Welcome back.

Up next on OTR Lieutenant Governor Garlin Gilchrist II who wants the job that his boss now has.

Our lead story Republican speaker Matt Hall reports he and the governor are getting closer to a deal on a new state budget and fixing the roads.

We'll ask Zachary Gorchow, Zoe Clark and Chad Livengood to check in on this and the other lead stories this week.

So sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the Record.

Production of Off the Record is made possible in part by Bellwethe Public Relations, a full service strategic communications agenc partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and issue advocacy.

Learn more at bellwetherpr.com.

And now this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick.

Thanks very much.

Welcome to the studio C. Nice to have you back on Off the Record, Speaker Hall making some news or maybe not this week by saying he and the governor are getting closer to a deal.

But, quote, they're not there yet.

I and we're getting closer, but we still have a lot of work to do.

There are enough positive conversations where I'm hopeful we can do it by September 30th on time.

For the first time in what seems like a very long time there is some encouraging news from Republican House Speaker Matt Hall that he and Governor Whitmer are, quote, working forward and quote on a new budget and a new road deal.

They had a long talk about all this while she was in Japan last week.

And here's what he's saying today.

Her and I are are are working forward to try to solve this problem, but we're not quite there yet on a solution.

Yeah, So I wouldn't say we have a deal.

I would say, though, that we're having a lot of really positive conversation and we're working toward a deal.

But if we have a deal, I think we would announce the deal.

Currently, Speaker Hall says he is educating, quote unquote, the governor and her staff on how to fix the roads without a tax increase by eliminating waste.

You know I think once the governor sees all this and understands it, I feel confident tha she'll come our way quite a bit.

But but we're working on that.

Are you closer to a deal toda than you were three weeks ago?

Yes.

Mr. Hall says he is also working to get some of what the governor wants in this budget deal as well, and he's helping her to line up Democratic votes for th eventual deal if they get one.

They we're doing everything in good faith.

We can get a deal on time.

I'm encouraged by the conversations.

Of course, the critics will argue talk is one thing, solving the problem quite another.

But we'll know in 21 days whether the government is shut down or not and whether this deal came to fruition.

So, Mrs. Clark how do you characterize what the Speaker just said there?

I mean, it depends on the hour.

It depends on the day.

I will give you absolutely the note that the speaker sounds a little bit more optimistic than he has in some of his weekly press conferences, one that was not actually held this week.

But I mean, again, until, as he noted, there is a deal.

We are 18 days awa and folks are still concerned.

Well, do you think they're closer to a deal than they were three weeks ago?

Matt Hall certainly says they are.

Okay.

So you don't.

You.

Didn't hear him use the word Senate in that entire interview.

And the last I looked, it's not a unicameral legislature where the House just makes a deal with the governor and it's done.

The problem doesn't seem to be between the governor and the House.

The problem is the House and the Senate.

I haven't seen anything to suggest they they're one iota closer to getting a budget done.

I think in the back of his mind, he thinks the governor and he will put this thing together and throw it on the table and see what happens.

So he has said for weeks now, right.

The triangle, this idea that somehow it's going to just b then maybe him and the governor.

When the governor was asked about this, she said as much to to Zack's point, there is a Senate that is part of this.

There is a House that is part of this.

And they'r not all on the same page.

And?

I mean, this all comes down t what your definition of deal is.

And.

Woah.

Now we're in the weeds an and there and there is no deal.

And the Senate has been left out of this discussion.

And it's kind of confounding why the governor continues to let Matt Hall go out there and and talk about ho he's going to screw the Senate and with the governor's participation, that's essentially how he's presenting himself day in, day out.

And and the senators are just sort of seething over there right now trying to make sense of this.

Then again, they also have no presented their own road plan.

And the governor has tied a whole budget to a long term road funding plan, of which no one in Lansin seems to be all that interested in actually doing.

Okay.

We'll pursue that in just a second.

But I want to just add one thing that was not in that piece with Mr. Hall.

Here's his secret sauce for winning this thing.

He says this will be a repeat of what happened on the minimum wage and tip.

I'll supply the bulk of the votes.

The governor comes up with the best number that she can to get thi over the top, and we're there.

So it's not all incumbent.

Why are you going like that, Mrs. Clark?

I'm just listening to this analysis.

Well, doesn't it make sense if it worked once?

Do it again.

That presumes that Winnie Brinks the Senate majority leader will hold the vote and make a certain number of her of her colleagues walk the plank?

No, the governor will make them walk the plank.

With what, leverage?

Well, you tell me.

That's the face I was making.

I asked you first.

We're exploring.

The Senate Democrats seem pretty resolved not to just simply say how high when the governor says jump.

I mean, that seems pretty evident.

They have said all the way along, we are not just signing a deal on road and then figuring out the budget after we've yanked billions of dollars away from the regular budget to do roads, we're not going to give up that leverage.

So, you know, as long as they stick with that position, Matt Hall's problem is not finding a deal with the governor.

He's going to he and Winnie Brinks, they'r going to have to figure it out.

You do?

Go ahead.

No you go.

You did see this week Winnie Brinks talk about that she wants to find replacement backfill revenue for the school aid fund.

And this is all hinging on repealing the sales tax on gasoline.

Which there is agreement on.

That doesn't go well.

Most people would say we would like to do that.

That's the only agreement.

It's how you do it without angering the school groups essentially.

Who are already angry enough.

And so you don't you don't want to jeopardize and just just say, well, we cut a billion dollars over here and, you know, some of our math might be a little funny, some of the real allie on essentially not filling jobs.

Some of it relies on on o one time revenue or yanking back money off of off of projects, which is not reoccurring tax revenue.

I mean, the math of the House Republicans getting their plan is pretty pretty fuzzy.

And they're actually starting to admit that as much, at least privately.

I think what is interesting to know what you just said about the speaker saying that this will be like minimum wage.

I mean, the one thing here that is similar, right, is that there is this firm deadline, right?

So it was February 21st.

There needed to be this change to minimum wage as to before the law is kicked in.

And now we have, of course, October 1st before a partial government shutdown.

So in the fact that there is this sort of ticking time, amount of time that has seemed to be the impetus for deals so far at the Capitol.

I give you that what I think is fascinating, why all of us are sort of like, what is going to happen next?

And every 12 hours if you say, is there going to be a shutdown or not, everyone sort of like we don't know is it feels like it's this game of chicken almost.

I'm not saying that they're playing it a game, but who is going to blink first?

And I don't think anyone in Lansing has a sense of if it's going to be Winnie Brinks or if it's going to be Hall.

The weird thing this wee was in the middle of the week.

There was a boomlet that the Senate Democrat were going to have a road plan.

They had a press availability the next day, and there was widespread will say, informed rumor mongering.

How's that for a term, a Lansing special that a plan was coming and it was going to have the sales tax swap, it was going to involve a tax on marijuana and a couple other things.

In other words, the governor's program.

Essentially mirroring what the governor was going to do.

And lo and behold, the pres event starts the next morning.

And no, nope, there was no plan announced.

And then, you know, we and others began asking the Senate majority leader's press office, what about it?

Everyone saying there was going to be a plan.

And basically we were told there is no no, there was nothing announced so there's nothing to announce.

So it was really odd that it appeared from afar, like they walked right up to the line of finally Senate Democrats for the first time since taking the majority in 2023, they were going to put forward a road plan and then they didn't.

Why not?

Well, part of it is they're having a hard time just being able to explain what is what is Governor Whitmer's loan plan?

Could could anybody in Lansing actually explain that in in like 30 seconds?

No.

And I mean, it's not as easy as Governor Whitmer wants to raise the gas tax, $0.45.

She tried that.

But she wants to raise the corporate income tax.

I mean, where is the governor actually been out advocatin for a corporate income tax cut?

When is when have you actually since since the state actually heard the governor say, I want to raise a ta on wholesale price of marijuana?

One of these are the governorship.

When it comes to the response on TV to announce that.

Okay, why.

Not?

Well, because she doesn' want all the collateral damage of letting the people know what's going on.

Collateral damage is the second term term onl a governor going to experience.

My point here i nobody is actually out talking about this because nobody there is not like a revolt across the state right now calling for roads.

We don't have any polling data, but we've got a lot if you just go as the average person on the road.

Do you want another couple of summers of orange barrels lining all your roads you drive on?

And I think there's going to they're going to say, hell no, we don't know.

I mean, to Chad's point, we we this is a month ago, though.

Talk to John Truscott who helped Engler pushed through one of the last actual road deals, and then Jennifer Granholm actually a few weeks ago to about just sort of budget negotiations.

What both of them said they did to Chad's point is like actually went out and sold plans to the public, like actually went out and had town halls and had conversations.

And given we're in a little bit of a different moment because of social media and things like that.

But this idea of sort of taking the deal and running with it and explaining and what you really have instead it feels is sort of education versus roads going against each other publicly rather than the principals coming out and saying, here's what we're for.

I have to turn the page.

And some Republican electors found ou they were not guilty this week.

Well, not even that they were not guilty, that there wasn't even enough evidence to bring them to trial.

I mean, we're talking about not even the prosecution couldn't even establish probable cause in the judge's mind.

I mean, to say this is a whiff by the prosecution is a is an understatement.

I mean, these.

These were the people that wanted to get in the Capitol on the day that were certifying the election.

And voted for Donald Trump.

So we're going bac really quickly to 2020 election.

Michigan goes for Joe Biden by 154,000 votes.

A lot of Republicans claimed that was an inaccurate result and that Donald Trump won.

And so the elector who would have cast the state's electoral votes for Donald Trump signed a certificat saying they were the electors, that Trump had won Michigan and sent this.

The certificate was sent to the National Archives in Washington.

And so they were charged by Attorney General Dana Nessel with fraud.

The case dragged out for two years, and this week a judge in Lansing said the prosecution couldn't even show probable cause that a crime was committed.

So they're in the clear.

A Whitmer appointed judge.

In the big, the big loss, he attorney general, Dana Nessel.

The big question is why does she not put Trump aides who were involved in orchestrating this and getting people assembled at the Michigan Republican Party headquarters to sign this?

I mean, 80 year old grandma is essentially we'r kind of brought into the scheme.

They never were charged.

They never, never took the stand.

It's kind of an unanswered question about the prosecution strategy here.

So the question is, having suffered one loss, does she go for broke and take it to somebody else and let's se if we can find a judge say yay?

I mean, she was asked that this week.

Will there be an appeal?

I think TBD.

You think so?

To be determined.

Yet to be determined.

Got it.

We determine our guest is about to come on, the lieutenant governor, Garlin Gilchrist.

Lieutenant governor, we're particularly pleased to see you here this morning.

Your family has had quite a week.

You want to just tell us briefly what's going on.

I appreciate that, Tim, an thanks for having me here today.

Everybody.

You know, my famil received a credible bomb threat on our home in Detroit.

We very, very much appreciate how the Detroit Police Department Wayne County Sheriff, Michigan State Polic responded to clear that threat.

But, you know, I think about this as a husband and a father, first and foremost.

You know, I've got kids in Detroit public schools.

You know we had to talk them through it, you know, because they have friends who, you know the parents see what's happening and we got to make sure that, you know, all of us can navigate a crazy moment like this.

This is ridiculous that, you know, this is part of the life of public service, that this is where our system has gotten so broken to where these kinds of threats are.

Things that have happened to people across Michigan have happened to people across America.

It's unacceptable.

Governor, in your mind, have you ever thought, is this worth it?

I think public servic is worth it because ultimately, you know, when we are doing our best, when our communities are at their best, we're all helping each other.

We're all helping people be positioned to be able to be successful, order to pursue their dreams, have access to opportunity.

And as a public servant and as lieutenant governor, I've been really proud to be able to work on that for people all across the state of Michigan.

And it's fulfilling to be able to talk to a mom who has an idea for a business that she wants to create it.

You know, she was I talked to this woman in Petoskey.

She was her family encouraged her.

She was really good at baking.

And they said, you know what?

We think somebody will actually buy your stuff.

It's great to be able to support her, to be able to take that next step and actually sell something and then say that she is realizing her full potential, the best version of it.

It's worth helping people.

It always is.

It's always the right decision.

And look, you know, I grew up in church.

That's what my that's what I learn.

It's my faith teaches me.

And however, we have to make sure that people who are helping people are not the ones who are going to be put in danger.

We make sure that anybody i our communities are not at risk of their own safety just because they want t step out here for the community.

And I think everybody deserves that.

Lieutenant Governor, can you tell us how the threat came in, just how things transpired yesterday?

Yes, our understanding is that there was an email sent and a phone call made, you know, saying that there, you know, was an explosive device that was going to be at the door to my building and that it was going to go off either when someone opened the door to my building, it be clear like I live in a I live in a loft in Detroit.

I live in a building.

We have other neighbors who live in the same building This building is in it's in the Corktown neighborhood.

It's in proximity to a schools, in proximity to a church like it' not just like an isolated place.

And they said that when someone opened the door, it would explode.

And or if it didn't, if someone opened that door and within a certain number of hours, it would explode.

It was really serious.

And so I appreciate, again, how quickly the authorities responded.

And I appreciated how quickly they were able to inform both me and my neighbors abou what was happening, a building.

And they investigated thoroughly.

And we got the all clear.

Everything is okay, but it's unsettling.

Bomb squad from DPD came to your house?

Bomb squad from DPD was there.

A bomb squad from the Michigan State Police was there.

It was a very thorough investigatio and response by law enforcement.

I mean, these are.

These are women and men who certainly we all have a debt of gratitude for every day.

But certainly in an extraordinary circumstance like this, I do in a special way.

To the police.

Have any leads to your knowledge as to who made the threat?

So our understanding is the American is now ongoing.

The FBI is involved.

So the federal authorities are part of this as well.

And so that investigation be ongoing to see, you know, what they can turn up.

But this is an interagency effort to make sure that we understan it and get to the bottom of it, and that ultimately who carried this had to be held accountable.

And that's all to me, what's important and I think it is also incumbent and imperative for all of us to just make sure that, you know, how we show up and how we do the work that we do, how we communicate, how we do our jobs is we do so in a way that doesn't sort of foster or fester this kind of energy to be in our in our communities, to be in our society.

LG, obviously, Governor Whitmer.

Right.

Has has had the kidnaping attempt have you talked to the governor?

I mean, di she give you any words, having been someone who's who's gone through?

You know I've heard from a lot of people in in response, you know, friends, families, others.

You know, the governor did send me a message.

I was able to speak with you know, I was I talked to my parents, you know, mentors, friends and family, my friends both in Michigan and some of my best friends who live around the countr have heard from other officials.

My Lieutenan governor colleagues, you know, you know, Governo Josh Shapiro reached out to me, given that he had a bombing attempt that actually was carried out on his home, he reached out to to call me and talk.

So people have shown great grace and empathy in this.

And what the wor of encouragement is, has been is that you're a human being and it's okay to to make sure that you take car that your family, your children and my kids are young, middle school and elementary school, that they know that they are safe and cared for, that my wife has the peace of mind that our home is going to be cared for and it's going to be safe, going to be looked out for, and that it's hard to be grounded when that ground has been shaken.

And so we're working to mak sure that's good for our family.

But I mean, we take that.

But yes, Tim, let's go back to it.

You know, the work is important.

To help people is important And I'm not deterred from that.

Let it take some political questions to here, raise your right hand.

wait for the swearing in.

And please appreciate th respect that this question is, is as you watched the current governor as lieutenant governors do.

Can you in your mind, think of how many times you said yourself, oh, boy, I'm never going to do that.

Like the meaning I'm never going to do what?

Never serves everything.

I understand and be out of stat when the budget battle is going on?

Well, look, look, the role of the governor of Michigan is to protect and promote into defend the interests of the people of Michigan.

And that's a multifaceted job.

You know, there are a lot of questions and concerns and challenge and opportunities that come up for the people of Michigan.

And I think part of my service, you know, I have spent time i every single part of Michigan, all 83 counties, at least three times, having thousands upon thousands of conversations with people.

And that's what centers how I do my work now as lieutenant governor and what will center going forward, like making sure that I am, you know, here for people understand what's important to them.

They who are frustrated because they can't afford to, you know, have have a home or have rent that that actually fits their needs.

They're frustrated because they're running in place, haven't gotten a raise in five years.

And they finally got one.

And and now all of a sudde my rent went up the same amount.

It's my race frustrated about, you know, what the job prospects are going to be for their children going forward.

I think about that.

And and so what motivates me, what drives me every day is like, you know, what do I need to do to shop for them?

LG You you were sitting there as we were all offering our take from the budget and our understanding of where things stand.

You likely know more.

What did we get right?

What did we get wrong?

Where does the budget stand?

Give us some info.

We are we are getting closer an closer to having a resolution.

What does that mean?

I want to have well, firs of all, what it what I wanted.

I want to have a budget my birthday, September 25th, not September 30th.

So we might look at last Friday.

Rather not.

And overnight, you know what is okay.

I keep hearin people say we're getting closer, but what what does that mean?

What it means is, look, we finall and to just to take a step back, the fact that we're having this debate in September is dumb.

Like like the the we our administration laid out our budget proposal in the winter.

The Senate Democrats voted about proposal in the spring.

Matt Hall didn't put out a budget proposal until August, which last time I checked, is after June 30th.

So they turned the day homework late, but now we got it.

And now we're working every single day to make sure we can get this done, because I don't think that people of Michiga should have to suffer because, you know, the House took so long to get its act together.

So there is conversation.

You know, every single da the teams are working together to solve this, to deal with this impasse.

Are you optimistic that that I mean, tell me whether or not you think right now will there b a partial government shutdown?

I am hopefu that we will get this resolved and that there will not be a shutdown.

I continue to hope for that.

Lieutenant Governor, you're kind of in some ways the nexus between the administration and the Senate Democratic majority, because you preside over the Senate, of course, as lieutenant governor, spend fair amount of time over there.

There's a perception there's a divide between the governor, Democrat and the Senate Democrats beyond just the usual, this is a different branch of government, but they're not on the same page, particularly when it comes to roads.

What is going on there?

Why can't both sides seem to be rowing in the same direction?

Well, look, we're all rowing in the direction of making sure that we're able to maintain the services that the government provides to the people of Michigan that are super important.

And so that that remains that alignment remains there.

That alignment is ongoing.

Those conversations, that connections are ongoing.

The administration at the staff level is communicating this at the principal level, myself and the governor with the leadership there.

So that's that's continuing.

So, you know, this is but honestly, I don't think that the people of Michigan are interested in their super initiators who are curious about like, you know, what feels like their personal interaction.

What they want is this to actually be resolved is up to happen.

I mean, I was in Port Huron a couple of weeks ago, right before school started.

You know, those parents I met with alongside the educators in the proposal, they're like, you know, what's going to happen to this breakfast and lunch program?

We know what the district is saying, but what is the state saying?

Are my kids going to have the support they need to to to carry ou their 504 plans and their IEPs?

You know what is going to what are we going to to make sure the state is going to deliver for our young people?

And I think that's the important conversation.

And that's why that's what I'm really encouraging.

To please put some flesh on the bones.

When you said we are getting closer, does that mean that you are systematically agreeing to stuff that you will do together?

How I would describe it is, you know, now that we finally have seen what the Republican vision o the budget is, and to be clear, it's draconian that it's bad, like, you know, cutting higher education cutting job training programs.

That is how we need to position Michiganders to be able to make more money if they can afford these high prices, you know, you know, just undercutting health care by finding a way to somehow imitate the Medicaid cuts that came in at the federal level and then to say, well, we want to fight so that we can cut at the state level just to hurt more people and kick more people off their healt insurance, that's problematic.

But what we are finding now i now something put on the table that is the starting point for actual real negotiation.

So what it means is we're going through and saying well, here are the priorities.

We want to make sure we can happen.

How do we make sure we take care of our of our school breakfast and school lunch?

How do we make sure that we take care of our education professionals, support staff like that's what these are, what works.

So you are kicking stuff off the list of stuff that you can agree on.

That would be the deal is getting closer.

We're trying to get closer and closer every single day.

A deal means that we're things we've agreed on that's we're working toward.

As a candidate for governor on the trail.

How much do you hear about roads?

What I hear about most is affordability.

I hear about people who want t make sure that they can afford homes in their community, because in every single part of the state, people worry about housing affordability.

I hear about people who are worried about, you know, health care being able to afford it specifically mental health care.

It's one of reasons why I focus on that so much.

And I've opened up 40 new certified behavioral health clinics across the state of Michigan for the of people.

We're going to do an overtime segment?

Yeah, I apologize for interrupting, but the people who are jus dying to see closed credits from after that go back to wkar.org for more conversation with the lieutenant governor.

Production of Off the Record is made possible in par by bellwether Public relations, a full servic strategic communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and issue advocacy.

Learn more at bellwetherpr.com.

For more off the record, visit wkar.org.

Michigan public television stations have contributed to the production costs of Off the Record.