Support for Donnybrook is provided in part by Design Aire Heating and Cooling.

Well, you don't know what fair is.

>> Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.

>> Wow, do we have a lot of topics to discuss on this week's Donnybrook.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Before we jump in, let's meet the panelists, including the media veteran herself, Wendy Wiese, who will be heading up the big benefit for the St. Louis Media History Foundation on the 13th in Olivette.

Get your tickets and uh she's going to be heading up that trivia night.

Thanks a lot, Wendy, for doing that.

Bill McClellan of the St. Louis Post Dispatch.

Also from the Post and STLtoday.com, Joe Holleman and the birthday boy himself on September the 6th.

Not quite yet.

You still have time to get a letter into the mail.

>> Send a check.

You still got time.

>> Alvin Reid, of course, from the American.

We're going to kick things off with you because uh yesterday, Wednesday at noon, the special session for the general assembly started in Jefferson City.

Uh, Governor Kehoe, I guess, at the behest of the White House, has asked that the legislators redraw the congressional districts.

Right now, there are six Republican congressmen and two uh Democrats out of the state of Missouri.

That's not enough.

Uh, the governor and the president would like seven Republicans and one Democrat.

Of course, you never know what's going to happen.

They're just going to redraw the districts to make that likely to happen.

But they're also thinking about changing uh the methods needed to change the state constitution.

Right now, you need a vote of the people, 50% plus one vote.

They're thinking about having um that requirement plus it has to pass in all the congressional districts, all eight.

Otherwise, uh there will be no change to the constitution.

What are you thinking, Alvin?

Well, I I think going back to Friday when at what, Friday 4:00 when the governor announced, you know, headed out for Labor Day weekend that he was introducing his Missouri first map, which he obviously didn't draw because this all came up about two weeks ago or whatever.

And I'm sure he got a sharp pencil and sat down and did all that by himself.

Um it it he just looked just ghastly in that video that he sent out because he doesn't I won't say he doesn't want to do it, but it's at the behest of the president.

Everybody's afraid of the president and it's just I think he just used up all his cache in in several communities uh throughout the state and it's just sad.

It it this is just a sad thing that's happening in Missouri and other places in the state right now.

Now, as far as, you know, the ballot initiatives, I think 60% is too high.

Maybe 50% is, you know, 50% plus one is too low.

Maybe compromise.

You get to 54, 55 or something like that.

But in the meantime, uh, one other thing, he withdrew the five nominees for the police board because he didn't want that to clutter up the important redistricting.

So, I mean, the governor's just all over the place, but he's under the president's thumb and he will be there as long as the president is in Washington.

>> But Governor Kehoe has said that he will all he will do is just resubmit the names for the police board except for perhaps maybe one.

>> I I would my guess is that not all five will be recent.

>> Okay.

Yeah.

in in terms of the redistricting, it it seems that if you I mean, first of all, it's what seven years ahead of uh >> yeah, it would be after the census, which would be in 2030.

>> Okay.

But um if you have to if you have to do this kind of thing, if you have to rig the outcome, then I think that makes everybody uncomfortable.

And it doesn't matter whether it's the Republican party or the Democratic Party or the Green Party or whatever party's in power.

>> And they're still probably going to chances are they're still going to lose the House anyway because California and and Illinois are poised to do whatever they need to do.

And you might end up losing in the long run and then Missouri might lose because you're going to create some districts now that will one day be in play again.

And that it's just shortsighted.

It's just just >> Well, you know, I you know, I agree.

I I think that this this idea of of rigging the process ahead of time.

I think we should continue with rigging the process every 10 years because that's all what I what I don't like though.

What I what I don't like is is the idea of people going why there will be gerrymandering going on.

There has been gerrymandering since George Washington had a position of power.

I I mean so this idea that districts will be redrawn and Democrats will lose power.

That's sort of what gerrymandering is about and it's been done by both parties in all states for hundreds of years.

>> If you look and Josh Renault, who is your colleague at the post, put uh the before and after >> maps of what the current congressional districts look like and what the proposed ones look like.

And actually, the proposed ones look more contiguous and compact and reasonable than the current alignment, which is it's not holy whatsoever.

Well, I remember when our former colleague Ray Hartman ran for Congress and Ray was showing me the map and of course it had been uh Anne Wagner and the Democrats in the legislature had worked out a way to make every everything safer for Clay and safer for Wagner and poor Raid I mean to to try to wiggle the way through his district was uh >> it was like a little snake.

Well, again, when you get into the gerrymandering thing, I mean, let's take our neighboring state of Illinois for example, about 44% vote for Trump Republican.

So, in they have three of 18 congressional seats in Illinois.

That's 17%.

There has to be some gerrymandering going on.

>> Well, Missouri is the same way, right?

>> And there always has been.

The only problem, so I I can understand people say, "You shouldn't be doing this without the census.

Do it every 10 years."

What I don't like is this how immoral and disgusting this is.

It's basically what it is.

It's immoral and disgusting not to do it at every 10 years.

Most of the most of the cataling is about the fact that this is being done when it shouldn't be.

>> Exactly.

That's >> you know I mean it's not everybody knows as young why is it being done.

>> So we're fine with ridiculous politically motivated redrawing as long as we only do it every year.

>> As long as you follow the rules and it's every 10 years.

Yeah.

Why is why is it being done?

>> It's not exactly the high horse.

Why why is it being done and is being done, >> right?

Yeah.

The moral high ground, but the whole conversation might be moot because former Supreme Court Justice Mike Wolf, uh, also the former dean of law school at St. Louis University, I think a guy who's got his head on his shoulders is right most of the time.

He says that it's clearly uncon unconstitutional because in the state of Missouri, the constitution says that you redistrict after the sentences.

And so if uh obviously some sort of lawsuit's going to be coming up maybe for reason.

Hey uh Joe I want to ask you about uh tornado damage in North St. Louis.

Um of course we had a May 16th tornado and in the past couple of weeks there have been two stories in uh St. Louis Public Radio taking a look at uh the cleanup or what hasn't been cleaned up yet.

not a lot of data, but eyeballing the streets and looking at a lot of trees down, a lot of bricks on the ground, and people are saying, "Hey, come on.

Are we going too slowly?"

Today, the mayor announced that she's going to throw what, $12 million into more $12 million more dollars in, >> right?

You know, I mean, are we going too slowly if you live in that area?

Absolutely you are.

But let's I mean this was a category one tornado that did severe damage to a lot of old brick homes and old large trees.

And the notion that a city that was struggling to pick up garbage and plow the streets would somehow get all of this debris wiped up without the help of the core of engineers or some federal assistance.

Uh I I I just didn't see it happening.

It's been 3 months.

And sometimes you write stories because it's been 3 months.

Let's look at this.

You know, and so you drive around and you go, well, this looks terrible.

Okay, it probably does.

It looks better than it did two months ago or one month ago, but yeah, there's a lot of work to do.

And the idea that it was all going to get cleaned up in 90 days and nobody was going to notice anything.

>> I got two theories.

I >> I think was was over o overzealous.

>> Yeah, agree.

But that story by Andrea Henderson about a meeting in July where this organization asked for a dumpster and the mayor said, you know, we'll get on it and it's now September and they don't have their dumpster.

I mean, I thought, you know, I I know that the the city's overwhelmed with stuff, but that but the optics in terms of of Norster to people when you have a big meeting.

Here's the deal.

You know, you saw the story this week where the mayor, Cara Spencer, said that she's going to end the family and medical leave policy that too many city workers have been taking advantage of.

Some departments have 20% of the staff out.

And in fact, former mayor Tishara Jones said it was her only regret when she was speaking to St. Louis Public Radio.

She goes, "You know what?

Too many employees took advantage of that.

So, they don't have employees there."

And then the Associated General Contractors of Missouri came out with a report this week saying the reason construction projects are delayed in this area, the number one reason, it's not tariffs, it's a lack of labor.

>> They've been saying that for a long time.

Agency has been saying that since I was at RCGA.

I'm not kidding.

We don't have workers.

And another story, it was reported that 1.2 million immigrants have already been booted out of this country.

So, who's going to be doing a lot of this work?

But the immigrants, >> I I just think that you basically if you wanted to pay people to pick up bricks and help saw trees, I understand that some of these trees that are down that takes professional equipment and people and all that, but I think if you make it an hourly wage of a high enough level, you will get people and just take it a block at a time or a half block at a time until this block is completely cleared of debris.

we're not leaving this block and then we'll move on to the next one and then we'll move on to the next one.

I'm still waiting on the plan for doing this.

That's that's what seems to be >> but that's what that's what the 31 member >> blue ribbon commission.

>> But I I I don't think there there aren't enough unemployed people looking for work.

>> Oh, I think I think that if Charlie I think if you let's just say let's just say I'm paying $30 an hour for debris removal.

You think they'd come out of >> I think people would all of a sudden find get down there and do that.

I I really do.

>> Well, Bill's column this week suggests that uh to uh get workers in a worker shortage, we should be using union apprentices.

>> Well, I was saying that, you know, unions built the city, and I think if you're going to try to rebuild a city, you have to get the unions on board.

And that's where the apprentices came in.

you know, right right now, uh, codes and regulations might have like a journeyman can only supervise one apprentice and and obviously if if we're going to try to rebuild the city with a WPA type program, you would need more apprentices.

But I, you know, I base that partially on when I walk around Forest Park and I go past Post Dispatch Lake and there's a big plaque there that in the panic of 1894, Joseph Pulitzer announced that uh we're going to build a lake and anybody who wants to come out and earn a day's wage, bring your shovel.

than 20,000 people showed up and and I know this is more complicated, but I think, you know, something like the WPA, you would be worth a try.

>> I I I think it's a I I I think it's a an attractive idea.

>> I think there's a couple of problems with it.

>> It's a romantic idea, >> right?

It is.

>> It's a romantic idea.

>> One is is the WPA did public projects.

Mhm.

>> We're talking about rebuilding people's private homes with what?

Tax money.

>> Whoa.

No, I said the the Rams money.

And I think you could get corporations to to kick in and help this rebuilding of the city in the tornado zone.

And if it works there, extend it.

But but I have to say, >> but Rams money is our money, too, >> right?

Yes.

Yeah.

And and maybe, you know, that's maybe that is that's a it is it is a terrific idea.

I mean, it was a a depression and it was it was FDR and, you know, it was a totally different America.

And now we can't get kids though to, you know, to get fast food jobs.

They they don't want fast food jobs.

So manual labor, I don't know that they're that that we have the same workforce we did back then.

I think that that's part of somebody would have to math this out where like, okay, for your amount of money that you're going to be paid, basically all you're going to do is saw tree limbs, pretty simple, or put bricks in a wheelbarrow and move them.

>> We're not going to ask you to do any more than that because we just need that's what we need done right now.

And then >> by the time we get to wiring people's houses and all that, I think they would have decided we're not rebuilding this house whatsoever.

Well, I I I have to admit I didn't get any calls from the mayor from the new game.

>> Well, let me tell you something didn't come.

>> I'm going to tell you the big unreported story of this storm.

Uh and it really backs up Alvin's theory on Aberdine and a Rundle in Clayton which were hit by uh the tornado and trees were down.

Immediately that afternoon, people had come in from all over the state of Illinois and Missouri offering their help for $1,000 an hour.

>> And they were getting it.

And yes, and I understand because that was I had heard an hour.

>> And I have people who will corroborate my >> But these were crews.

This was not >> No, this was this was individuals.

And I don't know how many.

>> Well, they were they were professionals like when people when it snows who will will shovel parking lots and they charge you a hefty penny.

So these are people out making money and they went to a neighborhood where they know there was money to be had and they did.

>> There was capitalism and it's fine.

Well, a friend of mine who lives on a Rundle told me that there was a lot of damage to the roofs and he said, you know, 3 4 days after the tornado, he said it it seemed like a Cinco deayo, you know, on the roofs were all these Mexican workers with the Mexican music playing, but I mean th those fellas weren't making $1,000.

Definitely, >> but but they also weren't being paid by the government.

Well, the company probably was, but >> they weren't they weren't being paid by government.

they were being paid by people who own those homes or through insurance.

The the I think the sticking point with Bill's idea is is that >> you're asking the government to turn over and pay these people to build private private residences.

Who owns that private residence then when we're done?

>> The the individual owners but be my plan and I know there's problems with >> but the taxpayer.

>> All right.

Well, we'll work them out.

Uh Wendy, I want to ask you about speaking of money.

Um the government, federal government has said that states cannot provide instate tuition or scholarships to undocumented workers, those who are here illegally.

And uh to spite the president or just because he believed in the principle, Governor JB Pritsker of Illinois signed a bill that said that yes, Illinois will pay for scholarships as well as uh instate tuition for undocumented students who want to go to Illinois colleges.

Where do you stand on this one?

With the the federal government or with um uh the rebellious governor of Illinois?

Well, I'm on the uh on the fence where I usually sit up on my perch, but uh no, I have a I have a problem with this.

I think there are a lot of students who don't quite, you know, they they can't quite eek out that GPA academically.

They're they're a little bit uh you know, maybe challenged in in in that particular area like many of us are.

I mean mathematics but uh I I would rather see I would rather see kids whose parents were born here.

I mean maybe you know u just lower the expectations lower the requirements the academic requirements first let give those kids a chance pay for vote you know give them a break on vote training but I don't know I just have a problem >> I I think that if you are a student in the public schools in Missouri you should get instate tuition at Missouri colleges and the same in Illinois.

I mean, I don't think that uh like I wouldn't be in favor of like scholarships just for illegal aliens or anything, but I think that those kids who are living in the state, attending public schools ought to be able to attend colleges as instate residents.

>> Well, I would I I agree with you.

Um, but if you were here and you're undocumented and I guess could be asked to leave or told to leave at any time, I just feel as though like if Illinois's got scholarship money, I could find some Illinois residents that could use >> the scholarship in in state residency.

Well, I mean, if you're if you grew up here and you have a a a address and all that and get accepted to college, yes, you I think you could pay instate tuition, >> okay, >> while you're here.

I mean, until you're, like I say, asked to leave.

I I guess.

>> Well, and I think that's the thing that the word illegal just seems to get glossed over here.

>> You're not supposed to be here.

>> Okay.

So, the idea So, whose side am I on in this case?

The federal governments.

And I think it's a political spitting contest between Donald Trump and JB Pritsker is what it is.

And he says, "I'm not going to buckle to you and I'm going to sign this."

But I want to make sure that I know that every kid >> born and raised in Illinois or here legally immigrants who followed the process, I want to make sure they got their shot at a scholarship first.

I want to see the paperwork.

I think you're talking about the the so-called dreamers.

you know, these kids who came over here when they were children and and it wasn't like they made the decision, I'm going to come over.

Their families did and they're living here and they're working and going to to high school because >> I think they ought to be treated like instate >> because among other things, we need an educated populace.

I mean, that's >> what we need, Charlie, is a populace that's supposed to be here.

>> Well, no, educated policy.

>> Are we supposed to be the only country that doesn't enforce our borders?

years because if I go to Canada, I don't think I just start qualifying for stuff.

>> You you sound like the Wampao Indians when they saw uh the English come on over.

>> So you're in favor of the people.

>> Did they get a permit from the Wampao to >> So you're in favor of the people who took the land from the Indians.

Is that what you're saying?

>> I admire the hardworking immigrants who are here who are performing great services.

Come by and sign the guest book, Charlie.

Just sign the guest book when you enter.

That's all we're asking.

or that.

Well, actually, if there was a guest that you were here, then I could work with that.

>> Exactly.

>> I mean, I could I could work with that.

I mean, >> but this idea that it's anti-immigrant is is ridiculous.

>> It is anti-im because Biden had a bill that would have legalized them and they would have paid a fine and it would have been all over.

So, they would have been >> It is not anti-immigrant to say people should be here legally.

It is not.

It's that simple.

Well, like you said that another two, three years that bill will come back and that bill will pass.

>> There's a lot of stuff going on right now that just is going to change.

>> Joe.

Okay, Joe.

Two more topics before we uh dismiss you.

>> Um Oh, wow.

>> He doesn't mean dismiss you.

>> I I let you be on your way.

>> That's what he meant.

>> Wait.

Well, great managers have been fired.

But that didn't let you go your way.

You're not fired.

One more order in >> Joe.

Uh there's a new law, you know, uh I guess the new law is going into effect late August in the state of Missouri.

One of them is that the state no will long will no longer seize the assets of the incarcerated.

Maybe maybe some of our viewers don't know that, but if you were spending time at the Greybar Motel, the attorney general could claw your assets to pay for your three squares.

And it seems to me uh they changed that law so the state's not going to do that anymore.

But you know, uh, if we had a, god forbid, Jeffrey Epstein, rich guy who abused kids in our jails, I would want to claw back his assets, wouldn't you?

>> No.

Because if you claw his assets back, then you can claw anybody's ass assets back.

And so if somebody's in there and they have money and so they go and and the state says you have to do nine years or 12 years and you do your time and they say, "Okay, you can get out now.

You're okay."

and you come out, oh, but by the way, the $12,000 you had in account, we're taking that, too.

Now, you've just quadrupled the chances of that person ending up back in jail.

I mean, I don't think we ever should have been charging room and board for people that we said you have to go to this prison.

They're just I I think it was wrong then, it's wrong now.

And it sounds great to say, let's take a millionaire's money.

What about a half a millionaire's money?

What about where do you draw the line?

>> There could be an income test.

So like a star chamber we could set up to where you know the Tony Messenger has done some really good columns about this about like somebody gets a a life insurance policy their mother dies and they get and so they're in prison and they got like well I got a $15,000 stake when I got out and then the government comes along and say no you don't we're taking that you're getting out broke.

It it it's just it's not it's not the right thing to do.

>> Right.

And you know, let's say I'm I was a beasler or whatever, but I've fasted loose or just how whatever.

Okay, I get busted.

If I have invested in my kids scholarship cuz I knew that, hey, dad's kind of out there, right?

But you all could go to any college you want to because there's money put aside, invested, and it's yours.

Forgive me, I did wrong.

I'll see you in five years, but in the meantime, you can go to college.

and they take that money away.

Destroying the family.

>> And what about the people who are falsely imprisoned?

Falsely I mean look at all of >> Well, they don't want to give them the they want like money back.

They are true losers.

But I see this I see this nothing different than a civil lawsuit where you you did something wrong and the injured party's going to get money and I see no >> remember what was the name of that fellow who did the Ponzi scheme in New York?

>> Oh yeah.

Now, like his wife ended up still living in their >> penthouse penthouse and all the people who he he stole money from look and say, "How come she's living or the no further questions or the sacklers and the and the opium and if I bought a house?

Let's say I I bought a house."

>> We're running out of time.

You guys think it's a three-hour program.

It's Wendy.

>> The Cardinals Tuesday night, 17,000 paid, but I don't know how many showed up.

Something less than that.

>> Do you think I mean we're living in a town that lost the Hawks, >> the Football Cardinals, the NFL Rams, that if these numbers don't improve, they'll be an excuse for the ownership to take the team to Nashville?

>> I don't think that's going to happen.

I I just cannot imagine a world where the Dwitz would completely uproot, implode, turn the world of baseball, one of the one of the most legendary franchises on its head.

I I I don't I don't see that.

No.

I mean, I think they are capable of doing a lot of things.

>> They fired you during Christmas.

>> That Well, that is true.

That's that's true.

They did, but uh I I don't think that they I just don't think they will ever move their team.

Cardinal's highest value is in the footprint it's in right now.

They're not ever going to move any place because that's the highest value.

All those other franchises, you said, Football Cardinals, Rams, all that immediately like double tripled in value by simply moving.

The Cardinals would would not do that.

>> Three years from now, we're in the playoffs vying.

We got good teams.

We're back up to 40,000 people a night and nobody's talking about this.

I I mean, it's from your mouth.

It's it's but it's one of those ideas.

is I mean >> sounds like Rams 2010 >> 17,000 people of Miami would love to have 17,000 people at a ball game.

They haven't moved yet.

>> I remember when there was a not you there was a one of your colleagues of the post dispatch said oh man Stan Crock never moved the team because his mom lives here.

>> Yeah.

Well I So you're comparing the franchise to out of time.

Let's go to the old mailbag and see what people had to say about last week's program.

My wife and I attended last Saturday's cityfest in Oallen Illinois.

I can assure you that there was an abundance of police on site.

In the end, parents have to be held accountable for the actions of their wards.

Thank you, Richard Humphrey of Shiloh.

Marian Miller of St. Louis wrote, "I agree with Sarah.

We don't need another data center in town.

They're loud and use a lot of resources.

You can write us care of 9PBS, St. Louis, Missouri 63108."

Don't forget those emails.

Donny Brook9pbs.org.

On social media, use donnybrookst.

Call the Nine line.

We're looking forward to hearing from you at 314512994.

And make sure you listen to us wherever you are on your favorite podcast source.

On the YouTube channel, we have the Nine PBS program uh Last Call.

And this week, among other things, we're going to talk about why the St. Louis Police Foundation is no longer subsidizing the chief's salary.

That's it for this week's program.

Happy birthday on Saturday to you, Alvin Reed.

Actually, my wife's birthday is tomorrow.

I better get a gift tonight.

>> That's it.

We'll see you next week at this time.

Oh, your daughter, too.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh, that's right.

Happy birthday.

Oh my gosh.

>> Thank goodness.

Walgreens is open.

>> Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of NinePBS.