GAUTAM: I'’M GAUTAM MUKUNDA .

TONIGHT ON GREATER BOSTON, THE U.S. IS SENDING ANOTHER $1 BILLION IN AID TO UKRAINE, BUT WILL IT BE ENOUGH TO HOLD OFF RUSSIA?

WITH REPUBLICAN SENTIMENTS ON U.S. SUPPORT FALTERING, WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE THE COUNTRY LONG-TERM?

PLUS THE LAWYER WHO PROSECUTED WHITEY BULGER JOINS ME ON DONALD TRUMP'’S PROSECUTION IN GEORGIA AND HOW THE FORMER PRESIDENT'’S CASE IS SHAPING UP SO FAR.

AFTER A YEAR AND A HALF OF ALL OUT WAR, HOW IS UKRAINE HOLDING UP AGAINST RUSSIA?

U.S. OFFICIALS HAVE BEEN PAINTING A PROMISING PICTURE AS THEY ANNOUNCED PLANS TO SEND ANOTHER $1 BILLION WORTH OF EIGHT TO THE COUNTRY, FOUR MONTHS INTO HER LATEST PUSH AGAINST VLADIMIR PUTIN'’S TROOPS.

>> WE HAVE SEEN GOOD PROGRESS IN THE COUNTEROFFENSIVE.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT UKRAINE HAS WHAT IT NEEDS NOT ONLY TO SUCCEED IN THE COUNTEROFFENSIVE, BUT HAS WHAT IT NEEDS FOR THE LONG-TERM.

GAUTAM: BUT EVEN WITH THE EXTRA SUPPORT, HOW STRONG ARE UKRAINE'’S PROSPECTS REALLY?

TO DISCUSS I AM JOINED BY CAROL SAIVETZ, A SENIOR ADVISOR FOR M.I.T.

SECURITY AND A RESEARCHER AT HARVARD AND THE HARVARD UKRAINIAN RESEARCH INSTITUTE.

THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY.

CAROL: THANK YOU.

GAUTAM: GIVE US YOUR HIGH-LEVEL ASSESSMENT, HOW IS THE UKRAINIAN COUNTEROFFENSIVE GOING?

WE ARE HEARING EVERYTHING FROM DISASTROUSLY TO VERY WELL.

CAROL: I DON'’T THINK IT IS DISASTROUS BUT I DON'’T THINK IT IS BLOOMING EITHER.

FROM WHAT YOU ARE READING, AND YOU ARE PROBABLY READING THE SAME THINGS I AM, I THINK THE UKRAINIANS ARE MAKING A MODICUM OF PROGRESS IN THE SOUTH, AND APPARENTLY THEY HAVE BROKEN THROUGH AT SOME POINTS IN RUSSIAN DEFENSES.

THE ISSUE IS TO TRY TO CUT THE SUPPLY LINES DOWN TO AND FROM CRIMEA.

THE RUSSIANS MEANTIME SEEM TO HAVE MADE INCREMENTAL PROGRESS IN THE NORTH NEAR BUCK MOVED -- NEAR BAKHMUT.

IT IS HARD TO JUDGE.

ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES YESTERDAY USED THE PHRASE "A BALANCE OF ATTRITION."

I KIND OF LIKE THAT.

I THINK WE ARE IN THIS FOR THE LONG HAUL, REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH MORE AID WE GIVE THEM AND REGARDLESS OF KIM JONG-UN'’S TRIP TO RUSSIA AND GETTING MORE ARTILLERY SHELLS.

GAUTAM: THIS DOESN'’T SEEM LIKE SOMETHING OUT OF THE FIRST WORLD WAR -- THIS DOES SEEM LIKE SOME THING HOW THE FIRST WORLD WAR.

CAROL: I AGREE AND THAT IS THE ANALOGY MOST ARE USING, ALTHOUGH IT IS A FIRST WORLD WAR WITH DRONES AND QUITMAN THAT DID NOT EXIST IN THE EARLY 1900S -- AND EQUIPMENT THAT DID NOT EXIST IN THE EARLY 1900S.

GAUTAM: IN THE FIRST WORLD WAR WE SAW ATTRITION UNTIL THE GERMAN COLLAPSE.

WARFARE TENDS TO BE STABLE UNTIL IT ISN'’T.

ARE THE UKRAINIANS PLANNING ON THE PROSPECT THAT IF THEY ARE ABLE TO SEVER RUSSIAN SUPPLY LINES THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO TRIGGER SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OR IS THE ASSUMPTION THAT THIS WILL GO ON?

CAROL: THERE ARE SEVERAL FACTORS.

ONE IS HOW QUICKLY THE UKRAINIAN ARMY CAN ASSIMILATE THE NEW TECHNOLOGY AND EQUIPMENT WE IN THE WEST ARE GIVING THEM.

I DON'’T KNOW AT WHAT POINT PUTIN WILL CRY UNCLE.

I DON'’T KNOW WHAT THAT POINT IS.

A LOT OF US ARE SPECULATING THAT IF UKRAINE CAN PUSH THEM BACK TO THE 2014 LINES, AFTER THE INITIAL ASSAULT ON UKRAINE, THAT MAYBE THERE WOULD BE A CHANCE FOR NEGOTIATION.

I READ TODAY THAT SOME OF THE RUSSIAN SOLDIERS ARE DESERTING AND THE RUSSIAN LINES MAY BE COLLAPSING, BUT I CAN'’T PROVE THAT.

WE JUST DON'’T KNOW.

I WOULD THINK UKRAINIAN MORALE IS MUCH HIGHER THAN THE RUSSIAN MORALE.

THAT WILL BE A BIG PIECE, BECAUSE THEY ARE DEFENDING THEIR HOME TERRITORY, THEY HAVE AID FROM CIVILIANS.

YOU HEAR STORIES ABOUT LITTLE OLD LADIES USING SMARTPHONES TO SAY WHEN THE DRONES OR MISSILES ARE COMING.

RUSSIA DOESN'’T HAVE THAT SUPPORT.

AT THE SAME TIME, WE ARE HEARING ABOUT UKRAINIAN DRONE ATTACKS IN VARIOUS AREAS IN RUSSIA, BASICALLY TO BRING THE WAR HOME, TO SHAKE UP THIS COMPLACENCY ON THE PART OF THE RUSSIAN POPULATION, AND TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY TOO CAN BE VULNERABLE.

GAUTAM: ASSUMING WESTERN SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE STAYS CONSTANT, IT SEEMS LIKE TIME WOULD BE ON THE UKRAINIAN'’S SIDE AS THE RUSSIAN DEFENSE INDUSTRIAL BASE CONTINUES TO ERODE.

IS THAT RIGHT?

CAROL: I DON'’T KNOW.

WHERE DO YOU FACTOR IN THAT THE IRANIANS AND RUSSIANS ARE COOPERATING ON DRONE TECHNOLOGY AND ARE SUPPOSEDLY HELPING RUSSIA BUILD A DRONE FACTORY?

HOW DO WE FACTOR IN THIS KIM JONG-UN TRIP?

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

HOW MUCH MATERIAL WILL THE NORTH KOREANS ACTUALLY PROVIDE TO THE RUSSIANS?

WILL THAT BE THE EDGE SOMEHOW?

WE KIND OF KNOW THEY ARE RUNNING OUT OF ARTILLERY SHELLS AND AMMUNITION, BUT IF NORTH KOREA STEPS UP IN A BIG WAY, HOW DO YOU QUELL THAT?

I HONESTLY DON'’T HAVE AN ANSWER.

GAUTAM: IT SAYS SOMETHING STRANGE ABOUT THE WORLD THAT RUSSIA IS DEPENDENT ON NORTH KOREAN SUPPLIES.

CAROL: ONE WOULD THINK THEY WOULD BE EMBARRASSED, BUT THOSE NARROW -- BUT THERE IS NO EMBARRASSMENT HERE.

GAUTAM: IF WESTERN SUPPORT STAYS CONSTANT, THAT IS THE BIG IF IN MY QUESTION.

EUROPEAN SUPPORT HAS BEEN MORE THAN MANY EXPECTED GOING INTO THE WAR.

AMERICAN SUPPORT, WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS PARTS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SEEMING TO OPPOSE IT, ALTHOUGH STRIKINGLY NOT REPUBLICAN VOTERS BUT SOME MEMBERS OF REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP SEEM TO BE DIALING BACK.

DO YOU ASSESS THAT AS A REAL THREAT TO CONTINUED AMERICAN SUPPORT?

CAROL: ULTIMATELY IT COULD BE.

WE ARE ABOUT TO HAVE A SHOWDOWN OVER NEXT YEAR'’S BUDGET.

ONE OF THE ISSUES IS HOW MUCH AID TO PROVIDE TO UKRAINE.

THERE IS THIS PIECE OF ME THAT THINKS THAT PUTIN THINKS IF HE HOLDS OUT LONG ENOUGH, TRUMP WILL BE REDIRECTED AND -- BE REELECTED AND PUTIN THEREFORE WINS.

THAT WOULD BE A TOUGH SHIFT, BUT IT'’S ALSO POSSIBLE.

GAUTAM: TO STEP AWAY FROM UKRAINE FOR A MOMENT, WHAT WOULD THAT SAY ABOUT AMERICA'’S POSITION IN THE WORLD, TO OUR ALLIES, IF THE UNITED STATES WERE TO WITHDRAW ITS SUPPORT BECAUSE OF A CHANGE IN ADMINISTRATION, OR SIMPLY BECAUSE OF REPUBLICAN OPPOSITION IN CONGRESS?

CAROL: I DON'’T THINK THE REPUBLICAN OPPOSITION IS STRONG ENOUGH YET TO SUNDER ALL THE AID WE ARE PROVIDING TO UKRAINE.

I THINK THERE IS A BIG FACTION IN THE SENATE CERTAINLY THAT WANTS TO CONTINUE SUPPORTING UKRAINE AND UNDERSTANDS HOW VALUABLE IT IS.

I THINK IT'’S THE SO-CALLED MAGA REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO TURN IT AROUND, BUT THAT IS IN OBEISANCE TO TRUMP AND EVERYTHING ELSE, BECAUSE TRUMP KEEPS TALKING ABOUT HOW HE WOULD DO EVERYTHING DIFFERENTLY AND HE SAYS THE WAR WOULD BE OVER IN A DAY.

WE ALL KNOW WHY THE WAR WOULD BE OVER IN A DAY.

GAUTAM: THE POLITICAL SCIENCE ON WARS IS MY ARE EITHER VERY SHORT OR VERY LONG.

WE HAVE CLEARLY PASSED THE VERY SHORT STAGE.

GOING FORWARD, WHAT ARE YOUR EXPECTATIONS?

ARE WE GOING TO SEE WORLD WAR I STYLE CONFLICT FOR THE NEXT TWO TO THREE YEARS?

THAT IS WHAT THE MODELS WOULD TELL YOU.

CAROL: I THINK AT LEAST THROUGH 2024.

I HESITATE TO PREDICT BEYOND THAT.

I DON'’T SEE ANYTHING AT THE MOMENT THAT IS ENTICING EITHER THE UKRAINIANS OR RUSSIANS TO THE NEGOTIATING TABLE, UNLESS THERE IS SOMETHING WE CAN'’T PREDICT AT THE MOMENT.

I CAN'’T SEE ZELENSKYY SAYING WE WILL COMPROMISE NOW AND THERE IS THIS BIG PUSH ON THE PART OF SOME PEOPLE TO FORCE HIM TO SAY IT'’S TIME TO NEGOTIATE.

I DON'’T SEE PUTIN, BECAUSE HE STAKED EVERYTHING ON IT, WANTING TO GIVE UP AT THIS POINT.

THAT IS WHY I SAID BEFORE, I DON'’T KNOW WHERE THAT LINE IS WHERE HE WOULD CRY UNCLE.

I THINK WE LEARNED A LOT FROM THE PRIGOZHIN EPISODE THAT THERE IS A LOT OF DISSATISFACTION WITH HOW THE MILITARY HAS BEEN CARRIED OUT, BUT THERE IS REPORTING THAT SOME OF THE OLIGARCHS ARE FUNNELING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO THE RUSSIAN MILITARY EFFORTS, SO THE SANCTIONS ARE WORKING SORT OF.

I DON'’T SEE ALL OF THEIR MONEY FLOWING INTO THE WAR EFFORT.

ONE THING TO WATCH FOR, IS THERE ANOTHER ROUND OF CONSCRIPTION AND HOW IS THAT RECEIVED BY THE GENERAL POPULATION?

THAT MAY TELL US ABOUT HOW LONG THE RUSSIAN WAR EFFORT WILL CONTINUE.

GAUTAM: WE SAW THIS RUSSIAN COUP THAT JUST EVAPORATED WITH PRIGOZHIN'’S DEATH.

WAS THAT A SIGN OF LARGER FISSURES IN THE RUSSIAN STATE, OR WAS IT JUST PUTIN HAVING A FEUD WITH HIS COOK?

CAROL: I DON'’T THINK IT WAS A COUP ATTEMPT.

THAT IS ONE THING I WOULD CORRECT YOU ON.

I THINK IT WAS AN ATTEMPT TO POINT OUT THAT IF -- TO PUSH OUT THE DEFENSE MINISTER.

I DON'’T THINK IT WAS A COUP AGAINST HIS FRIEND, SUPPORTIVELY, OF VLADIMIR PUTIN.

PRIGOZHIN HAD BEEN TALKING TRUTH TO POWER.

IT WAS KIND OF ALL THE LAST SEVERAL KILOGRAM MESSAGES -- TELEGRAM MESSAGES AND EVERYTHING ELSE, BASICALLY THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES, UKRAINE AND NATO ARE NOT PLANNING TO ATTACK US, IT IS A SHAM, AND THEIR KIDS ARE NOT GOING TO WAR.

I THINK THAT IS WHAT MADE HIM DANGEROUS TO PUTIN.

THE FACT THAT PUTIN WAITED FOR THE 24 HOURS OR WHATEVER IT WAS, EVEN AFTER THEY MOVED FURTHER, SHOWED THAT HE DID NOT QUITE KNOW WHAT TO DO AT FIRST.

HE WAS LIKE A DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS.

AFTERWARDS, PEOPLE BEGAN TO SAY IF HE WAS SO INDECISIVE, WHAT IS HE DOING?

THEN HE WAITED THE TWO MONTHS TO TAKE DOWN PRODUCTION'’S -- DOWN PRIGOZHIN'’S PLANE.

THAT IS MY THEORY.

GAUTAM: PEOPLE HAVE BANDIED ABOUT PUTIN BEING THIS GENIUS CHESS PLAYER, WHICH HAS NOT HELD UP WELL RIGHT NOW.

DO YOU EXPECT MORE EVENTS ON THE BATTLEFIELD, OR DO YOU EXPECT SOMETHING ELSE TO HAPPEN, WHETHER IT BE A RUSSIAN ESCALATION, INTERVENTION -- FURTHER INTERVENTION BY FOREIGN POWERS WITH GREATER CHINESE SUPPORT?

ARE WE ESSENTIALLY WAITING FOR THE SOLDIERS TO HAVE THEIR SAY?

CAROL: THAT IS A TOUGH QUESTION.

I THOUGHT YOU WOULD ASK A DIFFERENT QUESTION, ABOUT PUTIN'’S FATE.

I THINK THE TAKING DOWN OF THE PLANE WAS A SIGNAL TO OTHER PEOPLE WHO MIGHT'’VE HAD DOUBTS ABOUT PUTIN THAT HE'’S IN CHARGE AND DON'’T YOU DARE CROSS THE BOSS KIND OF THING.

I THINK HE HAS ALLAYED THE IMMEDIATE FEAR OF ANY KIND OF COUP AGAINST HIM.

AGAIN, I THINK THE ISSUE WILL BE THE MORALE OF THE SOLDIERS ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

IF THEY DECIDE THEY NEED MORE RECRUITS, CAN THEY DO ANOTHER MASSIVE CONSCRIPTION?

AND WILL 200,000 OR 300,000 PEOPLE WHO FLED RUSSIA YOUR AGO, WHAT WILL HAPPEN THE NEXT TIME -- A YEAR AGO, WHAT WILL HAPPEN THE NEXT TIME?

THOSE WERE THE BEST AND BRIGHTEST OF RUSSIAN SOCIETY.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN LONG-TERM FOR RUSSIAN SOCIETY AND ULTIMATELY SUPPORT FOR PUTIN AND THE REGIME HE'’S RUNNING?

GAUTAM: CAROL SAIVETZ, THANKS SO MUCH.

THE STAGE IS NEARLY SET FOR THE TRIAL AGAINST FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP AND 18 CO-DEFENDANTS FOR ATTEMPTING TO STEAL THE 2020 ELECTION IN GEORGIA.

PRELIMINARY HEARINGS HAVE ALREADY BEGUN AND PROSECUTORS ARE HOPING FOR A FOUR MONTH LONG TRIAL WITH MORE THAN 150 WITNESSES.

TRUMP AND EACH OF HIS 18 CO-DEFENDANTS ARE ALL FACING RICO CHARGES.

NAMED AFTER THE RACKETEER AND CORRUPT ORGANIZATIONS ACT, MEANT TO AFTER GANG LEADERS AND MOB BOSSES.

WHAT GOES INTO A RICO CASE AND HOW IS THE ONE AGAINST TRUMP SHAPING UP SO FAR?

I AM JOINED BY BRIAN KELLY, A FORMER ATTORNEY WITH THE DOJ WHO PROSECUTED WHITEY BULGER UNDER RICO CHARGES.

GOOD AFTERNOON.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

THANKS TO DONALD TRUMP, THE AVERAGE AMERICAN PRESIDENT IS NOW FACING TWO INDICTMENTS, ALTHOUGH I THINK THEY ARE A BIT CONCENTRATED AT THE TAIL.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US THAT SINCE RICO IS A WORD THAT MOST OF US ONLY ENCOUNTER IN THE MOVIES, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO SAY HE'’S FACING RICO CHARGES?

BRIAN: RICO IS AN ACRONYM, THE ENTIRE NAME OF THE STATUTE.

IT WAS PASSED FEDERALLY IN THE LATE 60'’S.

SOON THEREAFTER, MULTIPLE STATES PASSED COPYCAT LAWS PATTERNED AFTER THE FEDERAL RICO STATUTE.

IT'’S DESIGNED TO BE A VERY BROAD STATUTE THAT THE PROSECUTORS CAN USE TO GO AFTER IT.

ORIGINALLY IT WAS FOR MAFIA CASES, BUT IT HAS BEEN UTILIZED SINCE THEN IN A VARIETY OF CONTEXTS.

THAT IS ONE OF THE BASES FOR PROSECUTING WHITEY BULGER YEARS BACK.

THAT WAS ONE DEFENDANT AND IT TOOK TWO MONTHS.

THE RICO STATUTE ITSELF IS A VERY POWERFUL WEAPON FOR THE PROSECUTORS BECAUSE IT IS VERY BROAD AND THEY CAN PRESENT EVIDENCE THAT THEY MIGHT OTHERWISE NOT BE ABLE TO USE AT A TRIAL.

THEY HAVE TO PROVE THERE IS AN ENTERPRISE.

AN ENTERPRISE, IT CAN BE IBM.

JUST BECAUSE IT IS AN ENTERPRISE DOES NOT MEAN IT IS SINISTER.

IT CAN ALSO BE A MAFIA FAMILY.

PROSECUTORS HERE WILL HAVE TO PROVE THAT SOMEHOW THIS GROUP OF 19 PEOPLE FORMED SOME SORT OF POLITICAL ENTERPRISE.

BUT THAT DOES NOT END THE OBLIGATIONS.

THEY THEN HAVE TO SHOW THAT THIS ENTERPRISE AND THE PEOPLE INVOLVED AGREED TO TWO OR MORE RACKETEERING ACTS.

RACKETEERING ACTS ARE SIMPLY CRIMES.

THE RICO STATUTES, WHETHER IT IS FEDERAL OR STATE, THERE ARE A BUNCH OF CRIMES THAT CAN BE CONSIDERED RCIICO ACTS, OR PREDICATE CRIMES.

NOT ALL OF THEM COUNT AS A FEDERAL OR STATE RACKETEERING ACT.

IN GEORGIA IT IS ACTUALLY BROADER THAN THE FEDERAL RICO CHARGE, AND THERE IS MORE CRIMES THAT COUNT SO TO SPEAK.

THE CLASSIC ONES ARE LIKE EXTORTION, DRUG DEALING, EVEN MURDER, WHICH WERE ONE OF SEVERAL RICO PREDICATES AGAINST BULGER.

IT IS A BROAD STATUTE THE PROSECUTORS ARE USING, AND IT ALLOWS THEM TO PRESENT MORE EVIDENCE THAN THEY OTHERWISE WOULD.

IF YOU JUST HAVE A TAX EVASION CHARGE, YOU CAN'’T START BRINGING IN THIS EVIDENCE THAT IS NOT RELEVANT TO THE CHARGE.

WITH A RICO CHARGE, THE PROSECUTION HAS AN ENORMOUS ADVANTAGE BECAUSE YOU CAN THROW A LOT OF STUFF AGAINST THE WALL AND SAY, LISTEN JUDGE, IT IS ADMISSIBLE BECAUSE IT PERTAINS TO THE ENTERPRISE OR THE RACKETEERING ACTS, AND THERE IS ALL THESE DIFFERENT LEGAL TESTS OF WHAT IS ENTERPRISE.

THAT IS A LONG ANSWER, BUT THAT'’S WHAT IT IS.

GAUTAM: THE IDEA, IF I UNDERSTAND, IS IF YOU ARE PART OF THIS CORRUPT ENTERPRISE, EVEN IF YOU DID NOT COMMIT THE SPECIFIC ACTS BEING CHARGED TO A NUMBER MEMBER OF THE ENTERPRISE, YOU CAN STILL BE CRIMINALLY LIABLE.

BRIAN: CORRECT.

THE ENTERPRISE ITSELF DOES NOT HAVE TO BE CORRUPT.

IT IS THE PATTERN OF RACKETEERING THAT HAS TO BE CRIMINAL.

THERE IS A CONSPIRACY RACKETEERING AND WHAT IS CALLED A SUBSTANTIVE RACKETEERING.

IF YOU ARE CHARGED WITH SUBSTANTIVE RICO, YOU YOURSELF HAVE TO COMMIT TWO MORE -- TWO OR MORE.

HERE I BELIEVE THERE IS A CONSPIRACY STATUTE.

THAT IS EASIER FOR PROSECUTORS BECAUSE THE DEFENDANT JUST HAS TO AGREE THAT SOMEONE IN THE ENTERPRISE WAS GOING TO COMMIT TWO OR MORE PREDICATE ACTS.

A DEFENDANT DOES NOT NECESSARILY HAVE TO COMMIT TWO OR MORE, HE HAS TO AGREE THAT SOMEBODY ELSE IS.

THESE RACKETEERING ACTS CAN BE WIRE FRAUD, MAIL FRAUD, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

IN THE GEORGIA STATUTE, THERE IS POLITICALLY RELATED CRIMES BEING ALLEGED.

I DON'’T KNOW THE PREDICATE ACTS ALLEGED IN GEORGIA, BUT IF IT'’S A CONSPIRACY CHARGE, YOU YOURSELF DO NOT HAVE TO COMMIT TWO OR MORE, BUT SOMEBODY DOES AND YOU HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT IT AND AGREE TO IT.

GAUTAM: DOES THIS POSE CONSTITUTIONAL PROBLEMS?

IS THAT A DEFENSE DONALD TRUMP IS LIKELY TO USE?

BRIAN: THE DEFENSE WILL ALWAYS TRY TO PRESERVE LEGAL ISSUES IN THE EVENT OF A CONVICTION.

THIS STUFF HAS BEEN VETTED AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL.

THE U.S. SUPREME COURT MANY TIMES, THIS IDEA THAT CONSPIRACY CHARGES IS EASIER TO PROVE, IT JUST IS.

THAT IS JUST A MATTER OF LAW.

IT IS UNLIKELY TO BE SOMETHING THAT THE DEFENDANTS CAN EFFECTIVELY ATTACK ON APPEAL.

GAUTAM: WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE CASE AGAINST DONALD TRUMP, YOU ARE NOT PART OF IT BUT YOU HAVE LOOKED AT IT, DOES IT MEET YOUR TEST AS A POSSIBLE RICO PROSECUTION?

BRIAN: IT IS QUESTIONABLE HERE.

IT FEELS LIKE THEY ARE PILING ON WITH ALL THESE OTHER CASES.

THE FACT THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO HAVE A TRIAL RIGHT ON SUPER TUESDAY FOR 19 DEFENDANTS SEEMS A LITTLE CRAZY HONESTLY.

AS I SAID, A ONE DEFENDANT RICO TRIAL INVOLVING WHITEY BULGER TOOK TWO MONTHS.

IT IS INCONCEIVABLE THEY CAN DO ALL 19 DEFENDANTS, INCLUDING THE EX-PRESIDENT, IN ONE COURTROOM IN MARCH OF THIS YEAR.

IT TOOK US ALMOST TWO YEARS TO GET BULGER TO TRIAL.

BECAUSE THE RICO STATUTE IS SO BROAD, THE DEFENSE IS ALLOWED TO GO THROUGH THE EVIDENCE AND BE PREPARED, SO IT IS EXTRAORDINARY TO SAY WE WILL HAVE A 19% TRIAL SIX MONTHS FROM NOW -- 19 PERSON TRIAL SIX MONTHS FROM NOW.

THAT SEEMS A LITTLE ARTIFICIALLY RUSHED.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT IS POLITICAL, THE TIMING OF THE TRIAL.

WE SHALL SEE.

IT'’S UP TO THE JURY TO DECIDE WHO IS CREDIBLE IN THE COURTROOM AND WHO ISN'’T AND HOW IS THE EVIDENCE GOING TO HOLD UP UNDER CROSS-EXAMINATION.

THIS IS JUST ARGUING ABOUT AN ELECTION LIKE OTHERS HAVE DONE IS NOT A CRIME, BLAH BLAH BLAH.

WHO KNOWS HOW THAT WILL PLAY IN FRONT OF A GEORGIA JURY.

GAUTAM: ONE PROBLEM TRUMP HAS HAD IN HIS ABILITY -- HAD IN PREVIOUS TRIALS IN HIS INABILITY TO HOLD COUNSEL.

BRIAN: I THINK A GOOD ATTORNEY IS CRUCIAL IN EVERY CASE, BUT CERTAINLY SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

THIS IS HIGH-STAKES, SUPER HIGH-STAKES.

THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS WATCHING.

HONESTLY, I DON'’T KNOW WHO IS COUNSEL IN THAT CASE, BUT HE IS FIGHTING FOR HIS LIBERTY SO I WOULD ASSUME YOU WOULD HAVE TO GET SOME TALENTED DEFENSE ATTORNEYS TO ASSIST.

GAUTAM: WHAT WOULD BE -- DO YOU THINK THERE IS A DANGER OF THIS STATUTE BEING USED IN OTHER POLITICAL DISPUTES AS SORT OF THE TRUMP DEFENDERS ARE PROCLAIMING?

OR IS THIS UNLIKELY TO CAUSE SLIPPERY SLOPE PROBLEMS?

BRIAN: THIS PARTICULAR STATUTE, IT SEEMS LIKE THE FACTS ARE PRETTY UNIQUE HERE.

I THINK THERE IS ALWAYS A BIT OF A DANGER.

THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE USED TO HAVE A POLICY THAT AS YOU GET CLOSER TO AN ELECTION, YOU CANNOT INDICT A POLITICAL CASE BECAUSE YOU DON'’T WANT TO BE ACCUSED OF AFFECTING THE ELECTION.

THE PROBLEM COMES IN, IF YOU DON'’T INDICT AND YOU HAVE EVIDENCE OF CORRUPTION, THAT'’S ANOTHER WAY OF AFFECTING AN ELECTION, BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT EXPOSED IT.

IT GETS TRICKY FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ON WHEN TO INDICT.

I KNOW THERE IS A LOT OF COMPLAINT ABOUT IT, WHY WASN'’T HILLARY INDICTED?

AT A CERTAIN POINT -- IN THE OLD DAYS IT WOULD BE LET'’S NOT PUT THE COUNTRY THROUGH THESE CRIMINAL CASES, BUT NOW CERTAIN LY UNIQUE SET OF FACTS.

THERE IS RISK THAT IN THE FUTURE MAYBE IT WON'’T BE A DISTRICT ATTORNEY IN A BIG CITY, MAY BE ABLE BE SOMEONE IN RURAL AMERICA WHO INDICTS A DEMOCRAT.

THEN IT WOULD BECOME KIND OF AN UNFORTUNATE BACK-AND-FORTH USING THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES.

I'’M NOT SAYING THAT IS HAPPENING HERE, I'’M JUST SAYING THAT IS A RISK.

GAUTAM: IN YOUR JUDGMENT AS AN EXPERIENCED PROSECUTOR, PRESENTING WITH THIS SET OF FACTS, GIVEN IT IS UNIQUE TO HAVE THE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.

THREATEN THE SECRETARY OF STATE WITH CRIMINAL PROSECUTION IF HE DOES NOT FIND VOTES.

IS THAT SOMETHING WHERE YOU WOULD CALL TO PROSECUTE?

BRIAN: I WOULD HAVE TO KNOW MORE FACTS.

I HAVE HEARD FACTS BACK-AND-FORTH.

I WOULD HAVE TO REALLY STUDY IT.

YOU HAVE TO ALSO CONSIDER, WHAT ELSE IS OUT THERE?

IS IT REALLY NECESSARY TO HAVE A STATE CASE WHEN YOU HAVE TWO SERIOUS FEDERAL CASES?

THE NEW YORK CASE IS PRETTY WEAK AND SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT IN MY OPINION, BUT THESE TWO FEDERAL CASES ARE SERIOUS.

YOU HAVE A FAIRLY GARDEN-VARIETY OBSTRUCTION CHARGE IN FLORIDA THAT APPEARS DIFFICULT ON ITS FACE.

AND NOW YOU HAVE A FEDERAL CASE IN D.C. AS WELL.

HOW MANY CASES DO YOU NEED TO HOLD SOMEONE ACCOUNTABLE?

THERE ARE DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS.

IT'’S JUST LIKE WITH THE DRUG CASE, BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL HAVE DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS AND THEY CAN BOTH BRING A CASE.

USUALLY THE FEDERAL SIDE BRINGS IT AND HOLDS PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE.

I DON'’T KNOW HOW MUCH DISCUSSION THERE IS BETWEEN THESE DIFFERENT SERVANTS.

GAUTAM: LAST QUESTION, HOW CONCERNED WOULD YOU BE ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF A SELF-PARDON?

BRIAN: WELL, I DON'’T KNOW.

I DON'’T EVEN KNOW IF THAT IS CONSTITUTIONALLY PERMISSIBLE.

I WOULD HAVE TO RESEARCH IT IF YOU COULD SELF-PARDON ON A FEDERAL CASE.

THAT IS A GOOD POINT.

THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED.

IT'’S NOT LIKE THE STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS IS GOING.

GEORGIA CAN SIT BACK AND WAIT.

IF THAT IS REALLY THEIR CONCERN, THEY CAN PULL THE TRIGGER LATER ON THE CASE IF THEY WANT TO.

GAUTAM: THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US HERE TODAY.

BRIAN: ABSOLUTELY.

GAUTAM: ON HOT DAYS LIKE THIS WE CAN FIND OURSELVES LOOKING FOR THE COOL SHADE OF A TREE.

THAT IS EASIER TO FIND IN SOME NEIGHBORHOODS THAN OTHERS.

TOWN TO TOWN, AND EVEN SOMETIMES STREET TO STREET THERE ARE WIDE DISPARITIES IN THE NUMBER OF TREES.

ADVOCACY GROUP "SPEAK FOR THE TREES" TOOK US ON A TREE WALK TO SEE FIRSTHAND WHERE WE NEED MORE OF THEM.

LET'’S TAKE A LOOK.

>> I WAS KIND OF DISAPPOINTED BECAUSE ...IN MY COMPLEX, THEY TOOK ALL THE TREES DOWN.

AND I'’M ASKING THEM, "“CAN WE HAVE OUR TREES BACK BECAUSE WE BREATHE BETTER?

"” AND I THINK IT WAS MORE CHEAPER TO GET RID OF THE TREES RATHER THAN TRIM THEM.

♪ >> SO LAST WEEK WE DID OUR FIRST TREE WALK HERE IN CODMAN SQAURE AND WE EXPLORED WEST OF WASHINGTON STREET.

TODAY, WE'’RE GOING TO EXPLORE EAST OF WASHINGTON STREET.

WE'’RE GOING TO CHECK OUT WHERE THERE ARE TREES AND WHERE THERE ARE NOT TREES.

♪ TREES ARE INEQUITABLY DISTRIBUTED IN EVERY MAJOR URBAN AREA.

THERE'’S A CORRELATION BETWEEN TREE CANOPY COVERAGE AND HISTORIC AND CONTINUED RACIST PRACTICES LIKE REDLINING, LIKE DISINVESTMENT, WHITE FLIGHT.

♪ >> WE END UP DISTRIBUTING AIR CONDITIONERS BECAUSE IT'’S SO HOT, BECAUSE EVERYONE'’S LIKE ON THIS HEAT ISLAND.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF CONCRETE.

>> OH, LOOK AT THIS, THIS IS INTERESTING!

YOU SEE THIS LETTER HERE?

THAT'’S THE LETTER T. FOR TREE.

WHICH MEANS THAT THEY'VE DETERMINED THAT THEY'’RE GOING TO PLANT A TREE HERE.

WHETHER IT'’S GOING TO BE TOMORROW OR NEXT YEAR IS ANYONE'’S GUESS.

>> SO THIS IS WHAT WE CALL A TREE DESERT.

AND IN A STREET LIKE THIS, YOU'’LL HAVE SUMMER TEMPERATURES ANYWHERE FROM 5 TO 10 DEGREES HOTTER IN THE DAY.

AND THESE NEIGHBORHOODS ACTUALLY DON'’T COOL DOWN AS MUCH AT NIGHT BECAUSE THE ASPHALT HAS ABSORBED ALL THAT SUNLIGHT DURING THE DAY.

♪ >> THIS IS MOULTRIE STREET.

AND ON THIS SIDE OF MOULTRIE, THERE ARE NO TREES.

AND IF YOU LOOK TO THE RIGHT -- IT JUST SAYS A LOT ABOUT HOW WE CARE ABOUT COMMUNITIES THAT DON'’T HAVE A LOT.

I THINK IT SAYS A LOT ABOUT AGENCY OF WHEN YOU DO HAVE A HOME AND YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE FLEXIBILITY TO DECIDE WHAT YOUR YARD LOOKS LIKE OR IF YOU WANT TO PLANT A TREE, WHERE IF YOU LIVE IN PUBLIC HOUSING OR IN AREAS WHERE THERE ISN'’T THAT KIND OF SAY.

>> THERE USED TO BE A TREE RIGHT THERE.

NOW IT'’S A PIECE OF ASPHALT BLOCKING THAT WHOLE AREA.

♪ >> IT CAN'’T BE JUST THE CITY.

IT CAN'’T BE JUST THE STATE.

IT HAS TO BE EVERYONE LITERALLY ROLLING UP THEIR SLEEVES, ADVOCATING FOR TREES, ADVOCATING FOR THEIR PRESERVATION.

GAUTAM: THAT IS IT FOR TONIGHT.

BUT COME BACK TOMORROW FOR "TALKING POLITICS."

ADAM REILLY AND HIS PENA WILL DIG INTO THE LATEST ON THE BOSTON'’S CITY COUNCIL ELECTIONS AFTER A YEAR OF CONTROVERSY.

PROPOSALS CLEARED A HURDLE TO BE ON THE BALLOT THIS STATEFUL.

WHICH ONES COULD WE EXPECT TO VOTE ON?

THE HEAD OF ROXBURY COMMUNITY COLLEGE ON THE IMPACT OF THE STATES NEW FREE TUITION PROGRAM FOR ADULTS 25 AND OLDER.

THAT AND MORE TOMORROW AT 7:00.

I AM GAUTAM MUKUNDA.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND GOOD NIGHT.

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