Michigan Democrats say they're united.

But are they really?

We'll find out with more on Off the Record.

So sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the Record.

Production of Off the Record is made possible in par by Bellwether Public Relations, a full servic strategic communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and issue advocacy.

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And now, this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick.

Thank you very much.

Welcome to Off the Record, Studio C, we're taping on Thursday.

There's going to be big news that's going to happen after this show is going to be on the air, and we're going to look lik we don't know what's going on.

Normall we do.

Maybe sometimes.

Anyway.

That's a cover on what we've got coming up on the Democratic convention.

Curtis Hertel the party chair says they are united, but is they?

It's one thing for the Democratic Party to proclaim unity It's quite another to prove it.

It is true that unlike their convention last April in Detroit, this Democratic convention in Lansing this past weekend had no disruptions on the convention floor from progressives or for that matter, anybody else.

Everything went very smoothly.

And for that, party chair Curtis Hertel is both relieved and encouraged on the unity front.

However following the shooting at Temple Bethel in Oakland County, recently, Democratic candidate for the U.S.

Senate doctor Abdul El-Sayed made some comments there, some comments that did not sit well with the Jewish community.

Mr.

Hertel advised the candidate he needed to have a conversation with those Democrats, and he did over the weekend with this apology.

I don't ever want my comments to hurt anybody's feelings.

It's important to me that people understand, that I take seriously the pain of all communities in this state.

But underscoring the political collateral damage to his remarks, was this the Republican candidate for the U.S.

Senate, Mike Rogers, picked up the endorsement of the president of the Jewish Federation of Detroit, along with more than 300 other Jewish signatures on an open letter that everybody read at the convention and not everybody liked it.

This Democrat, however, was behind closed doors.

When doctor El-Sayed made his apology, he accepted it.

He said, I' sorry.

He said, what?

I'm sorry.

Is that good enough?

I think so.

Was it sincere?

I think so, what was he sorry about?

About the his comments about the, the shooting at the temple.

The candidate will continue to meet, he says, with that voting block, hoping to get them back in the fold.

But Mr.

Rogers contends it's, quote, too little, too late.

We're about to see if he's right.

All right.

So, Mr.

Mauger, you were there.

Are you you know, I think they were united on Saturday.

The question about United after that.

What what's.

Going on?

I mean, I think they're united in the goal of trying to win.

I mean, that's what they're obviously going to attempt to unify around.

That's not surprising.

Are there numerous divisions and reason for tension within the Michigan Democratic Party?

Yeah.

And could those be the biggest threat to their chances?

Yeah, I think that's probably true because they do seem to have a lot of momentum going right now.

But there are very real reasons that their coalitio could be extremely divided in a. Couple of ways.

Let's define terms here.

What does United mean?

Well, I think it means you're all rowing in the same direction.

I think what Democrats have struggled with for the last several cycles is defining themselves as a forward looking, entity, as opposed to a counter to Trump.

Right?

And so I think that it's going to be pretty easy for them to fall into the where the, the candidates on the ballot that, don't align with Trump Trump's agenda.

I think it's going to be a little bit harder for them to define what they're all about and get on the same pag for a lot of different factions.

So are there people with othe oars going in another direction?

Potentially?

It really depends on who you ask, I think.

I did think it was telling at the unity rally that all the candidates didn't come back out at the end and do the photo op, which, you know, was probably in large part because some of the candidates wanted to run on their own.

I think I think Jocelyn Benson and, when he brings want to run on their ticket and then and, and also help with the state House and Senate, which would of course, be a boost to Jocelyn Benson if she were to win the governor's race.

But, I think with the US Senate, there's it was a contentious primary.

There are still some wounds that have clearly not healed yet.

I don't get that.

By the way, why would they.

Not want a photo together?

Like, even if you say, hey, I don't like this person, I disagree with this person.

Why is there no effort to have a photo fired?

Might be included in the photo, but.

But they need his voters.

If you're Jocelyn Benson, you need his voters and he needs your voters.

It just baffles.

I mean, to me, it's politically baffling why they wouldn't stand on stage.

They're on the same ticket.

There were a. Lot of things missing at this convention.

I don't think any member of the congressional delegation was there right?

No, there was not one.

Yes.

Whitmer wasn't there and therefore wasn't there.

Haley Stevens wasn't there.

They had no come by, hands clasped, family Christmas card, you know, unity picture photo op at the end.

Nothing.

And I think it's basically ill say it.

A lot of these people in the Democratic Part running for office do not want to be associated with him.

They don't want little pictures taken out of this convention and replicated in ads on.

TV on the same ticket.

I think he does not make they.

Can't help, but legall they have to run as Democrats.

Look, there's only two thing that unite Democrats right now affordability and hatred of Donald Trump.

That's it.

Other than that, they're all over the map, and they're particularly all over the map between Muslims on the one hand, Jews on the other, and everything in between Palestine, Israel.

You get into that kind of a debate, and there are many of these candidates that want to have no association without saying they're going to be answering questions all fall.

And I. I mean, to be clea from my reporting, I don't know if it's because of Abdul's positions or if that's even the reason.

I don't know this, but I do think.

Abdul.

Has said things about some of these Democrats in the past that they are not letting go and are still frustrated by.

I mean, I can say that he's there.

And it's who he is.

I don't know that to be true or not true, but I but I hear what you're.

Saying, the percentage of th population who believe, I think.

In the case of Governor Whitmer, she was missing in action because she didn't want to be there to take any of the spotlight away from Jocelyn Benson.

I think, you know, I, I think her thinking is, for example, she when she is done in office, you know, she's not going to hang around in Lansing.

And all over the country right now.

And she's not going to be part of the controversy.

She doesn't want to be part of the conversation.

After she has.

Helped Michigan Democrats.

For her to be there and to say, hey, thi is that we all we need to align.

Well with Falling numbers and 41% maybe.

Maybe not.

Yeah, maybe not.

Maybe.

Not.

I, I think Whitmer struggling with her own base right now, some of the people who were her most ardent supporters are disappointed over things like her.

Line five decision over things like her, embrac her warm embrace of data centers in the state.

I think that she's, you know her favorability is slipping and that's not just in the polls, which, may or may not be super reliable lately.

That's in the conversations we're having with Michiganders across the state.

My counter to this would be Democrats have to show that there is room in their tent for all types of voters.

If you like a dual, hey, there's room for you here.

If you like Gretchen Whitmer's brand of politics, there's room for you.

If you like Elissa Slotkin or Dana Nessel, there's room for you in this ticket.

And I. Think by.

Not including all of thes people in these type of events, not pushing them out there, I think.

That makes it harder.

For them to argue.

Hey, we've got.

Space for everybody here.

I would say one thing it does accomplish is, you know, right now, especially on the progressive left, it seems like palestine-israel is sort of a litmus test.

That's an active issue for a U.S.

senator.

That's not an active issue for a governor of the state of Michigan.

Right?

They wouldn't have to deal with it in the same way that someone in the U.S.

Senate making spending decisions and stuff would.

So I wonde if Benson is sort of avoiding, you know, that litmus test applying to peopl who are going to vote for her?

And to be fair, it does make a lot of sense for her to focus on building out the candidates for the House, the Senate, to make sure, she wants that Democratic trifecta in the House and Senate.

That's a lot more useful to her politically than campaigning for a US Senate candidate.

Because, you know, she ultimately need the legislature to go along with some of her policy ideas.

So so I think politically it does make a lot of sense to have, to have a focus, like she said, on the, on the legislature and, and down ballot races.

But, you know, I think, I think from a outside perspective, sure.

They might, people might start to wonder, you know, why why Benson and El-Sayed are not necessarily campaigning together all the time.

Well, was it significant that she missed all of the caucuses on Saturday morning, which is the traditional drill for candidates?

They go around to every caucus, you know, people with the left who are left handed, people that have, you know, or, you know, 85 years old or whatever.

She was a no show.

Did you make note of that?

I mean.

I mean, I noticed it I, I don't think it's incredibly significant in terms of that anyone is going to say, hey, she didn't come to my caucus meeting, so I'm not going to be out there working for her.

I think.

No, no.

I'm not trying to I'm not trying to say that.

Well, I thought it was curious.

It's curious.

And I think.

Lauren is more is definitely I think getting it the right thin here is that Benson is trying to not have to tal about any of these controversial national issues, and she wants that be as she talks about laser focused on affordability.

Is that going to work, though?

She's going to have to talk about these things.

At some point.

Someone's going to ask her about Hassan Piker, like you're going to ge a question about on some piker.

As much as you don't want t have that question, I wish you.

Could borrow the answer from elsewhere on that, which is I'm not going to talk about it.

Yeah.

Which it took him like four months to, to realize that was the right answer.

Maybe.

But or one of the answers he could do.

But yeah he did arrive there.

Yes.

Yeah.

I, I don't think the unity thing is, is squishy.

You know.

Its squishy.

I would also point out that at these conventions, it's a self-selection of people who choose to attend.

We mentioned a lot of the people who weren't there.

I think, you know, at the actual endorsement convention where they were picking candidates for AG, SOS, or endorsing candidates for AG or SOS, there was a lot more fireworks.

There were a lot more kind of, groups that were, diametrically opposed and visibly opposed on the floor.

And, you know, I think that one of the, functions of endorsing so earl is that this actual nomination convention gets a little less steam.

Why have these anymore?

Can I throw that that take out?

Why are we still doing these August conventions?

I agree I think if you move.

Whos we?

The State of Michigan.

It's a state law.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean it's it's it's in the law that they have this nominating convention.

Why are you shaking your head?

What is a political party, Craig?

You think they shouldnt meet?

Well, I mean, there's nothing to be decided at.

These things, and they have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to put them on.

Were one of only two states who nominate our attorne general and secretary of state and state convention.

I hear you, I hear you, but.

But I do think that you can accomplish that at one convention instead of two.

We're sort of splitting one task across two conventions.

As it stands.

Right.

Well you tell a party chairman that.

Well, I don't I do thin they want to keep doing these.

I don't.

Know, I think.

They do.

If you're the Republicans, it's a fundraiser.

Is it?

I think they're losing.

They cost 25 bucks to get in York.

Convention to raise money to pay for the bill of holding a soaring.

Eagle or wherever they help.

They got a deal on the thing.

It's Soaring.

Eagle.

They did much better than they did down in Oakland County.

Like this.

This is a confusing issue for the voters.

I'm not sure anybody paid any attention to that convention.

Am I off the off the mark here?

No, there is a lot of it.

I mean, there is a lot of attention on what Abdul had to say.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, I think Abdul is there's a lot of people out there criticizing Abdul, saying, hey, why is he talking about this stuff?

But he's dominating the media cycle.

Day after day.

It's very reminiscent of, current president when he runs for office, how everyone's talking about him every day.

Abdul is doing that right now.

Will it work?

Well, it won't work.

We'll see.

But I mean, he he is definitely kind of the center of all.

Can he be the president o the federation back in the fold.

And those 300 people that signed that open letter?

I think th question is actually more about whether he can make the friends and neighbors of Jewish people feel like they're doing a fine thing by voting for him.

I think that, you know, when you look at the populations of Jewish people in Michigan versus Arabic people in Michigan, you know, the the demographics are what they are.

But I think that, you know, people on the left want to feel like they're doing a good thing, and they want to feel like they're supporting a candidate who's keeping everybody safe.

And I think that's really what he's trying to project.

Somebody.

No, Jim.

No.

All right.

Okay.

Going through the minds of Democratic leaders must be we've got this affordability.

We've got Donald Trump on the ropes.

He is on the roads.

His numbers are in the tank.

And here we are over here talking about these other issues.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, where politically it's got to be frustrating to somebody.

You know, I think that is a fair point.

And I think for a lot of a lot of voters, you know, it will ultimately come down to, can I, can I stomach it versus, you know, like how how badly do I wan to vote against Trump right now?

And I do also think to to the conversation, we were just having there is, there's an open question of what the coalition looks like.

If you lose some of those voters from the Democratic Party, you know, is there is certainly a chance, though, that you pick up some of those moderates, independents who maybe that's not their top issue.

Maybe Trump is.

Maybe the tariffs are, maybe the affordability is.

But the issue now is for the Democrats to get back on that topic, like the topic that has been dominating for the last couple of week is this question, especially of of where Jewish Democrats are a and is the longer that we stay on that conversation the worse it is for Democrats.

Yeah.

I mean, I think Attorney General Dana Nessel comments on Sunday, the Jewish Caucus just spoke to this directly, where she didn't say how she was going to vote in these races, but she basically said her thought process was is, you know, essentially voting for Republicans, putting humanity at risk.

And you.

That's what she said.

I mean, that's the weight of what she feels.

And I think their other members.

Rise above this conversation.

And look at the big picture here.

That's basically what she was getting at it.

And I'm sure she's going to expand on those comments.

But to this whole point.

Something I've been thinking a lot about from 2024 Democrats ran this campaign against Trump.

They thought this was the ticket to beat them.

We're going to talk about project 2025, and that's extreme.

It's so out of touch.

You should you should be scared of project 2025.

At the end of the day, voters weren't scared of that.

Duh.

And they wanted a change.

And they said, hey, my my personal financial situation is in dire straits and I need someone to do something about this.

I don't know what you'r talking about with project 2025, but somebody said, pay attention to this and I'm wondering if.

Is there a risk the Republicans are going to fall into that same.

trap?

Talking about this idea of socialism, talking about communism.

And voters are saying, well, what are you going to do so I can pay my bills this month?

Well, here's the opportunity for the Democrats.

If Bernie Porns numbers are correct.

Bernie's always right.

Okay.

The independent voters and we do we agree that independents decide elections to a large extent.

Most of the time, yes.

I'm hearing silence over.

Yeah.

I'm not shifting.

Okay.

Just for the sake of argument just for the sake of argument, here are the independent numbers for Donald Trump overall.

All of them lumped in together 16% favorable of Donald Trump, %62 unfavorable.

Independent men 23%, favorable 58%.

And women 7% favorabl to Donald Trump and 67% against.

Is that not ripe for picking?

If you were a Democrat running for office, boys and girls?

No, that's what they're going.

That's what they're going to run against.

I mean, it's almost as if they should be winning this election by a lot more tha they are in the current polls.

And it might speak to their brand is also no in the best position right now.

Yeah, it could be.

In additio to where Trump's numbers.

Are.

All right.

Let's talk about the Republicans.

John James held a news conference via zoom and is talking abou a tax credit for every student in the state of Michigan, or at least their parents who pay taxes.

We truly believe that this is civil rights issue of our time.

It's not even dressed up for the tax credit.

It is a voucher program.

They're calling a tax credit tax credits are vouchers as well.

Republican candidate for governor John James, supports a federal $1,700 tax credit for families that have kids in public, private, charter and home schools.

Republican Lieutenant Governor candidate Jay DeBoyer argues the state has a universal obligation to all students.

No matter where they go.

We have a responsibility to educate every kid in the state of Michigan, not just the ones that attend public schools.

However, Peter spread offer from the education lobby counters on two separate times.

Michigan voters have rejecte rejected sending public school money to nonpublic schools not only once, but twice.

The public opinion is that public dollars should be used for public classrooms.

Candidate James alleges this program does not hurt public schools.

This is no threat to anyone.

This is no threat to public schools.

But Mr.

Spadafore asserts it does hurt schools with a potential los of billions of federal dollars that could be going for public education.

Vouchers in any form are an attempt to siphon away public dollars that could be used for education.

So this does have an indirect and a direct impact on public education funding in the country and in the state of Michigan.

30 states have joined thi program, six have rejected it.

Michigan is listed as undecided.

Alright so what do you make of that?

You were sitting in on that.

I mean, it's an issue John's been talking a lot about for a year now, and I thought it was just kind of strange to me that they're going to hold a press conference and they're going to just recall for something they've already called for a number of times.

And then they told the reporters they only ask questions about this issue that we've only already been talking about for 12 months.

Don't you love that?

It was it was interesting.

What was your take?

You were there.

Well, yeah, I was there.

Uh.

(laughing) I had other questions.

Okay.

Yeah.

That' why I didn't get called on them.

Yes.

Yeah.

This this is the this is the voucher issue all over again.

They don't want to use the V word.

Didn't he predict that Whitmer would actually.

Yeah.

He predicted she left office.

She's undecided.

She's waiting for information from the Trump administration when she comes in January.

There are many state who have already accepted this, but of course, they're red states.

Yes.

And look, this goe all the way back to parochial.

That was the first 1 in 1970.

We've had two big ballot papers.

But is this an exciting.

Time for same old thing?

I don't know, I think.

No, I don't think so.

I would be very surprised.

I mean are people at home clamoring for the 1700 bucks?

I think.

I think Republicans would love education to be a deciding issue.

I don't think it is for most voters right now.

Yeah, I thin it's a really interesting issue because it's not breaking cleanly along Partizan lines.

Obviously, the Trump administration is, forwarding this program and a lot of people see it as sort of a voucher replacement, but it does have this element that would help public schools, theoretically, although, presumably to a smaller extent, because they don't have tuition, which is one of the, the main things that these grants could help students with.

So I do think that, you know, it's been kind of interesting to see some Democratic governors break for this in some against, and I think Whitmer's kind of kept her powder dry.

And so far Benton is too.

It's really hard to talk about two because it's such a complicated issue when you get in the weeds.

And the Trump administration ha not really publicly identified how this program can and cannot work.

Thats why the governor says shes waiting.

Yeah.

And then the question I think that the governor is waiting on is and there's been indications that, yes, they can do this.

Can they just say, hey, we'll take these tax credits, but it can only be used for public school students.

Like in Michigan, could they, you know, trim this program down to say it's only for public schools?

And then someone like Governor Whitmer might be more likely to go along with this.

I've heard from the Trump administration that, yes, you can do that.

Yeah, but maybe they maybe another governor gets in and John James is there and he says, oh, we're going to do it for all types of schools.

And then it becomes more controversial.

I mean, it would be fascinating to know when we didn't get to ask this question, where does John James stand generally on the Blaine Amendment that says, you cannot send taxpayer dollars to private schools?

Does he agree with that or not?

We didn't get to ask.

You know.

You know what I miss?

A news conference where reporters get to ask whatever they want to ask in person of the candidate or official standing in front of them.

That's what Abdul is doing.

I mean, to give Abdul El-Sayed credit, he does this like every three days and people criticize him for, you know, not talkin about the issues that they think he should be talking about.

But he is putting himself out there to answer questions from anybody and everybody.

And he deserves some credit for that.

The way he felt on.

Any subject.

He's taking questions.

I've been there multiple times where there are conservative outlets, Fox News, some of the local conservative outlets.

He will take their questions.

He invites them into his press conferences.

And why does he talk about some of the issues that he talks about?

Because that's what People are asking him about.

But I understand the politics of thi that gives them ultimate control over the whole process.

But that did not work i the 2024 presidential election.

Right.

This was kind of the two test of these strategies.

Donald Trump is out ther talking about everything to take in all these questions any time on tarmac's in the in, in briefing rooms.

And you had Kamala Harris, his campaign that tried to really narrow this down.

We're only going to talk about these three solutions that we have, anything else we're going to try to avoid.

And it it did not pan out for her.

I mean, in this day and ag where people are on their phones constantly and on their computer screens constantly, it's pretty difficult.

I think, to say, hey, we're going to really control how our candidate is perceived and viewed by everyone.

I think that's a lot harder to do.

I think, in this media cycle, Abdul El-Sayed sees an opportunity interes being available, he will go on any national TV show.

I mean, people are still talking abou the Jesse Watters thing, right?

He went on there, he made a big splash.

And he is he's continuin to do that over and over again.

I think even in the primary cycle, he said, I'm open to courting unconventional voters.

Just if people see the guy, if they think they might like him, you know, he's he's going for anyone and everyone at this point.

And, you know, we'll see.

We'll see how that goes.

But it is kind of in stark contrast to some of these other candidates going out, as Craig said on their very specific issues.

He's a great retail political athlete.

That's what he is.

But Mike Rogers isn't bad either.

Really.

When's the last time Mike Rogers has ha a press conference on anything?

There was a press conference a few weeks ago in Detroit in someone's front yard.

That was self-serving.

But it was, and it was.

That wasnt on the issues.

He was trying, I mean, People were not clamoring as to what the Detroit representative was going to do.

No, no, no.

But he took questions but his campaign tried to pick which outlets got to ask the questions.

And I yelled out a question at the end, because that' how you kind of get around that.

Yeah.

You know, as you do all the time.

But it's like, but it was totally different than how Abdul handles the media in terms of he's got like 20 reporters around him.

And I, at the Democratic convention.

He took question in that hallway for 15 minutes.

Yeah, I think there's a school of thought that maybe traditional media is becoming a less important or a smaller part of the landscape of wha a candidate needs to accomplish.

You look at some some of these candidates are getting themselves across so effectively on social media, and they feel like that replaces it.

Or, you know, they're buying airtime and they feel like that replaces it.

I would humbly disagree but I do think that, you know, it's a it's a valid perception that maybe talking to us isn't as important as it was 20 years ago.

I will confess my bias on behalf of the people.

Part of what they're paying us for is to ask these questions in the and I hate this term.

Strike it if you don't like it.

In the good old days, okay, candidate who wanted to run for governor got on an airplane and flew around the state in every media market and took questions from reporters.

And now Hillary Clinton mess this up for everybody.

She announced for president over the internet.

Major story like that.

You know what I'm saying?

There is a hunger from voters.

I mean, you can do all the TikToks you want, but there is a hunger from voters to hear from these candidates answering questions they don't want to answer.

Precisely.

People come up to me and say, can you ask him this?

Yeah, because they want to hear them take on tough questions.

That's why Jesse Waters and I think Abduls interview went so viral.

The way that it did.

All right, everybody, have a peaceful weekend.

We didn' we didn't talk about the story that's going to be breaking on Friday.

Okay.

Save the embarrassment okay.

For everybod.

But everybody have a nice weekend.

Thanks to you guys for showing up.

See you next week.

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