♪♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>>> ONE WEEK SINCE RUPERT MURDOCH STEPPED ASIDE, WE EXAMINE THE FOX FALL OUTAND HIS DEEP POLITICAL INFLUENCE IN THE UNITED STATES AND BEYOND WITH JOURNALISTS KARA SWISHER AND ANDREW NEIL.

>>> THEN -- >> LISTEN UP, EVERYBODY, GOT THE HALF MARATHON IN 32 DAYS.

>> RUNNING THROUGH THEIR SENTENCES HARI SREENIVASAN EXPLORES THE DOCUMENTARY "26.2 TO LIFE" ABOUT SAN QUENTIN PRISON'S MARATHON CLUB.

>>> PLUS -- >> WHEN YOU'RE COUNTING DOWN THE TIME TO DIE, IT'S THE MOST SURREAL THING THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE IN THE WORLD.

>> A LOOK BACK AT MY CONVERSATION WITH ANTI-DEATH PENALTY ACTIVIST HELEN PREJEAN AS HER MEMOIR IS ADAPTED FOR NEW YORK'S METROPOLITAN OPERA.

"AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY CANDACE KING WEIR, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, MARK J. BLECHNER, SETON J. MELVIN, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

WE BEGIN WITH A POTENTIALLY SEISMIC SHIFT IN MEDIA SPANNING THE GLOBE FROM AUSTRALIA TO THE UK TO THE UNITED STATES.

SINCE 92-YEAR-OLD RUPERT MURDOCH STEPPED ASIDE LAST WEEK AS CHAIRMAN OF THE FOX CORPORATION AND NEWS CORP., FOR DECADES HE HAD PRESIDED OVER A MASSIVE EMPIRE OF TELEVISION, NEWSPAPERS AND TABLOIDS.

BUT ATTRACTING MOST OF THE ATTENTION WAS THE FAR RIGHT FOX NEWS, WHICH HE CREATED NEARLY 27 YEARS AGO.

>> HOW DELIGHTED I AM THAT WE'VE NOW REACHED THIS MOMENT WHEN WE CAN FIRMLY ANNOUNCE THE STARTING OF A FOX NEWS CHANNEL AND A MUCH GREATER EFFORT HOW TO BUILD UP FOX NEWS IN EVERY AREA.

>> INDEED OVER THE YEARS FOX'S INFLUENTIAL ROLE IN U.S.

POLITICS BALLOONED WITH REPUBLICANS COVETS EXPOSURE TO ITS CONSERVATIVE LEANING AUDIENCE.

BUT WITH ITS PSEUDO NEWS PROGRAM AND PUNDITS THE NETWORK IS BEING CREDITED WITH STOKING DIVISION, CONSPIRACIES, FAKE NEWS, ESPECIALLY AS IT BECAME A MOUTHPIECE FOR DONALD TRUMP.

>> WE KEEP MARRYING OTHER SPECIES AND OTHER ET NIX.

>> ARE YOU SAYING THEY'RE NOT SUFFERING FROM SOME OF THE CAUSES OF DEMENTIA RIGHT NOW?

>> THE SWEDES HAVE PURE GENES.

FINS MARRY OTHER FINS SO THEY HAVE A PURE SOCIETY.

IN AMERICA WE MARRY EVERYBODY.

>> ASIAN PEOPLE ARE NOT LIBERAL, YOU KNOW, BY NATURE.

THEY'RE USUALLY MORE INDUSTS YOU AND HARD WORKING.

>> YOU'RE A MUSLIM, SO WHY DID YOU WRITE A BOOK ABOUT THE FOUNDER OF CHRISTIANITY.

>> SAY YOU'RE A COCAINE DEALER.

>> FOR ALL YOU KIDS WATCHING AT HOME, SANTA JUST IS WHITE, BUT THIS PERSON IS JUST ARGUING THAT MAYBE WE SHOULD ALSO HAVE A BLACK SANTA, BUT SANTA IS WHAT HE IS.

>> WHAT PRECISELY IS DIVERSITY OUR STRENGTH.

>> SO OFTEN THAT KIND OF CRASS INTOLERANCE, WHERE DOES THE EMPIRE STRIKE NEXT NOW THAT IT'S IN THE HANDS OF FIRST SON LACHLAN MURDOCH, ANDREW NEIL FORMER EDITOR OF THE MURDOCH OWNED SUNDAY TIMES, AND KARA SWISHER HAVE SOME INCISIVE THOUGHTS.

ANDREW NEIL, WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU.

>> ONCE THE NOW 92-YEAR-OLD MURDOCH BASICALLY USED TO TELL PEOPLE THEY'LL HAVE TO CARRY ME OUT OF THE OFFICE IN A BOX.

SO, A, WHAT'S HAPPENED?

WHY NOW?

AND FRANKLY, WHAT ABOUT THE FORWARD MOVEMENT?

WHAT HAPPENS NEXT TO THIS CORPORATION?

>> WELL, HE'S OUT, BUT THERE IS NO SIGN OF A BOX.

AND HOW FAR OUT HE IS, OF COURSE, IS STILL A MATTER FOR DEBATE.

I THINK HE'LL STILL FIND IT PRETTY HARD NOT TO INTERFERE IN ALL SORTS OF THINGS.

AND OF COURSE SINCE HE'S NOT BEEN RUNNING THE COMPANY, HE'LL HAVE MORE TIME ON HIS HANDS TO PUT HIS WORTH IN ON CONTENT AND ALL THE REST OF IT.

BUT I THINK HE HAD A SENSE THAT THERE WAS NOTHING MORE FOR HIM TO DO, THAT HE HAD RUN OUT OF TIME, RUN OUT OF ROAD.

THE COMPANY'S BASICALLY -- BOTH COMPANIES, BOTH THE NEWSPAPER DIVISION AND THE TELEVISION SIDE, THEY'RE TREADING WATER.

THEY'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

THEY STILL MAKE MONEY BUT HE CAN'T DO DEALS ANYMORE, AND RUPERT MURDOCH WAS ABOVE ALL A DEAL MERCHANT.

HE WAS ACTUALLY AT ONE STAGE PROBABLY THE WORLD'S GREATEST DEAL MERCHANT.

NOW THERE ARE NO DEALS THAT HE CAN DO ANYMORE.

IT'S A MUCH DIMINISHED COMPANY, AND I THINK HE JUST THOUGHT TIME TO HAND OVER.

LET'S SEE HOW LACHLAN DOES, THOUGH IN FACT I THINK HE KNOWS IN HIS HEART OF HEARTS THAT IT'S THE BEGINNING OF A GREAT UNRAVELING.

THE MURDOCH EMPIRE, WHICH STARTED TO UNRAVEL WHEN HE SOLD ALL THE ENTERTAINMENT SIDE TO DISNEY IN 2016, 2017, WHAT'S LEFT ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ATLANTIC AND AUSTRALIA WILL START TO UNRAVEL AS WELL.

>> THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE, AS YOU SAY, ONE OF THE POSITIVES ABOUT HIM ACCORDING TO HIS SUPPORTERS IS HIS BUSINESS SAVVY AND HIS BUSINESS ACUMEN AS WELL AS THE POLITICAL POWER THAT HE AMASSED, BUT I WANT TO READ YOU SOMETHING AND SEE IF YOU AGREE.

YOU KNOW PERFECTLY WELL THAT THERE IS A NEW BOOK OUT BY MICHAEL WOLFF, JUST HAPPENS TO BE TIME.

HE BASICALLY SAYS ALL THIS THAT MADE ROBERT MURDOCH UNGODLY SUMS IN THE END MADE MURDOCH MISERABLE.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT?

THAT HE ESSENTIALLY BECAME EMBARRASSED BY THE POLITICS, HE CALLS SEAN HANNITY, I'M SORRY, I'M GOING TO SAY THIS, BUT I THINK HE CALLED HIM RETARDED JUST LIKE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

>> I DO BELIEVE THAT.

I THINK MICHAEL WOLFF IS LARGELY RIGHT ON THAT.

I THINK HE BECAME MISERABLE BECAUSE HIS MOST IMPORTANT ASSET IN TERMS OF MONEY GENERATED AND IN TERMS OF PROFILE AND INFLUENCE IN THE UNITED STATES, WHICH IS THE COUNTRY HE'S ALWAYS CARED ABOUT MORE THAN ANY OTHER FOR THE PAST 48 YEARS WAS FOX NEWS, AND HE HAD BASICALLY NOTHING TO DO WITH FOX NEWS.

IT MADE HIM A TON OF MONEY, BUT HE DIDN'T RUN IT.

HE COULDN'T GET HIS WAY IN IT.

HE DETESTED A NUMBER OF THE ANCHORS LIKE MR. HANNITY WHO HE DESCRIBED AS RETARDED.

IN THE END HE GREW TO LOATHE THE WAY FOX NEWS HAD BECOME THE PUBLISHING ARM OF DONALD TRUMP AND THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE.

HE COULDN'T STOMACH THE PROSPECT OF MR. TRUMP RETURNING TO THE WHITE HOUSE AGAIN, YET THERE WAS VERY LITTLE HE SEEMED TO BE ABLE TO DO ABOUT IT.

HE HAD ALLOWED THE CREATION OF A FRANKENSTEIN MONSTER IN FOX NEWS THAT HE COULD NO LONGER CONTROL BECAUSE THAT MONSTER HAD CREATED ANOTHER MONSTER.

THAT MONSTER IS THE AUDIENCE OF FOX NEWS, WHICH IS BASICALLY THE CULT OF DONALD TRUMP, AND THE MOMENT YOU TRY TO STOP FEEDING THE CULT, FOR EXAMPLE, HE WANTED THE STATION TO GET BEHIND RON DeSANTIS, FLORIDA GOVERNOR.

HE WAS TO BE THE NEW REPUBLICAN GREAT HOPE.

THE AUDIENCE WOULDN'T ALLOW IT.

THE AUDIENCE COLLAPSED EVERY TIME DeSANTIS WAS ON.

DeSANTIS'S CAMPAIGN HAS GONE NOWHERE, IT'S BASICALLY CRASHED AND BURNED, AND IN THE END, RUPERT MURDOCH, THE GREAT CREATOR OF POPULOUS JOURNALISM BECAME THE HOSTAGE OF POPULOUS JOURNALISM IN THE SHAPE OF THE FOX NEWS AUDIENCE, AND THAT'S WHERE WE ARE TODAY, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY HE'S STEPPING BACK.

>> WELL, THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE -- AND YOU'LL KNOW THIS MUCH BETTER THAN ME, OF COURSE, THAT ALL OF THAT MIGHT BE TRUE, AND NOT ONLY THAT, YOU KNOW, OVER 800, YOU KNOW, MILLION DOLLARS IN MEA CULPA FOR PERPETUATING AND ALLOWING THE LIE OF TRUMP AND THE 2020 ELECTION TO CONTINUE.

BUT NOW, AS YOU SAY, DeSANTIS HAS GONE NOWHERE.

THE RATINGS, IT SEEMS MURDOCH HAS ALLOWED TRUMP TO COME BACK TO DOMINATE AFTER BRIEFLY BANISHING HIM BECAUSE DESPITE THE FEELINGS YOU SAY, HE'S NOT WILLING TO SACRIFICE A SINGLE RATINGS POINT.

>> THAT'S TRUE, BUT HE'S ALSO NOT GIVEN UP TRYING TO DUMP TRUMP, EVEN THOUGH TO MY MIND HE'S LOST.

I MEAN, IN THE BATTLE BETWEEN TRUMP AND MURDOCH FOR THE SOUL OF FOX NEWS, DONALD TRUMP WON.

IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

RUPERT MURDOCH LOST.

HE'S NOT GIVEN UP I'M TOLD IN SOME TIME PERHAPS THE NEXT WEEK OR SO, GLENN YOUNGKIN WILL BE MAKING THE JOURNEY FROM VIRGINIA WHERE HE'S GOVERNOR TO BREAK BREAD, HAVE WINE AT MR. MURDOCH'S VINEYARD IN CALIFORNIA, HAVING FAILED WITH MR. DeSANTIS, I UNDERSTAND HE THINKS MR. YOUNGKIN COULD BE THE ONE WHO TAKES ON MR. TRUMP.

IT'S OVER, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

MR. TRUMP WHETHER HE WINS THE PRESIDENCY IS ANOTHER MATTER.

>> BUT CAN I ASK YOU ABOUT THE POLITICAL POWER.

YES, HE WAS POWERFUL, YES, HE WAS A KING MAKER AND A QUEEN MAKER, BUT NOT NECESSARILY FOR THE GOOD.

HERE'S WHAT DAVID CAMERON SAID ABOUT HIM ADMITTING TO HIS INFLUENCE BACK IN 2012.

THE HOUSE, THERE'S A BIT OF A NEED FOR A HAND ON HEART.

WE ALL DID TOO MUCH COZYING UP TO RUPERT MURDOCH I THINK YOU WOULD AGREE.

>> COZYING UP TO WHAT OTHERS SAY ESSENTIALLY WAS A TERRIFYING WAY THAT THE MEDIA OWNERS CONTROL SO MUCH POWER.

IN RETROSPECT, WAS IT HEALTHY, THE AMOUNT OF POWER HE EXERTED ON POLITICIANS FRANKLY FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE SPECTRUM, BUT ESPECIALLY LEANING TO THE CONSERVATIVE AND FAR RIGHT?

>> I DON'T THINK IT WAS EVER HEALTHY THAT ONE PERSON SHOULD HAVE SO MUCH POWER, NO.

AND I THINK THE POLITICIANS HAVE ALSO THEMSELVES TO BLAME BECAUSE THINK MADE HIM MORE POWERFUL THAN HE REALLY WAS.

YOU GO BACK, YOU'RE QUITE RIGHT, HE SUPPORTED THATCHER THROUGHOUT THAT TIME AND THE CONSERVATIVES FOR A WHILE AFTER THAT, BUT LOOK AT THE TIME WHEN TONY BLAIR IN BRITAIN, HE WAS CRUISING TO A LANDSLIDE IN 1997 TO TAKE OVER FROM A CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT, YOU KNOW, HISTORY REPEATING ITSELF AT THE MOMENT IN THE UK.

TONY BLAIR STILL FELT IT NECESSARY TO COZY UP TO RUPERT MURDOCH, AND THE FACT IS IT DIDN'T MATTER WHAT RUPERT MURDOCH DID, TONY BLAIR WAS GOING TO WIN, THE LABOR PARTY WAS GOING TO WIN THE ELECTION OF 1997.

THE POLITICIANS IN AUSTRALIA AND ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ATLANTIC MADE HIM MORE POWERFUL THAN HE REALLY WAS, AND HE APPRECIATED THAT.

I REMEMBER HE USED TO THINK I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY GIVE ME SO MUCH TIME OR LISTEN TO ME SO MUCH BUT THEY DO, SO I'M GOING TO MILK IT FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH.

THEY HELPED TO CREATE THIS MONSTER, AND THEY HAVE TO LIVE TW.

I THINK WE'RE MOVING IN WHERE WHAT THE MURDOCH PRESS SAYS WHAT THE MEDIA SAYS DOESN'T MATTER AS MUCH AS IT USED TO.

>> YOU HAVE SAID HE CREATED A FRANKENSTEIN CULT OF THE AMERICAN ELECTORATE.

LY MOVE ON TO THAT LATER.

FIRST I JUST WANT TO END BY ASKING YOU WE KNOW THAT TRUMP IS A DANGEROUS -- A DANGER TO THE ELECTED AUTHORITY IN THE UNITED STATES.

HE HAS TRIED VIOLENTLY TO OVERTHROW IT.

HE'S BEEN INDICTED, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

HOW SHOULD THE MEDIA COVER TRUMP HAVING SEEN WHAT THEY DID IN THE LEAD UP TO THE 2016 ELECTION?

>> WELL, IF PARTICULARLY THE AMERICAN NETWORKS REGARD THEMSELVES AS AN INTEGRAL PART OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY, WHICH THEY SHOULD BE, THEY'VE GOT TO STOP JUST GOING FOR RATINGS BECAUSE PUTTING TRUMP ON THE SCREEN IS GOOD FOR RATINGS, AND THEY'VE GOT TO COVER TRUMP NOT JUST BECAUSE HE'S DOING SOMETHING, BUT BECAUSE HE'S SAYING SOMETHING IMPORTANT THAT NEEDS TO BE QUESTIONED.

HE SHOULD BE TREATED LIKE ANY OTHER CANDIDATE AND NOT LIKE A CELEBRITY, NOT LIKE A STAR.

HE SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO THE MOST RIGOROUS EXAMINATION AND FACT CHECKING.

HE SHOULD BE DEALT WITH STRONGLY.

HE SHOULD BE QUESTIONED AT EVERY TURN.

HE SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN AIR TIME JUST FOR THE SAKE OF IT.

HE SHOULDN'T BE GIVEN THE OXYGEN OF PUBLICITY JUST BECAUSE THE RATINGS WILL PEAK UP.

IN THE END THE AMERICAN NETWORKS WHO REGARD THEMSELVES AS REPOSITOIES OF GREAT JOURNALISM, THEY'VE GOT TO WORK OUT WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT DOING OUR JOB PROPERLY, HOLDING TO ACCOUNT OR SIMPLY RACKING UP THE RATINGS AND TAKING IN THE MONEY.

I KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO.

>> ANDREW NEIL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED.

THAT IS QUITE INTERESTING AND DIFFERENT STUFF TO HEAR FROM THE INSIDE.

REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> TURNING NOW TO KARA SWISHER.

SHE IS THE HOST OF THE PIVOT PODCAST.

KARA, YOU KNOW, YOU YOURSELF HAVE CALLED MURDOCH THE SINGLE MOST DESTRUCTIVE FORCE IN MEDIA, AT LEAST ONE OF THEM.

>> I THINK HE'S THE SINGLE MOST DESTRUCTIVE FORCE IN AMERICA, ENGLAND AND AUSTRALIA, IT'S A LITTLE BIGGER THAN THAT WITH THE STUFF HIS PUBLICATIONS HAVE DONE.

IT'S IN ITS WANING DAYS.

>> WHY DO YOU SAY DESTRUCTIVE?

>> COMBINED WITH GERRYMANDERING THIS SORT OF TSUNAMI OF DISINFORMATION, OF NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT TRUTH AND LIES ARE, OF TABLOIDISM, WHICH I THINK HAS BEEN AROUND LONGER, SO I'M NOT AS CONCERNED ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT A SOCCER STAR IS DOING.

I DON'T CARE OR WHATEVER.

BUT I THINK IT'S REALLY CREATED THIS SORT OF CYNICAL IDEA ABOUT FACT, AND YOU SAW IT IN THAT TRIAL, THE DOMINION TRIAL.

THEY PUSHED IT AS FAR AS THEY COULD GO AND THEY FINALLY HAD TO PAY THE PRICE, WHICH IS QUITE COSTLY, AND THEY'RE ABOUT TO DO THE SMARTMATIC CASE TOO WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY UP BIG TIME FOR THIS LACK OF -- I WOULD SAY IT'S LAZINESS, BUT I THINK IT'S DELIBERATE IS WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

>> I WANT TO GET YOU ON THE RECORD BECAUSE YOU PUT YOUR MONEY OR YOUR FEET WHERE YOUR MOUTH AND YOUR MIND IS.

WHEN MURDOCH ACQUIRED "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" WHEN YOU WORKED THERE, WHAT DID YOU DO?

>> I WAS THERE FOR A LITTLE WHILE BECAUSE I WAS UNDER CONTRACT WITH ESPECIALLY OUR CONFERENCE, AND SO WE WERE RUNNING A VERY PROFITABLE CONFERENCE.

IT WAS WITHIN "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL," AND WE WERE -- YOU KNOW, WE SHARED RISK AND REWARD AND EVERYTHING ELSE, AND WE WORKED THERE FOR A LITTLE WHILE, BUT AFTER THAT, WHEN HE WAS -- WHEN ONE OF THEIR PUBLICATIONS, I THINK IT WAS NEWS OF THE WORLD WAS ACCUSED AND IT WAS PROVEN THAT THEY HAD HACKED PHONE OF A DEAD GIRL WAS SO DISTURBING, I THINK WALT AND I WHEN THE CONTRACT CAME DUE, WE LEFT AND DECIDED TO -- WE DIDN'T WANT TO EXPAND WITH THEM.

WE HAD IDEAS AROUND EXPANSION, AND THEY WERE NOT THE PREFERRED PARTNERS OF US.

>> SO MURDOCH'S STRATEGY, YOU KNOW, HE UNLEASHED AS WE'VE ALL TALKED ABOUT A NEW MEDIA, FOX PROMISED NEWS, BUT ITS CASH CROP WAS FEELINGS.

MAKING VIEWERS FEEL, FEEL ANGRY, FEEL BETRAYED, FEEL THREATENED CH IT WAS VITAL TO KEEPING THEM TUNED IN FOR HOURS.

THAT'S "THE NEW YORK TIMES" CRITIC.

>> IT'S 100% TRUE.

I MEAN, I HAVE RELATIVES INCLUDING MY OWN MOM WHO REALLY SHIFTED BASED ON HER WATCHING OF FOX NEWS.

A LOT OF, YOU KNOW -- IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THEIR DEMOGRAPHIC IS SO OLD AS A GROUP OF PEOPLE, BUT THEY MANAGE TO GET THEM SORT OF ENRAGED AND ENGAGED.

I ALWAYS TALK ABOUT ENRAGEMENT THESE DAYS BOTH ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND ON FOX NEWS AND A LOT OF MEDIA ACTUALLY IS ENRAGEMENT EQUALS ENGAGEMENT, AND THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE GOING FOR.

>> AND HAVE YOU INTERVIEWED -- SURELY YOU'VE REPORTED ON LACHLAN MURDOCH WHO'S BEEN HANDED THE REINS NOW.

ANDREW NEIL HAD A PRETTY DIM VIEW OF WHAT HE MIGHT ACHIEVE, BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE NEXT PHASE OF THIS EMPIRE?

IF IT'S COLLAPSING AS WE KNOW IT, WHAT NEXT?

>> WELL, I HAVEN'T INTERVIEWED HIM.

WE'VE ASKED, OF COURSE, I THINK HE'S -- I'VE INTERVIEWED RUPERT SEVERAL TIMES, ACTUALLY.

HE'S ALWAYS GAME FOR AN INTERVIEW, AND I'VE INTERVIEWED JAMES, AND I THINK I'VE INTERVIEWED LIZ WHEN SHE DID A LOT OF HER MEDIA STUFF, BUT LACHLAN HAS BEEN RARE, AND I THINK IT'S FOR GOOD REASON.

I THINK HE'S -- I THINK HE'S UNDERWHELMING COMPARED TO HIS FATHER.

I THINK HE'S BEEN PROPPED UP BY HIS FATHER, AND THE REAL PROBLEM IS THE TRUST THAT CONTROLS IT WHEN RUPERT DIES AS INEVITABLY HE WILL, ALTHOUGH MOST PEOPLE STILL AREN'T GOING TO TURN THEIR BACK ON HIM I SUSPECT LONG AFTER HE'S SHED THE MORTAL COIL.

I THINK HE SET IT UP AND SO THE FOUR CHILDREN, LACHLAN, JAMES, LIZ, AND PRUDENCE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS TOGETHER, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THE THREE SIBLINGS ARE UNITED IN NOT WANTING LACHLAN TO RUN IT.

AND SO I THINK THIS MOVE WAS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SHOWING LACHLAN THAT HE CAN DO -- SHOWING THAT LACHLAN CAN DO IT TO SIGNAL IT.

HE'S TRYING TO SHOW THAT LACHLAN IS HIS CHOSEN SUCCESSOR, BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE HE WILL NOT HAVE CONTROL AFTER HE DIES, AND YOU KNOW, HE'S 92.

SO LOOK AT THE ACTUARIAL TABLES.

HE'S WELL PAST THEM.

>> LET'S JUST DIVE DOWN A BIT.

CLEARLY YOU SAY THE OTHER THREE ARE UNITED.

THEY DON'T WANT LACHLAN, I'M NOT SURE WHY IF IT'S THE POLITICS OR THE PERSONALITIES, BUT WE KNOW FOR A FACT THAT LIZ AND JAMES MORE TO THE POINT HAVE DIFFERENT POLITICS THAN THEIR FATHER ON MANY ISSUES, INCLUDING THE CLIMATE ISSUE.

I MEAN, JAMES CAME OUT AND DISAVOWED HIS FATHER'S DENYING OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND SO HE MIGHT HAVE A WHOLE DIFFERENT WAY OF DELIVERING A MEDIA PRODUCT.

WHAT DO YOU SEE DOWN THAT LINE?

WHO DO YOU THINK MIGHT GET AHOLD OF THE EMPIRE?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE IT JUST TAKES TWO OF THEM TO BLOCK IT, RIGHT?

IT DOESN'T TAKE THREE.

IT TAKES TWO.

I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT PRUDENCE, HONESTLY.

SHE'S SORT OF BEEN THE QUIET ONE ESSENTIALLY, BUT I SUSPECT SHE PROBABLY WANTS TO SELL IT AND SELL FOX NEWS OFF.

THEY MAY TRY TO RUN IT AS A MORE CENTRIST ORGANIZATION.

THAT'S A POSSIBILITY, BUT IT CERTAINLY WON'T HAVE THE INFLUENCE IT HAD BECAUSE IT'S NOT SKEWING SO FAR RIGHT.

AND I THINK ANDREW WAS RIGHT ABOUT THE AUDIENCE.

THE AUDIENCE HAS TAKEN CONTROL OF THE STORY HERE, AND THAT'S WHY -- I THINK MURDOCH IS HORRIFIED BY TRUMP.

I THINK IT'S WELL-DOCUMENTED, AND I THINK EVERY TIME HE TRIES TO SKEW SOMEWHERE ELSE, ALTHOUGH RON DeSANTIS IS NOT VERY FAR FROM TRUMP OR SORT OF THE OTHER DIRECTION, I THINK HE -- HE GETS PUSHED BACK.

THEY LOVE TRUMP, AND THEY HAVE MADE TRUMP, AND SO THEY'VE CREATED A MONSTER IN TRUMP AND A MONSTER IN THEIR AUDIENCE AND THEY'RE HELD CAPTIVE BY THE AUDIENCE IN MU WAYS AND THE MONEY IT BRINGS IN.

>> I ASKED ANDREW AS A FINAL QUESTION, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU THEN, YOU KNOW, BRIEFLY BANNING TRUMP AFTER JANUARY 6th AND, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THE DOMINION AND THIS AND THAT, THEY'VE NOW COME BACK TO CONTINUE TO GIVE HIM, YOU KNOW, POLL POSITION IN THEIR COVERAGE AND THEIR BACKING.

HOW SHOULD THE MEDIA -- BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THEY'VE STILL GOT IT -- COVER TRUMP THIS TIME AROUND?

AND I ASKED ANDREW FOR INSTANCE ABOUT THIS BREAKING CONVENTION AND DOING HIS OWN SPEECH AGAIN INSTEAD OF JOINING THE MANDATED MEDIA AGREEMENT TO BE PART OF A DEBATE STAGE.

>> I THINK TRUMP'S HANDLING IT PERFECTLY.

WHY SHOULD HE?

HE DOESN'T NEED THEM ANYMORE.

IF I WERE HIM, WHY SHOULD HE TALK TO THEM, EVEN IF HE MADE THEM, HE DOESN'T OWE THEM ANYTHING.

AND HE ACTUALLY, AS USUAL BECAUSE HE'S A PERPETUAL VICTIM THINKS THEY'RE NOT NICE TO HIM BECAUSE I GUESS HE DIDN'T GET HUGGED ENOUGH AS A CHILD OR SOMETHING, AND SO I THINK THAT HE CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS.

>> NO, BUT HOW SHOULD WE DO IT?

HOW SHOULD MAINSTREAM MEDIA DO IT?

"THE NEW YORK TIMES" WHICH YOU CONTRIBUTE TO, CNN, BBC, SHOULD WE BE COVERING THAT SPEECH?

>> I THINK YOU HAVE TO.

HE'S THE FRONT RUNNER.

I THINK IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT.

I THINK WHAT YOU CAN DO IS PUSH BACK ON HIM.

SO FAR MOST OF THE INTERVIEWS HAVE BEEN WEAK.

THE CNN THING DIDN'T WORK OUT VERY WELL, OBVIOUSLY.

YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU SAY, TRUTHFUL, NOT NEUTRAL.

WHEN SOMEONE IS LYING OR DOING OTHER THINGS, THAT'S A POWERFUL WAY TO COVER IT.

I THINK THAT'S EXACTLY THE WAY TO COVER IT.

AND EVEN IF PEOPLE SAY YOU'RE PARTISAN, THAT'S TOO BAD.

IF YOU'RE BEING TRUTHFUL THAT'S THE KEY PART AND THAT'S THE WAY TO COVER HIM AND NOT LET HIM GET AWAY.

THE NBC INTERVIEW IF YOU CAN BELIEVE IT IS EVEN WORSE BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T PUSH BACK ON A NUMBER OF LIES.

TRUMP'S ALWAYS AT AN ADVANTAGE IF SOMEONE'S LYING CONSTANTLY, IT'S LIKE BATTING AWAY NATS IN THE MIDDLE OF A RAIN FOREST.

YOU'RE JUST LIKE THIS ALL THE TIME SO YOU DON'T REALLY -- YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE A CONVERSATION.

SITUATION, AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S -- I DON'T THINK HIS SUPPORTERS CARE AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS JUST MAD AT YOU IF YOU MISS ONE.

>> KARA SWISHER, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

>> SO WHAT WOULD FOX NEWS MAKE OF PRISONER REHABILITATION?

NEXT WE TURN TO THE CHANCE FOR SOME IN THE BELEAGUERED U.S. PRISON SYSTEM TO BE DEFINED BY MORE THAN JUST THEIR CRIMES.

A NEW DOCUMENTARY "26.2 TO LIFE" IS GOING BEHIND THE BARBED WIRE TO CAPTURE THE INFAMOUS SAN QUENTIN PRISON'S RUNNING CLUB.

THEY HOLD AN ANNUAL MARATHON WITH PARTICIPANTS COMPLETING 105 LAPS AROUND THE CROWDED YARD.

AND THE DIRECTOR CHRISTINE YOO AS WELL AS A MEMBER OF THE 1,000 MILE CLUB TALKED WITH HARI SREENIVASAN.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS.

CHRISTINE, YOU AND MARKELLE, THE GAZELLE TAYLOR, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

CHRISTINE, LET ME START WITH YOU.

WHAT GAVE YOU THE IDEA TO PROFILE RUNNERS INSIDE SAN >> MORE THAN 20 YEARS AGO, I -- MY RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PRISON SYSTEM STARTED THEN.

I HAD A FRIEND WHO WAS ALSO A FELLOW KOREAN AMERICAN WHO WAS WRONGFULLY CONVICTED IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, AND HE WAS SENTENCED TO 271 YEARS IN PRISON.

KNOWING THAT BASICALLY HE WOULD BE SPENDING THE REST OF HIS LIVING DAYS IN THE PRISON, IT REALLY, OF COURSE, IMPACTED ME DEEPLY, AND I STARTED TO WONDER, YOU KNOW, WHAT DOES LIFE ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE?

HOW DO YOU ACTUALLY CREATE A LIFE IN PRISON?

>> YEAH.

>> SO WHEN I HAPPENED UPON THIS MAGAZINE ARTICLE ABOUT THE MARATHON AT SAN QUENTIN, IT IMMEDIATELY FOR WHATEVER REASON, CAPTURED MY IMAGINATION.

I'M NOT A MARATHONER, BUT I DO KNOW THAT RUNNING CAN CREATE A SENSE OF FREEDOM.

IT CERTAINLY DOES THAT FOR ME.

IT SOLVES MY PROBLEMS WHEN I DO THAT, SO I THOUGHT IT WAS LIKE THE PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE A MARATHON BEING A METAPHOR FOR LIFE IN PRISON.

>> EVERYBODY THAT'S RUNNING, START LINING UP.

>> IT'S GAME TIME.

>> THREE, TWO, ONE, GO!

♪♪ >> GO GET 'EM.

>> IT'S A COMMUNITY NOW.

IF YOU CAN'T LIVE IN A COMMUNITY IN HERE, YOU CAN'T LIVE IN A COMMUNITY OUT THERE.

>> WHY SHOULD THEY LET ME OUT?

BECAUSE I'VE CHANGED.

♪♪ >> TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT JUST THE CONDITIONS OF SHOOTING A STORY INSIDE SAN QUENTIN?

I MEAN, IT'S A BIG UNDERTAKING FOR EVEN THE PRISON SYSTEM TO AGREE TO THIS.

>> YEAH, I'M AN INDEPENDENT FILMMAKER AND THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT.

WHO DO YOU CALL, YOU KNOW, PRISON IS NOT THE KIND OF PLACE THAT YOU CAN LEAVE A VOICE MAIL AND THEY'RE GOING TO CALL YOU SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE DECIDED TO EMBARK UPON THIS JOURNEY, IT DID TAKE ABOUT NINE MONTHS JUST TO REALLY FIGURE OUT WHO TO -- YOU KNOW, THE MATRIX OF THE BUREAUCRACY SO TO SPEAK.

WE FINALLY DID SPEAK WITH THE RIGHT PERSON, AND THEY DID GRANT US THAT PERMISSION, BUT I WILL SAY THIS THAT EVERY TIME WE SHOT IN THERE, THERE WAS NO GUARANTEE THAT WE WERE GOING TO GET ANOTHER TIME TO SHOOT.

SO TIME WAS ALWAYS VERY LIMITED AND OVER TIME, I MEAN, IT TOOK SEVERAL YEARS TO DO THIS, WE -- YOU KNOW, IT WAS A MATTER OF GAINING TRUST AND THEM KNOWING THAT I WAS REALLY HERE TO EXPLORE LIFE INSIDE AND THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE.

IT WASN'T NECESSARILY LIKE A CRITIQUE ON THE PRISON SYSTEM.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S FOR PEOPLE TO DECIDE ON THEIR OWN AFTER THEY WATCH THIS.

>> SO MARKELLE, WE SHOULD LET OUR AUDIENCE KNOW YOU ARE -- HAVE BEEN RECENTLY RELEASED AFTER SERVING 18 YEARS, AND I WANT TO ASK, WHAT MADE YOU WANT I MEAN, HOW DID YOU FIND OUT ABOUT THIS THOUSAND MILE CLUB AS IT'S NO SECRET IN THE FILM, YOU'RE KIND OF THE FASTEST GUY IN THERE.

WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO DO THIS?

>> A FRIEND OF MINE WHO COMMITTED SUICIDE WHO I WAS VERY CLOSE TO AND THE GUY, I'M NOT GOING TO PUT HIS NAME OUT THERE.

HE HAD DONE LIKE 20 SOME YEARS AND THIS WAS LIKE HIS FOURTH OR FIFTH BOARD HEARING AND HE GOT DENIED, AND HE HUNG HIMSELF.

SO THE FOLLOWING YEAR WAS MY TURN TO DO THE SAME THING, GO TO THE BOARD AND PRESENT MY CASE SO I CAN TRY TO GET OUT, AND I WAS LIKE, MAN, I DON'T WANT TO BE LIKE THAT.

I DON'T WANT TO FEEL LIKE THAT, AND THERE'S ALREADY STRESSES AND ANXIETIES AND FEARS INSIDE ALREADY.

SO HOPEFULLY I HAVE A BETTER SHOT, BUT IF NOT I DON'T WANT TO END UP LIKE THAT JUST IN CASE I GET DENIED.

SO THAT'S HOW I STARTED RUNNING.

RUNNING OPENED EVERYTHING UP COMPLETELY, AND I WAS ABLE TO SEE A LOT BETTER AND MORE CLEARER.

I WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE FOCUSED SO THAT ALLOWED ME TO HAVE THAT MENTAL FREENESS BEFORE EVEN GETTING RELEASED FROM PRISON.

>> WHEN YOU'RE RUNNING, EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE TAKING TURN AFTER TURN AFTER TURN INSIDE A PRISON COMPLEX WALL, YOU'RE SURROUNDED BY PRISONERS WHO ARE WALKING ACROSS THE PATH, SO TO SPEAK, NOT NECESSARILY THINKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU'RE ON YOUR WORKOUT.

WHAT'S GOING THROUGH YOUR MIND?

>> FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO SAY THAT I GOT THE IDEA OF MY PURPOSE OF RUNNING FROM FORREST GUMP, THE MOVIE FORREST GUMP, AND HE RAN FOR A PURPOSE, SO THAT WAS MY THING.

I WASN'T ENVISIONING I WAS OUTSIDE.

I WAS ENVISIONING THAT I WAS CARRYING EVERYBODY, INCLUDING THE PEOPLE I VICTIMIZED IN MY LIFETIME, PEOPLE WHO ARE STRUGGLING AND SUFFERING FROM THEIR OWN MENTAL IMPRISONMENT.

PEOPLE WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH CANCER OR DIABETES OR WHATEVER SUFFERING WITH, I'M THERE FOR THEM TO REPRESENT THEM AND RUN FOR THEM, EVEN PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN VICTIMIZED IN MY LIFETIME AND MY OWN PERSONAL VICTIMS AND THE PEOPLE I HARMED AND HURT.

EVERYBODY I'M CARRYING ALONG WITH ME AND I'M RUNNING FOR THEM.

>> CHRISTINE, TELL ME ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE THAT YOU HAD OF HOW YOU PERCEIVED PRISON LIFE TO BE EVEN THE NON-RUNNING PORTIONS VERSUS MAYBE WHAT THESE MEMBERS OF THE CLUB, THESE CHARACTERS THAT YOU WERE PROFILING WERE DESCRIBING TO YOU?

>> I HAD CERTAIN PERCEPTIONS OF WHAT PRISON AND PEOPLE IN PRISON WERE LIKE.

FALSE IMPRESSIONS REALLY, AND AS I GOT TO KNOW PEOPLE MOVING THROUGH THOSE SPACES, I REALIZED THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OF US OUT HERE.

YOU KNOW, THE POPULAR MEDIA, OF COURSE, TRUE CRIME DOESN'T DO US ANY FAVORS IN DESCRIBING WHAT THESE HUMAN BEINGS ARE ACTUALLY LIKE.

CRIMES.

THEY ARE THREE DIMENSIONAL PEOPLE WITH GOALS AND DREAMS AND FAMILIES, BUT WHAT I WAS REALLY INTERESTED IN THE STORY OF THE THOUSAND MILE CLUB IS IN THE FACE OF WHAT SEEMS LIKE OVERWHELMING SYSTEMIC PROBLEMS, THIS IS A STORY OF HOPE.

THIS IS A STORY OF TRANSFORMATION, AND REALLY COACH FRANK RONA, HE TOOK HIS PASSION FOR LONG DISTANCE RUNNING, CREATED COMMUNITY AROUND THAT.

THAT HAS HAD A RIPPLE EFFECT, YOU KNOW, BEYOND THE WALLS OF THE PRISON.

>> TYPICALLY I DON'T QUESTION ANY OF THE INMATES ABOUT THEIR CRIME.

IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER MUCH TO ME WHAT THEY'VE DONE IN THE PAST.

WHAT MATTERS TO ME IS WHAT ARE THEY DOING NOW AND WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO IN THE FUTURE.

>> KRISTINE, MARKELLE IS JUST ONE OF THE CHARACTERS THAT YOU PROFILE.

LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THE OTHER ONES.

START WITH TOMMY WICKARD.

>> TOMMY WICKARD, FORMER NAZI WHITE SUPREMACIST GANG MEMBER WHO HAS, YOU KNOW, OVER THE YEARS HE WAS A SERIAL CRIMINAL.

BUT BEING AN ASIAN AMERICAN FEMALE, I CAN DEFINITELY ATTEST TO THE FACT THAT THOSE DAYS ARE BEHIND HIM, YOU KNOW.

AND FURTHER THE DATA DOES SHOW THAT AS PEOPLE BECOME OLDER, THEY DO AGE OUT OF CRIME, BUT I WAS VERY INTERESTED IN PROFIING TOMMY BECAUSE HIS STORY REALLY SHOWS THE STRUGGLES OF NAVIGATING BEING A FATHER AND A HUSBAND FROM PRISON, AND I'M VERY GRATEFUL TO HIS FAMILY FOR OPENING UP THEIR LIVES TO US SO THAT WE CAN GET A PEEK INTO WHAT THOSE STRUGGLES REALLY ARE.

>> SHE'S LIKE MARRY ME.

I WAS LIKE MARRY ME?

I'M PROBABLY NEVER COMING HOME.

>> I CAN UNDERSTAND THE LAWS ARE THE LAWS, BUT I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE MAD AT MY DAD.

NO ONE'S GOING TO TAKE THAT FROM ME.

I KNOW HE FEELS SORRY, BUT TELL ME THEN BECAUSE I SHARE MY TO HIS SON.

>> SO MARKELLE, YOU KNOW WHAT, I CAN SEE SOMEBODY WATCHING THIS AND SAYING WHY ARE ALL KINDS OF THESE PROGRAMS INSIDE PROGRAM.

THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE THERE TO BE PUNISHED, WHY SHOULD PRISONERS HAVE ACCESS TO THINGS LIKE THIS?

>> BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S THE SMART WAY TO DO THAT BECAUSE IF NOT, IT WILL BE EITHER AGAINST EACH OTHER OR TOWARDS THE CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS OR BOTH.

IT'S ALREADY A VERY DANGEROUS ENVIRONMENT.

SO WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO BE ABLE TO GET GUYS FOCUSED ON OTHER THINGS INSTEAD OF ON EACH OTHER.

TO DO THAT YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE THESE PROGRAMS TO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHERE THEY COME FROM, WHY THEY ACTED OUT THE WAY THEY ACTED OUT AND WHAT CAN GET THEM TO THAT PLACE WHERE THEY CAN BE A DECENT HUMAN BEING AGAIN AND FIND THEMSELVES, AND FIND THEIR AUTHENTIC SELVES TO BE ABLE TO HELPFUL HUMAN BEING THAT THEY ALWAYS WAS MEANT TO BE.

WITHOUT THESE PROGRAMS AND WITHOUT THIS RUNNING COMMUTE AND WITHOUT THIS RUNNING CLUB, I THINK SOCIETY OUTSIDE AND INSIDE OF PRISON WILL BE A VERY DANGEROUS ENVIRONMENT.

>> I'LL ADD TO THAT FOR A SECOND BECAUSE THE DATA SHOWS THAT 90% OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN PRISON DO EVENTUALLY FIND THEIR WAY OUT.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S ACTUALLY A MATTER OF PUBLIC SAFETY THAT WE WANT TO HAVE PROGRAMS IN PRISON SO THAT PEOPLE WON'T RESID VISE.

FOR THE MEMBERS WHO HAVE GOTTEN OUT THERE IS A 0% RECIDIVISM RATE, COMPARED TO THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IN THE U.S. AFTER FIVE YEARS, 67%.

SO OBVIOUSLY THE RUNNING PROGRAM AND A LOT OF THESE PROGRAMS ARE -- YOU KNOW, IT'S DOING SOMETHING RIGHT.

IT'S A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, AND IT IS A MATTER OF NATIONAL PUBLIC SAFETY THAT WE DO ENGAGE IN REHABILITATION >> WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE THE STRUCTURAL OBSTACLES FROM IMPLEMENTING A PROGRAM LIKE THIS ELSEWHERE?

>> I THINK IT REALLY HAS TO DO WITH THE CULTURE OF HOW WE INCARCERATE PEOPLE.

YOU KNOWS THERE'S -- OBVIOUSLY THE CULTURE OF OVER POLICING AND THE RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN THE ADMINISTRATION AND THE POPULATION, AND FOR THAT REASON, THAT IS WHY WE ARE ON A MISSION TO GO TO DIFFERENT PRISONS TO SCREEN THE FILM, TO HAVE A PLAT -- WE'LL CREATE A PLATFORM FOR DISCUSSION.

TO MEET WITH THE ADMINISTRATIONS SO WE ARE -- HAVE RECEIVED A LOT OF INVITATIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE THE STATE OF NORTH DAKOTA, THEY LET US KNOW THAT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LOCKED UP IN THAT STATE ARE THERE DUE TO DRUG-RELATED OFFENSES.

SO THE IDEA OF REPLACING AN ADDICTIVE HIGH WITH MAYBE A SO-CALLED RUNNER'S HIGH IS -- IS WHAT THEY'RE INTERESTED IN.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT SAYING THAT RUNNING IS GOING TO SOLVE THE MASS INCARCERATION PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY, OKAY?

WE DON'T WANT TO OVER SIMPLIFY IT.

BUT WHAT I DO KNOW IS THAT WHEN I DID TALK WITH A LOT OF THE GUYS, THEY WILL SAY THAT WHEN THEY CAN COMPLETE FIVE MILES, YOU KNOW, SUDDENLY THEY HAVE THIS NEW CONFIDENCE.

THEY CAN THEN, OH, I CAN COMPLETE MY GED.

OH, I CAN, YOU KNOW, NOW I CAN DEAL WITH RECONNECTING WITH MY FAMILY MEMBERS.

SO IT DOES SET OFF A CHAIN REACTION OF LIKE POSITIVE BEHAVIORS.

>> MARKELLE, I KNOW YOU SERVED 18 YEARS FOR SECOND DEGREE MURDER.

IF IT WASN'T FOR THESE PROGRAMS, IF IT WASN'T FOR THE THOUSAND MILE CLUB, IF I JUST PUT YOU IN PRISON, DIDN'T GIVE YOU ANY OF THESE PROGRAMS, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY MORE YEARS YOU WOULD HAVE HAD, BUT -- AND IF YOU HAD COME BACK OUT, WHAT WOULD BE MARKELLE TAYLOR THEN VERSUS THE MARKELLE TAYLOR THAT WE'RE SEEING TODAY?

>> MY LIFE THE WAY I WAS LIVING, I WAS SO MENTALLY SICK AND DISTRAUGHT THAT I OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN CONTINUED TO PUNISH MYSELF, ESPECIALLY FOR THE CRIME THAT I COMMITTED.

SO I COULD NEVER FORGIVE MY OWN SELF BECAUSE OF MY ADDICTION TO ALCOHOLISM BECAUSE I WAS MASKING MY ORIGINAL PAIN AND THE THINGS I WAS GOING THROUGH IN MY LIFE, I WAS OF VERY SAD AND UNHAPPY AND I WAS JUST MAKING ONE BAD DECISION AFTER ONE BAD DECISION BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY I WAS LIVING MY LIFE, YOU KNOW.

I THINK WITHOUT THESE PROGRAMS AND WITHOUT THE RUNNING CLUB, I PROBABLY WOULD STILL BE IN PRISON, AND I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE DIED BY NOW.

I PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE MADE IT.

>> TO BE PATROLLED IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, ONE MUST PROVE TRANSFORMATION AND HAVE EVIDENCE OF TRANSFORMATION, SO IF YOU DON'T HAVE A PATHWAY TO PROVE TRANSFORMATION, SUCH AS GETTING AN EDUCATION, SUCH AS COMPLETING MARATHONS, SUCH AS, YOU KNOW, ANY OF THESE HELP GROUPS, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, THERE ARE MORE OPPORTUNITIES THAT PEOPLE HAVE IN PRISON THAN THEY EVER HAD ON THE STREETS, YOU KNOW.

THEY HAD THOSE OPPORTUNITIES WHEN THEY WERE KIDS, YOU KNOW, WOULD THEY HAVE LANDED THERE?

THAT'S THE QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, I CAN TELL YOU THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT I TALK WITH IN PRISON JUST ANECDOTALLY, YOU LEARN VERY QUICKLY THAT ALL OF THE THINGS THAT CREATE SUCCESS FOR PEOPLE IN LIFE, ACCESS TO EDUCATION, SOME KIND OF FINANCIAL MEANS, SOME KIND OF MENTORSHIP OR FAMILY STRUCTURE, MOST PEOPLE IN PRISON JUST DON'T HAVE THAT.

OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE DID SOMETHING TO LAND THEMSELVES THERE, BUT YOU KNOW, WE AS A SOCIETY TOO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.

YOU KNOW, WOULD PEOPLE BE THERE IF THEY DID HAVE ACCESS TO EDUCATION, IF FAMILY STRUCTURES WERE NOT BROKEN BECAUSE OF MULTIGENERATIONAL INCARCERATION.

THAT IS ALSO A BIG QUESTION, HOPEFULLY PEOPLE CAN LOOK AT THE FILM AND, YOU KNOW, THESE WALLS WILL TURN INTO WINDOWS AND PEOPLE CAN TAKE A LOOK, A BETTER LOOK AT LIFE INSIDE AND WHAT THAT REALLY ENTAILS.

>> SO MARKELLE, A COUPLE THINGS.

I MEAN, NOW THAT THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER PEOPLE IN PRISONS THAT MIGHT BE SEEING THIS FILM, WHAT DO YOU WANT THEM TO TAKE AWAY FROM IT?

>> WHAT I WANT IS THEM TO BELIEVE IN THEMSELVES, TO KNOW THAT EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT ACCEPTED, THAT THEY ARE NOT THE WORST THING THEY EVER DONE AND THAT AS LONG AS THEY CAN STRIVE TOWARDS A REALITY THAT THEY KNOW THAT CAN FIT THEM LIKE -- AND I'M GOING TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE WITH RUNNING.

AS LONG AS I KNOW THAT I CAN MAINTAIN A SEVEN MINUTE MILE PACE AND TRAIN TOWARDS THAT AND COMPLETE THAT, THAT'S MORE REALISTIC THAN I CAN ACHIEVE EVEN HIGHER GOALS IF I PUT MY MIND TO IT AND JUST NEVER GIVE UP AND ALWAYS BELIEVE YOU ARE NOT YOUR WORST CRIME.

I AM NOT MY LIFE'S CRIME AND I AM A WONDERFUL BEAUTIFUL HUMAN BEING IS WHAT I WOULD HOPE THAT THEY WOULD TAKE OUT OF THAT.

>> AND MARKELLE, ALSO, LOOK, I AM -- I AM AN AMATEUR RUNNER COMPARED TO HOW YOU HAVE NOT ONLY QUALIFIED BUT FINISHED THE BOSTON MARATHON.

CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT IT'S LIKE FOR YOU OR WHAT IT WAS LIKE FOR YOU TO FINISH THAT RACE?

>> THE EXPERIENCE, MY RUN IN BOSTON, HAVING AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT WAS A VERY HUMBLING, APPRECIATIVE SITUATION FOR ME TO WHERE I FELT LIKE A TOTAL SENSE OF FREEDOM AND JUST -- JUST REALLY, REALLY TRULY GRATEFUL TO HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY.

>> WHAT WAS IT LIKE WHEN YOU CROSSED FINISH LINE?

WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR HEAD?

>> I MADE IT OUT OF PRISON.

IS I MADE IT OUT OF PRISON.

I DIDN'T EVEN -- THINGS WAS JUST SO FAST FOR ME AT THAT TIME BECAUSE IT WAS JUST NOT EVEN TWO MONTHS OUT OF PRISON.

IT WAS LIKE A MONTH AND SOME CHANGE WHEN I GOT OUT, AND IT WAS LIKE, MAN, I'M CROSSING THE FINISH LINE IN BOSTON.

IT WAS LIKE -- IT WAS SO LIKE -- I COULDN'T EVEN REALLY UNDERSTAND IT.

IT WAS JUST -- I JUST WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT JUST I SURVIVED, WHAT I WENT THROUGH IN PRISON AND GOT OUT AND HAD A SECOND CHANCE AT LIFE.

>> THE FILM IS CALLED "26.2 TO LIFE," FILMMAKER CHRISTINE YOO, AND THOUSAND MILE CLUB MEMBER ALUMNI AND MARATHONER, MARKELLE TAYLOR.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

THIS WAS A REAL HONOR.

>> AND YOU CAN WATCH 26.2 TO LIFE IN SELECT CINEMAS ACROSS THE UNITED STATES NOW.

>>> MY NEXT GUEST HAS SPENT A LOT OF TIME INSIDE PRISON WALLS ON DEATH ROW, IN FACT, SISTER HELEN PREJEAN IS THE WELL-KNOWN NUN AND A LEADER IN THE MOVEMENT TO ABOLISH AMERICA'S DEATH PENALTY, OFTEN STAYING AND PRAYING WITH INMATES UNTIL THE VERY END.

HER MEMOIR "DEAD MAN WALKING" INSPIRED AN OSCAR WINNING FILM STARRING SUSAN SARANDON AND SEAN PENN AND AN OPERA WHICH JUST HAD ITS MET DEBUT IN NEW YORK.

HERE'S A CLIP WHERE SISTER PREJEAN IS TRYING TO PERSUADE AN INMATE TO CONFESS HIS SINS.

♪ LOOK I'M REALLY SORRY THAT THOSE KIDS ARE DEAD ♪ ♪ SORRIER THAN YOU'LL EVER KNOW ♪ ♪ BUT I AIN'T CONFESSING TO SOMETHING THAT I DIDN'T DO ♪ ♪♪ ♪ I'M TRYING, I'M TRYING TO HELP YOU, JOSEPH ♪ ♪ YOU'VE GOT TO TELL ME THE >> SO LET'S TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK BACK AT MY 2019 CONVERSATION WITH SISTER PREJEAN HERSELF.

SISTER, HELEN PREJEAN, WELCOME TO OUR PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU, GLAD TO BE HERE.

I JUST WONDER WHETHER WHEN YOU STARTED OUT AS A NUN YOU HAD ANY NOTION THAT YOUR ACTIVISM WOULD BECOME SUCH A MASSIVE PART OF YOUR LIFE AND SUCH A MASSIVE PART OF OUR GLOBAL CONSCIOUSNESS.

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I DIDN'T HAVE MUCH OF AN IDEA OF ACTIVISM AT ALL.

I MEAN, CONVERT LIFE, A RELIGIOUS LIFE BEFORE VATICAN WAS PRETTY MUCH BEING PRAYERFUL AND PIUS AND CHARITABLE GOING OUT TO TEACH.

BUT I DIDN'T PICTURE ACTIVISM IN THE PUBLIC SQUARE AT ALL.

CHANGE THAT FOR US AND THE WHOLE CHURCH OR LAKE POPE FRANCIS REFERS TO THE CHURCH NOW, IT OUGHT TO BE A FIELD HOSPITAL OUT THERE WITH THE WOUNDED.

SO RIVER OF FIRE, MY BOOK IS ABOUT WAKING UP TO THE SOCIAL DIMENSION OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS, AND BEING ON THE SIDE OF MARGINATED POOR PEOPLE WHICH LED ME TO MOVE INTO AN AFRICAN AMERICAN INNER CITY PROJECT IN NEW ORLEANS, THAT'S WHEN I REALLY WOKE UP.

>> LET ME ASK YOU, HOW OLD WERE YOU WHEN YOU ENTERED THE CONVENT?

>> I WAS A CHILD ARE BRIDE OF CHRIST, I WAS 18 YEARS OLD.

CRIED ALL THE WAY TO NEW ORLEANS WHEN I ENTERED THE DIVISION, LEFT MY FAMILY HOME, BUT I KNEW WHAT I WANTED AND IN THE '50s, A LIFE FOR A WOMAN THAT -- WHERE YOU COULD BE RELIGIOUS AND SPIRITUAL, YOU COULD BE WITH OTHER SPIRITUAL SEEKERS, AND YOU COULD DO WORK AND DEVELOP YOUR INTELLECTUAL LIFE AS WELL.

WE HAD GREAT NUNS THAT TAUGHT US, AND I WANTED TO BE A TEACHER.

I WANTED TO BE ONE OF THEM, AND SO I DID.

>> SO TELL ME THEN, YOU MAKE A DELINEATION BETWEEN WHEN YOU JOINED AND THEN YOU SAY VATICAN 2.

FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT WHAT DID IT DO, AND HOW MANY YEARS AFTER YOU JOINED DID THAT HAPPEN?

>> YEAH, WELL, I JOINED THE SISTERS OF ST. JOSEPH IN 1957, VATICAN 2 AND SO IT WAS TO HELP THE CHURCH ENTER THE MODERN WORLD.

SO IT FREED UP NUNS TO BE ABLE TO JUST SAY, LET US GET OUT THERE AND MEET THE PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE, AND IT FREED ME UP THEN TO MOVE INTO THE ST. TOM MISS HOUSING PROJECTS.

THEN I GATE LETTER, WRITE A LETTER TO A MAN ON DEATH ROW, AND BEHOLD, TWO AND A HALF YEARS LATER I'M WITNESSING HIS EXECUTION.

>> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY KNOWS ABOUT YOU FROM "DEAD MAN WALKING," YOUR BOOK AND ALSO THE FILM THAT WAS MADE STARRING SUSAN SARANDON AS YOU AND SEAN PENN AS ONE OF THE CONDEMNED MEN, AND WE'RE GOING TO PLAY A LITTLE CLIP OF ONE OF THE SCENES WHERE YOU ARE ACCOMPANYING ONE OF THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE ABOUT TO BE EXECUTED, AND THEN WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT.

>> YOU DID A TERRIBLE THING, A TERRIBLE THING, BUT YOU HAVE A DIGNITY NOW, NOBODY CAN TAKE THAT FROM YOU.

YOU ARE A SON OF GOD, MATTHEW.

>> NOBODY EVER CALLED ME NO SON OF GOD BEFORE.

CALL ME A SON OF YOU KNOW WHAT A LOT OF TIMES, NEVER NO SON OF GOD.

>> SISTER PREJEAN, HOW CLOSE TO REALITY WAS THAT SCENE?

>> RIGHT ON TARGET.

I COULDN'T HAVE WORKED WITH MORE COLLABORATIVE PEOPLE THAN SUSAN SARANDON, TIM ROBBINS AND SEAN.

THAT IS AN ACTUAL STATEMENT FROM ONE OF THE MEN I WAS WITH.

NOBODY EVER CALLED ME A SON OF GOD BEFORE, I'VE BEEN CALLED A SON OF A YOU KNOW WHAT MANY TIMES.

THEY WANTED TIM ROBBINS AND SUSAN SARANDON REALLY WANTED TO GET IT RIGHT, I WORKED WITH THEM ON EVERY LINE AND EVERY SCENE OF THAT MOVIE.

>> BEYOND THE MOVIE, IN YOUR OWN LIFE, WHAT WAS IT THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO BRING TO THESE PEOPLE -- I THINK YOU ACCOMPANIED SIX PEOPLE TO THEIR DEATHS.

WHAT WERE YOU ABLE TO DO FOR THEM?

I MEAN D YOU PRAY WITH THEM AT THE LAST MOMENT?

DID YOU HOLD THEIR HANDS?

WERE YOU IN THE CHAMBER?

WHAT DID YOU DO FOR THEM?

WHAT WERE YOU ALLOWED TO DO?

>> IT'S WHAT ANY HUMAN BEING DOES WITH SOMEONE WHO'S FACING SUCH AN EXIGENT PSY IN THEIR LIFE OF DYING OR BEING KILLED.

IT WAS TO GIVE THEM DIGNITY.

IT WAS TO BE PRESENT TO THEM.

IT WAS TO BE ABLE TO SAY TO THEM, LOOK, YOU DID A TERRIBLE, UNSPEAKABLE THING, BUT YOU'RE WORTH MORE THAN THE WORST THING YOU'VE EVER DONE IN YOUR LIFE.

I MEAN, I RECOGNIZE OUR COUNTRY IS VERY FAR AWAY AT THIS POINT IN THE UNITED STATES OF RECOGNIZING THAT THE DEATH PENALTY IS THE TORTURE OF HUMAN BEINGS BECAUSE IMAGINATIVE, YOU KNOW, CONSCIOUS HUMAN BEINGS CAN'T HELP BUT ANTICIPATE BEING KILLED.

AND WE ARE JUSTIFYING IT BY SAYING, OH, BUT LOOK WHAT THEY DID, SO WE'RE GOING TO DO TO THEM WHAT THEY DID TO THE VICTIMS.

WHAT KIND OF STANDARD OF MORALITY IS THAT?

SO IT'S TO BRING PEOPLE INTO THE HUMAN STORY IS WHAT I DID WITH "DEAD MAN WALKING" AN EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT.

AND THE READER LEARNS WITH ME, AND IN THE MOVIE YOU FOLLOW ME.

I WASN'T SURE OF MYSELF.

I WAS LEARNING AS I GO.

TIM ROBBINS SAID ALL THROUGH THE MAKING OF THE MOVIE, THE NUN WAS IN OVER HER HEAD, AND INDEED THAT'S REALLY TRUE.

>> THIS BOY IS TO BE EXECUTED IN SIX DAYS.

YOU MUST BE VERY, VERY CAREFUL.

>> WELL, MATTHEW, I MADE IT.

>> NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE?

>> NO.

>> NEVER BEEN THIS CLOSE TO A MURDERER BEFORE?

>> NOT THAT I KNOW OF.

>> I JUST WANT TO HELP HIM TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT HE DID.

>> SO WHAT RIVER OF FIRE DOES, AWAKENING THAT IT WAS NOT JUST TO PRAY TO GOD TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS OF THE WORLD, BUT PRAYER WAS TO QUICKEN ME TO BE ABLE TO ROLL UP MY SLEEVES AND REACH OUT TO THE SUFFERING WORLD AND TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

SO IT TALKS ABOUT SOMEBODY COMING TO AN AWAKENING, GOSPEL OF JESUS, CHRISTIANITY CAN BE VERY MISUSED.

I CRINGE AT WHAT CHRISTIANITY DOES WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEONE LIKE EX-ATTORNEY GENERAL JEFF SESSIONS QUOTE ROMANS 13, AN EPISTLE OF ST. PAUL TO JUSTIFY THE SEPARATION OF CHILDREN FROM THEIR PARENTS AT THE BORDER, SAYING THAT IF SOMETHING'S LEGAL, THEN IT'S OF GOD.

IT HAS THE AUTHORITY OF GOD.

THESE PARENTS ARE BREAKING THE LAW BY BEING ILLEGAL AND SO WE'RE JUSTIFIED IN SEPARATING THEM FROM THEIR CHILDREN.

THEY BROUGHT IT ON THEMSELVES, DIVINE AUTHORITY TO JUSTIFY WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

WE GOT TO GET CHRISTIANITY RIGHT.

IT'S ABOUT JUSTICE.

IT'S ABOUT THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE A CHANCE AT A DECENT LIFE, AND NOT USING IT TO HURT PEOPLE, TO PUT PEOPLE DOWN, TO EXCLUDE PEOPLE, TO VILIFY PEOPLE.

>> I WONDER WHETHER YOU HAVE A VIEW ON WHAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS DOING AND IN THE WORDS OF THE CURRENT U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL, BRINGING BACK THE FEDERAL DEATH PENALTY AFTER A MORATORIUM OR A HIATUS OF ABOUT 20 YEARS.

LET ME JUST PLAY WHAT WILLIAM BARR HAS SAID ABOUT THIS.

>> WE WILL BE PROPOSING LEGISLATION PROVIDING THAT IN CASES OF MASS MURDER OR IN CASES OF MURDER OF A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER THERE WILL BE A STRICT TIMETABLE FOR JUDICIAL PROCEEDINGS THAT WILL ALLOW THE IMPOSITION OF THE DEATH SENTENCE WITHOUT UNDUE DELAY.

PUNISHMENT MUST BE SWIFT.

>> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT, AND PARTICULARLY IN THE WAKE OF THE EL PASO MASS MURDER AND THE DAYTON, OHIO, MASS MURDER WHERE PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ASSOCIATES WERE CALLING VERY LOUDLY FOR THE DEATH PENALTY FOR WHAT THEY CALL THESE MOST HEINOUS OF CRIMINALS?

>> THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE WHAT THE DESIGNER DEATH PENALTY HAS BEEN FROM THE BEGINNING.

WHEN THE SUPREME COURT PUT THE DEATH PENALTY BACK IN THE GREGG DECISION, THEY SAID IT'S ONLY GOING TO BE RESERVED FOR THE WORST OF THE WORST.

IN THE ACTUAL PRACTICE OF WHO'S BEEN EXECUTED AND WHO'S SITTING ON DEATH ROW, IT'S ALWAYS POOR PEOPLE AND ALMOST ALWAYS PEOPLE WHO HAVE KILLED WHITE PEOPLE.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO THE FEDERAL DEATH PENALTY ANY BETTER THAN THEY'RE DOING IT IN THE STATES, AND WHILE HE MAY THINK AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL MIGHT THINK JUST BY DOING A FIAT, WE'RE GOING TO UNLEASH NOW ALL THESE EXECUTIONS, I'VE BEEN TALKING TO FEDERAL DEFENSE ATTORNEYS WHO ARE GOING TO BE WORKING MIGHT AND MAIN TO DELAY, THROW MONKEY WRENCHES IN THAT MACHINERY OF DEATH, DELAY IT AND POSSIBLY FORESTALL IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH.

>> IN THE MOMENT LEADING UP TO THEIR FINAL LETHAL INJECTION THAT YOU WITNESSED, WHAT DO THESE DEATH PENALTY INMATES FEEL?

WHAT DO THEY GO THROUGH?

>> WHAT IS SO SURREAL ABOUT THEIR DEATHS IS THAT IT'S IMPOSED ON THEM, AND THERE ARE TWO RED TELEPHONES IN THE KILLING CHAMBER.

ONE IS TO THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, AND ONE IS TO THE COURTS.

SO WITH THEIR CONSCIOUSNESS BEING WHAT IT IS IN THE LAST MOMENT, I'M TRYING TO GET MY LEGS TO WALK ACROSS THIS FLOOR.

EVERYBODY I'VE KNOWN ON DEATH ROW HAS THE SAME NIGHTMARE, AND IT IS THE GUARDS ARE COMING.

IT'S MY TIME, THEY'RE DRAGGING ME OUT OF MY CELL AND YELLING NO, NO, AND THEN I WAKE UP.

IT WAS JUST A DREAM, NOT TONIGHT.

BUT LATER, AND THEN TO COUNT DOWN THE DAYS I'M GOING TO BE KILLED FRIDAY AT 6:00 P.M., AND TODAY'S TUESDAY SO THERE'S WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY, AND YOU'RE COUNTING DOWN THE TIME TO DIE.

IT'S THE MOST SURREAL THING THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE IN THE WORLD, AND THEN IF ONE OF THOSE RED TELEPHONE RINGS WHEN YOU'RE WALKING INTO THE EXECUTION CHAMBER, THE EXECUTION DOESN'T HAPPEN.

I WAS WITH DOBEY WILLIAMS, THREE TIMES.

HE WAS KILLED ON THE THIRD THREE, BUT TWICE BEFORE, ONCE WHEN HE WAS BEING SERVED HIS LAST MEAL, THE WARDEN CAME UP TO HIM, SAID, I DON'T WANT TO PUT YOU ON A ROLLER COASTER, BUT WE JUST GOT A FAX FROM THE SUPREME COURT.

YOU GOT A STAY.

AND THE STAY WAS LIKE FOR ONE WEEK, AND THEN THEY TOOK HIM OUT AND KILLED HIM.

SO IT'S THE MOST SURREAL THING IN THE WORLD OF THIS DEATH, PREMEDITATED, A PROTOCOL OF DEATH IMPOSED ON HUMAN BEINGS WHO TRY TO DO THE BEST THEY CAN TO -- AND THAT WAS THE CAUSE OF MY DIALOGUE WITH POPE JOHN PAUL II.

WHEN I'M WALKING WITH A MAN TO EXECUTION, AND HE'S SHACKLED HAND AND FOOT AND HE'S SURROUNDED BY GUARDS AND HE KIND OF TURNS HIS HEAD AND SAYS SISTER, PLEASE PRAY THAT GOD HOLDS UP MY LEGS WHILE I WALK.

YOUR HOLINESS, WHERE IS THE DIGNITY IN RENDERING A HUMAN BEING DEFENSELESS AND TAKING THEM OUT AND KILLING THEM.

CAN YOU HELP THE CHURCH TO SEE THAT DIGNITY OF ALL LIFE, NOT JUST THE INNOCENT BUT THE GUILTY AS WELL, AND POPE JOHN PAUL DID A LOT TO MOVE IT FORWARD OF THE DEATH PENALTY IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND POPE FRANCIS ON AUGUST 2nd, 2018, FINALLY AFTER 1600 YEARS DECLARED UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CAN THE PREMEDITATED KILLING OF A PERSON FOR A CRIME BE ALLOWED THE GOVERNMENT TO DO.

>> CAN I ASK YOU, YOU MENTIONED LETTERS TO THE POPES AND MEETINGS WITH THE POPES.

YOU WENT TO MEET WITH POPE FRANCIS PERSONALLY TO DELIVER HIM A LETTER ABOUT YOUR CONCERNS OF THE WAY WOMEN ARE TREATED INSTITUTIONALLY BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

WHAT PRECISELY WERE YOU TRYING TO GET OUT OF HIM?

WHAT WAS YOUR MAJOR COMPLAINT?

>> IT WAS TO CONDUCT DIALOGUE ABOUT WOMEN IN THE CHURCH, WHICH ARE NOT PART OF POLICY MAKING, DECISION-MAKING, AND I SAID TO THE POPE IN THE LETTER, WHEN IT'S ALL MALES MAKING ALL THESE DECISIONS, IT'S NOT HEALTHY.

HOW ARE WE GOING TO HAVE A HEALTHY CHURCH IF WE DON'T TAKE SERIOUSLY THAT WHEN WOMEN ARE BAPTIZED, THEY ARE BAPTIZED IN THE IMAGE OF CHRIST JUST LIKE A MAN, THAT YOU CAN'T RELY ON AN ACCIDENT OF BIOLOGY AS TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN FULLY IMAGE CHRIST, AND IT WAS TO MOVE THAT DIALOGUE ALONG WITH WOMEN JUST AS WE'VE DONE ON THE DEATH PENALTY.

SO DIALOGUE TAKES A LONG, LONG TIME, BUT WHEN YOU'VE BEEN A WITNESS TO SOMETHING AS I HAVE WITH THE DEATH PENALTY YOU CAN BRING PEOPLE THERE TO KEEP THE DIALOGUE GOING, TO WAKE UP THE PEOPLE FIRST AND FOREMOST.

BUT IT'S THE SAME THING WITH WOMEN IN THE CHURCH, ANY MORAL ISSUE THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE INHERENT DIGNITY OF PEOPLE AND TREATING THEM WITH THAT DIGNITY.

SO I KNEW I WAS GOING TO BE ONE PART OF THE DIALOGUE BY HAVING THIS LETTER TO THE POPE, BUT YOU HAVE TO KEEP THE -- WHEN YOU LOVE LIKE I LOVE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, YOU KEEP THE DIALOGUE COMING.

I LOVE MY COUNTRY, SO I KEEP THE DIALOGUE COMING ABOUT WHY WE SHOULDN'T TAKE PEOPLE AND STRAP THEM DOWN AND KILL THEM.

WITH YOU LOVE PEOPLE, YOU STAY AT THE TABLE AND YOU KEEP TALKING.

>> SISTER PREJEAN, YOU OBVIOUSLY NOW IN YOUR OWN CLOTHES AND YOU'VE TAKEN YOUR OWN NAME, THIS THIS FOR A LONG TIME, BUT PRE-VATICAN 2 AND WHEN YOU JOINED THE NUNNERY, YOU WERE WEARING A HABIT.

YOU HAD A DIFFERENT NAME THAT YOU TOOK AS A SISTER.

HOW IS PERSONAL LIFE AND PERSONAL SPACE CHANGED FOR YOU IN THE YEARS, YOU KNOW, SINCE YOU'VE -- AT 18, NOW YOU'RE 80.

YOU ENTERED AT 18.

HOW HAS IT CHANGED FOR YOU?

>> THAT WAS THE SEISMIC CHANGE IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OF WHAT THE ECUMENICAL VATICAN 2 DID FOR US.

>> WHICH WAS IN THE EARLY 1960s, RIGHT?

>> '62 TO '65.

>> GOT IT.

>> BEFORE WE DRESSED IN A HABIT, WHICH WAS THE ORIGINAL WIDOW'S GARB OF 1650 IN FRANCE BECAUSE WIDOWS WERE THE ONLY WOMEN THAT COULD GO OUT UNACCOMPAIED BY MEN.

AND APOSTOLIC ORDERS WERE THE FIRST.

IT WAS DIFFERENT FROM BEING A CLOISTERED NUN.

YOU KNOW, EVEN THE LINE IN SHAKESPEARE, GET THEE TO A NUNNERY, IF YOU WENT TO A NUNNERC YOU NEVER WENT OUT AGAIN, HAVE A LIFE OF PRAYER, DEEP MEDITATION, COMMUNITY, BUT THEN YOU REACH OUT AND YOU'RE FREE.

YOU'RE A FREE AGENT TO BE ABLE TO SEE NEEDS AND RESPOND.

SO OUR SISTERS, THE SISTERS OF ST. JOSEPH, WE HAD THE FREEDOM TO DO THAT.

AND I WOULD BE NOWHERE WITHOUT THE SISTERHOOD.

THE SISTERHOOD ARE UNDER ME.

THE SISTERHOOD HELPED ME GROW UP.

>> SISTER HELEN PREJEAN AUTHOR OF RIVER OF FIRE, YOUR MEMOIR.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, IT'S A JOY.

>> AN INCREDIBLE AND INSPIRING WOMAN, FINALLY TO ANOTHER SUCH ONE TONIGHT RKTS HATTIE'S COME HOME.

HATTIE McDANIEL WAS THE FIRST BLACK PERFORMER TO WIN AN OSCAR FOR HER ROLE AS MA'AM MEE IN SHE BEQUEATH IT HAD TO HOWARD UNIVERSITY, BUT IT WENT MISSING DECADES AGO, NOW THE ACADEMY HAS GIFTED A REPLACEMENT TO THE UNIVERSITY WHERE IT WAS ON DISPLAY BEFORE ITS DISAPPEARANCE.

>>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOOD-BYE FROM LONDON.