GEOFF BENNETT: Good evening.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

AMNA NAWAZ: And I'm Amna Nawaz.

On the "NewsHour" tonight: Ukraine's president tries to shore up support from Congress, as some Republicans remain skeptical about providing more aid for the fight against Russia.

GEOFF BENNETT: Media mogul Rupert Murdoch steps down as the head of FOX News and News Corp., raising questions about the future of right-wing media in the U.S. AMNA NAWAZ: And the demand for raw materials used in electric vehicles creates new dilemmas for communities in Minnesota, where nickel mining poses both economic benefits and environmental risks.

MELANIE BENJAMIN, Chief Executive, Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe: We're talking about our people, our plants, our animals, the water that flows throughout.

We do know from all the data that this mining is probably the most toxic mining.

(BREAK) AMNA NAWAZ: Welcome to the "NewsHour."

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is in Washington tonight after a long day making the rounds on Capitol Hill, to the Pentagon and at the White House.

His goal?

Secure more armaments to repel Russia's 18-month invasion.

GEOFF BENNETT: But there is a growing chorus of skepticism and some hostility among House Republicans to the Ukrainians' requests, while, on the other side of the Capitol today, senators met Zelenskyy with open arms.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Today, a leader at war in Washington to rally support.

After bipartisan meetings with both the House and Senate, President Zelenskyy seemed optimistic about continued unity with the U.S. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, Ukrainian President: We have great dialogue.

And I'm very thankful to you, to the journalists, to senators and Congress for helping us, support us.

We spoke about so many details, but it will be between us.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: But, behind closed doors, an urgent plea.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): I'm quoting him verbatim.

Mr. Zelenskyy said: "If we don't get the aid, we will lose the war."

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: That aid hangs in the balance.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Is Zelenskyy elected to Congress?

Is he our president?

I don't think I have to commit anything.

I have questions for him.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Support among some Republican members in the House, including Speaker Kevin McCarthy, is wavering.

Far right Republicans are opposed to sending what they call blank checks to Ukraine.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY: What is the plan for victory?

Where are we currently on the field?

The accountability issues that a lot of members have questions.

Just walk through that.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Meanwhile, support from both party leaders on the other side of Congress remains strong.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): These people in Ukraine who are fighting for their independence are taking on one of the two big adversaries we have, Russia and China.

It seems to me we ought to be helping.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER: Providing aid is not just a matter of Ukrainian security.

It's a matter of American security, because a victorious Putin is an emboldened Putin, making the world less safe for democracy.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Among the key things Zelenskyy asked for during his Capitol Hill visit, more air defense and long-range rockets, called ATACMS, which President Biden has been reluctant to provide.

Just before Zelenskyy arrived at the White House to meet with Biden, National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said the president would not be sending ATACMS to Ukraine, for now.

JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. National Security Adviser: To date, he has determined that he would not provide ATACMS, but he has also not taken it off the table in the future.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Later, at the White House, President Biden welcomed Zelenskyy and announced a new military aid package to Ukraine based on funds previously approved by Congress.

JOE BIDEN, President of the United States: Today, I approved the next tranche of U.S. security assistance to Ukraine, including more artillery, more ammunition, more anti-tank weapons.

And, next week, the first U.S. Abrams tanks will be delivered to Ukraine.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: American aid now and in the future is critical to Ukraine's survival.

Early today, missiles rained over cities across Ukraine.

It was Russia's largest aerial bombardment in more than a month.

Some of the attacks targeted Ukraine's electrical grid for the first time in six months.

Ukraine's military says they shot down most of the missiles.

Still, falling debris ignited fires in residential areas in Kyiv and destroyed homes and businesses farther south in Cherkasy.

And in Southern Ukraine, projectiles destroyed a residential block in Kherson, killing five and wounding more.

Raising the stakes further, the Polish prime minister on television last night said Poland would stop sending military supplies to Ukraine.

MATEUSZ MORAWIECKI, Polish Prime Minister (through translator): We are no longer transferring weapons to Ukraine because we're now arming ourselves with the most modern weapons.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: And just last week, Poland, Hungary and Slovakia announced a ban on Ukrainian grain imports, saying the move was to protect their farmers.

Back in the U.S., as Republican infighting over more aid to Ukraine continues, President Biden seeks to project strong support for a fellow democracy under brutal attack.

GEOFF BENNETT: And White House correspondent Laura Barron-Lopez joins us now from the White House North Lawn.

Also with us to discuss today's development, our congressional correspondent, Lisa Desjardins, at the U.S. Capitol, and, in Kyiv, reporting on the Ukrainian perspective, our foreign affairs and defense correspondent Nick Schifrin.

So, Laura, we will start with you.

President Biden met with President Zelenskyy.

What's the administration's message, as Congress debates more Ukraine aid?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Geoff, this is President Biden's sixth meeting -- sixth meeting with President Zelenskyy since the beginning of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

And the White House message is simple, Geoff.

It's that the United States is going to stand behind Ukraine as long as it takes.

President Biden just announced a new security assistance package that they will give to Ukraine.

And that includes new air defense systems, specifically more ammunition for the HIMARS rocket launchers, which have reached far behind Russian lines, as well as additional cluster munitions and additional artillery.

Now, Geoff, Jake Sullivan of the National Security Council was telling reporters today that they are confident that, in addition to this security package, that Congress is going to pass more funding for Ukraine to provide resources as that war continues, despite the fact that there is ongoing chaos in Congress.

Jake Sullivan said that it is critical that some form of funding for Ukraine is passed by that September 30 deadline.

They're confident that it will be.

And Jake Sullivan said that, if it isn't, that that will create a lapse in the resources and in the supplies that the administration is able to provide to Ukraine.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, Lisa, Laura reports that the White House is projecting confidence that the Ukraine funding will happen.

Is that the sense that you're getting at the Capitol?

LISA DESJARDINS: No, Geoff.

Here, I can tell you Senate leadership sources in both parties who are actually pro-Ukraine sources tell me they do not think that funding can possibly pass by September 30 and may not even pass in whatever the first-round solution is to a potential government shutdown.

That is a short-term problem for sure for Ukraine, but there is also a potential long-term problem here, in that there is growing amount of questions, especially from House Republicans, about whether there should be any aid to Ukraine going forward at all or how much.

Now, that said, as Laura reported earlier, President Zelenskyy spoke to senators in that historic old Senate chamber.

And senators I talked to said he was powerful, he was strong.

He said he thinks Ukraine can win.

Speaking in English, he also said this will not be a forever war.

But sources I talk to here, Geoff, say they just aren't sure how long it will take for that win and how much American money it could take as well.

GEOFF BENNETT: Nick, as we mentioned, you're in Kyiv tonight.

Answer those congressional concerns that Lisa just raised.

Based on your reporting, how long and how much money could this take?

NICK SCHIFRIN: It is the crucial question for D.C., Geoff.

And when we speak to front-line soldiers and President Zelenskyy's aides about that, there's no clear answer.

They are still 100 percent focused on what they believe is their only goal, and that is reseizing all of their territory, no matter how long it takes and, at least in the short term, seizing enough territory in Southern Ukraine to threaten Russian supply lines and Russia's control over Crimea.

But that is a Herculean task because of massive Russian defenses.

And Ukraine is struggling to make progress in that key southern district.

We have seen some success from Ukraine in the last few days, recapturing the village of Klishchiivka outside of Bakhmut.

But that is in the east, and only after pitched battles turned the town into a moonscape, as you can see in this military video.

But in the south, where we spent the last week, some tens of billions of dollars of military aid have not overcome Russian minefields and those extensive Russian defenses.

So it's not clear what the path to victory is, but it is clear, Geoff, what the path to defeat is, and that's what Senator Schumer and President Zelenskyy were referring to today.

Ukraine cannot sustain the way it's been fighting if U.S. ammunition, supplies stop coming.

GEOFF BENNETT: Lisa, what do we know about the public support for your continued aid to Ukraine right now?

And does that influence the thinking of leaders on Capitol Hill?

LISA DESJARDINS: Yes, public sentiment often can be everything.

And if you look at recent polling, it shows you the kind of divide that we're feeling here at the Capitol.

Let's look at some numbers from CNN from July.

There, you can see Democrats.

Should we authorize additional funding?

Sixty-two percent said yes.

But Republicans, look at that; 71 percent of Republicans polled there say no.

As we like to stress here, no poll is perfect.

That's just a snapshot.

But that's exactly what we're feeling here, is that, in general, Republicans are the ones who are moving away from supporting Ukraine, a clear switch from the 1980s, of course, when Republicans were the ones leading the charge against Russia in the Cold War period.

And I will tell you this also.

Talking to some members, including many who are staunch allies of Ukraine, they say they're just not getting phone calls from their constituents on the phone this.

Adding to the problems and complications for Ukraine, Geoff, is that, of course, we're facing this government shutdown, a major budget crisis coming up.

And, really, just Ukraine and the importance of its funding seems to be getting lost a little bit in the lights here in Congress.

GEOFF BENNETT: Laura, as President Biden talks so often about the importance of defending Ukraine, he talks about threats to democracy abroad and here at home, where are his GOP rivals on this issue?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Well, the leading Republican presidential contenders are at odds with President Biden on this, Geoff.

Former President Donald Trump, who is leading the field by double digits, has questioned additional funding to Ukraine, has said that he alone would be able to fix this problem if he were back in the White House and hash out a deal between President Zelenskyy and President -- Russian President Putin.

But, again, there's no evidence that he would be able to do that.

And, also, the contenders right behind him, Ron DeSantis of Florida and Vivek Ramaswamy, are in line with Trump on this, questioning and again saying that saying that they don't think that more aid should be sent to Ukraine right now.

And that is where you're seeing a lot of those hard-line House Republicans draw their encouragement from, from these leading Republican contenders as they try to hold the line and say that they don't want to support Ukraine anymore.

But President Biden this week, and especially today, as he met with President Zelenskyy, has really tried to hammer home the point that the United States, despite what leading Republicans on the presidential field and despite what is being said among the House Republican Conference, that the United States is behind Ukraine and that all countries, all democracies across the world have a stake in this war that's ongoing right now.

GEOFF BENNETT: Final question to you, Nick.

You have been in Ukraine for the last two weeks.

You have been to the front lines.

What does the war look like right now?

NICK SCHIFRIN: Well, the violence continues not only in the front, Geoff, but also in the capital itself.

Today, Russia struck Kyiv, as well as half-a-dozen cities around the country, most worrying, as Laura reported earlier, strikes on Ukraine's electricity infrastructure.

U.S. and Ukrainian officials have been very worried about this because, last winter, Russia launched a campaign across many months against Ukraine's electricity infrastructure, and, for months, many millions of Ukrainians were without power and water.

And, in some ways, Ukraine's ready for it because it's been through it.

But U.S. and Ukrainian officials are worried that another campaign like that could sap some of the country's morale to continue to fight against Russia.

And the two things that have been keeping this country going, Geoff, are morale and those Western weapons that we have been talking about earlier.

GEOFF BENNETT: Nick Schifrin in Kyiv, Lisa Desjardins at the U.S. Capitol, and Laura Barron-Lopez at the White House, our thanks to you three for your reporting.

AMNA NAWAZ: Before his mission to Washington, Zelenskyy first stopped in New York to address the United Nations General Assembly and the Security Council.

For an inside look at American policy toward Ukraine, I'm joined now from New York by Ambassador Victoria Nuland, who is the acting deputy secretary of state.

Ambassador, welcome.

Thanks for joining us.

So, we are likely headed towards a U.S. government shutdown.

Republicans remain very much split on funding for Ukraine.

We know President Biden is seeking an additional $24 billion in Ukraine aid.

How likely is he to get that?

VICTORIA NULAND, Acting U.S. Deputy Secretary of State: Well, Amna, I have to say I was up on the Hill yesterday, and the bipartisan support for Ukraine remains extremely strong, Democrats and Republicans.

And I think that's because the people's representatives and the American people themselves understand what's at stake here.

This is obviously about Ukraine and Putin's vicious war against Ukraine, but it's about far more than that.

It's about the international order and whether a big country can just bully another one with impunity.

And if you allow that to happen and to stick in Ukraine, it'll happen all over the world.

So, we are feeling good about the bipartisan support, but it's also important that President Zelenskyy is here, that he made his case again to the world, and that he will make his case directly to members of Congress, and they will get a chance to ask the questions that they have.

AMNA NAWAZ: As you know, some of the strongest objections to that funding come from a small group of far right Republicans.

Have you met with any of them, especially when you were here on the Hill recently?

VICTORIA NULAND: So, we continue to meet with everybody.

And, again, we're trying to remind folks what the larger stakes are.

We also have some folks who say, well, we should be focused on China or other problems.

And our point is that all of these things are connected.

There are countries all around the world, including China, who are looking to see if the United States stays the course here, if we are able to continue to lead the rest of the world to support Ukraine, to support defense of the rules of the road that favor freedom.

So, our case is that this is not only about Ukraine.

It's about the global order, but it's also about the world that Americans and their children should want to live in.

So that's the case that we are making.

And, frankly, it's a powerful one.

AMNA NAWAZ: Given the way the war has been unfolding so far, at the current expenditure rates, how long would $24 billion really last?

VICTORIA NULAND: Well, we're talking now with the Congress about attaching this supplemental to a funding bill that will last until the end of December.

The government is going to have to be funded in '24, so we anticipate we will have to have another conversation thereafter.

But what we're looking to do here is set the frame for what's important to the American people, what's important to our global role, what's important to peace and security going forward for this chunk of time, but obviously for the future.

AMNA NAWAZ: And when it comes to the NATO alliance, I wanted to ask you about one key member and where he stands right now.

That's the Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who I spoke with recently in New York.

And when I asked him about his relationship with the West and his relationship with Russia, he basically said: "At this moment in time, I trust Russia just as much as I trust the West."

This is a key NATO ally.

I just wonder, what's your response to that?

VICTORIA NULAND: What I would say is that Turkey, in this particular episode of Russia's aggression with Ukraine, has played, frankly, a linchpin role.

And the fact that Erdogan can speak to Putin, when the rest of us have pretty broken relations with him, can come in useful.

It came in useful when they were able to negotiate the Black Sea grain initiative and help Ukraine get its grain out to the world.

And we hope that Erdogan will be able to get that agreement renewed.

But it also doesn't change the fact that Turkey has taken a very strong stand in defense of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

In the first days of the war, they closed the straits to warships, which ensured that this couldn't escalate beyond the region.

And they have provided essential military support to Ukraine as well.

So it's good that Erdogan can still talk to Putin, but it's even more important that he's standing up for the values that undergird NATO and that make Turkey's NATO membership valuable.

AMNA NAWAZ: I suppose open lines of communication are one thing, but to say that he trusts Russia as the aggressor in this war just as much as he trusts the West, is that response OK for you?

You're comfortable with that stance?

VICTORIA NULAND: Look, I'm not going to parse the words of President Erdogan.

I'm going to watch what he does as the leader of a very important ally.

And he's played a -- he and his country have played a strong role in defense of Ukraine.

So -- and the fact that he can talk to Putin is useful.

AMNA NAWAZ: I also wanted to ask you about Saudi Arabia while we have you, because the crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, said in an interview that: "Every day, we get closer to a normalization deal with Israel."

That's something the U.S. has been pushing for, for months.

We know the Saudis would like security guarantees as part of that deal.

Is that something that the U.S. will provide?

VICTORIA NULAND: Well, Amna, I'm not going to get into the details of the deal as we're trying to cook it.

It is extremely complex and involves a lot of elements.

But what I will say is that, if we can have a lasting peace between Israel and Saudi Arabia and a normalization, given their history together and given the role that Saudi Arabia plays in the Arab world, it would be transformational.

It would be transformational for the region.

But there is a lot of complexity in this deal, a lot of things that have to be worked through, including increased support for the Palestinians.

So, we have got some way to go, but we're working very hard on it.

AMNA NAWAZ: You mentioned the Palestinians.

Of course, we know the crown prince also said he hopes the deal would ease the life of Palestinians.

What does that mean in tangible terms?

VICTORIA NULAND: Again, we're talking about this as an element of the deal, in terms of ensuring that the conditions on the ground are such that the prospect of a two-state solution stays vibrant and strong, that there is more economic investment and support in the territories, and that the Palestinian people see the benefits of peace between Israel and Saudi Arabia if we can get there.

But, again, this is just one of the many complex elements in this deal that we're working on now.

AMNA NAWAZ: We look forward to you coming back and joining us again as those conversations continue.

That is Ambassador Victoria Nuland, acting deputy secretary of state.

Thank you very much for joining us.

VICTORIA NULAND: Thank you, Amna.

AMNA NAWAZ: In the day's other headlines: The Senate confirmed two more top military nominees after a monthslong blockade.

General Randy George will be the next Army chief of staff, and General Eric Smith will be the Marine Corps commandant.

Their nominations were among hundreds that had been blocked by Alabama Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville to protest the Defense Department's abortion policy.

A Pentagon spokesman said the delays have been damaging.

BRIG.

GEN. PATRICK RYDER, Pentagon Press Secretary: These holds president a national security and military readiness risk.

From a Department of Defense standpoint, we have been very clear that we would like the holds to be lifted so that we can ensure that we have the right officers in the right jobs at the right time.

AMNA NAWAZ: This comes a day after the Senate approved Air Force General C.Q.

Brown to be the next chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

A government contractor who worked for the Departments of State and Justice has been charged with espionage for sending classified U.S. defense information to Ethiopia.

The Maryland man is a naturalized U.S. citizen from that country.

The revelation came during a review after the arrest of Massachusetts Air National Guardsman Jack Teixeira, who was indicted for leaking a trove of top secret military documents.

Congress is heading home for the long weekend as a federal government shutdown looms with no solution in sight.

The reversal came after House Speaker Kevin McCarthy's attempt to move ahead on a sweeping military funding bill was blocked for a third time by hard-line Republicans.

Government funding is set to expire at the end of next week.

A bus filled with high school band members rolled over and crashed on a New York highway today, killing one person.

Emergency officials reported 49 students were injured.

The bus was carrying band members from Nassau County, New York, to band camp in Pennsylvania.

Officials from Azerbaijan met today with representatives from the breakaway Nagorno-Karabakh region, as a cease-fire appears to be holding.

Authorities estimate at least 200 people were killed in recent fighting.

Accompanied by Russian peacekeepers, the delegations discussed the reintegration of the region and its ethnic Armenian population.

Armenians have controlled the area since the early 1990s.

India suspended visa services in Canada today, the latest move in a widening diplomatic rift between the two nations.

Tensions first flared on Monday, when Canada alleged that India's government was involved in the killing of a Sikh activist.

India also called for Canada to reduce its embassy staff in New Delhi.

Later, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau urged India to cooperate in the investigation.

JUSTIN TRUDEAU, Canadian Prime Minister: There is no question that India is a country of growing importance and a country that we need to continue to work with.

But we are unequivocal around the importance of the rule of law and unequivocal about the importance of protecting Canadians and standing up for our values.

AMNA NAWAZ: Meanwhile, at the White House, National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said the U.S. has been in contact with both countries about the killing.

The U.S. has been seeking to strengthen its relations with India, but Sullivan said they won't be giving them any -- quote -- "special exemption on this."

The U.N.'s migration agency estimates more than 43,000 people in Northeastern Libya have been displaced by the country's catastrophic floods.

Streets in the hard-hit city of Derna are still lined with debris and crumbling buildings coated with mud.

Many residents have been driven out by a water shortage.

SHOUKRY MOHAMED, Libyan Flood Survivor (through translator): My family is now displaced.

They fled the city and are now trying to find somewhere else to stay.

I'm now staying here, but we will have to leave because there's a water problem and an electricity problem.

We won't be able to live here more than this.

AMNA NAWAZ: Many of the displaced are relocating to Libyan cities to the east and west of Derna, staying with relatives or sheltering in local schools.

Hollywood studios and striking screenwriters appear to be inching closer to an agreement as they resumed negotiations for a second consecutive day.

The nearly five-month-long dispute has triggered protests and halted many film and television productions.

The two sides have been trying to iron out their differences over pay and the use of artificial intelligence to write scripts.

And, in economic news, the Labor Department reported weekly jobless claims fell to their lowest level in eight months.

But that wasn't enough to prevent stocks from extending their losses.

The Dow Jones industrial average plunged 370 points to close at 34070.

The Nasdaq fell 245 points.

The S&P 500 slipped 72.

Still to come on the "NewsHour": a Black band director speaks out after being arrested and Tased at a football game in Alabama; the dangers and benefits of nickel mining in Northern Minnesota; clothing becomes a point of political contention as the Senate relaxes its dress code; plus much more.

GEOFF BENNETT: Rupert Murdoch, the chair of FOX and News Corp, is stepping down from running his global media empire.

John Yang has more on his legacy and his successor.

JOHN YANG: Geoff, over seven decades, Rupert Murdoch assembled an unmatched global media empire, newspapers, television and movies in the United States, Britain and Australia.

It includes FOX News, the FOX television network, FOX Sports, The Wall Street Journal, and The New York Post.

The 92-year-old Murdoch has used them to wield enormous political influence in three continents.

But they have also led to some self-inflicted wounds, most notably FOX News' $787 million settlement with Dominion Voting Systems for defamation over the 2020 election.

David Folkenflik is NPR's media correspondent.

He's also the author of "Murdoch's World: The Last of the Old Media Empires."

David, when Murdoch, Rupert Murdoch, steps down in November, he's going to hand the reins over to his elder son, Lachlan, who's 52.

Do you think anything is going to change then about the approach, the tone, the political slant of particularly FOX News and the other FOX News outlets, newspapers?

DAVID FOLKENFLIK, NPR: I don't.

I think that Lachlan is, if anything, slightly more conservative than his father, a little less politically engaged, to be sure, and a little less corporately engaged, and less sort of ceaselessly ambitious than his father to keep expanding and maneuvering.

He's really been focusing his maneuvering on getting atop of this family empire.

So, no, I think that FOX has been trying -- the two Murdochs, father and son, have been trying to figure out if there's a way to cultivate a challenger to Donald Trump in the Republican primaries for next year's presidential elections, giving, for example, Ron DeSantis the longest audition possible in front of viewers.

He's failed to catch fire.

It's been widely reported they're interested in Glenn Youngkin and perhaps others.

But if Donald Trump, as he did in 2016, steamrolls the competition, I think you're going to see Lachlan Murdoch's FOX News sprint to the front of the parade and make as if they were leading it all along, just as FOX News did in 2016.

JOHN YANG: Lachlan Murdoch has essentially been co-chairman with his father since 2019.

What has his performance in that period told us about him?

DAVID FOLKENFLIK: Well, I think what it's told you is that he wouldn't have that job if his last name were yours or mine.

He's made some smart investments when -- involving an online site involving real estate in Australia, the question of Tubi, which is sort of an advertising-premised television channel or service now.

But it's nothing to indicate that this is somebody who brings incredible vision or incredible charisma to the job.

I think he's found to be charming inside FOX, personable, somewhat absentee, particularly during this COVID period, had spent time in Los Angeles initially, now in Sydney, where his family is based much of the time.

I think that Lachlan Murdoch is seen as driven to get this job.

And it's not entirely clear what much differently he'd like to do with this job.

I think one of the things that it has shown up is that Rupert Murdoch is in some ways truly a one-of-a-kind, very hard to replicate either through a corporate successor or a designated child.

JOHN YANG: One of a kind.

His legacy -- what do you think is going to be a bigger part of his legacy, the business empire he built or the political influence he developed?

DAVID FOLKENFLIK: Well, I think you're going to see probably in coming years, and particularly after Murdoch's death, Rupert Murdoch's death, that much of this unwinds, that the other adult Murdoch children who are control in with family trust won't want to hold onto it, simply for Lachlan to run.

They'd rather unlock the value.

And in that case, the legacy that endures is sort of the success and the fun at times of his right-wing populism, but also the punitive and pugilistic nature of it that has been ultimately quite corrosive, not only to our sense of what fair play is in journalism in this country and in some of the others, like the U.K. and Australia.

In which he was so dominant, but even throughout our body politic, where the -- this asymmetrical influence he had over the Republican Party and the degree of, in a sense, business and political power he obtained as a result has left him serving an audience that wanted rawer and rawer red meat, that ultimately led him to chasing his audience, rather than guiding them to a place that involved the facts.

And I think it undermined the sense of a young man who started out as a newspaper man with a keen sense for a story and for fun and for an inconvenient fact to a guy who's chasing the audience views by serving what they call the brand of FOX News, rather than the news provided by FOX News.

JOHN YANG: David Folkenflik of NPR, thank you very much.

DAVID FOLKENFLIK: You bet.

AMNA NAWAZ: Fallout from the Tasing and arrest of an Alabama high school band director is sending ripples across the nation.

Video of the incident after a Thursday night football game in Birmingham shows a chaotic scene.

We're going to play some of that video now, and we should warn you that it may be disturbing to some viewers.

In that video, police approach Minor High School's band director, Johnny Mims, who is leading his students as they performed into the so-called fifth quarter, a tradition from historically Black colleges in which both teams' bands play dueling songs after the game ends.

MAN: Call your band!

Tell them to stop!

WOMAN: Cut it!

We got to go!

The minutes is over.

JOHNNY MIMS, Minor High School Band Director: I know.

We're fixing to go.

This is our last song.

AMNA NAWAZ: Officials can be heard asking Mims to stop playing, as he tells them they're on the last song.

The stadium lights then go dark.

And WOMAN: Let's go!

AMNA NAWAZ: And the situation escalates when Mims steps off the platform and officers begin trying to handcuff him.

A physical altercation starts between the officers and Mims.

MAN: He's going to jail.

He hit the officer.

He's got to go to jail.

AMNA NAWAZ: Mims objects to being arrested and is then repeatedly Tased by police.

Joining us now is Johnny Mims and his lawyer, Juandalynn Givan, who's also an Alabama state representative.

Welcome to both of you.

Thanks for joining us.

And, Mr. Mims, I want to begin with you, because I'm interested in your perspective in that moment.

We just saw on the video multiple officers are asking you to stop playing.

You're telling them it's your last song.

They say, we're going to call the superintendent.

You say, get out of my face.

It just seems to escalate and escalate and escalate.

And I'm just wondering what you're thinking in that moment.

Did you consider, I should stop playing?

JOHNNY MIMS: In the footage you see, I'm directly in front of the band.

So I'm pretty much trying to give guidance to the band.

It's very difficult to give that if you have persons in front of you.

So I know it seems as if it was as simple as just cutting the band off.

I have also been kind of making it clear to everybody there's a group of band in front of me.

So I have 145 students total.

Of that group, it is split.

So I have a half -- a majority of the group in the stands.

And then I have another portion of the group on the floor.

So there's a certain coordination that has to happen before the band to be able to stop.

And that's pretty much what you hear.

So, you hear -- you see an officer reaching over, over the fence, telling me I need to stop playing or we need to leave.

And so you will hear me gesture to that -- to that officer, please get out my face, in a way to make sure he's able to move out the way so that I can give proper instructions to the students, because they were obstructing my opportunity to do that.

And so that was my mind-set.

Again, I'm responsible for making sure that I'm able to properly coordinate everything with the group.

And, again, I had the group, because we're such a larger group, that group was split over two different sections.

AMNA NAWAZ: And we see also on the video officers start to then say, "You're going to go to jail."

You give a thumbs up and say, that's cool.

Did you expect them to try to arrest you afterwards?

JOHNNY MIMS: And that thumbs up was -- really was my way of just trying to go ahead and let them know we're trying to wrap it up, in a sense of, I hadn't done anything.

If you look really on my face, more importantly, I was just pretty much mostly knowing that I hadn't done anything.

So, in my head, I'm like, there is no reason why they would take me to jail when I haven't done anything.

I'm pretty much doing exactly what my job requires me to do, which is direct the band.

And so that's the gesture you got back from me.

And, again, it's very difficult to see that from the bodycam, but on the other side of that cam is that the officer making gestures and threatening gestures at me while this process is happening.

And, unfortunately, you can't see that.

But that is the reason why you see me saying, OK, OK, that's cool, because I'm trying to find a quick way to go ahead and get them out of the way, so that I can go ahead and get the band to finish up the last tune that we were doing, which was really only 10 or 15 or maybe 30 seconds from being completed.

AMNA NAWAZ: Ms. Givan, we have all seen the video.

Your client was Tased multiple times after that.

He's now been charged with disorderly conduct, harassment, and resisting arrest.

You're calling for all the charges to be dropped and for the police who Tased Mr. Mims to be suspended.

What has the response been like so far from the police department?

REP. JUANDALYNN GIVAN (D-AL): Oh, wow.

The response from the police department, of course, was their initial response.

Of course, they own no fault in what happened to my client.

However, they have not been able to produce not one showing a bodycam.

And I'm glad you mentioned the body camera.

What you all -- and I started sending out to the general public -- excuse me -- to the press yesterday, I actually on Tuesday received the various pieces of footage in different angles of the bodycam.

And what you all received or what went out viral on Monday that was sent out by the Birmingham Police Department was an edited version of the bodycam.

And so I started then, however, looking at as many different angles that I received from the city attorney, because they were somewhat shocked initially that the Birmingham Police Department released that bodycam without advice of the city attorney.

That's number one.

And that's when I realized they released it for the purpose of trying to get ahead of the story to make the public or -- no more than a ruse to the public, because they wanted to get ahead of it to make it appear as if they were innocent.

AMNA NAWAZ: Mr. Mims, you have mentioned previously how hard it was to know all of this was unfolding in front of your students.

And we can hear on that video some of their screams in the background as this is unfolding.

Tell us about if you have talked to any of them, if you have heard from any of them, and what those concerns are based on.

JOHNNY MIMS: We have -- of course, I have had many students, alumni students I have taught in the past, many students.

And I think the biggest thing for everybody to understand, for these students, alumni, parents, the community, the band community, many people are having just -- they're having a hard time grappling of why they would, of course, Tase a educator in front of the students, and, more importantly, for something as simple as the band was playing a song and was towards the end of the song to complete.

I mean, it seemed like it's a very minor thing that led up to me being Tased multiple times.

And I think that's the thing that most of the students and everybody's trying to grapple with.

Out of the whole -- out of all of the situation, I was the person that received all of the Tasing, the rough threats, and all of the different things that came from the police department.

And that's not acceptable.

And, as you can see in other interviews from parents that were there, you can see that a lot of those type of things in regards threats, to aggressiveness from the police department happened even while we were getting there.

As soon as we get off the bus, they were already experiencing those things.

And so it was just not acceptable.

And it's something that should never have happened.

You hear the officers say: "Hey, I'm going to call your superintendent."

That would be the process of what should have happened.

It should have been a contact of superintendent, so they could get in contact with my administrator.

And the administrator would have communicated that to us well in advance, which would have prevented all of this.

And, more importantly, we have to also keep in mind making sure we -- somebody turned off the lights.

That further caused a confusion among the students, parents and the fans that were there.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is Johnny Mims and his lawyer, Juandalynn Givan, who's also an Alabama state representative, joining us tonight.

Thank you both so much for your time.

We appreciate it.

JOHNNY MIMS: Thank you.

REP. JUANDALYNN GIVAN: Thank you so much.

GEOFF BENNETT: The Inflation Reduction Act includes a number of incentives to companies and individuals to build and buy electric vehicles.

For auto manufacturers.

Those incentives include sourcing their parts and raw materials domestically.

And that presents challenges for some communities, notably in Northern Minnesota, where Fred de Sam Lazaro reports, there has been a rise in permit applications for new mines.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: From carnival games to the parade down Main Street, the annual Hey Days Festival in Tamarack, population 62, is meant to be fun, a chance for neighbors to get caught up, a chance for kids to pick up candy that is sure to pour out of the parading vehicle.

This year, two of those vehicles are all-electric Teslas, each bearing sharply conflicting messages that cut to the heart of the escalating tension in this region over whether to extract nickel, a mineral currently seeing strong demand in the electric vehicle market.

Many people in Northern Minnesota proudly boast that it was iron ore extracted from the ground here that the fed America's steel industry, that built the country, that helped it win two World Wars.

The question today is whether this region can play a similar role in the transition to a post-fossil fuel age.

BRIAN GOLDNER, Chief Exploration and Operations Officer, Talon Metals: So, this is one of the highest samples I have ever seen, and certainly the highest sample I have ever held.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Brian Goldner is a geologist for Talon Metals, a mining company that has unearthed samples of high-grade nickel from deep below landed it has leased just north of Tamarack.

BRIAN GOLDNER: These samples run about 9 percent nickel.

And to put that into perspective, high-grade nickel is considered to be essentially 1 percent and above.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: So, this is a big deal?

Talon Metals says it already has an agreement to supply Tesla with the nickel from here.

TODD MALAN, Chief External Affairs Officer, Talon Metals: We need a lot more nickel for the transition from a fossil fuel-centered energy system to a mineral-centered energy system.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Spokesman Todd Malan says Talon's 60-acre mine to be built under the ground where we were standing would create more than 400 union jobs.

That's welcome news for Lisa Rudstrom, a former science teacher lifelong resident of an area where the iron ore-based economy has declined in recent decades, along with the domestic steel industry it supplies.

LISA RUDSTROM, Better in Our Backyard: The potential I see are new roofs and new sidewalks and new schools and vibrant arts opportunities and vibrant communities, happy people, healthy people.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Just how healthy is the key question.

Unlike iron mining, extracting nickel ores, which also contain copper, cobalt and platinum, produces acid byproducts.

This sulfide mining has a toxic legacy across the world, including mines owned by Rio Tinto, the Anglo-Australian company and joint venture partner here with Talon Metals.

TODD MALAN: There is that legacy and that history that we're carrying as a burden.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: But Malan insists things will be different here, an area dotted with its share of Minnesota's nearly 12,000 lakes.

TODD MALAN: We can take different approaches.

We can use innovative approaches.

We can design things differently.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: For example, he says a tunnel-boring machine will lay a pipe that will protect the groundwater table as it drills further down to reach the buried metals.

And water pumped out at this deeper level would be contained in steel tankers and treated before being released above ground into nearby waterways.

The ores themselves would be loaded inside a sealed building onto covered railcars and transported to a processing site in North Dakota, far from this freshwater-rich area.

TODD MALAN: So it's not that we have zero impact.

It's that we have ways to mitigate those impacts and protect the things that are the most important, which in this region is water and the flora and fauna that depends on that water.

MELANIE BENJAMIN, Chief Executive, Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe: It's all just pie-in-the-sky types of statements being made.

You can tell me that this is safe, but I don't believe it at this point.

Oh, I love it here.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Melanie Benjamin is chief executive of the Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe.

She says the proposed mine would be one more example of extractive industry that has devastated tribal lands.

There are some 160,000 abandoned mines on or near native lands in the Western U.S. alone.

The Minnesota mine would be close to the tribe's water source, and Benjamin says it would also threaten the sacred harvest of wild rice that grows in lakes here.

MELANIE BENJAMIN: We're talking about our people, our plants, our animals, the water that flows throughout.

We do know from all the data that this mining is probably the most toxic mining that there is.

TOM ANDERSON, Co-Founder, Tamarack Water Alliance: I remember as a kid walking through here.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Among the tribe's allies in this region are Tom and Lynn Anderson, who live on Round Lake just a few miles from the proposed mine site.

TOM ANDERSON: They're pulling, Talon admits, up to 2.3 million gallons -- it's likely more - - out of the mine, and that's going to have an effect on the aquifers, well levels, lake levels.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: The Andersons founded a group called the Tamarack Water Alliance.

They say that even the exploratory drilling has shown damaging environmental impact.

Shanai Matteson, another member of the group, showed us this drone video filmed by a local resident.

SHANAI MATTESON, Tamarack Water Alliance: They have what are called sumps, where they put those drilling fluids.

The trees nearby, you can start to see that the trees around the sumps are dying.

That, to me, really speaks to the danger of this type of mining.

It is high-grade nickel, but that's also high-sulfide.

And the interaction between that high sulfide and water and air creates acid.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Talon Metals says the trees died because their roots were inadvertently choked under soil dug up to build the sumps.

Critics say the cause could be both suffocation and toxic sulfides, noting that the company has not lined the sumps to prevent toxins from seeping into groundwater.

TODD MALAN: We have a loss of less than 30 acres of wetlands.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Todd Malan says his company is in compliance with Minnesota regulations and is currently compiling data the critics have demanded, which he says will be disclosed as part of the years-long permitting process.

TODD MALAN: It's frustrating sometimes to have people not like the legacy approaches and then don't like the innovative approaches either.

AL ZDON, Former Newspaper Editor: America's got a great dilemma.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Al Zdon is a former editor of the northern Minnesota newspaper Hibbing Tribune.

AL ZDON: We need the materials.

We don't want to mine them.

So what do we do?

Do we export our mining needs to other countries, where they won't have good environmental standards?

Is that a good idea?

Is that what America does?

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Indonesia, the Philippines and Russia are the world's top producers of nickel, although the U.S. currently imports most of its needs from Canada, Norway and Australia.

If developed, the Tamarack mine would contribute only a fraction of current U.S. needs.

Just what that need will be in the future is another point of contention back in Tamarack in the tale of the two Teslas.

While many E.V.s, like the one owned by Talon Metals, use batteries containing nickel, a growing number, including the Tesla owned by mining opponent Lynn Anderson, now use lithium ion phosphate batteries, which contain no nickel.

LYNN ANDERSON, Co-Founder, Tamarack Water Alliance: By the time this mine gets its permits, which could be 10 years, the whole battery industry will be moving on.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Talon Metals says nickel will see sustained demand, citing high market prices for it and two federal grants totaling $134 million it has received to help increase domestic production here and in nearby Upper Michigan, where the only operating nickel mine on U.S. soil is expected to be exhausted by 2027.

For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Fred de Sam Lazaro in Tamarack, Minnesota.

GEOFF BENNETT: And Fred's reporting is a partnership with the Under-Told Stories Project at the University of St. Thomas in Minnesota.

It's the other debate playing out in the halls of Congress, not about government funding, but about clothing, what with the Senate loosening a longstanding tradition requiring business attire in the Upper Chamber.

Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman, known for wearing shorts and hooded sweatshirts around the Capitol, appreciates the change, but many others do not.

A group of Republican senators wrote to the majority leader that -- quote -- "Allowing casual clothing on the Senate floor disrespects the institution we serve and the American families we represent."

Some Democratic senators are openly objecting to the change as well.

Here to discuss the change and what it means is Richard Thompson Ford.

He's a professor at Stanford Law School and the author of "Dress Codes: How the Laws of Fashion Made History."

Thank you for being with us.

RICHARD THOMPSON FORD, Author, "Dress Codes: How the Laws of Fashion Made History": Thanks for having me on the show.

GEOFF BENNETT: In response to the relaxed dress code, Senator Susan Collins of Maine, she first joked that she was going to wear a bikini on the Senate floor.

But then she added: "I think there's a certain dignity that we should be maintaining in the Senate.

And to do away with the dress code debases the institution."

How do you see it?

RICHARD THOMPSON FORD: Well, I see it as a change that's reflecting changes in society.

It's been -- for many years, norms of dress have been getting more casual, starting perhaps with the Silicon Valley out, where I live, but it's spread around the nation to banks and law firms.

And so I can't say I'm surprised that it's now come to the United States Congress.

GEOFF BENNETT: The dress codes and norms of Congress, as you mentioned, they have evolved over the years.

Back in 1993, that was when women were allowed to wear pants on the Senate floor.

It was Senator Barbara Mikulski and Carol Moseley Braun who led the pantsuit rebellion.

But, still, senators traditionally stick to business attire, suits for men and dresses or pantsuits for the women.

Are there limits to the decline of formality and what that conveys?

RICHARD THOMPSON FORD: Well, I think there are limits and there should be limits.

The very tricky question is exactly where those limits lie.

And I do want to emphasize that these norms change over time historically, and they have for hundreds of years.

Ever since, let's say the late Middle Ages, one can detect a trend of clothing changing over time and generally becoming more casual, so that, even today, the kind of attire that we associate with formality, something like a jacket like this one, was once considered sportswear, suitable only for hunting in the country or playing sports.

And so this trend is just continuing in the present day.

GEOFF BENNETT: And before Senator Fetterman arrived in Washington, it was Arizona Senator Kyrsten Sinema whose attire choices were often the center of debate about appropriateness and so forth.

Certainly, wearing Carhartt hooded sweatshirts and shorts helped establish Fetterman's political brand.

But there are those who argue that at a time when public trust in government is waning, when decorum in Congress is at a low, that attire matters now in a way that it might not have previously.

RICHARD THOMPSON FORD: Well, I have some sympathy for that argument.

And yet, at the same time, the question is, what are people conveying with their attire and what are we conveying with dress codes?

It's interesting that you mentioned the role of women, because, historically, norms of professionalism have excluded some groups of people.

They have excluded women, or they have made it harder for women to join what were previously all-male institutions.

And they have made it harder for some other groups as well.

So you could make the case that John Fetterman represents a group of Americans in his attire.

He's expressing a certain kind of authenticity, a connection with his constituents.

And that's why I'm not surprised that this kind of change has happened.

GEOFF BENNETT: Big picture, COVID changed the way that people dress in the workplace.

Athleisure, sportswear has now crept into every aspect of American life, for better or for worse.

Returning to that question about the demise of formality, where do you see the American public right now, the American culture, writ large?

RICHARD THOMPSON FORD: I think you're quite right to mention COVID.

We're starting to see a blurring of the lines between workwear and the kind of thing that you wear at home, because half of the workweek for many Americans now is spent at home.

So you have the old formal dress codes are kind of under attack from a number of sides.

GEOFF BENNETT: Richard Thompson Ford, Stanford Law School professor and author of "Dress Codes: How the Laws of Fashion Made History," thanks for your insights.

RICHARD THOMPSON FORD: Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: And don't forget, there's more online.

Striking UAW employees in Detroit tell the "NewsHour" why they have walked out from auto plants.

That's at PBS.org/NewsHour.

GEOFF BENNETT: And join us again here tomorrow night, along with David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

AMNA NAWAZ: And I'm Amna Nawaz.

On behalf of the entire "NewsHour" team, thank you for joining us.