE WITH FINTAN, BECAUSE ACROSS EUROPE RIGHT NOW, WHETHER IT'S HERE IN THE UK, WHETHER IT'S IN GERMANY, WHICH HAS JUST SUSPENDED ITS, YOU KNOW, FREEDOMS OF MOVEMENT, OVER THE ISSUE OF IMMIGRATION.

THIS IS A MAJOR DEAL THAT MOST POLITICIANS DEAL WITH, BY REALLY SORT OF GOING TO THE RIGHT AND GIVING A LOT OF ATTENTION TO THE FEAR, THE LOATHING, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THAT.

HOW IS THAT GOING TO PLAY OUT IN EUROPE, FINTAN?

>> I THINK YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

IT'S -- IT'S A KEY QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, THE EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN, I MEAN, EVEN IF YOU LEAVE ASIDE, AGAIN, THE ETHICS OF IT, THE EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN THAT TRYING TO TACK TO THE RIGHT, YOU KNOW, TO SEE OFF THE FAR RIGHT BY ADDRESSING THEIR CONCERNS, SO-CALLED, IS A TOTAL POLITICAL FAILURE.

SO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN CENTER RIGHT, EVEN CENTER LEFT PARTIES MOVE THERE, THEY JUST LEGITIMIZE AND NORMALIZE SEINE PHOBIC RHETORIC, THE KIND OF LYING THAT MARIA HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT, THE TROPES THAT TRUMP IS USING, OF COURSE, ARE SATURATING EUROPEAN POLITICS.

IDENTIFYING MIGRANTS WITH CRIMINALITY.

I MEAN, YOU HAVE A FORMER AND POTENTIALLY FUTURE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES USING NAZI RHETORIC ABOUT THE POISONING OF OUR BLOOD.

I MEAN, THIS IS DIRECTLY TAKEN FROM HITLER.

AND THIS IS FEEDING INTO THE GROUNDWATER, OF COURSE, OF EUROPEAN POLITICS, AS WELL.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> I THINK THE LESSON IS THAT IF YOU LOOK AT -- IF TRUMP LOSES, IT WILL BE CRITICAL, I THINK, IN SAYING THAT KIND OF POLITICS IS A DEAD END.

>> REALLY FASCINATING.

SO MANY ACTUAL ISSUES RAISED AT THAT DEBATE.

FINTAN O'TOOLE AND MARIA HINOJOSA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>>> NEXT, TO A BROADWAY EVENT, NOW TAKING LONDON BY STORM.

JEREMY O. HARRIS' "SLAVE PLAY" HAS SHOCKED, CHALLENGED, AND DELIGHTED THEATER GOERS SINCE IT WAS FIRST STAGED IN 2017.

AND FROM A COLLEGE DRAMA PRODUCTION, IT HAS BECOME A PHENOMENON, GOING FROM OFF-BROADWAY TO BROADWAY, GATHERING 12 TONY NOMINATIONS AND RECENTLY, THE SUBJECT OF AN HBO DOCUMENTARY.

HERE'S A CLIP.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS DOCUMENTARY IS ABOUT?

>> "SLAVE PLAY."

>> "SLAVE PLAY" WAS NOMINATED FOR A RECORD-BREAKING 12 TONY AWARDS.

>> I'M MAKING THIS IN PART ABOUT "SLAVE PLAY" BUT ALSO IN WHOLE ABOUT ME.

>> OVER THE NEXT FEW HOURS, THINGS ARE GOING TO BE HARD.

>> I'M AN ACTOR, OKAY?

I'M NOT WHITE.

>> I WANTED TO INVITE US TO TRULY IMAGINE ALL OF THE WAYS SLAVERY STILL LIVES WITH US.

>> PHILLIP!

LIKE A DOG.

>> YES.

>> THE PLAY ITSELF FOLLOWS THREE INTERRACIAL COUPLES AS THEY GO THROUGH UNUSUAL SEX THERAPY, AND IT EXPLORES THE INTRICACY OF RACISM, SEXUALITY, COLORISM, AND MUCH MORE, THROUGH A FIERCELY SATIRICAL LENS.

YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY RECOGNIZE HARRIS AS AN ACTOR FROM "EMILY IN PARIS."

JEREMY O. HARRIS, WELCOME HERE TO THE SET IN LONDON.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> LOVELY TO SEE YOU, AS ALWAYS.

>> I SAW THE PLAY, OBVIOUSLY, AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT HAD I NOT KIND OF READ THE, YOU KNOW, READ THE PROGRAM AND EVERYTHING, I MIGHT NOT HAVE KNOWN WHAT WAS GOING ON FOR THE FIRST BIT.

I MIGHT HAVE THOUGHT IT WAS REAL, I MIGHT HAVE NOT REALIZED THAT -- >> THAT WAS THE POINT.

>> THAT WAS THE POINT?

BECAUSE IT WAS REALLY SHOCKING.

>> I HOPE NOT TOO SHOCKING.

>> IT WAS PRETTY SHOCKING.

>> I THINK, FOR ME, IT FELT LESS SHOCKING, BECAUSE AS I WAS TALKING TO SOMEONE ON THE WAY HERE, LIKE, WE SAW THE COUNTRY I COME FROM, LIKE, LAST NIGHT ON THE DEBATE.

IT'S -- IT'S A RIDICULOUS PLACE.

>> DID YOU WATCH IT?

>> I DID.

>> I STAYED UP UNTIL 2:00 A.M. UNTIL 5:00 OR SOMETHING.

AND IT WAS INSANE, BECAUSE YOU HAVE A MAN TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ILLEGAL TRANSGENDER ALIENS, LIKE, YOU KNOW, COMING -- BEING FORCED TO TRANSITION IN JAILS, AND WE ALSO -- AND WE HAVE SOMEONE ELSE HAVING TO TAKE THAT SERIOUSLY ON THE OTHER SIDE.

AND SO, I FEEL LIKE NOTHING RIDICULOUS THAT I COULD PUT ON THAT STAGE COULD MATCH THE RIDICULOUSNESS OF WHAT I SEE IN MY LIFE, THE THINGS THAT SHOCK ME IN MY DAY-TO-DAY LIFE IN AMERICA.

>> SO, WHEN YOU FIRST WROTE IT, IT WAS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT TIMES, OBVIOUSLY, IN TERMS OF, I GUESS WHO WAS IN POWER, BUT FIRST, I WANT TO ASK YOU ALSO ABOUT THE TITLE, BECAUSE THAT ALSO IS A LOT OF ENTENDRE.

SO, WHAT IS "SLAVE PLAY"?

>> IT WAS LIKE PUTTING, YOU KNOW, LIKE IN THE '90s WHEN ALBUMS WOULD HAVE THE PARENTAL ADVISORY ON IT?

I WANTED TO GIVE PEOPLE AN ADVISORY OF WHAT PLAY THEY WERE STEPPING INTO.

I FEEL LIKE SO OFTEN EVERYTHING ABOUT SLAVERY, RACISM, COLONIALISM, HAD SO MUCH -- HAD TO BE SO PROPER AND WORTHY THAT YOU WOULDN'T ENGAGE WITH THE ACTUAL HORRORS AND SHOCK OF IT ALL.

AND ALSO, OR YOU HAD TO APOLOGIZE FOR WHAT IT WAS GOING TO BE ABOUT THE ENTIRE TIME IN ORDER TO ENTICE PEOPLE THERE.

THIS ISN'T WORTHY.

THIS ISN'T APOLOGETIC.

IT IS WHAT IT IS.

IT'S "SLAVE PLAY" ANDITE YOUR WANT TO SEE THAT OR YOU DON'T.

AND HAVE PEOPLE TO HAVE TO RECON WITH THE MULTITULDS OF WHAT IT COULD BE.

IT WOULD BE ABOUT SLAVES, IT COULD BE ABOUT A KING, ABOUT A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS, WAS WHAT MADE THE TITLE SEEM LIKE THE PERFECT ONE.

>> LET ME JUST FIRST ASK YOU, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY AMERICAN AUDIENCES ARE MUCH MORE AWARE OF THE HISTORY, AND MAYBE REACT IN A CERTAIN WAY.

DID YOU NOTICE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE AMERICAN AUDIENCES AND THE LONDON AUDIENCES?

>> YOU KNOW WHAT'S FUNNY?

I THINK I WAS TOLD THAT I WOULD, THAT THERE WOULD BE THIS WILDLY DIFFERENT THING, BUT -- WILDLY DIFFERENT RESPONSE, AND YET, THE PLAY IS ABOUT BRITISH PEOPLE, AS WELL, ONE OF THE LEAD CHARACTERS IS BRITISH, FROM THE GET-GO.

AND THIS IS A HISTORY THAT I THINK A LOT OF BRITS LIKE TO FEEL SEPARATE FROM, BUT YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN TO LIVERPOOL, I'VE BEEN TO MANCHESTER, I KNOW THAT, LIKE, A LARGE PART OF THIS COUNTRY'S WEALTH AND IT'S SORT OF DOMINANCE CAME FROM ITS RELATIONSHIP TO SLAVE TRADE, EVEN IF THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT IT AS OFTEN, RIGHT?

SO, I THINK THAT, LIKE, PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO HAVE A SAFE PLACE, WHICH THE THEATER IS, TO, LIKE, SORT OF INTERACT WITH THESE IDEAS, HAS MADE THEM HAVE A VERY SIMILAR RESPONSE TO THE AMERICAN AUDIENCES, WHICH IS TO LAUGH, TO CRINGE, TO CRY, TO, LIKE, SCREAM OUT, TO, LIKE, BE DISGUSTED, TO SAY THEY HATE THE PLAY IN THE SAME WAY THAT AMERICANS SAID THEY HATED THE PLAY.

TO SAY THEY LOVE THE PLAY IN THE SIMILAR WAY AMERICANS SAID THEY LOVED IT.

AND IT'S BEEN COOL, TO SEE THE PLAY THAT COULD BE, LIKE, CONSIDERED A VERY, LIKE, AMERICAN WORK, HAS THIS ECHO AND TRANSLATION ACROSS THE POND.

>> SO, I WANT TO ASK YOU, LET'S JUST TAKE A COUPLE, SO WE UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY'RE UP TO.

LET'S TAKE UP JIM AND KENISHA.

ONE OF THEM IS BRITISH, THEY ARE PORTRAYED BY OLIVIA WASHINGTON, AN AMERICAN, AND KIT HARRINGTON, A WELL-KNOWN BRITISH ACTOR.

JIM IS WHITE AND KENISHA IS BLACK.

TALK ABOUT THAT RELATIONSHIP AND WHAT WAS PLAYING OUT THERE.

>> I THINK -- >> BECAUSE IT WAS, I THINK, THE MOST DRAMATIC ONE, OBVIOUSLY.

>> WELL, THEY'RE THE LEADS.

THEY'RE THE CENTER OF THE STORY.

>> YEAH.

>> AND I THINK THE THING THAT I WAS REALLY CURIOUS ABOUT IN THEM IS, LIKE, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A PARTNER, A BLACK PARTNER, ASKS TO BE HEARD.

AND WHAT THEY WANT TO SAY TO YOU, THE WORDS THEY WANT YOU TO USE, THE WORDS THEY'RE USING, MAKE YOU FEEL BAD.

LIKE, MAKE YOU FEEL DISGUSTING, LIKE YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS THING THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE ABOUT YOUR DYNAMIC OR YOURSELF.

AND WHAT HAPPENS IF SOMEONE SAYS NO?

I'M NOT GOING TO HEAR IT, I'M NOT GOING TO SEE IT.

THAT FELT LIKE A METAPHOR FOR WHAT SO MANY PEOPLE SAY WHEN THEY TALK TO SOMEONE WHO IS PART OF THE MAJORITY CLASS, WHETHER THAT'S STRAIGHT, MALE, WHITE.

YOU KNOW, LIKE, AND HAVING -- AND BEING IN AN INTIMATE PARTNERSHIP WITH SOMEONE, IN SO MANY WAYS, DEMANDS THAT WE JUST TAKE TIME TOEN WILL TO THINGS, EVEN WHEN THEY HURT.

EVEN WHEN THEY ARE DISGUSTING.

MESSY.

CRUEL.

AND I THINK THAT A RELATIONSHIP BECAME THE BEST METAPHOR TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION.

>> BUT I WAS ALSO STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT JIM IN THIS CASE WAS BEING VERY KIND OF WORTHY.

HE WAS TRYING TO SAY, NO, I DON'T SEE ANY COLOR DIFFERENCE, NO, WE'RE ALL THE SAME.

AS YOU SAY, SHE WASN'T BEING HEARD, BUT THAT, I THINK, PUTS US ALL ON THE SPOT, THOSE OF US WHO, WELL, PEOPLE WHO TRY TO -- YOU KNOW, RESPECT WHO THEY'RE WITH, BY SAYING, NO, NO, WE'RE ALL THE SAME, WE'RE ALL THE SAME.

BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR.

>> YEAH.

>> ALL THE TIME.

>> IT'S NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR ALL THE TIME.

IT'S ALSO JUST NOT A FACT OF THE WORLD WE LIVE IN, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

WHEN SHE MEETS THE WORLD, HER PARTNER MIGHT NOT SEE HER AS X, Y, OR Z, BUT THE WORLD DOES, AND SHE HAS TO LIVE WITH THAT WEIGHT AND THAT COMPLICATION, AND THEN MEET A PARTNER OFF WHO DOESN'T HAVE TO CARRY THAT WEIGHT, OR THOSE THINGS.

SO, WHEN HER BODY IS REACTING IN DIFFERENT WAYS, WHEN SHE'S DEALING WITH A SORT OF POSTTRAUMATIC STRESS OF BEING IN A POST-COLONIAL WORLD, SHE HAS TO HAVE A PARTNER WHO TRULY UNDERSTANDS WHAT WEIGHT HE HOLDS IN HIS HISTORY.

>> OKAY, AND FINALLY, WELL, NOT FINALLY, BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT TICKET PRICES, YOU KNOW, WELL-KNOWN STARS, AND AUDIENCES.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN A LOT WRITTEN, CERTAINLY, RECENTLY, NOT JUST HERE, BUT ON BROADWAY, ABOUT THE PREPONDERANCE NOW OF THEATERS TO HAVE WELL-KNOWN, SOMETIMES MOVIE STARS, RIGHT?

WHICH COMMAND A LOT OF MONEY AT THE BOX OFFICE AND A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD IT.

>> UH-HUH.

>> HOW DO YOU ANSWER THAT, AND WHAT DO YOU DO IN YOUR THEATER TO MAKE SOME MORE, YOU KNOW, ACCESSIBILITY FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN'T AFFORD?

>> I MEAN, I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS I FEEL SO GRATEFUL FOR IS THAT THE ENTIRETY OF MY CAREER, I'VE BEEN BLESSED TO HAVE PARTNERS AND PRODUCERS WHO REALLY UNDERSTAND THE WORLD I CAME FROM.

BECAUSE I WASN'T ABLE TO SEE A PLAY ON BROADWAY UNTIL I WAS IN GRAD SCHOOL.

AT YALE.

AT 27.

>> BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T AFFORD IT.

>> I COULD NOT AFFORD IT.

I'M FROM A TOWN CALLED MARTINSVILLE, VIRGINIA, IF YOU GOOGLE IT, YOU'LL SEE HOW DEPRESSING IT IS.

BUT I DID NOT HAVE THOSE FUNDS, AND I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE LOVE OF THE THEATER I WAS ABLE TO GARNER THROUGH, YOU KNOW, JUST DOING IT, WAS ABLE TO BE TRANSLATED AND GIVEN TO A WHOLE NEW GENERATION OF PEOPLE WHO MAYBE COULDN'T AFFORD IT LIKE ME.

AND SO SINCE THEN, WE'VE HAD TO HAVE -- WE'VE HAD RADICAL INVITATIONS TO EVERYONE THAT WE'VE WANTED TO COME SEE THE PLAY, BY DOING WILD TICKET SCHEMES, LIKE, THE ONE WE'RE DOING HERE, WHERE EVERY WEDNESDAY AT, I FORGET WHAT TIME IT IS, YOU CAN GO ONLINE AND DO A PAY WHAT YOU CAN AND GET A TICKET FOR A POUND, IF YOU NEED TO.

AND THEY'RE NOT TICKETS THAT ARE IN THE NOSE BLEEDS.

THEY'RE TICKETS RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE.

LIKE, THREE SECONDS AWAY FROM JON SNOW HIMSELF, YOU KNOW?

THAT, FOR ME, HAS ALWAYS BEEN A CORNERSTONE OF MY PROCESS.

TO THE -- TO THE CHAGRIN OF MANY INVESTORS AROUND THE WEST END AND BROADWAY, WHO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE WILL STILL PAY $300 FOR THEIR SHOWS, FOR $400 FOR THEIR SHOWS.

I WOULD RATHER SEE A PLAY RUN FOR A LONG TIME IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT CITIES AND COUNTRIES FOR AN AVERAGE TICKET PRICE OF $50 TO $75, THAN HAVE ONE PLAY RUN FOR SIX MONTHS AT, LIKE, A $400 TICKET PRICE.

BECAUSE FOR ME, THAT IS UNSUSTAINABLE, TO CREATE A NEW GENERATION OF THEATER GOERS.

>> OKAY, TALKING ABOUT THIS, THEN, THE -- JUST VERY QUICKLY IN OUR LAST 30 SECONDS, THERE'S A HUGE SLEW OF BROADWAY PLAYS COMING ON WHICH ARE MOSTLY REVIVALS.

>> YES.

>> OF VERY WELL-KNOWN PLAYS WITH VERY WELL-KNOWN ACTORS.

YOURS IS ORIGINAL.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT -- >> I THINK -- AGAIN, WE'RE IN A COMPLICATED SITUATION FINANCIALLY ON BROADWAY.

AND PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO KEEP THE LIGHTS ON.

>> YEAH.

>> AND FAMOUS ACTORS KEEP THE LIGHTS ON AND FAMOUS ACTORS WANT TO DO ALL THE PLAYS THAT THEY COULDN'T DO IN UNDERGRAD OR GRAD SCHOOL OR IN ACTING CLASS, YOU KNOW?

IF YOU ALWAYS WANTED TO PLAY, YOU KNOW, MASHA IN "THREE SISTERS," YOU BEST BELIEVE YOU'RE GOING TO DEMAND WHEN A FAMOUS DIRECTOR TAKES YOU TO BROADWAY, YOU'RE GOING TO BE MASHA.

>> JEREMY O. HARRIS, THANK YOU.

>>> RETURNING TO OUR TOP STORY.

NOW, THE COUNTRY'S MOST PROMINENT LATINO CIVIL RIGHTS ORGANIZATION HAS MADE AN UNPRECEDENTED MOVE, CHOOSING TO ENDORSE THE HARRIS/WALZ TICKET FOR THE WHITE HOUSE.

THEIR FIRST OFFICIAL ENDORSEMENT IN NEARLY 100 YEARS.

FROM MASS DEPORTATIONS TO MISINFORMATION AND BIGOTRY, IMMIGRATION IS AT THE HEART OF THIS ELECTION.

AND THE LEAGUE OF UNITED LATIN AMERICAN CITIZENS WARNS AGAINST A SECOND TRUMP TERM.

NOW, JUAN PROANO IS THE HEAD OF THAT ORGANIZATION, AND HE'S JOINING MICHEL MARTIN TO EXPLAIN WHAT MOTIVATED THIS DECISION.

>> JUAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> OF COURSE, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO, FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH LULAC, AS BRIEFLY AS YOU CAN, WILL YOU JUST TELL US THE STORY OF THE ORGANIZATION?

HOW DID IT BECOME ONE OF THESE PREEMINENT FIVE RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS?

>> SO, LULAC WAS ACTUALLY FOUNDED IN 1929, IN CORPUS CHRISTI, TEXAS, AND IT IS THE COUNTRY'S OLDEST AND LARGEST LATINO CIVIL RIGHTS ORGANIZATION.

THEY REALLY CAME OUT OF, YOU KNOW, PROMOTION OF ADVOCACY FOR LATINO INTERESTS.

THERE WAS A LOT OF RACISM AND DISENFRANCHISEMENT HAPPENING IN THE SOUTH, AND IN THE SOUTHWEST, AND SO, COROLLARY REALLY TO THE NAACP FOR LATINOS.

IT'S THE ONLY LATINO MEMBERSHIP ORGANIZATION IN THE COUNTRY.

WE HAVE OVER 535 COUNCILS.

WE HAVE OVER 260,000 MEMBERS IN 33 STATES AND, YOU KNOW, 207 CITIES.

>> IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT LULAC HAS NEVER ENDORSED IN A PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN BEFORE.

AND THAT YOU'VE ORGANIZED A PAC, WHICH DOES HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE POLITICALLY.

WHY WAS THIS THE MOMENT WHEN THE ORGANIZATION FELT THAT THIS WAS A STEP YOU HAD TO TAKE?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, LULAC HAS ALWAYS BEEN A NONPARTISAN OR BIPARTISAN ORGANIZATION, YOU KNOW, WE REPRESENT LATINOS OF ALL STRIPES AND POLITICAL BACKGROUNDS, AND WE CERTAINLY HAVE A LOT OF REPUBLICAN MEMBERS, AS WELL, INCLUDING IN OUR LEADERSHIP RANKS.

WE'VE HAD SEVERAL LULAC NATIONAL PRESIDENTS THAT ARE REPUBLICANS, TOO.

BUT YOU KNOW, THIS ELECTION WAS REALLY DIFFERENT.

YOU KNOW, WE WANTED TO CREATE A VEHICLE IN WHICH WE CAN CONTINUE TO EMPOWER THE LATINO COMMUNITY.

YOU KNOW, TYPICALLY, WE'RE DOING THAT FROM A CIVIL RIGHTS PERSPECTIVE, WHERE WE'RE FILING LAWSUITS, BUT IN THOSE CASES, IT CAN TAKE YEARS AND YEARS TO GET ANY SORT OF OUTCOME FROM FILING LAWSUITS.

SO, STARTING A PAC WAS A NATURAL PROGRESSION FOR THIS ORGANIZATION.

AND IN REGARDS TO THE ENDORSEMENT, IT WAS SOMETHING THAT OUR MEMBERS WERE ASKING FOR, AND AS WE WATCHED THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION ON THAT TUESDAY WHEN THEY PASSED OUT MASS DEPORTATION SIGNS, IT REALLY WAS AND INDICATOR FOR US THAT IT WAS TIME FOR LULAC TO STEP UP.

WE COULD NO LONGER SIT ON THE SIDELINE, BECAUSE IT REALLY IS AN ATTACK ON THE LATINO COMMUNITY.

>> IT'S NOT A SECRET THAT, YOU KNOW, FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, FROM HIS EARLIEST MOMENTS AS A NATIONAL CANDIDATE, HONED IN ON IMMIGRATION AS AN ISSUE FOR HIM.

SO, I WAS JUST CURIOUS, WHAT IS IT ABOUT THIS CAMPAIGN THAT MADE IT A PRIORITY NOW, WHEN IT WASN'T A PRIORITY IN 2016?

>> YOU KNOW, WE STOOD BY AND WE HEARD THE RHETORIC, IF YOU WILL, AROUND IMMIGRANTS, AROUND LATINOS, AND IT WAS DISGUSTING, EVEN IN 2016.

BUT YOU KNOW, REALLY WHAT WE WERE LOOKING AT IS, YOU KNOW, A 1.0 VERSION OF DONALD TRUMP IN 2016.

A 2.0 VERSION OF DONALD TRUMP, WHICH ESSENTIALLY STARTED AN INSURRECTION IN WASHINGTON, D.C., AND THIS IS A 3.0 VERSION.

IF WE'RE GOING TO BELIEVE, WE'RE GOING TO CUT TAXES, WE SHOULD ALSO BELIEVE HIM WHEN HE SAYS HE'S GOING TO DEPORT UP TO 15 MILLION IMMIGRANTS.

I TAKE HIM AT HIS WORD.

BUT YOU KNOW, WHEN WE LOOK AT IT, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LATINO IMMIGRANTS THAT HAVE BEEN HERE 10, 20, 30 YEARS, WHO MAY HAVE MARRIED U.S. CITIZENS, WHO HAVE CHILDREN WHO ARE U.S. CITIZENS, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT?

IT WOULD TEAR THIS COUNTRY APART AND HAVE A DEVASTATING IMPACT ON THE LATINO COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE.

>> ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS THAT HAS HAPPENED, YOUR GROUPS KIND OF MOVE INTO THE POLITICAL SPACE IN THIS WAY HAS ARISEN IN A MOMENT WHEN WE ARE SEEING AT LEAST ACCORDING TO THE POLLS, MORE LATINOS ATTRACTED TO DONALD TRUMP.

NOT IN HUGE NUMBERS, BUT THERE'S A DEFINITE SHIFT.

THERE'S CERTAINLY A DEFINITE FOCUS ON THE LATINO VOTE.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, LATINOS ARE SOCIAL CONSERVATIVES BY NATURE, YOU KNOW?

CERTAINLY IN THE HOUSEHOLD THAT I BROUGHT UP, WE WERE FISCAL CONSERVATIVES, WHEN IT CAME TO REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, AS WELL.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S BY NATURE, IF YOU WILL, A BIG PART OF BEING LATINO.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING TODAY, THERE'S A VERY SIGNIFICANT, YOU KNOW, CHASM THAT'S BEING CREATED BETWEEN OLDER AND YOUNGER LATINOS.

WHAT I WOULD POINT OUT IN REGARDS TO YOUR COMMENT ABOUT MORE LATINOS SUPPORTING DONALD TRUMP, IT'S MORE HISPANIC MALES, NOT NECESSARILY LATINAS.

SO, YOU'RE HEARING A BIG PART OF THE NARRATIVE AROUND THAT, BUT IT ACTUALLY REALLY DOES SKEW TOWARDS ONE SEGMENT OF THE LATINO COMMUNITY.

>> LET ME GIVE YOU THE DATA.

THIS IS FROM THE PEW RESEARCH CENTER.

LATINO VOTERS MAKE UP 14% OF THE ELECTOR RATE.

IN THE 2020 ELECTION, 38% BACKED DONALD TRUMP, COMPARED TO 28% IN 2016.

THAT'S -- THAT'S A REAL DIFFERENCE.

SO, WHAT HAPPENED THERE?

IN YOUR VIEW.

>> IT IS.

YOU KNOW, THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS, OBVIOUSLY, THAT REALLY DO ATTRACT SOME VOTERS, AND CERTAINLY SOME LATINOS, TO DONALD TRUMP, AND A LOT OF IT REALLY WAS POLICY-ORIENTED.

YOU KNOW, LOOK, WE'RE NOT MONOLITHIC, FROM THE CONTEXT OF, FROM A POLICY PERSPECTIVE.

THERE ARE SOME LATINOS THAT, YOU KNOW, WANT CLOSED BORDERS, RIGHT?

YOU KNOW, WE -- WE ARE A HUGE TENT.

LA TEE KNOWS REALLY COME FROM DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS, RACES, ETHNICITIES, WE CUT ACROSS SOCIOECONOMIC STRATA.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, HE DID A GOOD JOB APPEALING OF A CERTAIN SEGMENT OF THAT GROUP.

BUT WHAT I WOULD ALSO SAY IS THAT REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN INVESTED IN THE LATINO COMMUNITY FOR YEARS, FOR YEARS, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS ACTUALLY NOT DONE.

SO, WE'VE SEEN ORGANIZATIONS, WITH THE KOCH BROTHERS THAT HAVE INVESTED TENS OF MILLIONS, HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, LITERALLY OVER A DECADE AT THIS POINT.

AND THE DEMOCRATS HAVE NOT DONE IS SAME.

>> AND WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE?

WHEN YOU SAY INVESTING, WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

>> YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT EDUCATION PROGRAMS, FOR EXAMPLE, OUT IN THEIR COMMUNITY.

YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT TYPE OF ADVOCACY CAMPAIGNS THEY'VE EFFECTIVELY RUN ON A REGIONAL BASIS, ON A NATIONAL BASIS, AS WELL.

YOU KNOW, IT -- POLITICS IS OBVIOUSLY AT THE END OF THE DAY VERY LOCAL, AND YOU DO HAVE TO INVEST AT A LOCAL LEVEL, BUT I BELIEVE THAT A LOT OF FOLKS REALLY TRY TO TREATMENT LATINOS AS GENERAL MARKET CONSUMERS, THAT WE ACT AND RESPOND LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

WHEN IN SOME CASES, REALLY, THERE'S A LOT MORE FINE TUNING TO THE MESSAGING THAT THESE CAMPAIGNS AND CANDIDATES HAVE TO BE ABLE TO DELIVER IN ORDER TO BE EFFECTIVE.

>> YOU'RE SAYING THAT DESPITE THIS MASSIVE, WHAT YOU'RE CALLING INVESTMENT IN, I GUESS VOTER OUTREACH AND, YOU KNOW, HIGH CONTACT KIND OF MESSAGING, I WOULD SAY THE MOST KIND OF PROMINENT LATINO PUBLIC OFFICIALS ARE STILL DEMOCRATS.

EVEN IF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, ON THE WHOLE, HAS NOT INVESTED IN THE WAY THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED THAT THE REPUBLICANS HAVE.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

>> WELL, BECAUSE -- >> HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?

>> BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT BEING DOWN TO DISENFRANCHISE LATINO VOTERS, FROM VOTER SUPPRESSION, VOTER INTIMIDATION, GERRY MANNERING IN CERTAIN STATES, CERTAIN PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.

WHERE THERE SHOULD BE MORE LATINO REPRESENTATION, AND THERE ISN'T.

SO, YOU END UP KIND OF SORT OF SHIFTING IT TO MORE DEMOCRATIC STRONGHOLDS, FOR EXAMPLE.

LIKE IN SOUTH TEXAS AND HARRIS COUNTY, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE WE DO HAVE REALLY STRONG LATINO REPRESENTATION, AS WELL.

>> WHAT -- WHAT DIFFERENCE DO YOU THINK THAT THIS ENDORSEMENT WILL MAKE?

WHAT WILL IT MEAN FOR YOUR ORGANIZATION AND FOR THE DEMOCRATIC TICKET?

>> WELL, THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THE ENDORSEMENT RUNG WIDE.

EVERYONE REALLY KNOWS ABOUT THE ENDORSEMENT, IT WENT INTERNATIONAL.

THE CAMPAIGN CERTAINLY TOOK NOTE OF THE INFLUENCE AND REACH OF LULAC AS AN ORGANIZATION, AND OUR HOPE IS THAT IT WILL SEND A CLEAR MESSAGE TO LATINOS THAT ARE BASICALLY ON THE EDGE, THAT HAVEN'T NECESSARILY MADE A DECISION THAT THE CANDIDATE THAT REALLY HAS THEIR BEST INTEREST IN MIND IS KAMALA HARRIS, AS OPPOSED TO DONALD TRUMP, WHO WANTS TO DEPORT 15 MILLION LATINOS.

>> LET ME JUST WHEEL AROUND TO ONE OTHER ISSUE.

RECENTLY, THE TEXAS ATTORNEY GENERAL KEN PAXTON'S OFFICE RAIDED THE HOMES OF SEVERAL LATINO VOTING ACTIVISTS, INCLUDING MEMBERS OF LULAC, PART OF HIS INVESTIGATION INTO ALLEGED ELECTION FRAUD AND VOTE HARVESTING DURING THE 2022 ELECTIONS.

I WAS INTERESTED HOW LULAC BECAME AWARE OF THESE RAIDS, AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND WHEN YOU HEARD ABOUT THEM?

>> WELL, WE'VE BEEN TRACKING IT FOR SOME TIME.

AND SO, WE HAD SEEN THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAD ACTUALLY SUED THE ANNUNCIATION HOUSE, WHICH PROVIDES -- IT'S A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION THAT PROVIDES RESPITE SERVICES.

HE ALSO SUED THE ARCHDIOCESE, THEY HAVE DONE INCREDIBLE WORK IN THAT AREA.

SO, OUR EXPECTATION WAS THAT THEY WERE GOING TO SUE LULAC NEXT.

SO, WE WERE CERTAINLY SURPRISED WHEN THEY STARTED TO GO AFTER LATINO ACTIVISTS, LATINO LEADERS, EVEN SOME CANDIDATES THAT WERE ACTUALLY RUNNING FOR PUBLIC OFFICE.

IT TOOK US A COUPLE OF DAYS TO ACTUALLY FIND OUT ABOUT IT, BECAUSE IN MOST CASES, THEY HAD ACTUALLY TAKEN THEIR PHONES AND COMPUTERS, THEY LITERALLY WERE TOLD NOT TO TELL ANYONE ABOUT IT, AND SO, IT TOOK ABOUT 48 HOURS FOR US TO ACTUALLY HEAR BACK FROM OUR MEMBERS AND BACK FROM THE COMMUNITY.

>> WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS?

I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU FILED A CIVIL RIGHTS COMPLAINT WITH THE FEDERAL DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.

WHAT -- WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

WHAT DOES THAT ENTAIL?

AND WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

>> WELL, WE ACTUALLY DID MEET WITH THE DOJ LAST WEEK, AS A MATTER OF FACT.

THEY WERE VERY RESPONSIVE TO THE REQUEST.

WE SENT THEM A LETTER TO THE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL WHO IS IN CHARGE OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS OFFICE.

SO, I DO BELIEVE THAT THEY TOOK THE INQUIRY SERIOUSLY, THEY HAD FOLKS BOTH FROM THE CRIMINAL DIVISION AND ALSO FROM THE VOTING RIGHTS DIVISION, AS WELL, PRESENT.

WE LAID OUT THE CASE AND WHAT WE BELIEVE IS GOING ON IN REGARDS TO VOTER INTIMIDATION, VOTER SUPPRESSION.

ON OBVIOUSLY, PROBABLY, WE WON'T BE NOTIFIED IF THEY ACTUALLY DO HAVE AN OPEN INVESTIGATION, AND GIVEN WHERE WE ARE IN THE ELECTION YEAR, AND LESS THAN 60 DAYS, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE GOING TO COMMENT PUBLICLY.

BUT WE'LL CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE.

WE HAVE PARTNERED WITH LEADING CIVIL RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS, AFRICAN AMERICAN CIVIL RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS, AND SO, FOR US, IT'S A COMMUNITY RESPONSE, THIS DOES NOT JUST SPECIFIC TO LATINOS IN TEXAS, IT EFFECTS OTHER STATES ALIKE.

>> SO, WE REACHED OUT TO ATTORNEY GENERAL PAXTON'S OFFICE FOR COMMENT ABOUT THE LAWSUIT, BUT WE HAVEN'T HEARD BACK YET, BUT THERE WAS A PRESS RELEASE LAUNCHING THE INVESTIGATION AND I'LL JUST READ A QUOTE.

IT SAYS, IN 2022, THE UNIT RECEIVED A REFERRAL FROM AUDREY LEWIS REGARDING ALLEGATIONS OF ELECTION FRAUD AND VOTE HARVESTING THAT OCCURRED IN THE 2022 ELECTIONS.

THE TWO-YEAR INVESTIGATION PROVIDED SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE TO ON STAIN THE SEARCH WARRANTS IN FURTHERANCE OF THE INVESTIGATION.

I THINK THEIR ARGUMENT IS THAT THEY HAVE EVIDENCE THAT THESE ACTIVITIES OCCURRED.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?

>> I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE EVIDENCE.

I THINK FROM WHAT WE UNDERSTAND IS THAT THEY HAVE A PHONE CONVERSATION, BUT THEY DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY MATERIAL DATA THAT THEY CAN ACTUALLY SHOW THAT THERE WAS ACTUALLY VOTER PROUD AS A MATTER OF FACT, THEY REALLY UNDERCUT THEIR OWN ARGUMENT WHEN THEY ANNOUNCED THEY WERE PURGING 1.1 MILLION VOTERS FROM THEIR VOTER ROLLS AND SPECIFICALLY STATED THAT ONLY 6,500 OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT WERE PURGED FROM THE VOTER ROLL WERE NONCITIZENS.

1,900 WITH VOTE HISTORY.

AND SO, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY EVEN ACCOUNT FOR NATURALIZED CITIZENS.

SO, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HALF OF A PERCEN OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT MAY HAVE BEEN NOT CITIZENS, FOR EXAMPLE.

>> SO, WHY DO YOU THINK THEY DID IT?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THEY WANT TO SHOW THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE TOUGH, WHEN IT COMES TO ELECTION INTEGRITY, THEY DO WANT TO INTIMIDATE THE LATINO COMMUNITY FROM COMING OUT TO VOTE.

BUT I BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY SETTING THE FOUNDATION FOR MAKING THE CASE OF CONTESTING THE 2024 ELECTION.

BEFORE, THEY HAD TO CONTEST IT POST-ELECTION, AND NOW, THEY'RE BASICALLY TRYING TO LAID THE GROUNDWORK WHERE THEY CAN CONTEST IT IN 2024 IN NOVEMBER.

>> WHAT OTHER STEPS DO YOU THINK LULAC WILL TAKE, KIND OF GOING FORWARD?

THIS IS A VERY UNUSUAL ELECTION YEAR, I MEAN, AT LEAST AS FAR AS THE TOP OF THE TICKET IS CONCERNED.

WHAT DO YOU AND YOUR MEMBERS DO IN THIS TIME FRAME?

>> WELL, OUR MEMBERSHIP HAS GONE THROUGH KIND OF SORT OF LIKE THIS RANGE OF FEELINGS, RIGHT, FROM SHOCK TO ANGER, SOME FEAR.

AND NOW RESOLUTION.

THEY ARE MORE RESOLVED, ACTUALLY BEEN MORE ENGAGED TO GET OUT THERE AND DO THE VOTER REGISTRATION, AND TO MAKE SURE THAT LULAC MEMBERS CERTAINLY ARE GOING TO VOTE AND THE LATINO COMMUNITY IS GOING TO VOTE.

LULAC IS REALLY INTERESTING.

SO, WE HAVE 265,000 MEMBERS AT THIS POINT.

79% OF THEM ARE REGISTERED TO VOTE.

72% OF THEM VOTED IN 2020, AND 66% OF THEM VOTED IN 2022.

SO, WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT IF THEY'RE LULAC MEMBERS, THEY'RE POLITICALLY ENGAGED, THEY'RE REGISTERED TO VOTE, AND THEY DO VOTE IN ELECTIONS.

SO, WE'RE GOING TO DO OUR BEST TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE INFORMED AND THEY HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION THEY NEED TO MAKE THE BEST DECISION FOR THEM ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, AND ALSO FOR THE COMMUNITY, AS WELL.

>> BUT YOU'VE ALSO POINTED OUT THAT THE LATINO COMMUNITY WRIT LARGE IS NOT MONOLITHIC, AND I THINK I HEARD YOU SAY THAT THERE ARE PROBABLY SOME PEOPLE WHO DO BELIEVE IN MASS DEPORTATION.

I MEAN, THERE IS SOME HISTORY FOR THAT.

THERE WAS A MASS DEPORTATION OF MEXICAN AMERICANS DURING THE EISENHOWER ADMINISTRATION, RIGHT?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

>> I THINK MAYBE SOME PEOPLE MIGHT BE SHOCKED TO HEAR THIS, BUT IT IS A FACT THAT HISTORICALLY, WHEN A PRIOR MASS DEPORTATION DID TAKE PLACE, THERE WERE PEOPLE IN THE MEXICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY THAT DID SUPPORT IT.

GIVEN THAT THIS DIFFERENCE OF OPINION HAS EXISTED BEFORE, GIVEN THAT WE DO SEE A NOTICEABLE PERCENTAGE OF LATINOS MOVING TOWARD THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT -- THAT THAT DIFFERENCE OF OPINION IS GOING TO BE RESOLVED BY NOVEMBER?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'VE NOW HAD OVER 40 YEARS OF THIS CONVERSATION GOING BACK AROUND COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM.

LULAC CERTAINLY IS FOR COMMON SENSE IMMIGRATION REFORM, BUT WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO ACCEPT RATE OUT THE ISSUES OF IMMIGRATION AT THE BORDER, AND THE INFLUX OF IMMIGRANTS THAT ARE COMING IN, BUT ALSO THE ISSUES IN THE INTERIOR.

YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I TALKED ABOUT THOSE LATINOS WHO HAVE BEEN HERE FOR YEARS, RIGHT?

DECADES, IN SOME CASES.

AND WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR IS A PATHWAY TO CITIZENSHIP, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE TEMPORARY PROTECTIVE STATUS SO THEY WOULD ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO WORK LEGALLY IN THIS COUNTRY.

IT'S NOT AN EASY PROBLEM TO SOLVE, BUT WE DID SEE BIPARTISAN LEGISLATION ENACTED, IT WAS PASSED IN CONGRESS, IT WAS STOPPED BY DONALD TRUMP.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE FEEL LIKE THAT POTENTIALLY COULD GET PASSED.

WE CERTAINLY SUPPORT IT, KAMALA HARRIS HAS SUPPORTED IT, SHE ACTUALLY SAID SHE WOULD SIGN THAT BILL IF IT COMES TO HER DESK, IF SHE SHOULD BE ELECTED PRESIDENT, SO, WE DO AT LEAST FEEL LIKE THERE IS SOME PATHWAY TO MOVE FORWARD.

>> YOU'VE BEEN APART OF THE ORGANIZATION FOR A LONG TIME, AND YOU JOINED IT AT A TIME WHEN IT WAS NONPARTISAN.

THIS IS NEW FOR THE ORGANIZATION.

I'M JUST WONDERING, HOW IS THIS FOR YOU?

SEEMS A LITTLE UNCOMFORTABLE?

>> IT IS.

IT -- YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES IT FEELS LIKE I'M WALKING ON LAND MINES, FOR EXAMPLE, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT TO FACTOR IN WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE LATINO COMMUNITY.

LATINO IDENTITY, FOR EXAMPLE, IS REALLY ONE OF THOSE BIG ISSUES.

THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT LULAC HAS ITS ROOTS PRIMARILY IN MEXICAN AMERICAN CULTURE AND THE CHICANO MOVEMENT.

THE ORGANIZATION IS CHANGING, AND SO, I'M LOOKING TO SEE WHAT LULAC WILL LOOK LIKE AS WE MOVE CLOSER TO OUR 100th YEAR, BUT I'M ALSO LOOKING AT WHAT IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE FOR THE NEXT 100 YEARS, AND THERE'S NO QUESTION, RIGHT, THAT LATINO COMMUITY IS GETTING YOUNGER AND YOUNGER IN THE UNITED STATES.

LULAC'S OWN MEMBERSHIP IS ALSO BEGINNING TO SKEW YOUNGER, AND SO, I BELIEVE THAT WE ARE NOW AT KIND OF THIS PRECIPICE WHERE, YOU KNOW, IT WILL CHANGE.

IT WILL LOOK DIFFERENT, BUT STILL HONORING THE HISTORY AND THE INCREDIBLE LEGACY THAT THE ORGANIZATION HAS, AND CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, SUPPORTING OUR MEXICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY, BUT ALSO COLOMBIANS, ALL LATINOS.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE STAND FOR IS ALL LATINOS.

>> JUAN, THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

IT'S A PLEASURE.

>>> IN NEW YORK, PEOPLE ARE MARKING 23 YEARS SINCE THE 9/11 ATTACKS, AS WE MENTIONED EARLIER.

NEARLY 3,000 PEOPLE WERE KILLED THAT DAY, AND THE GLOBAL WAR ON TERROR THAT FOLLOWED ALSO RESHAPED THE WORLD AND IT ESPECIALLY RESHAPED AFGHANISTAN.

ONE OF ITS HOPEFUL NEW BUSINESS LEADERS, THE FOUNDER OF MOBI GROUP, WHICH IN THE AFTERMATH OF 9/11, PIONEERED A NEW MEDIA LANDSCAPE FOR THAT COUNTRY.

WITH WOMEN ON TV AND MUSIC ON THE RADIO.

WHEN HE JOINED ME HERE IN THE STUDIO, I ASKED HIM FOR HIS REFLECTIONS.

WE'RE SPEAKING, YOU KNOW, 23 YEARS AFTER 9/11, WHICH COMPLETELY CHANGED THE FACE OF AFGHANISTAN, OBVIOUSLY.

IN YOUR BOOK, YOU SAY, TWO YEARS AFTER I CLOSED MY COMMODITIES BUSINESS FOR GOOD AND RELUCTANTLY MOVED BACK TO AUSTRALIA, I WATCHED THE TWIN TOWERS FALL ON CNN.

PRACTICALLY OVERNIGHT, AFGHANISTAN WENT FROM BEING A FORGOTTEN PLACE TO THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE.

23 YEARS LATER, HOW GOOD WAS IT FOR AFGHANISTAN TO GO TO THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE?

HOW HAS IT HELPED?

>> WELL, IT HELPED CHANGE MILLIONS OF AFGHANS AFGHANISTAN.

>> SO MANY HAVE FLED SINCE '21.

>> YEAH.

>> MOST OF YOUR ON-AIR PERSONNEL FLED.

>> YES.

BUT 40 MILLION PEOPLE REMAIN.

>> YEAH.

>> RIGHT?

THE CITIES HAVE BEEN REBUILT.

SO, AFGHANISTAN, AND AFGHANS DID BENEFIT FROM THIS SORT OF TRILLION DOLLARS IN AID AND ASSISTANCE THAT WENT INTO THE COUNTRY.

NOT ALL OF US INTO AFGHANISTAN.

WAYS.

AND AFGHANISTAN TODAY IS A FORGOTTEN PLACE, SADLY.

BUT YOU FORGET AFGHANISTAN AT YOUR OWN PERIL.

THAT'S MY THINKING.

SO, I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WHETHER IT'S REFUGEES, COUNTERTERRORISM, OR DRUGS, TO NOT DISENGAGE WITH THE COUNTRY AND ITS PEOPLE.

>> SO, WHEN YOU CAME BACK, AFTER 9/11, WHAT WERE YOUR FEELINGS, WHAT WERE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT WHAT WAS POSSIBLE, KNOWING THE NATURE OF THAT COUNTRY, KNOWING THAT IT WAS DEEPLY DIVIDED, THAT IT WAS SPLIT, THAT THERE IS A MASSIVE CONSERVATIVE RURAL TRADITIONAL POPULATION, MAYBE KABUL WAS MODERN, RELATIVELY, BUT NOT MUCH OF THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.

>> I THINK WE WERE FAIRLY PERSISTENT, AND PROBABLY TOO OPTIMISTIC.

SO, WE ESTABLISHED ALL THESE BUSINESSES, HOPING FOR THE BEST.

I MEAN, THERE WAS CERTAIN NAIVETY ON OUR PART TO ASSUME THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE TO THIS CHANGE WE WERE ALL LOOKING FORWARD TO.

IN SOME WAYS, IT HAS HAPPENED.

THE COUNTRY'S A TRANSFORMED COUNTRY.

IT JUST NEEDS THE OPPORTUNITY, NEEDS MORE TIME.

>> HE'S WRITTEN A MEMOIR CALLED "RADIO FREE AFGHANISTAN" AND OUR FULL INTERVIEW WILL AIR LATER THIS WEEK.

>>> AND FINALLY, A GREAT ESCAPE ON A SMALL SCALE.

THIS RUNAWAY PENGUIN FROM A JAPANESE ZOO HAS BEEN FOUND AFTER ESCAPING TWO WEEKS AGO.

PEN CHAN HAD NEVER BEEN IN THE OPEN OCEAN BEFORE, BUT DID MANAGE TO SURVIVE THAT WHOLE TIME ON HER OWN.

HER KEEPER IS CALLING HER RETURN A MIRACLE AFTER FINDING HER SOME 30 MILES AWAY.

>>> THANK YOU FOR WATCHING, AND GOOD-BYE FROM LONDON.

>>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

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