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Hi, how you doing?

Alvin Reid sitting in for Charlie Brennan tonight on Donnybrook And just uh we all need to take a moment and remember that it is September the 11th.

And I think we all can stop and remember where we were and all the things that happened that day and the days beyond that.

And one of the things I do remember was how we came together as a country and we were indeed one.

And on this day, maybe we could all just stop and think I would like to at least feel as though we could all be one again.

And with that, we'll head right on into Donnybrook.

So joining me tonight is Joe Holleman from the St. Louis Post Dispatch.

Bill McClellan, founder of This Here Show and also still a columnist at the St. Louis Post Dispatch.

Sarah Fenske from St. Louis magazine.

You really need to read that newsletter.

She stays on top of the news.

And in my seat, Andy Banker from Fox 2 News.

How you doing, Andy?

Good to see you, Alvin.

Your chair warm.

Oh, man.

There you go.

There you go.

Right.

You look sharp, too.

You're you're fulfilling the destiny.

Well, uh, tomorrow in Jefferson City, the Senate is poised to pass the redistricting bill.

And then from there, get ready for a slew of lawsuits and also possibly a petition drive that could get this put on the ballot.

And if it were put on the ballot, I think that the people of Missouri would say they really don't like this redistricting plan.

Andy, you think it would pass or you think it would fail?

I'm with you on this and I say this after seeing the crowds of opponents storm the capital.

Not storm the capital.

I guess we should just say flood the Missouri capital.

I don't remember another issue that has really packed them in.

I I'm the abortion issue I'm sure has in the past, but that was really a sight to see with thousands of people in the Missouri capital all against this.

And you didn't see a thousand people or more who support drawing Missouri into a seven Republican congressman state to one Democrat as opposed to six to two.

There's not this large outcry among the Missouri Republicans.

I don't think statewide.

They didn't go there to support this.

The opponents did.

And I think that's a sign that this would I I think that the ballot if this came on the ballot and somebody said the Democrats want this plan, the Republicans and Trump want this plan that Missouri would overwhelmingly go for Trump and the Republicans and we'd have six to1.

I I hope you're right, but I don't think you are.

But even in a off-year election, if it's on the 26 ballot when you know there's not going to be that many Trump motivated people like there were in 24.

Oh, I think there'll be enough.

I mean, you know, he's got such a strong majority in this state and this is an issue where, yeah, to get people really wound up about it.

That's, you know, you're going to see Democrats are more upset about it.

You're going to get a couple thousand people down at the capital.

That's not going to be enough to stop this thing when it goes in front of the the Missouri electorate.

Well, we do.

There have been some Republican legislators uh in the House especially who have said like my, you know, the people that elect me aren't really for this, but I'm going to do it anyway.

The speaker of the house voted against it.

Right.

Right.

That was because he said he didn't think it would.

He he said he didn't think it would pass.

He said this is going to come to a vote, and I don't think it'll pass.

I I think it I I agree with Bill and Sarah.

I I think uh that they would do the 7 to1 redistricting, but I don't think it has anything to do with the issue of redistricting.

It has to do with red versus blue.

And that's what I find.

So many of these issues are never about the actual worth of the issue at hand.

It's what side has embraced what side.

And I think when it comes down to this state, we're a solid 60% even more possibly Republican state.

That's why I think it would fail because I don't think any more people actually look at well what is this issue?

I think they look at is it Democrat then I'm voting against it or is it Republican then the Democrats vote against it.

We had Democrats voting against the National Defense Bill which basically pays your troops.

I get it.

But those are the things that normally before the last 10 or so years used to sail through Congress that everybody thought, well, you know, we got to pay our servicemen and women to do their job.

But now it's not about that anymore.

Every vote is a partisan vote.

Well, go ahead.

That's lawmakers.

That's elected people casting those votes.

If it comes down to a vote of the people deciding the issue, I just don't see Russ Carnahan, the chairman of the Missouri Democratic Party, just said they have other issues on their minds.

Voters, the economy, crime, whatever, taxes, you name it.

One of them is not, boy, I hope we can make it a seven to one red state as opposed to six to I think we're looking at a state where all of your statewide officials are Republican.

six out of eight congressmen, both your senators.

I just don't think it would stand.

When I say don't stand a chance, I'm not saying it would be 70% in favor of the redistricting, but I don't think it would win.

I think they would go with the seven to1.

I can just see the commercials.

It would be like liberal Democrats want to stop this plan that President Trump has supported.

Like, I mean, that's going to They want to control the House so they can impeach Trump.

Exactly.

But the liberal Democrats might run some ads, too, saying Republicans want to put Kansas City in the same district as Burman, Missouri.

There you go.

Exactly.

Also, you know, the Republican party definitely stood against minimum wage uh raise and health care if your business is only so low.

And those passed overwhelmingly.

So, obviously, some Republicans once in that booth voted in favor of those issues.

It could happen again, I think.

All right.

You guys are right.

Let's vote on it.

Let's vote on it.

That's a good idea.

Well, I don't think any of us thought that Eric Brightens might run for office again, but should the uh fifth district in Kansas City be split and run all the way through Colombia?

Eric Wrightens is one of the names that's being tossed out there as a potential candidate.

Bill, could Eric Wrightens be the next congressman from the state of Missouri?

Well, I'm I'm wrong a lot, but I I don't think there's a chance that Eric Greitens could win, and I don't think there's much of a chance that Eric Greitens would put himself out there.

I mean, I think that his days as a um public official in Missouri are probably over.

And gee, the guy's written books and he's got he's he has such a resume and credentials.

I think he should not want to be in public office, though.

I I think the when he ran for the US Senate against Eric Schmidt and finished third behind Vicky Hartsler showed that yeah he is he can he get some votes because of name recognition or people having fun or people who truly believe in him.

Uh but he finished third in a in a statewide vote.

Uh Eric Schmidt swamped the field but Vicky Hartzler who's unknown pretty much on this side of the state uh finished in second place.

And I think there's just too many other Republicans.

It seems to me that the Republicans along with Greitens, which almost seems to be, let's throw his name in to get some attention and clicks on stories, so let's mention them, you know?

I mean, because they're talking Curtis Gregory, state senator, former captain of the Missou football team.

You're talking Katie Ashcroft with the Ashcroft.

I mean, I just don't think he has a chance.

And I think where this gets really interesting is you're creating districts that could give the Democrats a chance here to pick things up because you're sort of diluting this district that was like what, you know, 70% Democrat.

Now you're like, we're putting some of the Democrats here, some of the Democrats there.

Jason Kander, I saw him on social media the other day saying, I actually won one of these districts when I was running for statewide office.

If he gets into this race, that could be really interesting.

He could also raise a ton of national money.

Well, did he he win that the new district?

He's saying if you look at how this is drawn, this is something that Yeah, I won.

Well, and Emanuel Cleaver, the congressman who's currently sitting and would be supposedly drawn out of his own district, he says he's running again no matter what.

Yeah.

And I don't think you should underestimate him even if he's a Democrat in this news new district because he's 11 and0.

Well, and I think he's the Democratic candidate by far the favorite unless someone who hasn't declared.

There's two gentlemen, Hartzell Gray and Jordan Herrera, who have declared uh good luck to them.

I mean, they don't they don't have a big history in politics.

So, I would think that Emanuel Clever is the smart money bet to be the Democratic nominee and and the only way they win is if Eric Greitens is the Republican.

Well, you brought up when uh Greitens and Schmidt were running against each other in the Republican primary for the Senate race.

Uh I covered Greitens on the night Trump was making his endorsement and he announced I endorse a candidate named Eric.

That's all he said.

But out at uh Chesterfield airport where I was with Greitens's covering the event, he was packing them in.

He had a big crowd out there and they were pumped that at least he didn't say Eric Schmidt.

They're like, "Well, at least it said just Eric."

And Eric Schmidt got more votes than the next two candidates combined, Arsler and Greiten.

Yeah, this see this goes to my point that just being able to get people to turn out that that's not enough to win.

The guy wasn't nearly enough.

You know, it's sort of like when people talk about a sporting event and they'll say, "Well, they had over 30,000 people."

Yes, that's the 30,000 fans they have.

No one's watching on television, if you will.

I mean, yeah, you can get people to say, "Hey, guess what?

We've got food and drinks.

Come on out."

Uh, but do you go to the polls?

Who else goes to the polls?

You know, and and those people don't.

Well, I remember when Greatton's won the governorship and I thought for sure this guy's going to the White House.

I mean, he was so funny and nice and he told a little joke about he met a woman at the polls, an older woman, and she said, "You're the first uh Republican I voted for."

And he said, "Thanks, Mom."

I mean, he was just clever and he the resume was out of the sight, but I don't think you can recover from all the bad Well, Gary Hart looked like a good presidential candidate back years ago.

Well, he didn't run in for any of the other office.

I I met the two young men uh that you mentioned.

They're both very enthusiastic.

I think they need to sit down and hash out.

Only one of us can run because they quite frankly they're they reminded me of the same person and then one is black and one is white, but you know, they they were kind of the same.

But Quinton Lucas, mayor of Kansas City, said he might possibly throw his name in there and I think he would be a former And that makes a whole bigger difference.

And and Jordan Herrera is try playing up the Hispanic side of of, you know, representing that sector of the population.

But I think they're they're rookies.

Yes.

And they're going up against a guy who's been in 2004 and he was a mayor and a councilman.

Manuel Clever is a formidable foe.

Quinton Lucas is a whole different ballgame than Mrs. Herrera and Gray.

There you go.

Now, it's hard to imagine this, but I think Sam Page was a rookie when he ran for office, right?

Well, he's still in office, but his uh trial for his uh alleged malfeasants as far as uh uh proposition s a okay God, right?

Let's do the whole alphabet.

We'll hit it right.

But uh anyhow, that won't be held in St. Louis County.

That's going to Green County in Springfield.

And Sarah, is this a good move by Sam Page?

I think it is.

You know, I talked to his lawyer yesterday.

Matthew Ratfield seems like a smart guy.

He understands what they're up against.

And he said, you know, Sam Page has a lot of people who love him in St. Louis County, but he also has some people that don't like him at all.

And it only takes one of those people where you could get a hung jury situation where otherwise every juror's on the same page and this person is going, I hate Sam Page because they shut down my kids sports during the pandemic.

I am not going to find him not guilty.

That's a huge problem for both sides.

If you end up with a mistrial, nobody wants to waste the resources.

So the only question was where do they end up sending it?

And I think Green County is a great choice.

This is one of the few counties in the state where like uh St. Louis and St. Louis County, the judges are not uh part of the party apparatus.

They come out of that Missouri plan where they're chosen by a nonpartisan panel.

And I think this is the best chance to actually get to justice here.

Well, why not Cole County where a lot of these things Well, so it turns out there's a two-year backlog to try to get in there.

Yeah.

And they don't want to wait that long.

So Green County though is so solid red.

You don't think that matters?

His lawyers felt good about it.

They felt like they could get a city judge and it's a bigger city.

They didn't want to do it in St. Charles County.

They felt that was too partisanly Republican as far as Sam page.

I I just think uh you know I think it's a bad case, but I because it's like night traffic court.

Guilty but with an excuse.

You know, yes, this really was campaigning on an issue, but everybody does it.

You know, I was just keeping up with traffic, but I think that uh Sam's in trouble.

Mr. Paige is in trouble because like you say, one person could hang the jury and then the case would still be pending when the primary comes along.

It could it could be a problem for him if it goes the right.

Medical license is on the line, too, isn't it?

Oh, I had if he gets convicted on the felony side, he a whole that's a whole another thing by the state a whole another state board.

But theoretically, yes, it could be.

But the big thing Sam has going for him is talking to criminal defense lawyers in order to prove this kind of charge.

You have to show that like a person knew that they didn't have the authorization to spend this money.

He clearly thought he did.

And as his lawyer said, this was also something where he consulted the county's lawyers.

They signed off on this.

So that could give him a defense that under the letter of the law, he's not guilty of the offense they charged him.

Oh, I hope so, sir.

Well, and and I think that a couple things.

One, I know like with the change of venue, probably a good idea.

And we talk about a solid Republican.

I I think we overestimate how many people in Green County pay attention to St. Louis County, like can you name a Green County commissioner?

You know, you just don't care.

I mean, so I don't think there's any personal grudges.

So, I think it's a very smart move on there.

Where I think it runs into is obviously this is going to go to trial.

Who wants to donate to a campaign of somebody who may or may not get convicted.

Uh so I'm starting to as Alvin has said on this show has maintained that Sam Page was not running.

I think that is more of a possibility because when you go out to raise money if you're facing being guilty of a charge and thrown out of office, who wants to who wants to give you money?

And speaking of formidable foes, he has one in Brian Williams.

Brian Williams and And so if they come to me and say, "I need a $50,000 donation."

It's like, "Well, are you even gonna be in office at that time?"

Or I could give it to Brian Williams, you know?

I mean, I I think, you know, Andy brings up that uh his medical license could be at play.

Maybe that's a reason to, you know, cut a deal and just say, uh, you know, I'm through with politics.

had a successful career.

I I just I think you I think you stand trial in St. Louis County because I think St. Louis County leans Democratic.

I won't call it heavily Democratic, but I think people would just think this is some Andrew Bailey foolishness.

And even though he's not there anymore, this is some Andrew Bailey foolishness.

You think 12 jurors?

Yes, I do.

Yes, I do.

I think they would say this is ridiculous.

It's it's unnecessary.

Blasy blasy blah.

I I really do.

And thank you, Joe.

You don't have to worry about that primary money or giving to Sam Page because I've told you here Sam Page is not running for county executive.

I' I've just I' firmly I said I was starting to agree right yelling at me for because how could you possibly I mean how could you possibly run now when you told the St. Louis County population I don't trust you to find me not guilty.

I think that that's you know game set match.

I I well I think the thing is is what you're trying to do is get acquitted of a crime.

that's got to be number one in your, you know, and everything else falls behind that.

So, I'm thinking that he with his attorneys sat down, looked at this, and they've got good attorneys.

They know what they're doing.

Uh, they're not worried about anything other than my job is to get you out of this crime, which is what you pay them for, not to get you reelected.

And I for all those things, I'm agreeing with you.

I got you.

All right, Joe.

I'm gonna stay with you.

Uh the mayor had suspended the minority business enterprise program which is basically the certification of uh minority owned businesses.

Uh last week it came back and you know standing shouldertosh shoulder where Megan Green and others.

Uh but why did it go away in the first place?

What changed?

And is the threat of the you know the Justice Department and Donald Trump gone away?

I'm going to say that what I think what happened was is that Carara Spencer made a smart cautious move uh but also didn't for the lack of a better word let down her support in the city.

You had a bill that she firmly believed the language of it was too much of the diversity, equity, inclusion that could cause problems.

They need money to clean up the tornado.

They need it from the federal government.

So they pulled that plan back.

They went and hired a law firm which is touting itself as being able to rewrite city's legislation so that it more conforms that doesn't violate those.

And then that way I think then Cara Spencer has always believed in the MBE program.

She never said well it was a bad idea to start with.

She thought it was a great idea.

I think it was you pull back, you take a look at things and then you find a different way to move forward.

I think it was a smart move and I think that's evidenced by none other than Megan Green who had said we don't need a new bill conceded in the stories that this one's better.

So I I mean I think it was being cautious without letting the people down in the city that Cara Spencer said she would look out to protect.

I don't think she said it was better.

She said it was different.

I think she said she liked this one better.

She was happier.

I stand corrected.

All right.

That's what I think.

I think it was a smart move.

All right, anybody?

Hey, as long as we're going to talk about Carara Spencer, let me mention that last week when we talk about the tornado, I quoted a NPR story that said uh that at a July meetings neighborhood asked for a dumpster and that they didn't get one.

And I got a call from Rasmus Schmidt Jorgensson who works for the mayor who said, "Uh, Mr. Mlen, we gave them three dumpsters.

The story the story was wrong."

And I said, "Uh, uh, Rasmus, I will mention that on the air, so consider that."

All right.

Dumpster gate.

I think the mayor was under such heavy pressure from her left flank, if you want to call it that, because if you're a progressive mayor, even if you're kind of pulling to the center, even if you have a tornado hit your town and you're going to need uh federal dollars, you can't dismantle the minority and womenowned business program.

So, she had to come back with something.

I mean, she had an excuse because the feds are saying, "Hey, you have any form of DEI, we might cut your federal funding."

Okay.

But she still came back with it.

So, she came back with All right.

So, isn't there the threat that we could lose the tornado money and be sued by the Justice?

I mean, there's always a threat.

You know, I think President Trump is is behaving somewhat erratically.

If people aren't on his side, he'll just yank their funding.

I mean, who thought Harvard could be in jeopardy?

from talking to lawyers who do constitutional law, they said, "Yeah, there is a way that you can thread this needle, but you have to be so careful in how you do it, and you also want to fly under the radar enough that Trump is like, I'm going to focus on Chicago today and you don't become the next target."

And the hope is St. Louis has pulled that off.

Okay.

I I think that's got to be it because I don't think, you know, I don't think there's any attorney out there in the United States of America who knows what's going to fly under the radar, right, of this White House because I I think it's all or nothing with them really.

Like their policy is zero DEI, nothing.

Like you don't give preferential treatment to any blackowned company or any female owned company.

But the US Supreme Court has said that you can.

And so they're kind of, you know, they've made themselves judge, jury, and executioner here.

That's not really how this does work or should work.

I think St. Louis also knows it can't afford a fight to go all the way up to the Supreme Court.

We don't want to be the test case.

Somebody else will be the test case on this.

Well, you know, you talk about threading the needle.

I also think in a way that Mayor Spencer is also kind of tiptoeing through a minefield.

You know, you you need the federal money.

Period.

There there's no arguing of that.

So, you need that help.

You are also far MBE programs.

So you you take it away for a bit, sort of redo it, but she's going to get and I'm sure she's finding out that this job is is wonderful in that you will always be criticized no matter what you do.

So you're criticized for taking it away.

Now people are going, "Well, now you're bringing it back.

You're putting us in danger."

So lose, lose, win-win.

I just think it was a smart, prudent move for her.

And we'll see where it goes.

Now how it pays off, nobody here at this table knows and nobody in the city probably knows.

Okay.

You mentioned the tornado, Joe, and the tornado funding.

Um, the mayor has put together, she said she was going to put together a committee of 30 plus civic leaders to discuss what to do.

But now she's going to have five committees based uh like kind of in sectors of where the tornado struck with the average citizen.

You come and say what they would like to see.

I just think that it's asking too much and people are going to ask for pie in the sky.

Do you think this could possibly work, Sarah?

I actually think it could and I think it's a really good thing to do.

I defended the last committee.

I like this one even more because you need sort of the eyes and ears on the ground.

There are, you know, sort of blockbyblock problems here.

Some things are so different if you just happen to cross the street.

And so to say, hey, we want to have our finger on the pulse of this particular quadrant.

What are the issues you guys are dealing with?

Great idea to assemble that committee.

I I think it's almost a surrender that we're just not going to get it done.

It's like having a committee try to put D-Day together, right?

the committee running Eisenhower had to do it and delegate authority.

I I'm afraid all these neighbors hoods are going to they're just providing information.

They're not running the response, but they'll be disappointed when when because everybody's going to want a new state of mind.

We're always disappointed.

Isn't this always what sinks something in St. Louis?

The committee approach, the study approach.

It seems like if you go back, I don't know, a century in the city of St. Louis, the thing that is needed most is someone just to take the reigns and say, "I got this.

Here's what we're doing in North St.

Louis."

Rebuild after the torture.

I'm going to agree with you and take it even further.

It's what hurts most of the country when it comes to political organizations is we have a committee which appoints a subcommittee which then has a special committee.

And what you need is a small group of people who say, "Here's our plan."

And you do that plan because otherwise all you're doing here is is you come up with a thing.

They're going to want a new track, a new swimming pool.

Nobody's going to say fix all our roads, pick up all our garbage because that's not no committee is coming out there to come up with boring ideas.

And pretty soon you're going to have committees with who can have the best, most innovative, most progressive idea.

At the end of the day, there's 14 alderman and there's a mayor.

Come up with a plan yourselves.

Okay?

Because I was going to say it's going to be the common thing is going to be community center.

We want a new community center, which has nothing to do technically with the rebuilding of a neighborhood after the tornado.

And I think we're going to skip pasting the structures that are down and the trees getting carted away.

And I just I I think you're wrong.

I think I think the people in these neighborhoods are saying, "Clear away the debris.

Help us rebuild these neighborhoods."

And I think you do see a small group of people at city hall who are tasked with trying to help this recovery.

One of them is a a former military colonel.

You have people in charge.

What this is is saying, "Okay, what are the conditions on the ground and how can we help you?"

Well, but you're already saying they're telling the city what they want.

So, do it.

What do we need to do?

Okay.

What is the issue here on this block?

What is the major concern that we have to deal with here?

That's what this is about.

Okay.

Well, all right.

Crime and schools.

So, now that'll be like I I want our schools to work better.

Well, wait.

Time out.

That's not what we're here to discuss.

Well, I want 400 more cops.

No, we I was just going to say, oh, yeah, I do want 100 more cops.

Uh, police officers.

I don't like to call police officers cops.

Sorry about that.

So, I think I don't know.

I I just think it'll create more confusion.

And I am not for like city hall just dispatching this is exactly what's going to do.

This is exactly how we're going to do it.

But technically, isn't that the mayor's job?

It sounds like you're saying you want city hall to operate that way.

That to me makes no sense.

Well, not only confusion but delay.

Delay.

Wait.

Right.

Okay.

But what happened?

The point is something tomorrow.

14 people get elected by the people in their neighborhoods.

If those people don't like the job those people do, you get new people.

If you don't like the job the mayor is doing, you get new people.

There's a role for citizens in government.

It's crucial.

That is to elect people who are going to represent your interests.

I always find this amazing is when an alderman, especially when it came to the the Rams money and that where the alderman have to ask the people in their neighborhood what they want.

Yeah, that's your job to know what they want.

Well, you can ask them that.

You don't have to have a committee.

Ask the people.

Sure.

Okay.

All right.

Got to wrap this boy up.

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We're coming back with Last Call.

We're going to talk about Seven Brew and long lines in Brentwood.

Possibly sheriff's in uniform testifying.

And uh if you hit that billion dollars, what would you do with it?

Thank you for sitting in Andy Banker.

Thanks for having me.

And I want to tell you, you were a hit on Reddit.

Sarah Fitzky saying what a just a marvel you are on this show and we need two more of you.

I disagreed with that, but anyway, my daughter pointed that out to me.

So, thank you guys for watching.

We'll see you on Last Call.

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