>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO." HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> WE'RE DEFENDING OUR PEOPLE.

WE WANT OUR PEOPLE TO BE FREE.

>> MY EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH UKRAINE'S BRAND NEW DEFENSE MINISTER.

HE TELLS ME HOW THE WAR AND COUNTRY ARE ENTERING A NEW PHASE.

THEN -- >> THIS WILL BE A REPUBLICAN SHUTDOWN.

>> THE BLAME GAME HEATS UP IN WASHINGTON AS HARD LINE REPUBLICANS PUSH GOVERNMENT INTO A SHUTDOWN.

THE LATEST WITH DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN PAT RYAN.

>>> THEN, THE IRANIAN ACTIVIST BLINDED DURING THE COUNTRY'S CRACK DOWN.

WE HAVE A SPECIAL REPORT WITH A WOMAN WHO LOST AN EYE IN THE DEMONSTRATIONS.

>>> ALSO AHEAD, AS MIGRANTS SURGE AT THE U.S. SOUTHERN BORDER, AN EXPERT TELLS WHY IT MUST NOW BE CALLED A CRISIS.

"AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY CANDACE KING WEIR, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, MARK J. BLECHNER, SETON J. MELVIN, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR BPS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

A RESET FOR UKRAINE, FOR THE WAR AND FOR THE COUNTRY'S MILITARY MACHINE AS THEY SETTLE IN FOR THE LONG HAUL AGAINST RUSSIAN AGGRESSION.

PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAS APPOINTED A NEW DEFENSE MINISTER TO MARK THIS SHIFT.

41-YEAR-OLD RUSTEM AND HE GOT THE JOB JUST 20 DAYS AGO.

IN HIS FIRST AND EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW TONIGHT HE TELLS ME HIS MINISTRY IS GETTING A REBOOT, AND THERE'LL BE NEW EMPHASIS ON BUILDING UP UKRAINE'S OWN ARMS INDUSTRY AS THE U.S. AND EUROPEAN ALLIES START TO WONDER HOW LONG AND HOW MUCH MORE THEY CAN PROVIDE.

HE TELLS ME THE COUNTER OFFENSIVE IS MAKING PROGRESS.

AND I BEGAN BY ASKING HIM ABOUT THE FATE OF RUSSIA'S BLACK SEA FLEET CHIEF WHO WAS SHOWN ON VIDEO BY THE KREMLIN TODAY, A DAY AFTER UKRAINE CLAIMED TODAY HAVE KILLED HIM IN AN ATTACK ON CRIMEA.

MINISTER, THANK YOU FOR THE PROGRAM.

CAN YOU CONFIRM THAT THE HEAD OF RUSSIA'S BLACK SEA FLEET IS IN FACT DEAD OR ALIVE?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, HE IS IN OUR TEMPORARY OCCUPIED TERRITORY.

SO HE IS NOT -- HE SHOULD NOT BE THERE AT ALL.

SO IF HE IS DEAD, IT IS GOOD NEWS FOR EVERYBODY WE ARE CONTINUING TO OCCUPY OUR TERRITORY.

>> DO YOU THINK YOU'LL CONTINUE TO GET MISSILES FROM THE UNITED STATES?

>> WE'VE JUST HAD A SUCCESSFUL VISIT TO THE UNITED STATES, SO HOPEFULLY SOON WE'LL SEE THE RESULTS.

>> I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND FROM YOU WHETHER UKRAINE IS ENTERING A NEW PHASE OF NOT JUST DEPENDING ON YOUR FRIENDS FOR WEAPONS AND AMMUNITION, BUT ARE YOU PLANNING AS I'VE READ, A BIG, YOU KNOW, BUILD UP OF YOUR OWN IN TERMS OF MANUFACTURING OF AMMUNITION, WEAPONS SYSTEMS, AND THE LIKE?

>> I WILL JUST EXPLAIN THE LOGIC BEHIND.

AS RUSSIA ALWAYS ALLEGES US AS A FAILED STATE AND ALWAYS ALLEGES US IN CORRUPTION, WE WANT TO SAY TO OUR PARTNERS WE ARE VERY TRANSPARENT.

AND WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THE PROCUREMENT CONTRACT MANAGEMENT, LOGISTICS VERY TRANSPARENT.

AND WE'RE GOING TO SUPPLY ALL THESE WEAPONS IMPORTED TO OUR COUNTRY EITHER BY BUYING THEM DIRECTLY OR THROUGH THE FOREIGN MILITARY AID.

BUT WE'RE ALSO GOING TO LOCALIZE ALL THE PRODUCTION.

I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO DETAILS, BUT THIS IS SUPPLY CHAIN MANAGEMENT RISK ASSESSMENT THAT WE NEED TO LOCALIZE AS MUCH AS WE CAN SO THAT WE'LL HAVE SUFFICIENT FACILITIES TO -- TO HAVE THE WEAPONS WE NEED FOR DEOCCUPATION OF OUR TERRITORIES.

>> YOU SAID ONCE THAT EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW, THAT CAN BE PRODUCED LOCALLY MUST BE PRODUCED LOCALLY.

>> I -- MY FOCUS IS THAT, OF COURSE, THE MINISTER OF DEFENSE SHOULD BE SUPPLYING ITS DEFENSE FORCES WITH WHATEVER THEY NEED TO REGAIN TERRITORY AND TO DEFEND THEIR PEOPLE.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME I HAVE FOCUSED TO WHAT PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAS SAID WE NEED TO HAVE THE LOCAL PRODUCTION SO THAT WE COULD HAVE MORE WORKFORCE, AND THEY WOULD BE FOCUSED ONTO THEIR DEFENSE TECHNOLOGIES.

AND AFTER WE WIN THE WAR WE WOULD BE ONE OF THE LARGEST DEFENSE TECH COUNTRIES.

SO AT THIS STAGE MY PRIORITY IS TO LOCALIZE EVERYTHING THAT COULD BE LOCALIZED, TO HAVE A LOCAL PRODUCTION ON ANYTHING THAT OUR FORCES NEED.

>> CAN I ASK YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT STRATEGY?

A LOT HAS BEEN REPORTED ABOUT YOUR OWN -- YOU KNOW, YOUR OWN ORIGINS.

YOU ARE FROM CRIMEA.

THIS IS YOUR HOMELAND, AND AS YOU KNOW AND WE'VE REPORTED QUITE A LOT OF UKRAINIAN EFFORT HAS GONE INTO STRIKING AND TARGETING RUSSIAN FACILITIES IN OCCUPIED CRIMEA AND ANNEXED CRIMEA.

HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT FOR YOU PERSONALLY AND FOR THE COUNTER OFFENSIVE?

>> I'M UKRAINIAN OF CRIMEAN TATAR ORIGIN.

OF COURSE AS A PERSON BORN IN EXILE AND DEPORTATION AND FELT THAT HARDSHIP MYSELF BEING A REFUGEE OR INTERNALLY DISPLACED PERSON, OF COURSE I FEEL HEARTBROKEN THAT FOR ALMOST TEN YEARS I'M AWAY FROM MY HOMELAND.

AND WE HAVE MANY PEOPLE THAT ARE NOW LIVING AS INTERNAL DISPLACED PERSONS FROM THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES.

SO IT IS A PERSONAL, OF COURSE, FOCUS FOR ME TO DEOCCUPY ALL THE TERRITORIES SO THAT OUR IDPs -- NOT IDPs BUT OUR CITIZENS CAN LIVE THEIR OWN LIVES.

OF COURSE AS A MINISTER OF DEFENSE I'M FOCUSED ON OUR STRATEGY OF VICTORY.

I'M FOCUSED TO SUPPLYING WHATEVER IS NEEDED TO OUR SOLDIERS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME I WILL BE FEELING HAPPY IF I'LL GO BACK HOME.

>> NOW, CORRUPTION.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF FOCUS ON THAT, AND WE HAVE NOTICED THAT SEVERAL OF THE DEPUTIES HAVE BEEN DISMISSED.

SIX OUT OF SEVEN DEFENSE DEPUTIES HAVE BEEN DISMISSED.

IS THAT ABOUT ALLEGATIONS OF CORRUPTION?

YOU HAVE SAID THE WHOLE DEFENSE MINISTRY NEEDS TO BE REBOOTED.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

>> SO, FIRSTLY, WE CONTINUE OUR EFFORTS FOR BEING VERY TRANSPARENT.

WE MAKE THAT VERY CLEAR ASSESSMENT ON ACQUISITION AND SUSTAINMENT.

WE'RE PUTTING THE SYSTEM, A VERY TRANSPARENT PROCUREMENT SYSTEM, A VERY TRANSPARENT CONTRACT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, AND WE'LL BE PROBABLY CONSOLIDATING AND UNIFYING ALL THE DEFENSE FORCES LOGISTICS SYSTEMS.

SO AT THIS STAGE REBOOTING NEEDED FOR THE NEW CHALLENGES THAT IS TO COME.

THE PREVIOUS TEAM WORKED WHEN THERE WAS FULL-SCALE INVASION AND THERE WAS NO SYSTEM.

MANY PARTNERS, MANY PEOPLE HAVE ABANDONED, BUT THEN THEY REGAINED THE CONFIDENCE.

SO AT THIS STAGE WE NEED TO BRING THE COUNTRY TO VICTORY.

SO THERE NEEDS TO BE A NEW SET OF, LET'S SAY, TARGETS THAT STRATEGICALLY WE NEED TO GET TO.

AND I'M HERE TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.

>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT WEAPONS YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN AND WEAPONS SYSTEMS.

SO IT WAS ANNOUNCED ON MONDAY THAT THE FIRST OF THE ABRAMS TANKS HAVE ARRIVED.

THE M1 ABRAMS TANKS HAVE ARRIVED.

NOW, I REMEMBER INTERVIEW YOUR PREDECESSOR IN JANUARY WHEN IT WAS ANNOUNCED THEY WOULD BE COMING.

THAT'S PRACTICALLY TEN MONTHS AGO FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES.

THAT'S A LONG TIME TO WAIT FOR -- FOR WEAPONS SYSTEMS IN YOUR CURRENT ENVIRONMENT.

AND MEAN DO YOU THINK THAT YOU'RE GETTING WHAT YOU NEED WHEN YOU NEED IT?

>> WELL, THERE IS ALWAYS QUESTIONS, BUT OUR FOCUS IS ON VICTORY.

AND AT THIS STAGE WE NEED MORE WEAPONS TO MAKE THE GAME CHANGE, SO AT THIS STAGE WE MADE PROGRESS.

WHEN TANKS CAME WE MADE PROGRESS, AND SOON HOPEFULLY THE JETS WILL COME AND WE WILL MAKE PROGRESS.

THAT'S WHY THIS WAR, THIS STRATEGY OF VICTORY NEEDS TO BE PUT AS A PRIORITY.

AND WE NEED THESE WEAPONS TO REGAIN THE TERRITORIES AND HAVE ADVANTAGE ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

>> LET ME PUT TO YOU WHAT A FORMER U.S.

AMBASSADOR TO NATO, KIRK VOLCKER, TOLD ME ABOUT ESSENTIALLY THE GAME PLAN.

YOU TRAVELED TO MEET THE INTERNATIONAL PARTNERS AS YOU SAID AT RAMSTEIN YOU WENT WITH PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY TO THE U.N.

THIS IS WHAT KIRK VOLCKER TOLD ME DURING THAT TIME.

TAKE A LISTEN.

>> TURNING IT TO THE U.S. SIDE, I THINK THERE IS A GROWING SENSE THAT WE DON'T SEE AN END IN SIGHT.

AND YOU HEAR THAT FROM MEMBERS OF CONGRESS.

HOW MUCH IS THIS GOING TO COST?

HOW LONG IS IT GOING TO GO ON?

SO THERE'S A FRUSTRATION THERE.

>> CAN YOU HEAR THE FRUSTRATION FROM THE AMERICAN SIDE?

WHAT IS THE GAME PLAN?

WHAT IS THE END GAME?

AND HOW LONG IS THIS GOING TO GO ON?

>> END GAME IS THAT WHEN WE REACH OUR INTERNATIONAL RECOGNIZED BORDERS, WE BRING RUSSIA TO JUSTICE AND REGAIN OUR OLD TERRITORIES.

SO THE FOCUS SHOULD BE WINNING RUSSIA ON OUR GROUNDS AND TO MAKE THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR ALL THE DAMAGES AND ATROCITIES THEY'VE DONE.

SO WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE HELPING UKRAINE BECAUSE IT'S FOR THE NATIONAL SECURITY REASONS FOR THEIR HOME COUNTRIES BECAUSE RUSSIA WILL NOT STOP.

IT WILL GO AND GO AND GO.

IT HAS BEEN ALL THE CENTURIES FOR THE LAST 300 YEARS IT WAS EXPANSION, IT WAS BRUTALITY, IT WAS KILLINGS.

SO UKRAINE IS DEFENDING THE VALUES THAT PEOPLE SHARE, THE INDEPENDENCE, THE SOVEREIGNTY, THE HUMAN RIGHTS.

SO WE WANT OUR PEOPLE TO BE HAPPY AND BE A PART OF EUROPEAN UNION AND NATO, SO THAT'S WHY WE DEFEND OUR OWN VALUES.

PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAVE GIVEN THE WORLD CLASS I WOULD SAY EXAMPLE OF RESISTANCE, AND IT GIVES BIG HOPE TO PEOPLE.

AN EXAMPLE OF COURAGE, AN EXAMPLE OF RETALIATION AND RESISTANCE, SO THESE VALUES ARE SHARED BY MOST OF OUR PEOPLES AND WITH MOST OF OUR PARTNERS.

SO THIS WAR SHOULD END ONLY WITH ONE CONDITION.

WHEN WE REGAIN ALL OF OUR TERRITORY AND WE REGAIN AND FREE PEOPLE WHY?

BECAUSE AS I SAID RUSSIA SHOULD BE TAKEN ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT IT CALLS TO THE WORLD ORDER, AND THAT'S -- THAT'S PROBABLY THE ANSWER WHEN IT WILL FINISH.

BUT OUR FOCUS AND PRIORITY IS TO FINISH THIS WAR AS SOON AS POSSIBLE WITH VICTORY AND MAKE THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT THEY DID.

>> WHAT IS YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE RUSSIA WAR MACHINE?

YOU KEEP GOING, THE BARRAGE ON ODESA, IT'S CONSIDERED YOU MIGHT BELIEVE THEY'RE TRYING TO SAVE AND STOCKPILE MISSILES FOR AN ATTACK ON YOUR INFRASTRUCTURE AGAIN OVER THE WINTER WHEN IT GETS COLD.

WHAT IS YOUR ASSESSMENT?

>> LET'S NOT BE FOOLED WITH THEIR INTENTIONS.

THEIR INTENTION IS TO NOT TO ALLOW UKRAINE TO BE AN INDEPENDENT AND SOVEREIGN STATE.

THEIR INTENTION, THEY DON'T RECOGNIZE THE UKRAINIANS AS A SOVEREIGN NATION.

THEY WILL BE FOCUSING DURING THE WINTER TIME TO KEEP OUR ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT WE WILL BE RETALIATING.

AND AS I SAID WE'RE MORE FOCUSED ON WHAT OUR ARMY NEEDS, WHAT OUR SOLDIERS NEED, AND HOW TO REGAIN OUR TERRITORIES BACK.

>> FINALLY, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT A VERY STAUNCH ALLY, POLAND, WHICH HAS SAID IT WILL -- IT'S KIND OF CONFUSING, SO I'D LIKE YOU TO CLEAR UP.

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT POLAND TO DO?

WILL IT CONTINUE TO SEND YOU WEAPONS?

THERE WAS A DISPUTE OVER GRAIN.

YOU WERE VERY INSTRUMENTAL IN NEGOTIATING THE ORIGINAL GRAIN EXPORTS ON THE BLACK SEA PORTS AND THINGS.

WHAT'S HAPPENING IN POLAND?

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM THEM?

>> WELL, IN THIS SITUATION AFTER THIS INTERVIEW I'LL BE HAVING A CALL WITH THE MINISTER OF DEFENSE OF POLAND TO DISCUSS OUR COOPERATION, SO I DON'T FIND AT THIS MOMENT ANYTHING PARTICULAR TO BE DISCUSSED ON THE MINISTER OF DEFENSE LEVEL.

AT THE MOMENT THERE IS A CONTINUATION OF OUR WORK IS GOING ON, SO AFTER THIS UPDATE IF YOU GIVE A CALL, I'LL UPDATE YOU MORE.

>> GOOD.

WELL, WE WILL GIVE A CALL.

ARE YOU GETTING WEAPONS FROM THEM NOW OR HAS IT STOPPED?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THE MODALITY WITH PARTNERS JUST FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING, WE CONTINUE EFFORTS.

NOTHING CAN BE -- LET'S SAY MINISTER OF DEFENSE LEVEL HAS BEEN STOPPED.

ALL THE COOPERATION, ALL THE MODALITIES ARE IN PLACE.

>> OKAY, MINISTER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CHRISTIANE, FOR INTERVIEWING.

>>> NOW, IN WASHINGTON THE PENTAGON INSISTS THE LOOMING GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN WOULD NOT AFFECT THE TRAINING OF UKRAINIAN FORCES OR THE TRANSFER OF WEAPONS TO THAT COUNTRY.

BUT WHILE IT WON'T IMPACT UKRAINE IN THE SHORT-TERM, IT HASN'T STOPPED UKRAINE FROM IMPACTING THE SHUTDOWN NEGOTIATIONS.

WITH A GROWING NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS WANTING TO REDUCE FUNDING UKRAINE'S DEFENSE.

IF CONGRESS CANNOT AGREE ON A DEAL TO FUND THE GOVERNMENT, IT WILL SHUTDOWN THIS WEEKEND.

IT'S A FATE THAT'S LOOKING MORE AND MORE LIKELY AS HARD LINE REPUBLICANS THREATEN TO OUST THEIR OWN SPEAKER, KEVIN McCARTHY, IF HE MAKES A DEAL WITH THE DEMOCRATS.

TAKE A LISTEN.

>> SPEAKER McCARTHY EMBRACES A CLEAN CONTINUING RESOLUTION TO CONTINUE THE SPENDING POLICIES OF NANCY PELOSI AND JOE BIDEN.

THAT WOULD MOST LIKELY TRIGGER A MOTION TO VACATE.

>> IF SPEAKER McCARTHY ULTIMATELY ALLOWS A DEAL TO PASS THE DEMOCRATIC VOTES, WOULD YOU CONSIDER OUSTING HIM FROM THE SPEAKER'S CHAIR?

>> THAT IS SOMETHING I'D LOOK STRONGLY AT.

>> WHAT EXACTLY WILL THIS MEAN FOR MILLIONS OF THE FEDERAL WORKERS AND THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO RELY ON GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS?

JOINING ME NOW IS DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN PAT RYAN.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, CONGRESSMAN.

CAN I JUST FIRST START BY ASKING YOU ABOUT UKRAINE?

YOU'RE A FORMER, YOU KNOW, MILITARY PERSON.

YOU HAVE BEEN DEPLOYED.

YOU KNOW ALL ABOUT WHAT THIS IS MEANING TO THE COUNTRY AND TO NATIONAL SECURITY.

DO YOU SEE ANY RISK OF ANY -- ANY SORT OF SHORTFALL IN SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WHAT WE SAY HERE IN WASHINGTON AND IN THE CONGRESS MATTERS.

OUR REPUTATION AS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, NO GREATER FRIEND, NO WORSE ENEMY.

THAT IS AT RISK WHEN YOU SEE THE MAGA EXTREMISTS SIGNALING THAT THEY MIGHT BACK AWAY FROM OUR DEMOCRATIC ALLY FIGHTING FOR THEIR TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY AS YOU HEARD SO COMPEL FROM THE DEFENSE MINISTER.

WE HAVE TO HAVE THEIR BACK ESPECIALLY AT THIS MOMENT.

SO NOT ONLY ARE THERE MATERIAL CONCERNS WHERE WE COULD SEE RESOURCES AND DOLLARS AND WEAPONS SYSTEMS AT RISK, BUT OUR SORT OF STRENGTH OF THE SUPPORT IN TERMS OF THE OPTICS AND THE PERCEPTIONS HAS ALREADY BEEN WEAKENED BY FOLKS LIKE THE GAETZES AND OTHERS WHO WANT TO TURN THEIR BACK ON OUR DEMOCRATIC ALLY RIGHT WHEN THEY NEED US THE MOST.

>> SOME OF OUR DEMOCRATIC ALLIES SAYS IT SENDS A TERRIBLE SIGNAL TO ADVERSARIES WHO ARE WATCHING THIS.

SO DO YOU THINK THERE IS A REAL AND IMPORTANT MATERIAL SOFTENING OF BIPARTISAN SUPPORT IN CONGRESS FOR THE WHOLE IDEA OF AMERICAN AND NATO SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE?

>> I'M -- YES, I'M VERY CONCERNED.

AND I DON'T THINK FOLKS FULLY APPRECIATE HOW EXTREME TODAY'S REPUBLICAN PARTY IS HERE IN WASHINGTON ON A WHOLE BUNCH OF ISSUES BUT PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO BACKING OUR SMALL "D" DEMOCRATIC ALLIES LIKE UKRAINE IN THE FIGHT OF THEIR LIVES.

I WOULD GUESS THAT OVER HALF OF THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS RIGHT NOW WOULD NOT SUPPORT IF PRESSED CONTINUING MILITARY AID TO OUR ALLY AT SUCH A CRITICAL MOMENT, WHICH NOT ONLY MATTERS IN EUROPE BUT ALSO MATTERS SIGNIFICANTLY IN THE INDO-PACIFIC WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT HOW CHINA VIEWS OUR WILL TO SUPPORT OUR ALLIES VISA VI TAIWAN AND OTHER CRITICAL ISSUES.

SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I HOPE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE UNDERSTAND, AND I HOPE THEY SEND A MESSAGE TO THEIR REPRESENTATIVES THAT WE ALL NEED TO BE IN LOCK STEP, BIPARTISAN SUPPORTING OUR ALLY.

OF COURSE WE NEED TO HAVE AND THEY DO HAVE A CLEAR STRATEGY TO WIN.

OF COURSE WE NEED TO HAVE OVERSIGHT, AND WE DO HAVE OVERSIGHT.

SO NOW LET'S GO DO IT, LET'S GO WIN, AND I'M CONFIDENT THAT THEY CAN AND THEY WILL.

>> JUST TO COMMENT I WONDER WHETHER THE OPPONENTS REALIZE THAT THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT PUTIN HAS BEEN SAYING.

I MEAN ARE THEY JUST GOING TO WAIT AMERICA AND NATO OUT?

CAN I SWITCH TOPICS BECAUSE TODAY AS WE SPEAK PRESIDENT BIDEN IS I BELIEVE THE FIRST EVER SITTING PRESIDENT TO JOIN A PICKET LINE.

HE'S IN MICHIGAN WITH THE UNITED AUTO WORKERS, AND DO YOU SUPPORT THAT?

DO YOU SUPPORT THE STRIKE?

WE'RE SEEING PICTURES OF IT AS THE PRESIDENT ARRIVED THERE.

AND HE IS ADDRESSING THEM AND SHOWING SOLIDARITY.

FIRST OF ALL, DO YOU SUPPORT HIS MOVE TO BE ON THAT PICKET LINE IN ALSO WHAT'S A HISTORIC STRIKE?

>> YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, CHRISTIANE, THIS IS HISTORIC.

I FULLY SUPPORT WORKERS.

I FULLY SUPPORT UNIONS.

I'M PROUD OF PRESIDENT BIDEN SHOWING NOT JUST SUPPORT BUT ACTION HE STANDS WITH UNIONS.

CORPORATIONS AROUND THE WORLD ARE MAKING RECORD BREAKING PROFITS, AND THE PEOPLE DOING THE WORK IN OUR UNIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND IN MY DISTRICT INCLUDING HUDSON VALLEY, NEW YORK, SHOULD SHARE IN THAT GREATER PROSPERITY THAT CEOs AND BIG CORPORATIONS HAVE HAD, BUT THEY'RE NOT.

RECORD STAGNATION IN WAGES, AND SO THIS IS ABOUT STANDING WITH WORKING PEOPLE.

AND THE PRESIDENT GOING HIMSELF IS VERY IMPORTANT.

I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD ALL BE PROUD OF.

>> AND CLEARLY, YOU KNOW, SOME CERTAINLY IN HIS PARTY HOPE AND PROBABLY THE PRESIDENT HOPES THIS WILL SHORE UP HIS SUPPORT FOR UNION SUPPORT DURING THE NEXT ELECTION.

BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE ECONOMICS AROUND THIS BECAUSE WHEN PRESIDENT BIDEN TALKS ABOUT AND WHAT WE ALL DECIDE DECLARED AS RIGHTLY UNPRECEDENTED INVESTMENT IN THE CLIMATE AND IN NEW JOBS ALIGNED WITH GREEN JOBS, HE SAYS THE CLEAN ENERGY ECONOMY SHOULD ALSO BE A WIN-WIN FOR AUTO COMPANIES AND UNION WORKERS.

WHEN I THINK CLIMATE I THINK JOBS.

WHEN I SAY CLIMATE MEANS JOBS, I MEAN GOOD PAYING UNION JOBS.

I WONDER WHERE THAT STORY IS NOT BEING TOLD BECAUSE MANY AUTO WORKERS WORRY THAT THE SHIFT TO ELECTRIC VEHICLES WILL MEAN THE OPPOSITE, FEWER JOBS, LOWER PAY.

HOW DO YOU CONVINCE THE PEOPLE THAT THE PRESIDENT'S, YOU KNOW, GREEN ECONOMY AND HIS INFRASTRUCTURE AND INVESTMENTS ACTUALLY MATTER TO THEM?

>> WELL, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

IT'S ABOUT, OF COURSE, MAKING THAT COMMITMENT WHICH THE PRESIDENT HAS, I HAVE, WE ALL HAVE.

BUT THEN LET'S SEE THE PROOF IN THE PUDDING.

AND WE ARE SEEING IT.

IN MY DISTRICT ALONE NORTH OF NEW YORK CITY TWO HOURS WE ARE ADDING THOUSANDS OF GOOD PAYING UNION JOBS LITERALLY AS WE SPEAK HERE BUILDING CLEAN ENERGY FACILITIES, BUILDING INFRASTRUCTURE, ROADS, BRIDGES, BROADBAND.

THAT TAKES TIME.

IT DOESN'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT, BUT WE ARE SEEING THAT.

WE ARE SEEING WAGES FINALLY COME UP FOR WORKING PEOPLE, FOR UNION MEMBERS.

IN NEW YORK WE'RE SEEING UNION ENROLLMENT INCREASE AS PEOPLE SEE THE IMPORTANCE OF THAT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AND THE STRENGTH AND POWER OF WORKING PEOPLE.

SO I THINK THAT WE ARE FINALLY HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION HERE IN THE COUNTRY WITH RECORD BIPARTISAN INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT WITH SEMICONDUCTORS AND THE CHIPS ACT WITH THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT AND CLEAN ENERGY.

IT ALL COMES TOGETHER, AND IT GIVES DIRECTIONALITY TO THE UNITED STATES ECONOMY WHERE WE ARE GOING TO BE BACK LEADING ACROSS THE GLOBE RATHER THAN BEING ON THE RECEIVING END OF THE ECONOMY THAT'S REALLY HURT WORKERS FOR DECADES.

>> SPECIFICALLY TO THE AUTO WORKERS HOW DOES CONVERSION TO ELECTRIC VEHICLES NOT HURT THEM?

HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT CASE?

>> WELL, THIS IS REALLY ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THAT THE MARKET IS ALREADY GOING IN THE DIRECTION OF HYBRID AND ELECTRIC VEHICLES ACROSS THE WORLD.

NOT ONLY IS IT A MORAL IMPERATIVE I BELIEVE TO REDUCE GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS, BUT THIS IS WHAT CONSUMERS INCREASINGLY WANT, AND I SEE THIS IN OUR OWN DISTRICT AND IN FACT IN OUR OWN HOUSEHOLD WHERE WE BOUGHT OUR FIRST HYBRID.

SO THIS IS ABOUT ACTUALLY POSITIONING WORKERS AND AUTO COMPANIES TO BE -- AND CONTINUE TO BE AS AMERICANS IN THE LEAD IN THE NEXT EVOLUTION OF TRANSPORTATION.

AND SO THOSE TRANSITIONS, OF COURSE REQUIRE NEW INVESTMENTS.

THEY REQUIRE SOME CHANGE.

AND IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO GO BACK TO YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION THAT AS THAT CHANGE IS HAPPENING, EVERYONE FROM THE PRESIDENT ON DOWN SUPPORTS WORKERS, CENTERS WORKERS AND WORKING PEOPLE AND FAMILIES TO MAKE SURE THAT AS WE MAKE THESE TRANSITIONS, WAGES ACTUALLY GO UP, WHICH WE ARE SEEING.

>> CONGRESSMAN RYAN, GETTING BACK TO THE NITTY-GRITTY OF THE POTENTIAL SHUTDOWN, DO YOU SEE ANY WAY AT THIS POINT TO AVOID A SHUTDOWN?

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG BY THIS WEEKEND IF NOTHING HAPPENS THERE WILL BE A SHUTDOWN.

>> CORRECT.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HEADING TOWARDS NOW.

WE HAVE TO AVERT IT.

WE HAVE TO AVERT IT FOR NATIONAL SECURITY REASONS, ECONOMIC REASONS, FOR THE WELL-BEING OF THOUSANDS IN MY DISTRICT AND MILLIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THE WAY I THINK ABOUT IT IS ARE PEOPLE HERE PARTICULARLY THOSE IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WHO ARE IN CHARGE OF THE HOUSE RIGHT NOW, ARE THEY GOING TO BE PATRIOTS, OR ARE THEY GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE POLITICIANS?

WE NEED MORE PACHERANTS IN CONGRESS RIGHT NOW WOO WANT TO BRING US TOGETHER WHO WANTS WANT TO PASS WHETHER IT'S A CONTINUING RESOLUTION TO BUY US A LITTLE MORE TIME OR I HOPE ACTUALLY PASS A SENSIBLE BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT AND MOVE US FORWARD AND FUND THE GOVERNMENT.

WE AGREED TO THIS SEVERAL MONTHS AGO BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN, UNFORTUNATELY, McCARTHY AND HIS MAGA EXTREMISTS BREAK THAT PROMISE.

SO I'M STILL HOLDING OUT HOPE, BUT IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE McCARTHY AND HIS EXTREME ALLIES TO ACTUALLY PUT THE COUNTRY FIRST.

>> SO THIS IS WHAT THE SPEAKER ACTUALLY SAID TO REPORTERS, YOU KNOW, SHORTLY AFTER DOING -- FALLING VICTIM TO EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID, NOT BEING ABLE TO GET AN ACTUAL DEBATE ON THE FLOOR TO PUT THIS PEOPLE.

HERE'S WHAT HE SAID.

>> IT'S FRUSTRATING IN THE SENSE THAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY ANYBODY VOTES AGAINST BRINGING THE IDEA OF HAVING THE DEBATE.

AND THEN YOU'VE GOT ALL THE AMENDMENTS FUYOU DON'T LIKE THEM.

THIS IS A WHOLE NEW CONCEPT OF INDIVIDUALS THAT WANT TO BURN THE PLACE DOWN.

IT DOESN'T WORK.

>> SO CAN WE JUST BREAK THAT DOWN, THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF INDIVIDUALS WHO WANT TO BURN THE WHOLE PLACE DOWN?

THOSE ARE THE VERY INDIVIDUALS WHO I ASSUME HE STILL OWES HIS SPEAKERSHIP TO.

HOW DOES HE BREAK THROUGH THAT?

HOW DOES HE DO IT AND SURVIVE?

>> AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

WHEN YOU SELL YOUR SOUL TO BECOME THE SPEAKER IN PURSUIT OF YOUR OWN PERSONAL AMBITION AND POWER, WHICH SADLY AND CLEARLY HE HAS, YOU'RE THEN BEHOLDEN TO THOSE FORCES.

SO WHAT HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO DO AS I SAID IS RISE ABOVE HIS PERSONAL AMBITION AND HIS PARTISAN POLITICS AND BE A PATRIOT AND REACH OUT TO DEMOCRATS, MYSELF INCLUDED, WHO ARE READY AND WILLING AND ACTUALLY HAVE A DISCHARGE PETITION TO GET A LITTLE BIT INTO THE WEEDS READY TO GO TO PASS A CONTINUING RESOLUTION TO MOVE THE COUNTRY FORWARD AND TO SAVE SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC PAIN FOR WORKING PEOPLE, THE SAME WORKING PEOPLE WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT A MOMENT AGO.

>> AND I'M GOING TO ASK YOU A BIT MORE ABOUT THEM.

BUT FIRST, YOU MUST TALK TO FELLOW REPUBLICANS REPRESENTATIVES REPRESENTING UP STATE DISTRICTS LIKE YOURSELF.

WHAT DO THEY SAY?

WHAT DO THEY SAY PRIVATELY?

>> MY NEW YORK REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES HAVE BOTH PRIVATELY AND PUBLICLY BEEN CLEAR THEY'RE ALSO EXTREMELY FRUSTRATED.

THEY SHARE THAT SAME SENTIMENT YOU HEARD FROM KEVIN McCARTHY THAT THESE ARE FOLKS THAT DON'T WANT TO GOVERN, THEY'VE NEVER BEEN SERIOUS ABOUT GOVERNING.

THEY WANT TO BURN DOWN THE HOUSE AND TAKE THE COUNTRY AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WITH THEM.

THE PROBLEM IS ALL OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS ALLOWED THESE TOXIC, DIVISIVE FORCES TO TAKE AN INCREASING STRANGLEHOLD OVER THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AS THE MAGA WING OF THE PARTY IS CONTROLLING -- YOU SEE GAETZ AND MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE LITERALLY DRIVING THE ACTION HERE.

THAT'S VERY DANGEROUS FOR OUR DEMOCRACY IN THE LONG RUN AND CLEARLY FOR THE FUNCTION OF THE GOVERNMENT IN THE IMMEDIATE TERM.

>> LET'S JUST TALK -- I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT THIS WILL MEAN TO ACTUAL INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE WHO DEPEND ON GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS.

>> WELL, SO THERE'S A BUNCH OF IMPLICATIONS.

ONE I HAVE NEARLY 10,000 FEDERAL EMPLOYEES IN MY DISTRICT ALONE WHO WOULD HAVE NO PAYCHECK, NO ABILITY TO PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE FOR THEIR FAMILIES AND NO PREDICTABILITY WHEN THEY'D GET BACK TO WORK AGAIN.

THEN YOU TALK ABOUT ALL THE CRITICAL PROGRAMS FROM FUNDING OUR TROOPS IN HARMS WAY OF MILITARY PAY AND THEIR FAMILIES, TO VETERANS AFFAIRS APPOINTMENTS, SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICARE.

ALL THOSE OFFICES ARE FORCED TO CLOSE.

EVEN OUR OWN OFFICE PROVIDING CRITICAL CONSTITUENT SERVICES AND ALL THE OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS AROUND THE COUNTRY IS ALSO IMPACTED, SO THERE ARE REAL-WORLD VERY SIGNIFICANT CONSEQUENCES TO THIS.

AND I'VE HEARD SOME OF THE EXTREMISTS SAY, OH, THERE'S NO PROBLEM, THERE'S NO IMPACT IF THERE'S A SHUTDOWN.

THAT IS JUST ABSOLUTELY DISCONNECTED FROM REALITY.

THEY NEED TO TALK TO THE PEOPLE IN THEIR DISTRICT.

I WAS HOME THIS WEEKEND AND ACROSS THE BOARD SIGNIFICANT CONCERNS, SIGNIFICANT WORRY.

AND RIGHTLY SO.

WE HAVE TO AS I SAID COME TOGETHER AS PATRIOTS, AS AMERICANS AND ACTUALLY COMPROMISE, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE HERE TO DO ULTIMATELY AND MOVE US FORWARD.

>> AND ONE OF THE MASSIVE ISSUES OBVIOUSLY IS MIGRATION.

WE KNOW WE HAVE A BROKEN IMMIGRATION SYSTEM, BUT RIGHT NOW THE INFLUX ACROSS THE BORDER, THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NEW YORK DEMOCRATS AND THE WHITE HOUSE ON THIS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO BE A SOLUTION?

I THINK YOU SAID YOU NEED TO CALL A STATE OF EMERGENCY TO ADDRESS THE CRISIS IN YOUR STATE -- AND A FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY.

WHAT IS THE BEST WAY FORWARD?

WOULD SOMEBODY LIKE YOURSELF ACCEPT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF MIGRANTS IN YOUR DISTRICT, FOR INSTANCE?

>> SO FOR MONTHS MYSELF IN A BIPARTISAN WAY AND COLLEAGUES HAVE BEEN CALLING FOR US TO RECOGNIZE THIS IS A -- IT'S A HUMANITARIAN CRISIS.

WE HAVE IN NEW YORK ALONE OVER 100,000 PEOPLE INCLUDING YOUNG KIDS AND FAMILIES THAT ARE TRYING TO DO WHAT THEY CAME HERE TO DO AND MAKE A BETTER LIFE AND HAVE THE SAME DREAM THAT MY IRISH ANCESTORS HAD FIVE GENERATIONS AGO, AND THAT'S NOT HAPPENING BECAUSE THEIR SYSTEM IS BROKEN.

SO WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE IT AS A CRISIS.

I WILL SAY THERE'S A MAJOR POSITIVE AND SIGNIFICANT STEP THAT HAPPENED LAST WEEK WHEN PRESIDENT BIDEN SHOWED REAL LEADERSHIP AND GRANTED ESSENTIALLY THE ABILITY TO WORK TO NEARLY 500,000 VENEZUELANS FLEEING INCREDIBLE STRIFE IN THEIR COUNTRY.

IN NEW YORK ALONE THAT'S ABOUT 50,000 FOLKS WHO WEREN'T ABLE TO WORK AND NOW WILL BE ABLE TO MUCH MORE QUICKLY GET TO WORK.

NOT ONLY IS THAT GOOD FOR THOSE FAMILIES, OUR ECONOMY ESPECIALLY IN UP STATE NEW YORK NEEDS WORKERS FROM FARMS TO SMALL BUSINESSES AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN, SO THERE IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR A WIN-WIN IN THE SAME WAY WE'VE WELCOMED IMMIGRANTS FROM OUR COUNTRY'S FOUNDING.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY THERE ARE EXTREMISTS, THE SAME EXTREMISTS THAT WANT TO SHUTDOWN THE GOVERNMENT THAT ACTUALLY DON'T WANT TO SEE PROGRESS ON THIS.

AND YOU'VE SEEN THEM, THE SAME FOLKS CONDEMN A VERY CONSTRUCTIVE STEP BY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION BECAUSE THEY DON'T ACTUALLY WANT TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

THEY WANT TO CONTINUE TO STOKE PARTISAN DIVISION.

>> AND VERY BRIEFLY I THINK WE'VE GOT 30 SECONDS.

DO YOU THINK THIS CONTINUING CRISIS COULD DERAIL OR SEVERELY IMPACT DEMOCRATS HOPES IN BLUE STATES IN 2024?

>> WELL, IT'S ABOUT SOLVING THE PROBLEM.

WE HAVE TO SHOW AS THE PRESIDENT JUST DID LAST WEEK, WE UNDERSTAND IT'S SERIOUS.

WE'RE TAKING REAL CONCRETE STEPS TO ADDRESS IT, WHICH HE DID WITH THIS EXTENSION OF THE TPS AUTHORITY, AND WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO MAKE THAT PROGRESS, AND I'M CONFIDENT HE WILL, THAT WE'LL ALL WORK TOGETHER WITH THAT.

AS LONG AS WE GOVERN WELL, THEN I THINK WE'LL CONTINUE TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LEAD, MYSELF INCLUDED.

>> ALL RIGHT, REPRESENTATIVE RYAN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>>> NOW, AS WE HEARD WITH THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN LOOMING THE ABILITY TO PROCESS THIS INFLUX AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER IS CAUSING CONCERN.

THE MAYOR OF THE BORDER TOWN EAGLE PASS IS EXTENDING THE CITY'S EMERGENCY DISASTER DECLARATION AS THOUSANDS CROSS INTO TEXAS.

A SENIOR FELLOW AT THE MIGRATION POLICY INSTITUTE JOINS US TO DISCUSS WHERE THIS GOES NEXT.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

JUST RECENTLY WE HAD THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION ANNOUNCE TPS, TEMPORARY PROTECTION STATUS -- PROTECTIVE STATUS TO HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO HAD COME ACROSS OUR BORDER FROM VENEZUELA BEFORE AUGUST.

WHAT DOES TPS MEAN FOR ALL THESE INDIVIDUALS?

>> TEMPORARY PROTECTIVE STATUS IS A PROVISION OF THE LAW ORIGINALLY IN 1990 WHICH ALLOWS THE U.S. TO SUSPEND THE DEPORTATION AND PROVIDE AUTHORIZATION FROM A COUNTRY WE HAVE DESIGNATED IS UNSAFE TO GO TO.

IT'S MEANT FOR POLITICAL TURMOIL, CLIMATE CRISES, EARTHQUAKES, AND BEEN USED A NUMBER OF TIMES SINCE 1990.

THIS IS THE MOST ITERATION OF THAT.

VENEZUELA IS A UNIQUE SITUATION IN THE NEW MIGRATION FLOWS.

WE'RE ABOUT 7.2 MILLION VENEZUELANS WHO HAVE LEFT THE COUNTRY SINCE THE POLITICAL CRISIS THERE.

AND THEY'RE BOUND TO ABOUT 16 CARIBBEAN AND SOUTH CARIBBEAN COUNTRIES.

AFTER COVID HIT MANY OF THOSE COUNTRIES THEY STARTED MIGRATING TO THE U.S.

IT'S A MORE RECESS CRISIS FOR THE U.S.

BUT A MORE BIG CRISIS.

FOR THOSE PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES WILL BE GIVEN PROTECTION.

THE IDEA OF HAVING CUT OFF IT SHOULD NOT PROVIDE INCENTIVES FOR MORE PEOPLE TO COME BECAUSE THIS DOESN'T GUARANTEE MORE PEOPLE TO BE COVERED.

>> DOES THAT WORK, THOUGH?

RIGHT NOW WE'RE HEARING REPORTS THERE ARE THOUSANDS MORE PEOPLE BASICALLY TRYING TO GET THROUGH THE DARION GAP, THIS AREA NORTH OF PANAMA TO COME INTO MEXICO AND ONTO THE UNITED STATES.

IS THAT SIGNAL BEING SENT LOUD AND CLEAR?

BECAUSE WHAT THEY'RE HEARING AT THE SAME TIME WHILE THEY'RE HEARING ABOUT A GAP IS, WOW, THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF VENEZUELANS GOT THIS PROTECTIVE STATUS SO MAYBE THERE'LL BE ANOTHER PROTECTIVE STATUS FOR ME IF THERE'S A NEW DEADLINE SAY SEPTEMBER OR OCTOBER?

>> YOU'RE RIGHT.

THIS IS THE DILEMMA THE ADMINISTRATION FACES.

THEY'VE TRIED TO CREATE CARROTS AND STICKS IN MIGRATION POLICIES THROUGHOUT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

THEY'VE ALLOWED VEN SWALE WANS TO ENTER THE PROGRAM CALLED THE PAROLE PROGRAM THAT IF YOU'RE SPONSORED BY A U.S. CITIZEN, YOU CAN ACTUALLY FLY INTO THE U.S. FROM ABROAD.

THERE ARE THOSE SPOTS AVAILABLE.

I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO INCENTIVIZE THEM TO USE THOSE AS COMING UNLAWFULLY INTO THE COUNTRY.

YOU'RE RIGHT, THAT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THAT STAKE IS GOING TO BE DETERMINE BY HOW ROBUST OUR ENFORCEMENT IS.

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY WHICH PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND IS HOW COOPERATIVE MEXICO IS GOING TO BE.

BECAUSE IF THEY'RE GOING TO RETURN PEOPLE, THEY'RE GOING TO GO TO MEXICO.

AND IF MEXICO DOESN'T ALLOW THEM BACK, THEN WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM.

AND SO I THINK THE NEGOTIATIONS WITH MEXICO ARE IN HIGH GEAR.

AND THEN ENFORCEMENT MEASURES WILL DECIDE HOW EFFECTIVE THE DETERRENT IS.

>> TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT I GUESS TO TAKE A STEP BACK WHAT QUALIFIES AS AN ASYLUM SEEKER?

BECAUSE WE HAVE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE SHOWING UP AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER ASKING FOR ASYLUM.

YOU KNOW, THE SENATE WILL SAY WELL THEY'VE BEEN COACHED TO SAY THAT, AND THE PERSON WHO WANTS TO HEAR THEIR PLIGHT WILL SAY THEY'RE ACTUALLY RUNNING IN FEAR FOR THEIR LIVES.

BUT WHAT IS IT TECHNICALLY THAT QUALIFIES WITHIN THE CATEGORY OF WHAT ASYLUM IS FOR INUNITED STATES?

>> SURE THE VENEZUELAN TPS IS DIFFERENT FROM ASYLUM.

ASYLUM IS ANOTHER ROUTE FOR PEOPLE TO COME.

BUT YOU'RE RIGHT ASYLUM IS GENERALLY THE DEFAULT MECHANISM THROUGH WHICH PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE AUTHORIZATION TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES ENTER.

AND SOME PEOPLE RIGHTLY SAY THEY GO AND WELCOME ASYLUM.

THE BORDER CHALLENGE IN THE PAST WAS ABOUT SINGLE MEXICAN MALES SNEAKING THROUGH THE BORDER AND LOOKING FOR WORK, NOW WE HAVE A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE FROM COUNTRIES ALL OVER THE WORLD WITH FAMILIES WHO COME AND SEEK ASYLUM.

NOW ASYLUM IS OUR COMMITMENT BOTH UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW AND NATIONAL LAW, WHICH MEANS WE CAN'T REMOVE A PERSON WHO CLAIMS THAT THEY'RE IN THE FEAR OF FACING PERSECUTION.

BUT THOSE PERSECUTION GROUNDS ARE VERY NARROW.

THEY CAN BE ON THE BASIS OF YOUR RACE, RELIGION, SOCIAL GROUP, POLITICAL OPINION.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE I THINK OUR PROBLEM IS.

IT'S NOT OUR ASYLUM SYSTEM IS BROKEN.

IT JUST IS BACKLOGGED.

IT TAKE YEARS FOR PEOPLE TO GET THEIR PROCESS CLAIM -- THEIR CLAIM PROCESS.

THAT MEANS PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY DON'T DESERVE IT GET IT FOR A LONG TIME AND PEOPLE WHO DESERVE IT ARE CLOGGING THE SYSTEM.

WE REALLY HAVE TO ADDRESS THE ASYLUM SYSTEM, MAKE IT MORE EFFICIENT AND FAIR AT THE SAME TIME.

>> YOU KNOW, THE ASYLUM SYSTEM IN SPECIFIC AND THEN EVEN MORE BROADLY HOW WE PROCESS INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE TRYING TO GAIN ACCESS TO THE UNITED STATES, THIS HAS BEEN A PROBLEM FOR DECADES NOW, BUT IF THERE'S BEEN A WAY TO SUMMARIZE HOW THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S APPROACHED IMMIGRATION IN THIS CHALLENGE, WHAT'S THAT BEEN?

>> I WOULD SAY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS TRIED TO ESTABLISH INCENTIVES AND DISINCENTIVES.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION DECIDED TO DEFINE THE BORDER CRISIS AS ONE OF OPTICS, THAT THIS IS THE SPECTER OF HOARDS OF PEOPLE IN A MISMANAGED WAY TRYING TO ENTER THE U.S. AND JUST DOES NOT LOOK GOOD ON TELEVISION CAMERAS.

SO THEY TRIED TO CREATE ORDER IN THE SYSTEM.

IN THE PROCESS WHAT HAS HAPPENED THEY'VE ALLOWED LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE TO COME IN AN ORDERLY WAY, WHICH THEN HAS DOWNSTREAM EFFECT ON CITIES AND STATES.

THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE SEEN EXHIBITED IN THE LAST YEAR OR SO.

SO I THINK THEY AT SOME POINT WE'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK, THAT WE REALLY HAVE TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO COME IN AN ORDERLY WAY.

THEY'RE TRYING TO ESTABLISH THIS CBP APP ONE THROUGH WHICH PEOPLE CAN GET APPOINTMENTS.

THEN THEY'VE TRIED TO INCENTIVIZE PEOPLE TO COME THROUGH PORTS OF ENTRY.

WE HAVE TO REALLY GET THE ASYLUM SYSTEM GOING IN A ROBUST WAY SO THAT WE SCREEN PEOPLE AT THE BORDER AND LET PEOPLE TO PROCESS THEIR APPLICATIONS INSIDE THE U.S., NOT BEFORE A CLOGGED IMMIGRATION COURT SYSTEM BUT BEFORE ASYLUM OFFICERS WHO ARE OFFICERS OF THE USCIS, AND THAT PROCESS COULD TAKE MONTHS.

>> I'M SITTING IN THIS CONVERSATION IN NEW YORK CITY, AND NEW YORK IS FACING A TREMENDOUS CRUSH OF HUMAN BEINGS THAT ARE USING RESOURCES.

THE CITY'S MAYOR, ERIC ADAMS, HAS HAD TO, YOU KNOW, WALK BACK COMMENTS EXPRESSING SOME OF HIS FRUSTRATION BEFORE.

GIVE US AN IDEA OF WHAT IT'S DOING TO A PLACE LIKE NEW YORK OR EVEN ANOTHER MAJOR CITY IN THE UNITED STATES WHERE THERE ARE A LOT OF VENEZUELANS OR MIGRANTS THAT FIND THEIR WAY HERE?

>> THAT'S THE QUESTION ON A LOT OF PEOPLES MINDS, THAT WHY DID THIS PRESENT CHAPTER OF MIGRATION TO A PLACE LIKE NEW YORK BECOME SO DIFFERENT THAN IT HAS IN THE PAST?

AND 1THEN,000 MIGRANTS HAVE COME TO NEW YORK CITY IN THE LAST 16 MONTHS.

100,000 PEOPLE IN A CITY OF 8 MILLION WHICH HAS A HUGE HISTORY OF ACCEPTING IMMIGRANTS AND CELEBRATING IS NOT A LARGE NUMBER.

WHAT MAKES THIS CHAPTER DIFFERENT IS THEY CAME IN A VISIBLE TARGETED, CONCENTRATED WAY.

INITIALLY DRIVP BY POLITICAL MOTIVE BY SOUTHERN GOVERNMENTS, AND THEN WE REALIZE THAT NEW YORK CITY HAS THIS CONSENT DECREE FROM 1981, WHICH PROVIDES HOUSING FOR EVERYONE AS A MATTER OF RIGHT.

NOW, THAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN OUR HISTORY BEFORE.

WHEN IMMIGRANTS COME, THEY'RE ORGANICALLY INTEGRATED INTO THE SOCIAL FIBER AND ECONOMY OF THE CITY.

AND THEY'VE GENERALLY SEEN THEREFORE THE NET BENEFIT.

ALMOST ALL BENEFIT AT NO COST BECAUSE THEY PROVIDE THEIR LABOR.

THEY PROVIDE TAX CONTRIBUTION AND TAKE VERY LITTLE PUBLIC BENEFITS.

IN THIS CASE IT BECAME A DRAIN ON THE PUBLIC BENEFITS BECAUSE OF HOUSING.

AND NEW YORK IS ONE OF THE WORLD'S MOST EXPENSIVE HOUSING MARKETS, SO IT BECAME, YOU KNOW, THE NEW YORK CITY MAYOR SAYS WE'RE GOING TO SPEND ABOUT $12 BILLION IN THE NEXT THREE YEARS AND THAT IS A LARGE TICKET, AND THAT'S SORT OF WHAT'S GOTTEN PEOPLE CONCERNED ABOUT IT.

>> SO WHERE SHOULD THAT FINANCIAL BURDEN LIE, SO THE CITY'S MAY, THE GOVERNOR OF THE STATE BOTH UNDERSTANDS THE BENEFITS THESE HUMAN BEINGS PROVIDE TO THE ECONOMY, BUT AT THE SAME TIME $12 BILLION DOESN'T MATERIALIZE OUT OF THIN AIR, AND I CAN SEE THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY OR THE STATE SAYING, WAIT A MINUTE, I DON'T WANT TO FOOT PART OF THAT BILL.

>> I THINK THERE ARE TWO POLICY THINGS THAT ONE MUST ADDRESS FROM HERE.

ONE IS AS I SAID ABOUT THE ASYLUM REFORM, THAT'S CRITICAL.

I THINK THAT WILL PROBABLY AFFECT.

BUT IN NEW YORK CITY I THINK WE'RE STUCK WITH THE CONSENT DECREE OF 1981.

WHICH I BELIEVE -- LISTEN, I'M NOT A HOUSING EXPERT.

I'M AN IMMIGRATION EXPERT, SO TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT.

I DON'T THINK THAT DECREE WEZ MEANT FOR THIS POPULATION.

THAT WAS MEANT FOR HOMELESS MEN DYING FROM FROSTBITE.

SO IT'S CLEAR PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS THE INTENDED POPULATION OF DECREE WAS.

SO PEOPLE SHOULD NOT GET EASY ACCESS TO CITY SHELTER.

THEY SHOULD INTEGRATE THROUGH FAMILY NETWORKS, FAMILIAL AND SOCIAL NETWORKS FROM THEIR VILLAGES AND COUNTRIES.

THAT PEOPLE HAVE HISTORICALLY RELIED ON.

>> DO YOU SEE THE STEPS THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS TAKEN TO EXTEND TEMPORARY PROTECTIVE STATUS TO VENEZUELANS EASING ANY OF THOSE PRESSURES ON, SAY, THE CITY OF NEW YORK?

BECAUSE AT THIS POINT THESE FOLKS WILL NOT HAVE TO LIVE IN THE SHADOWS OR LIVE IN THE SHELTERS.

AND THEY PERHAPS WILL BE ALLOWED TO GAINFULLY EMPLOY THEMSELVES AND BECOME, I GUESS, THE CITY'S HOPING THEY ARE LESS OF A BURDEN ON THE CITY.

>> YEAH, THAT'S THE SECOND I THINK POLICY ISSUE THE ADMINISTRATION IS FOCUSED ON.

I THINK HERE THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WAS SLOW TO ACT.

THEY SHOULD HAVE REALIZED THIS IS NOT ANOTHER CHAPTER IN AMERICAN IMMIGRATION HISTORY, THAT THIS IS A CRISIS.

AND WE SHOULD HAVE TREATED IT LIKE THE WAY WE TREAT THE REFUGEE CRISIS.

WHEN REFUGEES COME TO OUR COUNTRY, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DECIDES WHERE THEY GO.

WE DECIDE TO SEND PEOPLE EITHER THEY HAVE FAMILIES OR THEY HAVE RICHER PLACES WHERE THEY CAN GET EASILY INTEGRATED WHERE THE HOUSING MARKET IS LOW, AND I THINK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD SAY AT THE BORDER IF WE'RE GOING TO TRAIN THESE PEOPLE, WE'RE GOING TO PROCESS THEM AT THE BORDER, AND AT THE BORDER THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO DECIDE WHICH CITIES AND WHICH STATES THEY GOTO.

ONCE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DECIDES IT'S GOING TO BE NOT NEW YORK CITY, NOT SAN FRANCISCO BUT GOING TO GO TO PLACES WHERE THE HOUSING MARKET IS NOT AS EXPENSIVE.

IF WE DO THAT I THINK THERE'LL BE A COORDINATED RESPONSE AND NEW YORK WILL NOT HAVE TO HAVE THE BURDEN THAT IT DOES.

>> WHEN WE LOOK AT THE PLACES, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE MOST OF THE MIGRANTS ARE COMING INTO THE UNITED STATES, TEXAS BEARS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF THAT STRAIN.

THERE ARE STATES OF EMERGENCY THAT HAVE BEEN DECLARED IN SEVERAL TOWNS ACROSS TEXAS NOW.

HOW MUCH OF THAT IS POLITICAL OR PRACTICAL CAN BE DEBATED, BUT THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT'S THE GIANT PORT OF ENTRY, THE GIANT LAND BORDER WHERE THIS CROSSING IS HAPPENING.

I WONDER BECAUSE OF THAT AND THE ACTIONS OF GOVERNOR ABBOTT FROM TEXAS, THE ACCELERATED POLITICAL NATURE OF THIS CONVERSATION, IS THIS A SITUATION NOW WHERE GOVERNOR ABBOTT BY WILL OF HIS ACTIONS OVER THE PAST YEAR AND A HALF IS WINNING THAT ARGUMENT AGAINST A KATHY HOCHUL OF NEW YORK OR AN ERIC ADAMS?

>> I THINK GOVERNOR HOCHUL ACTUALLY ADMITTED LAST WEEK THAT HE HAD WON THE ARGUMENT.

I THINK HE DID FIND THE OPENING WORDS HERE.

I THINK IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN POLITICALLY MOTIVATED INITIALLY, BUT HE DID STRIKE THE MESSAGE THAT THIS IS A CRISIS, AND I THINK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT INSTEAD OF TREATING THIS LIKE THE REPUBLICAN VERSUS DEMOCRAT, BORDER CITIES VERSUS INSIDE BLUE CITIES, THE PRESIDENT AS I SAID EARLIER SHOULD HAVE CONVENED IF NOT ALL 50 GOVERNORS, AT LEAST THE GOVERNORS OF IMPACTED STATES.

SAY, LOOK, WE ARE IN A DIFFERENT PLACE, LET'S DO THIS TOGETHER.

WE KNOW THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE A FOOD FIGHT.

AND THEN ALLOCATED FEDERAL RESOURCES TO MAKE IT HAPPEN SO THAT THIS WOULD BECOME A COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY AS AGAINST THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ONLY SOUTHERN STATES WHICH ARE IMPACTED IN THE INITIAL STAGES OF MIGRATION AND NEW YORK WHICH IS IMPACTED AS THE DESTINATION STATE.

WE'VE ENDURED.

THE ADMINISTRATION HAS HAD DIFFICULTY EVEN CALLING IT A CRISIS, AND THAT ITSELF IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T AGREE ON THE VOCABULARY, HOW WILL YOU AGREE ON THE SOLUTION?

>> IS IT SOMETHING BORDER TOWNS IN TEXAS CAN DO, THE LOCALITIES IN TEXAS CAN DO DIFFERENTLY TO DEAL WITH WHAT THEY'RE FACING?

>> I THINK RECOGNIZE NOW THE LOCALITIES IN TEXAS, TEXAS WAS ALWAYS A RECEPTACLE BECAUSE OF WHERE THE BOUNDARY IS.

MOST OF THEM DON'T STAY IN TEXAS.

SO THE IMPACT ON TEXAS IS SHORT-TERM, BUT IT CAN BE SEVERE FOR A SMALL TOWN.

THAT'S WHY I THINK THE PRESSURE SHOULD BE LET OFF THESE -- THESE RECEPTION CITIES.

AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD ESTABLISH RECEPTION CENTER ALL ACROSS THE BORDER IN MY OPINION.

THEY SHOULD BE RUN LIKE CAMPUSES WHICH IS ALL GOVERNMENT, ALL AGENCIES FROM DHS TO EVEN DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE TO HHS WHICH PROCESSES KIDS, AND IN THOSE CAMPUSES YOU SHOULD HAVE LEGAL SERVICE PROVIDERS SO IT LOOKS LIKE ALL GOVERNMENT PLUS PRIVATE SECTOR RESPONDS.

IF WE DO IT, THEN WE CAN HAVE REASONABLY GOOD HOUSING FOR PEOPLE AND A GOOD -- SET GOOD POLICY TO RESETTLE THEM WHERE WE THINK IT IS THE MOST APPROPRIATE FOR THEM TO GO.

IF THEY HAVE A FAMILY CONNECTION, THAT'S WHERE THEY GO FIRST.

IF THEY DON'T HAVE A FAMILY CONNECTION, THEN FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN THOSE RECEPTION CENTERS DECIDES WHERE THEY SHOULD BE HEADED.

>> YOU KNOW, IT SOUNDS THEORETICALLY LIKE IT SHOULD WORK, AND THIS IS ALL SORT OF ASSUMING THAT WE HAVE SOME SEMBLANCE OF AN ORDERLY PROCESS.

"THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" ESTIMATED ANOTHER 130,000 PEOPLE WERE CROSSING THROUGH THE DARION GAP.

THAT MEANS THAT SURGE IS COMING TO THE UNITED STATES.

WHAT DO YOU DO?

HOW MANY POSSIBLE SORT OF INFORMATION TAKERS DO YOU HAVE AT THE BORDER TO BE ABLE TO PROCESS THIS JUST SHEER VOLUME OF HUMAN BEINGS?

>> YEAH, I MEAN NONE OF WHICH SHOULD BE UNDER THE IMPRESSION THIS IS NOT A BIG CRISIS.

I MEAN THAT'S -- I THINK ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THIS IS A BIG CRISIS WOULD HELP.

SO YOU GET MEXICO INVOLVED IN A MUCH DIFFERENT WAY, IN PEOPLE COMING FROM SOUTH OF MEXICO TO NORTHERN MEXICO.

I MEAN PART OF THIS IS MEXICO'S ISSUE.

PEOPLE ARE COMING THROUGH MEXICO, THEN YOU REALLY DO ENGAGE PEOPLE -- COUNTRIES IN THE REGION TO SAY, LOOK, IF PEOPLE ARE TRULY FLEEING PERSECUTION OR CONDITIONS FOR SAFETY, THAT'S A COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY.

SO IT'S NOT JUST ONE MAGIC BULLET GOING TO DO IT.

WE HAVE TO DO IT IN A BIG WAY AND IN A VERY CONCERTED WAY WHERE DIPLOMACY HELPS.

BUT I THINK MOST IMPORTANTLY CONGRESS HAS BEEN -- MEMBERS OF CONGRESS ESPECIALLY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ARE BUSY USING THE NARRATIVE OR BORDER CRISIS AS A POLITICAL SLOGAN, BUT THEY'LL NOT LIFT A FINGER IN APPROVING MORE APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE BORDER PATROL OR THE ASYLUM OFFICERS.

WE NEED THOUSANDS MORE ASYLUM OFFICERS.

WE NEED THOUSANDS MORE JUDGES.

THEY'RE AS IMPORTANT TO THIS FIGHT AS WE HAVE TROOPS AT THE BORDER.

AND YOU NEED DETENTION FACILITIES.

YOU NEED THESE PROCESSING CENTERS NOW TO BE ESTABLISHED AT A WAR FOOTING.

THAT NEEDS MONEY AND AT THE SCALE OF MONEY CONGRESS CAN ONLY APPROPRIATE AND THEY STOP USING IT AS A POLITICAL PLOY AND FINDING SOLUTIONS, WE MIGHT GET TO A DIFFERENT PLACE.

>> SENIOR FELLOW FROM THE MIGRATION POLICY INSTITUTE, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> AND NEXT TO A WOMAN WHO FLED HER HOME IN IRAN AFTER THE REGIME'S BRUTAL CRACK DOWN ON ACTIVISTS THERE.

SHE LOST HER SIGHT IN ONE EYE AMID THE DEMONSTRATIONS THAT SWEPT THE COUNTRY A YEAR AGO AFTER MASA AMINY DIED IN THE CUSTODY OF THE MORALITY POLICE.

IN THIS REPORT SHE SPEAKS ABOUT HER EXPERIENCE AND WHY DESPITE HER INJURY SHE HAS NO REGRETS.

AND OF COURSE SOME VIEWERS MIGHT FIND SOME OF THESE IMAGES DIFFICULT.

>> TO THE CHANTS OF DEATH TO THE DICTATOR, A PROTESTER TEARS DOWN A POSTER OF IRAN'S SUPREME LEADER.

>> A YOUNG GIRL WAS MURDERED BECAUSE OF THE COMPULSORY HIJAB.

WE COULDN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.

IT WAS LIKE A FIRE HIDDEN UNDER THE ASHES.

>> LIKE A WILDFIRE THE PROTESTS SPREAD TO EVERY CORNER OF IRAN.

THEIR RANGE WAS MET WITH VIOLENT REPRESSION.

IN THE SMALL TOWN THE FEAR AND CHAOS CAPTURED IN THIS SHAKY CELLPHONE VIDEO ALSO CAPTURED THIS.

SECURITY FORCES OPENING FIRE AT PROTESTERS.

A SCENE SO HARD TO WATCH AS THE CROWD RUSHED TO HELP A WOMAN SCREAMING IN PAIN AFTER SHE WAS SHOT IN THE EYE.

>> THAT MOMENT WHEN I GOT SHOT WAS THE BITTEREST MOMENT OF MY LIFE.

>> THAT WOMAN IS 32-YEAR-OLD -- SHE WAS AT THE PROTEST WITH HER 12-YEAR-OLD TWINS.

>> MY CHILDREN WERE JUST SHOUTING, THEY KILLED OUR MOM, HELP.

WHEN THIS PERSON STARTED SHOOTING, WE SAW HIM.

HE WAS 30 OR 40 METERS AWAY.

I SAW HIM AIMING AT US.

I TURNED SIDEWAYS TO SHIELD MY CHILDREN, AND I WAS SHOT.

I COULD SEE ONLY BLOOD.

I COVERED MY EYE WITH MY HAND.

I FELT LIKE IF I TAKE MY HAND-OFF, IT MIGHT FALL OUT OF ITS SOCKET.

>> SHE'S NOT ALONE.

ACTIVISTS SAY IRANIAN SECURITY FORCES WERE USING METAL PELLETS AND RUBBER BULLETS DELIBERATELY AND SIMS ATTICLY SHOOTING THE EYES AND BLINDING MORE THAN 500 PROTESTERS ACCORDING TO RIGHTS GROUPS, MANY HAVE SHARED THEIR PHOTOS ONLINE.

BUT THE REGIME CALLED THEM LIARS SPREADING PROPAGANDA.

SHE LAY IN HOSPITAL IN THIS AGONIZING PAIN FOR HOURS.

DOCTORS RELUCTANT TO HELP HER AS SECURITY FORCES WERE HUNTING DOWN THE INJURED AND THOSE WHO AIDED THEM.

AFTER A SURGERY TO TREAT HER ROOM, SHE STAYED AT HOME IN A DARK ROOM FOR MORE THAN THREE WEEKS.

>> I COULD HEAR THEM FROM MY ROOM CHANTING SLOGANS.

SOMETHING WAS PULLING ME OUTSIDE TO SPEAK, TO SHOUT, TO DEMAND MY RIGHTS.

I FELT LIKE MY FIGHT WASN'T OVER YET.

>> BUT SHE ALSO WANTED TO SAVE HER EYE.

WITH THE HELP OF AN ITALIAN JOURNALIST, SHE MADE IT TO ITALY WHERE SHE'S UNDERGONE MORE SURGERIES.

IT WAS TOO LATE.

DOCTORS DISCOVERED THAT THE PELLETS STILL LODGED BEHIND HER EYE WERE MOVED AND WERE FORCED TO REMOVE THE EYE.

SHE WAS FITTED WITH A PROSTHETIC, BUT LIFE HAS NEVER BEEN HARDER FOR HER.

SHE STILL LIVES WITH THE PHYSICAL PAIN, THE TRAUMA ALONE IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY NOW RELYING ON DONATIONS AND FRIENDS TO SURVIVE.

AND HARDEST OF ALL NOT KNOWING IF SHE'LL EVER SEE HER CHILDREN AGAIN.

>> I NEVER REGRETTED THIS AND I NEVER WILL.

IF I RETURN TO IRAN, I WILL DO IT AGAIN.

SO MANY SAY THIS REVOLUTION IS OVER, BUT IT IS NOT OVER.

ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY WOMEN ARE NOW GOING OUT WITHOUT HIJAB BECAUSE THEY ARE NO LONGER AFRAID OF THEM.

THIS IS OUR METHOD OF CIVIL RESISTANCE.

>> THE REGIME MAY HAVE CRUSHED THE PROTESTS, BUT THE RESILIENCE OF HER LIKE SO MANY OTHERS REMAINS UNSHAKABLE.

>> NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES THEY CUT THE FLOWERS, THEY CANNOT STOP THE SPRING FROM COMING.

THEY SHOT MY EYE AND THEY SHOT OTHERS, BUT THE STRUGGLE IS GOING ON.

NO MATTER HOW MANY THEY KILL, THEY CANNOT STOP THE SPRING FROM COMING.

THEY CANNOT KEEP FREEDOM FROM RETURNING TO US.

>> JOMANA KARADSHEH REPORTING THERE ON STRONG, DETERMINED AND DEFIANT WOMEN.

>>> AND FINALLY A MOMENT OF ZEN.

A RARE DUMBO OCPS WAS SPOTTED BY SCIENTISTS DURING A REMOTE DEEP SEA RESEARCH DIVE IN THE NORTH PACIFIC OCEAN.

THERE IT IS.

ITS NICKNAME FOR ITS FLAPPING FIN-LIKE FINS THAT RESEMBLE THE DISNEY ELEMENT SPOOKY SEA CREATURE WAS FLOATING AT A DEPTH OF 1,700 METERS.

A KEY EXHIBIT WHILE I WAS THERE MONTHS AGO ALSO SPECIALIZES IN FLOATING SEA CREATURES LIKE THESE JELLYFISH.

AND ESPECIALLY DURING THE WAR IT PROVIDES A PEACEFUL RESPITE.

AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP ON THE SHOW EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND