FROM OUR STATE HOUSE STUDIO IN MONTGOMERY, I'M TODD STACY.

WELCOME TO "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

BROADBAND WAS THE BUZZWORD IN ALABAMA POLITICS THIS WEEK.

FOR YEARS, THE STATE HAS BEEN MAKING PLANS TO EXPAND HIGH SPEED INTERNET INTO RURAL AREAS, BUT THE PROCESS AND THE FUNDING HAVE TAKEN TIME TO DEVELOP.

GOVERNOR KAY IVEY THIS WEEK AWARDED A, $82.45 MILLION GRANT TO BUILD OUT WHAT'S CALLED THE MIDDLE MILE, A NETWORK OF BROADBAND FIBER OPTIC LINES CONNECTING MORE COMMUNITIES IN PREPARATION FOR THE LAST MILE EXTENDING SERVICE INTO HOMES.

"CAPITOL JOURNAL'S" KAREN GOLDSMITH WAS IN PRATTVILLE FOR THE BIG ANNOUNCEMENT.

>> BECAUSE IN 2022, BEING ABLE TO BE CONNECTED AT HOME, AT WORK AND ON THE GO IS JUST ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.

>> ALABAMA GOVERNOR KAY IVEY AND SEVERAL STATE LEADERS SAY THE BROADBAND ANNOUNCEMENT WILL BE A GAME CHANGER, AN EQUALIZER AND TRANSFORMATIVE FOR THE STATE.

>> YA'LL, WITH THIS WINNING TEAM WE WILL BE CONNECTING ALMOST 3,000 MILES OF EXISTING AND NEW FIBER INFRASTRUCTURE WITHIN JUST THREE YEARS.

THIS WILL IMPACT MORE THAN 300 ALABAMA TOWNS AND CITIES.

>> THE WINNING TEAM THE GOVERNOR REFERENCED IS THE FIBER UTILITY NETWORK, A CORPORATION OF EIGHT RURAL ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

THEY RECEIVED THE $82 MILLION GRANT TO EXPAND BROADBAND THROUGHOUT THE STATE'S UNDERSERVED RURAL AREAS.

>> RECOGNIZING THE NEED TO BRING ALL ALABAMIANS INTO THE WORLD OF HIGH-SPEED INTERNET.

THE IMPACT WILL BE FELT FOR GENERATIONS.

ON BEHALF OF THE EIGHT MEMBERS OF THE FIBER UTILITY NETWORK, WE'RE HONORED TO BE CHOSEN TO BE A PARTNER WITH YOU IN BUILDING A MIDDLE MILE NETWORK, HIGH-SPEED DIGITAL HIGHWAY THAT WILL CONNECT MANY PREVIOUSLY LEFT OUT OF THE DIGITAL ECONOMY.

>> STATE SENATOR CLAY SCOFIELD CHAIRS THE ALABAMA DIGITAL EXPANSION AUTHORITY BOARD.

HE'S BEEN A LEADING LEGISLATIVE CHAMPION OF BROADBAND EXPANSION.

>> REALLY BELIEVE THIS DAY IS ALABAMA'S GREAT LEAP FORWARD.

I THINK THIS ANNOUNCEMENT IS GOING TO CHANGE OUR STATE FOR THE BETTER.

>> AND STATE SENATOR BOBBY SINGLETON IS A MEMBER OF THE DIGITAL EXPANSION AUTHORITY BOARD.

>> BROADBAND IS THE NEW UTILITY.

IT'S THE NEW POWER.

IT'S THE NEW WATER.

SO WE MAY AS WELL GET USED TO IT IN OUR LIVES.

>> WITHOUT THAT RELIABLE HIGH-SPEED INTERNET, IT BECOMES VERY, VERY FRUSTRATING.

IT BECOMES A COMPLICATING FACTOR OF OUR LIVES.

>> THIS MIDDLE MILE PROJECT IS EXPECTED TO PROVIDE FASTER AND MORE RELIABLE INTERNET.

FOR "CAPITOL JOURNAL," I'M KAREN GOLDSMITH.

>> ONE KEY VALUE OF BROADBAND INTERNET IS THE ADVANTAGES IT OFFERS LOCAL EDUCATION SYSTEMS.

THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC HIGHLIGHTED GAPS IN CONNECTIVITY BETWEEN SCHOOL SYSTEMS WITH MANY RURAL SCHOOLS HAVING LITTLE OR NO ACCESS.

KIMBERLY EVANS, A 17 YEAR EDUCATOR AND K-3 READING SPECIALIST EXPLAINED HOW THAT COULD NOW CHANGE.

>> THIS IS GOING TO BE HUGE FOR OUR BABIES, ESPECIALLY OUR BABIES IN RURAL ALABAMA.

WITH THE ONSET OF THE PANDEMIC, OUR STUDENTS HAVEN'T HAD THE RESOURCES NEEDED TO BE PROFICIENT IN ALL OF THE ACADEMIC AREAS.

THE AREA OF READING, IN PARTICULAR, HAS TAKEN A GREAT HIT.

NOW WE HAVE TO DO SO MUCH TO MAKE SURE OUR THIRD GRADERS ARE PROFICIENT.

SO, THIS INITIATIVE IS GOING TO BE HUGE, AND THE FACT THAT OUR STUDENTS WILL BE ABLE TO ACCESS INTERNET IN A FASTER AREA.

YOU KNOW, WITH THE PANDEMIC, OUR STUDENTS THAT WERE GIVEN THE TECHNOLOGY BOXES TO ACCESS THE INTERNET, BUT IT DIDN'T WORK AS WELL.

NOW, WITH THIS INITIATIVE, WE WILL HAVE HIGH-SPEED INTERNET.

IT WILL ALLOW THEM TO DO PRACTICE AREA THAT'S NEED TO WORK ON, ON THE COMPUTER AT HOME.

>> HEALTH CARE IS ANOTHER KEY AREA OF IMPACT FOR BROADBAND INTERNET.

ACCORDING TO CHRIS RUSH, PRESIDENT OF MARSHALL MEDICAL CENTER IN MARSHALL COUNTY, QUALITY OF CARE, ACCESS TO CARE AND GEOGRAPHY ARE THE MAIN HINDRANCES TO RURAL HEALTHCARE.

HE SAYS THIS BROADBAND EXPANSION INITIATIVE WILL MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.

>> THERE ARE MANY AVENUES OF HEALTHCARE DELIVERY THAT ARE ENABLED WITH EXPANDED ACCESS TO BROADBAND SERVICES.

WITH ADEQUATE BROADBAND, IT'S EASIER TO CONNECT TO PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIANS, WITH THEIR PATIENT, VIA TELEMEDICINE SOLUTION THAT WE HAVE ALL BECOME SOMEWHAT FAMILIAR.

A NEUROLOGIST OR CRITICAL CARE PHYSICIAN OR OTHER SPECIALISTS IN A TERTIARY CENTER CAN CONNECT WITH A PATIENT IN A RURAL HOSPITAL AND THEY CAN DO IT THROUGH REMOTE MONITORING IF THEY HAVE GOOD CONNECTIVITY.

AS RURAL HOSPITALS INTEGRATE MORE WITH LARGER SYSTEMS, MUCH LIKE WE ARE WITH THE HUNTSVILLE HOSPITAL HEALTH SYSTEM IN HUNTSVILLE, ELECTRONIC MEDICAL RECORDS ARE ALSO ABLE TO BE SHARED IN REALTIME AND TO FURTHER ADVANCE CONTINUITY OF CARE AND THE SPEED OF THAT CARE.

>> STATE EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE LEADERS GATHERED IN MOBILE THIS WEEK FOR A SPECIAL SUMMIT WITH OFFICIALS FROM INDIANA AND COLORADO TO EXPLORE WAYS TO BETTER EQUIP STUDENTS AND ADULTS TO LAND SUSTAINABLE CAREERS.

IT WAS HOSTED BY THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION, A NON-PROFIT PUBLIC POLICY ORGANIZATION BASED IN WASHINGTON.

ALABAMA IS A NATIONAL LEADER IN USING DATA TO DRIVE ITS WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT EFFORTS INCLUDING TO REMOVE BARRIERS FOR PEOPLE ENTERING THE LABOR FORCE.

>> I KNOW WE WERE ABLE TO OFFER THEM SOME TIPS ON THING WE HAVE DONE.

IT'S REALLY GREAT TO BE ABLE TO COLLABORATE WITH REALLY SMART PEOPLE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY DOING THE SAME WORK AND TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH THE SAME GOALS THAT YOU ARE.

WE CALL IT R&D, RIP OFF AND DUPLICATE.

WE LIKE TO TAKE THE IDEAS AND BRING THEM HOME AND DO BETTER WITH THEM.

>> I DID.

I THINK ONE REASON I BROUGHT ALABAMA INTO THIS PICTURE IS BECAUSE I THINK THAT THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, GOVERNOR IVEY, BUT ALSO NICK MORRIS' OFFICE AND OFFICE OF APPRENTICESHIP HERE, THE WAY THEY HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS AND THEIR ENGAGEMENT WITH EMPLOYERS, THEY ARE THINKING IN A SYSTEMS LEVEL WAY.

NOT JUST THIS FUNDING STREAM AND THAT FUNDING STREAM BUT USE OUR GOALS, OUR METRICS TO REALLY GUIDE OUR EFFORTS TO MOVE THE NEEDLE SO THESE THINGS WORK TOGETHER.

I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE MOST SOPHISTICATED SYSTEMS THINKING I HAVE SEEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

I'M INTERESTED IN HAVING OTHER STATES TO COME AND LEARN FROM THAT AND ALSO ENGAGE WITH THEM ON WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO HELP PUSH IT EVEN FURTHER.

>> I WAS ABLE TO ATTEND THE TWO-DAY EVENT AND SPEAK WITH MANY OF THE ATTENDEES.

WE'LL HAVE A MORE IN-DEPTH STORY FOR OUR NEXT SPOTLIGHT ON EDUCATION EPISODE, WHICH IS SCHEDULED FOR THURSDAY, OCTOBER 28 AT 8:00.

YOU WON'T WANT TO MISS THAT.

>>> A NEW REPORT SHOWS THAT MANY GRADUATES WITH ELEMENTARY EDUCATION DEGREES DON'T PASS THE TEACHER CERTIFICATION TEST THE FIRST TIME.

THAT'S ACCORDING TO THE ALABAMA COMMISSION ON THE EVALUATION OF SERVICES.

THE PASS RATES VARY BY DIFFERENT COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES, BUT AT MOST SCHOOLS, LESS THAN HALF OF THE GRADUATES PASS THE CERTIFICATION TEST THE FIRST TIME.

IN JULY, THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION VOTED TO TEMPORARILY LOWER THE REQUIRED PASSING SCORE ON THE PRAXIS EXAM IN A MEASURE TO ADDRESS THE ONGOING TEACHER SHORTAGE.

IN ITS REPORT, THE COMMISSION MADE THREE KEY RECOMMENDATIONS TO GOVERNOR IVEY AND THE LEGISLATURE: INCENTIVIZE COMPLETION OF TRADITIONAL BACHELOR'S DEGREE EDUCATOR PREPARATION PROGRAMS; ALIGN TEACHER PAY INCENTIVES WITH THE STATE'S DESIRED OUTCOMES; AND PUBLISH ALL EDUCATOR PREPARATION DATA ON THE STATE'S TEACHER RECRUITMENT SITE: WWW.WETEACHALABAMA.COM.

>>> TURNING TO THE ISSUE OF THE DEATH PENALTY IN ALABAMA.

RECENT TROUBLE WITH EXECUTIONS OF INMATES WITH DEATH SENTENCES HAS RENEWED DISCUSSION ON THE POLICY AND PRACTICE OF THE DEATH PENALTY.

FOR THE SECOND OF A TWO-PART SERIES ON THE ISSUE, RANDY SCOTT REPORTS.

>> HIS EXECUTION WAS DELAYED DUE TO A PAPERWORK ISSUE, GIVING RISE TO A NEW DEBATE ON CAPITAL PUNISHMENT.

>> ALABAMA AS ALL STATES HAVE PROBLEMS WITH LETHAL INJECTION DRUGS AND SOMETIMES REQUIRES THE PRISONER GET A CHOICE BETWEEN TWO VALID FORMS OF EXECUTION.

>> THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF DEATH PENALTY ACTION AND SAYS EXECUTIONS, SUCH AS MILLER'S HAS GONE ON LONG ENOUGH.

>> HE CHOSE GAS BUT THEY DON'T HAVE IT AND THEY WILL TRY TO LETHAL INJECT HIM AND THE COURT RULED HE MUST HAVE THE GAS CHAMBER.

THEY CAN'T USE LETHAL INJECTION BUT THE STATE IS APPEALING THE RULING.

>> CAPITAL PUNISHMENT IS RESERVED FOR THE MOST HEINOUS OFFENSES.

NOT EVERY MURDER IS A DEATH-ELIGIBLE CASE.

>> THE CAPITAL PUNISHMENT DEBATE IS HEATING UP AND BOTH SIDES ARE DRAWING LINES IN THE SAND.

ALABAMA ATTORNEY GENERAL STEVE MARSHALL SAYS EXECUTIONS ARE A LEGAL FORM OF CAPITAL PUNISHMENT IN THE STATE.

THOSE THAT OPPOSE EXECUTION SAY THE STATE NEEDS TO CHANGE THAT.

>> WE HAVE RESERVED THIS PARTICULAR PUNISHMENT, THE ULTIMATE PUNISHMENT FOR THE MOST EGREGIOUS OF CRIME, THOSE THAT KILL CHILDREN UNDER 12 OR TAKE THE LIFE OF SOMEONE WITH A PROTECTION ORDER, THOSE THAT WOULD KILL MULTIPLE INDIVIDUALS IN THE COURSE OF CONDUCT.

>> MEANWHILE THE DEBATE CONTINUES.

>> WE KNOW WE CAN BE SAFE FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE AWFUL THINGS AND HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE WITHOUT EXECUTIONS.

>> THOSE THAT WOULD COMMIT CERTAIN FELONIES, ALONG WITH THAT MURDER, IT'S THE PUBLIC POLICY OF ALABAMA AND ONE THAT WE SUPPORT IS TO MAKE SURE THE PUNISHMENT IS AVAILABLE FOR INJURIES TO CONSIDER.

>> FOR "CAPITOL JOURNAL," I'M RANDY SCOTT.

>>> SOME LATE BREAKING NEWS TONIGHT: THE ALABAMA SUPREME COURT HAS RULED THAT CASINOS IN MACON AND LOWNDES COUNTIES CONSTITUTE ILLEGAL GAMBLING ENTERPRISES AND MUST CEASE OPERATIONS.

WRITING FOR THE UNANIMOUS COURT, JUSTICE MIKE SHAW EXPLAINED IN A 54-PAGE RULING THAT THE SO-CALLED ELECTRONIC BINGO MACHINES IN USE AT THE CASINOS ARE ACTUALLY ILLEGAL SLOT MACHINES UNDER ALABAMA LAW.

ATTORNEY GENERAL STEVE MARSHALL, WHO HAS BATTLED THE CASINOS IN THE COURTS FOR FIVE YEARS, TOUTED THE VICTORY AND SAID IT WILL RESULT IN VICTORYLAND, WHITE HALL AND SOUTHERN STAR CASINOS CEASING THEIR OPERATIONS.

REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE CASINOS HAVE NOT YET MADE A PUBLIC COMMENT.

>>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH TONIGHT'S GUESTS.

>> "CAPITOL JOURNAL" EPISODES ARE AVAILABLE ON THE FREE MOBILE APP.

YOU CAN CONNECT WITH "CAPITOL JOURNAL" LINK TO PAST EPISODES ON "CAPITOL JOURNAL'S" FACEBOOK PAGE AND YOU CAN LISTEN TO PAST EPISODES OF "CAPITOL JOURNAL" WHEN YOU ARE DRIVING OR ON THE GO WITH "CAPITOL JOURNAL" PODCASTS.

>> NEXT, I'M JOINED BY NANCY BUCKNER, COMMISSIONER OF THE ALABAMA DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN RESOURCES.

THANK YOU FOR COMING ON "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> WHEN PEOPLE HEAR DHR, THEY MAY CONJURE UP A NUMBER OF IDEAS ON WHAT YOUR AGENCY DOES.

I KNOW IT IS A LARGE AGENCY WITH MANY MISSIONS.

CAN YOU GIVE US AN OVERVIEW OF WHAT YOUR AGENCY DOES FOR THE STATE AND YOUR ROLE AS COMMISSIONER?

>> SURE.

>> WE RUN SEVERAL FEDERALLY FUNDED PROGRAMS, KNOWN AS SNAP, FOOD ASSISTANCE AND THE TANEC PROGRAM, KNOWN YEARS AGO AS WELFARE CHECKS AND A LARGE CHILD SUPPORT PROGRAM.

WE RUN A CHILD CARE PROGRAM WE DO CHILD CARE SUBSIDIES FOR THE WORKING POOR AND LICENSING OF ALL CHILD CARE ENTITIES IN THE STATE.

AND THEN WE ALSO DO AN ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES PROGRAM WHERE WE TAKE CARE OF THE ELDERLY AND A CHILD WELFARE PROGRAM THAT WE RUN.

SO.

>> I SAW YOUR PRESENTATION TO THE BUDGET HEARING THE OTHER DAY.

I GOT A LOT OF ATTENTION BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU WERE SHARING WITH THE LEGISLATURE ABOUT RECRUITING AND TRAINING CHILD WELFARE OFFICE, IN YOUR CHILD WELFARE OFFICE.

I THINK I HEARD YOU'VE SAY 54% TURNOVER RATE AMONG THE STAFF, THE CHILD WELFARE STAFF.

DO I HAVE THAT RIGHT?

>> THAT'S WHAT IT IS, THUS FAR, THIS YEAR.

FOR FISCAL '21 IT WAS 46% AND THIS YEAR 54% SO FAR.

>> THAT'S A DRAMATIC NUMBER.

WHAT'S CONTRIBUTING TO THAT TURNOVER RATE?

>> I THINK THERE ARE SEVERAL FACTORS.

FIRST OF ALL, THE PANDEMIC DID SOMETHING WITH THE WORKFORCE PERIOD IN ALL JOBS.

CHILD WELFARE IN PARTICULAR HAS TAKEN A BIG HIT ACROSS THE NATION ACTUALLY.

BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT A CHILD WELFARE WORKER HAS TO DO IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE.

MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ENCOUNTER EVERY DAY BECAUSE MOST OF WHAT WE DO IS PERIOD OF TIME.

BUT THEY GO OUT AND WORK REPORTS THAT HAVE BEEN CALLED IN TO US.

SOMETIMES IT IS LAW ENFORCEMENT.

SOMETIMES IT IS A COOL TEACHER.

SOMETIMES IT'S A PEDIATRICIAN, VARIOUS OTHER PROFESSIONS ARE CALLING IN REPORTS, SOMETIMES A FAMILY MEMBER BUT WE ARE SEEING FAMILIES AT THEIR WORST TIMES.

MOST OF OUR CHILD WELFARE WORKERS ARE FEMALE, MANY ARE YOUNG, IDEALISTIC.

THEY JUST WANT TO HELP PEOPLE.

THEY ARE GOING INTO SITUATIONS WHERE THEY MAY BE MAKING DRUGS, SELLING DRUGS, SELLING GUNS, THEY MAY HAVE TO SEE A BABY THAT MAY BE DECEASED.

IT IS VERY, VERY DIFFICULT AND VERY, VERY TRAUMATIC.

OVER THE PAST YEAR OR TWO, WE HAVE HAD SOCIAL WORKERS AND CHILD WELFARE WORKERS THAT WERE STABBED.

THEY HAVE BEEN SHOT AT.

THEY HAVE BEEN BIT.

HAD TO GO TO THE ER FOR THAT.

THEY HAVE BEEN -- LET ALONE THE WAY THEY ARE TALKED TO SOMETIMES.

THEY ARE BIT BY HUMANS AND DOGS.

A LOT OF DOGS BECAUSE WHEN YOU GO ON A PORCH AND KNOCK ON A STRANGE DOOR, YOU DON'T REALIZE THERE IS A DOG CHAINED TO THE DOOR BUT HE IS UNDER THE PORCH RIGHT NOW.

EVEN HAVE ONE THAT WAS RUN OVER BY A CAR.

NOT BY ACCIDENT.

IT WAS DELIBERATE.

IT IS A TOUGH JOB AND WHEN THAT GETS OUT THERE, IT'S NOT -- WE'RE NOT ALWAYS THE EMPLOYER OF CHOICE.

YOU HAVE REALLY GOT TO LOVE IT AND BE DEDICATED TO WHAT YOU DO.

IN ADDITION TO ALL OF THAT, SOCIAL MEDIA HAS PLAYED A BIG ROLE.

OUR WORKER WITHS HAVE GOTTEN THREATS BECAUSE OF THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN PUT ON SOCIAL MEDIA SOMETIMES AND WE CAN'T RESPOND TO THAT BECAUSE WHAT WE DO IS CONFIDENTIAL.

WE CAN'T DEFEND IT.

YOU JUST HAVE TO WATCH IT.

FOR YOUNG WORKERS, THAT ARE REALLY TRYING TO DO GOOD THINGS TO HELP FAMILIES AND CHILDREN IT IS HEART BREAKING FOR THEM.

IT IS NOT KIND OF, IT REALLY IS HEART BREAKING FOR THEM AND SCARY TO THEIR HUSBANDS AND THEIR WIVES AND THEIR PARENTS AND THEIR GRANDPARENTS ABOUT THE KIND OF WORK THEY ARE DOING.

I HAD A FATHER CALL ME RECENTLY.

HE WAS VERY UPSET BECAUSE HIS DAUGHTER HAD A GUN PULLED ON HER.

SHE WAS OUT INVESTIGATING A CASE.

THAT HAPPENED.

SO LIKE I SAID YOU HAVE ALL OF THOSE DANGEROUS THINGS GOING ON AND THEN SOCIAL MEDIA AND IT IS NOT ALWAYS ACCURATE.

THEY MAY GET THREATS ON THEMSELVES OR OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS BECAUSE OF THEIR WORK.

AND THEN YOU HAVE LAWSUITS.

YOU KNOW, THEY CAN GET SUED FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE OR NOT DONE.

WHEN YOU MIX IT ALL TOGETHER -- LIKE I SAY, YOU REALLY HAVE TO LOVE IT TO CONTINUE TO DO IT.

>> A CHALLENGING JOB FOR SURE.

THANK YOU FOR SHARING ALL OF THAT.

I DON'T THINK WE MAYBE APPRECIATE THE ROLE THEY PLAY ENOUGH SOMETIMES.

I DID HEAR SOME OF THE BUDGET LEADERS TALK ABOUT TARGETED PAY INCREASES, SALARY INCREASES FOR THOSE TYPE OF WORKERS.

DO YOU SEE THAT ON THE HORIZON FOR THE NEXT LEGISLATIVE SECTION?

>> IF THEY ARE WILLING TO DO THAT, I'M CERTAINLY WILLING TO HELP DO THAT.

IT WOULD BE A WONDERFUL THING TO DO FOR OUR STAFF.

WILL THAT SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS?

PROBABLY NOT BUT IT WOULD GO A WAYS TO SOLVING THEM.

>> WELL, WE RECENTLY REPORTED ON SOME OF THE STRUGGLES THAT SOCIAL WORK GRADUATES WERE HAVING TROUBLE PASSING THE SOCIAL WORK LICENSING EXAM.

IT WAS A GAP BETWEEN GRADUATING COLLEGE WITH THAT SOCIAL WORK DEGREE AND THEN PASSING THE LICENSING EXAM FROM THE STATE.

FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHAT NEEDS TO CHANGE THERE?

IS IT A SITUATION WHERE THE COLLEGE COURSES MAYBE DON'T MATCH THE LICENSING EXAM OR VICE-VERSA?

DOES THE LICENSING EXAM NEED TO MATCH UP WITH THE COLLEGE COURSES?

DO YOU HAVE A PERSPECTIVE ON THAT?

>> I REALLY DON'T, TODD, BUT I HOPE THAT THE SOCIAL WORK LICENSING BOARD AND SCHOOLS WILL GET TOGETHER TO GET THAT RESOLVED.

WHAT WE TRY TO DO IS IF SOMEBODY CAN'T PASS IT WITHIN THAT REQUIRED TIME FRAME, THAN WE SUGGEST THEY GET ON A CASEWORKER REGISTER BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT INVESTED WITH TRAINING THAT WE HAVE DONE AND WE'D LIKE TO KEEP THEM UNTIL THEY CAN RESOLVE IT AND PASS THAT TEST.

THAT IS GENERALLY WHAT WE DO.

BUT I DO THINK THOSE TWO ENTITIES, THE SCHOOLS AND THE LICENSING BOARD, NEED TO GET TOGETHER AND COME TO A RESOLVE ON IT BECAUSE WE NEED SOCIAL WORKERS SO BADLY.

I KNOW THE DEPARTMENT OF MENTAL HEALTH NEEDS THEM TOO VERY BADLY.

I HOPE THAT GETS WORKED OUT REAL SOON.

>> YOUR AGENCY ALSO WORKS WITH ADOPTIONS AND FOSTER CARE.

WE SAW LEGISLATION COME UP THIS LAST SESSION DEALING WITH ADOPTIONS, MAYBE TRYING TO STREAMLINE THE PROCESS A LITTLE BIT.

FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, DOES THE LEGISLATURE NEED TO CHANGE LAWS AS IT RELATES TO ADOPTION OR FOSTER CARE?

WHAT DO PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THAT PROCESS?

>> I THINK WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ADOPTION, STAND-ALONE BY ITSELF, I DON'T SEE THAT IT NEEDS TO BE DONE TOO MUCH, MAYBE A FEW THINGS TO BE TWEAKED BUT PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING ADOPTION CAN THINK IT TAKES A LONG TIME BUT IT IS THE TERMINATION OF PARENTAL RIGHTS THAT TAKES A LONG TIME.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, WHENEVER YOU TAKE SOMEONE'S CHILD AWAY FROM THEM FOREVER, IT IS NOT A QUICK PROCESS BUT IT SHOULD BE IF YOU HAVE ABANDONED THE CHILD AND DONE THINGS LIKE THAT, WHICH THE LAW DOES ALLOW FOR THAT AND THERE MAYBE A FEW THINGS THAT COULD BE PUT IN THAT PORTION OF THE LAW THAT COULD SPEED UP SOME THINGS AND THERE HAVE BEEN THINGS THE LEGISLATURE HAS DONE OVER THE YEARS TO EXPEDITE THAT PROCESS SOME.

BUT I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU SHOULDN'T DO QUICKLY.

YOU SHOULD DO VERY DELIBERATELY AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE DOING IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD WHILE PROTECTING THE PARENTS' INTEREST AND GIVING THEM A CHANCE TO CORRECT WHAT IS WRONG IN THEIR LIFE.

WE DO A LOT OF ADOPTIONS IN THIS STATE BUT ALSO RETURN A LOT OF CHILDREN.

I'M HAPPY TO SAY LAST YEAR IT WAS 73% OF OUR CHILDREN WENT TO A RELATIVE, WHICH COULD BE A PARENT, A GRANDPARENT.

THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD PERCENTAGE NUMBER WHILE STILL MAINTAINING THOSE ADOPTIONS.

>> FROM FOSTER CARE THEY WENT BACK TO FAMILY MEMBER.

>> A RELATIVE.

>> WOW.

OKAY.

>> AND THAT TAKES A LOT OF WORK TO DO THAT, TOO BUT I'M VERY PROUD OF IT.

THE FAMILIES STEPPED UP AND DID WHAT THEY NEEDED TO DO AND WE PUT RESOURCES IN FOR THEM AND SO THEY GOT TO BE BACK WITH THEIR FAMILY.

WHEN ALL OF THAT FAILED, WE NEED TO FIND A HOME FOR THE CHILDREN.

THE STATE WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE A PARENT FOR THE LONG TERM.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK ME ABOUT -- ONE OF THE THINGS WE LEARNED THROUGH THE PANDEMIC WAS THE IMPORTANCE OF CHILD CARE.

SOMETIMES THE BERTH OF CHILD CARE.

YOUR AGENCY PLAYS A ROLE IN A LICENSING, SAFETY REGULATIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT FOR CHILD CARE FACILITIES.

HOW MUCH MORE IMPORTANT DID IT BECOME, IN LIGHT OF THE PANDEMIC, TO MAKE SURE THAT SO MANY PEOPLE SEEKING CHILD CARE, THAT THE STATE WAS PROPERLY REGULATING AND ENFORCING THOSE RULES?

>> I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT.

BUT TO ME, THE BIGGEST THING THAT CAME OUT OF THE PANDEMICKIC REGARDING CHILD CARE IS THAT THE BOSSES, THE ENTITIES, THE COMPANIES, THE CORPORATIONS REALIZED THAT YOU CANNOT TALK ABOUT WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT WITHOUT INCLUDING CHILD CARE.

>> RIGHT.

>> I THINK THAT WAS, TO ME, THE BIGGEST THING THAT CAME OUT OF IT WAS THAT.

AND HOW IMPORTANT IT IS AND THAT PEOPLE CAN'T GET TO WORK IF THEY DON'T HAVE CHILD CARE.

IT'S GOT TO AT THE TOP OF THE LIST WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT.

>> HAVE WE SEEN GREATER DEMAND FOR CHILD CARE?

ARE MORE FACILITIES OPENING?

DOES THAT PUT MORE PRESSURE ON YOUR STAFF TO DO THE LICENSING, DO THE INSPECTIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT?

>> IT PUTS A LITTLE MORE PRESSURE ON THEM THAN THE OTHER, BUT I DON'T HAVE THE TURNOVER RATE THERE THAT I DO ON THE CHILD WELFARE SIDE OF IT.

SO, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE NOBODY IS WAITING ON US TO OPEN.

THERE'S A PROCESS AND IT TAKES A LITTLE WHILE BUT WE DON'T WANT THAT TO DRAG OUT BECAUSE WE KNOW HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO THE EMPLOYERS OUT THERE, BUT ALSO THE MOM AND DAD TRYING TO GET TO WORK AND NEEDS A PLACE THEY CAN REST ASSURED THEIR CHILD WILL BE TAKEN CARE OF.

>> WELL, YOU ARE SO RIGHT.

I'LL ADMIT, I WASN'T AS AWARE AS I AM NOW ABOUT JUST HOW IMPORTANT IT IS.

IT'S ESSENTIAL.

IT IS VITAL WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT IT.

THANK YOU FOR COMING ON AND UPDATING OUR AUDIENCE ON WHAT YOU ARE DOING AT DHR.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> YOU ARE WATCHING ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

♪ NEXT, I'M JOINED BY BARRY MATSON OF THE ALABAMA DISTRICT ATTORNEY ASSOCIATION.

THANK YOU FOR COMING ON THE SHOW.

>> APPRECIATE BEING HERE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> I WANTED TO HAVE YOU ON.

YOU PRESENTED BEFORE THE LEGISLATIVE BUDGET HEARING, THESE INFORMAL BUDGET HEARINGS -- YOU MAYBE THE LAST ONE TO HAVE PRESENT?

>> I THINK SO.

>> ABOUT THE FUNDING SITUATION FACING PROSECUTORS IN THE STATE.

THE LEGISLATURE DOESN'T CONTROL THE MONEY, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE LEARNED FROM YOUR PRESENTATION.

I WONDER IF YOU COULD TALK ABOUT HOW D.A.

OFFICES ARE FUNDED AND THE CHALLENGES THERE?

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY.

IT WAS GREAT TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY BEFORE THE JOINT COMMITTEE THE OTHER DAY, TOO.

WE HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO HAVE TRANSPARENCY AND OPENNESS WITH THEM AND WE DID APPRECIATE IT AS AN ASSOCIATION.

THE D.A.

'S FUNDED IN ALABAMA UNLIKE ANY OTHER D.A.

ASSOCIATION -- NOT D.A.

ASSOCIATION BUT PROSECUTORS.

THERE.

>> Reporter: 42 IN ALABAMA AND OUR BUDGET FOR 2023 IS $100 BILLION.

THAT'S OUR PROPOSED BUDGET.

BUT WE WILL START OCTOBER 1st WITH A $74 MILLION BUDGET DEFICIT TO BEGIN THE YEAR.

WE GET ROUGHLY 36% OF OUR FUNDING FROM THE STATE GENERAL FUND.

THE BILL WILL MAKE UP THE REST.

THIS CURRENT LEGISLATURE HAS BEEN VERY HELPFUL TRYING TO GET THE NUMBERS BETTER AND THE GOVERNOR.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE THE EFFORT HER OFFICE HAS DONE.

IT'S SUCH A HUGE GAP.

THERE'S A NEAR $60 MILLION GAP THEY CAN'T MAKE UP ANYTIME SOON.

HOW DO WE FUND OVER 70% OF OUR BUDGET?

WE DO IT THROUGH WHAT I CALL GIMMICKS.

IN THE PAST, LEGISLATURE, MAYBE IN THE LATE '80s, EARLY '90s THE LEGISLATURE PASSED THE WORTHLESS CHECK FUND.

BUSINESSES WERE GOING UNDER BECAUSE OF WORTHLESS CHECKS.

THEY CREATED OPERATION LIAISON AND WE WENT TO COLLECT THE WORTHLESS CHECKS AND THERE WAS A FEE AND FUNDED MUCH OF THE D.A.

'S OPERATION.

WE WERE OUT OF SIGHT AND OUT OF MIND FOR THE FUNDING PROCESS FOR YEARS AND THOSE WERE DECISIONS MADE BY PEOPLE NO LONGER HERE.

ONCE DEBIT CARDS CAME IN, NO MORE CHECKS.

THE GAP HAS BEEN FILLED OVER THE YEARS WITH COURT COSTS, BAIL FEES, SOLICITOR FEE FUNDS, LOCAL LEGISLATION, JAIL FEES OR GRANTS, FEDERAL GRANTS.

WE RELY ON THOSE.

NONE OF THOSE ARE SUSTAINABLE.

THEY NEVER MEET THEIR MARK.

SO THAT PROPOSED BUDGET OF $114 MILLION WILL FALL WAY SHORT NEXT YEAR.

BECAUSE WE WON'T RAISE ALL OF THAT MONEY DURING THE COURSE OF THE YEAR.

THE D.A.

'S ARE FORCED EVERY MONTH AND EVERY QUARTER TO DEPOSIT MONEY THEY RAISE LOCALLY INTO A STATE ACCOUNT AND IT IS COMMINGLED WITH THE 30% FUNDING FROM THE STATE GENERAL FUND TO MAKE PAYROLL.

EVERY EXPENSE IN THEIR OFFICE -- THE GENERAL FUND MONEY ONLY PAYS FOR SALARIES, BUT THE D.A.S ARE FORCED, EVERY PENCIL, PIECE OF PAPER, TANK OF GAS, EVERYTHING THEY HAVE TO FUND, THEY HAVE TO FUND IT THROUGH LOCAL EFFORTS.

>> YOU COULD SEE HOW THAT SETS UP POTENTIALLY BAD INCENTIVES, OR AT LEAST SETS UP THE APPEARANCE OF SUCH.

I GUESS MY QUESTION IS -- LOOK, JUST ABOUT EVERY AGENCY WANTS MORE MONEY, RIGHT?

ACROSS THE BOARD, EVEN IN GOOD BUDGET TIMES, BUT SHOULD THE STATE CHANGE THAT MODEL TO BETTER FUND PROSECUTORS SO THERE AREN'T THOUGHTS OF THOSE INCERTAINTIVES?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

WE DO NOT -- THIS IS ANOTHER AN IDEAL SITUATION.

THIS IS NOT ONE THE D.A.s ARE HAPPY ABOUT AND NOBODY LIKES THOSE FEES.

THEY ARE CONSTANTLY UNDER ATTACK.

THERE ARE BILLS IN THE LEGISLATURE THOUGH DIAL THOSE BACK.

THERE ARE EFFORTS AND LAWSUITS, BUT WE'RE NOT THE ONLY AGENCY FUNDED THAT WAY.

YOU KNOW, ALEA, THE CIRCUIT CLERKS ARE FUNDED THROUGH THE SAME FEES AND FUNDS.

IT'S ACROSS THE BOARD.

WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT REPEALING THOSE FEES, IT REALLY HAS AN IMPACT ON SERVICES FOR VICTIMS OF CRIME AND OUR ABILITY TO PROSECUTE CASES.

>> WELL, I APPRECIATE YOU INFORMING US ABOUT THAT FUNDING SITUATION BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE AWARE.

MARY SELL REPORTED ON THE CLASS D FELONY SITUATION.

THIS IS THE CLASS OF FELONY CREATED IN THE REFORM LAW IN 2015.

SOME OF YOUR PROSECUTORS ARE SAYING IT'S A PROBLEM BECAUSE IT DOESN'T ALLOW THEM TO KEEP DRUGS AND DRUG TRAFFICKERS OFF THE STREET.

WALK ME THROUGH SOME OF YOUR PROBLEMS WITH THE CLASS D AS IT EXISTS NOW.

>> I THINK THERE ARE SEVERAL THINGS DURING THAT LEGISLATION IN 2015 THAT WERE EXPERIMENTS TO SEE WHAT WOULD WORK TO REDUCE PRISON POPULATION.

WHAT WAS FAILED TO BE REALIZED AT THE TIME AND WE CERTAINLY KNOW IT NOW, 83 TO 84% OF OUR PRISON POPULATION IN ALABAMA, IN INCARCERATED IN DOC, IN A PRISON IS VIOLENT, ROBBERY AND MURDERS AND THOSE THAT AREN'T VIOLENT ARE THERE FOR A DIP OR DUNK OR REVOCATION OR DRUG TREATMENT.

THAT SMALL PERCENT IS IN AND OUT FOR TREATMENT OR SOME PURPOSE LIKE THAT BUT THE STATIC POPULATION OF 83 TO 84% ARE VIOLENT.

SO, THIS NARRATIVE WAS OUT THERE THAT WE WERE FILLING OUR PRISONS WITH LOW-LEVEL BAD CHECK WRITERS AND PEOPLE POSSESSING MARIJUANA AND WE'RE NOT.

THEY ARE NOT IN PRISON.

WE'RE NOT SENDING THOSE -- WE REALLY WEREN'T THEN AND CERTAINLY AREN'T NOW.

AND SO WHAT HAPPENED, THEY CREATED A D FELONY.

WE ALWAYS HAD A, B AND C. AND THE D FELONY INCORPORATED POSSESSION OF SOME DRUGS, USING A FORGED PRESCRIPTION, I MEAN USING A FORGED CHECK OR A CREDIT CARD, STEALING SOMEONE'S CREDIT CARD OR THEFT UP TO $1,400.

THOSE ARE THE OFFENSES THAT A LOT OF FOLKS THAT HAVE ADDICTION OR OTHER ISSUES THAT NEED HELP ARE COMMITTING.

IT BECOMES -- AN ADDICTION IS SO BAD, YOU ARE ON HEROIN, OR METHAMPHETAMINE.

AND BREAKING INTO A HOUSE, BURGLARIZING A HOUSE, STEALING SOMEBODY'S PROPERTY IS A RATIONAL DECISION TO GET MONEY FOR DRUGS.

IF YOU ARE AT THAT POINT AND YOU DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES AND SUPPORT OR A FOUNDATION UNDER YOU, YOU ARE GOING TO DIE.

IF IT IS FENTANYL, IT WILL BE SOONER THAN LATER.

IF IT IS METHAMPHETAMINE, IT WILL BE A SLOW DEATH.

WHAT HAPPENS IS OVER THE YEARS, FAMILIES TEND TO ENABLE BEHAVIOR.

THEY GET TO A POINT WHERE, OKAY, NO MORE AND THEN TRY TO HOLD FAST AND MAKE THE PERSON GET HELP BUT USUALLY IT IS TOO LATE.

THE STATE WAS ALWAYS THERE TO STAND WITH THEM AND SAY, LOOK, THERE'S A LINE.

THERE ARE BOUNDARIES FOR BEHAVIOR IN OUR STATE.

AND YOU CAN'T COMMIT THESE CRIMES.

IF YOU ARE, THERE'S A CONSEQUENCE.

THAT'S WHAT MAKES DRUG COURT AND VETERANS COURT WORK, MENTAL HEALTH COURT IS THERE IS YOU HAVE COMMITTED A CRIME.

BECAUSE YOU COMMITTED A CRIME THERE'S A POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCE TO GO TO JAIL.

WE DON'T WANT TO SEND THAT PERSON POSSESSING COCAINE OR METHAMPHETAMINE TO JAIL BUT THE THREAT IS A REMARKABLE INCENTIVE TO REMAIN IN TREATMENT.

BECAUSE THE ONLY THING AN ADDICT WANTS AS MUCH AS THE DRUG IS THE LIBERTY TO FIND THE DRUG.

IF WE THREATEN THAT LIBERTY -- AND THE THREAT IS TYPICALLY ENOUGH.

THAT'S THE PRINCIPLE BEHIND ALL SPECIALTY COURTS IS YOU WILL DO THIS.

WE KNOW THEY ARE GOING TO FAIL.

THEY ARE GOING TO DRUG TEST POSITIVE.

THEY ARE GOING TO COMMIT NEW OFFENSES AND WE WANT TO WORK WITH THEM AND THEM THROUGH IT BUT IF ALL WE ARE DOING -- THIS IS WHAT THE D FELONY DOES.

IF I STEAL $1,400 FROM YOU RIGHT NOW, THE JUDGE IN MONTGOMERY CANNOT SEND ME TO JAIL.

NOT WON'T BUT CAN'T LEGALLY.

BUT IF I STEAL $500 FROM YOU I CAN GO TO MUNICIPAL COURT AND GO TO JAIL FOR A YEAR.

WE HAVE CREATED A CHASM OF FELONIES AND THOUSANDS ARE HAPPENING AND SINCE THERE IS NO CONSEQUENCES, THE VICTIMS QUIT REPORTING AND LAW ENFORCEMENT QUITS WORKING THE CASES AND THE PEOPLE GO BACK TO THE STREET TO DIE.

WE HAVE THE RESOURCES AND THESE PROGRAMS, BUT THEY ARE FALLING WAY SHORT BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE TEETH WE NEED.

I THINK THE D FELONY NEEDS TO GO AND THERE ARE OTHER GUIDELINES, LIKE BURGLARY THIRD NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT AS WELL.

>> SPEAKING OF PENALTIES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, WE ARE SEEING TALK OF LEGISLATION FOR INCREASING PENALTIES FOR FENTANYL TRAFFICKING.

WE HAVE SEEN THIS ISSUE EXPLODE ACROSS THE STATE.

MY QUESTION IS, THINKING OF THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ISSUE, THEY MAY SAY WHAT GOOD ARE INCREASED PENALTIES IF YOU ARE NOT PROVIDING TREATMENT?

MY QUESTION IS HOW DO WE BALANCE NEED FOR TRUE TRAFFICKERS, THOSE WHO ARE TRAFFICKING THIS DRUG TO BE LOCKED UP, TO BE TAKEN OFF THE STREETS AND THE NEED FOR THOSE WHO ARE ADDICTED TO GET THE TREATMENT THEY NEED AND NOT ROT IN PRISON?

>> THE GOAL IS TO GET CRIMINAL ENTERPRISES OFF THE STREET.

GET THE TRAFFICKERS, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE PROFITING, THAT ARE MOVING LARGE QUANTITIES AND DISRUPT THAT PRACTICE.

THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.

WE HAVE A TRAFFICKING STATUTE FOR HEROIN, COCAINE, AND WE HAVE ONE FOR FENTANYL THAT WE PASSED A FEW YEARS AGO.

BUT AT THE TIME, THERE WERE ONLY A FEW OF US THAT SAW THE TSUNAMI OF FENTANYL COMING.

SO THERE WAS RESISTANCE TO HAVE THEM STANDARD JAIL TIME ATTACHED TO FENTANYL TRAFFICKING THAT IS ATTACHED TO EVERY OTHER TRAFFICKER OF DRUGS.

SO, WE HAVE A TRAFFICKING STATUTE BUT NO COMPARABLE JAIL TIME TO SAY COCAINE OR METHAMPHETAMINE.

SO WE HOPE -- THERE IS A BILL THE NEXT SESSION THAT WE SUPPORT AND WOULD ADD THAT TO IT.

FENTANYL IS A UNIQUE SITUATION.

I BELIEVE IT IS A WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

THREE GRAINS OF SALT OF FENTANYL WOULD KILL YOU AND I INSTANTLY HERE IF WE INHALED IT.

WE WOULD OVERDOSE.

IF YOU HAD MUCH MORE THAN THAT, YOU CAN KILL A ROOM FULL OF PEOPLE.

YOU CAN KILL A STADIUM FULL OF PEOPLE IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH AND IT DOESN'T TAKE A LOT.

IT IS AN ACUTE PROBLEM RIGHT NOW.

IT GOES THROUGH EVERY DEMOGRAPHIC AND COMMUNITY.

IT'S BEING SOLD ONLINE, SOLD BY DEALERS AND TRAFFICKERS OF THEN STREET.

IF WE DON'T GET A HANDLE ON IT WE WILL LOSE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS MORE PEOPLE.

>> I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT THIS ORDER THAT WE SAW THIS WEEK FROM JUDGE HARDWICK HERE IN MONTGOMERY.

IT ONLY APPLIES LOCALLY, NOT LIKE A STATE-WIDE ORDER BUT IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE IT ESSENTIALLY ENDS REQUIREMENT FOR PAYING OUT BOND FOR SEVERAL NON-VIOLENT CRIMES.

IT'S LOCAL BUT SOME ARE SAYING IT COULD BE A BLUEPRINT FOR THE LARGER BOND REFORM MOVEMENT.

ADVOCATES FOR THIS SAY IT IS ONLY A DIFFERENCE OF MONEY.

IF YOU GET LOCKED UP FOR THESE NON-VIOLENT CRIMES RIGHT NOW, IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY YOU GET OUT AND IF YOU DON'T YOU STAY IN.

WHAT'S THE RESPONSE TO THAT?

>> IT GOES TO ACCOUNTABLE AND MAKING SURING THE PERSON COMES TO COURT AND THAT'S THEY PROCESS INVOLVED HERE.

I THINK THIS ORDER, LIKE WE FACED WITH THE D FELONY AND A LOT OF THE REFORM THAT DOESN'T HIT ITS MARK, YOU HAVE THIS BILLION DOLLAR, THIS IS ARNOLD FOUNDATION, BILLION DOLLAR VENTURES THAT FUNDS AN EFFORT AND THEY GO BACK TO THEIR GATED COMMUNITY AND LIVE WHEREVER THEY LIVE, NEW YORK OR CALIFORNIA AND WE ARE LEFT TO DEAL WITH THESE.

THEY PROMOTED THIS ORDER THAT WOULD ALLOW SIGNATURE BOND FOR CERTAIN OFFENSES.

IF YOU LOOK AT IT, IT APPLIES TO NONVIOLENT PROPERTY OFFENSE AND EXCLUDES NASTY VIOLENT OFFENSES BUT IT HAS SO MANY HOLES IN IT.

CRUELTY TO ANIMALS, DISSEMINATION OF CHILD PORNOGRAPHY, ETHICS VIOLATIONS.

IF YOU HAVE A PUBLIC OFFICIAL, THEY ARE NOT ENUMERATED.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF ISSUES WITH THIS.

WHERE THEY HAVE DONE THIS, PARTICULARLY IN MUNICIPAL IS WHERE SOME OF THE ORGANIZATIONS LIKE ARNOLD AND OTHER ACLU, SOME OF THE GROUPS THAT FILED LAWSUITS IN CITIES HAVE GONE AWAY FROM BAIL.

WHAT YOU HAVE IS FOLKS GO IN A BUSINESS AND STEAL PROPERTY FROM A BUSINESS OWNER.

THEY GET ARRESTED, SIGN A TICKET OR SIGN BASICALLY A RELEASE WITH THE POLICE BECAUSE THERE IS NO DISCRETION.

YOU DON'T GO TO THE JUDGE WITH THE ORDER BUT GO STRAIGHT TO THE POLICE AND THEY SAY SIGN THIS AND YOU ARE FREE TO GO AND THEY ARE BACK IN THE STORE WITHIN 15 MINUTES.

HAVING GROWN UP IN A SMALL BUSINESS FAMILY, I KNOW HOW CRUSHING THAT IS IF YOU ARE A BUSINESS OWNER AND THOSE PEOPLE COMING BACK IN YOUR BUSINESS BUT THEY DON'T COME TO COURT EITHER.

WE HAVE SEEN NUMBERS GO UP EXPONENTIALLY WHERE THERE IS NOTHING THAT SAYS YOU HAVE TO COME.

IF YOUR UNCLE, COUSIN OR GET A BONDSMAN AND YOU SIGN I WILL COME TO COURT AND YOU DON'T PUT THE WHOLE AMOUNT BUT A PERCENTAGE UP.

THE BONDSMAN OR THE UNCLE OR COUSIN IS GUARANTEEING THAT JUNIOR IS GOING TO COME BACK TO COURT.

IF IT IS JUST A SIGNATURE, THEN -- I COULD JUST NEVER GO BACK TO COURT AND MAYBE THEY WILL RUN ACROSS AND FIND ME.

IF THEY DO, THEN I'M JUST HELD FOR COURT FOR THE DISPOSITION OF MY CASE.

WE ALREADY KNOW ABOUT THE D FELONY.

WE CREATED A SYSTEM WHERE I DON'T HAVE TO MAKE BOND.

I STAY OUT OF JAIL.

I STEAL PROPERTY, POSSESS DRUGS, AND THEN WHEN I DO COME TO COURT, THEN THE COURT HAS TO RELEASE ME BY STATUTE.

WE HAVE THIS CHASM IN THE LAW WHERE THERE'S NO ACCOUNTABILITY, NO BOUNDARIES AND NO REPERCUSSIONS FOR REALLY BAD BEHAVIOR.

SO, WE JUST HOPE WE WILL BE ABLE TO GET THE ORDER AMENDED SO WE CAN INCLUDE A LOT OF VIOLENT OFFENSES LEFT OUT OF THE ORIGINAL ORDER.

>> WE ARE COMING UP ON AN ELECTION.

THERE IS A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT DEALING WITH BOND ISSUES AND FOR VIOLENT MURDERS.

ANAYA'S LAW IS WHAT IT IS CALLED.

WE HAVE ONLY A LITTLE BIT OF TIME LEFT AND CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THEY APPROVE THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT?

>> IT ALLOWS THE COURTS TO SET HIGHER BOND IN CERTAIN OFFENSES.

THAT HADN'T BEEN IN PLACE, THE POTENTIAL PERPETRATOR FOR THAT CASE -- I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILED FACTS OF THAT CASE BUT WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO'S COMMITTED A VIOLENT OFFENSE, THEY CAN BE HELD.

PARTICULARLY IF YOU MEET A CERTAIN BURDEN OF PROOF IT CAN SHOW THIS PERSON NEEDS TO BE HELD.

WE'RE HOPING THE PUBLIC SEES THIS AND UNDERSTANDS THE NEED FOR THIS BECAUSE THE INCREASE IN VIOLENT CRIME, PARTICULARLY IN LARGER CITIES AND ACROSS THE STATE IS SHOCKING.

WE'RE SEEING IT ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

ALABAMA TYPICALLY IS A LITTLE BIT BEHIND THE CURVE WHEN YOU SEE A SPIKE IN A DRUG USE IN LARGER WILL CITIES.

IT'S GOING TO GET HERE WITHIN SIX MONTHS OR THE YEAR.

WHEN YOU SEE A SPIKE IN VIOLENT CRIME, IT WORKS ITS WAY HERE THE SAME.

WE'RE SEEING THAT HERE.

WE ARE SEEING THE INCREASE IN VIOLENT OFFENSES.

ANAYA'S LAW WOULD BE A GREAT TOOL TO HAVE SHOULD WE GET IT PASSED ON THE BALLOT.

>> WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

THANK YOU FOR COMING ON THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

APPRECIATE IT.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> YOU CAN WATCH PAST EPISODES OF "CAPITOL JOURNAL" ONLINE ANYTIME AT ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION'S WEBSITE APTV.ORG.

CLICK ON THE ONLINE VIDEO TAB ON THE MAIN PAGE.

YOU CAN ALSO CONNECT WITH "CAPITOL JOURNAL" AND LINK TO PAST EPISODES ON "CAPITOL JOURNAL'S" FACEBOOK PAGE.

>> NEXT, I'M JOINED BY LEAH NELSON OF THE ALABAMA APPLESEED CENTER FOR LAW AND JUSTICE.

THANK YOU FOR COMING ON THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> I WANTED TO HAVE YOU ON BECAUSE YOU ALL RECENTLY HAVE THIS REPORT, PUBLISHED THIS REPORT, BITTER PILL TALKING ABOUT OPIOID ADDICTION SPECIFICALLY IN ALABAMA'S PRISONS.

TELL ME, WHAT ARE SOME OF YOUR FINDINGS?

>> YEAH, SO THIS REPORT CAME ABOUT -- IT'S BEEN ABOUT 2 1/2 YEARS IN THE MAKING -- AFTER A COUPLE SHOWED UP ON APPLESEED'S PORCH BECAUSE THEIR SON HAD BEEN SENTENCED TO 26 YEARS IN PRISON IN CONNECTION WITH NON-VIOLENT DRUG CRIMES.

WHERE THE ONLY VICTIM HAD BEEN HIMSELF USING THE DRUGS.

BASED ON TALKING TO THEM AND WITH HIM AND OTHER SIMILARLY SITUATED PEOPLE WHO WERE INSIDE OF THE PRISONS AND THEY WERE EITHER THERE ON LONG SENTENCES FOR DRUG USE OR EVEN USING INSIDE THE PRISONS, EMBARKED ON A LENGTHY INVESTIGATION OF WHAT'S GOING ON BEHIND BARS.

PARTICULARLY WITH OPIOID USE, BUT ALSO WITH OTHER HARD DRUGS BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF ILLICIT DRUGS AVAILABLE INSIDE OF OUR PRISONS.

I WANT TO SAY THAT I DIDN'T ONLY FIND BAD NEWS.

I WENT INTO THIS LOOKING TO SEE WHAT ALABAMA WAS DOING TO RESPOND TO THE ADDICTION AND OVERDOSE CRISIS.

THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD NEWS.

THE OPIOID COUNCIL ESTABLISHED IN 2017 HAS MADE SOME INCREDIBLE STRIDES.

THAT'S A JOINT EFFORT BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, THE DEPARTMENT OF MENTAL HEALTH AND THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH.

AND THERE'S BEEN SOME EXTRAORDINARY INTERAGENCY COOPERATION.

THEY HAVE DONE REALLY SMART THINGS, LIKE GETTING NARCAN INTO THE HANDS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND MAKING SURE LAW ENFORCEMENT UNDERSTANDS WHY IT IS IMPORTANT TO REVERSE THOSE OVERDOSES AND GET PEOPLE INTO RECOVERY.

THE STATE HAS OPENED, I THINK SO FAR THREE CRISIS INTERVENTION CENTERS, WHICH WILL BE PLACES FOR PEOPLE WITH EMERGENCY NEEDS, INCLUDING PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING FROM ADDICTION CAN GET HELP RIGHT AWAY, WITHOUT HAVING TO GO THROUGH LAW ENFORCEMENT, EVEN IF LAW ENFORCEMENT PICKS SOMEONE UP AND FINDS THAT THEIR BEHAVIOR IS PROMPTED BY DRUG USE, LAW ENFORCEMENT CAN CHOOSE TO JUST GET THEM -- GIVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY DETOX AND GET INTO RECOVERY WITHOUT TOUCHING BASE AT A JAIL, WHICH IS GREAT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH SUBSTANCE ABUSE DISORDER NEED ARE OPTIONS FOR RECOVERY.

AND I WANT TO SHOUT-OUT TO STEVE MARSHALL WHO I THINK LED THE EFFORT TO GET LAW ENFORCEMENT ON BOARD WITH THIS.

HE TALKED ABOUT HOW BACK WHEN HE WAS A DISTRICT ATTORNEY HE WAS NOT CONVINCED BY NARCAN.

WHY WOULD YOU GIVE PEOPLE A SECOND AND THIRD CHANCE?

AND HE SAID THAT A DOCTOR EXPLAINED TO HIM, YOU CAN'T SAVE A DEAD PERSON.

I APPLAUD HIM FOR BRINGING LAW ENFORCEMENT ALONG WITH HIM ON THAT JOURNEY.

SO OUTSIDE OF JAILS AND PRISONS, WE ARE SEEING SOME SMART, THOUGHTFUL THINGS HAPPENING.

THE LEGALIZATION OF FENTANYL TEST STRIPS IS GOING TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE TO SEE HOW DANGEROUS THEIR DRUGS ARE.

THESE ARE REALLY SMART THINGS WE ARE DOING THAT WILL SAVE LIVES.

THE GOOD NEWS KIND OF ENDS AT JAIL AND PRISON DOORS.

SO WE KNOW THE STANDARD OF CARE FOR OPIOID USE DISORDER IS MEDICATION ASSISTED TREATMENT, LIKE METHADONE OR NALTREXONE.

THESE OPTIONS CAN HELP PEOPLE NOT USE AND THEY SAVE LIVES AND ALLOW PEOPLE TO LIVE NORMAL LIVES, AS LONG AS YOU TAKE THOSE MEDICATIONS, YOU CAN WORK AND CARE FOR YOUR KIDS AND BE A REGULAR MEMBER OF SOCIETY AND MOST IMPORTANTLY YOU CAN LIVE.

WHEN PEOPLE STOP THOSE MEDICATIONS ABRUPTLY, THEY ARE AT VERY HIGH RISK OF, FIRST OF ALL, DETOXING IS MISERABLE AND PARTICULARLY MISERABLE IF YOU ARE DOING IT BEHIND BARS, WHICH HAPPENS IF YOU ARE ARRESTED FOR SUBSTANCE USE AND YOU HAVE DRUGS ON YOU AND YOU ARE ADDICTED AND YOU GO INTO JAIL.

YOU ARE GOING TO DETOX IN THE WORST POSSIBLE CONDITIONS.

DETOXING IS NOT USUALLY DEADLY BUT IT CAN BE AND IT IS CERTAINLY INCREDIBLY UNCOMFORTABLE.

THERE'S A WAY TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM DETOXING IN JAIL, WHICH IS ALLOWING THEM TO HAVE ACCESS TO THEIR MEDICATIONS.

THAT WOULD ALSO SAVE LIVES BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO ARE ADDICTED WHO DETOX IN JAIL, WHEN THEY LEAVE THEY ARE 40 TIMES AS LIKELY AS OTHER PEOPLE TO DIE OF AN OVERDOSE AFTER THEY LEAVE BECAUSE THEIR BODIES AREN'T PREPARED FOR THE DRUGS THAT THEY TAKE.

AND THEY CAN DIE.

AGAIN, IF THIS IS ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE A CHANCE TO GET BETTER, WE FIRST HAVE TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE ALIVE.

MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO MEDICATIONS IN JAIL IS IMPORTANT AND THEN WHAT'S GOING ON IN OUR PRISONS IS THAT ACCESS TO RECOVERY HAS PLUMMETED.

IN 2010, MORE THAN 5,000 PEOPLE GRADUATED FROM RECOVERY PROGRAMS IN PRISON.

LAST YEAR IT WAS FEWER THAN 1,000.

I KNOW COVID WAS IN THERE, RIGHT, BUT THAT DOESN'T EXPLAIN THAT KIND OF DECREASE OVER THE COURSE OF MORE THAN A DECADE.

AT THE SAME TIME DEATHS RELATED TO DRUG USE HAVE SKYROCKETED.

IT IS EASIER TO GET ILLICIT, DANGEROUS DRUGS IN PRISON RATHER THAN TREATMENT.

>> I HEAR YOU ABOUT NEEDING MORE TREATMENT OPTIONS, FOCUSING ON THAT.

I'LL CERTAINLY BE ASKING SOME OF OUR STATE LEADERS ABOUT THAT.

I ALSO SEEMS LIKE A SECURITY ISSUE.

THESE ARE PRISONS, RIGHT?

IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE EASY TO GET IN OR OUT.

AND YET -- I HAVE TO ASSUME THAT PART OF THIS IS PRISON STAFF, GUARDS AND WHAT NOT BEING COME COMPLIES IT IS.

AND YOU ARE SEEING TALK OF LEGISLATION AROUND FENTANYL, AND MORE PENALTIES FOR THAT.

DO WE NEED TO HAVE MORE PENALTIES FOR GUARDS SMUGGLING IN DRUGS?

>> I WOULD SAY NO.

NOT BECAUSE I DON'T TAKE THE DANGERS OF FENTANYL SERIOUSLY OR FOR OFFICERS TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY.

I DON'T THINK THOSE ARE ALL RIGHT AT ALL.

BUT THE WAR ON DRUGS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR 50 YEARS.

DEMAND HAS NOT DECREASED.

THE PENALTIES ARE ALREADY REALLY HARSH AND CORRECTIONS ARE OFFICERS KNOW THAT BETTER THAN ANYONE BECAUSE THEY ARE INSIDE THE PRISONS AND KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE IN THERE.

I THINK IF WE ARE GOING TO TACKLE THE PROBLEM WE HAVE TO REDUCE DEMAND INSIDE OF PRISONS AND THAT IS NOT JUST MAKING TREATMENT AVAILABLE IN PRISONS BUT LOOKING AT THE ENVIRONMENT WE HAVE CREATED THERE WHERE PEOPLE ARE DESPAIRING, WHERE THEY FEEL THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GET PAROLED.

WHEN THEY KNOW THEY GET OUT EITHER NOT GOING TO HAVE REENTRY SERVICES.

IT'S DANGEROUS INSIDE OF PRISONS.

IT'S MISERABLE INSIDE OF OUR PRISONS.

IT'S NOT THAT SURPRISING THAT PEOPLE ARE TURNING TO ANY MEANS AT THEIR DISPOSAL TO ESCAPE EVEN FOR A MOMENT AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DRUG USE DOES.

>> SO, DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD OPPOSE -- YOUR GROUP WOULD OPPOSE THOSE PROPOSALS ON FENTANYL PERIOD?

I GUESS THE THOUGHT, ONE FROM MATT SIMPSON, BASICALLY TRAFFICKERS, IF YOU WERE CAUGHT TRAFFICKING A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF FENTANYL THEN YOU CAN GET JAIL TIME.

WHEREAS NOW IT IS NOT REQUIRED.

>> I'D REALLY WANT TO SEE THE LEGISLATION.

IF IT IS TRUE THAT YOU CAN'T GET PRISON TIME FOR TRAFFICKING FENTANYL THAT WOULD SURPRISE ME.

I'D WANT TO SEE IT BEFORE I TOOK A POSITION ON IT.

>> OKAY.

SWITCHING GEARS.

THERE'S AN INTERESTING ORDER THIS WEEK FROM JUDGE HARDWICK HERE IN MONTGOMERY ESSENTIALLY ENDING THE NEED FOR BOND FOR CERTAIN NON-VIOLENT CRIMES.

THIS ONLY APPLIES TO MONTGOMERY.

SO, IT'S NOT LIKE A STATE-WIDE ORDER OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

SOME SAY IT COULD BE A BLUEPRINT FOR A LARGER BOND REFORM CONVERSATION.

I KNOW YOUR GROUP HAS BEEN IN CONVERSATIONS ABOUT BOND REFORM.

WHAT SHOULD WE TAKE AWAY FROM THIS ORDER?

>> I THINK IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT RIGHT NOW -- SO, I HAVE LOOKED AT THE ORDER.

I DIDN'T HELP TO DRAFT IT BUT I WAS ON THE TEAM THAT WAS TALKING ABOUT IT FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS.

FIRST OF ALL, IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THIS IS A COMMUNITY EFFORT AND THE ORDER WAS WRITTEN BY JUDGES AND SIGNED BY THE PRESIDING JUDGE.

BUT RIGHT NOW, YOU CAN GET BOND AND GET OUT FOR ALMOST ALL CRIMINAL ACCUSATIONS, RIGHT?

I THINK THE ONLY THING YOU CAN BE DENIED BOND ON IS CAPITAL MURDER.

THERE MAY BE A FEW OTHERS.

SO, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO GET OUT AND PEOPLE WHO STAY IN IS WHETHER THEY HAVE ACCESS TO MONEY.

IF WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT, IF WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR PEOPLE ACCUSED 0 CERTAIN CRIMES, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE PRESUMED TO BE INNOCENT, TO BE LET OUT IS A DIFFERENCE CONVERSATION THAN WHETHER IT MAKES SENSE TO CHARGE PEOPLE TO GET OUT.

>> I GUESS THE PUSH BACK I'M HEARING IS WHAT IF IT IS NONVIOLENT CRIME OF THEFT.

IF I'M ARRESTED FOR THEFT, I COULD SIGN PAPERS AND BE ON THE STREET WITHIN AN HOUR AND IS THAT A GOOD IDEA?

>> IF YOU ARE ARRESTED TO THEFT AND HAVE ACCESS TO MONEY AND BOND IS SET AN INCOME YOU CAN REACH, IT IS NOT EQUITABLE.

PEOPLE WHO HAVE ACCESS TO MONEY CAN DO WHAT YOU DESCRIBED AND IF THAT IS BAD WE SHOULD HAVE A DIFFERENT CONVERSATION.

GETTING RID OF CASH BOND FOR LOWER LEVEL OFFENSES DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE ACCESS TO MONEY RIGHT NOW CAN PAY AND GET OUT.

>> THERE'S ALSO TALK ABOUT CLASS D FELONIES.

THIS IS PART OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM FROM 2015, IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.

CAM WARD WAS REALLY INVOLVED IN THAT.

WHERE THIS NEW CLASSIFICATION WAS SET UP FOR CERTAIN CRIMES THAT MAYBE SHOULDN'T LEAD TO PRISON TIME.

PART OF THE THINKING BEING PRISONS ARE TOO CROWDED AND THEY WERE SENDING PEOPLE THERE THAT SHOULDN'T BE THERE.

NOW WE ARE HEARING FROM PARTNERS THAT THE CLASS D ISN'T WORKING.

THEY ARE SAYING ON THE DRUG SCENE THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO GET PEOPLE OFF THE STREETS.

WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?

>> I SYMPATHIZE WITH THE FEELING THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO GET PEOPLE OFF THE STREETS.

WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH RECOVERY OPTIONS.

THE CRISIS CENTERS ARE A FANTASTIC START BUT NOT ENOUGH.

THERE'S MORE THAN THREE PLACES IN THE STATE AND A LOT OF PLACES WHERE THE DRUG CRISIS IS UNFOLDING AND WHERE IT IS WORST ARE MOST RURAL PLACES.

I REALLY UNDERSTAND THE IMPULSE BEHIND THIS, BUT I ALSO KNOW -- AND THIS IS LANGUAGE FROM THE SENTENCING COMMISSION, POSSESSION OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES DOMINATES AMONG CLASS D FELONIES.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER.

AS WE JUST WENT THROUGH AT LENGTH, PUTTING PEOPLE IN JAILS AND PRISONS WITH SUBSTANCE ABUSE DISORDER IT DOESN'T SAVE THEIR LIVES OR MAKE THEM SAFER OR MAKE THEM COME OUT AND LIVE HEALTHY LIVES AND SO IT DOESN'T MAKE US SAFER.

IT MAKES THEM SOMEONE ELSE'S PROBLEM BUT REALLY WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS MAKE IT EASIER TO GET INTO RECOVERY THAN TO GET MORE DRUGS.

>> WE DID A WHOLE SPECIAL ON OPIOID ADDICTION AND PREVENTION OF THAT AND TREATMENT LAST WEEK.

WE ARE RUNS OUT OF TIME, BUT WHERE CAN PEOPLE GO ONLINE TO FIND YOUR REPORT?

>> YEAH.

SO THE REPORT IS CALLED A BITTER PILL AND IT'S AT WWW.ALABAMAAPPLESEED.ORG.

IT'S ON OUR FRONT PAGE RIGHT NOW, BUT IF YOU GO TO APPLESEED.ORG AND BACK SLASH A BITTER PILL WILL BE THERE, AS WELL.

>> ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO DO THAT.

THANK YOU FOR COMING ON THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU VERY HAVING ME.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> SINGER WILSON PICKETT WAS AN ENERGETIC INTENSE PERFORMER.

HE GAINED FAME WITH HITS OF A LAND OF A THOUSAND DANCE AND IN THE MIDNIGHT HOUR AND BECAME ONE OF THE BIGGEST MUSIC STARS OF THE '60s AND '70s AND REMAINS ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT ARTISTS OF THIS MUSIC ERA.

HE MERGED THE GOSPEL ROOTS OF HIS VOCALS WITH LAYERED RHYTHMS.

HE WAS SOON TOPPING THE R&B CHARTS.

HE TOOK HIM TO FAME STUDIOS IN MUSCLE SHOALS THAT HAD BECOME A SOURCE OF HIT RECORDS AND HE AND THE SWAMPERS RECORDED HITS SUCH AS LAND OF A THOUSAND DANCES AND MUSTANG SALLY.

WILSON PICKETT WAS INDUCTED IN THE ROCK & ROLL HALL OF FAME IN '91.

>> THAT'S OUR SHOW FOR TONIGHT.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK NEXT WEEK, FRIDAY NIGHT AT 7:30 RIGHT HERE ON ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

FOR OUR "CAPITOL JOURNAL" TEAM, I'M TODD STACY.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME.