JOHN YANG: Tonight on PBS News Weekend, with turmoil at the CDC, some governors are joining forces to make their own vaccine recommendations.

Then, why the Trump administration wants to eliminate the only federal agency that investigates chemical disasters and a Grammy nominated trio at the vanguard of a new movement in music where vocals take a backseat to a moody, guitar driven vibe.

WOMAN: When there's not a human touchdown of a voice, I think it's slightly more challenging, but I think it's a challenge that people enjoy.

(BREAK) JOHN YANG: Good evening.

I'm John Yang.

Amid the turmoil at the CDC, the debate over the federal government's vaccine policy remains as contentious as ever.

Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr's combative appearance on Capitol Hill this week did little to clear up the issue.

He was pressed by senators of both parties, including two Republicans who are physicians.

Now some states are taking matters into their own hands.

They're forming alliances to review scientific data and make their own vaccine recommendations.

The Democratic governors of California, Oregon and Washington with the first act, they were joined the next day by Hawaii.

Earlier, I spoke with Hawaii Governor Josh Green, a Democrat who's a physician.

GOV.

JOSH GREEN (D) Hawaii: We are in a great time of crisis as far as public health goes.

Right now.

The HHS administration led by Mr. Kennedy is in disarray and it's causing a lot of concern across the country.

We need to have good science.

We need data based science.

We need evidence based science.

And so my good friends, the three governors from the west coast formed this alliance.

And I had a lot of experience as a physician and the person who dealt with COVID in Hawaii as lieutenant governor.

So it just made a lot of sense.

But we're going to try to guide the country in a positive way, just non-politically, but in a way that helps us, you know, protect lives.

JONH YANG: How are you going to develop the recommendations?

Who's going to do that?

JOSH GREEN: This will be from scientific experts.

Our expectation is we will use a lot of the people that have been around for several years doing the job under Republicans and Democrats in different administrations, people who are trained pediatricians and infectious disease experts.

It's very likely some of the people that have recently been pushed out of the CDC or the special committees, they may very well want to come aboard.

We also have directors of health in our own states that are our thoughtful public health leaders.

All of these people will contribute.

Plus, we'll do what you should do, which is rely on things like the national pediatric associations and internal medicine associations and all of these individuals that have given us the right guidance to keep disease at a minimum, to prevent outbreaks like measles and mumps and polio.

Because I tell you, it's very disconcerting right now to see what's happening.

Not only are they dismantling what will be good advice, but they're kind of giving license to other states to go rogue.

And that's what you're seeing in Florida.

They're going to pretty much move straight away from science, and they're going to allow people to do whatever they want, which is going to cause outbreaks when people don't get vaccinated.

I'd be remiss if I didn't say that none of this would be necessary if RFK Jr. would just step down and allow someone with a scientific background to run that department.

Because right now you are seeing the great dismantling of public health in America, and we'll do our part to build it up.

But this could be a bumpy couple years, and we're hopeful that this will give people an opportunity to see what the right science recommendations are.

JOHN YANG: And no, you were lieutenant governor when the pandemic began.

You became governor in 2022.

Hawaii had one of the highest vaccination rates and one of the lowest mortality rates during that time.

Are there lessons that can be learned from that for other states or for the federal government?

JOSH GREEN: Absolutely.

What we did was we just expressed in a fair way to everyone what their options were.

It wasn't about mandates.

It wasn't about anything that would scare people like you're seeing come from RFK Jr.

It just was good science.

As a physician, I was able to express what I learned as a family practice physician, how you would best protect yourself.

We went analytically, one community by the next, and what we saw was when people knew that they would have a lower mortality rate, death rate by getting vaccinated, they made a good choice.

So that's the way it's got to go.

So we should give credit to the President for his work in his first term on the.

The production of the mRNA vaccine.

And we should also make sure that this is not a political question so that everyone can get access to that vaccination if they want it, if their doctors recommend it.

And the same can be said for other research, because their move to move away from bird flu research and mRNA research, that means people will not get vaccinations in the next iteration, which, by the way, is a national security threat if only China gets the vaccination, say, the next time, what's going to happen when we have to worry about some terrible virus or even, God forbid, an attack of some sort?

You know, these are real issues for we governors and senators and presidents.

And so it's a colossal mistake, what they're doing, and we're just trying to fill in the gap until there's a new leadership.

JOHN YANG: What does it say, the fact that you and your fellow governors on the west coast feel the need for this alliance?

What does that say about the state of public health in this country?

JOSH GREEN: Well, the state of public health is a cataclysmic disaster right now because of Mr. Kennedy's leadership.

Now, let me be nice here for a moment.

Mr. Kennedy could very well have something to offer the President and the country in the areas of processed foods or nutrition or pesticide use.

I appreciate that, but because he's so divisive and because he has a political axe to grind with vaccinations, we have a full schism, a true divide in our country.

And it tells you that there are two camps.

Those who will follow science and those who will follow politics.

And those who will follow politics are currently in charge of the Department of Health and Human Services.

And it will kill people.

It will kill people.

You've already seen some fatalities from this big measles outbreak.

And believe me, in year two and three of this second administration, it's going to get very bad.

So Mr. Kennedy's not doing the president any favors at all.

I've had very good conversations with leaders at every level in the federal government, including the President, and I am expressing this openly, that he should move Mr. Kennedy to a different place in the government.

If he wants to keep him, that's okay.

And put in someone that aligns with him politically, perhaps conservatively, but follows science, and they can work with Kennedy on some of these nutrition issues, that's fine.

But our health is at stake in our country, especially for our children, especially for children who are not even yet of age to get some of the vaccinations.

It's going to be really bad.

And it's going to be worst in the states that are rural, that are poor, that don't have access to healthcare providers at all, which, by the way, happened to be the president's base, as ironic as that might be.

JOHN YANG: Governor Josh Green, M.D.

Of Hawaii, thank you very much.

JOSH GREEN: Thank you.

It's an honor.

JOHN YANG: And tonight's other headlines, the South Korean government is expressing concern and regret over this week's immigration raid.

And at a Georgia Hyundai plant that swept up South Korean nationals.

Today, ICE released new video of the operation.

It shows agents descending on the site of an electric vehicle battery plant.

Nearly 500 workers were lined up, searched and detained, most of them South Koreans.

The lead agent for Homeland Security investigations in Georgia claims the detained workers either entered the country illegally, had expired visas or entered on visas that prohibited them from working.

The Israeli military is further expanding its operations in Gaza City, ordering area residents to move to humanitarian zones in the south.

The IDF made the announcement on social media and dropped leaflets over the flattened city.

As an incentive, the Israeli military said the humanitarian area would have field hospitals, clean water and food.

But aid groups are skeptical and have repeatedly warned that a large scale evacuation of Gaza City would worsen the dire humanitarian crisis.

In Ukraine.

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is ruling out a trip to Moscow to negotiate with Russian leader Vladimir Putin.

He was responding to a suggestion Putin made on Friday.

In an interview with ABC News, Zelenskyy called the invitation a stalling tactic.

Not a step toward peace.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: I can't go to Moscow under when my country is under missiles under attacks each day.

I can't go to this capital of this terrorist.

I always said we can't trust Putin.

He play games and he's playing games with the United States, I think.

So it's to my mind.

JOHN YANG: Ukraine's foreign minister said at least seven countries have offered to host peace talks between Ukraine and Russia.

And in a galaxy not so far away, the legacy of Darth Vader lives on.

DARTH VADER: Your destiny lies with me.

Skywalker Obi Wan News to be true.

JOHN YANG: The prop lightsaber he wielded in that father son battle in the Empire Strikes Back has been sold at auction for $3.6 million.

That makes it the most expensive piece of Star Wars memorabilia to be auctioned off.

No word yet on the buyer who embraced this bit of the dark side.

Still to come on PBS News Weekend, why the Trump administration wants to shut down the only agency charged with investigating chemical disasters.

And we meet the Texas Trio at the forefront of a new movement in music.

(BREAK) JOHN YANG: The U.S. chemical Safety Hazard and Investigation Board, or CSB, is a small federal agency with a big name and a singular mission, investigating the root causes of serious chemical accidents and making recommendations for preventing similar events in the future.

The board also produces award winning animated reenactment videos which serve as instructive after action reports.

They've got a devoted following online.

MAN: The dryer catastrophically exploded.

At 11:05 a.m. there was a large explosion.

The tank separated from its base and launched up and over a six story structure.

JOHN YANG: But the Trump administration wants to shut the agency down.

It says the CSB duplicates the role of other agencies like EPA and OSHA, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration.

Ali Rogin spoke with former OSHA Director Dave Michaels, who's now a George Washington University professor.

ALI ROGIN: David, thank you for joining us.

What does the U.S. Chemical Safety Board do?

DAVID MICHAELS, Former Director, OSHA: The Chemical Safety Board comes into businesses after there's been a catastrophe, a major explosion via a chemical release in situations where workers, neighbors or first responders are killed, and it does a root cause investigation.

The Chemical Safety Board has no enforcement responsibilities.

It can't issue fines.

No one goes to jail because of its findings.

It really tries to get down into depth and what happened?

Why did this occur?

And how can we make sure it never happens again?

ALI ROGIN: The Trump administration says it wants to eliminate the Board because it's redundant.

You've argued that it is a really unique entity.

Why do you say that?

DAVID MICHAELS: That's right.

OSHA and EPA by law don't do these sort of root cause analyses.

When I ran OSHA, I would send in an inspector.

Inspector says, are you meeting OSHA regulations?

And if not, we issue a fine.

But the issues that the CSP looks at are much deeper.

They're broader.

They're much more difficult to address than OSHA or EPA.

And if they were eliminated, we would all suffer.

Certainly companies that use chemicals recognize that they need the CSB to understand how they can make their workplaces safer.

ALI ROGIN: For the average American, why should it matter to them that the Chemical Safety Board not go away?

DAVID MICHAELS: There have been so many Americanists to this point who have been affected by these catastrophes that the CSB investigates and anyone who lives anywhere near a facility that uses chemicals is at risk.

The Chemical Safety Board's findings and their videos are very powerful teaching tools to businesses, to first responders, even to agencies like EPA and OSHA, how to work better, how to make sure no one's going to get hurt in the future.

ALI ROGIN: We talked about those videos.

They've developed a real cult following among folks online and of course they're instructive for people in the industry itself.

Tell me about the unique function that those videos play.

DAVID MICHAELS: One of the great things the CSB does is once they do their investigation, they really dig down as to what was the problem with the process safety system or as occurred at a huge event which killed 15 workers at a BPV refinery in Texas City.

They found that workers had worked weeks in a row every day, sometimes 12 hour days, and people were tired.

So they turn these findings into videos.

And so they're not just reports that sit on a shelf.

You can watch these incredibly well made videos with animation and interviews with the managers, with the workers.

And so the lessons are really conveyed much more effectively than other agencies can do that.

ALI ROGIN: What does industry say about the presence of the board?

DAVID MICHAELS: Well, part of the chemical industry most affected by this, the company is represented by the American Chemistry Council.

The industry trade association said that the CSB's investigations, their reports and their videos have been a very valuable resource and they don't want to see it go away.

No one is asking for the CSB to be closed except for Elon Musk and the DOGE people and now the White House.

ALI ROGIN: And of course, this is happening in the context of President Trump seeking to bring manufacturing back from overseas to the United States.

Does that to you underscore the importance of having this independent board?

DAVID MICHAELS: We want to bring as many jobs as we can back to the United States, but we want to bring back safe jobs.

If we bring back factories that explode or that emit large numbers of chemicals, it's a self-defeating process.

We need to bring back safe jobs.

And if we're bringing back these jobs, the CSB can play a really useful role in.

ALI ROGIN: So why then do you think President Trump is looking to shutter this board?

DAVID MICHAELS: I think within the White House right now, there is this visceral dislike of the government.

Every industry I have any contract with, every union I have any contract with, first responder organizations, they all see the need for the CSB because they've seen the animations, they've read the reports.

They know that CSB reports and videos have prevented catastrophes that have cost many, many times the tiny budget of the CSB.

ALI ROGIN: Now, if we go back in recent history, President George H.W.

Bush, President Clinton both argued against the formation of this board.

Why was that at the time and how do you think the board has evolved since then?

DAVID MICHAELS: When Congress first passed legislation forming the Chemical Safety Board, I think the chemical industry, the petroleum industry, they were very worried and they pressured the White House not to start the board from going.

In the 30 or more year since then, the Chemical Safety Board has proved its worth many times over.

And all those industries that were opposed to the board when it got started now are quite supportive of it.

But we need that outside oversight.

And the CSB is a small agency.

It's a $14 million budget and they punch way above their weight.

ALI ROGIN: David Michaels, former OSHA head, now a professor at G.W.

University, thank you so much for joining us.

DAVID MICHAELS: My pleasure.

Great to be here with you.

JOHN YANG: In today's pop music, vocals reign supreme.

The charts are dominated by singers and rappers, but there's an increasingly popular genre focused more on instrumental music.

William Brangham recently caught up with one of the bands at the forefront of this movement.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM (voice-over): This Texas trio, with their airy and dreamy sound, are one of the most unlikely musical sensations.

Guitarist Mark Speer, bassist Laura Lee Ochoa and drummer Donald DJ Johnson are the band known as Khruangbin.

Even though their shows sell out globally like they did here in Vermont this summer, even they can't quite put a label on this moody genre they've called carved out.

MARK SPEER, Khruangbin: People still ask me, like, hey, so, oh, you're in a man.

What genre do you play?

I don't know.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM (voice-over): Whatever it's called, it has taken Krungman to great heights.

They've had hit collaborations with fellow Texan Leon Bridges and another with Sir Paul McCartney, those trademark black wigs that Mark and Laura wear.

They were initially put on as a lark before their first ever show, but they now offer an easy mask of anonymity.

Their records have earned them critical acclaim for their undefinable brew of rock, funk and psychedelia.

But even 15 years on, the band members say the process of crafting that sound is still evolving.

MARK SPEER: Earlier in our career, yes, we had a very specific way of making songs, but I feel like that's shifted over the years.

And I couldn't tell you exactly how we do it anymore because every time we go into it's different.

LAURA LEE OCHOA, Khruangbin: Yeah, they're just like puzzle pieces.

Almost like arranging furniture in a room.

You like, you don't know where anything's gonna go and then you find one thing that works and you're like, this is where this table's going to go.

MARK SPEER: And then you paint and it's like, oh crap.

Now I have to rethink the whole.

DONALD JOHNSON, Khruangbin: I mean we have a saying.

The song will tell you what it wants.

MARK SPEER: Yes.

And that's absolutely true.

But it almost takes a minute for the song to be like, put this drink down.

Oh no.

Yeah.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Do you really think I know we're talking metaphorically here, but do you really think of it as another organic entity that you guys are interacting with?

LAURA LEE OCHOA: The song?

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Yeah.

LAURA LEE OCHOA: Oh yeah.

MARK SPEER: Yeah, Big time.

LAURA LEE OCHOA: Oh yeah.

MARK SPEER: When you're in love with someone, like really in love with someone, that's what this is.

When the song is there, it's not just three of us, you know, it's the whole thing.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM (voice-over): Khruangbin's success has ushered in a wave of other bands seeking to capitalize on this style.

Like Glass Beams, Arc Du Soleil and Yuuf, each offering their own take on this moody guitar driven genre.

Though Khruangbin is known for their musicality, there's also that pretty unusual name.

It's a Thai word that sort of means airplane.

And it is a tough one for even diehard fans to pronounce.

WOMAN: I was calling it like Kronga B Carabin.

MAN: Kurring bing.

MAN: Carbin.

Krabin.

MAN: Carbin.

Karabin.

WOMAN: Crabin.

MAN: I went on Google so many times for the pronounce WOMAN: Khruangbin.

MAN: Karagbin.

MAN: I think I'm saying it right.

Karangabing.

Is that right?

Karangabin.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: What's the name of this band again?

WOMAN: Khruangbin.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: You got it.

Given your guys success, did you ever think maybe we should name our band a more pronounceable word?

MARK SPEER: Well, we can't change it now.

LAURA LEE OCHOA: We wanted the website domain to not be taken.

MARK SPEER: Yeah.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: What was the genesis of it?

LAURA LEE OCHOA: Part of it.

MARK SPEER: You can't call your band something like, you know, the shoes.

I mean they're great too.

But if you start like Googling the shoes, you're going to get a bunch of shoes.

You know, type in the first four letters of Our band name.

You're going to get us and Khrushchev.

LAURA LEE OCHOA: Yeah, that's it.

MARK SPEER: And he hasn't put out a record in years, so we're good.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Bombed.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM (voice-over): Even though they do occasionally layer vocals into their songs, almost always sung together, Khruangbin's essential sound is a trio of instrumentalists.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Do you think that there's something distinct about listening to just instrumental music that resonates with people differently than music that is more filled with identifiable lyrics and words and sounds?

LAURA LEE OCHOA: It's like the international language.

I mean, I think there's that part of it.

DONALD JOHNSON: That's something that we discovered early on when we were traveling throughout different countries that spoke different languages that we didn't speak.

We could just get on stage and play.

And it still works.

MARK SPEER: It allows the listener to create their own environment.

Doesn't tell you what you're supposed to feel or where you're supposed to be.

LAURA LEE OCHOA: I think it's also when there's not the human touchstone of a voice, I think it's slightly more challenging, but I think it's a challenge that people enjoy.

They have to get over that initial hump of being like, okay, I don't speak this language.

I don't know anyone at this party.

It makes you have to, like, intentionally listen and connect, and I think that can be really moving.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM (voice-over): Sometimes, though, their fans can't help but sing along, even if the words aren't there.

DONALD JOHNSON: This beautiful moment that we had once in Columbus, Ohio, early on, were playing Derncalle, and the entire room started singing Mark's guitar melody.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Wow.

DONALD JOHNSON: Didn't have words.

It was just da, da at the top of their lungs.

MARK SPEER: They were going off too.

DONALD JOHNSON: It was amazing.

No words, just people singing along with the melody.

And that's all you needed.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM (voice-over): For those other fans wanting to sing along with Khruangbin's tour, the band will be back in the U.S. later this month.

For PBS News Weekend, I'm William Brangham.

JOHN YANG: Now online with the CDC in turmoil and fall approaching, we give you helpful tips on where and how to get COVID vaccinations.

All that and more is on our website, PBS.org/NewsHour.

And that is PBS News Weekend for this Saturday.

I'm John Yang.

For all of my colleagues, thanks for joining us.

See you tomorrow.