KATIE: TONIGHT ON TALKING POLITICS, LOCAL CITIES AND TOWNS ARE SCRAMBLING TO FIND ENOUGH SHELTER FOR THE INFLUX OF MIGRANTS COMING INTO THE STATE.

CAN MASSACHUSETTS KEEP UP WITH DEMAND?

AS MITT AND EXIT, WE WILL LOOK BACK AT HIS LEGACY IN MASSACHUSETTS, WASHINGTON AND IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

FIRST, STUNNING RESULTS IN THE RACE FOR BOSTON'’S CITY COUNCIL.

THE INCUMBENTS, MIRED IN CONTROVERSY, CAME IN THIRD IN THIS WEEK'’S PRELIMINARY ELECTIONS AND WILL NOT APPEAR ON THE BALLOT IN NOVEMBER.

IT IS THE FIRST TIME INCUMBENT COUNSELORS HAVE BEEN BOOTED OUT IN THE PRELIMINARIES IN AT LEAST 40 YEARS.

WHAT DOES THE SIGNAL FROM VOTERS?

WHO HAS THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN THE TWO OPEN SPOTS IN NOVEMBER.

I AM JOINED BY AN AUTHOR OF POLITICOS MASSACHUSETTS PLAYBOOK AND JENNIFER SMITH, A REPORTER FOR COMMONWEALTH MAGAZINE.

I WANT TO START WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU WERE ON HAND AT THE EVENT WHEN WE FOUND OUT SHE WAS NOT GOING TO ADVANCE PAST THE PRELIMINARY.

WHAT WAS THE MOOD LIKE?

LISA: IT WAS A SMALL GATHERING, AND THE MOOD WAS THAT FOLKS WERE SHOCKED.

THEY KNEW THE PROBLEMS, THE FALLOUT FROM THE CAR CRASH THAT KENDRA LARA WAS FACING.

THEY EXPECTED HER TO GET THROUGH TO THE GENERAL ELECTION.

THERE WAS A LOT OF EMOTION THAT NIGHT.

FROM THIS REALLY A CORE GROUP OF SUPPORTERS.

THEY BELIEVED IN KENDRA AS AN EFFECTIVE MESSENGER FOR THE PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT.

THEY WERE KIND OF DEVASTATED TO KNOW THAT SHE WOULD NOT BE ADVANCING TO A SECOND TERM.

KATIE: IN THE DAYS SINCE, YOU HAVE BEEN REPORTING ON HOW THE BOSTON MAYOR REACTED.

WHAT DID THE MAYOR AND THE OTHER POLITICAL POWER PLAYERS IN BOSTON HAVE TO SAY?

JENNIFER: I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE PROGRESSIVE POLITICIANS BECAUSE THIS ELECTION HAS BEEN FRAMED AS A REFERENDUM ON THE STATE OF PROGRESSIVISM IN BOSTON.

WHEN THE MAYOR WAS ASKED ABOUT THIS, SHE MADE A REASONABLE POINT THAT BOTH OF THE CANDIDATES WHO CAME OUT ON TOP ALSO DEFINED THEMSELVES AS PROGRESSIVE'’S IN THE WAY THAT MANY PEOPLE WOULD DEFINE HER AS ONE.

THEY ARE TRYING TO BRING ABOUT NEEDED CHANGE AND PUSHING FOR WHAT IS NEEDED AND NOT SETTLING FOR THE WAY THINGS HAVE BEEN.

MICHELLE WU DID NOT SPEAK DIRECTLY ABOUT BEING HAPPIER THAN ANYONE MIGHT EXPECT, THAT HER ENDORSED CANDIDATE HENRIQUE PEPIN CAME OUT ON TOP IN DISTRICT FIVE.

SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATE, PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATES CAME OUT ON TOP.

YOU ALSO SAW SOME VERY BELATED RESPONSES FROM FORMER CITY COUNSELOR LYDIA EDWARDS WHO SAID SHE WAS VERY EXCITED THAT THIS DEMONSTRATED THAT PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO MAKE A CHOICE TO HAVE A PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATE AND STEER AWAY FROM INTERPERSONAL DRAMA.

KATIE: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THIS DOES MEAN FOR THE COUNCIL, WHICH WE HAVE SEEN MIRED IN ITS OWN DRAMA AND A LOT OF INSTANCES.

WHAT DO THESE TWO LOSSES MEAN FOR THE COUNCIL, BOTH DEMOGRAPHICALLY AND IN TERMS OF ITS POLITICAL FACTIONS?

JENNIFER: IT KIND OF DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ASK.

MANY OF THE ANXIETIES AROUND THIS RACE DID INVOLVE THOSE TWO QUESTIONS.

FROM ONE PERSPECTIVE, KENDRA LARA'’S LOSS MEANS THE COUNCIL WILL BE LOSING A YOUNG BLACK WOMAN WHO IS OPENLY A SOCIALIST.

AND REPLACING HER WITH EITHER AN I.T.

DIRECTOR, WHO IS ALSO A BLACK MAN, OR A LABOR ATTORNEY BUT WOULD BE A WHITE MAN.

IN DISTRICT FIVE, THEY WOULD BE REPLACING -- DEMOGRAPHICALLY THERE IS A SWITCH UP.

IDEOLOGICALLY, THIS IS IMPORTANT, THE CITY COUNCIL IS OBJECTIVELY MORE PROGRESSIVE AND MORE LEFT-LEANING THAN IT HAS EVER BEEN IN ITS HISTORY.

THAT MEANS THAT YOU HAVE SEEN A FOUR-PERSON, VERY PROGRESSIVE WALK THAT INCLUDES BOTH OF THE OUSTED INCUMBENTS AND OTHERS AS OPPOSED TO A MORE MODERATE OR CONSERVATIVE BLOCK WE CAN SEE WITH WHITE IRISH COUNSELORS.

THESE BLOCKS TO KIND OF MOVE AROUND WITH A GENERAL LIBERAL, SOMEWHAT PROGRESSIVE CENTER.

IT LOOKS LIKE THERE IS A POSSIBILITY, DEPENDING ON IF THE PROGRESSIVES AND UP WINNING AND MAKING IT THROUGH, YOU MIGHT SEE MORE OF A BOOST OUT OF THE MIDDLE BLOCK, WHICH IS FAIRLY LIBERAL BUT DOES NOT IDENTIFY AS LEFT-LEANING.

KATIE: LISA, WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THESE CITY COUNCIL PRELIMINARIES, BEFORE IT HAPPENED, THEY WERE ONCE TO WATCH.

SHE IS AN OUTSPOKEN PROGRESSIVE.

WHAT WAS DIFFERENT ABOUT HER RACE THAT SHE MADE IT THROUGH?

LISA: IT WAS JUST THE CALIBER OF THE CANDIDATES.

SHE WAS FACING MOST PROMINENTLY TO PERENNIAL ALSO RAN CANDIDATES , ONE OF WHOM HAD MADE IT ONTO THE COUNCIL BEFORE.

BUT THEY WERE MORE CONSERVATIVELY -- CONSERVATIVE LEANING.

THEY WERE NOT -- THEY WERE RUNNING A MORE MAINSTREAM CAMPAIGN.

KATIE: WHERE DO THE PROGRESSIVES, THE ORGANIZATIONS AND ADVOCATES, THE CITIZENS AND VOTERS WHO WERE WITH ARROYO AND LARA, WHERE DO THEY GO?

LISA: THAT IS A QUESTION THAT A LOT OF FOLKS, A LOT OF PROGRESSIVES, THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE STUCK BEHIND THE CANDIDATES.

THAT IS SOMETHING THEY ARE GRAPPLING WITH.

THERE ARE PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATES IN THE FINAL, BUT THEY WERE NOT THE CANDIDATES THAT WERE ENDORSED BY THE GREASE.

IT IS A SPLIT OR SPLINTERING AMONG PROGRESSIVE IN BOSTON TO DECIDE, DO THEY WANT TO GO ALL IN FOR CANDIDATES?

THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN AS THEY GRAPPLE WITH THE FALLOUT.

ONE OF MANY THINGS WE WILL HAVE TO WATCH AS WE HEAD INTO THE FALL ELECTION SEASON.

YOU MENTIONED THE DIFFERENT BLOCKS ON THE FACTION.

WE DID NOT SEE ANY OF THOSE MORE MODERATE OR CONSERVATIVE COUNSELORS LOSE LIKE WE DID WITH A COUPLE OF HIGH-PROFILE OR -- HIGH-PROFILE PROGRESSIVES.

JENNIFER: ONE OF THE REASONS THEY DID NOT LOSE IS BECAUSE SOME OF THEM WERE NOT RUNNING.

COUNSELOR BAKER WHO WAS CONSIDERED THE COUNTERPOINT TO CHAOS ON THE LIBERAL SIDE OF THE COUNCIL, HAS OFTEN BEEN AT THE CENTER OF SOME OF THE INTERPERSONAL AND DIFFERENT POLITICAL -- DISPUTES ON THE COUNCIL.

HE AND AS HE WOULD NOT BE RUNNING FOR REELECTION.

THE RACE WAS CONSIDERING WHETHER OR NOT HIS CHOSEN REPLACEMENT, JOHN FITZGERALD, BACKED BY MAYOR MARTY WALSH, WOULD BE MAKING IT THROUGH.

HE WAS THE TOP VOTE GETTER, AND HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO FACE A TEACHER AND ALSO SOCIALIST AFFILIATED JOEL RICHARDS WHO MIGHT ACTUALLY END UP GANG -- END UP BEING WORTH A PROGRESSIVE POWER GOING -- IS GOING AFTER THE LOSSES.

KATIE: HOW MUCH CAN WE EXPECT BOSTON MAYOR WU TO BE INVOLVED IN THE NEXT STAGE OF THE ELECTIONS?

LISA: CONTINUE TO BE HEAVILY INVOLVED IN DISTRICT FIVE WHERE SHE WENT HARD FOR ENRIQUE THAT HAPPENED.

YOU CAN INSPECT AS SEE HER THERE, IT IS AN OPEN QUESTION HOW INVOLVED SHE WILL GET IN DISTRICT SIX.

SHE DOES HAVE OTHER CANDIDATES SHE IS BACKING.

HENRY SANTANA, IT WILL DEFINITELY BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHO SHE CHOOSES TO ENDORSE, WHO SHE DOES NOT CHOOSE TO ENDORSE.

AND HOW HARSH HE CAMPAIGNS IN EACH OF THESE DIFFERENT RACES.

-- HOW HARD SHE CAMPAIGNS IN EACH OF THESE DIFFERENT RACES.

KATIE: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

NEXT UP, THE MIGRANT CRISIS IN MASSACHUSETTS SEEMS TO BE GETTING WORSE BEFORE IT GETS BETTER.

GOVERNOR HEALEY HAS DEPLOYED HUNDREDS OF NATIONAL GUARD MEMBERS TO HELP EMERGENCY SHELTERS HANDLE THE OVERWHELMING INFLUX OF FAMILIES WHO NEED A PLACE TO STAY.

CITIES AND TOWNS ARE STRUGGLING TO FIND PLACES TO HOUSE THE MIGRANTS COMING INTO THEIR COMMUNITIES.

THEY ARE LEGALLY REQUIRED TO DO THAT.

NOW SOME CITIES AND TOWNS ARE CALLING ON THE STATE TO DO MORE.

SARAH JOINS ME NOW TO DISCUSS.

AND THE COORDINATOR FOR THE ASSOCIATION FOR HAITIAN WOMEN IN BOSTON'’S TASK FORCE FOR NEWLY ARRIVED PATIENTS.

PATIENTS MAKE UP A MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION COMING INTO MASSACHUSETTS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE TODAY.

I WANT TO START TALKING ABOUT THE REPORTING YOU HAVE DONE RECENTLY.

YOU REACHED OUT TO SOMETHING LIKE THREE DOZEN TOWNS AND CITIES TO HEAR FROM OFFICIALS ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE EXPERIENCING.

WHAT ARE THE THEMES YOU HAVE HEARD.

SARAH: IT IS ABOUT 40 MAYORS AND MUNICIPAL LEADERS, THE OVERWHELMING SENSE I GOT WAS IT WAS THREEFOLD.

WE WANT TO BE WELCOMING, AND WE FEEL LIKE THERE HAS NOT BEEN ENOUGH COMMUNICATION FROM THE STATE ON WHO IS COMING, WHEN THEY ARE COMING, AND THAT THERE IS NOT ENOUGH SUPPORT.

NOT ENOUGH RESOURCES TO HELP THEM.

THOSE WERE THE THREE THINGS THEY WANTED TO ADDRESS.

KATIE: ONE OF THE MAYORS YOU TALK TO REFERENCED THE FLIGHTS THAT RON DESANTIS SENT UP HERE, WE ARE AT THE ONE-YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF THOSE MIGRANTS ARRIVING ON MARTHA'’S VINEYARD AS PART OF THAT TRIP.

DO YOU FEEL -- HOW DO YOU SEE, OR WHAT IS DIFFERENT ABOUT THAT HIGH-PROFILE SITUATION AND WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW WITH THE STATES SENDING PEOPLE INTO THESE COMMUNITIES?

SARAH: THERE IS THE ELEMENT OF SURPRISE AND LITTLE COMMUNICATION.

BUT WHAT RON DESANTIS DID WAS A POLITICAL STUNT.

USING PEOPLE'’S LIVES, SENDING THEM SOMEWHERE WHERE THEY DID NOT KNOW WHERE THEY WERE GOING.

WHERE AS WHAT THE STATE IS DOING , IS SENDING PEOPLE TO COMMUNITIES AND HOTELS THAT ARE STATE CONTRACTED AND HAVING THEM STAY THERE UNTIL THEY CAN FIGURE OUT WHAT IS NEXT FOR THEM.

IT IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

BUT SOME MAYORS AND TOWN MANAGERS FELT THE SIMILARITIES WERE SIGNIFICANT.

KATIE: THE RIGHT TO SHELTER LAW IS ABOUT FAMILIES, THESE ARE PEOPLE WITH CHILDREN, PREGNANCIES, -- SARAH: WITH A 6800 FAMILIES THAT ARE IN SHELTERS RIGHT NOW IN MASSACHUSETTS, ABOUT ONE THIRD ARE IN HOTELS THAT ARE STATE CONTRACTED.

BUT A LOT OF THEM ARE ON HOUSED RESIDENTS AND MIGRANT FAMILIES.

THAT IS AN IMPORTANT POINT TO MAKE.

KATIE: WE ALREADY HAVE A HOUSING CRISIS IN THE STATE.

I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU ABOUT WHAT KIND OF WORK YOUR ORGANIZATION IS DOING AND WHAT YOU ARE SEEING ON THE GROUND.

EMMANUELA: THE ASSOCIATION OF HAITIAN WOMEN HAS A HISTORY OF HELPING HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS IN BOSTON, WE FOUND THAT IT WAS OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO HELP THE NEWLY ARRIVED HAITIAN COMMUNITY FIND THEIR FOOTING AND GET RESOURCES.

WE COORDINATED A TASK FORCE FOR NEWLY ARRIVED HAITIANS.

IT IS MADE UP OF EIGHT COMMITTEES, INCLUDING SOCIAL SERVICES, HEALTH CARE MENTAL HEALTH, AND EDUCATION.

WE ARE WORKING TO SET UP A SYSTEM WHERE NEWLY ARRIVED PEOPLE CAN GET THE RESOURCES THEY NEED TO LIVE FULFILLING LIVES IN MASSACHUSETTS.

KATIE: WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE?

WHAT KIND OF SERVICES DO PEOPLE NEED WHEN THEY GET HERE?

EMMANUELA: THEY NEED THE SAME SUPPORTS THAT PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE HAVE.

THEY NEED ACCESS TO WORK, THEY -- THEIR KIDS NEED SCHOOL, THEY NEED ACCESS TO FOOD, ESSENTIALLY THE SAME BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS THAT OTHER CITIZENS OF THE U.S. HAVE.

WE TRIED TO -- RIGHT NOW, THE MIGRANTS ARE STAYING IN SHELTERS.

WE ARE TRYING TO REACH OUT TO SHELTERS AND SEE WHAT THEY NEED.

I HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO VISIT ONE OF THE SHELTERS.

AND I TOLD ON THE NATIONAL GUARD IS COMING TO ASSIST IN FINDING THEM TRANSPORTATION AND FOOD.

I MADE SURE TO TELL THEM THAT.

ONE OF THE MAIN ISSUES WE HAVE IS A LACK OF TRANSLATION AND INTERPRETATION FOR MIGRANTS.

LACK OF CULTURALLY COMPETENT CARE.

WE ARE ADDRESSING THE ISSUES AS THEY COME UP, THIS IS UNPRECEDENTED.

KATIE: LET'’S TALK ABOUT THE NATIONAL GUARD, ONE OF THE THINGS GOVERNOR HEALEY HAS DONE, SENDING THEM TO SHELTERS WHERE THERE ARE NOT SERVICE PROVIDERS.

WHAT OTHER KINDS OF THINGS IS THE STATE DOING TO HANDLE THIS?

SARAH: THE NATIONAL GUARD IS GOING TO THREE DOZEN STATE CONTRACTED HOTELS THAT DO NOT HAVE THE SERVICE PROVIDERS.

WHAT SERVICE PROVIDERS TYPICALLY DO IS HELP AND ROLE WITH HEALTH CARE, PROVIDE BASIC FOOD AND NEEDS, A LOT OF WOMEN HAVE YOUNG CHILDREN, ARE PREGNANT, HAVING DIAPERS AND OTHER NECESSITIES AVAILABLE.

THEY HELP WITH ENROLLMENT IN SCHOOLS, WHICH IS A SIGNIFICANT THING FOR A LOT OF THESE SMALL TOWNS.

IT IS RUNNING THE GAMUT, HELPING THEM FIND LONG-TERM HOUSING.

IT REALLY RANGES.

KATIE: THERE IS A LOT BEING DONE AT THE STATE LEVEL, THE LOCAL LEVEL, THE NONGOVERNMENTAL LEVEL.

FOR THE STATES AND CITIES THAT ARE HOSTING NEW ARRIVALS, WHAT IS THE PRICE TAG ON THIS?

SARAH: IT RANGES SIGNIFICANTLY.

A LOT OF PEOPLE TOLD ME, I DON'’T KNOW WHAT IT IS YET.

OFTEN THEY DON'’T KNOW WHEN PEOPLE ARE ARRIVING.

IN ONE TOWN, THE TOWN MANAGER SAID THEY WERE -- SAID HE WAS NOT AWARE THERE WERE MORE FAMILIES COMING UNTIL THEIR CLERK GOT THREE BIRTH CERTIFICATE REQUESTS FOR THAT HOTEL.

FROM THERE HE WAS ABLE TO PUT TOGETHER A COALITION AND FIGURE OUT HOW LOCAL COMMUNITY MANAGED -- COMMUNITY MEMBERS ASSESS IT.

IT IS IN THE PRELIMINARY STAGES.

SOMETHING THAT POPPED UP A LOT IN INTERVIEWS WAS ROOM TAXES FOR SHELTERS AND HOTELS.

USUALLY HOTELS GIVE A ROOM TAX TO THE MUNICIPALITY.

BUT BECAUSE THERE IS A STATE CONTRACT AND THESE HOTELS ARE ENTIRELY GOING TO ON HOUSED FAMILIES, THE TOWN MANAGERS ARE NOT GIVING THE ROOM TAX.

ESTATE COUNTERS THAT BUT IT IS IN THE WORKS.

THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT SOME OF THE FUNDS THEY WERE GETTING FROM HOTELS STILL COME TO SUPPORT MUNICIPALITIES.

KATIE: GOVERNOR HEALEY IS SEEKING MORE MONEY TO HELP DEFRAY THIS.

SARAH: SHE AND BOSTON MAYOR WU WERE ABLE TO GET $2 MILLION IN AUGUST TO SUPPORT THE CRISIS, SPECIFICALLY FOR HOUSING AND SHELTERS.

KATIE: A LOT OF DIFFERENT PIECES HERE.

AND IT CERTAINLY WORK BEING DONE OUTSIDE OF GOVERNMENT AS WELL.

YOU MUST ALL HAVE YOUR HANDS FULL.

EMMANUELA: IT IS EXHAUSTING WHEN WE ARE SEEING A LOT OF SOCIAL SERVICES GETTING -- A BEARING THE WEIGHT OF IT ALL.

HOWEVER IT IS WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE NOW THAT THESE FAMILIES HAVE ARRIVED.

WE ARE HAPPY TO SERVE OUR HAITIAN COMMUNITY.

KATIE: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS WITH ME.

WE HOPE TO HEAR FROM YOU AGAIN.

FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR MITT ROMNEY HAS ANNOUNCED HE WILL NOT SEEK REELECTION IN 2024.

>> I CONSIDERED MY AGE AND THE FACT THAT AT THE END OF A SECOND TURN I WOULD BE IN MY MID-80'’S.

I THINK IT IS TIME FOR GUYS LIKE ME TO GET OUT OF THE WAY AND HAVE PEOPLE IN THE NEXT GENERATION STEP FORWARD.

KATIE: THE AGE OF POLITICIANS HAS BEEN A CAUSE FOR CONCERN LATELY.

AGE IS NOT THE ONLY POLITICAL OBSTACLE.

THERE WAS ALSO THE THREAT OF A PRIMARY CHALLENGE AGAINST ROMNEY WHO FACED MORE THAN A LITTLE BACKLASH FROM HIS OWN PARTY FOR STANDING UP TO DONALD TRUMP.

IS THERE STILL ROOM IN THE GOP FOR POLITICIANS LIKE ROMNEY?

OR IS THE MASSACHUSETTS REPUBLICAN A THING OF THE PAST?

I AM JOINED BY GLENN JOHNSON WHO COVERED MITT ROMNEY, HE IS ALSO AN AUTHOR.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

I INTRODUCED YOU, BUT I WOULD LOVE IT IF YOU COULD RUN DOWN HOW LONG AND IN WHAT CONTEXT YOU COVERED MITT ROMNEY.

GLEN: FROM THE BEGINNING OF HIS TENURE AS GOVERNOR, I WAS WORKING AT THE GLOBES WASHINGTON BUREAU AT THE TIME OF THE SALT LAKE OLYMPICS.

I PITCHED TO AN EDITOR GOING OUT TO SALT LAKE CITY AND SEEING IF I COULD CONFRONT HIM ABOUT THESE RUMORS HE WAS THINKING ABOUT COMING BACK TO MASSACHUSETTS AND CHALLENGING JANE SWIFT.

I GOT THE GREEN LIGHT, FLEW OUT THERE, CHASED HIM AROUND.

FINALLY OVER DINNER, HE AND HIS WIFE WERE HAVING IN HIS OFFICE, I GOT HIM TO TALK ABOUT WHY HE MIGHT RUN AND HAD ANN ROMNEY ALMOST BLURTED OUT THAT THEY WERE GOING TO RUN.

THAT BECAME THE OPENING ANECDOTE FOR THE STORY THAT WAS WRITTEN ABOUT IT.

FAST-FORWARD TO HIM SERVING AS GOVERNOR, THROUGH THE CEILING COLLAPSE, THE RAMP UP TO HIS CAMPAIGN TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT WHICH STARTED THE DAY HE BECAME GOVERNOR.

AND THEN ONTO THE FLORIDA CONVENTION HALL WHEN HE WAS NOMINATED TO BE THE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE.

IT HAS BEEN A BIG SWEEP.

WE HAD AN INFAMOUS CONFRONTATION IN GREENVILLE, SOUTH CAROLINA.

THE SWEEP OF HIS TIME AS GOVERNOR.

KATIE: WE HAVE A CLIP OF THAT INFAMOUS CONFRONTATION.

GLEN: IT WAS PEOPLE SEEING THE SAUSAGE BEING MADE OF RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.

BUT IT GOT AT ONE OF THE CHARACTERISTICS OF MITT ROMNEY WHICH WAS NEAR DUPLICITY.

HE WOULD SAY SOMETHING BUT ACT ANOTHER WAY.

HE RAN FOR GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS AS A FISCAL REPUBLICAN, A FISCAL CONSERVATIVE, AND A SOCIAL LIBERAL.

AS SOON AS HE BECAME GOVERNOR, HE SHIFTED COURSE.

THAT HAS BEEN A HALLMARK OF HIS CAREER AS A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE AND SNOW AS A SENATOR.

KATIE: WE CAN PLAY THE CLIP.

>> I DON'’T HAVE LOBBYISTS TIED TO MY -- >> HOW CAN YOU SAY YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY LOBBYISTS?

>> DID YOU HEAR WHAT I SAY?

I SAID I DON'’T HAVE ANY LOBBYISTS RUNNING MY CAMPAIGN, HE IS NOT RUNNING MY CAMPAIGN.

HE IS AN INVITE -- HE IS AN ADVISOR.

I HAVE A WHOLE STAFF OF CAMPAIGN ADVISORS.

>> HE IS A POTTED PLANT.

>> HE IS A WONDERFUL FRIEND, HE IS NOT PAID, I DO NOT HAVE LOBBYISTS RUNNING MY CAMPAIGN.

KATIE: YOU CAN SEE MITT ROMNEY WILLING TO STAND UP TO OUR REPORTER.

HE HAS EMERGED AS SOMEONE WHO IS WILLING TO GO UP AGAINST MEMBERS OF HIS OWN PARTY.

DOES THAT TRACK WITH WHAT HE WAS LIKE WHEN HE WAS GOVERNOR IN MASSACHUSETTS?

GLEN: AS GOVERNOR, HEAT LED A SOMEWHAT CLOISTERED EXISTENCE.

UP WENT THE VELVET ROPES, REPORTERS COULD NOT WALK INTO THE OFFICE, HE HAD A RESERVED ELEVATOR TO GO IN AND OUT.

THERE WAS A LOT OF STRUCTURE TO IT.

SOME OF IT MADE SENSE, ALL COMMUNICATION WHETHER HIS COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR.

THERE WAS A BUSINESSLIKE ATMOSPHERE.

BUT THERE WAS ALSO A PRELUDE TO WHAT YOU WOULD SEE LATER OF HIM SETTING UP A PRESIDENTIAL RUN AND HIS NATIONAL POSITIONS ON THINGS.

AS HE BECAME A NATIONAL FIGURE, HE TRACKED DIFFERENTLY THAN WHEN HE CAME INTO OFFICE.

KATIE: I IMAGINE THE DYNAMICS ARE DIFFERENT, HAVING TO WORK WITH THE DEMOCRATIC LEGISLATURE HERE.

GLEN: HE HAD A HUGE ROLE IN PLAYING AND PASSING UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE FOR MASSACHUSETTS.

HE WENT UP ON STAGE AND ASSIGNED THAT WITH TED KENNEDY STANDING THERE.

I REMEMBER TED KENNEDY TELLING THE STORY LATER THAT JOHN MCCAIN WHO FORESAW MEANT AS A POTENTIAL CANDIDATE, MCCAIN SAYING, MAKE SURE YOU HUG ROMNEY REAL TIGHT, HE WANTED THAT PICTURE OF THE CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN WITH A LIBERAL LIEN.

VERY FUNNY.

KATIE: ONE THING I HAVE HEARD AS PEOPLE REACT TO THIS, WILL HE BE ABLE TO MAKE IT THROUGH A PRIMARY, THAT IS A LOT OF WHAT PEOPLE WERE SAYING ABOUT CHARLIE BAKER.

DO YOU THINK THERE IS STILL ROOM IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FOR THESE KINDS OF REPUBLICANS THAT MASSACHUSETTS IS FOND OF?

GLEN: I THINK CHARLIE HAD A DIFFERENT LANDSCAPE IN MASSACHUSETTS AND PROBABLY COULD HAVE ENDURED.

BUT AT THE STATE AND NATIONAL LEVEL YOU HAVE A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION.

YOU HAVE THE EXTREMES OF BOTH PARTIES WITH A HAMMER LOCK ON THE PRIMARY PROCESS.

FOR A CANDIDATE TO WIN ELECTED OFFICE, THEY HAVE TO GET THROUGH A PRIMARY.

IF YOU HAVE TO GO FAR LEFT OR RIGHT TO WIN A NOMINATION, IT MAKES IT HARDER TO COME TO THE CENTER WHICH IS WHERE THE BALANCE OF VOTES ARE FOR A GENERAL ELECTION.

CHARLIE FACED A VERY DISCORDANT, OUT OF STEP REPUBLICAN PRIMARY ELECTORATE THAT HE PROBABLY COULD HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH BUT HAD A STRANGLEHOLD ON THE LEADERSHIP.

MITT AT A NATIONAL LEVEL WAS GOING TO FACE A GREATER CHALLENGE.

IT IS TYPICAL FOR HIM.

THERE IS A LOT OF REASONS FOR HIM TO WANT TO LEAVE.

HE IS 76, HE HAS MILLIONS IN THE BANK, OR GRANDCHILDREN AND THEN YOU CAN COUNT ON TWO HANDS.

A LOT OF REASONS FOR HIM TO WANT TO STEP ASIDE NOW.

THE REALITY IS HE FACED A DIFFICULT PRIMARY CHALLENGE.

OUT OF A CHALLENGE LIKE THAT HE IS SEEKING VIRTUE.

HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE BROADER LESSON AND POLITICIANS KNOWING WHEN IT IS TIME TO STEP ASIDE.

HE IS AVOIDING THE EMBARRASSMENT OF A POTENTIAL PRIMARY LOSS.

IT IS ALL VERY MITT ROMNEY.

KATIE: A LOT TO WORK INTO THAT ONE ANNOUNCEMENT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME TO RUN IT DOWN WITH US.

THAT IS IT FOR TONIGHT, WE WILL BE BACK NEXT WEEK.

IN THE MEANTIME, TELL US WHAT YOU THINK, THE EMAIL IS TALKINGPOLITICS@WGBH.ORG.

THE WEBSITE ISGBHNE WS.ORG/TALKINGPOLITICS.

FOR NOW THANKS FOR WASHING AND GOOD NIGHT.

-- THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOOD NIGHT.