>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> HEY, THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION OF DONNYBROOK.

GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

WE HAVE AN OUTSTANDING PROGRAM TODAY, INCLUDING A SPECIAL GUEST ON NEXT UP.

ON THE SECOND HALF OF THIS PROGRAM, WE'LL TALK TO BETSY COHEN.

SHE HEADS UP ST. LOUIS MOSAIC.

THIS IS AN ORGANIZATION THAT TRIES TO BRING PEOPLE LIVING OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES INTO ST. LOUIS TO WORK AND LIVE.

SHOULD BE PASS SN NATING AND THAT CONVERSATION AT HALF PAST.

LET'S MEET OUR PANELISTS, STARTING WITH THE NEWS DIRECTOR OF THE BIG 550 AND THE I COULD HOST OF THE JENNIFER AND -- COHOST OF THE JENNIFER AND WENDY SHOW, WENDY WIESE.

ALONG WITH A FOUNDER, MR. BILL McCLELLAN FROM THE ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH.

ANOTHER FOUNDER NOW WITH RAWSTORY.COM, THE RIVERFRONT TIMES AND THE BIG 550, RAY HARTMANN.

AND DRESSING IN GREEN BECAUSE TONIGHT STARTS THE GREENTREE FESTIVAL IN KIRKWOOD, MR. ALVIN REID FROM THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN.

>> IT'S TOMORROW NIGHT.

WELL, YOU CAN GO TO THE PARK TONIGHT, BUT IT STARTS TOMORROW.

>> OFFICIALLY STARTS TOMORROW, DOES IT?

>> YES, IT DOES.

>> WELL, SOME OF US WILL BE LINED UP TONIGHT SLEEPING OUTSIDE.

BILL McCLELLAN, WE'RE GOING TO START WITH YOU.

A STORY YOU DON'T SEE EVERY DAY.

ON THE 20th ANNIVERSARY OF 9/11, A SENATOR IN THE UNDERGRADUATE GOVERNMENT AT WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY PICK UP THE OVER 2,000 AMERICAN FLAGS ON DISPLAY AT MUDD FIELD AT WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY AND PUT THEM IN TRASH BAGS.

HE WAS CAUGHT DOING SO BY ANOTHER UNDERGRADUATE.

THE FLAGS HAD BEEN PUT UP THERE IN REMEMBRANCE OF THOSE WHO LOST THEIR LIVES ON 9/11.

SINCE THEN, SOME INCLUDING COLLEGE REPUBLICANS AT THE SCHOOL, HAVE ASKED THAT HE BE EXPELLED.

OTHERS ARE BLAMING IT ON THE CHANCELLOR AND SAYING THAT THE CHANCELLOR DID NOT REACT STRONGLY ENOUGH, IF AT ALL, TO SOME OF THE ANTI-ISLAMIC COMMENTS MADE ABOUT ALKILANI AFTER HE COMMITTED HIS DEED.

SO ACCUSATIONS AND CRITICISMS ALL AROUND.

WHERE DO YOU STAND?

>> I THOUGHT THE STUDENT WAS WRONG AND THAT THE CHANCELLOR WAS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT WHEN HE SAID THIS IS A FREE SPEECH ISSUE, AND THE COLLEGE REPUBLICANS HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE THEIR FLAGS, AND IF SOMEBODY -- AND IF MR. ALKILANI WANTED TO HAVE ANOTHER MEMORIAL OR A COUNTER DEMONSTRATION, THAT WOULD BE HIS FREE SPEECH RIGHT, BUT HE DOESN'T GET TO SAY COLLEGE REPUBLICANS DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT, I'M TAKING IT DOWN.

WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN TO HIM, I DON'T KNOW, HE'S A STUDENT.

WHAT WAS MORE TROUBLING AND AMAZING TO ME WAS THAT THE LAW PROFESSOR, GREGORY MAGARIAN, WHO'S THEIR FREE SPEECH EXPERT, CAME OUT AGAINST THE CHANCELLOR FOR HAVING BEEN DOWN ON ALKILANI, AND LET ME JUST READ PART OF THE LAW PROFESSOR'S ESSAY, THAT THE CHANCELLOR'S STATEMENT DENY OR ELIDED, WHATEVER THAT IS, ANY KIND OF SPECIFIC CONTESTABLE POLITICAL CONTENT TO THE COLLEGE REPUBLICANS' DISPLAY.

CAST THE COLLEGE REPUBLICANS AS THE VICTIMS, CAST PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE OFFENDED BY THE REMOVAL OF THE FLAGS AS PEOPLE WHOSE FEELINGS COUNTED, AS OPPOSED TO PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE PUT OUT OR OFFENDED OR JUST EMOTIONALLY AFFECTED IN SOME NEGATIVE WAY BY THE PLACEMENT OF THE FLAGS TO BEGIN WITH.

THAT'S IN FAVOR OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH FOR US, BUT NOT FOR YOU, AND IF IT MIGHT POSSIBLY OFFEND OR AFFECT ANYBODY IN A NEGATIVE WAY, THE CHANCELLOR IS NOT SUPPOSED TO SAY IT'S A FREE SPEECH THING.

I WAS AMAZED AND I THOUGHT -- YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT IF I TOOK THAT GUY'S FREEDOM OF SPEECH CLASS, I WOULD FAIL AND PROUDLY FAIL AND I'D HAVE MORE RESPECT FOR HIM IF -- I MEAN, HE HAS THE RIGHT TO SAY WHATEVER HE WANTS, OF COURSE, AND HE HAS TENURE SO HE CAN'T GET FIRED.

IF HE WOULD JUST WRITE A SIMPLE ESSAY AND SAY I DON'T BELIEVE IN FREE SPEECH, OR I BELIEVE IN FREE SPEECH FOR US AND NOT THEM, I'D BE OKAY WITH IT INSTEAD OF THIS LONG RAMBLING ESSAY IN WHICH HE SUPPOSEDLY BACKS FREE SPEECH UNLESS IT OFFENDS SOMEBODY.

>> I THOUGHT IT WAS SO INTERESTING, BILL, THAT PROFESSOR MAGARIAN SAID THAT THE PHENOMENON HE CALLED THE ACTIONS OF THE -- YOU KNOW, REMOVAL OF THE FLAGS, HE CALLED THAT A PHENOMENON AND HE SAID THAT IT WAS JUST -- IT WAS NOTHING MORE THAN EQUALLY AS EXPRESSIVE AS THE, YOU KNOW, DISPLAY OF THE FLAGS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

EQUALLY EXPRESSIVE.

AND I THOUGHT, IF A MEMBER OF THE YOUNG REPUBLICANS HAD REMOVED RAINBOW FLAGS OR THE ISLAMIC FLAG, I DON'T BELIEVE HE WOULD HAVE REFERRED TO THAT AS EXPRESSIVE.

I THINK HE WOULD HAVE DENOUNCED IT CORRECTLY AS HATE SPEECH.

I WAS STUNNED, STUNNED BY HIS -- BY HIS ARTICLE.

>> YEAH, THE STUDENT IS JUST A STUDENT, BUT THIS IS A -- >> RIGHT.

>> -- PROFESSOR.

>> WELL, I WOULD HOPE THAT HE WOULD SAY THE SAME THING, WENDY.

BE EQUAL ON BOTH SIDES.

I DON'T KNOW THE MAN, I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE'S COMING FROM.

I WOULD HOPE THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE TEACHING, LIKE, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, THAT YOU REALLY WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, AS BLIND AND YOU'D BE EQUAL.

I AGREE WITH YOU.

MY DOUBT IS THAT IT WOULD HAPPEN LIKE THAT.

MY TAKE ON IT IS THAT, ONE, THIS IS AT WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS ON GROUND OF A UNIVERSITY, WHICH IS NOT PUBLIC GROUND, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE IT'S A PRIVATE UNIVERSITY.

IF WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY DECIDED TO EXPEL THE STUDENT, I WOULD SAY, WELL, THAT'S THEIR VOLITION.

I WOULD COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH IT, BUT WHERE YOU DO THINGS MATTERS.

BUT HERE THE PART THAT -- AND MAYBE IT'S JUST WHERE I'M AT IN TODAY'S SOCIETY.

YOU CAN TAKE YOUR ACTION -- OKAY?

-- AND YOU CAN TAKE THE DEBATE ABOUT FIRST AMENDMENT FREE SPEECH, BUT TO ACT AS THOUGH THE WORST IN AMERICA AND THE LEAST COMMON DENOMINATOR WAS GOING TO COME AFTER YOU AND COME AFTER EITHER YOUR RACE OR YOUR ETHNICITY IS TO BE NAIVE AND IT IS -- TO BE LIKE, CHANCELLOR, YOU NEED TO COME OUT AND SAY THIS WILL NOT BE TOLERATED AND ALL THAT, WELL, EVERYBODY KNOWS IT WON'T BE TOLERATED, BUT THAT'S JUST THE REALITY OF THE WORLD AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT ACT LIKE WHAT COMES YOUR WAY -- IT'S NOT DESERVED, BUT IT'S A REALITY AND I THINK YOU'RE BEING A TAD BIT NAIVE IF YOU THINK THAT KIND OF STUFF WAS GOT GOING TO FOLLOW UP WITH YOUR ACTIONS.

>> CAN I DEFEND THE PROFESSOR?

>> SURE.

>> I THOUGHT I HAD -- WELL, HE HAS THE BENEFIT OF HAVING SEEN, AS LONG AS WE'RE ON ZOOM, FIRST OF ALL, I AGREE THAT ALKILANI'S REMOVAL OF THE FLAGS VIOLATED FREE SPEECH PRINCIPLES.

THAT'S A DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE PROFESSOR THAT YOU'RE ATTACKING.

HE ALSO SAID HE TRIED TO ERASE SPEECH.

HE DID DISAGREE, HE DID CRITICIZE THAT.

I'M NOT DEFENDING EVERY WORD OF THE PROFESSOR'S ARGUMENT, BUT WHAT YOU'RE LEAVING IS HIS POINT -- AND I DON'T REAL -- I'M NOT PARTICULARLY CRITICAL MYSELF OF THE CHANCELLOR.

HIS POINT, THOUGH, IS THAT BY IGNORING AND -- WHAT ALVIN JUST SAID IS RIGHT, BUT BY IGNORING IT, BY SAYING -- HE BASICALLY EFFECTIVELY IGNORED -- NOT EFFECTIVELY.

HE IGNORED THE ATTACKS AND THE ISLAMOPHOBIA AND ALL THE OTHER STUFF AFTER WARDS AND WAS SILENT ABOUT THAT.

THAT'S WHAT THE PROFESSOR CRITICIZED CHANCELLOR MARTIN ABOUT.

YOU CAN AGREE OR DISAGREE, BUT I DON'T THINK IF YOU READ THAT PIECE IN ITS TOTALITY, HE SAID IF CHANCELLOR MARTIN DIDN'T WANT TO SAY ANYTHING, THAT WAS FINE, BUT IF HE'S GOING TO SPEAK UP ON THIS ISSUE, TO IGNORE THOSE ASTACKED, HOWEVER PREDICTABLE, ALVIN, YOU MIGHT THINK THEY SHOULD BE, IS NOT RIGHT.

>> BUT RAY, RAY, HE'S THE CHANCELLOR OF THE UNIVERSITY.

HE'S NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR TWITTERVERSE.

HE'S RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HAPPENS ON THE UNIVERSITY, AND PEOPLE -- >> I THINK HE CAN DEFEND HIS STUDENTS.

.

I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE A BIG ISSUE OUT OF IT, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S SO UNREASONABLE FOR THAT FREE SPEECH PROFESSOR TO POINT OUT, IN HIS VIEW, THAT THE CHANCELLOR SHOULD HAVE BEEN STICKING UP TO DEFEND HIS STUDENTS.

>> I'M MORE -- >> AND TO TAKE FLAGS DOWN IS THE SAME AS PUTTING THEM UP?

>> WHAT'S THAT?

>> IT'S JUST SILLY.

I'D LIKE HIM BETTER IF HE SAID I DON'T BELIEVE IN FREE SPEECH FOR THE YOUNG REPUBLICANS.

>> I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE STUDENT NEWSPAPER -- THE STUDENT NEWSPAPER IN THE FACT THAT THE YOUNG JOURNALISTS WERE SAYING DRP THEY WERE IMPLYING OR INFERRING THAT SOMEHOW THE FLAG IS A -- THEY ASSIGNED THAT TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, COMPLETELY OBJECT LIVUS TO THE FACT -- OBLIVIOUS TO THE FACT THAT DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS HAVE DIED DEFENDING THAT FLAG.

>> THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE SAYING, WENDY.

THEY'RE SAYING THE REPUBLICANS IN THIS CASE -- >> NO, THEY SAID TACIT APPROVAL THAT THEY'RE ASSIGNING THE FLAG -- READ IT, RAY CLAM.

>> I READ IT.

MY POINT IS HE'S SAYING THE REPUBLICANS, AS THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO DO, MADE A POLITICAL STATEMENT WITH THE FLAG, WHICH HE SAID THEY HAD A RIGHT TO DO.

THE POINT IS -- AND I'M NOT GOING TO DEFEND ALKILANI FOR DOING WHAT HE DID BECAUSE IT'S WRONG TO TAKE THE FLAGS DOWN, BUT THE QUESTION IS, AFTER THAT HAPPENED, REMOVED FROM THIS ARGUMENT, DO WE JUST IGNORE THE FACT THAT THIS GUY GET AND TORRENT OF ABUSE?

>> WELL, GOOD POINT, RAY.

I WILL SAY, GOOD CHANCELLOR MARTIN -- >> YOU DON'T GET TO POKE PEOPLE IN THE EYE AND THEN DICTATE THAT ARE REACTION.

>> CHANCELLOR MANNER CONTINUE GET TOP BLAMED BY THE RIGHT FOR NOT EXPELLING THE STUDENT, HE GETS BLAMED BY THE LEFT FOR NOT SUCKING UP.

>> IT'S WHAT YOU SIGNED ON FOR AS CHANCE HOR.

>> ARE WE SURE THAT ALKILANI WASN'T DOING SOMETHING STUPID, BUT TRYING TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT BY PORTRAYING HIMSELF AS A VICTIM, KIND OF, I THINK, WENDY, WHAT FAISAL KHAN DID.

OF COURSE, HE IS THE INTERIM HEALTH DIRECTOR FOR ST. LOUIS COUNTY AND RECENTLY, AFTER HE FLIPPED OFF MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO WERE ATTENDING A ST. LOUIS COUNTY COUNCIL PUBLIC MEETING, HE CHANGED THE NARRATIVE ENTIRELY SAYING THAT, OH, THEY STOPPED -- THEY STEPPED IN HIS WAY, THEY SHOULDER-BUMPED HIM AND THEY YELLED RACIAL SLURS AT HIM, FOR WHICH THERE WAS NEVER ANY PROOF, AND HE KIND OF CHANGED THAT NARRATIVE TOO.

HOWEVER, THIS PAST WEEK, IT WAS ANNOUNCED BY SAM PAGE, THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE, THAT DR. KHAN DOES RECEIVE A VERBAL REPRIMAND AND A SERIOUS ONE AT THAT.

IS THAT ENOUGH PUNISHMENT FOR THIS FELLOW WHO PRETTY MUCH LIED ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCE ON NATIONAL TELEVISION AND RADIO AND ALSO FLIPPED OFF THE PUBLIC?

>> WHAT DISTURBS ME, IT'S NOT ONLY WHAT THE DOCTOR OBVIOUSLY ALLEGED AND WAS NEVER ABLE TO PROVE, THAT VIDEOTAPE FROM KSDK AND FROM THE LOBBY THE MEETING WHERE HE WAS SHOULDER-BUMPED AND PEOPLE WERE STANDING IN HIS WAY, YOU KNOW, THE ALTERNATIVE WAS ACTUALLY PROVEN TO BE TRUE.

NOBODY WAS BLOCKING HIS PATH.

HE WAS ABSOLUTELY NOT SHOULDER-BUMP BY ANYBODY, BUT THE FACT THAT SAM PAGE IS -- AS THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE, IS DOUBLING DOWN IN HIS DEFENSE OF THIS PHYSICIAN WHO HAS BEEN PROVEN TO -- YOU KNOW, HIS WORD NOW IS GOING TO BE SUSPECT IN THE MINDS OF A LOT OF PEOPLE, BUT SAM PAGE SAYS, YOU KNOW, HE DID ACT -- I CAN'T REMEMBER THE WORDS THAT HE USED -- REGRETTABLY, I BELIEVE, BUT HE WAS THREATENED AND HE WAS DEALING WITH A LOT OF HATEFUL SPEECH AND THAT -- SO HE WAS EXPLAINING HIS ACTIONS AWAY AND NOT EVEN MENTIONING THAT THOSE ALLEGATIONS WERE NEVER PROVEN.

I'M JUST -- NO, A VERBAL REPRIMAND ISN'T ENOUGH IN MY OPINION, IF IT EVEN TOOK PLACE.

BUT SAM PAGE'S BEHAVIOR, ONCE AGAIN, CONCERNS ME A LOT MORE.

>> I THINK YOU WOULD HAVE RECEIVED A VERBAL REPRIMAND FROM ME PROBABLY ABOUT TWO HOURS AFTER THAT MEETING AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, VERY HIGH SPIRITED, LET'S JUST SAY THAT.

BUT I -- YOU KNOW, WHAT PEOPLE WERE SAYING TO HIM AND WHAT HE THOUGHT HE HEARD AS HE WAS, YOU KNOW, WALKING OR WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF LIKE I HAD TO BE THERE AND BE HIM.

I COULD FEEL THREATEN TD WHEN I DON'T THINK YOU ALL MIGHT FEEL LIKE YOU'RE BEING THREATENED.

NOW, BEING BUMPED, THAT DOESN'T SHOW ON THE TAPE ANYWHERE.

I'M NOT MAKING EXCUSES FOR HIM, BUT I THINK WE ALSO NEED TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THAT SOMETIMES PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FIRED WITHOUT BEING FIRED, SO IF THE GENTLEMAN WAS TO BE WORKING SOMEPLACE ELSE HERE BEFORE THANKSGIVING, I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED.

>> I'M AGAINST CANCEL CULTURE, SO I DON'T SEE ANY REASON TO FIRE HIM.

YOU KNOW, HE'S GOING TO -- AS FAR AS SAM PAGE, HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE FACT THAT, IF FOR EXAMPLE HE'S UP ONE-ON-ONE AGAINST SHAMED DOGAN, IT'S A CAMPAIGN THING FOR SHAMED DOGAN AND A PRETTY LEGITIMATE ONE.

I'M DISAPPOINTED BECAUSE I THINK FAISAL KHAN FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN OF HIM IN THE PAST IS A REALLY WELL QUALIFIED PUBLIC HEALTH DIRECTOR.

NONE OF US KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED, BUT I THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO PRODUCE SOME EVIDENCE THAT BACKED AT LEAST SOME OF WHAT HE SAID, BUT I'M WITH WENDY IN THAT I AM TROUBLED BY THE LACK OF THAT -- I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK HE WAS SUBJECT TO NO ABUSE THAT NIGHT, BUT I FIND IT TROUBLING THAT HE HASN'T PRODUCED ANY KIND OF EVIDENCE.

BUT I DON'T THINK IT -- YOU KNOW, WE'VE GONE THROUGH THIS FOR SUCH A LONG TIME, I DON'T THINK IT'S SOMETHING -- >> THAT VIDEOTAPE IS A PRETTY HARSH JUDGE.

I MEAN, TEN YEARS AGO BEFORE VIDEOTAPE, PEOPLE COULD OVERSTATE THINGS AND IT WOULD BE OKAY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, NOW, IT'S REALLY DAMAGING TO, YOU KNOW, SAY THAT YOU WERE ATTACKED WHEN -- >> THAT'S SAUDI ARABIA CALLING.

>> DID YOU GET A LIFELINE OR SOMETHING?

YOU CAN TAKE YOUR CALL.

>> SOUNDS LIKE HE'S GOT A PHONE FROM THE -- COULDN'T CONSUELO ANSWER THAT PHONE FOR YOU?

>> NO, IT'S PEGGY.

>> PEGGY.

>> MAYBE IT'S YOUR AGENT ANOTHER COAST, BILL, CALLING FOR A BETTER GIG.

I DON'T KNOW.

HOW ABOUT YOU, RAY?

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE ST. LOUIS COUNTY COUNCIL AND THIS IS VERY STRANGE.

THE PROCEEDINGS ARE SO WHACKY WHERE WE HAVE ONE MEMBER OF THE COUNTY COUNCIL WHO JUST RECENTLY SAID THAT THE VACCINE IS A CANARD AND THE VACCINE HAS PRODUCED THOUSANDS OF DEATHS IN AMERICA.

YOUTUBE HAS TAKEN A LOOK AT THIS AND SAID THIS IS WHACKY, WE'RE NOT GOING TO AIR IT ON OUR PLATFORM.

SO THEY STOPPED IT AND I THINK YOUTUBE IS WELL WITHIN ITS RIGHTS TO STOP THIS WHACKY PROCEEDING, EVEN THOUGH IT'S AN OFFICIAL GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY PROCEEDING.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU, CHARLIE.

YOUTUBE HAS TERMS OF SERVICE AND THEY HAVE DECIDED, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT THEY HAVE AS TERMS OF SERVICE, AND TO THAT -- FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE, WHAT THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT IS THE HARM INVOLVED IN WIDE DISSEMINATION OF PURE FALSEHOODS THAT ACTUALLY HAVE CONSEQUENCE TO PEOPLE'S HEALTH.

AND SO WHETHER THOSE CAME FROM A CITIZEN SPEAKING AT A PUBLIC MEETING THEY'RE CARRYING OR WHETHER IT CAME FROM SOMEBODY -- REALLY DOESN'T MATTER.

THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE RESULTS, ABOUT THE FACT THAT COMPLETELY HARMFUL AND TOXIC INFORMATION IS BEING SPREAD.

SO, YOU KNOW, I PERSONALLY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT.

I KNOW THE COUNTY COUNCIL IS MOST LIKELY GOING TO GOOD FORWARD AND CHANGE PROVIDERS.

I DON'T PARTICULARLY AGREE WITH IT, BUT I DO UNDERSTAND THAT THE COUNCIL -- I WILL SAY THIS ON THEIR BEHALF.

I'M A LITTLE BIASED, HAVING CHAIRWOMAN RITA HEARD DAYS ON, WHO I HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR, AND I THINK SHE GENUINELY FEELS THIS IS A FREE SPEECH ISSUE.

I DON'T AGREE, BUT I'M GETTING THEY'LL MOVE ON TO A DIFFERENT PROVIDER.

>> I DON'T THINK THAT YOUTUBE SHOULD CENSOR A GOVERNMENTAL MEETING.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH FACEBOOK OR SOMETHING STAYING OFF POSTS THAT THEY THINK ARE BAD, FAKE NEWS, DISSEMINATING DISINFORMATION, BUT IN A GOVERNMENTAL MEETING, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S A COUNTY COUNCIL MEMBER TALKING, I LOOK THE IDEA OF GETTING HIM ON THE RECORD FOR BEING LOONY.

>> I AGREE, I AGREE.

AND ALSO, THEY COULD CERTAINLY -- >> I THINK THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE A LOON.

>> BUT THEY -- GO AHEAD, ALVIN.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, PUT A DISCLAIMER ON.

HAVE A VOICE THAT'S LIKE, THIS IS A PUBLIC MEETING, THINGS WILL BE SAID THAT ARE NOT FACTUALLY CORRECT AND SOMEWHAT INSANE.

AND THEN JUST LEAD ON INTO THE -- THIS HAPPENED.

I'LL TELL YOU A STORY.

ONE TIME, POLICE WERE ARRESTING A BLACK MAN, ONE TIME AT LANSING, MICHIGAN.

HE HAD A GUN ON HIM AND HIS FOOT WAS ON HIS CHEST.

AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SAID WE CAN'T RUN THAT PICTURE, WE CAN'T RUN THAT PICTURE.

I SAID, LISTEN, IF YOU WERE WALKING DOWN ELM STREET AT 4:30 -- AND IT WAS ELM STREET, IF YOU CAN BELIEVE THAT.

IF YOU WERE WALKING DOWN ELM STREET AT 4:35 P.M. ON TUESDAY, YOU SAW THIS.

WHATEVER YOU WANT TO THINK ABOUT IT, IT HAPPENED.

THAT'S HOW I FEEL ABOUT THIS GOVERNMENTAL MEETING, IT HAPPENED AND IT WAS SAID.

>> I AGREE WITH EVERYBODY, BUT AS PRIVATE STREAMING SERVICE, YOU KNOW, THE COUNCIL CERTAINLY HAS -- I MEAN, OTHER SERVICES, STREAMING SERVICES WOULD BE AVAILABLE, RIGHT?

I MEAN, IT'S NOT -- YOUTUBE IS NOT THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN.

I APPLAUD YOUTUBE FOR, YOU KNOW, DOING WHAT IT'S PROMISED ITS SUB SUBSCRIBERS THAT IT'S GOING TO DO.

>> CONSIDERING THAT THESE CRAZY WORDS, THEY'RE LOONY, THEY'RE INSANE, WITH RESULT IN PEOPLE'S DEATH.

>> CHARLIE, CAN I MAKE TWO QUICK POINTS, REAL QUICK?

>> I DON'T KNOW, CAN YOU?

WE'LL FIND OUT.

>> THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

IT WASN'T JUST ERNIE TRAKAS.

IT WAS, I THINK, THE FOLKS WEARING TIN FOIL HATS OR WHATEVER IN THE AUDIENCE THAT PROBABLY PROMPTED THIS, SO IT WASN'T JUST HIS COMMENTS.

AND THE SECOND IS I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH BILL WITH REGARD TO NOT REMOVING -- FOR EXAMPLE, THE COUNTY COUNCIL ON ITS WEBSITE SHOULD DEFINITELY KEEP THAT POSTED.

I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THAT POINT.

I JUST SEE -- I CAN SEE YOUTUBE JUST MAKING ITS DECISION, BUT I AGREE -- >> BUT RAY, TRAKAS IS AN AN ELECTED -- >> BUT I AGREE WITH THAT POINT.

>> TRAKAS IS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL.

SO A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO -- THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME WEIGHT THAT TS SORT OF AFFORDED TO THAT OPINION.

AND IT'S -- YOU KNOW, I THINK ALL THE DISCLAIMERS IN THE WORLD AREN'T GOING TO CHANGE THE MINDS OF THESE PEOPLE IN THE TIN FOIL HATS.

BUT YEAH -- GO AHEAD, I'M SORRY, CHARLIE.

>> NO, I WANT TO MOVE ON TO ALVIN REID BECAUSE SPEAKING OF THE VACCINE, THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS DID EXPEND $1.25 MILLION FOR -- OR AT LEAST APPROPRIATED $1.25 MILLION FOR GIFT CARDS AS AN INCENTIVE FOR TEAM TO GET THE VACCINE AND SINCE THEY'VE DONE THAT, A TOTAL OF 48 EMPLOYEES IN CITY GOVERNMENT HAVE PICKED UP THAT INCENTIVE AND GOTTEN THE VACCINE.

THEN IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC, A CITY OF 300,000, 228 OF THOSE GIFT CARDS HAVE BEEN SENT OUT TO PEOPLE WHO GOT VAXED.

CURRENTLY, THE NUMBERS ARE NOT THAT GOOD WHEN IT COMES TO VACCINATION IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS.

SO IT'S NOT THE GIFT CARD, WHAT CAN BE DONE TO GET ST. LOUIS CITY AND OTHER COUNTIES, FRANKLY, VACCINATED?

>> I DON'T THINK IT WAS A BAD IDEA TO TRY AND IF YOU CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING BETTER, TRY.

BUT ALSO, HEY, YOU HAVE TO GET VACCINATED OR YOU CAN'T WORK HERE, OKAY?

YOU HAVE TO GET VACCINATED OR MOVE ON TO ANOTHER JOB.

THAT'S -- I JUST DON'T SEE WHAT THE PROBLEM WITH THAT.

WELL, THEY'LL QUIT.

WELL, THEY'LL SUE.

WELL, QUIT, SUE, DO WHATEVER IT IS YOU HAVE TO DO, OKAY?

BECAUSE IT'S JUST -- WE'VE REACHED A POINT NOW WHERE IT'S OBVIOUS THAT THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO MAKE SOME PEOPLE GET VACCINATED, ALL RIGHT?

AND IT SEEMS LIKE THE ONLY STORIES WE HEAR ARE, AFTER PEOPLE HAVE DIED AND THEN THE FAMILY IS SAYING LIKE, AS THEY SAY THERE ON THEIR DEATHBED, THEY SAY, I WISH I HAD BEEN VACCINATED.

SO IT'S JUST TIME TO JUST MOVE ON AND JUST, YOU KNOW, DARN THE TORPEDOS AND YOU HAVE TO GET VACCINATED.

SIMPLE AS THAT.

I'M TALKING ABOUT MUNICIPALITIES, OKAY?

WE TRIED THE GIFT CARD, WE TRIED THIS, WE TRIED THAT.

WELL, NOW IT'S TIME TO GET VACCINATED.

>> THE COUNTY COUNCIL LAST NIGHT PASSED BY 4-3, ALONG PARTISAN LINES AGAIN, FOUR DEMOCRATS PASSED A MEASURE PROVIDING FOR THE COUNTY WORKERS, TO REQUIRE VACCINES, BUT -- AND THIS IS A KEY POINT THAT KEEPS GETTING LEFT OUT.

IF YOU DON'T TAKE THE VACCINE, YOU CAN KEEP YOUR JOB, BUT YOU HAVE TO SUBMIT TO TWO THINGS.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE WEEKLY TESTING EVERY SEVEN DAYS, AND YOU HAVE TO WEAR A MASK.

NOW, IF IT WAS JUST REQUIRING PEOPLE TO GET THE JAB, THAT WOULD BE ONE THING, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE AN OUT, PEOPLE ARE ESSENTIALLY SAYING ON THE OTHER SIDE, AND THIS HAS BECOME A NATIONAL TALKING POINT THAT, YOU HAVE A RIGHT SOMEHOW TO SPREAD AN INFECTIOUS DISEASE.

IT'S THE MOST SENSELESS THING I'VE EVER HEARD.

IN EFFECT, YOU CAN KNOW YOU HAD COVID AND STILL BE ENTITLED TO COME TO WORK WITHOUT A MASK.

IT JUST MAKES NO SENSE.

>> I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO TREAT THE UNVAXED LIKE ADULTS.

IF THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE THE DECISION NOT TO GET VACCINATED, THEN IF THEY DO GO TO THE HOSPITAL, THEY HAVE TO BE CHARGED MORE FOR THEIR PATIENT CARE.

AFTER ALL, IT'S AN UNNECESSARY -- THEY'RE IN THE HOSPITAL UNNECESSARILY, BUT THE OTHER THING IS, I THINK THAT WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO TRIAGE AND DECIDING WHO GETS THAT BED, SIT THE CARDIAC PATIENT OR THE CAR ACCIDENT VICTIM OR THE UNVAXED COVID SUFFERER, I WOULD SAY THE COVID SUFFERER SHOULD BE THIRD IN LINE, IF NOT FOURTH, IF THAT PERSON GETS IN AT ALL AT THIS POINT.

OKAY, LET'S MOVE ON THEN.

WHO'S NEXT?

I THINK IT'S YOU, BILL McCLELLAN.

HOW ABOUT THE MAYOR WHO CAME OUT WITH A DOWNTOWN PLAN THIS WEEK TO TRY AND FIGHT CRIME?

AS YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T HAVE A GREAT WEEK IN DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS.

TWO TEENAGERS SHOT, A GUY KILLED AT 13th AND CONVENTION, AND EVEN AN NHL PROSPECT FOR THE ST. LOUIS BLUES AND HIS GIRLFRIEND WERE ROBBED ON THE ARCH GROUNDS.

THE MAYOR SAID AFTER WEEKS OF SAYING SHE WOULDN'T ADD MORE POLICE TO DOWNTOWN, THAT SHE'S GOING TO DO THAT, AN EXTRA 30 ON A TEMPORARY BASIS ON WEEKENDS AND SHE'S GOING TO ADD LOTS OF PROGRAMMING, LIKE CONCERTS DOWNTOWN TO PUT MORE PEOPLE ON THE SIDEWALKS.

YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> WELL, IT'S A START.

I MEAN, I THINK THAT THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY'S OUTRAGE ABOUT THE CONDITION OF DOWNTOWN HAS GOTTEN THE MAYOR'S ATTENTION, AND SHE'S -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S -- SHE'S STILL GOING TO -- THE POLICE HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN THAT SHE WOULDN'T FUND THE 100 POSITIONS THAT WERE VACANT AND HAD BEEN USED FOR OVERTIME, BUT I THINK THAT SHE HAS TO DO SOMETHING AND SO I'M GOING TO SAY GOOD FOR HER.

AND I SHOULDN'T MAKE LIGHT OF THE BLUES GUY GETTING ROBBED DOWN BY THE AFTERNOON, BUT MAYBE THE MAYOR'S PLAN IS WORKING AND WE'RE DRIVING THE CRIMINALS DOWN TOWARDS THE RIVER.

>> THAT'S A THEORY -- >> IT'S HARD NOT TO TAKE -- HARD TO TAKE THIS WHOLE THING TOO SERIOUSLY.

IT'S SUCH A MESS.

>> IT'S SUCH A MESS AND CRIME IS LIKE WATER, IT WILL FIND WHERE IT NEEDS TO GO, THAT'S A THEORY, BUT DOWNTOWN AND JUST -- LOOK, THE CITY TOOK CONTROL OF THE -- OF REIGN, THE NIGHTCLUB, THE RESTAURANT, WHATEVER IT WAS BECAUSE IT WAS JUST LIKE WILD WEST DAYS, AND I'VE SAID THIS ALL ALONG.

JUST GET AS MANY COPS AS YOU CAN ON THE CORNERS IN YOUR ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT.

MEMPHIS DOES IT, OTHER PLACES DO IT.

IT'S TIME -- ST. LOUIS SHOULD HAVE DONE IT 20 YEARS AGO.

AT LEAST, ALL RIGHT, IF WE'RE GOING TO BE ANY KIND OF SUCCESS, THIS HAS TO BE SAFE AND THIS HAS TO BE PEACEFUL.

AND I'M SORRY, YOU KNOW, OUTLYING AREAS OF ST. LOUIS, NOT JUST NORTH.

SOUTH, EAST, WEST.

BUT DOWNTOWN HAS GOT TO BE SAFE AND PRODUCTIVE OR IT ALL FAILS.

AND THAT INCLUDES THE STATE OF MISSOURI, BY THE WAY.

>> 30 SECONDS LEFT.

>> YOU KNOW, THIS IS, THIS IS WHERE IT HAS TO HAPPEN.

THIS IS THE LARGEST METROPOLITAN AREA IN THIS STATE AND IT HAS TO BE SAFE AND IT HAS TO BE PROTECTED.

>> WELL, MR. GREENTREE FESTIVAL, I THINK YOUR WORDS ARE THE LAST ONE FOR THIS EDITION.

ALVIN, YOU'RE ON THE BOARD OF THE GREENTREE FESTIVAL IN KIRKWOOD.

IT STARTS TOMORROW, HAVE A GREAT TIME.

MAYBE I'LL SEE YOU THERE.

>> COME SEE US!

>> ABSOLUTELY.

STAY TUNED BECAUSE IN JUST A MOMENT, WE HAVE AN INTERVIEW, I THINK WITH WENDY AND ALVIN TALKING TO BETSY COHEN, THE CEO OF THE ST. LOUIS MOSAIC PROJECT, TALKING ABOUT LURING INTERNATIONAL PEOPLE TO ST. LOUIS TO WORK AND LIVE.

THAT'S COMING UP NEXT.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>>> WELL, WELCOME BACK.

WENDY WIESE AND ALVIN REID WITH YOU.

HEY, TOMORROW, CITIZENSHIP DAY, SEPTEMBER THE 17th, WE'RE HONORED TO BE JOIN BY BETSY COHEN.

BETSY COHEN IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ST. LOUIS MOSAIC PROJECT AND SHE'S ALSO AUTHOR OF "WELCOME TO THE USA, YOU'RE HIRED."

WELCOME, BETSY.

>> THANK YOU.

GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

SO OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE SPENT A LOT OF TIME RESEARCHING AND HELPING OUT INDIVIDUALS COMING TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TRYING TO BEGIN A CAREER OR START A LIFE, AND YOU AUTHORED THIS BOOK.

TELL US ABOUT IT AND SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE MOST IMPORTANT TO THAT AUDIENCE THAT YOU'RE REACHING OUT TO.

>> WELL, IN THE PAST EIGHT YEARS AS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ST. LOUIS MOSAIC PROJECT, I'VE WORKED WITH HUNDREDS OF FOREIGN-BORN PEOPLE AS THEY HAVE LOOKED TO FIND JOBS, AND DURING THE PANDEMIC, WE DID A LOT OF COACHING, ONE-ON-ONE, BECAUSE WE WEREN'T HAVING IN-PERSON MEETINGS.

I WAS POSTING MANY TIPS ON LINKED-IN AND ACTUALLY SOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL PEOPLE SAID BETSY, YOU SHOULD PUT THAT IN A BOOK.

SO IN MARCH, I DECIDED IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO PUT ALL THIS ADVICE IN A BOOK BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE IMMIGRATION OPENING UP AND WITH VACCINATIONS, WE WOULD HAVE JOBS OPENING UP, AND THIS COULD BE THE RIGHT TIME TO HELP OUR FOREIGN-BORNE PEOPLE OF ALL DIFFERENT SKILL LEVELS TO UNDERSTAND THE INS AND OUTS OF THE AMERICAN JOB MARKET.

THERE'S NO BOOK LIKE THIS ON THE MARKET.

>> THAT'S FOR SURE, AND YOU HAVE -- YOU HAVE BEEN JUST -- YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY INCREDIBLY RESPECTED.

AND THE BOOK IS SEEN AS SOMETHING THAT IS SO CRITICAL BECAUSE WE ALWAYS FOCUS ON GETTING PEOPLE HERE, BUT THEN WHAT HAPPENS?

AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ANSWER, ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS IN YOUR BOOK.

THE ONE THING THAT I'M KIND OF CURIOUS ABOUT, BETSY, IN THE LAST EIGHT YEARS, IF YOU COULD SHARE WITH OUR VIEWERS HOW THE CLIMATE HAS CHANGED, HOW THE CULTURE HAS CHANGED.

I WOULD IMAGINE THAT THE LANDSCAPE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TODAY THAN IT WAS EIGHT YEARS AGO.

IS IT OR IS IT NOT?

>> YES, BECAUSE EIGHT YEARS AGO, WE WERE REALLY OPENING UP AND IN A SITUATION OF WELCOMING MANY MORE FOREIGN-BORN TO THE COMMUNITY NATIONWIDE AND LOCALLY AS WELL.

AND THEN IN THE PAST ADMINISTRATION, THERE WERE RESTRICTIONS.

IT WAS A MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TIME, AND THEN WE HAD COVID.

SO SO MUCH IMMIGRATION HAD SLOWED DOWN AND THEN NOW WE'RE IN AN OPENING UP MODE.

SO IT PUTS A REALLY DIFFERENT SPIN ON THINGS.

>> OKAY, BUT THOSE THAT ARE HERE NOW, AND LIKE I SAID, MAYBE OVER EIGHT YEARS OR MAYBE BEYOND, IS IT -- DO THEY UNDERSTAND THAT MAYBE THE AMERICA THAT WAS 10, 15 YEARS AGO WHEN A SIBLING, A FRIEND, A PARENT FIRST CAME TO AMERICA, OKAY?

DO THEY COMPREHEND THAT IT IS A DID IT AMERICA?

>> I THINK THEY DO, BUT WHEN PEOPLE COME FROM OTHER COUNTRIES, THEY STILL SEE THAT THIS IS A COUNTRY WHERE IF THEY DO WORK HARD, THEY WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO MAKE A BETTER LIFE FOR THEMSELVES AND FOR THEIR CHILDREN.

SO IT'S STILL A COUNTRY OF OPPORTUNITY AND THEY'RE WILLING TO WORK HARD AND MANY OF THEM WILL WORK TWO OR THREE JOBS.

AND THAT'S REGARDLESS OF POTENTIALLY THE LEVEL OF EDUCATION THEY HAD IN THEIR HOME COUNTRY.

>> HOW MUCH OF A BARRIER IS THE LANGUAGE, BETSY?

AND HOW DO YOU, THROUGH THIS BOOK, HELP THOSE WHO ARE LOOKING FOR WORK?

HOW DO YOU HELP THEM NAVIGATE THE MANY LANGUAGE BARRIERS?

THAT'S PRETTY BASIC, ISN'T IT?

>> YES, IT IS, BUT MANY OF THE FOREIGN-BORN PEOPLE HAVE LIVED HERE A LONG TIME AND THEY DO SPEAK ENGLISH.

THERE ARE SCIENTISTS, OUR UNIVERSITY PEOPLE, OUR CORPORATE PEOPLE, OUR ENTREPRENEURS.

MANY OF OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS, THEY'VE LIVED HERE A LONG TIME AND THEY ARE STILL LOOKING TO POTENTIALLY DO BETTER FOR THEMSELVES IN THE AMERICAN JOB MARKET, AND THAT'S WHY HAVING A BOOK THAT EXPLAINS SOME OF THE INTERVIEW TECHNIQUES AND YOU HAVE ROOM TO NEGOTIATE IN THE AMERICAN JOB MARKET AND HOW DO YOU GET ALONG WITH AMERICAN COLLEAGUES, WHAT IS DIFFERENT ABOUT OUR WORKPLACE.

SO I GIVE VERY PRESCRIPTIVE TIPS ABOUT WHAT ARE THE KINDS OF TOPICS YOU NEED TO BOND WITH YOUR COLLEAGUES ON.

THOSE ARE THINGS THAT THEY JUST DON'T HEAR FROM ANYONE ELSE.

LANGUAGE, THOUGH, IS AN IMPORTANT ELEMENT.

WE DO KNOW THAT MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO COME HERE DO SPEAK ENGLISH.

SOME OF THE NEWEST PEOPLE AND PARTICULARLY REFUGEES, THEY DO NOT, AND THAT'S WHY THEY NEED VARIOUS LANGUAGE SERVICES SUCH AS THROUGH THE INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ST. LOUIS AND MANY OTHER COMMUNITY PARTNERS, THE LIBRARIES, THAT HAVE OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO PRACTICE AND GET THEIR ENGLISH BETTER.

THE BOOK IS DESIGNED FOR PEOPLE WHO SPEAK ENGLISH AND ARE GOING TO BE NAVIGATING THE AMERICAN JOB MARKET BY APPLYING ONLINE TO APPLICATIONS IN ENGLISH, GOING TO BE INTERVIEWING IN ENGLISH, BUT I'M GOING TO BE OPEN BECAUSE IF I FIND THAT I NEED TO HAVE IT TRANSLATED INTO OTHER LANGUAGES, I'LL CONSIDER THAT.

>> I THINK MOST AMERICANS, AND I'M NOT -- THAT NEIGHBOR A GROSS GENERALIZATI GENERALIZATION, BUT I THINK MOST AMERICANS ARE TALKING ABOUT A FOREIGN-BORN PERSON LOOKING FOR EMPLOYMENT, OKAY?

AND EVEN IF THEY HAD BEEN HERE A NUMBER OF YEARS.

THEY ARE ON THE LOWER END OF THE WAGE SCALE.

NOW, OKAY, MANY OF US KNOW THAT THAT IS NOT TRUE.

BUT AS AN ULTIMAs A RESULT OF THAT, DO YOU FIND THAT MANY OF THE PEOPLE THAT YOUR BOOK IS TRYING TO HELP AND THOSE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, FIND THEMSELVES UNDEREMPLOYED IN REGARD TO WHAT THEY DID IN THE COUNTRY OF THEIR BIRTH?

THAT THEY HAVE TO FIND THEMSELVES IN A LOWER POSITION FOR WHATEVER REASON?

>> YEAH, THE TERM THAT'S USED FOR THAT IS USED FOR THAT IS CALLED BRAIN WASTE.

THE YEARS OF TRAINING THEY'VE HAD, THE SKILLS, ARE SOMEWHAT WASTED BECAUSE IT'S HARD TO GET BACK TO THAT SKILL LEVEL IN THIS COUNTRY.

THEY HAVE FEDERAL CERTIFICATIONS, STATE REGULATIONS BY CAREER, SO AN INDIVIDUAL HAS TO DECIDE IF THEY'RE GOING TO START OVER, RETRAIN, GET BACK INTO THEIR FIELD AND THAT CAN TAKE A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY THAT FAMILY MAY NOT HAVE.

SO THEY GET TAKE JOBS UNDER THEIR SKILL LEVEL TO GET A START, BUT SOME OF THEM DO GO BACK AND TRAIN IN THEIR FIELD.

THEY MAY NOT GO AS HIGH AS THEY COULD HAVE GONE IN THEIR HOME COUNTRY, BUT THEY DO STAY IN THOSE FIELDS.

THAT'S SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE WORK IN THE WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT, THEY WANT TO SEE PEOPLE ADVANCE IN THEIR OWN CAREER.

>> BETSY, FORGIVE ME, BUT IF THEY HAVE PASSED THE MEDICAL BOARDS IN THEIR HOME COUNTRY, DO THEY HAVE TO AGAIN PASS THE MEDICAL BOARDS IN THIS COUNTRY?

>> THEY DO.

I MEAN, RESIDENCY HAS TO BE THROUGH AN APPROVED AMERICAN UNIVERSITY, SO WHEN THEY COME, THEY NEED TO GET RETRAINED AND THEN TRY AND ENTER INTO A RESIDENCY PROGRAM, WHICH IS VERY HARD BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T GRADUATED FROM ONE OF OUR UNIVERSITIES TO GET INTO THAT RESIDENCY PROGRAM.

BUT IT CAN HAPPEN.

IF SOMEONE IS YOUNG ENOUGH AND MOTIVATED ENOUGH AND CAN INVEST IN THEMSELVES, THERE ARE INSTANCES WHERE PEOPLE GO BACK TO DENTAL SCHOOL, GO BACK INTO A PHYSICIAN TRAINING PROGRAM, BUT IT'S VERY HARD.

IT'S MUCH MORE LIKELY THAT THEY'LL STAY IN THE MEDICAL-DENTAL FIELD, BUT MAYBE NOT AT THE SAME LEVEL THAT THEY HAD BEEN IN THEIR PRIOR LIVES.

>> THAT HAS TO BE HARD, OKAY?

THAT HAS TO BE HARD TO ACCEPT.

>> IT'S VERY HARD AND THAT'S WHY THE FIRST CHAPTER OF THE BOOK TALKS ABOUT THE STRESSES OF FOREIGN-BORN PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY'RE STRESSED WITH VISAS, FAMILY, MOVING, AND THEN DISTRESSED THAT THEIR CREDENTIALS AND THEIR EXPERIENCE MAY NOT BE VALUED.

IT MAY NOT BE APPRECIATED, AND IT MAY NOT BE CREDENTIALED FOR THEM TO DO IT.

SO IT'S VERY HARD TO THEM, AND I THINK THAT'S WHY PART WHATEVER WE DO AT THE ST. LOUISOSAIC PROJECT IS WE MAKE PROFESSIONAL CONNECTIONS FOR PEOPLE.

IN THE BOOK, I ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO JOIN A PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATION SO THAT THEY CAN BE WITH PEOPLE WHO SEE THEM WHO THEY REALLY ARE, THAT THEY CAN SEE THEMSELVES AS THEY SEE THEIR OWN SKILLS AND PROFESSION AND EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY NOT BE IN THAT FIELD YET, IF THEY CAN GO TO A MEETING THAT SHOWS THEY'RE A PROFESSIONAL, THEIR WHOLE SENSE OF SELF-ESTEEM AND THEIR ROLE IN THEIR FAMILY GOES UP BECAUSE THEY CAN SEE THEIR OWN VALUE.

>> FOLLOW-UP TO THAT BECAUSE I'M -- ALL RIGHT.

I WAS BORN IN 1960, STARTED MY CAREER 1983.

JUST BEING BORN HERE AND BEING A MINORITY, BEING A BLACK PERSON, THERE IS A KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU GO INTO, THAT YOU JUST UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO WORK THAT JUST AREN'T GOING TO LIKE YOU FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS AND THAT CAN'T STAND IN THE WAY OF YOU PROGRESSING AND DOING WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.

DO YOU ADDRESS THAT IN THE BOOK?

YOU KNOW, JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE, LIKE, LOOK, THIS IS A GREAT AMERICA, THIS IS NOT A PERFECT AMERICA, AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH SOME STUFF.

AND DO YOU KIND LAY THAT OUT IN YOUR BOOK?

>> WELL, WHAT I LAY OUT IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAT I SEEN IN MANY OF OUR FOREIGN-BORN PEOPLE, WHICH IS THAT THEY HAVE AN ATTITUDE OVERALL THAT THEY'RE GOING TO PUT THEIR HEAD DOWN AND WORK HARD.

AND THEN THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY DON'T GET PROMOTED OR NEW ASSIGNMENTS, SO THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW TO MAKE THOSE RELATIONSHIPS, MENTORS, CHAMPIONS, SPONSORS, THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE RULES OF THE GAME.

THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND, TO SAY THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU'RE A SPORTS FAN, WHICH I KNOW YOU ARE, THEY DON'T KNOW THAT THEY SHOULD BOND WITH YOU OVER SPORTS AND LEARN ABOUT WHICH SPORP YOU LIKE AND THEN TALK ABOUT THAT.

THEY PUT THEIR HEAD DOWN AND DO A GOOD JOB.

SO IT'S NOT SO MUCH THAT THEY THINK IT'S GOING TO BE PEOPLE THAT DO OR DON'T LIKE THEM, IT'S JUST THEY DO A GOOD JOB AND THEY NEED HELP IN UNDERSTANDING THE IMPORTANCE OF THOSE INTERPERSONAL SKILLS AND RELATIONSHIPS AND WHAT THAT DOES MEAN TO YOUR CAREER.

>> I WAS SURPRISED IN 2021 THAT MANY OF -- MANY OF THE POTENTIAL HIRES OR POTENTIALLY HIRED, HOPEFULLY, THAT THEY WONDER ABOUT AMERICANIZING THEIR NAME.

COULD YOU SPEAK TO THAT AND HOW YOU ADDRESS THAT WHEN THEY COME TO YOU WITH THESE QUESTIONS?

>> YEAH, THE IDEA OF WHETHER A NAME SHOULD BE AMERICANIZED IS SOMEWHAT CHALLENGING.

MANY OF THE INDIVIDUALS THAT WE TALK TO HAVE GREAT SKILLS, BUT THEIR NAME MAY BE VERY LONG.

IT MAY BE VERY HARD TO PRONOUNCE.

AND IT'S ALSO A SENSE OF PRIDE FOR THEM.

IT'S ABOUT THEIR CULTURE AND IT'S THEIR PRIDE, AND SO THEY WOULD LIKE US TO KNOW HOW TO SAY THEIR NAME AND TO SAY IT CORRECTLY.

AND TO BE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT AND IN A PERFECT WORLD, WE WOULD.

BUT WHAT I DO EXPLAIN IN THE BOOK THAT IS IF YOU'RE TRYING TO BE HIRED, YOU WANT TO DO THE BEST YOU CAN TO MAKE IT EASY FOR ME TO WALK INTO WENDY'S OFFICE AND WANT TO INTRODUCE YOU AND IF YOU CAN DO THAT BY EITHER HAVING A KNINICKNAME THAT YOU PUT IN PARENTHESES OR PUT YOUR PRONUNCIATION IN PARENTHESES SO I CAN SAY, OH, THAT'S HOW IT PRONOUNCED, SO I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, OR IF A RECRUITER CALLS YOU ON THE PHONE, THEY'RE COMFORTABLE SAYING YOUR NAME.

SO IT'S A TOPIC THAT HAS TO BE ADDRESSED AND THEN THE INDIVIDUAL HAS TO UNDERSTAND THAT IF THEY DO AMERICANIZE, HAVE A NICKNAME, HELP SOMEONE -- THEY'RE GOING TO DO BETTER AND THEY MAY WANT TO KEEP THEIR OWN NAME AND THEN THEY MAY WANT TO TEACH IT TO ME ONCE THEY BECOME MY COLLEAGUE.

UNTIL I SAY TO THEM, TELL ME HOW TO REALLY SAY IT AND LET ME PRACTICE IT.

IT'S HARD IF WE CAN'T SAY SOMEONE'S NAME, TO WANT TO INTRODUCE THEM AND FEEL COMFORTABLE.

>> PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE NUMBER OF FOLKS THAT ARE COMING TO ST. LOUIS AND COMING TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

THERE'S A BENEFIT TO THIS.

IT'S -- OBVIOUSLY, IT IS SO.

THROUGH YOUR BOOK, OKAY, DO YOU FIND YOURSELF ALSO TALKING TO EMPLOYERS, YOU KNOW, AND LETTING THEM KNOW THAT THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE ARE LETTING PEOPLE KNOW THAT ARE FOREIGN-BORN THAT ARE HERE AND MAYBE THEY'VE BEEN HERE A NUMBER OF YEARS OR JUST GOT HERE, BUT THESE ARE THE THINGS WE ARE INTRODUCING THEM TO.

PLEASE, YOU MIGHT WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS BOOK, TOO, SO YOU UNDERSTAND WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM.

>> YES, THE CHAPTER ABOUT THE WORKPLACE IS ADDRESSES DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION, AND HOW INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE LOOKING FOR JOIN A COMPANY, IF AN ORGANIZATION OR A COMPANY HAS EXPRESSED THAT THEY ARE CARING ABOUT DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION, BELONGING BASED ON WHAT THEY DO, IF THEY HAVE EMPLOYEE RESOURCE GROUPS, IF THEY HAVE MEMBERS OF THEIR LEADERSHIP TEAM AND THEIR BOARD THAT SHOW THAT, THAT THAT'S A POSITIVE.

THERE ARE MANY WAYS THAT COMPANIES CAN LEARN ABOUT THE BARRIERS THAT OUR FOREIGN-BORN APPLICANTS FACE AND THEY CAN LOWER THOSE BARRIERS AS THEY NOW ARE REALLY LOOKING HARD TO FILL THEIR JOBS.

>> WHEN IT COMES TO THE STIGMA, BETSY, WHEN SOME PEOPLE, CERTAINLY NOT ALL, WHEN THEY HEAR FOREIGN-BORN WORKERS TODAY, THEY MIGHT EVEN BE -- THEY MIGHT EVEN BE HEARING SOMEHOW ILLEGAL WORKERS.

HOW DO YOU -- THAT CAN BE INSURMOUNTABLE IN SOME PLACES, I'M SURE.

HOW DO YOU ADDRESS THAT?

>> THE BOOK FOCUSES ON PEOPLE WHO ARE WORK AUTHORIZED, THAT ARE HERE LEGALLY AND THAT PEOPLE AND EMPLOYERS ARE LOOKING TO HIRE LEGALLY.

BUT THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE THAT AREN'T YET WORK AUTHORIZED.

FOR EXAMPLE, AN INTERNATIONAL SPOUSE THAT MOVED HERE WITH A CORPORATE MOVE.

THE SPOUSE IS HERE LEGALLY, BUT THEY'RE NOT YET WORK AUTHORIZED BECAUSE OF OUR VISA PROCESS, BUT THEY MAY BE IN THE FUTURE.

SO WE ADDRESS THAT.

FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE UNDOCUMENTED, THAT IS REALLY DIFFERENT AND THEY'RE IN A VERY DIFFERENT PART OF THE ECONOMY AND THIS BOOK DOES NOT ADDRESS THAT SITUATION.

>> SO I JUST WANT TO -- ALL RIGHT.

I'M HIRED BY AN AMERICAN FIRM AND I'M IN AN EXECUTIVE POSITION, OKAY?

AND I'LL SAY I'M A WOMAN, OKAY?

AND MY HUSBAND IS WITH ME.

MY HUSBAND COULD NOT GET A JOB, COULD NOT BE HIRED BY THE COMPANY THAT I AM NOW AN EXECUTIVE AT?

>> YES.

THEY HAVE A WAITING PERIOD.

>> THAT SEEMS -- NOW, THAT JUST SEEMS CRAZY.

>> RIGHT.

WE HAVE A NUMBER OF VISA CATEGORIES WHERE THE SPOUSES CANNOT WORK AND THEN THERE'S SOME VISA CATEGORIES WHERE IT TAKES A WHILE FOR THEM TO GET THEIR EMPLOYMENT AUTHORIZATION, AND SO IN THAT WHOLE TIME THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO WORK AND THEY CAN'T EVEN VOLUNTEER IN CERTAIN KINDS OF WORK THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED POSSIBLE -- A JOB THAT SOMEBODY ELSE COULD BE TAKING.

SO THEY COULD VOLUNTEER, YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, WORKING IN AN ANIMAL SHELTER, BUT THEY CAN'T VOLUNTEER AT THE ST. LOUIS MOSAIC PROJECT HELPING US BILL OUR PROGRAMS.

THEY CAN'T VOLUNTEER AND DO THAT BECAUSE THAT WOULD INTERFERE WITH THEIR VISA THAT DOES NOT YET ALLOW THEM TO WORK.

THERE ARE MANY RESTRICTIONS.

>> HOW DOES THAT SIT WITH YOU?

THAT JUST SOUNDS LIKE, OKAY, THAT SOUNDS ROOT CAUSE THAT DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH BUSINESS, SOCIAL, ANYTHING.

>> RIGHT.

>> THAT SEEMS RESTRICTIVE.

>> PARTICULARLY WHEN WE HAVE SUCH LOW UNEMPLOYMENT RIGHT NOW, AND WE NEED WORKERS.

IT WOULD SEEM THAT WE WOULD HAVE A MORE OPEN ATTITUDE.

IF UNEMPLOYMENT IS LOW, YOU WOULD WANT TO HAVE MORE OF OUR FOREIGN-BORN TALENT ABLE TO WORK AND THE CONGRESS, IF WE HAD REALLY HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT, YOU COULD TAKE THAT DOWN, BUT THAT'S JUST NOT THE WAY THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM WORKS.

AND THERE ARE MANY RESTRICTIONS, SO THEY'RE BASICALLY THERE TO PROTECT AMERICAN JOBS.

>> YOU'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK WITH INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS.

HOW DO WE KEEP THOSE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HERE IN THE ST. LOUIS AREA?

DO YOU HAVE ANY ADVICE FOR EMPLOYERS WHO WANT TO -- WANT TO BE MORE ATTRACTIVE TO THESE YOUNG PEOPLE?

BECAUSE WE'D REALLY LIKE THEM TO STAY.

>> WE DO.

I MEAN, OUR REGION, BEFORE THE SLOWDOWN OF IMMIGRATION AND THE PANDEMIC, WE WOULD HAVE CLOSE TO 9,000 INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS IN THE REGION, AND THEN THAT REALLY CAME TO A HALT AND NOW WE'RE BACK ADDING MANY INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS AGAIN RIGHT NOW.

SO USUALLY 40 TO 50% OF THEM ARE IN STEM FIELDS, WHICH IS WHERE OUR REGION HAS OUR HIGHEST NEED FOR REALLY HIGHLY SKILLED PEOPLE.

SO IT'S A MATTER OF THE EDUCATION PROCESS OF OUR EMPLOYEES -- EMPLOYERS UNDERSTANDING THE PROCESS TO HIRE THIS TALENT AND ALSO TO GET THE STUDENTS IN FRONT OF THOSE EMPLOYERS.

>> SO ST. LOUIS, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT NEW YORK CITY, WE'RE NOT CHICAGO, BUT IT SEEMS WE DO HAVE A -- NOT LARGE AMOUNT, MAYBE FAIR AMOUNT, OF FOREIGN-BORN INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE HERE, YOU KNOW, WITH THE SITUATION IN AFGHANISTAN, EARTHQUAKE IN HAITI, IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE VERY RESPONSIVE AND THERE'S AN IMMEDIATE CALL THAT, HEY, IF PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO LIVE, ST. LOUIS COULD BE THAT PLACE FOR YOU.

SO IT DOES SEEM LIKE WE DO SOME OUTREACH.

>> WE DO, AND AGAIN, THE GOAL OF THE ST. LOUIS MOSAIC PROJECT HAS BEEN TO ATTRACT AND RETAIN FOREIGN-BORN PEOPLE AND SEVERAL YEARS AGO, WE WERE IN THE TOP TWO BEING THE FASTEST GROWING FOR FOREIGN-BORN BEFORE WE HAD THIS RECENT SLOWDOWN WHICH REALLY, YOU KNOW, HURT OUR ATTRACTION FOR INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS AND REFUGEES.

WE SEE THAT PICKING UP AGAIN.

WE'VE BEEN A VERY WELCOMING REGION AND WE HAVE A LOT OF RESOURCES.

WE HAVE COLLABORATION OF OUR DIFFERENT AGENCIES, OUR EDUCATIONAL COMMUNITY, OUR MAJOR EMPLOYERS.

WE HAD A LOT OF COLLABORATION WHERE WE CAN BRING THAT TOGETHER TO BE WELCOMING BOTH ON THE LIG AND THE WORKING FOR THESE NEWCOMERS THAT WE WELCOME.

>> THE BOOK IS "WELCOME TO THE USA, YOU'RE HIRED."

THE AUTHOR, BETSY COHEN, IS OUR GUEST OF THE ST. LOUIS MOSAIC PROJECT.

WHAT HAS BEEN THE -- IS THERE A PART OF THIS PROCESS, BETSY, THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT PROVES TO BE MORE DAUNTING THAN ALL OF THE OTHER HURDLES FOR PEOPLE?

I MEAN, DO YOU -- OBVIOUSLY THE BOOK IS A COMPREHENSIVE LOOK AT ALL OF THIS, BUT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE WATCHING RIGHT NOW WHO HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO READ THE BOOK, WHAT'S THE BIGGEST HURDLE FOR THE PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYEE?

>> I THINK THE EMPLOYEE, AND THERE IS A LOT OF ADVICE FROM BOTH MYSELF AND FROM 12 DIFFERENT EXPERT CONTRIBUTORS FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY TO GIVE ADVICE, IS TO UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF THE PERSONAL CONNECTIONS WITH THOSE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO MEET AND HOW NETWORKING IS REALLY IMPORTANT, RELATIONSHIP BUILDING, AND THE MORE YOU BUILD THOSE RELATIONSHIPS IN THE COMMUNITY BEYOND YOUR OWN SMALLER ETHNIC GROUP, YOU'LL HAVE MORE OPPORTUNITIES TO HEAR ABOUT BOTH THE POSTED AND THE UNPOSTED HIDDEN JOB MARKETS THAT ARE OUT THERE.

AND SO A LOT OF ATTENTION IS SPENT ON HOW DO YOU MAKE THOSE FRIENDSHIPS, HOW DO YOU USE LINKED-IN, HOW DO YOU BROADEN YOUR SCOPE?

AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GOOD FOR ALL OF US.

AS WE ALL KNOW, IF WE'RE LOOKING FOR A JOB AND WE WANT TO SUCCEED, IT OFTEN COMES FROM THE PEOPLE YOU MEET, YOU KNOW, THROUGH SPORTING EVENTS, THROUGH YOUR KID'S SCHOOL, THROUGH YOUR FAITH-BASED COMMUNITY.

THAT'S WHERE YOU HEAR OF THINGS, SO PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT RELATIONSHIPS ARE REALLY VALUABLE AND YOU GAIN FROM THEM AND YOU LEARN FROM THEM AND THEY CONTRIBUTE TO YOUR SUCCESS PERSONALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, HOW AMERICANS FOUND A JOB 20 YEARS AGO IS DEFINITELY DIFFERENT THAN HOW AMERICANS FIND A JOB TODAY, SO I GUESS YOU'VE EXPERIENCED THAT KIND OF ON -- ON BOTH ENDS.

>> WELL, I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF ATTENTION ABOUT THE ONLINE APPLICATION PROCESS.

IT'S VERY DAUNTING.

FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T ENTER A ZIP CODE, IT MAY NOT GO THROUGH AND IF YOU'RE FOREIGN-BORN, MAYBE YOU DON'T HAVE A ZIP CODE BECAUSE YOUR WORK EXPERIENCE WAS NOT HERE OR YOUR UNIVERSITY MAY NOT BE ON IT.

BUT PHONE CALLS, REFERENCES MATTER TODAY.

AN EMPLOYER CALLED ME AND SAID THEY WERE HAVING A JOB THEY WERE TRYING TO FILL AND IT TURNS OUT ONE OF THE FOREIGN-BORN WOMEN I KNOW, I THOUGHT WOULD BE A GOOD IF IT.

AND WE SENT HER RESUME AND THEY ALREADY TALKED TO HER.

THEY'RE LOOKING FOR REALLY GOOD PEOPLE AND THEY ALREADY HAD A CONVERSATION AND THAT HAPPENED TODAY.

>> AFTER THEY ARE HIRED, WHAT IS, IN TERMS OF THE MOSAIC PROJECT, WHAT IS THE FOLLOW-UP OR THE FOLLOW-THROUGH?

WHAT IS THAT PROCESS LIKE WITH THE NEWLY EMPLOYED?

>> WELL, A NUMBER OF THE PROGRAMS FOR THE ST. LOUIS MOSAIC PROJECT INVOLVE INTERNATIONAL WOMEN THAT STAY CONNECTED TO EACH OTHER.

WE HAVE AN INTERNATIONAL MENTORING PROGRAM WHERE NEWCOMERS ARE MENTORED BY THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE FOR A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME AND SOME OF THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN HERE A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME ARE FOREIGN-BORN WOMEN THAT NOW WANT TO GIVE BACK TO OTHERS IN YOU ARE PROFESSIONAL CONNECTOR PROGRAM.

SO WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THEIR JOBS AND MAY BE NATIVE-BORN OR FOREIGN-BORN AND THEY BECOME CONNECTORS FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

>> I KNOW YOU HAVE MANY SUCCESS STORIES AND WHAT DO THEY TELL YOU?

YOU KNOW, THROUGH MOSAIC, LIKE, YOU KNOW, BOY, THE ONE THING THAT STUCK WITH ME WAS.

AND THERE'S PROBABLY 20, YOU KNOW, AND ABOUT NETWORKING AND ALL THAT.

BUT IS THIS ONE THAT KIND OF STANDS OUT WHERE THEY BASICALLY SAY I LEARNED THIS HERE AND THIS IS HOW IT HELPED ME?

>> I THINK THEY LEARNED TO HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THEMSELVES BECAUSE WE GIVE THEM THAT CONFIDENCE.

OUR TEAM AND THEN THE CONNECTIONS THROUGH THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, THE CONNECTIONS THROUGH ALL OF OUR PARTNERS IN THIS COMMUNITY AND SOMETIMES EVEN NATIONWIDE, WE SEE THEM AS A REAL PERSON WHO HAS VALUE AND WE WORK WITH THEM TO BRING THAT VALUE TO THE FRONT.

AND THEY ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT WE GET IT, THAT THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO USE ALL THEIR SKILLS RIGHT NOW, BUT THEY STILL HAVE THAT DIGNITY OF WORK AND THAT THEY WILL ADVANCE IF THEY DO A GOOD JOB.

THAT'S TRUE WITH THE WORKFORCE TEAM AT THE INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE.

IT'S TRUE OF THE EMPLOYERS WE WORK WITH.

IT'S TRUE OF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WE MAKE THESE PROFESSIONAL CONNECTIONS FOR, IS THAT THEY FEEL VALUED AND THEY FEEL SEEN AS A PERSON.

>> DO YOU EVER COME ACROSS THE EMPLOYER, BETSY COHEN, WHO IS RELUCTANT FOR WHATEVER REASON?

WHAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO YOU USE TO CHANGE MINDS AND TO CHANGE HEARTS?

>> WELL, THERE ARE BARRIERS.

I MEAN, IF SOMEONE'S ENGLISH IS NOT PERFECT, IT'S EASY TO DISMISS THEM AND THINK THEY'RE NOT SO SMART, YOU KNOW.

SO YOU HAVE TO EDUCATE AND REALLY HELP EMPLOYERS UNDERSTAND THAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR TALENT, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR POTENTIAL, AND NOT JUST NECESSARILY IF THERE'S ONE TYPO IN SOMETHING THAT THAT PERSON WROTE.

BUT I THINK RIGHT NOW IS A VERY GOOD TIME FOR OUR FOREIGN-BORN COMMUNITY BECAUSE OUR EMPLOYERS REALLY NEED PEOPLE, SO WHEN THERE'S SUCH A NEED FOR HIRING EVERYWHERE YOU GO, THERE'S SIGNS "HELP WANTED," WHETHER IT'S A RETAIL STORE, SERVICE INDUSTRY, HOSPITALITY, OUR MAJOR CORPORATIONS, THEY ALL ARE LOOKING FOR TALENT.

AND SO REALLY, THIS IS A VERY GOOD TIME FOR OUR FOREIGN-BORN PEOPLE TO BRING THAT TALENT TO THE FRONT.

>> DO YOU FIND THAT THERE'S SOME LINES OF WORK THAT, YOU KNOW, FOREIGN-BORN PEOPLE LOOKING FOR A JOB JUST WANT TO AVOID?

DO YOU GET A SENSE THAT THEY DO NOT WANT TO BE IN, LIKE, GOVERNMENTAL WORK IN THE UNITED STATES OR DON'T WANT TO BE IN LAW ENFORCEMENT OR SOME THINGS THAT LIKE -- EVEN I'M CLEARED TO WORK, I COULD DO THIS JOB, BUT I JUST -- I'M NOT COMFORTABLE THERE?

>> I HAVEN'T HEARD IT THAT WAY.

>> OKAY.

>> I THINK IT'S A MATTER OF REALLY WHAT THEIR SKILL SETS ARE AND THEN HOW DO WE EITHER HELP THEM BRING THAT SKILL SET INTO WHAT WOULD BE THAT PARALLEL JOB IN OUR ECONOMY OR HOW DO WE HELP THEM TRANSLATE TO SOMETHING THAT IS IN OUR ECONOMY.

WITH THE AFGHAN PEOPLE COMING, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THEY WERE A TRANSLATOR AND HAD GOOD COMMUNICATION SKILLS, MAYBE THEY'LL DO TRANSLATION WORK, BUT MAYBE THAT WILL RELATE TO BEING A CUSTOMER SERVICE REPRESENTATIVE, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH ALL OF OUR CALL CENTERS WHO ARE TRYING TO HIRE PEOPLE.

SOME OF THAT WORK IS HOW DO YOU HELP THEM UNDERSTAND THAT THEIR SKILLS CAN BE TRANSFERRED TO WHERE WE HAVE OPPORTUNITY.

>> THAT WAS -- MAYBE THAT WAS THE INNER ME CHANNELING ITSELF OUT ABOUT NOT WANTING TO DO THOSE JOBS.

>> YEAH, YEAH.

>> AND BETSY, IN CLOSING BECAUSE WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE OR SO LEFT, WE CAN'T LOOK AT FOREIGN-BORN WORKERS AS COMPETITION BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT COMPETITION.

THEY ARE POTENTIAL LIFELONG NEIGHBORS AND FRIENDS.

WHAT DO YOU TELL PEOPLE WHO THINK, YOU KNOW, OR WHO TELL YOU THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING FOR JOBS HERE IN SPECIFIC AREAS WHO CAN'T FIND THE WORK?

>> WELL, FOREIGN-BORN PEOPLE START JOBS AT A HIGHER RATE THAN OUR OWN NATIVE BORN BECAUSE THEY OFTEN CAN'T DO THE JOB THEY CAME FROM IN THE PAST, SO THEY START JOBS, THEY HIRE THE REST OF US, THEY CONTRIBUTE TO THAT NEIGHBORHOOD VITALITY, THEY KEEP HAVING THEIR STUDENTS COMES TO OUR SCHOOLS SO WE CAN KEEP OUR SCHOOLS OPEN AND NOT BE SHUTTING.

WE KNOW OUR STAGNATING POPULATION IS AN ISSUE FOR OUR REGION AND THIS IS GOING TO ALLOW US TO HAVE SOME GROWTH OF OUR POPULATION AND OUR ECONOMY.

AND WHEN THEY COME INTO THE WORKFORCE, WE HAVE SO MANY OPENINGS RIGHT NOW AT ALL SKILL LEVELS THAT, WE REALLY -- I THINK WE SEE THAT THIS IS ADDITIVE AND IT'S NOT TAKING AWAY.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO MAKE ST. LOUIS BETTER FOR ALL OF US.

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT.

BETSY COHEN, THE FOUNDING EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ST. LOUIS MOSAIC PROJECT.

THE BOOK LAUNCHED TOMORROW FOR CITIZENSHIP DAY, "WELCOME TO THE USA, YOU'RE HIRED."

HOLD IT UP AGAIN, BETSY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING OUR GUEST.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I LEARNED SO MUCH TONIGHT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THANK YOU.

GOOD NIGHT, EVERYBODY.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.