>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & CO., HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP .

>>> FREE AT LAST, THE NIGHTMARE IS ENDING FOR FIVE AMERICANS DETAINED IN IRAN, I SPEAK WITH U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY SPOKESMAN JOHN KIRBY ABOUT THE DEAL TO BRING THEM HOME AND WHO REPRESENTS THE LONGEST HELD.

>>> THE UNITED NATIONS HAS NO POWER, THERE IS NO MONEY BUT WE HAVE A VOICE AS MILLIONS GATHER FOR THE U.S.

SUMMIT, I SPEAK TO AONTONIO GUTERRES ABOUT BREAKING THE LONG JAM ON THE CLIMATE, PEACE, AND THE CLAIMANT.

>> WE WERE AWARE OF A CHEVY FOR MORE THAN 40 YEARS, IT'S STILL A PANDEMIC KILLING THE BETTER PART OF 1 MILLION PEOPLE FOR A YEAR.

>>> AS REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS TARGET GEORGE W. BUSH, ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL A.I.D.S.

PROGRAMS OF ALL TIME, WE SPEAK TO THE SCHOLARS ABOUT THE GLOBAL FALLOUT.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I AM CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN NEW YORK.

FIVE AMERICANS DETAINED IN IRAN ARE FREE AND ON THEIR WAY TO THE UNITED STATES.

THIS MORNING, SIAMAK NAMAZI, EMAD SHARGI, MORAD TAHBAZ, AND TWO NOT NAMED BOARDED A JET IN QATAR BEFORE THEN TRAVELING TO WASHINGTON, D.C.

IT'S ALL PART OF A AN AGREEMENT WHICH ALSO INCLUDES THE RELEASE OF 6 BILLION FOR IRANIAN FUNDS, THIS MARKS THE END OF A YEAR-LONG NIGHTMARE FOR THESE DETAINEES, I SPOKE WITH THEM IN MARCH.

HE WAS SO DESPERATE HE CALLED THE PROGRAM FROM THE NOTORIOUS PRISON.

>> THE VERY FACT I CHOSE TO TAKE THIS RISK AND APPEAR ON CNN FROM IN PRISON, IT SHOULD TELL YOU HOW DIRE MY SITUATION HAS BECOME.

I HAVE BEEN A HOSTAGE FOR 7 1/2 YEARS NOW.

THAT IS SIX TIMES THE DURATION OF A HOSTAGE CRISIS, I KEEP GETTING TOLD THAT I'M GOING TO BE RESCUED, AND DEALS FALL APART WHERE I GET ABANDONED.

HONESTLY, THE OTHER HOSTAGES AND I DESPERATELY NEED PRESIDENT BIDEN TO HEAR US OUT, TO HEAR OUR CRY FOR HELP AND BRING US HOME.

>> I WAS EVERYDAY LIFE FOR YOU?

HOW DO YOU GET THROUGH THE DAYS?

>> RIGHT, THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH I'M COMFORTABLE SAYING ON CNN ABOUT THIS.

I THINK THE SHORT ANSWER IS THAT I'VE ALWAYS BEEN MADE TO FEEL THAT WAY VERY HUMANITY HAS BEEN TAKEN FROM ME.

WE HAVE A GENERAL WORD, THE SITUATION IN THE GENERAL WORD IS FAR BETTER THAN THE CORNER OF I USED TO BE IN, OR FROM A PLEASANT PLACE TO BE IN, EVERYTHING BECOMES RELATIVE, IT IS STILL EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO BEAR THE VERY BASIC FACTS THAT I AM DENIED MANY OF THEIR RIGHTS OF A PRISONER BECAUSE I AM A HOSTAGE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW TO CONVEY THAT, I SEE CRIMINALS, I SEE PEOPLE WHO ARE HUMAN TRAFFICKERS HAVE MORE RIGHT THAN I DO.

I DON'T KNOW.

>> HE ENDURED EIGHT YEARS OF THAT, HE RELEASED A STATEMENT THAT SAYS IN PART, AS A HOSTAGE, 2898 DAYS OF WHAT SHOULD'VE BEEN THE BEST DAY OF HER LIFE OR STOLEN ME AND SUPPLANTED WITH TORMENT, WHILE IN PRISON, I EXPERIENCED THE WORST OF HUMANITY.

OUTSIDE OF THOSE WALLS, THERE WERE COUNTLESS PEOPLE WHO REMINDED ME OF THE BEST OF HUMANITY, THEY LEARNED OF OUR FAMILIES ARE SUFFERING AND INNUMERABLE SMALL AND BIG WAYS CONTRIBUTED TO OUR READ HERE NOW THE U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN COMMENTED ON THE RELEASE AND AN EMOTIONAL STATEMENT.

>> IT IS EASY IN THE WORK WE DO EVERY DAY, SOMETIMES TO GET LOST IN THE ABSTRACTIONS OF FOREIGN POLICY AND RELATIONS WITH OTHER COUNTRIES, AND FORGETTING THE HUMAN ELEMENT AT THE HEART OF EVERYTHING WE DO.

TODAY, THEIR FREEDOM, THE OF THESE AMERICANS ARE SO LONG UNJUSTLY IMPRISONED AND DETAINED IN IRAN MEANS BASIC THINGS, IT MEANS HUSBANDS AND WIVES, FATHERS AND CHILDREN, GRANDPARENTS, CAN HUG EACH OTHER AGAIN.

>>> GOOD ASSEMBLY, THE DEAL SEES SOME REPUBLICAN PUSHBACK, THEY HAVE ALSO ENGAGED IN THESE PRISONER DEALS AS WELL.

JOINING US NOW IS U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL SPOKESPERSON JOHN KIRBY, JUST AS WE START OUR CONVERSATION.

A SOURCE FAMILIAR WITH THE MATTER TELLS US THE AMERICANS HAVE DEPARTED ON A U.S. GOVERNMENT PLANE.

JOHN KIRBY, THAT IS GOOD NEWS.

AMPLIFY A LITTLE FOR US WHAT WAS GOING ON DO YOU THINK BEHIND THE SCENES IN YOUR ADMINISTRATION WHEN YOU KNEW THAT FINALLY THIS DEAL WAS HAPPENING, WE HEARD FROM SECRETARY BLINKEN THERE.

>> THIS IS THE CULMINATION OF MONTHS AND MONTHS OF WORK, AS YOU MIGHT IMAGINE.

IT'S REALLY KIND OF CAME TOGETHER OVER SOME RECENT WEEKS, THE PARAMETERS OF THESE NEGOTIATIONS ALWAYS HEARD OF MORPH AND CHANGE AS YOU GET POSTED TO THE END, AS IT CAME OUT, WE THINK THAT THIS WAS A TOUGH DECISION BY PRESIDENT BIDEN, IT IS NEVER AN EASY DECISION TO MAKE THESE NEGOTIATIONS AND SET UP ROSS FROM SOME FOLKS, IN ORDER TO GET THESE AMERICANS HOME, WE ARE GLAD WE GOT THAT DONE.

>> YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT THEY UNDERWENT AT LEAST A CURSORY QUICK MEDICAL CHECK OVER, THEY WERE GIVEN PHONES, THEY WERE ABLE TO TALK, WE UNDERSTAND THE FAMILIES ALSO -- THE PRISONERS TALK TO PRESIDENT BIDEN, THERE'S A LOT GOING ON IN THAT HOUR THAT THEY HAVE SPENT.

DO YOU KNOW THEIR CONDITION AT ALL?

>> THE PRESIDENT DID HAVE A CHANCE TO SPEAK TO FAMILIES, AND FROM WHAT WE UNDERSTAND, THEY WERE KEPT IN SOME ABHORRENT CONDITIONS.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE ANYTHING FOR GRANTED, WE GET ACT AS TO WHATEVER MEDICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH CARE THEY NEED FOR THEY REINTEGRATE BACK INTO SOCIETY, THEY APPEAR TO BE IN RELATIVELY GOOD HEALTH AND OBVIOUSLY VERY HAPPY TO BE RELEASED, WE ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO GETTING THEM BACK ON U.S.

SOIL.

>>> DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING, I KNOW THEY WANT TO BE PRIVATE, CAN YOU TELL US ANYTHING ABOUT THE TWO NOT NAMED, HOW LONG THEY HAVE BEEN HELD AND WHAT IS THEIR PROFESSIONS?

>> NO, I'M AFRAID OUT OF PRIVACY CONCERNS FOR THOSE TWO INDIVIDUALS, WE ARE GOING TO TRY TO KEEP AS MUCH DETAIL OUT OF THE PUBLIC EYE AS WE CAN.

THEY BOTH WERE LIKE THE OTHERS WRONGFULLY DETAINED BY IRAN, WE ARE HAPPY TO GET THEM TOO, I WILL ADD IT'S NOT JUST THE FIVE AMERICANS THAT WERE WRONGLY DETAINED, TWO FAMILY MEMBERS, THE WIFE OF ONE OF THE MOTHER OF ANOTHER ARE ALSO ON THAT PLANE.

IN ESSENCE, REALLY SEVEN AMERICANS ARE COMING ON TODAY.

STRMECKI OF COURSE WERE NOT IN JAIL BUT APPARENTLY WERE NOT FREE TO LEAVE AND THEY WERE THERE OBVIOUSLY VISITING THEIR LOVED ONES IN JAIL, WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE POLITICS OF THIS, WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT THE POLITICS OF THIS, WHEN CERTAIN REPUBLICANS PUSHBACK, LET ME JUST READ YOU WHAT SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM SAID, I'M ALWAYS GLAD WHEN AMERICANS ARE RELEASED FROM IT CAPTIVITY, DISAGREEMENT WILL ENTICE IRAN TO TAKE MORE AMERICANS HOSTAGE, HIS HENCHMEN ARE TERRACE AND TRULY REPRESENT A TERRORIST STATE.

WE KNOW THAT REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATIONS HAVING IT IN THESE SWAPS AS WELL, WHAT DO YOU SAY TO CRITICS?

>> WHAT WE WOULD SAY IS NUMBER ONE, LET'S FOCUS ON WHAT REALLY MATTERS, FIVE AMERICANS ARE GOING TO BE REUNITED, NUMBER TWO, IT IS NOT AS IF THE TAKING OF HOSTAGES OR DETENTION WRONGFULLY OF AMERICANS OR OWNERS IS A NEW TACTIC, IT IS NOT JUST IRAN THAT DOES THIS, THERE'S OTHER COUNTRIES THAT DO THIS AS WELL, INCLUDING RUSSIA.

IT IS DIFFICULT TO SAY THAT THIS PARTICULAR DEAL, THIS PARTICULAR NEGOTIATION IS SOMEHOW GOING TO CHANGE THE CALCULUS IN THAT REGARD.

THAT IS WHY THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAS MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT AMERICANS, NATIONALS IN PARTICULAR SHOULD NOT BE IN THE WRONG, SHOULD NOT BE THERE AND IF THEY CAN MAKE THEIR WAY OUT, THEY SHOULD BECAUSE IT IS A PARTICULARLY DANGEROUS PLACE TO GO, THE NUMBER THREE, IT IS ALSO NOT LIKE RETURNING A BLIND EYE TO THE DESTABILIZING BEHAVIOR, THE SUPPORT FOR RUSSIA AND THEIR WAR IN UKRAINE, THE ATTACKS ON MARITIME SHIPPING, THE SUPPORT FOR TERRORIST NETWORKS, WE SANCTIONED ADDITIONAL ENTITIES LAST WEEK, WE SANCTIONED SOME MORE TODAY AS A RESULT OF WRONG ALL THE ATTENTION, WE WILL ABSOLUTELY CONTINUE TO HOLD IRAN ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR AND CONDUCT IN THE REGION.

>> I WANT TO KNOW HOW YOU WOULD HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE TO THE EXPENDITURE OF THE 6 BILLION, LET'S BE FRANK, IT'S NOT AMERICAN MONEY, IT IS IRANIAN MONDAY -- MONEY BEING VENTED BY OIL PURCHASES BY SOUTH KOREA, THOSE FUNDS HAVE BEEN RELEASED TO QATAR TO BE USED FOR HUMANITARIAN REASONS, YOU KNOW THAT THE PRESIDENT WHO IS IN NEW YORK RIGHT NOW TOLD NBC SOMETHING DIFFERENT, THIS IS WHAT HE SAID.

>> THIS MONEY BELONGS TO THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN.

>> Translator: NATURALLY, WE WILL DECIDE THE REPUBLIC OF IRAN WILL DECIDE TO EXPEND IT, WHEREVER WE NEED IT.

>> IF I HEAR YOU CLEARLY THAT IT WILL BE USED FOR MORE THAN HUMANITARIAN PURPOSES IN YOUR VIEW?

>> Translator: HUMANITARIAN MEANS WHATEVER THE IRANIAN PEOPLE NEED , THIS MONEY WILL BE BUDGETED FOR THOSE NEEDS.

IN THE MIDST OF THE IRANIAN PEOPLE, WE WILL DECIDE AND DETERMINED BY THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT.

>> IS HE THREADING A NEEDLE, BLUSTERING, HOW DO YOU GUARD AGAINST THAT?

>> I CANNOT SPEAK FOR HOW HE CAME TO COUCH IT THAT WAY.

IF HE WAS TRYING TO SAY THAT THE REGIME WILL GET ACCESS TO THIS MONEY DIRECTLY, LETTER A OR B, THAT THEY CAN SPEND WHATEVER THEY WANT, HE'S WRONG ON BOTH COUNTS, IT WILL NOT GO TO THE REGIME, THEY WILL NOT GET THEIR HANDS ON ANY OF THIS, IT WILL BE MANAGED IN THE NATIONAL BANK SYSTEM, THEY CAN ASK FOR A WITHDRAWAL FOR HIM UNITARIAN GOODS FOR AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS, THE SYSTEM IS SET UP SO THAT WE WILL IN CONCERT WITH THEM APPLY IT TO VENDORS WHO WILL PURCHASE THE MATERIAL, MEDICINE, FOOD, AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS AND THEN GET IT DELIVERED INTO IRAN, THE REGIME WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GET HER ACTUAL HANDS ON THIS MONEY AND WHATEVER -- WE CAN STOP A TRANSACTION IF WE THINK THERE IS SOMETHING ARRIVE AND WE CAN REPHRASE THOSE FUNDS IF WE THINK IRAN IS IN THE LONG-TERM GOING TO TRY TO TREAT -- CHEAT OR DIVERT FUNDS.

THE MAC THAT IS BECAUSE THE U.S. TREASURY DEPARTMENT HAS EYES ON ALL OF THIS, RIGHT?

>> THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT, THIS MONEY WILL BE HANDLED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE REQUIREMENTS THAT THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT HAS LAID ON, WE WILL HAVE HIS ABILITY, THEY WILL HAVE VISIBILITY AND WE WILL BE ABLE TO MONITOR HOW THIS MONIES BEING WITHDRAWN AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE, WE WILL HAVE ULTIMATE APPROVAL AUTHORITY OVER THAT PURPOSE.

>> OBVIOUSLY, EVERYONE WOULD LIKE TO HOPE THAT THIS MEANS A BIGGER, BETTER RELATIONSHIP ON CRUCIAL ISSUES LIKE THE NUCLEAR ISSUE FOR INSTANCE, WHERE DOES THAT STAND RIGHT NOW, WHAT IS THE IRANIAN UNDERSTANDING OR YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHERE ENRICHMENT IS GOING TO STAY AT, DO YOU HAVE HOPE FOR ANOTHER FORMAL IRANIAN NUCLEAR DEAL?

>> IT IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THIS DEAL TO GET THESE AMERICAN HOME IS A SEPARATE ISSUE DONE IN A COMPLETELY SEPARATE ENVIRONMENT THROUGH A SEPARATE SET OF DIPLOMATIC INITIATIVES, NOT TIED AT ALL.

TO DESTABILIZING ACTIVITIES, THIS IS NOT ABOUT TRYING TO BUILD SOME SORT OF -- REPROACH WITH IRAN OR TO GET US BACK INTO THE DEAL, THAT SAID, THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN CAN STAND ON TWO THINGS, ONE, WE WILL NOT ALLOWALLOW A NUCLEAR WEAPON, WE SAW THAT WEAPON DIPLOMATICALLY, SHORT OF DIPLOMACY, DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS, THERE ARE NO EFFORTS TO DIPLOMATIC NEGOTIATIONS OVER THIS, IN ABSENCE, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THE PRESIDENT HAS ALL THE OPTIONS AVAILABLE, WE HAVE BOOSTED OUR MILITARY CAPABILITIES, WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE GOT THE KINDS OF CAPABILITIES AND OPTIONS AVAILABLE TO THE PRESIDENT SHOULD WE HAVE TO USE THEM, NOBODY WANTS TO GO THAT ROUTE, RIGHT NOW, THERE IS NO AUTOMATIC EFFORT TO GET BACK INTO THE IRAN DEAL.

>> AND I JUST WORK ONTO ANOTHER VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE FOR THE ADMINISTRATION, THAT IS SUPPORTING UKRAINE'S DEFENSE, WE HAVE SEEN POLLS THAT SUGGEST THAT MORE AMERICANS NOW QUESTION USAID TO UKRAINE, WE KNOW THE PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENT ZELENSKY WILL MEET TOMORROW, BOTH ARE SPEAKING.

YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT TO HEAR, WHAT WILL THE RESPONSE BE?

>> I THINK, I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR THE PRESIDENT, I DON'T THINK IT IS A STRETCH TO IMAGINE THAT HE'S GOING TO UPDATE THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY AND CERTAINLY WHEN YOU GET THE CHANCE TO SIT WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN, UPDATE THE PRESIDENT PERSONALLY ABOUT HOW THEIR COUNTEROFFENSIVE IS GOING, IT IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT THEY ARE MAKING PROGRESS NOT AS FAST OR AS FAR AS THEY WOULD LIKE, BUT THEY ARE MAKING STEADY PROGRESS.

THE NUMBER TWO, YOU WILL HEAR FROM THE PRESIDENT OF, SHE CONTINUES TO NEED INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT.

U.S.

LEADERSHIP OBVIOUSLY HAS BEEN KEY TO GETTING THEM THE ARMS AND EQUIPMENT THEY NEED ON THE BATTLE, IT'S NOT JUST THE UNITED STATES, JUST THIS WEEK, SECRETARY AUSTIN AND THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS ARE MEETING AGAIN IN GERMANY, MORE THAN 50 NATIONS IN THIS CONTACT GROUP TO DEVELOP OPTIONS FOR ADDITIONAL SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE WHETHER THAT IS IN MINE CLEARANCE, AIR DEFENSE, ALSO ARMOR AND AMMUNITION INCLUDING ARTILLERY, ALL OF THOSE THINGS THEY STILL NEED, I THINK YOU WILL HEAR THE PRESIDENT MAKE A PASSIONATE CASE FOR WHY IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO STAY BEHIND HIM, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO WORRY ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE CAN CONTINUE TO DO THIS, THE SUPPORT WE HAVE BEEN GETTING ON CAPITOL HILL BOTH BICAMERAL AND BIPARTISAN REMAINS SOLID THE PRESIDENT EXPECTS THAT THAT IS SUPPORT FROM CONGRESS THAT WILL CONTINUE, WE ALSO KNOW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE KNOW THAT THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT UKRAINE, CERTAINLY FIRST AND FOREMOST IT IS WITHOUT QUESTION THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE MATTER FIRST AND FOREMOST, IT'S ALSO ABOUT THE GREATER SECURITY ENVIRONMENT ON THE CONTINENT, WHAT HAPPENS IF HE JUST GETS TO DO WHAT HE WANTS, IF HE GETS TO TAKE UKRAINE.

WHERE DOES IT STOP THEN ASK HE THE COST IN BLOOD AND TREASURE, NOT JUST THE UNITED STATES AND AMERICAN PEOPLE, BUT TO OUR ALLIES AND PARTNERS WILL BE EXORBITANTLY HIGHER IF WE JUST WALK AWAY FROM SUPPORTING UKRAINE AND THEIR FIGHT.

>> A POWERFUL CASE INDEED, JOHN KIRBY, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ATTORNEY JARED GET SO REPRESENTS FORMER DETAINEE SIAMAK NAMAZI.

HE'S JOINING ME NOW FROM GENEVA, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

WE HAVE SPOKEN SEVERAL TIMES ABOUT THIS, JUST YOUR FEELINGS RIGHT NOW.

>> I AM FILLED WITH A LOT OF GRATITUDE, CANDIDLY, IT HAS BEEN A LONG STRIDE FOR THE FAMILY, NOT JUST SIAMAK NAMAZI , HIS GRANDFATHER WHO SPENT YEARS AS A HOSTAGE HIMSELF AND ALMOST DIED IN IRAN ALSO.

FOR THE FAMILY TO FINALLY BE ABLE TO COME TOGETHER FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE EARLY 2015, IT IS JUST SUCH AN EX-ORDINARY MIRACLE, CANDIDLY GIVEN WE HAD NO IDEA IF HE WOULD LIVE TO SEE THIS DAY.

>> ACTUALLY, ALL THE FORMER HOSTAGES AND THEIR FAMILIES HAVE RELEASED STATEMENTS ALL SAYING THE PRESIDENT, ALL ARE DELIGHTED TO HAVE OUR LOVED ONES BACK.

IF YOU HAVE SPOKEN, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE.

WHAT DID HE SAY?

>> HE AND I HAVE BEEN SPENDING A LOT OF TIME TALKING, ESPECIALLY LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, THE RUN UP TO THIS DAY.

HE CALLED ME FROM THERE WHEN THEY TOOK OFF, HE LANDED, I SAW HIM UP COURSE WITH CNN WALKING DOWN THE STAIRS, WHICH WAS OVERWHELMED BY THE -- ENORMITY OF BEING ON A HOTEL IN GENEVA.

HE PICKS UP THE PHONES AND CALLS ME, AND TELLS YOU I'M FREE NOW.

I WAS TOTALLY OVERWHELMED.

>> IT REALLY IS AMAZING, TELL ME ABOUT -- IT HAS TAKEN SO LONG, YOU HAVE BEEN LOBBYING ON BEHALF OF THE EMILY PRO BONO COUNSEL FOR SO LONG, MANY PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW WHY IT HAS TAKEN SO LONG, THE PARAMETERS OF A DEAL AS FAR AS I KNOW, EVIDENT FOR A LONG TIME.

WHY DO YOU THINK THIS HAS TAKEN SO LONG, WHAT ARE THE POLITICAL, LEGAL, AND ALL THE OTHER RESTRICTIONS IF YOU LIKE, OR CHALLENGES.

>> ONE OF THE MOST PAINFUL LESSONS I'VE LEARNED AS AN ADVOCATE IT IS SO HARD TO GET UNITED STATES AND IRAN TO THE TABLE.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A SITUATION LIKE THIS, AND ALTERNATELY THEIR FAMILY HAS HAD THEIR WORST NIGHTMARE OF AN AMERICAN WHO BECOMES A HOSTAGE IN A COUNTRY, IT'S WORTH REMEMBERING THAT SOMEONE WAS LEFT BEHIND BY OBAMA, HE WAS THE ONLY AMERICAN LEFT BEHIND.

HE PROMISED THE FAMILY HE WOULD BE OUT FOR A FEW WEEKS, THAT'S WHAT HE WAS TOLD.

HE WENT BACK TO FINALLY SEE SIAMAK NAMAZI IN PRISON .

HE GETS GRABBED AND TAKEN HOSTAGE TOO.

THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION HAD TWO OF THEM IN JAIL, PRESIDENT TRUMP CAME IN HAD THIS MAXIMUM PRESSURE POLICY.

THEY HOPED AS I DID THAT THAT MIGHT MEAN THEY WOULD DO SOMETHING TO HELP GET OUR HOSTAGES OUT.

IT TURNED OUT THE MAXIMUM PRESSURE POLICY WAS A ZERO PRESSURE POLICY ON HOSTAGES.

I CANNOT RECALL A SINGLE THING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION DID NOT PUT ANY PRESSURE OF ANY MEANINGFUL KIND ON IRAN TO RELEASE THEM, THEY LEFT THEM BEHIND TWO MORE TIMES, HE GOT OUT TWO OTHER AMERICANS, BOTH OF THEM WERE STILL IN JAIL.

IF YOU ASK THE NAMAZI FAMILY, IS THERE PROFOUND DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE POLICY OF ENGAGEMENT AND THE POLICY OF MAXIMUM PRESSURE.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL, THESE ARE THE SAME POLICIES.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS ONCE THE HOSTAGE HAS BEEN TAKEN, IT IS GAME OVER FOR UNITED STATES AND OTHER COUNTRIES.

THERE ARE NO EASY ANSWERS, THE REASON WHY HOSTAGES KEEP BEING TAKEN IS BECAUSE ROGUE STATES HAVE BEEN SHOWN EVERY SINGLE TIME THAT WHEN THEY GRAB A HOSTAGE, THERE IS NO CONSEQUENCE AND EVENTUALLY, ALTHOUGH WE COME KICKING AND SCREAMING, WE EVENTUALLY MAKE A DEAL.

WE HAVE TO DO THIS IN A DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT WAY UP WE WANT TO END THIS IS JUST EICHEL.

>> WE SPOKE TO THAT IN A STATEMENT AS WELL, WHAT DO YOU THINK THROUGH HIS STATEMENT HE PAY TRIBUTE TO THE REMAINING PRISONERS, THE DOZENS AND HUNDREDS THAT WERE LEFT?

IRANIANS WHO JUST WANT THEIR OWN FREEDOMS, HE TALKED ABOUT WANTING TO LIE ON THE GRASS AND HAVE THIS ON HIS FACE, BREATHE FRESH AIR.

WHAT WILL THE IMMEDIATE SITUATION BE WHEN THEY GET TO THE UNITED STATES?

APPARENTLY THEY HAVE ACCESS TO MENTAL HEALTH FACILITIES, REINTRODUCTION PROGRAM.

>> WELL, HOSTAGES WILL BE IN THREE DAYS OF TREATMENT AT A MILITARY HOSPITAL IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA.

THIS IS AN EXTENDED STAY, AND A VALUED -- HOW THEY NEED TO BE TREATED, THEY WILL BE DOING IN THE D.C. AREA.

SIAMAK NAMAZI CAME OUT TODAY, THE MOM AND WIFE CAME OUT.

SHE'S BEEN THE HIDDEN HERO GOING ON FOR SO MANY YEARS BECAUSE SHE'S THE ONE WHO STAYED IN IRAN WHEN SHE HEARD THEY WERE TAKEN HOSTAGE, SHE HAD TO TAKE CARE OF HER HUSBAND BECAUSE HE HAD A LOT OF SERIOUS HEALTH CHALLENGES.

HE WAS ABLE TO GET OUT.

HE WANTED TO BE THERE.

THIS ENTIRE TIME, SHE HAS BEEN REPEATEDLY VISITED BY THE REVOLUTIONARY GUARD CORPS AND TERRORIZED OVER YEARS AND YEARS.

THIS NIGHTMARE IS OVER FOR HER TOO.

>> THE WIFE OF MORAD TAHBAZ CAME OUT AS WELL HE CAME OUT WITH HER HUSBAND.

WERE THOSE TWO WOMEN FORBIDDEN FROM LEAVING?

>> I CANNOT SPEAK FOR MORAD TAHBAZ'S WIFE, SHE WAS NEVER BITTEN BUT WE ARE ONLY CONCERNED THAT COULD HAPPEN AT ANY MOMENT IN TIME, WE NEVER TALKED ABOUT HER IN PUBLIC OVER THE ENTIRE TIME THE NAMAZI'S WERE DETAINED, WE ASKED THEM TO DO THE SAME.

I THINK OBVIOUSLY, THE NAMAZI'S WILL HAVE TO RESTART THEIR LIVES, SIAMAK NAMAZI MOST ESPECIALLY.

THE ELDERLY NAMAZI'S HAD RETIRED TO IRONIC, THEY WERE DUAL NATIONALS AND WANTED TO RETIRE.

WITH THEIR GRANDCHILDREN, WHILE THEY WERE STILL IN HIGH SCHOOL.

ALL LOST, SO WHILE THIS IS A JOYOUS DAY IN CERTAIN WAYS, IT IS UNDOUBTEDLY BITTERSWEET AND THERE IS A LONG ROAD AHEAD.

>> IT IS INDEED, SO MUCH MORE TO TALK ABOUT AND WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE STORY.

JARED GESENER, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

WE TURN TO THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY IN NEW YORK AS WORLD LEADERS GATHER FOR THEIR ANNUAL SUMMIT, THEY FACE CASCADING CHALLENGES FROM THE WAR IN UKRAINE TO THE CRITICAL CLIMATE CRISIS.

I SAT DOWN WITH U.S. SECRETARY- GENERAL AONTONIO GUTERRES IN THE SECURITY COUNCIL ITSELF TO HEAR ABOUT THE CHALLENGES AND ISSUES AND HIS FRUSTRATION OF THE GEOPOLITICAL PARALYSIS IS WHICH IS PALPABLE AS YOU'LL HEAR IN THIS INTERVIEW.

>> WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM.

>> IT IS A GREAT PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU.

>> WHAT IS YOUR BIGGEST PRIORITY FOR THE GLOBAL GATHERING, THIS ANNUAL GATHERING?

>> RESCUE DEVELOPMENT GOALS, AS YOU KNOW YOU YEARS AGO IN AGREEMENT IN ALL COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD TO DEFINE WHAT IS A BLUEPRINT -- OF THE PROBLEMS OF POVERTY, CLIMATE, OCEANS, GOVERNANCE.

THIS IS SOMETHING WITH CLEAR OBJECTIVES, CLEAR GOALS, CLEAR TARGETS TO 2030.

THE TRUTH IS THAT THE SITUATION ESPECIALLY DEVELOPING COUNTRIES AT THE PRESENT MOMENT IS DRAMATIC.

THEIR FINANCIAL SITUATION IS DRAMATIC, THEY HAVE NO ACCESS TO RESOURCES I NEEDED TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

IT'S A STEP IN EDUCATION FOR THEIR CHILDREN.

THIS MEANS THAT REFORMS INTERNATIONAL ARCHITECTURE.

THE NUMBER OF IMPORTANT MEASURES TO MAKE BANKS DO MORE FOR DEVELOPING COUNTRIES.

THIS MEANS FINDING NEW RESOURCES AND MULTIPLYING THE RESOURCES THAT EXIST.

AT THE SAME TIME, ASKING COUNTRIES TO HAVE GOOD GOVERNANCE AND FIGHT CORRUPTION.

TO ALIGN THOSE RESOURCES WITH THOSE DEVELOPED SUSTAINABLE GOVERNMENT GOALS.

EDUCATION, HEALTH, FOOD SECURITY, AND ALL OTHER ASPECTS IN WHICH WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE IN THE WORLD SUFFER MUCH LESS THAN WHAT IS -- >> YOU JUST OUTLINED A MASSIVE TASK BUT AS YOU RIGHTLY SAY, THE WORLD DID PROMISE TO MEET THOSE GOALS, I WANT TO ASK YOU BECAUSE HERE WE ARE SITTING IN UN SECURITY COUNCIL, THIS IS WHERE THE DECISIONS GET MADE ON A LOT OF THIS OR DON'T.

I'M GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT.

I SEE YOU AGITATED SITTING IN THIS ROOM, IT CAUSING SOME PALPITATIONS.

AT THE G-20, YOU CALLED OUT GLOBAL FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS LIKE THE WORLD BANK, OUTDATED, DYSFUNCTIONAL, THE SAME CAN BE SAID OF UNITED NATION SECURITY COUNCIL.

HOW MUCH EXECUTIVE POWER DO YOU ACTUALLY HAVE IN THIS ROOM AND WHAT WOULD YOU -- WHY DOES IT MAKE YOU ANGRY?

>> NO POWER AT ALL.

THIS HAS NO POWER AND NO MONEY, BUT WE HAVE THIS VOICE CAN BE LOVED, I HAVE THE OBLIGATION TO MAKE IT BE LOUD, WE HAVE SOME GOVERNING POWER.

WE HAVE DIFFERENT TACTICS, NOT ONLY COUNTRIES BUT THE PRIVATE SECTOR.

SOCIETY, WOMEN AND YOUTH ORGANIZATIONS, SCIENTIFIC EXPERTS, THE ACADEMIA.

THE POWER IS IN THE STATES.

THE EXERCISE OF THE POWER IS TO BE BLOCKED, WE HAVE A LEVEL OF DIVISION AMONG SUPERPOWERS THAT HAS NO PRECEDENT THE SECOND WORLD WAR.

EVEN THE COLD WAR, THINGS WERE MORE PREDICTABLE THAN THEY ARE TODAY.

AT THAT TIME, THERE WAS THIS TWO BLOCKS BUT EVERYTHING WAS PREDICTABLE BETWEEN THEM.

WHEN CRISIS WILL BECOME TODAY, THERE IS A MUCH BIGGER LEVEL OF UNPREDICTABILITY.

>> THERE IS OPEN CONFRONTATION, A PROXY WAR BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND RUSSIA OVER UKRAINE.

>> TODAY IS MUCH MORE SERIOUS AND MUCH MORE UNPREDICTABLE IN MY OPINION.

THE DRAMA IS THE GEOPOLITICAL DIVIDES, I AGREE THE WAR IN UKRAINE HAS DRAMATIZED THE DIVIDE, IT'S PENALIZING DECISIONS THAT WOULD BE ESSENTIAL FOR US TO FACE BIG CHALLENGES.

THERE IS NO SUFFICIENT SOLIDARITY AND MOST EFFICIENT AGREEMENT AMONG KEY MEMBER STATES.

ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, OUGHT TO BRING TOGETHER COUNTRIES TO FIGHT SOME MECHANISM OF GOVERNANCE, ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE WILL BE GOOD FOR HUMANKIND AND NOT A THREAT FOR HUMANKIND, WE WOULD NEED COUNTRIES UNITED MORE THAN EVER, THE GEOPOLITICAL DIVIDES THAT WE HAVE TODAY ARE PENALIZING THE CAPACITY TO RESPOND TO THESE DRAMATIC CHALLENGES, NOT TO MENTION POVERTY, NOT TO MENTION ANGER AND ALL THE OTHERS.

AT LEAST TOP OF MIND THIS WEEK HAS BEEN THE MEETING BETWEEN PRESIDENT PUTIN AND THE LEADER OF NORTH KOREA TALKING ABOUT WEAPONS, SHOWING THEM AROUND WEAPONS, PRODUCTION FACILITIES.

ARE YOU CONCERNED YOU ARE VIOLATING U.S. SANCTIONS, AND TRENDS DURING ANY TYPE OF MILITARY TO NORTH KOREA, HE SAID HE WON'T BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK?

THE.

>> IT IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL THE SANCTIONS ARE RESPECT TO -- RESPECTED.

I STRONGLY HOPE THAT WILL BE THE CASE BECAUSE IF NOT, WE WILL HAVE ANOTHER VERY SERIOUS AND PROBLEM IN THE WORK OF THIS.

THE GUARDIAN OF THE SANCTIONS AS A LIP TO >> CAN I ASK YOU, YOU TALK ABOUT HOW IT'S DIFFICULT FOR THE SECRETARY-GENERAL IN A DAZE WORLD -- TODAY'S WORLD.

YOU DO HAVE POWER AS A MORAL AUTHORITY AND CONVENING POWER, DO YOU USE THAT ENOUGH IN YOUR TENURE?

DO YOU THINK YOU'VE BEEN OUT THERE POUNDING POUNDING YOUR CHEST ENOUGH, THE U.N. CONVENING TABLES, IT HAS NOT HAPPENED.

>> THAT IS AN AREA WHERE WE SIMPLY CAN'T, WE DO NOT CONVINCE THOSE THAT DO NOT WANT TO BE CONVINCED.

IT IS CLEAR THAT THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION SINCE THE AGREEMENT -- THAT HAS BEEN A VERY CLEAR POSITION, IT IS NOT I WOULD SAY DESIRED AS A MEDIATOR.

IT >> BECAUSE WE ARE NOT DESIRED AS A MEDIATOR TO PEACE, THAT'S WHY WE HAVE DEVELOPED A NUMBER OF FORMS OF ACTION.

AS YOU REMEMBER, THERE REALLY IS CIVILIANS.

WE ARE VERY ENGAGED WITH THE INITIATIVE, VERY ENGAGED.

THE HUMAN IS DOING ITS BEST IN ALL AREAS WHERE THE U.N. IS ALLOWED.

>> WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT THE SUSPENSION OF THE BLACK SEA AGREEMENT, THE LACK OF REAL ABILITY TO CONTROL WHAT'S HAPPENING?

>> THAT SUSPENSION IS SOMETHING THAT OF COURSE IS UNDERMINING GLOBAL SECURITY.

GLOBAL FOOD SECURITY, WE ARE WORKING HARD TO REALIZE IT, THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE EASY, WE ARE SEEING AN ESCALATION THAT IS DANGEROUS.

NOT ONLY THE BLACK SEA INITIATIVE WAS SUSPENDED, WE HAVE AVOIDED A NUMBER OF BOMBARDMENTS IN RELATION TO TERMINALS, RELATION TO WAREHOUSES.

THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS THREAT AND IT IS EVEN UNDERMINING OUR EFFORTS.

FACILITATING THE EXPORTS OF KEY ACTORS, EUROPEAN UNION, UNITED STATES WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF THE SANCTIONS BUT MOVING SOME OBSTACLES AND DIFFICULTIES.

AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, OUR APARTMENT -- DEPARTMENT WITH WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THESE KINDS OF BOMBARDMENTS, STARTING TO BE DOUBTFUL ABOUT THE WILL OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION TO COME BACK TO THE BLACK SEA AGREEMENT, THIS UNDERMINES OUR EFFORTS TO SUPPORT THE RUSSIAN EXPORTS OF FOOD THAT WE ALSO NEED TO THE PRESENT SITUATION IS A SITUATION WHERE UNFORTUNATELY, ALL THE EFFORTS THAT WERE MADE TO PUT IN PLACE A MECHANISM THAT WOULD ALLOW MEANINGFUL IMPROVEMENT IN GLOBAL MARKETS OF FOOD TO THE BENEFITS OF EVERYBODY.

ALL THOSE EFFORTS NOW, SEVERELY UNDERMINED.

>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT HUMANITARIAN, I LOVE THE EFFORTS OF THAT KIND.

YOU SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN LIBYA WITH THE BUSTING OF THESE DAMS AFTER THE EARTHQUAKE IN MOROCCO.

THERE WAS A MASSIVE EARTHQUAKE IN SYRIA, IN LIBYA, WHAT CAN THE U.N. DO, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

IT IS SO DYSFUNCTIONAL, WE UNDERSTAND LEADERSHIP DID NOT TAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS, THEY DO NOT WARN PEOPLE ABOUT THIS AND IT IS JUST TERRIBLE, WE SEE FROM OUR CORRESPONDENCE WHAT ARE YOU ABLE TO DO ON THE GROUND?

>> WE HAVE OUR AGENCIES IF THERE IS SOMETHING THAT WORKS WELL IN THE HUMANITARIANS AFTER.

THE COMMISSION FOR REFUGEES.

THESE ARE THINGS WE'RE DOING AROUND THE WORLD.

PEOPLE THINK THE U.N. IS -- IF LOTS OF THINGS, IT IS IN OPERATION THAT IS IN -- DEALING NOW WITH IRAN.

THE U.N. IS PROVIDING FOODS TO PEOPLE HUNGRY ALL OVER THE WORLD, THE U.N. IS SUPPORTING DIFFICULT CIRCUMSTANCES.

THE U.N. IS LOOKING AT THE RIGHTS OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN VERY STRONGLY, IN MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD.

THERE IS ALL THAT ASPECT OF THE U.N. THAT SOMETIMES PEOPLE DO NOT TALK ABOUT, IT'S THE PROBLEM.

I THINK THAT MORE THAN HALF OF HUMANITARIAN INTERNATIONAL -- IT IS GIVING YOU AN IDEA OF ITS IMPORTANCE.

THE PROBLEM CAN ONLY BE SOLVED IF MEMBERS STAYED ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT HAVE MORE POWER.

THE CONSENSUS THAT'S REQUIRED, HOW MUCH DOES THAT HINDER MEANINGFUL PROGRESS ON THE CLIMATE.

YOUR HAIR SHOULD BE ON FIRE FOR THIS, STILL WE ARE FALLING SHORT.

WHY?

>> WE NEED TO HAVE A SOLID AGREEMENT.

THE EMERGING ECONOMIES TO MAKE SURE WE ARE UNABLE TO REDUCE EMISSIONS, WE ARE GOING TO FACE DRAMATIC CHALLENGES.

YOU SEE TEMPERATURES RISING.

THE HOTTEST SUMMER EVER, THE SUN IS -- HOTTEST MONTHS EVER, YOU SEE THE SEA LEVEL RISE ACCELERATING.

WHAT'S HAPPENING IN GREENLAND, THAT IS EXTREMELY WORDING -- WORRYING.

ALL THE FORECASTS MADE ARE BEING BITTEN BECAUSE THINGS ARE GETTING WORSE THAN THAT.

EMISSIONS ARE STILL RISING.

YOU HAVE 80% OF THE ADMISSIONS.

OUT TO JOIN THEIR EFFORTS AND TECHNOLOGY.

WE WILL BE ABLE TO REDUCE EMISSIONS.

THERE IS A CERTAIN KIND OF DEVELOPED COUNTRIES WILL SAY.

IT'S TIME FOR EMERGING ECONOMIES TO DO THE SAME, YOU HAVE POLLUTED FOR DECADES.

NOW IS THE TIME TO HAVE SOME MARGIN FOR OUR PEOPLE.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT THERE IS NO ROOM, ALL OF THEM ACCELERATE THEIR EFFORTS, THIS REQUIRES A LEVEL OF DIALOGUE THAT UNFORTUNATELY DOES NOT EXIST.

>> FINALLY, GIVEN EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT AGE AND BIDEN.

ARE YOU TALK ABOUT -- COMFORTABLE TELLING ME HOW OLD YOU ARE?

>> 70.

>> DO YOU BELIEVE IN AGREE WITH, HAVE ANY COMMENT ON THE MITT ROMNEY REASON?

HE STANDING DOWN AND WHAT IT ANOTHER TERM AS SENATOR BECAUSE HE WANTS TO GIVE WAY TO A NEW GENERATION OF LEADERS.

EVERYONE IS COMPLAINING THAT BIDEN IS TOO OLD TO SEEK RE-ELECTION.

WHAT IS YOUR VIEW ON THIS?

>> I THINK IT IS -- IT DEPENDS ON EACH PERSON.

I KNOW PEOPLE WHO ARE 40 YEARS OLD THAT ARE VERY OLD MENTALLY, I KNOW PEOPLE WHO ARE 80 AND 90 THAT ARE ABSOLUTELY SHARP AND REMARKABLE.

THIS IS I THINK -- YOU CANNOT HAVE A LAW.

HAVING SAID SO, I CAN GUARANTEE I WILL NOT BE RUNNING.

>> SECRETARY-GENERAL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>>> WE HAD TO GO THERE, TURNING OUT TO THE INTERNATIONAL EFFORT TO FIGHT A.I.D.S.. 20 YEARS AGO, PRESIDENT BUSH INTRODUCED ONE THE MOST SUCCESSFUL FOREIGN AID PROGRAMS.

THE PLAN FOR A.I.D.S.

RELIEF HAS SAVES 25 MILLION LIVES BUT IT IS NOW UNDER THREAT, HOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE OPPOSING FUNDING WHICH EXPIRES AT THE END OF THE MONTH OVER ABORTION POLITICS.

STEPHEN THRASHER IS IN HIV AND A.I.D.S.

CALLER THAT JOINS US TO DISCUSS THE GLOBAL IMPACT OF THIS RELIEF AND ITS REMOVAL.

>> THANK YOU, STEPHEN THRASHER, THANKS SO MUCH.

SOMETHING THAT IS INTERESTING THAT HAS HAD BIPARTISAN SUPPORT HAS BEEN FUNDING, FOR THOSE THAT DO NOT KNOW.

IT IS THE PRESIDENT'S EMERGENCY PLAN FOR A.I.D.S.

RELIEF THAT WAS SET UP BACK IN 2003.

FROM PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, IT HAS BEEN APPROVED AND REAPPROVED OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AUTHORIZED AND IS COMING UP FOR A REAUTHORIZATION SOON.

YET THIS TIME, IT IS FACING A LITTLE BIT MORE PARTISAN OBSTRUCTION.

WHY?

>> AS YOU SAID, THAT WAS A BIPARTISAN EFFORT THAT HAS BEEN PASSED MANY TIMES, HOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE HOLDING IT HOSTAGE RIGHT NOW.

THEY ARE NOT RENEWING THE FUNDING, THEY'RE TRYING TO USE IT AS A WAY TO SHAKEDOWN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND MAKE THEM PUT ABORTION RESTRICTIONS ON COUNTRIES THAT ARE RECEIVING THIS AID WHICH WOULD BE A DISASTER.

IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT EVEN THOUGH SOME VERY POWERFUL PEOPLE HAVE WEIGHED IN AND LOOTING GEORGE W. BUSH HIMSELF.

THEY ARE NOT ONLY TRYING TO GET RID OF PEPFAR FUNDING WHICH DEALS WITH U.S. FUNDING OF A.I.D.S.

ABROAD, THEY ARE TRYING TO GET RID OF $700 MILLION WORTH OF A.I.D.S.

FUNDING DOMESTICALLY WITHIN THE UNITED STATES AS WELL, THAT IS PART OF THE LARGER ATTACK.

ON LGBTQ RIGHTS, ON BODILY RIGHTS.

>> I WANT TO GET TO DOMESTIC FUNDING, WHERE THE KEY CONCERNS FROM REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS SMITH OF NEW JERSEY.

HE IS THE CHAIR OF A HOUSE PANEL THAT OVERSEES PEPFAR, HE HAS SUPPORTED ITS REAUTHORIZATION BEFORE BUT AS THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS NOW INJECTED ABORTION RIGHTS INTO THE PROGRAM.

TELL ME ABOUT THIS.

>> IT PAINS ME TO SAY THIS, BUT HE'S CORRECT IN THIS INSTANCE.

WE GET FUNDING FROM TRIAZOLE ACROSS THE WORLD, UKRAINE GETS FUNDING, SOME COUNTRIES IN SOUTHEAST ASIA INCLUDING VIETNAM, A WIDE VARIETY OF COUNTRIES THAT HAVE MANY DIFFERENT APPROACHES TO ABORTION.

I TEACH A CLASS CALL AMERICAN EMPIRE, HOW DO YOU ASK IS TRYING TO INFLUENCE POLICY ABROAD , HOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE TRYING TO HAVE DISASTROUS EFFECTS.

THEY ARE NOW TRYING TO FORCE ABORTION RIGHTS OR THE DIALBACK OF ABORTION RIGHTS IN MANY DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.

THESE COUNTRIES AS I SAID HAD VERY DIFFERENT APPROACHES IN VERY DIFFERENT PLACES.

IF YOU ARE SUCCESSFUL, IT WOULD HAVE REALLY DISASTROUS IMPACT BECAUSE THE SAME KINDS OF ORGANIZATIONS IN THE SAME KINDS OF PEOPLE WHO DO WORK AROUND ABORTION ARE DOING THE MOST IMPORTANT WORK AROUND SDI PREVENTION AND HIV A.I.D.S.

PREVENTION, I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING THAT GEORGE W. BUSH REALLY SIDESTEPPED AND HAVE QUOTES ABOUT THIS PROGRAM BEING PRO-LIFE, HE DID NOT WEIGH IN ON ABORTION AND OTHER WAYS, HE JUST SAID THAT IS NOT WORTH DISCUSSING IN THIS CONVERSATION.

THAT IS TRUE.

>>> THE HEAD OF PEPFAR 'S TOLD THE ASSOCIATED PRESS THAT HE KNEW OF KNOWING AND IN WHICH MONEY WAS GOING TO DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY FUND ABORTION SERVICE IS.

WHAT IS THE WORK OF THIS PROGRAM LOOKING LIKE ON THE GROUND?

>> IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WE HAVE IN COMMON, IT GET THE DRUGS INTO BODIES, WE HAVE MEDICATION THAT HAVE SUCCESSFULLY DEALT WITH HIV SINCE 1995.

IN 1996, THE UNITED STATES RATE OF DEATH WENT DOWN DRAMATICALLY, WE STARTED SAVING TENS OF THOUSANDS, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF LIVES BECAUSE WE HAD ACCESS TO THAT MEDICATION, NOBODY ELSE HAD ACCESS IN MUCH OF THE WORLD FOR ANOTHER SEVEN YEARS, EVEN AS A.I.D.S.

DEATHS WENT DOWN TURNING AND 96, THAT KEPT GOING ON UNTIL 2003, 2004 UP TO ABOUT 2 1/2 MILLION DEATHS A YEAR, IT WAS BECAUSE THE DRUGS ARE SIMPLY TOO EXPENSIVE FOR A POOR COUNTRY AND MANY MODERN INCOME COUNTRIES.

IT MADE THE DRUGS AVAILABLE FOR FREE IN SOME PLACES FOR MUCH LESS MONEY, WORKED WITH THE DRUG COMPANIES TO BRING THE COST DOWN.

HAD A VERY -- STRUCTURAL ISSUES AROUND A.I.D.S.

THAT MAY STILL BE ADDRESSED.

ON A CELLULAR LEVEL, IT GOT DRUGS INTO BODIES, THAT SAVE TENS OF MILLIONS OF LIVES.

NOBODY SHOULD BE IT WAS AS THE U.S. WAS LOOKING ABROAD, THEY REALLY NEGLECTED HIV AND A.I.D.S.

IN THE UNITED STATES.

THAT COULD HAPPEN AGAIN AROUND PEPFAR, NOT CUT AROUND REINSTATING THE DOMESTIC FUNDING.

>> WEARS THE ABORTION FEAR COMING IN, OR ABORTION FUNDING FEAR?

>> SO MUCH WITH THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS, THIS IS JUST A BONE THEY WILL NOT LET GO OF, THEY HAVE SEEN THEY GOT AFTER MANY DECADES OF ORGANIZING, THEY HAVE GOTTEN ROVERS WEIGHED -- ROE VERSUS WADE REVEALED, IT'S NO LONGER WORKING FOR THEM.

THEY HAVE NOTHING TO GET THEIR PEOPLE THAT WERE COMING OUT TO VOTE FOR THEM TO DO SO ANYMORE, THEY WON THAT FIGHT BUT IT'S NOT WORKING FOR THEM.

THEY ARE LOOKING FOR OTHER PLACES TO DO A.

THEY ALSO I THINK THIS HAS TO BE READ IN THE CONTEXT OF THEIR GENERAL ANTI-LGBTQ HATRED THAT THEY ARE WAGING UPON THE WORLD, THERE IS MUCH AS THEY CAN IN UNITED STATES.

THEY ARE LOOKING AT WAYS TO PUNISH LGBTQ PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD, THIS IS ONE WAY.

HIV AND A.I.D.S.

IS NOT ONLY A FACT IN GAY ENTRANCE PEOPLE, THEIR COUNTRIES INCLUDING SOME OF THOSE WHO RECEIVE MONEY TRANSFER FOR THE MAJORITY OF CASES HAPPEN THROUGH INJECTION DRUG USE OR VERTICAL TRANCE MISSION FROM PARENT TO CHILD, DURING PREGNANCY.

IT IS A VIRUS AND A DISEASE THAT AFFECTS LGBTQ PEOPLE DISPROPORTIONATELY.

THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN EXPORTING MANY LGBTQ -- ANTI-LGBTQ LOSS OF HER U.S. MISSIONARY WORK, POLICIES, SO I THINK THIS IS ANOTHER PART OF IT.

THAT'S PART OF WHAT IS HAPPENING AROUND THE A.I.D.S.

COMPONENT.

>> SOME OF THE MOST RECENT ROUNDS OF CRITIQUES OF PEPFAR SEEMS TO BE COMING FROM A REPORT THAT WAS AUTHORED BY CONSERVATIVE THINK TANK CALLED THE AND HERITAGE FOUNDATION, THE HIV-AIDS IS PRIMARILY A "LIFESTYLE" DISEASE.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM IN FRAMING IT THAT WAY?

>> LIFESTYLE IS A DOG WHISTLE ON A COUPLE OF LEVELS, FIRST THING ABOUT BEING GAY OR TRANCE IS A LIFESTYLE, SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE CHOOSE LIKE A SHIRT, THAT'S ONE LEVEL AND THEN TRYING TO SAY THAT PEOPLE GET A.I.D.S.

BECAUSE OF THEIR LIFESTYLE AND THE THINGS THEY CHOOSE TO DO.

THAT IS A REALLY UNFAIR THING TO SAY ON MULTIPLE LEVELS, CERTAINLY LOOKING ABROAD PEOPLE GET HIV AND A.I.D.S.

BECAUSE OF STRUCTURAL ISSUES, ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE HAVE SO MANY CASES IS BECAUSE INCARCERATION AND HOMELESSNESS ARE MAJOR DRIVERS OF WHY PEOPLE GET HIV AND WHY IT PROGRESSES ONTO A.I.D.S., SO MANY COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD ESPECIALLY THOSE -- THEY ARE NOT GETTING THE SUPPORT THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO STOP THIS TERRIBLE VIRUS FROM MOVING ON BETWEEN PEOPLE.

WHEN SOMEONE GETS HIV MEDICATION, THAT BECOMES WHAT BECOMES UNDETECTABLE, THEY CANNOT PASS ON THE VIRUS TO OTHER PEOPLE, WHEN THE MEDICATION WAS AVAILABLE, PEOPLE CANNOT AFFORD IT AND SO MUCH OF THE WORLD, THE VIRUS IS MOVING THROUGH EXTREMELY NORMATIVE HUMAN ACTIVITIES.

THE MOST NORMATIVE BEING SEX , THERE ARE COUNTRIES THAT RECEIVE MONEY FROM PEPFAR, THE MAJOR WAY PEOPLE BECOME HIV POSITIVE, IS THERE VERTICAL TRANSMISSION GETTING IT THROUGH THEIR PARENT WHILE THEY ARE PREGNANT, THEY ARE BORN WITH HIV-AIDS.

IT'S OF COURSE, THERE IS NOTHING IN THE LIFESTYLE OF A NEWBORN BABY FOR THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE SO OBSESSED THEY SAY WITH THE UNBORN.

THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT THEIR LIFESTYLE THAT MAKES THEM BECOME HIV POSITIVE.

EVEN THE ADULTS, IS THROUGH COMPLETELY NORMATIVE HUMAN ACTIVITIES.

WRITING IT OFF AS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE CHANGED BY LIFESTYLE IS UNFAIR, STIGMATIZING, AND SIDESTEPS RESPONSIBILITY WE HAVE TO BRING THIS EPIDEMIC CLOSE IF THERE IS THE POLITICAL WILL TO DO SO.

THE MEDICATION IS THERE.

>> REPUBLICANS ARE CALLING FOR THIS AUTHORIZATION TO NOT BE ONCE EVERY FIVE YEARS BUT EVERY YEAR, IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH THAT?

>> IT'S A SIMILAR DYNAMIC WITH THINGS HAPPENING IN UNITED STATES WITH THE DEBT CEILING.

EVERY TIME THAT THESE KINDS OF THINGS CAN BE HELD HOSTAGE, THEY WILL BE.

A.I.D.S.

AND HIV ARE THINGS THAT TAKE LONG-TERM THINKING, WE ARE STILL IN THE COVEN 19 PANDEMIC.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO THINK ABOUT THIS PANDEMIC BEING OVER EVEN THOUGH WE ARE ONLY ABOUT FOUR YEARS INTO IT BUT FIRST WERE UNAWARE FOR MORE THAN 40 YEARS, STILL A PANDEMIC, STILL KILLING THE BETTER PART OF 1 MILLION PEOPLE FOR A YEAR.

YOU CANNOT THINK ABOUT PLANS TO MITIGATE THAT OR END YEAR TO YEAR TO YEAR AND HAVE THIS BE SOMETHING THAT CAN BE HELD OVER VOTERS HAD IN CONGRESS HIS HEAD EVERY YEAR.

THERE IS AN INDEFINITE PERIOD OF TIME UNTIL THIS EPIDEMIC IS ENDED AND BROUGHT TO CONTROL.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE MIGHT BE FAMILIAR WITH HOW PEPFAR HAS IMPACTED HIV AND A.I.D.S., WHAT ARE THE FUNDING SOURCES, WHAT ARE THE PROGRAMS HERE IN THE UNITED DATE THAT WOULD BE AFFECT DID IF PEPFAR FUNDING WAS DISCONTINUED.

PEPFAR IS ENTIRELY RESPONSIBLE, THERE ARE SEVERAL DOMESTIC PROGRAMS.

THE CARE ACT IS A VERSION OF BASICALLY UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE FOR PEOPLE WITH HIV, IT'S HAD SUCCESS FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN GET IT.

THE PEOPLE WHO MOST NEED IT, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST AT RISK INCLUDING THOSE ARE A AND HOUSED, VERY RARELY CONNECT WITH THE PROGRAM.

PEOPLE WHO ARE INCARCERATED VERY RARELY CONNECT AND GET THE CARE THEY NEED, IT CONTINUES TO MOVE ON.

ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR AND REALLY SUCCESSFUL THINGS WE HAVE DONE IS A PROGRAM CALLED PREP FOR ALL, PEOPLE WHO BECOME POSITIVE OF THE HIV TAKE IT FROM THE MEDICATION, ANTIVIRAL MEDICATION.

PREP WHICH STANDS FOR PRE- EXPOSURE PROPHYLAXIS IS A DRUG YOU CAN TAKE EVERY DAY.

I TAKE IT MYSELF, IT GIVES YOU A SIMILAR MEDICATION BUT IF YOU ENCOUNTER HIV, IT KEEPS IT FROM TAKING HOLD IN YOUR BODY.

CITIES AND STATES, PARTICULARLY CITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY.

SAN FRANCISCO, CHICAGO, HAVE HAD REAL SUCCESS GETTING PREP OUT BROADLY TO POPULATIONS THAT ARE HIGHLY AT RISK.

YOUNG PEOPLE OF COLOR WHO ARE LGBTQ, PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE INSURANCE, TARGETED PREP CAMPAIGNS HAVE BEEN REALLY HELPFUL IN PLACES WHERE HIV HAS BROKEN OUT VIA THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC, AND PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT THINK THEY NEED TO TAKE AN HIV PREVENTION MEDICATION, THAT BECOMES A FACTOR IN WHEN THEY GO INTO A PLACE WHERE HIV IS BREAKING OUT, IT HELPS TRANSMISSIONS FROM HAPPENING.

I DON'T LIKE TO THINK IN SUCH CRUDE ECONOMIC WAYS, THIS IS ACTUALLY A VERY MONIES DATING -- MONEY-SAVING EXPENDITURE BECAUSE IT PEOPLE FROM BECOMING HIV-POSITIVE, IT SAVES MONEY DOWNSTREAM.

THERE ARE LOTS OF CONSERVATIVES WHO DON'T LIKE THE IDEA, THEY THINK IT IS A DRUG THAT MAKES PEOPLE PROMISCUOUS, IT IS ALLOWING PEOPLE TO GET AWAY WITH SOMETHING BY NOT BEING PUNISHED FOR HAVING SEX , TAKING AWAY ANY OF THESE TOOLS WOULD ACTUALLY ALLOW THE VIRUS TO LOW MUCH MORE, SOME OF IT WOULD FLOW TO PEOPLE WHO ARE AT A HIGH RISK POPULATION, SOME OF IT WOULD JUST MOVE ON TO PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF HIGH-RISK POPULATIONS.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT IT WOULD INCREASE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE GETTING HIV IN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD DIE OF A.I.D.S.

.

IT IS REALLY TERRIBLE SEEMED ENORMOUS ACCESS SOME CITIES HAVE HAD IN BRINGING DOWN TO ALMOST ZERO LEVELS IN POPULATIONS THAT USED TO HAVE HIGH LEVELS OF HIV, IT WOULD BE TERRIBLE TO ROLL THAT BACK AND LET HIV FLOURISH IN THE UNITED STATES MORE THAN MEDICATION COULD ALLOW IT TO STOP.

>>> WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE EFFECTS THAT POLICIES HAVE ON LIVES, I'M REMINDED IN 2015, THERE WAS A NEEDLE EXCHANGE PROGRAM THAT WAS ON -- OPPOSED BY MIKE PENCE OF INDIANA, BECAUSE HE THOUGHT IT CONDONED DRUG USE.

WE SAW VERY RAPIDLY THAT HIV OUTBREAK OF SOMETHING CLOSE TO 200 PEOPLE IN SCOTT COUNTY.

I'M WONDERING WHETHER THERE ARE RIPPLE EFFECTS THAT ARE MEASURABLE WHEN FUNDING DECREASES OVERSEAS ARTEMIS VIC LEE, WHAT WE SEE EPIDEMIOLOGIC HE IN COMMUNITIES.

>> CERTAINLY, HERE'S THE IMPORTANCE OF THINKING ABOUT IMPORTANCE OF HIV.

IN SCOTT COUNTY, AS HE SAID WHEN MIKE PENCE WAS THE GOVERNOR OF HERC HE HAD THE FASTEST HIV OUTBREAK THAT'S EVER BEEN RECORDED IN THE UNITED STATES, CASES, THEY FOUND THE FIRST CASE THAT WOULD VERY QUICKLY UP.

SCHOLARS INCLUDING MY FRIEND, THE YALE EPIDEMIOLOGIST INITIALLY LOOKED AT SOMETHING THAT SORT OF IS DARKLY HUMOROUS, THE QUESTION OF DID THOSE CASES MOVE QUICKLY BECAUSE MIKE PENCE FAMOUSLY SAID HE NEEDED A FEW DAYS TO PRAY ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT TO DO AN EXCHANGE, WHAT THEY FOUND WAS THAT THE CASES DO NOT INCREASE THAT MUCH IN THAT MOMENT, THE MAJOR TRANSMISSIONS THAT HAPPEN QUICKLY, WHY THOSE CASES MOVE SO QUICKLY WAS BECAUSE THERE WAS NO SURVEILLANCE IN THE SOUTHERN HALF OF INDIANA, THE REASON THERE WAS NOT SURVEILLANCE IS BECAUSE THEY HAD BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN RUNNING OUT OF THE STATE, EVERYBODY WHO PROVIDED ABORTION, IT IS THE PEOPLE WHO PROVIDE ABORTION, PLANNED PARENTHOOD CLINICS, THE PRIVATE CLINICS, PUBLIC CLINICS THAT HELP PEOPLE GET ABORTIONS THAT ARE ALSO DOING SEXUAL EDITED SECTION PREVENTION, STI EDUCATION, LGBTQ SEXUAL EDUCATION.

THEY ARE DOING HIV PREVENTION AND HIV TREATMENT.

IF PEPFAR WERE TO BE REPEALED, AND TO STOP ABORTIONS FROM HAPPENING IN OTHER COUNTRIES, HERE IN THE UNITED STATES AS DOBBS CAME IN AND ROWE WAS REPEALED.

WE SEE CLINICS THAT PROVIDE -- THOSE PLACES ARE PRIME TO THE PLACES WHERE HIV.

PEOPLE NEED STIGMATIZED HEALTHCARE INCLUDING ABORTION AND HIV PREVENTION, IF THEY ARE NOT THERE, NOBODY IS DOING THE CASES.

BY THE TIME YOU FIND OUT THERE IS AN HIV CASE, IT COULD HAVE BEEN MOVED INTO MANY CASES WHEN IT DID NOT NEED TO.

>> STEVEN TRASHER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> IT HAS INDEED BROUGHT SO MUCH RELIEF AROUND THE WORLD.

FINALLY TONIGHT, CLIMATE WEEK HAS BEGUN IN NEW YORK, THE ANNUAL SUMMIT TAKES PLACE DURING THIS ASSEMBLY TIME AS WORLD LEADERS CONVERGE ON THE CITY, TENS OF THOUSANDS MARCHED THROUGH MANHATTAN DEMANDING ACTION AND AN END TO FOSSIL FUELS, AT NIGHT, 1000 DRONES WERE LOST OVER THE EAST RIVER NEXT TO THE UNITED NATIONS, THE DRONES SHAPE SHIFTED FROM AMAZONIA WILDLIFE TO A WARNING.

THE WORLD BURNS, WE ARE ASKING WORLD LEADERS ABOUT THIS ALL WEEK REPORTING FROM THE U.N., THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT, IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT, SIGN UP FOR A NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.