>> BRAUDE: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON:" I'M JOINED BY THE JOURNALIST BEHIND A NEW HULU DOCUMENTARY EXPLORING THE LINKS BETWEEN A TRIPLE MURDER IN WALTHAM IN 2011, AND THE BOSTON MARATHON BOMBINGS NOT EVEN TWO YEARS LATER.

COULD SOLVING THE FIRST MURDERS HAVE PREVENTED THE SECOND?

THEN, MULTI-TALENTED DROPKICK MURPHYS FRONTMAN KEN CASEY JOINS ME ON THE EVE OF THE BAND'S LATEST ALBUM RELEASE-- A COLLABORATION OF SORTS WITH WOODY GUTHRIE-- AND JUST WEEKS AHEAD OF HIS LATEST RESTAURANT OPENING, WITH A LITTLE TASTE OF WHAT'S TO COME.

♪ ♪ ♪ >> BRAUDE: ON SEPTEMBER 11, 2011, THREE PEOPLE WERE FOUND MURDERED IN A WALTHAM APARTMENT.

THE VICTIMS ALL HAD THEIR THROATS SLASHED.

AND TO THIS DAY, THE CASE REMAINS UNSOLVED.

POLICE INDICATED AT THE TIME THAT IT APPEARED TO BE A DRUG DEAL GONE VERY WRONG, CITING THE FACT THAT ALL THREE VICTIMS SOLD MARIJUANA.

BUT OTHERS THINK THERE'S A LOT MORE TO THE STORY, AS IS EXPLORED IN A NEW HULU DOCUMENTARY.

>> WHEN THE WALTHAM MURDERS HAPPENED ON SEPTEMBER 11, 2011 CLEARLY THE POLICE DIDN'T SEEM TO GIVE MUCH THOUGHT TO THE IDEA THAT THE DATE WOULD BE SIGNIFICANT-- THAT THIS WAS A RITUALISTIC ACT.

>> IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THE RESOURCES NECESSARY TO BRING THIS INVESTIGATION TO A VERY QUICK AND SUCCESSFUL CONCLUSION WERE NOT DEVOTED TO THAT INVESTIGATION.

>> BRAUDE: THE SERIES IS "MURDERS BEFORE THE MARATHON," BECAUSE THE JOURNALIST AT THE CENTER BELIEVES THAT IF THE WALTHAM CASE HAD BEEN SOLVED IT WOULD HAVE PREVENTED THE BOSTON MARATHON BOMBINGS A YEAR AND A HALF LATER.

THAT JOURNALIST IS SUSAN ZALKIND-- WHO, FULL DISCLOSURE, USED TO BE MY INTERN WHEN I HOSTED A TV SHOW ON NECN-- AND HAS SINCE GONE ON TO REPORT FOR "THIS AMERICAN LIFE," "BOSTON MAGAZINE," "THE GUARDIAN," "THE DAILY BEAST," VICE, AND MORE.

>> BRAUDE: SUSAN ZALKIND, CONGRATULATIONS, IT'S REEL AMAZING.

>> DID I MAKE YOU PROUD.

>> Braude: WE'LL SEE HOW THE INTERVIEW GOES.

HOW DID YOU GELT INVOLVED IN THIS THING?

>> IT WAS THE MOST UNUSUAL MURDER CASE IN NEW ZEALAND, AND I LOOKED INTO IT AND FOUND ONE OF THE VICTIMS WAS MY FRIEND.

>> Braude: HOW LONG A PERIOD OF TIME WAS IT BEFORE YOU FIRST READ ABOUT IT ONLINE AT NECN UNTIL YOU FOUND OUT ONE OF THE THREE VICTIMS WAS SOMEONE YOU'D BEEN CLOSE TO.

>> A FEW DAYS.

I SAW POSTS ON Facebook THAT I DIDN'T WANT TO BELIEVE THEM ABOUT R.I.P.

HEADY E. AND I GOT THE EMAIL AND WAS PRAYING IT WAS A DIFFERENT ERIC WEISMAN.

>> Braude: BUT IT WASN'T.

A YEAR LATER, HOW AGGRESSIVELY WOULD YOU SAY LAW ENFORCEMENT PURSUED THE MURDERERS IN THATIARY AND A HALF.

>> IT APPEARS NOT TO HAVE BEEN AGGRESSIVELY INVESTIGATED AT ALL.

THIS WAS ONE OF THE MOST UNUSUAL HOMICIDES I'D HEARD OF IN THE NEW ENGLAND AREA IN DECADES.

YOU'D THINK THAT THEY WOULD PUT ALL THEIR RESOURCES INTO FINDING OUT WHAT HAPPENED AND, APPARENTLY, THAT WASN'T THE CASE.

>> Braude: PART OF THE LACK OF BEING AGGRESSIVE HERE, TSARNAEV, ONE OF THE TWO PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MURDERS IN THE MARATHON IN APRIL 2013, WAS A CLOSE FRIEND OF ONE OF THE PEOPLE MURDERED IN WALTHAM.

FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND FROM YOU AND OTHERS, A NUMBER OF PEOPLE SAID TARM LYNN TSARNAEV WAS SOMEONE WHO SHOULD BE SPOKEN TO.

WAS HE?

>> APPARENTLY, HE WAS NOT, THERE WERE A NUMBER OF REASONS TAMERLAN TSARNAEV SHOULD HAVE BEEN QUESTIONED?

>> Braude: WHAT ARE ARE THEY?

HE WAS A FRIEND OF THE VICTIMS.

BRENDAN HAD A PURPLE BELT IN JIU JITSU.

>> Braude: ONE OF THE VICTIMS.

HE WENT TO THE GYM THREE OR FOUR TIMES A WEEK AND TRAINED WITH TAMERLAN TSARNAEV.

EVEN WITHOUT PEOPLE CLOSE TO THE CASE HANDING TAMERLAN TSARNAEV'S NAME ON A SILVER PLATTER, DON'T YOU THINK INVESTIGATORS SHOULD HAVE GONE TO THE GYM.

>> Braude: HE WAS VERY CLOSE TO BRENDAN AND ONE OF THE ODD THINGS ACCORDING TO FRIENDS HE DIDN'T GO TO THE FUNERAL.

THAT DIDN'T PIQUE INTEREST IN LAW ENFORCEMENT EITHER.

>> HE WAS BEST FRIENDS AND SPARRING PARTNERS WITH BRENDAN MASS.

>> Braude: FAST FORWARD.

WE ALL KNOW ABOUT THE HORROR OF THE MURDERS.

A MONTH LATER, ABRAHAM TADASHEV IS IN AN APARTMENT IN ORLANDO, BEING QUESTIONED -- ORLANDO, FLORIDA -- BEING QUESTIONED BY AN F.B.I.

AGENT, STATE POLICE FROM MASSACHUSETTS WERE PRESENT THERE AS WELL.

HE'S MURDERED, SHOT, I SHOULD SAY, AND KILLED, TO BE FAIR, BY THE F.B.I.

AGENT.

WHAT DID TADASHA TELL THEM BEFORE SHE WAS SHOT AND KILLED?

>> THIS HAS BEEN THE FOCUS OF MY INVESTIGATION FOR YEARS TO TIG FIGURE OUT WHAT IBRAHIM TADASHEB SAID, HE IMPLICATED HIMSELF AND TSARNAEV IN THE HOMICIDE.

>> Braude: IN CONFESSION.

WHEN HE WAS SOT SEVEN TIMES AND ONCE IN THE TOP OF THE HEAD.

>> Braude: HOW MANY LAW ENFORCEMENT PEOPLE WERE IN THE ROOM.

>> THREE.

>> Braude: AND HIM.

WERE THE POLICE OFFICERS ARMED.

>> THEY WERE.

I MEAN, ONE OF THE FOCUSES OF THIS DOCU-SERIES AND MY WORK IS THAT MIDDLESEX WAS IN CHARGE OF THIS INVESTIGATION.

THERE WAS.

>> Braude: MIDDLESEX COUNTY HERE.

>> THIS IS AN ADA OFFICER WHO TOLD HIM AFTER IBRAHIM CONFESSED NOT TO PUT HIM IN CUFFS.

THERE WAS NO ARREST PLAN FOR CONFRONTING A TRAINED FIGHTER IN HIS OWN HOME ABOUT A GRUESOME TRIPLE HOMICIDE CONNECTED TO BOSTON MARATHON BOMBING.

>> Braude: HOW MANY TIMES WAS HE SHOT?

>> SEVEN.

>> Braude: SEVEN TIMES IN HIS APARTMENT.

>> IN HIS OWN HOME.

AND THIS IS A MAN WITH A TRACK RECORD OF VIOLENCE.

FOR ME, IT'S A FOUR AND A HALF INTERVIEW.

KNOWING WHAT I KNOW ABOUT IBRAHIM, IT'S SURPRISING TO ME HE WOULDN'T ATTACKED THE MEN SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.

>> Braude: WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT TADASHA BECAUSE NONE OF US EVER HEARD OF HIM BEFORE THIS.

>> WELL, HE WAS AN ASPIRING MAA FIGHTER, TRAINED AT THE GYM WITH TAMERLAN TSARNAEV AND HAD A HAIR TRIGGER TEMPER.

THREE OR FOUR WEEKS BEFORE HE WAS SHOT, HE BEAT A MAN BLOODY IN A PARKING LOT AND SEPTEMBER HIM HOME ON A STRETCHER.

THE INVESTIGATORS KNEW ABOUT IBRAHIM BEFORE THEY QUESTIONED HIM.

>> Braude: YOU DID RESEARCH INTO WHETHER OR NOT TADASHA WAS EVEN HERE AT THE TIME OF THE TRIPLE MURDERS, AND DESPITE SOME PEOPLE CLOSE TO HIM SUGGESTING HE WAS NOT, WHAT DID YOU CONCLUDE ON THAT FRONT.

>> BECAUSE THE NATURE OF THE INTERVIEW WAS SUSPICIOUS, A MAN KILLED IN THE MIDDLE OF A CONFESSION, I NEED INFORMATION SEPARATELY FROM THE REPORTS KB FIRMING WHETHER TADASHA WAS IN BOSTON AT THE TIME OF THE MURDERS.

PEOPLE CLOSE TO HIM SAID HE WAS NOT, THERE WAS AN ALIBI.

EVENTUALLY THE STORY CHANGED AND I FOUND OUT HE WAS IN BOSTON AT THE TIME OF THE MURDERS AND HE LEFT TWO DAYS LATER WITH A TACK OF CASH.

>> Braude: TIME FRAMES FOR A MINUTE.

MORE THAN A YEAR AND A HALF FROM THE TRIPLE MURDERS IN WALTHAM, THE MARATHON BOMBING AND ALL THAT CAME WITH IT IN APRIL OF 2013, I THINK MAY OF 2013 THIS HAPPENS WITH TADASHA.

DID THE INVESTIGATION PICK UP STEAM WHEN THIS GUY SAYS ONE OF THE MARATHON BOMBERS WAS MY PARTNER IN A TRIPLE MURDER IN WALTHAM?

>> NO, AND I WOULD LOVE FOR THE MIDDLESEX DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TO PROVE ME WRONG TO ACCOUNT FOR HOW MUCH THEY DID AND DID NOT INVESTIGATE THIS CASE BEFORE AND AFTER THE MARATHON BOMBING.

>> Braude: THEY HAVEN'T BEEN TERRIBLY FORTHCOMING BECAUSE THEY SAY IT'S AN OPEN INVESTIGATION.

>> YES.

AND THEY SAY THIS VACUUM WAS LEFT BY THE FACT LAW ENFORCEMENT DIDN'T FILL IT.

>> CAN I SAY ONE THING?

>> Braude: SURE.

DANIEL MASTY, HE HASN'T BEEN QUESTIONED, LAW ENFORCEMENT DID NOT GO BACK TO HIM AFTER THE BOMBING AND SAY, HEY, YOU TOLD US THIS THEN, WHY DON'T WE TALK ABOUT IT NOW?

THAT STILL HASN'T HAPPENED.

SO WHEN I SAY THIS IS NOT BEING THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATED, I KNOW THAT BECAUSE I'M TALKING TO PEOPLE WITH CRUCIAL INFORMATION ABOUT THIS CASE HOFF NOT BEEN CONTACTED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> Braude: BY THE WAY, THIS IS ANT DOCUMENTARY, YOU CAN HEAR THEM IN THEIR OWN WORDS.

I STARTED TO SAY A VACUUM WAS CREATED BY VIRTUE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT NOT FILLING IT, AND SOME PEOPLE WHO WE SEE IN THE NEWS QUITE FREQUENTLY NOT IN THE MOST PLEASANT OF WAYS FILLED IT.

LIKE WHO FOR EXAMPLE, ALEX JONES?

>> EXACTLY.

THAT WAS PART OF WHAT MOTIVATED ME TO FIND ANSWERS IS BECAUSE THERE WAS NO INFORMATION FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT.

ANYONE IN POWER.

INSTEAD, THERE WAS A VACUUM WHERE YOU HAVE RT NEWS AND ALEX JONES SPREADING THIS.

>> Braude: RUSSIA TODAY.

RUSSIA TODAY, AND A LOT OF THOSE CONSPIRACY THEORIES LIVE ON TODAY.

>> Braude: I KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE THIS QUESTION VERY MUCH.

WE DISCUSSED THIS WHEN YOU WERE ON THE RADIO WITH ME AND MARGERY A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO.

THERE ARE TWO WHY QUESTIONS.

WHY IN YOUR ESTIMATION, I KNOW IT'S PURELY CONJECTURE ON YOUR PART, WAS LAW ENFORCEMENT SO UNINTERESTED IN SOLVING THIS CASE AND THEIR BEHAVIOR SUGGESTS PRIOR TO WHAT HAPPENED IN ORLANDO, FLORIDA, BUT MUCHO MORE CONFUSING -- WELL, NOT CONFUSING -- I SHOULD SAY THE LACK OF INTEREST AFTERWARDS.

OBVIOUSLY, WOULD HAVE BEEN HUMILIATED HAD THE DOTS BEEN CONNECTED HAD THEY PURSUED TAMERLAN TSARNAEV, WOULD HAVE BEEN A DIFFERENT OUTCOME, BUT WHY AFTER THE WALTHAM MURDERS DID THEY SHOW SUCH LITTLE INTEREST IN YOUR ESTIMATION?

>> THE WHY QUESTIONS ARE INTERESTING BUT WHAT WE HAVEN'T ACCOUNTED FOR IS THE FACT IT WAS NOT THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATED.

THE WHY QUESTION IS GREAT BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE SOLID INFORMATION, AND I WILL HAVE MORE INFORMATION IN MY BOOK, YOU CAN ALMOST DISTRACT PEOPLE.

YOU HAD THIS WITH THE PROPAGANDA THAT WAS SPREAD BY RUSSIA TODAY AND YOU HAD POLITICIANS ASKING THE F.B.I., WAS TAMERLAN TSARNAEV AN INFORMANT?

THEY WONDERED WHY HE WASN'T QUESTIONED AFTER A TIP FROM RUSSIA ABOUT HIS RADICALIZATION.

AND THE FOCUS ON ALL THAT QUESTIONING WAS WAS HE AN F.B.I.

INFORMANT RATHER THAN WHY WAS THIS NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE NOT THOROUGHLY ADDRESSED.

WELL THE FACT THAT -- WHAT I'M SAYING IS, RATHER THAN WHY WE HAVEN'T ADDRESSED THE FACT THAT THERE ARE THESE LAPSES.

>> Braude: SPEAKING OF LAPSES, ALSO LAPSES IN INFORMATION AND DISCLOSURE TO YOU, BUT WHAT YOU TOLD US RECENTLY IS THERE'S ACTUALLY GOOD NEWS, THE DAM APPEARS TO BE BREAKING TO A DEGREE.

>> TO A DEGREE.

>> Braude: HOW SO.

AFTER THREE APPEALS AND A PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST ASKING MIDDLESEX TO TURN OVER THEIR RECORDS, THE SECRETARY OF STATE HAS SIDED WITH ME AND ASKED MIDDLESEX TO TURN OVER ALL RECORDS TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE.

>> Braude: ARE THEY DOING THAT?

>> IT LOOKS LIKE THERE ARE CONVERSATIONS AND TO THEIR CREDIT THEY ARE TAKING ACTION TO COMPLY.

>> Braude: DO WE SEE WHAT IS DELIVERED?

>> MIDDLESEX SAYS NONE OF IT IS ADMISSIBLE.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE WILL SEE WHAT IS ADMISSIBLE.

>> Braude: IN THE TEN YEARS OF WORK AND IT HAS BEEN TEN YEARS OF ALMOST CONSTANT WORK YOU'RE INVOLVED IN THIS THING, ARE YOU CONVINCEDCONVINCED BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT TSARNAEV WAS INVOLVED IN THE MURDERS IN WALTHAM?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Braude: IS IT FAIR TO SAY AND YOU'RE RIGHT, THE CRIME HAD BEEN SOLVED, THAT A LOT OF BROKEN BODIES WOULD HAVE BEEN SPARED?

THAT CONNECTION -- I MEAN, THAT IS 100% THE CASE IF YOU ARE RIGHT?

>> IT'S TERRIBLE BUT TRUE, I DON'T SEE ANY OTHER REASONABLE EXPLANATION FOR WHAT HAPPENED.

>> Braude: YOUR WORK IS TERRIFIC, YOUR DOCUMENTARY IS, TOO.

SUSAN ZALKIND.

>> HOW DID I DO?

>> Braude: EXCELLENTLY WELL, PROUD FORMER INTERN.

SUSAN ZALKIND.

ALL THREE EPISODES OF "MURDERS BEFORE THE MARATHON" ARE AVAILABLE TO STREAM ON HULU NOW, AND SUSAN'S BOOK ON THE CASE, "THE WALTHAM MURDERS," WILL BE COMING NEXT YEAR.

YOU'LL LIKELY RECOGNIZE MY NEXT GUEST AS THE VOICE OF A CLASSIC.

(SINGING) ♪ I'M SHIPPING UP TO BOSTON WHOOA-OAAH-WHOAAA ♪ >> BRAUDE: NOW, THE DROPKICK MURPHYS ARE RELEASING THEIR 11TH STUDIO ALBUM "THIS MACHINE STILL KILLS FASCISTS," WHICH IS OUT TOMORROW.

THE NAME COMES FROM A PHRASE SINGER-SONGWRITER WOODY GUTHRIE ONCE HAD PAINTED ON HIS GUITAR, AND THE ALBUM IS A COLLABORATION WITH THE LEGENDARY SINGER, SONGWRITER, AND ACTIVIST, WHO THE BAND'S FRONTMAN, KEN CASEY CALLS THE "ORIGINAL PUNK."

(SINGING) ♪♪ ♪♪ >> BRAUDE: BUT OFF-STAGE, CASEY HAS HAD A LOT GOING ON AS WELL.

A STAPLE IN THE BOSTON FOOD AND BAR SCENE FOR WELL OVER A DECADE, INCLUDING THE NOW SADLY CLOSED MCGREEVERY'S PUB, GOING ON TO PARTNER ON LOWER MILLS TAVERN, IN DORCHESTER, AND YELLOW DOOR TAQUERIA, ALSO IN DORCHESTER, THE SOUTH END, AND THE SOON-TO-OPEN MISSION HILL LOCATION LATE NEXT MONTH.

KEN CASEY JOINS ME NOW.

KEN CASEY.

>> GREAT TO BE HERE.

>> Braude: WHAT'S WITH YOU AND MEXICAN FOOD?

>> WHO DOESN'T LOVE TACOS.

>> Braude: OKAY.

IN MY TRAVELS, I'VE EXPANDED MY PALETTE BECAUSE I WOULD THINK ESPECIALLY GROWING UP BOSTON WASN'T NECESSARILY KNOWN AS A PLACE TO GET A GREAT TACO, BUT I HAVE BEEN LUCKY ENOUGH TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME TRAVELING AROUND AND I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE FUN TO BRING THE CONCEPT ON HOME.

>> Braude: YOU PRETENDED A MINUTE AGO THAT YOU HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH COOKING.

>> I DID.

>> Braude: RAISE YOUR HAND AND TELL ME.

>> WE HAVE A FRYER IN THE GREEN ROOM, I DROP THE FISH IN MYSELF.

>> Braude: SHALL I TRY THE FISH?

>> THE FISH IS MY FAVORITE.

>> Braude: WHAT KIND OF FISH.

LOCAL HADDOCK.

>> Braude: MM-MMM!

OH, THAT IS FABULOUS!

ACTUALLY, THAT REALLY IS FABULOUS.

>> MANGO PUREMANAGE PURE, PINEAPPLE.

>> Braude: MANY OF THE PEOPLE ARE IN THE FOOD BUSINESS.

WHAT DREW YOU TO THIS?

>> THE McGREEVERY'S CONCEPT DREW ME INTO IT, WHICH SADLY CLOSED WITH THE PANDEMIC.

WHEN DROPKICKS DID THE SONG TESSY AND SOME OF THE HISTORY BEHIND THE SONG CAME OUT WHEN THE RED SOX WON THE WORLD SERIES AND THE ORIGINAL BASEBALL BAR WAS McGREEVERY'S AND A LOT OF FANS HUNG AROUND THERE, AND WE OPENED A REPLICA OF THAT.

I WAS MORE INTO IT FROM THE BASEBALL SIDE.

HAD BEEN LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE GROWN UP WITH A GOOD FRIEND PRIENBRIAN O'DONNELL.

I HAD THE IDEA, HE HAD THE KNOWLEDGE, PUT THEM TOGETHER, AND WE HAD A BUNCH OF OTHER PLACES TOGETHER.

>> Braude: IS HE GOING TO BE SURPRISED WHEN YOU SAID A MINUTE AGO YOU COOKED THIS STUFF?

>> SHOCKED.

ACTUALLY HORRIFIED.

>> Braude: THIS IS SER VIRGINIA -- THIS ISSERVICHY.

>> YOU HAVE TUNA AND IT TOOK ITSELF RIGHT IN THERE IN THE OILS AND STUFF, AND YOU HAVE WATERMELON IN THERE.

AMAZING.

GOES GREAT ON THE CHIPS.

CHIPS AND GUAC IS MY FAVORITE.

>> Braude: I HAD IT LAST NIGHT.

>> WHEN YOU GO INTO AN ITALIAN PLACE, I'M FULL BY THE TIME THE TACOS COME.

>> Braude: WE'LL KEEP OATING IN A SECOND.

THE C.D.

IS COMING OUT TOMORROW ENTITLED "THIS MACHINE STILL KILLS FASCISTS."

EXPLAIN THIS INCREDIBLE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE GUTHRIE FAMILY AND YOU GUYS.

>> SURE.

SO, 20 YEARS AGO, NORA GUTHRIE, WOODY'S DAUGHTER, IN CHARGE OF THE ARCHIVES OF ALL WOODY'S HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF PAGES OF LYRICS HE NEVER PUT TO MUSIC, MAYBE HE HAD IN HIS MIND BUT NEVER RECORDED OR WROTE DOWN THE MUSIC AND, AT THE TIME, NORA -- 20 YEARS AGO, NORA'S SON COLE, A TEENAGER AND A DROPKICK MURPHYS FAN, SAID I THINK DAD WOULD HAVE GOTTEN A KICK OUT OF THIS, WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS IN COMMON.

WE WERE INVITED DOWN TO GO THROUGH THE ARCHIVES 20 YEARS AGO.

AT THE TIME HOLDING THE ACTUAL PIECE OF PAPER HE WROTE THE SONG ON.

>> Braude: WHAT DOES IT FEEL LIKE TO KNOW HIS HAND TOUCHED THE THING YOU ARE TOUCHING NOW.

>> I KEPT GETTING YELLED AT.

IT WAS A TEMPERATURE-CONTROLLED ROOM AND I WAS WEARING GLOVES, AND THE WOMAN IN CHARGE OF THE ROOM WOULD SAY, YOU HAVE TO BE MORE GENTLE.

WOODY WOULD ALWAYS DATE -- YOU KNOW, WHEN THE SONG WAS WRITTEN.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THESE SONGS WERE WRITTEN MID 30s TO MID 50s.

HOW MUCH HAPPENED IN THE WORLD IN THAT PERIOD.

SO TO HAVE THAT DATE REALLY SHED SO MUCH LIGHT ON WHAT WAS HAPPENING WHEN HE WROTE IT AND, YOU KNOW, JUST AMAZING.

>> Braude: YOU GUYS PULLED -- JUST SO I UNDERSTAND, THE UNRELEASED LYRICS, AND YOU PUT MUSIC TO IT.

>> PUT MUSIC TO IT.

>> Braude: HAVING NO IDEA, REALLY, OBVIOUSLY, WHAT HE WOULD HAVE DONE WITH THE MUSIC.

>> RIGHT.

>> Braude: SO, I MEAN, YOU GUYS ARE HUGE.

BUT THEN THERE'S WOODY GUTHRIE.

>> YES.

>> Braude: I KNOW IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME YOU USED THE LYRICS.

>> YEAH.

>> Braude: HOW INTIMIDATING IS THAT TO DO THAT?

>> IT WOULD BE EXTREMELY INTIMIDATING IF IT WASN'T FOR THE FACT NORA HAS BEEN SO KIND TO US AND SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE MY TRUST.

I KNOW HOW HIGHLY YOU THINK OF MY FATHER AND RESPECT HIS WORKENNED IT'S IN YOUR HANDS AND I TRUST YOU.

AFTER BEING TOLD THAT AND BELIEVING IT -- YOU KNOW, WE WOULD ALWAYS RUN EVERY IDEA BY HER BUT SHE WOULD NEVER ONCE SAY I DON'T LIKE THAT OR CHANGE THAT, SHE WOULD JUST SAY, YOU HAVE MY TRUST AND MY FATHER WOULD BE PROUD OF IT.

>> Braude: HOW DOES THAT FEEL.

IT FEELS GOOD.

THIS ALBUM IS ALL ACOUSTIC BECAUSE WE WANTED TO GIVE IT SOME NOD TO HOW WOODY WOULD HAVE DONE IT.

OBVIOUSLY, IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

WE WENT TO THE TOWN HE WAS BORN IN, AND WE WERE WALKING DOWN THE STREET SHOOTING VIDEOS AND PLAYING THE GUITAR AND PEOPLE WOULD PULL UP, YOU HERE FOR GUTHRIE, AND THEY TOOK US IN A BACK ROOM OF A PLACE THAT HAD ALL KINDS OF OTHER GUTHRIE ARCHIVE STUFF.

SO MUCH HISTORY.

>> Braude: WHAT DID NORA THINK OF THE C.D.?

>> SHE LOVES IT.

WE HAVE A PART TWO THAT COMES OUT NEXT YEAR.

WE DID A MOVIE ON IT.

IT WAS REALLY NICE GOING BEYOND JUST THE MUSIC AND BEING ABLE TO DOCUMENT THE WHOLE PROCESS.

WE'VE NEVER DONE THAT DURING A RECORDING OR WHATNOT.

>> Braude: WHAT'S THIS THING?

THAT'S CHICKEN TINGA.

WE USUALLY FRY THE AVOCADOS AS WELL, BUT WE WERE DEFINITELY AFRAID THE FIRE ALARM WAS GOING TO GO OFF BACK THERE SO WE TRIED TO KEEP DOWN THE FRIER AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

>> Braude: THIS IS THE LAST OPPORTUNITY TO SAY YOU COOKED THIS.

DO YOU WANT TO RECANT?

>> FULL DISCLOSURE, I JUST COOKED THE FISH.

I DIDN'T HAVE A HAND IN THE CHICKEN.

>> Braude: THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU SAID AT THE BEGINNING.

>> I DID FRY THE CHURROS IS THAT WE'RE GETTING TO THAT DESSERT TIME.

WE TALK A LOT ON THIS SHOW ABOUT WHITE NATIONALISM AND VIOLENCE.

THE DIFFERENCE IS WE TALK ABOUT IT, YOU CONFRONT IT.

HERE'S YOU AND YOUR MATES, I THINK IN PENNSYLVANIA, EARLIER THIS MONTH.

HERE IT IS.

>> IF YOU'RE OUT THERE BUYING THOSE (BLEEP) HATS THAT THESE SWINDLERS ARE SELLING AT THE (BLEEP) FAIR-- I'M SORRY, KIDS-- I KNOW THERE'S KIDS HERE.

--THEN YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

AND I'LL TELL YA WHY.

BECAUSE YOU'RE BEING DUPED BY THE GREATEST SWINDLER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

YOU'RE BEING DUPED BY A BUNCH OF GRIFTERS AND BILLONAIRES WHO DON'T GIVE A (BLEEP) ABOUT YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.

>> Braude: I THINK MOST PEOPLE KNOW THERE'S THAT FAMOUS THING WITH THE NAZI ON THE STAGE IN 20 # 13 IN NEW YORK CITY.

OBVIOUSLY TRIED TO ENJOIN THESE NEO-NAZIS HERE WHO ARE USING ONE OF YOUR SONGS.

WHY DO THIS PUBLICLY?

WHY DO YOU ENGAGE?

WHY DO YOU DECIDE TO DO THIS?

I WAS STRESSED WHEN YOU SAID YOU WERE GOING TO PLAY THAT.

I'M GLAD YOU BEEPED EVERYBODY THAT OUT BECAUSE MY MOTHER GAVE ME A LITTLE CRAP ABOUT MY LANGUAGE.

>> Braude: I KNOW, A PRETTY GOOD ONE.

>> LISTEN, THE WAY I LOOK AT THINGS NOWADAYS, IT'S TO NOT SPEAK UP IS TO BE COMPLICIT BECAUSE WE COULD LOSE OUR DEMOCRACY IF WE JUST ASSUME THAT GOOD IS GOING TO WIN OUT OVER EVIL, AND I DO THINK IT'S EVIL.

JUST FROM THE POLITICAL SIDE, I FORGET THE WHITE NATIONAL SIDE.

BUT WHEN THE FORMER PRESIDENT, YOU KNOW, IS A SYMPATHIZER, IT ALLOWS THAT DARK UNDERPELY TO COME OUT FROM UNDER THE ROCK AND FEEL COMFORTABLE TO SHOW UP AT THE ST. PATRICK'S DAY PARADE WHICH NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED BEFORE.

SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN THE TOP ACKNOWLEDGES IT, YOU KNOW, STAND BACK AND STAND BY, THEN THEY COME OUT IN FORCE, YOU KNOW.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, I'M SURE YOU'VE HEARD THE INFAMOUS QUOTE FROM THE BEST BASKETBALL PLAYER WHO EVER LIVED MICHAEL JORDAN -- >> LeBRON.

>> Braude: NO, NOT FROM LeBRON.

>> HE'S HILARIOUS.

>> Braude: I KNOW.

HE WAS ASKED WHY HE WASN'T ENDORSING A PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATE FOR THE UNITED STATES SENATE YEARS AGO WHEN THAT GUY WAS RUNNING AGAINST AN INCUMBENT SEGREGATIONIST SENATOR, AND HE SAID REPUBLICANS BUY SNEAKERS, TOO.

THAT DOESN'T WORE YOU?

THEY'RE FANS, THEY BUY C.D.s.

>> I GET YOU, AND I DON'T TRY TO GO OUT AND GENERALLY MEDDLE IN PEOPLE'S BUSINESS WHERE I'M GOING TO DO A COMPLETE INVESTIGATION BEFORE THEY BUY A C.D., HOWEVER WE'RE IN DIFFERENT TIMES NOW, YOU KNOW, AND IF IT COSTS US FANS, IT COSTS US FANS.

I THINK WE'VE ALWAYS HAD THAT MINDSET.

>> Braude: WOODY GUTHRIE WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Braude: OBVIOUSLY, YOU COOKED THOSE DESSERTS.

>> I FRIED -- >> Braude: I -- I -- I -- YOU'VE NEVER BEEN AT A LOSS FOR WORDS ON THE STAGE.

WHAT AM I EATING HERE?

>> WORLD-FAMOUS CHURROS.

AND DULCE CABANA SAUCE.

BUT, YEAH, THESE ARE MY FAVORITE, OBVIOUSLY.

>> Braude: UNBELIEVABLE.

THE FOOD IS GREAT.

I CANNOT WAIT TO HEAR THE C.D.

WHAT I HEARD IS FABULOUS.

CONGRATULATIONS ON DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

GREAT TO SEE YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> Braude: SHAKE YOUR HAND.

TAKE CARE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: GREAT KEN CASEY.

THE ALBUM AGAIN IS "THIS MACHINE STILL KILLS FASCISTS."

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW FOR "TALKING POLITICS."

SARAYA WINTERSMITH WILL TALK TO TWO LOCAL LAWMAKERS HELPING TO DRIVE THE WHITE HOUSE PUSH TO END HUNGER IN LESS THAN TEN YEARS, AND THE NEW TACTICS THEY'RE AIMING TO TRY.

PLUS, NINE MONTHS AFTER MAYOR WU'S BIG MASS AND CASS CLEARING, RESIDENTS ARE SEEING ENCAMPMENTS AND DRUG USE RETURN.

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

STAY SAFE.

AND PLEASE-- DON'T FORGET ABOUT UKRAINE.

CAPTIONED BY MEDIA ACCESS GROUP AT WGBH ACCESS.WGBH.ORG ALICE FASTOV FROM DENHAM, MASSACHUSETTS, WANTS TO KNOW, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SPIDERWEBS AND COBWEBS?

WELL, THERE ARE SOME SPIDERS, LIKE, SAY, A BLACK WIDOW, THAT MAKE THESE DIMENSIONAL, IRREGULAR WEBS, AND THOSE ARE KNOWN AS COBWEBS.

BUT IN GENERAL, A COBWEB SIMPLY REFERS TO A SPIDER WEB THAT HAS BEEN ABANDONED.

NOW THAT "COB" IN COBWEB COMES FROM AN OLD MIDDLE ENGLISH WORD, COPPE, WHICH JUST MEANS SPIDER.

SUSAN FROM BOSTON ASKS, WHY DO WHEELS ON CARS IN TV COMMERCIALS SEEM TO BE SPINNING BACKWARDS?

WELL, SUSAN, WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE CAMERA IS, IT'S ACTUALLY TAKING JUST A BUNCH OF PICTURES, AND THEN YOUR BRAIN IS ASSEMBLING THOSE PICTURES, TO SAY, "I SEE MOTION."

NOW, WHEN THE SPEED IS JUST RIGHT, HERE'S WHAT'S GOING ON.

YOU GOT A CAR WHEEL.

LET'S SAY THERE'S A SPOT YOU'RE NOTICING ON THAT CAR WHEEL RIGHT THERE AT 12 O'CLOCK.

THE NEXT PICTURE IN THE CAMERA, THAT SPOT IS MAYBE AT 11 O'CLOCK.

THE NEXT PICTURE IN THE CAMERA, THAT SPOT IS MAYBE AT 10 O'CLOCK.

SO, WHAT YOUR BRAIN IS INTERPRETING IS THAT THE WHEEL IS ACTUALLY MOVING BACKWARDS.

INCIDENTALLY, THE SAME THING CAN HAPPEN JUST IN-PERSON-- YOUR EYE AND YOUR BRAIN KIND OF WORK THE SAME WAY AS THE CAMERA.

NOT EXACTLY, BUT IF THE SPEED IS RIGHT, YOU'LL NOTICE IT RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU.

WELL, THAT'S ALL WE HAVE TIME FOR TODAY.

DON'T FORGET TO LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE, AND PERHAPS MOST IMPORTANTLY, LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU ARE CURIOUS ABOUT!

BECAUSE, HEY, I MIGHT JUST LOOK INTO IT FOR YOU.

I'M EDGAR B. HERWICK III.

STAY CURIOUS OUT THERE.

♪ (UPBEAT MUSIC) >> THE "CURIOSITY DESK" IS SPONSORED BY EMERSON COLLEGE, INSPIRING CURIOSITY AND CREATIVE EXPRESSION IN ALL OF US.