- [Announcer] PBS Utah presents the "Governor's Monthly News Conference," an exchange between Utah reporters and Governor Spencer Cox.

(inspiring instrumental music) - Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

It's great to be with you again.

I appreciate you joining us for our monthly news conference.

Before we get into questions, I just wanted to take a second to talk about one of the top concerns in our state.

This time last year, my top concerns were water and drought, and obviously still a high concern, but I'm grateful for the amazing winter we had last year and the incredible work that's being done across the state to help us conserve more water.

Right now the issue that is my top concern and keeps me up the most at night is the state of housing, and especially affordable housing in our state.

Right now, Utah ranks eighth in the nation with the highest median sales price.

From 2008 to 2018, median home prices were considered moderately affordable, which was one of the reasons for our success here in the state, but in the last five years, we know that housing prices have risen significantly across the country and especially here in Utah.

There are lots of different reasons for that.

Obviously, we're one of the fastest growing states.

We've seen interest rates rise, the ability of new construction.

We know we need more housing in basically every category.

As state government, we're doing a lot to try to change that and we're going to be doing more, hopefully over the course of the next year.

We've had several bills that passed last year that are just being implemented now.

We're watching those very closely to see what kind of an impact they have.

But there are certainly other things that definitely need to be done.

We're working to support offsite housing, building housing components such as interior walls and trusses in a manufacturing facility, which saves both time and money.

So looking at new ways and quicker ways to construct housing.

Streamlining land use and development approval processes statewide.

That's working with local governments to do that.

We appreciate our local mayors, city councils, planning commissions that are engaged in these efforts.

We're looking at exploring shared equity ownership models, so different funding and ownership models.

And of course, we created a first-time home buyer down payment program last year, which has been implemented.

We'll be getting updates on those numbers and sharing those as it moves forward to, again, see how successful that program is.

We also know the government alone cannot solve the housing problems.

The private sector's a very important piece of the puzzle, and this week we were able to announce a wonderful partnership between Ivory Innovations and the Call to Action Foundation, the Maggelet family's foundation, that will bring 850 units online in seven different communities.

And while that's not a huge number compared to the scope of the problem, it is significant and we think a model that can be used and utilized with other family foundation and other non-profits and private sector donors.

We have this proud tradition of families and businesses giving back, and we really want to thank the Maggelet and Ivory families for the great work that they are doing in this space.

We appreciate our private sector partners and we'll continue to work moving policy solutions forward to help reduce the cost of housing here in the state of Utah.

With that, I'm sure you have some questions.

And so, I'm ready to go.

- Governor, what are your thoughts on Mitt Romney choosing not to seek a second term?

And I know you're not running, but is there a candidate that you would back at this point, a Republican candidate running for US Senate?

- Sure, it's still early, obviously.

So let me take the first part of that question.

I appreciate Senator Romney and the sacrifices that he has made to serve our state and our country.

I think he's done it with dignity and respect.

He's a dear friend and we've been very lucky to have his leadership in the US Senate.

I think he would've made an amazing president of our country as well.

We never got a chance to see that happen.

But I'm grateful for his six years of service here in Utah.

I was just back in Massachusetts at their state capitol.

Of course, he served as a Governor there as well.

And so he's had a long history of service and I'm grateful for that.

Obviously, that's a decision he had to make.

I respect that decision.

And I truly respect his reasonings for deciding not to run anymore.

It's something I've talked about often.

I do think that one of the problems in our country today is that people stay in politics for too long.

These jobs were never meant to be lifelong callings or lifelong careers.

I think our very first president of the country set the standard for that, stepping aside when he felt it was time to give others opportunities.

And that siren call is very strong and too many people think that the country can't survive without them.

And so to have someone set an example of saying, "You know what, I'm in my mid 70s.

I've got other things.

I've got family, things that are more important," that's a great model for the rest of us and something I've certainly talked about.

It's why I've said that I won't serve more than two terms as governor.

Not that I don't think I could do it and do a great job and maybe, of course, in my own mind I could do it better than some other people, but I'm not indispensable and there are other great people that deserve an opportunity to serve.

So I commend him for that.

I think it's a great example.

We have two candidates running for president that I wish would follow that example.

And so, hopefully, we'll get some new choices there as well.

As far as a potential replacement, it's no secret that I'm very close to our current Speaker of the House who announced that he is going to be resigning from that position, I think effective November, mid-November.

And he has an exploratory committee.

I don't think it's any secret that he's going to be running for this seat.

And I think he's the type of person that would make an incredible senator.

I believe he's one of the best Speakers of the House that we've ever had in this state and it's been an honor to work with him.

And so I'm excited that he's running for that.

There are potentially other people out there as well.

So we're, you know, we're obviously going to wait and see.

I think January is when, we moved from March to January here in the state of Utah when people get to sign that paperwork to say that they're actually going to run.

So we'll see what happens between now and January.

- So no endorsement yet for Brad Wilson?

- Well, I would say yes, a tentative endorse.

I love Brad, I just love Brad.

I mean, you know, I don't know what we call that.

I don't know.

He doesn't need my endorsement.

He hasn't asked for my endorsement.

It's just I really like Brad and think he would be really good, but right now, you know, I don't even know who's running yet.

So we'll obviously make those decisions if he asks down the road.

- What do you make of the situation involving Tim Ballard?

- What do I make of it?

I, well, I make of it what I've read in the media.

You know, I don't know Tim Ballard.

I think I met him passing through an airport once.

I know he was terminated from OUR, which I thought was very interesting that the organization that he created, was the face of, was the, you know, the hero of, that they would, they would terminate him and remove themselves from him.

And so I wondered like everybody else what was happening.

There had to be something out there.

And then, of course, to have the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints issue a statement like that, a very strong statement, very rare that they do something like that.

I know there was a lot of pushback like did this really come from the church?

Did it come from a rogue spokesperson?

I reached out to the church personally and was assured that that did come from the church, that it had been vetted through all the normal church processes.

And then to have, again, allegations.

Everybody is due their day in court and we believe in a system where people are innocent until proven guilty.

The allegations though of several different women are incredibly disturbing and just awful, and if true, just unconscionable.

And so that's, what do I make of it?

It's very disturbing and I hope they're not true.

I truly hope that those allegations aren't true, but it would seem like now we have multiple organizations that are speaking out and that's deeply troubling.

- Do you have any concerns with his relationship with Utah Attorney General Sean Reyes?

Tim said that they're like this.

- Well, I, again, I'll let Attorney General Reyes respond to those, those questions.

I don't know.

I know that from the very beginning of his time as Attorney General, that Sean has cared deeply about preventing human trafficking.

And I, that's, to me, the troubling part of this is that, that human trafficking is real and it's just, it's awful.

And we should be doing everything possible as a state, as a nation, as a community to prevent that, to prevent human trafficking.

And so I hope that no one person is bigger than that cause, and I'm grateful for the Attorney General's commitment to preventing that from happening.

And I, you know, again, I don't know that much about their relationship other than I know Sean had said that, that he had someone who was considering running for the Senate that he would be supporting.

And I think everybody assumed that that was Time Ballard.

I don't know if he's, if that's changed in light of what's, what's come forward.

- Back to Senator Romney for a moment.

He told his biographer that he's been spending $5,000 a day, which is essentially $2 million a year on security to keep supporters of former President Trump from attacking him and his family.

Any thoughts on that?

And what's going on with your personal security?

Have you been threatened in the same way?

- Yeah, so I read that as well in the McKay Coppins' biography, the piece that he did.

And it was very disturbing, but not surprising.

And I can tell you that just last week as part of our national governor's meetings, we had an expert, her name is Rachel Kleinfeld, who talked to us about declining democracies.

And one of the hallmarks of declining democracies are threats against public officials.

And I jotted down just a few of the things that she noted.

That threats against members of Congress had actually increased from 2016 to 2021 tenfold.

I repeat, in just from 2016 to 2021, threats against members of Congress increased tenfold.

Since 2016, threats against federal judges had doubled, and 15% of local officials report having received threats last year.

She said in San Diego it was 75% of local officials reported being threatened last year.

So yes, I've received threats as well, and I think a lot of public officials here in the state of Utah have received those threats.

I'm grateful for our security teams that work hard, not just for me, but for all local officials.

Anytime there's a threat, that gets reported to the Department of Public Safety and they investigate those threats and do everything possible to prevent those threats from turning into something far worse.

So yeah, this is... Guys, I'm not usually prone to hyperbole.

I guess every politician is a little bit, but from what this, what Rachel Kleinfeld, who studies failed states and failed democracies over time and across the world.

And what she told us and what she's written in her report, and I encourage you all to Google it, look it up and read it, is that the United States is headed down a very dark path, and we're further down that path than I think most people realize.

And that there is a very real chance over the, you know, the next couple decades of a complete failure of our democratic institutions, of our republic.

And I take that very seriously.

And if we don't wake up as a society, if we don't stop playing with fire, stop the hatred that we're exhibiting towards our fellow Americans with whom we have some disagreements, we could end up in a very dark place.

And we're seeing that.

Again, always the kind of the hallmarks of that are a rise in political violence and threats toward elected officials.

- So do you think specifically we're in a declining democracy?

- I do.

Yeah, I do, and it scares the hell outta me and it should everybody else.

And again, I think it's a wake up call to all of us, and we all have a role to play.

Again, political leaders are really good at using fear to divide us.

I'm hoping today to use a little bit of fear to unite us because there, Pew has a new study that just came out.

I was just looking at it on my way up here.

I don't have all the numbers in front of me, but I think it said 65% of of Americans were exhausted with politics today.

Only, I think it was like 3%, something like that, think that our democratic institutions, our government and politics is functioning very well.

They had some of the lowest numbers of all time when it comes to our belief in the federal government, in the Supreme Court, in all of these institutions that are so important.

And in a very real way what every one of us does every day, posting on social media attacking other people, attacking people instead of ideas, we are adding to that.

And so it's, I, you know, I don't expect that that politicians are gonna solve this for us, but politicians are a reflection of all of us and we all need to do better.

And I include myself in that.

- Okay, we do have some remote reporters joining us.

Chris, go ahead with your question.

- Thank you, and governor, good morning, governor.

- [Governor] Good morning.

- You mentioned the housing situation at the very start, and you listed a few things.

What kind of things can be done to increase wages?

Because in a place like St. George, most people make far less than even a minimum amount to have, for a home loan.

I know you don't think government has any kind of answer completely, but what can be done to increase wages to catch up with housing prices?

- Well, I, again, I don't know that we're gonna be able to do... That's why I think decreasing housing prices is going to be much more effective in making that happen.

We have seen the largest wage increase in our state's history over the last couple years.

I, you know, people who used to be making minimum wage now are making $15 an hour, $16 an hour.

Fast food restaurants are paying 18 to $20 an hour.

We are seeing significant increases in wages in the state and across the country, but it's just not keeping up and it can't keep up with the inflationary rates of other things.

Again, housing is what I'm focused on, but it's impacting, it's impacting food, it's impacting automobiles, transportation, it's impacting energy prices as well.

And so there are so many others where even though we are seeing rampant increases in wages, we're seeing even higher rates of inflation.

And that's where, that's where I think government can play a role is really to help bring down the cost of housing.

And that's why we're just so focused on, on that piece, on making sure we get more.

I will say, so it's not just a St. George issue, although I'm sure it's especially acute there.

But right now, and again, we're eighth and we're kind of in the middle of a group of states, but it's about 75% of people today in the state of Utah.

It's 80% in some of our surrounding states, 88% in some of our surrounding states that could not afford to buy a median priced home today.

Now many of them already have a home, right?

So they're not directly impacted, but if they had to buy a home today with what they're making, they wouldn't be able to do it.

And so that's why I'm trying to elevate this as a concern.

Again, I know the legislature gets it, the Economic Opportunity Commission that I'm a part of with the Speaker and the President, this has been a focus of ours now for three years running, and our local governments play a big role in this.

But that's the biggest issue.

I, as governor, I can't raise wages.

I mean, even if we doubled the minimum wage today, it wouldn't impact hardly anyone because, again, very few places are actually paying minimum wage today in the state of Utah as that has changed over the past year.

- [Moderator] Okay, and Chris has a follow up.

- Yeah, just to follow up on that.

What has been talked about here are the NIMBY's, not in my back yard.

And a lot of the answer that you mentioned, that you've mentioned for the housing situation is more density, more housing.

How do you overcome that with the people who don't want to have more housing in their backyard?

- Yeah, no, you're absolutely right, Chris.

That is the bigger problem.

I agree completely, and it's something that, that every state is dealing with right now.

We talk about it with our fellow governors often.

Everybody, it's this, it's this dichotomy.

Like everyone knows that we need cheaper housing.

We need more density in the right places.

We need, we want our kids and grandkids to be able to live here and we want to build more houses.

We just don't want them built where we can see them from our back porch or our front yard, right?

And so that's where we're working with cities and towns and trying to balance and understand what role does the state have to play because this is a statewide collective issue versus individual communities where the incentive structure doesn't line up, right?

I mean, we've seen this over and over again where we'll have a city council or somebody who does the right thing and approves a development, and then there's a referendum and they lose their seats, you know, and their decision gets overturned.

And so that's, you have seen over the past couple years where the state has taken a little, we're doing a cautious approach.

We're working very closely with the League of Cities and Towns, but where we are changing some laws to make it so that that can't happen, to make it easier for those approvals to go through and harder for them to be overturned.

And I hope we can get that balance right.

I think we're pretty close right now.

But part of this is a... And look, NIMBY-ism is always seen as a negative, and it's not always a negative because we wanna maintain a high quality of life here in the state of Utah.

And when you approve density in a place where you don't have infrastructure, that does make life worse for lots of people.

It clogs up roads.

It makes it harder for, you know, for people to enjoy the best parts of our state.

And so we have to be, we have to do this the right way.

There are places where we absolutely should have density.

One of the changes that we've made over the past two years is that we are requiring density around transit hubs.

And again, that makes sense.

So we've taken away a little bit of authority from local communities.

And the idea is, look, if the state's going to invest millions of dollars for a transit hub in your community, and that's infrastructure, then we should have more density around that transit hub because there's, you know, there's better opportunities for people to use transit to move in and out.

And so we're investing in your community, so we're gonna take a little more authority over the land use around that area.

That's the type of balancing that I think is smart, and that helps us overcome the worst parts of NIMBY-ism and keeping the good parts.

- Governor, you mentioned the legislature's cautious approach on housing, but do you think in any way they should take more aggressive actions?

You mentioned mentioned the transit hubs, but what specifically would you like to see the legislature do in the future on housing?

- Well, so we're looking at everything that we've done over the past couple years, and we're reevaluating that as we head into the next legislative session.

We want to see what has made a difference and what hasn't and then try to double down on the things that are.

So again, we have this first time home buyer subsidy that we've put out there.

And that's for new construction, and that's, again, really important because we're trying to increase supply.

And so we wanna see how well that's working.

And if it's working well, then I wanna put more money into it if we can show that it's helping young families get into homes and, again, increase supply.

I wanna look at some of the things that we've done in the past.

So one of the bills we passed a couple years ago was for like mother-in-law apartments and auxiliary units for housing, but we allowed some exceptions to that.

And some of the feedback we're getting is that, that the system's been gamed a little bit around in some of our college towns.

Like they've prohibited that type of housing close to campus and only allowed it far away.

Well, that really defeats the purpose of what we're trying to do.

And so we're gonna go back and look at all of those and see what needs to be done.

I don't wanna make the mistake of not allowing what we've done to see if it's actually working.

We do that often.

We put in a whole bunch of new laws and then we put in a whole bunch more and we never stop and pause to see if the last ones are working.

So I do think we need to do a better job of that.

We are also working with the League and Cities and Towns to collect all of the data about new housing starts so that we have really good information that shows...

The last data we have shows that Utah was actually at the top when it comes to new housing permits that have been, that are starting out there.

We wanna know if that's kept up, where we are in light of the changes to interest rates right now and just kind of reevaluate where we are.

But we have some recommendations coming out of the UEOC.

We'll be meeting in October.

I would encourage you to pay close attention to that meeting because you will get a sense for what that subcommittee's coming back with to us.

- And on housing, Governor, do you feel like the homelessness coordinator that the legislature put into place has made a big difference in that realm?

How do you feel the homelessness situation is currently and how it's being managed?

- Yeah, yeah, thank you, Daniel.

And Angel, you get the next question, okay?

We'll get back to you.

So yes, Wayne Niederhauser has been just a godsend when it comes to this work, working closely with providers, working with Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County.

Our other communities as well that are facing this, Ogden, St. George, Provo, these areas where homelessness is becoming a concern.

Now, I will say, and I wanna say this very emphatically, that we have done some great things.

We are investing more in homelessness now than ever before, but there are still some gaps that we need to work on.

And we're, over the course of the next year, I think you will see an increase from my administration working with the legislature, working with the mayors, city and county mayors, when it comes to the holistic approach to homelessness, finding where those gaps are.

We have a winter plan in place.

This is the most comprehensive winter plan that we've ever had.

We've added hundreds of beds to make sure that we are ready when winter comes.

So we're better prepared this year than I think we've been in the past decade.

That's a good thing.

We have to eliminate unsanctioned camping.

We just have to.

And that's going to take some work over the next year to make sure that we have a place for people to go to do that.

Lots of cities are doing this now.

I would encourage you to look at what's happening in Miami.

We've had a group of people, including the mayors, who have gone out there, looked at their program.

We'll be, we'll be picking and choosing some of the best parts of the Miami-Dade model.

You've seen places like, like San Diego who have done more to eliminate unsanctioned camping in different places.

I think you'll see a big, I know you'll see a big push from us on unsanctioned camping.

And then making sure that we have services for people who are struggling.

So much of homelessness is about mental health and serious addiction.

And while we've made strides there, we haven't done enough and so we have work to do there.

And what I would say is stay tuned, because we're, I refuse to let Salt Lake City turn into San D, or excuse me, San Francisco or Portland as I've traveled to those cities and seen what's happened there.

We're seeing that starting to happen here where you don't feel comfortable taking your kids to a park and walking down the street.

We will not allow that to happen in our capital city.

- Okay, that's all the time.

Just one second, sorry.

That's all the time we have for our television broadcast.

Thank you so much for joining us for the Governor's Monthly News Conference.

- [Announcer] This has been the "Governor's Monthly News Conference."

For video and more information, visit pbsutah.org/governor.

(orchestral music)