>> I'M MARC ROTTERMAN AND THIS IS FRONT ROW.

COMING UP, PRESIDENT BIDEN MANDATES THE COVID-19 VACCINE FOR MILLIONS OF AMERICANS, DEMOCRATS IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY PUSH FOR EXPANDED UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS, AND THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT CASE HEADS TO NORTH CAROLINA SUPREME COURT, NEXT.

A COMPLETE LIST OF FUNDERS CAN BE FOUND AT: >> WELCOME BACK.

JOINING THE CONVERSATION, MITCH KOKAI WITH THE JOHN LOCKE FOUNDATION, MRGAN JACKSON, CHIEF POLITICAL STRATEGIST FOR GOVERNOR ROY COOPER, JONAH KAPLAN WITH ABC NEWS, 11, AND JAY CHAUDHRY THE DEMOCRATIC WHIP IN THE SENATE.

JONAH, LET'S BEGIN WITH THE PRESIDENT'S VACCINE MANDATE.

>> WELL, THIS GETS TO THE HEART OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND GOVERNMENT AND WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COMPELLING AND CONVINCING AND WHERE DOES THE LINE BASICALLY ESTABLISH ITSELF BETWEEN DOING SOMETHING FOR THE PUBLIC GOOD VERSUS A PERSONAL LIBERTY.

AND WITH THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE IS BASICALLY SAY, 'LOOK WE'VE GIVEN 'YOU ALL THIS TIME WE'RE GIVING YOU ALL THE DATA TO CONVINCE 'YOU TO GET A VACCINE.'

A LARGE PORTION OF AMERICA IS STILL UNVACCINATED AT THIS POINT, THEY KIND OF KNOW WHAT THE DATA IS OUT THERE AND THEY'RE REFUSING TO DO IT.

BIDEN ADMINISTRATION SAYING FOR THE GOOD OF THE PUBLIC WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO WORK WHETHER THEY'RE POTENTIALLY GOING TO TRAVEL, BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS SAYING THAT IF YOU ARE WORKING FOR A COMPANY THAT HAS MORE THAN 100 EMPLOYEES, YOU MUST REQUIRE VACCINATIONS.

YOU MUST HAVE A COVID-19 VACCINE.

THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF AS THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE THE COUNTRY.

HE MANAGES IN THE COURSE OF THE ADMINISTRATION SOME 8 MILLION EMPLOYEES.

THAT'S HIS OWN DEPARTMENT.

SO I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTION OF WHETHER HE CAN MANDATE OR REQUIRE A VACCINE FOR THOSE EMPLOYEES.

THE QUESTION IS: DOES THE GOVERNMENT HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE ABLE TO BASICALLY TAP INTO PRIVATE BUSINESS AFFAIRS AND THERE'S 2 REALLY SUPREME COURT PRECEDENTS THAT PLAY INTO THIS.

ONE IS JACOBSON VERSUS MASSACHUSETTS, BEGINNING OF THE 20TH CENTURY, WHERE BASICALLY THE SUPREME COURT RULED THAT GENERAL LIBERTY OF THE PEOPLE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE PERSONAL LIBERTY OF ONE PERSON BECAUSE IN THIS CASE THE TOWN CAN DO IT.

BUT THE SECOND CASE IS SAYING IF IT'S A THERAPEUTIC, EVEN IF IT'S TO SAVE YOUR LIFE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO - YOU CAN'T BE COMPELLED TO TAKE THAT.

SO VERY INTERESTING THINGS HERE AND I'M NOT -- THIS IS NOT THE FIRST CHALLENGE CERTAINLY WON'T BE THE LAST.

>> MITCH, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR.

>> YES, CERTAINLY I THINK THERE'S THE DEBATE ABOUT THE VACCINE AND WHETHER IT'S NEEDED AND HOW HELPFUL IT IS, THAT YOU SHOULD SET ASIDE WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE MANDATE BECAUSE THE FIRST QUESTION IS IS THIS SOMETHING THAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IS ALLOWED TO DO IS >> IT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING IT'S COMPLETELY UNCONSTITUTIONAL UNDER VARIOUS ISSUES, THE SEPARATION OF POWERS, IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COULD DO SHOULD BE THE PRESIDENT OR CONGRESS SHOULD IT BE A LAW, RATHER THAN SOMETHING JUST DICTATED BY ONE INDIVIDUAL.

THERE ARE ALSO QUESTIONS ABOUT THE 5TH AMENDMENT, THE 10TH AMENDMENT WHETHER THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IF IT'S GOING TO BE DONE SHOULD BE DONE AT THE STATE LEVEL.

I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS, IF THIS ACTUALLY GOES FORWARD, THERE'S ALSO THE WHOLE THING ABOUT HOW YOU WOULD ENFORCE THIS.

THE PRESIDENT HAS GONE TO OSHA, >> AND OSHA IS UNDERMANNED, CORRECT?

>> RIGHT OSHA'S UNDERMANNED BUT THE PRESIDENT SAID COME UP WITH THIS EMERGENCY RULE OSHA.

WELL HOW WOULD THEY ACTUALLY ENFORCE IT?

THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS SURROUNDING THAT.

>> MORGAN DOES THE GOVERNOR FAVOR A A MANDATE?

>> LISTEN THE GOVERNOR'S ALREADY PUT A -- IT'S NOT SO MUCH A MANDATE IN PLACE AS FAR AS VACCINATIONS BUT ON STATE EMPLOYEES AT THE END OF THIS MONTH.

THEIR 2 CHOICES EITHER GET THE VACCINE OR GET TESTED WEEKLY.

AND THAT'S GOING INTO EFFECT IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS.

LISTEN, I THINK THE REAL THING AROUND PUBLIC POLICY AROUND THIS MARKET, YOU'RE SEE POLLS IS ABOUT 2 THIRDS OF AMERICANS SUPPORT MANDATES, AND WHAT IS AT THE HEART OF THAT IS YOU'VE GOT ABOUT 2 THIRDS OF AMERICANS THAT ARE VACCINATED OR 60 PLUS PERCENT OF THEM.

AND I THINK YOU'RE STARTING TO SEE THE FRUSTRATION OF THOSE THAT ARE VACCINATED WHO WANT TO GET BACK TO NORMAL LIFE MEANING NO MASK, ALL THESE RESTRICTIONS, AND THEY SEE THE IMPEDIMENT TO GETTING BACK TO NORMAL TO THE FOLKS THAT ARE NOT VACCINATED.

THAT'S WHY THE DELTA VARIANT HAS TAKEN OFF, THAT'S WHY THESE OTHER BIG CONCERN WE'VE GOT TO GET IT DONE.

>> JAY JUMP IN HERE.

LET ME ASK YOU WHAT'S THE IMPACT ON BUSINESSES THAT HAVE 100 YOU KNOW THAT YOUR EMPLOYEES DON'T WANT TO DO IT?

WELL, I MEAN I THINK A LOT OF BUSINESSES SIMILAR TO MORGAN TALKED ABOUT ARE GOING TO BE THE BEGINNING OF THE OFFER THE VACCINE, TAKE THE VACCINE OR GET TESTED, I MEAN IN SOME INSTANCES I THINK WE'RE SEEING BUSINESSES DECIDE THAT EMPLOYEES CAN'T COME BACK.

>> 24 ATTORNEYS GENERALS ARE GOING TO CHALLENGE THIS AT THE SUPREME COURT LEVEL I THINK.

I MEAN THERE'S A LEGAL QUESTION ABOUT OSHA, BUT I THINK THE BROADER POINT TO KEEP IN MIND, THE COURTS WILL DECIDE THAT, IS THAT I THINK THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY IS BEHIND THIS AND I THINK THE QUESTIONS ABOUT ITS NOMINATIONS COMMUNITY BUT TYSON FOODS FOR EXAMPLE, SEEN THAT THEIR THEIR VACCINATION RATES HAVE GONE UP FROM 40% TO 70%.

SO WE KNOW THAT'S WORKED AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT IF YOU WANT TO KEEP OUR KIDS IN SCHOOL WANT THE ECONOMY TO KEEP GOING, WE'VE GOT TO GET THE VACCINE, >> WE'VE GOT TO MOVE.

COMING RIGHT BACK TO YOU LET'S TALK ABOUT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY'S WEEK.

>> YES, SO IT'S BEEN A RELATIVELY SLOW WEEK AT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY SINCE REPUBLICAN LEADERS HAVE BEEN BEHIND CLOSED DOORS NEGOTIATING THE BUDGET.

BUT SENATOR WILEY NICKEL OF WAKE COUNTY THIS WEEK HELD A PRESS CONFERENCE URGING REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES TO PASS LEGISLATION TO RAISE STATE BENEFITS TO $500 A WEEK FOR 26 WEEKS.

HE ARGUED THAT THIS PLAN - WE CAN IMPLEMENT THIS PLAN BECAUSE WE HAVE 2.8 MILLION DOLLARS OR A MILLION DOLLARS IN THE TRUST FUND.

REPUBLICAN LEADERS HAVE REJECTED THIS IDEA SINCE 2013 WHEN THEY CUT BACK BENEFITS TO $350 A WEEK FOR 13 WEEKS.

WE'RE SECOND WORST BENEFIT SYSTEM IN THE COUNTRY.

REPUBLICANS HAVE SAID THAT THEY HAVE DONE SO BECAUSE IT WAS A WAY FOR US TO ACTUALLY BUILD A HEALTHY TRUST FUND.

I THINK WHAT'S MORE INTERESTING IN THE DEBATE IS THAT REPUBLICANS HAVE SAID THAT THE ADDITIONAL FEDERAL BENEFITS THAT ACTUALLY EXPIRED ACTUALLY CREATED A DISINCENTIVE FOR DISPLACED WORKERS TO COME BACK INTO THE WORKFORCE.

THE DEMOCRATS HAVE COUNTERED TO SAY THAT THERE'S NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THAT.

BUT IN FACT IF WE HAD MORE CHILD CARE AND WE HAD MORE HEALTH CARE ACCESS, WE WOULD SEE MORE FOLKS COMING BACK TO WORK.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE GOVERNOR HAD SEVERAL VETOES, ONE WAS ON CURRICULUM AND TRANSPARENCY AND PUTTING THE CURRICULUM ONLINE.

>> YEAH, THE MAIN 2 VETOES THAT WE SAW MOST RECENTLY WITH A ONE ON THE ANTI SCHOOL INDOCTRINATION BILL THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE TIED TO CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND THE DEBATES ABOUT THAT.

ANOTHER ONE WAS AGAINST THE RIOTING THAT THEY WERE GOING TO BE NEW PENALTIES FOR PEOPLE INVOLVED IN RIOTS THAT STEM OUT OF THE OTHERWISE PEACEFUL PROTEST.

I THINK IN BOTH OF THOSE CASES YOU SAW THEY WERE PARTY LINE VOTES THAT REPUBLICANS LIKE THE LEGISLATION, DEMOCRATS DIDN'T, SO I DON'T THINK IN EITHER ONE OF THESE CASES IS THERE A LIKELIHOOD THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE AN OVERRIDE OF THE GOVERNOR'S VETOES.

>> MORGAN.

>> I AGREE.

I THINK THOUGH THOSE ARE ARE GOING TO STAND.

I THINK UNEMPLOYMENT ISSUE AS JAY TALKED ABOUT A LOT OF THE SORT OF MESSAGING OUT THERE ABOUT HOW THIS IS BAD FOR THE ECONOMY, IT'S BEEN DEBUNKED IT'S ACTUALLY SO IT'S VERY GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY.

YOU KNOW ANOTHER ISSUE THAT IS COMING UP AND IT IS NOT GETTING ATTRACTION WITH REPUBLICANS SIMPLY IS RAISING MINIMUM WAGE.

RIGHT NOW NOT ONLY IS UNEMPLOYMENT THE PALTRY, THE SECOND WORST IN THE NATION, WHICH IS REALLY A CHALLENGE FOR FAMILIES IN CRISIS.

YOU LOOK AT THE STATES BY THE WAY WE TALK ABOUT THE STATES THAT REFUSE THE FEDERAL EMPLOYMENT, TOOK 2 BILLION DOLLARS OUT OF THEIR ECONOMY.

>> YOU TAKE THE KEYNESIAN POINT OF VIEW THAT YOU PRINT MORE MONEY PUT MORE MONEY IN PEOPLE'S POCKET FROM THE GOVERNMENT, IT HELPS THE ECONOMY?

>> I THINK IT CLEARLY HAS.

I THINK THE STUDIES SHOW THAT IT HAS.

AND LISTEN, I THINK THERE'S AN EXPIRATION OF ALL THESE AT THE RIGHT TIME.

BUT WHILE WE'RE STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF COVID WHEN YOU HAVE HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT.

YES, FOLKS WHETHER IT BE BECAUSE THEIR KIDS ARE NOT BACK IN SCHOOL OR THEIR KIDS ARE ON QUARANTINE OR WHY WE'RE STILL DEALING WITH COVID, WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO TO PROP UP THE ECONOMY AND IT'S WORKING.

LOOK AT NORTH CAROLINA WHO KEPT THEIR BENEFITS IN PLACE WE HAVE THE 3RD HIGHEST NEW JOB CREATION OF ANY STATE IN THE NATION.

AND WE KEPT OUR UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS.

>> YOU'RE ON POINT.

GO AHEAD JONAH.

>> I GIVE THE REPUBLICANS CREDIT BECAUSE THEY SPENT A LOT OF TIME CRAFTING THESE BILLS, KNOWING THEY'RE PROBABLY GOING TO GET VETOED, BUT I DON'T THINK THEY'RE PUT TOGETHER TO KIND OF MAKE LAW BUT ALMOST A KIND OF BOX IN THE GOVERNOR KNOWING THAT HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE ON THE DEFENSIVE.

HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO NOW DEFEND -- >> [MARC] THEY'RE PUTTING TOGETHER CAMPAIGN ISSUES.

>> WHICH IS - LOOK I MEAN ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES AND ELECTIONS ALSO DETERMINE THINGS AND SPEAKING OF ELECTIONS, ALSO HAPPENING THIS WEEK ARE A LOT OF PUBLIC MEETINGS ABOUT REDISTRICTING AND OF COURSE WHICH IS EVERY 2 YEARS, VOTERS GET TO PICK WHO REPRESENTS THEM, EVERY 10 YEARS, THE REPRESENTATIVES GET TO PICK KIND OF WHO THEIR VOTERS ARE, AND RIGHT NOW THEY'RE PUBLIC MEETINGS WHICH ARE IMPORTANT AND REPUBLICANS ARE VOWING THAT REDISTRICTING IS NOT GOING TO USE ANY RACIAL DATA ANY VOTER DATA ANY ELECTION DATA SO THEY'RE PROMISING A TRANSPARENT PROCESS, THE PUBLIC MEETINGS WEREN'T VIRTUAL.

YOU HAVE THIS INTERESTING DICHOTOMY AND OF COURSE YOU HAVE THE PERCEPTION OF THE PROBLEMS OF THE PAST THAT REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO WIN OVER.

>> OK I WANT TO MOVE ON AND TALK ABOUT THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT CASES HEAD TO THE NORTH CAROLINA SUPREME COURT.

>> BACK IN 2018 MARC, VOTERS IN NORTH CAROLINA APPROVED FOUR CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS FOR OUR STATE CONSTITUTION.

THE N DOUBLE ACP DIDN'T LIKE 2 OF THEM.

ONE WOULD LOWER THE EXISTING CONSTITUTIONAL CAP ON STATE INCOME TAX RATES, THE OTHER WOULD PUT VOTER ID INTO THE CONSTITUTION.

THEIR ARGUMENT IN FRONT OF A TRIAL COURT WAS THAT THE GERRYMANDERED GENERAL ASSEMBLY WAS SO GERRYMANDERED THAT THE LEGISLATURE DIDN'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO PUT THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS ON THE BALLOT, A TRIAL COURT JUDGE IN WAKE COUNTY SAID, 'OKAY, I'LL BUY THAT ARGUMENT.'

BUT THE COURT OF APPEALS REVERSED THAT RULING, SO AS IT STANDS THEY CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT WOULD STAND, BUT THE APPEAL FROM THE NAACP GOES TO THE SUPREME COURT WHICH WE KNOW HAS 4 DEMOCRATS AND 3 REPUBLICAN JUSTICES BUT THE NAACP DOESN'T REALLY LIKE THOSE ODDS THAT WELL SO THEY WANT TO GET THE 2 NEWEST JUSTICES BOTH REPUBLICANS REMOVE FROM HEARING THE CASE -- >> WHAT'S THE RATIONALE FOR THAT?

>> THE RATIONALE BEING JUSTICE TAMARA BERENGER WAS A STATE SENATOR AT THE TIME THAT ALL OF THIS HAPPENED WITH THE VOTE AND THAT THE OTHER PHIL BERGER JUNIOR IS THE SON OF THE SENATE LEADER AND THUS HAS TOO CLOSE OF TIES.

THE ARGUMENT FROM THE OTHER SIDE IN COMBATING THIS IS WELL WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO GET RID OF JUSTICE ANITA EARLS WHO ACTUALLY REPRESENTED THE N DOUBLE ACP IN PREVIOUS CASES?

>> MORGAN DOES THIS CASE HAVE MERIT?

>> CERTAINLY A TRIAL COURT JUDGE FELT THAT IT DID, AND A COURT OF APPEALS LED BY REPUBLICANS DISAGREED.

AND I THINK THIS IS AS MITCH SAID WILL GO TO THE SUPREME COURT.

I THINK THE BIG QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THESE JUSTICES SHOULD RECUSE THEIR SELF.

IT'S JUST COMMON SENSE.

YOU CAN'T RULE ON A CASE WHERE YOUR FATHER IS A NAMED DEFENDANT, THAT'S JUST PLAIN COMMON SENSE.

>> IN MOST CASES WOULDN'T BURGER BE A NAMED DEFENDANT?

WELL THAT'S -- BEING IN THE LEGISLATURE?

THAT'S NOT A GOOD DEFENSE.

YOU SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT BEFORE YOU RAN FOR THE OFFICE.

IF IF MY FATHER WAS A NAMED DEFENDANT, HAVE TO RECUSE MYSELF.

THAT'S PRETTY EASY AND AS FAR AS BERRINGER, THE FACT THAT SHE WAS ONE OF THE FOLKS THAT LED THE EFFORT TO PASS THESE LAWS AND THESE AMENDMENTS AND NOW SHE GETS A TERM WHETHER CONSTITUTIONAL, I MEAN COME ON THAT'S COMMON SENSE GUYS.

>> JAY.

>> WELL, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT AS WE'VE GOT A NORTH CAROLINA CODE OF JUDICIAL CONDUCT WHICH IS THE GOVERNING DOCUMENT DETERMINING WHETHER JUSTICES SHOULD RECUSE THEMSELVES AND THE DOCUMENT IS VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT THE FACT THAT IF YOU'VE GOT FAMILY MEMBERS YOU SHOULD RECUSE YOURSELF.

IN THIS INSTANCE AS MORGAN POINTED OUT THAT JUST AS BERGERS FATHER IS PHIL BERGER LEADER OF THE SENATE IS BEING SUED, >> HISTORICALLY HAS IT EVER BEEN DONE BEFORE?

>> WELL WE WE KNOW THAT JUSTICE BERGER WHEN HE WAS ON THE APPELLATE COURT ACTUALLY RECUSED HIMSELF A SIMILAR LITIGATION THAT WE DID THAT -- >> BUT NOT AT THE SUPREME COURT LEVEL >> NOT AT THE SUPREME COURT LEVEL TO MY KNOWLEDGE, BUT ONE THING THAT I WILL SAY I MEAN THIS IS THIS IS INTERESTING TO POINT OUT, TO ME IT'S ULTIMATELY AN UNSETTLED LEGAL QUESTION.

WE COULD HAVE THE JUSTICES JUST MEET BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND RESOLVE THE ISSUE AND THEY'LL WEIGH IN AND THERE MAY BE NO EXPLANATION FOR RECUSING THEMSELVES.

>> JONAH, PUT THIS IN CONTEXT MY FRIEND, >> I THINK IT'S REGRETTABLE THAT AT THE STATE LEVEL AND AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, I MEAN THE SUPREME COURTS ARE INCREASINGLY UNDER PRESSURE OF BEING POLITICIZED.

AND WHETHER YOU THINK IT'S RIGHT YOU THINK IT'S WRONG THEY SHOULD RECUSE THEMSELVES, THEY SHOULDN'T, THE PERCEPTION AMONG MANY VOTERS IS THEY TRY TO FIND THE DECISION AND THEN OR THAT THEY HAVE A DECISION IN MIND AND THEN TRY TO RATIONALIZE WHATEVER RULING THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE AND LOOK ON THE SUPREME COURT LEVEL IN WASHINGTON, YOU HAVE CLARENCE THOMAS YOU AMY CONEY BARRETT YOU NOW HAVE STEVEN BRIER ALL COMING AND SAYING WE WORRY ABOUT THE LEGITIMACY OF THE COURT IN THE PUBLIC'S EYES.

AND THAT APPLIES TO THE STATE COURT TOO ESPECIALLY WHEN FOR THE STATE SUPREME COURT.

THEY DON'T RULE WHETHER OR NOT YOU KNOW THEY DON'T RULE ON THINGS LIKE THE SUPREME COURT.

THEY BASICALLY RULE ON WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS SOME SORT OF ERROR IN THE CASE OR IF IT WAS JUDGED INCORRECTLY IF THERE WAS SOME SORT OF TECHNICALITY THAT WAS WRONG.

WE JUST WANT THEM TO BE INDEPENDENT AND THAT SHOULD BE IT.

>> GREAT WRAP.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE CALIFORNIA RECALL, I SEE YOU SMILING.

[ALL LAUGHING] >> THIS WEEK, GOVERNOR GAVIN NEWSOME SURVIVED.

THE RECALL ATTEMPT IN CALIFORNIA AND SURVIVE BEING THE UNDERSTATEMENT.

HE WON BY A 2 TO ONE MARGIN.

I THINK SEVERAL THINGS, THIS WAS SOMETHING ABOUT A MONTH AGO PEOPLE THOUGHT WAS GOING TO BE TOUCH AND GO.

>> DID YOU THINK IT WAS GOING TO BE TOUCH AND GO AT THAT POINT?

>> I NEVER THOUGHT IT COULD BE TOUCH AND GO.

25% OF CALIFORNIA IS REGISTERED REPUBLICAN.

75% IS NOT.

THIS WAS ALWAYS A LEAP TO GET IT DONE, BUT WHAT I'LL TELL YOU IS, I THINK WHAT CHANGED AND WHAT THE NEWSOM CAMPAIGN WAS REALLY REALLY SMART IN DOING IS THEY THEY THE NARRATIVE OF THIS FROM A REFERENDUM ABOUT HIM TO A REFERENDUM ABOUT HIS LEADING OPPONENT, CONSERVATIVE TALK SHOW HOST LARRY ELDER, WHO RAN A TRUMPIAN CAMPAIGN, TALKING ABOUT >> THEY PLAYED THE TRUMP CARD.

>> THEY PLAYED THE TRUMP CARD, BUT HE ALSO RAN SOMETHING -- TALKING THAT HE WAS ANTI-SCIENCE, ANTI-VACCINE VIEWS FLOATING CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND I THINK IT IS THE CANARY IN THE COAL MINE FOR REPUBLICANS.

IF YOU THINK THAT'S A MESSAGE TO RUN ON, NOW OBVIOUSLY IT'S A BLUE STATE, THAT'S NOT TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

THE SECOND THING THEY DID WHAT THEY NATIONALIZED IT.

THEY NATIONALIZED THE RACE WHICH ENERGIZED THE BASE, THEY BROUGHT IN PRESIDENT BIDEN, >> WHEN THEY KNEW THEY HAD THE NUMBERS, >> YEAH AND THEY BROUGHT IN VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS AND OTHER DEMOCRATS NATIONALLY AND THAT ENERGIZED THE BASE AND TURNED OUT FOR MASSIVE WIN FOR DEMOCRATS.

>> IS THERE LESSONS LEARNED FOR REPUBLICANS IN THE VIRGINIA GOVERNOR'S RACE?

>> YEAH, I THINK YOU'RE SEEING THE SAME THING, SAW A BIG DEBATE IN THE LAST COUPLE DAYS BETWEEN TERRY MCAULIFFE AND THE REPUBLICAN OPPONENT IN VIRGINIA WHERE IT REALLY REVOLVED AROUND ARE YOU FOR SCIENCE OR NOT FOR SCIENCE?

AND I THINK THE DANGER OF REPUBLICANS FOR EMBRACING THIS ANTI VAX IS THAT THE MAJORITY OF VOTERS AREN'T WHERE THEY ARE.

>> OKAY JONAH?

>> MAJORITY OF VOTERS IN CALIFORNIA, I MEAN CALIFORNIA CAN BE ITS OWN COUNTRY.

IT HAS A GDP THAT'S THE SIZE OF MOST COUNTRIES, MUCH BIGGER, AND I MEAN LOOK I LOVE LA JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE DOES I GUESS WHAT.

LA AND SAN FRANCISCO ARE SO DIFFERENT, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT CALIFORNIA IS GOING TO BE EMBLEMATIC OF THE REST OF THE COUNTRY, AND THAT I THINK IS ALSO INDICATIVE OF MANY PEOPLE SAY WHAT CALIFORNIA WANTS WE DON'T WANT, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT ANY OF US LEARNED LESSONS ON EITHER.

NOW I WILL SAY THAT IT DOES PROVE THAT BASICALLY DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO TRY TO CAMPAIGN AGAINST TRUMP PROBABLY FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS WHETHER HE'S ON THE BALLOT OR NOT BECAUSE A LOT OF CANDIDATES ATTACHED TO HIM, I THINK THE REAL SHAME IN ALL THIS IS THE THRESHOLD FOR RECALL WAS SO LOW, THEY SPENT 270 MILLION DOLLARS ON THIS WHEN IT COULD HAVE GONE TO HOMELESSNESS, TO HEALTH CARE, ALL THESE OTHER THINGS.

>> RIGHT AND DEMOCRATS NOW ARE TRYING TO GET RID OF THE RECALL IN CALIFORNIA.

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW THEY'RE BEING QUESTIONED AT THAT THEY'VE BEEN QUESTIONS THAT HAVE COME UP ABOUT LOOKING AT THE RECALL EFFORT.

>> TRUMP DID NOT ENDORSE THOUGH, CORRECT?

HE DID NOT ENDORSE LARRY ELDER.

>> HE DID NOT BUT I MEAN -- >> HE WAS ON THE BALLOT.

>> BUT HE WAS ON THE BALLOT, AND I THINK THE MORGAN'S POINT NUMBER ONE.

I THINK IT'S A PLAYBOOK FOR DEMOCRATS TO NATIONALIZE RACES.

I MEAN CLEARLY LARRY ELDER IS NOT ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER AND DONALD TRUMP IS NOT RONALD REAGAN SO, I MEAN THAT -- >> IT'S NOT REAGAN'S PARTY ANYMORE.

>> IT'S NOT BUT THE OTHER THING THAT I'LL POINT OUT TO KIND OF PUSH BACK ON JONAH'S POINT ACTUALLY IF YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT ORANGE COUNTY WHERE REPUBLICANS GET COMPETITIVE, THE RECALL EFFORT ACTUALLY FAILED ABOUT 5%.

SO I THINK IT ACTUALLY ILLUSTRATES THE FACT THAT YOU CAN TAKE PART OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THE RECALL EFFORT APPLY IT TO 2022.

>> MITCH, WRAP THIS UP IN ABOUT 30.

>> THE BEST THING THAT HAPPENED TO GAVIN NEWSOME WAS THAT THE LEADING CONTENDER WAS LARRY ELDER AND HAD ANOTHER DEMOCRAT, DECIDED I WANT TO TRY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS, AND SOMEONE WHO HAD SOME NAME RECOGNITION OR IF REPUBLICANS HAD PUT UP SOMEONE WHO WAS JUST MANAGERIAL, WHO DIDN'T COME ACROSS AS TRUMPIAN BUT CAME ACROSS AS A COMPETENT PERSON WHO COULD FIX WHAT AILS CALIFORNIA IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN MUCH DIFFERENT STORY.

>> BUT ELDER SPEAKING FEES ARE UP.

[LAUGHTER] OKAY, LET'S GO TO A REPORT OF STORY OF THE WEEK.

>> WE TALKED ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT ALREADY BUT I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO THE SUPREME COURT THERE'S AN ONGOING CASE THAT'S GOING TO DECIDE WHETHER 50,000 PLUS FELONS WHO HAVE FINISHED THEIR ACTIVE PRISON TIME ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO VOTE IN THE FUTURE IN NORTH CAROLINA ELECTIONS.

OUR STATE CONSTITUTION SAYS FELONS CAN'T VOTE UNLESS IT IS SPELLED OUT IN THE LAW, BUT A 3 JUDGE PANEL BACK IN AUGUST THREW OUT THE LAW AND SAID THESE FELONS SHOULD VOTE WHICH IS BASICALLY JUDGES REWRITING THE LAW.

11 DAYS LATER, THE COURT OF APPEALS ISSUED A STAY ON THAT RULING, THE SUPREME COURT HAS KEPT THE STAY, BUT THE SUPREME COURT SAID ANYONE WHO ACTED QUICKLY AND REGISTERED TO VOTE IN BETWEEN THE TIME OF THE COURT THE TRIAL COURT RULING AND THE APPEALS COURT RULING YOU GET TO VOTE.

SO IT'S AN INTERESTING DILEMMA.

>> ARE YOU MAKING PHONE CALLS RIGHT NOW TO GET OUT THE VOTE?

[LAUGHTER] >> THAT'S A GOOD STORY IDEA!

>> UNDERREPORTED MORGAN.

>> [MORGAN] GLAD WE COULD HELP.

>> MY UNDERREPORTED IS IT GIVES A LITTLE BACK TO CALIFORNIA, BUT IT TIES INTO THE 2020 ELECTION, IS EVEN BEFORE THE FIRST VOTES WERE CAST IN CALIFORNIA, TRUMP AND A LOT OF REPUBLICANS WERE CLAIMING THE ELECTION WAS RIGGED.

AGAIN IN A STATE AS BLUE IS CALIFORNIA.

THE DANGER IN ALL THIS AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS IS THE BIGGEST THREAT TO OUR DEMOCRACY SINCE THE CIVIL WAR IS TRUMP HAS NOW CONVINCED 65% OF REPUBLICANS THAT JOE BIDEN WAS NOT ACTUALLY ELECTED.

THEY ARE RUNNING ON A MESSAGE OF ELECTION FRAUD EVERYWHERE, IF A DEMOCRAT WINS, SOMEBODY MUST HAVE CHEATED.

>> WAS IT EVERYWHERE OR WAS IT JUST OUT THERE RECENTLY?

>> WHAT.. >> WHEN THEY STARTED MAKING ELECTION FRAUD CLAIMS.

>> NO WELL THAT WAS ONLY THE ELECTION MAKING AN ARGUMENT THAT CALIFORNIA HAD ELECTION FRAUD -- >> I DON'T THINK THAT DOG HUNTS.

>> IT DOESN'T HUNT.

THE BIG POINT MARC IS YOU'VE GOT ALL OF THESE JANUARY, THE 6TH RALLIES THAT ARE TAKING PLACE IN NEXT WEEK THAT ARE REALLY ABOUT ELECTION FRAUD AND AGAIN IT IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TO OUR DEMOCRACY THAT YOU'VE GOT SUCH A LARGE MAJORITY OF ONE PARTY WHO BELIEVES THAT ELECTIONS AREN'T VALIDATED UNLESS THEY WIN.

>> JONAH UNDERREPORTED PLEASE MY FRIEND.

>> SO LET'S GO TO THE KOREAN PENINSULA BECAUSE NORTH KOREA JUST FIRED 2 BALLISTIC MISSILES IN TESTS THIS WEEK, SOUTH KOREA THEN COUNTERED THAT AND LET'S NOT FORGET ABOUT THIS REGIME OF NORTH KOREA WHICH AS WE MARK 9.11 ANNIVERSARY LAST WEEK WAS PART OF THE AXIS OF EVIL THAT PRESIDENT BUSH HAD.

NOW PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD 2 VERY HIGH-PROFILE SIT DOWN WITH KIM JONG-UN THE DICTATOR NORTH KOREA.

I REMEMBER AT THE TIME PEOPLE ARE SAYING GIVE HIM THE NOBEL PRIZE BECAUSE THAT DIALOGUE WAS SUPPOSED TO HEAD SOMEWHERE, CLEARLY EITHER BECAUSE PRESIDENT TRUMP IS NOT IN OFFICE ANYMORE, OR BECAUSE NORTH KOREA HAS LOST PATIENCE, OR IT'S BECAUSE IT'S NORTH KOREA, THEY'RE GOING TO FIND THESE BALLISTIC MISSILES AGAIN.

>> DID THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION RESPOND HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT.

>> I MEAN THEY CONDEMNED IT, AND OF COURSE, BUT JAPAN -- >> STONE MEMO TO FOLLOW?

>> WELL OF COURSE AND THOSE THEY'RE GOING TO CIRCLE BACK.

I THINK IT'S THE -- LOOK AND ANYONE WHO THINKS ABOUT WHY THE U.S.

STILL HAS PRESENCE THERE IT'S BECAUSE THEY ARE ON THE DOORSTEP OF NORTH KOREA, CHINA AND RUSSIA AND THAT'S THE KIND OF STABILITY THAT WE NEED RIGHT NOW THAT NORTH KOREA'S TRYING TO THREATEN.

>> JAY.

>> THE WALL STREET JOURNAL HAS BEEN RUNNING A SERIES OF AN ONGOING SERIES CALLED THE FACEBOOK FILES AND THE LATEST SERIES IS REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE IT LOOKS AT A SERIES OF INTERNAL FACEBOOK DOCUMENTS AND RESEARCH REPORTS ABOUT WHAT THIS ALL BEEN TURNED OVER TO A WHISTLEBLOWER BUT THE LATEST SERIES ACTUALLY POINTS OUT THAT FACEBOOK TRIED TO MAKE THEIR PLATFORM HEALTHIER BUT IN TURN THE PLATFORM BECAME ANGRIER AND SO AS A RESULT OF FACEBOOK'S EFFORTS AND THE ALGORITHM PEOPLE STARTED SHARING MESSAGES THAT INCLUDED MISINFORMATION THAT WERE VIOLENT IN CONTENT AND GOT SHARED REPEATEDLY.

I THINK THE MORGAN'S POINT IF IT'S NOT DONALD TRUMP, IT'S CERTAINLY SOCIAL MEDIA THAT'S FRAYING OUR DEMOCRACY.

>> OK, LET'S GO TO LIGHTNING ROUND WHO'S UP AND WHO'S DOWN THIS WEEK.

MITCH?

>> MY WHAT'S UP IS TAXES IF US HOUSE DEMOCRATS GET THEIR WAY.

THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE UNVEILED ITS PLAN TO HELP PAY FOR ALL OF THE THINGS THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN WANTS TO DO YOU WOULD SEE A 39.6% INDIVIDUAL TAX RATE ON CAPITAL GAINS WE GO FROM 20 TO 25%, THE CORPORATE RATE WOULD GO FROM 21 TO 26 AND A HALF PERCENT OVERALL 2.2 TRILLION DOLLARS IN NEW REVENUE OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS.

MY DOWN THE NORTH CAROLINA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, ANOTHER AUDIT THIS WEEK FROM STATE AUDITOR BETH WOOD, SHE SAID THE GOOD NEWS, NO OVERSPENDING FROM THE DOT, THE BAD NEWS THAT WAS JUST LUCK, THEY HAVEN'T CHANGED ANY OF THE THINGS THEY HAVEN'T CHANGED ANY OF THE THINGS THAT CAUSE THE OVERSPENDING IN THE PAST.

>> MORGAN I'D RATHER BE LUCKY THAN GOOD.

SO UP THIS WEEK IS SPACE X.

LAUNCHED FOUR NON ASTRONAUTS INTO SPACE.

AND I SAY THAT'S UP NOT ONLY IS IT AN INCREDIBLE STORY BUT FOR EVERY KID OUT THERE, WHO IS DREAMING OF GOING TO SPACE, THE FUTURE IS SO BRIGHT.

YOU KNOW 40 SOME YEARS AGO MY MOTHER TOLD ME I COULD BE ANYTHING I WANTED TO INCLUDE AN ASTRONAUT, AND SO YOU KNOW I MAY GET MUCH CHANCE AT THIS POINT BECAUSE CLEARLY I THINK HEALTHWISE YOU KNOW SOMEBODY WITH 200,000 TO FLY UP THERE?

IT'S GOING TO TAKE MONEY BECAUSE I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO PASS PASS THE HEALTH QUIZ.

[LAUGHTER] >> DOWN THIS WEEK IS MADISON CAWTHORN THE WAYWARD MEMBER OF CONGRESS FROM WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA WHO IS SPENDING HIS TIME INSTEAD OF WORKING ON FEDERAL ISSUES GOING TO SCHOOL BOARD MEETINGS AND PROTESTING THE SCHOOL BOARD'S ABILITY TO TRY TO KEEP KIDS SAFE.

IN 2 INSTANCES, HE SHOWED UP ON CAMPUS WITH A KNIFE.

AND APPARENTLY DIDN'T REALIZE THAT YOU CAN'T DO THAT.

>> JONAH?

>> CAMPUS 4 HOURS AWAY FROM HIS DISTRICT >> 300 MILES.

>> WHAT'S UP IS THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT IS BEING SPENT ON CARING FOR UNVACCINATED INDIVIDUALS IN THIS COUNTRY KAISER FAMILY FOUNDATION REPORTING 6 BILLION DOLLARS IS BEING SPENT TO TREAT UNVACCINATED AMERICANS IN THESE HOSPITALS AND WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IS SOMEONE HAS TO PAY FOR THAT.

IT'S GOING TO TRICKLE DOWN THE HOSPITAL WHO THEN HAVE TO CHARGE MORE FROM THE INSURANCE COMPANIES THEN HAVE TO CHARGE MORE FROM POLICYHOLDERS.

WHO'S DOWN IS THE CHAIRMAN OF JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF MARK MILLEY.

THE PRESIDENT STANDING BEHIND HIM WITH THE STORY THAT'S COME OUT >> [MARC] FOR NOW >> [JONAH] FOR NOW.

I THINK PROBABLY A RESIGNATION MIGHT NOT BE THE WORST THING.

>> JAY?

>> WE TALK A LOT ABOUT INFLATION ON THIS SHOW AND SO >> [MARC] WE'RE A BUSINESS SHOW.

>> WE ARE.

SO WHO'S UP IS FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIR JEROME POWELL, SOME CENTRIST DEMOCRATS NOW ARE URGING PRESIDENT BIDEN FOR HIM TO BE REAPPOINTED AS FED CHAIR FOR A SECOND TERM.

THEY BELIEVE THAT WILL SIGNAL MORE INDEPENDENCE OF THE INSTITUTION OF THE MARKETS, >> DOES IT START TAPERING BACK ON PRINTING MONEY?

>> I MEAN I'M NOT AN ECONOMIST MARC SO, I THINK POWELL HAS DONE A GOOD JOB IN TRYING TO KEEP THE ECONOMY HUMMING.

WHO'S DOWN IS CIVICA LITERACY.

INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH A POLL BY THE BY THE ANNENBERG CENTER FINDS THAT POLAR A MORE POLARIZED SOCIETY IS ACTUALLY LEAD TO AMERICANS KNOWING MORE ABOUT THE 3 BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT SO USED TO BE THAT ONLY A 3RD OF AMERICANS CAN IDENTIFY THE 3 BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT BACK IN 2006 NOW IT'S MORE THAN HALF SO.

>> HEADLINE NEXT WEEK?

>> LAWMAKERS FINALIZE LATEST BILL ON GOVERNOR'S EMERGENCY POWERS SETTING UP ANOTHER VETO.

>> HEADLINE NEXT WEEK MORGAN?

>> THAT'LL BE SUSTAINED.

[LAUGHTER] SO I THINK THE NEXT WEEK IS I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE PROGRESS ON THE BUDGET AND THEY'RE GOING TO START BETWEEN HOUSE AND SENATE START NEGOTIATING WITH THE GOVERNOR.

>> HEADLINE QUICKLY, >> DEM INFIGHTING IN WASHINGTON THREATENS INFRASTRUCTURE.

>> HEADLINE NEXT WEEK >> REDISTRICTING IN BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS CONTINUE, WILL THEY ACTUALLY FINISH BY THANKSGIVING?

>> GREAT JOB GENTS.

THAT'S IT FOR US.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

SEE YOU NEXT WEEK ON FRONT ROW.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

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