>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>>> THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION OF DONNYBROOK.

GREAT TO HAVE YOU ABOARD AND ON THE SECOND HALF WHICH WE CALL NEXT UP, WE'LL TALK TO DR. KEN HALLER, PEDIATRICIAN, CARDINAL GLENNON CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL, THE TOPIC KIDS AND COVID.

LET'S MEET THE PANELISTS WHO WILL DISCUSS AND ARGUE THE WEEK'S TOP TOPICS FROM OUR REGION.

SHE'S THE NEWS DIRECTOR FOR THE BIG 550 KTRS AND THE COHOST THE JENNIFER AND WENDY SHOW.

WENDY WIESE.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MR. BILL McCLELLAN FROM YOUR ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH AND STLTODAY.COM.

JOINING US FROM RAWSTORY.COM, THE RIVERFRONT TIMES AND THE BIG 550 KTRS WHERE HE HOLDS COURT EVENINGS, MR. RAY HARTMANN, AND WE HAVE THE NEWS EDITOR AND SPORTS COLUMNIST WITH THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN, MR. ALVIN REID.

WHY START WITH YOU THIS WEEK, WILLIAM.

THE CHIEF OF POLICE, JOHN HAYDEN, ANNOUNCED HE'S GOING TO RETIRE NEXT YEAR AFTER 35-PLUS YEARS OF SERVICE FOR THE CITY.

A COUPLE OF THINGS HERE.

MAYBE YOU COULD ASSESS HIS RECORD.

LAST YEAR, WE DID HAVE THE HIGHEST HOMICIDE RATE IN THE CITY IN THE LAST 50 YEARS, AND THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER ASSORTED ISSUES.

WHEN YOU'RE PAPER ANNOUNCED HIS RESIGNATION TODAY OR HIS RETIREMENT, NEXT TO IT WAS A STORY THAT DOWNTOWN BUSINESSES ARE THINKING ABOUT MOVING OUT BECAUSE OF CRIME, BUT ALSO, THERE'S A QUESTION SHOULD WE HAVE A NATIONAL SEARCH FOR HIS REPLACEMENT?

MAYOR TISHAURA JONES SAID THAT'S WHAT SHE'LL CONDUCT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THE PROBLEMS IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS ARE BEYOND WHAT ONE PERS PERSON, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN BLAME CHIEF HAYDEN, HE TRIED, BUT THERE WASN'T MUCH HE COULD DO.

AS FAR AS THE NEXT CHIEF, I THINK I'M IN THE MINORITY WHEN I SAY I FAVOR AN IN-HOUSE CANDIDATE, SOMEBODY WHO'S ALREADY IN THE DEPARTMENT, SOMEBODY WHO UNDERSTANDS THE LAY OF THE LAND.

TOO OFTEN WHEN YOU HAVE THESE NATIONAL SEARCHES TO FIND A BRIGHT, ENERGETIC YOUNG PERSON OR OLDER PERSON, YOU END UP WITH SOMEBODY WHO INTERVIEWS WELL AND THEN THEY GET TO THE JOB AND THEY DON'T KNOW WHO TO TRUST, THEY DON'T -- YOU REINVENT THE WHEEL.

I'D FAVOR AN IN-HOUSE PROMOTION MAYBE LIKE THEY DID WITH CHIEF HAYDEN WHERE WE HAVE A NATIONAL SEARCH AND THEN, OH, MONTHS LATER, WE'RE GOING TO PICK THE IN-HOUSE CANDIDATE.

>> LOOK, I WOULD LIKE TO RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH FELLOW FOUNDER.

FIRST OF ALL, YOU CAN DO JUST THAT.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A NATIONAL SEARCH.

YOU HAVE TO GIVE YOURSELF A CHANCE IF YOU'RE THE MAYOR, IF YOU'RE THE CITY IN GENERAL, TO CAST AS WIDE A NET AS POSSIBLE AND THEN IF YOU FIND THAT YOU HAVE -- I DON'T THINK THE TWO ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

I THINK YOU CERTAINLY INCLUDE TOP CANDIDATES IN THAT PROCESS, LIKE IN THE CASE OF JOHN HAYDEN, WHO I THINK -- I AGREE WITH BILL.

I THOUGHT IF YOU WANT A MICROCOSM OF WHAT THE NEXT CHIEF IS UP AGAINST, LOOK AT THE CLASSLESS STATEMENT, THIS AWFUL STATEMENT THAT JEFF ROORDA MADE, THE BUSINESS MANAGER OF THE UNION MADE, JUST NASTY AS HE COULD BE, TRYING TO BLAME EVERYTHING ON JOHN HAYDEN.

IT'S BECAUSE OF THAT WHITE POLICE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE JOB FOR ANYONE TO BRING IN.

IT'S A VERY COMPLEX JOB AND I WILL SAY THIS.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THEY NEED TO LOOK AT AND ST. LOUIS COUNTY NEEDS TO LOOK AT IS SOMEONE WHO CAN EMPATHIZE AND COMMUNICATE WITH THE PUBLIC THROUGH AND WITH VARIOUS CONSTITUENCIES THROUGH THE MEDIA.

IT'S AN IMPORTANT -- AND I DON'T MEAN THEY HAVE TO BE FUN ON CAMERA.

THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE AND THAT SEEMS TO BE A SKILL SET THAT -- >> HANG ON A SECOND.

THAT REMINDS ME OF THIS TWEET THAT KIM BELL OF THE POST-DISPATCH HAD THIS WEEK WHERE SHE POINTED OUT SHE WAS LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ON A CRIMINAL SUSPECT AND ACCIDENTALLY THE MEDIA AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT SENT HER AN EMAIL INTENDED FOR SOMEBODY ELSE OBVIOUSLY AND IT SAID, SHOULD WE IGNORE HER, TELL HER TO FILE A FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST, OR ANOTHER OPTION?

THAT'S HOW SHE WAS DEALT WITH.

>> AND THAT'S HOW JOB -- HOW JOHN HAYDEN, THE WORST PART IN MY MIND OF HIS TENURE WAS HIS INACCESSIBILITY AND THE FACT THAT HE WAS INCOMMUNICADO AND THE SAME WITH MARY BARTON.

IT'S A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF THE JOB.

>> BUT THAT WASN'T GOING ON JUST AFTER CHIEF HAYDEN STEPPED IN.

THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR A LONG.

>> OH, DAN ISOM WAS AMAZING AT THAT, CLARENCE HARMON WAS GREAT AT THAT, TIM FITCH WAS GREAT AT THAT IN THE COUNTY.

>> NO, THEY WENT.

THEY GOT UP AND SAID THAT SAME OL' RIG GA NA ROLE.

BILL -- RIG BA MA ROLE.

BILL, I'M TELLING YOU, YOU DESCRIBED THE CANDIDATE I WANT.

I WANT SOME YOUNGER, BRASHER LADY OR GENTLEMAN THAT HAS NEVER BEEN TO ST. LOUIS.

THE FIRST TIME THEY HAVE THEIR PERSON IN-PERSON INTERVIEW AT FIRST TIME THEY SET FOOT ON IN CITY AND THEY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT JEFF ROORDA BUT I CAN CONTROL THIS CITY BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY HIRED ME TO DO.

THIS OLD GUARD IS OVER.

>> DON'T LOOK NOW, BUT MAYOR JONES IS PART OF THE OLD GUARD.

SHE ACTUALLY IS.

>> I'M TALKING TO HER JUST LIKE I'M TALKING TO EVERYBODY ELSE.

WE NEED SOMEBODY WHO LITERALLY WILL COME IN AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT WENT ON BEFORE?

I DON'T CARE.

I DON'T CARE.

I DON'T CARE WHO YOUR DADDY IS, WHO YOUR GRANDDADDY IS -- >> AS LONG AS YOU HAVE TWO UNIONS -- >> I DON'T CARE IF WE GOT TWO UNIONS.

I DON'T CARE.

IF YOU'RE NOT DOING YOUR JOB, YOU'RE FIRED.

IF YOU'RE -- >> WELL, I WOULD HIRE ALVIN RIGHT NOW.

I MEAN, LISTENING TO THAT -- >> BUT THAT ISN'T -- LOOK, I LIKE PART WHATEVER YOU SAID, ALVIN.

I AGREE ABOUT SOMEBODY THAT THEY GOT TO HAVE A SENSE OF SECURITY.

I THINK YOUNGER MAKES SENSE FOR SURE, BUT DEFINITELY SOMEBODY WHO'S GOT -- AND I THINK THE IDEA OF HIRING SOMEBODY WITHOUT ANY ALLEGIANCES COMING IN IS GOOD.

>> YES, YOU HAVE TO -- REMEMBER, THEY STILL.

>> BUT YOU HAVE TO -- >> THEY STILL HAVE BOSSES.

>> IT IS NOT -- >> IT'S NOT WORKING.

WE'VE SEEN THE STORIES WHERE THE HOMICIDE DETECTIVES ARE OVERWORKED.

THEY HAVE TOO MANY CASES.

THEY HAVE -- WE CAN'T RECRUIT PEOPLE.

WE ALSO KNOW THERE'S TOO MANY WHITE SHIRTS AND NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE WALKING THE STREETS, OFFICERS, THAT IS.

WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE TWO COPS PER CAR, WE DON'T HAVE THAT.

BUT CHIEF HAYDEN HAD HIS HAYDEN RECTANGLE AND THAT DIDN'T WORK.

I THINK, BY THE WAY, SOMEONE HAS TO BE ACCOUNTABLE, SO IT MAY AS WELL BE THE POLICE CHIEF WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CRIME.

WHAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW IS NOT WORKING.

ALVIN IS RIGHT, WE NEED SOME OUTSIDER LIKE A BILL BRATTON OR SOMEBODY WHO CAN EFFECTIVELY ADMINISTER PUBLIC SAFETY TO COME INTO THIS TOWN BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WE HAVE HERE CAN'T DO IT.

>> I AGREE.

AND I'M FRIENDS WITH NO ONE.

I'M REALLY NOT FRIENDS WITH THE MAYOR'S OFFICE.

I DEFINITELY AIN'T FRIENDS WITH JEFF ROORDA.

I'M JUST -- JUST COME IN AND JUST SAY, NOW LISTEN -- >> ALL RIGHT, WELL WHAT -- >> I THINK CHIEF HAYDEN -- >> THERE'S A NEW SHERIFF IN TOWN.

THAT'S WHAT I WANT -- >> THAT'S A GOOD PHRASE.

>> WE ALREADY GOT A SHERIFF.

>> YEAH, WHY NOT.

>> WENDY, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT THAT I THOUGHT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A SHOCKER.

WHEN HE WAS ON OUR PROGRAM, BOB CLARK THE HEAD OF CLAYCO, WHICH IS A MAJOR CONSTRUCTION COMPANY NOT ONLY IN THE MIDWEST, BUT AROUND THE NATION, HE CRITICIZED THE EXPANSION OF THE CONVENTION CENTER AND, WELL, TURNS OUT HE HAS A PLAN OF HIS OWN.

AS YOU KNOW, THERE IS A $210 MILLION PROPOSAL TO EXPAND THE CONVENTION CENTER IN DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS.

BUT MR. CLARK WOULD WANT TO ALMOST QUADRUPLE IT, AN $800 MILLION EXPANSION.

IS THAT MONEY WELL SPENT?

>> IT'S INTERESTING WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS ON THE HEELS OF THE CRIME PROBLEM AND THAT DOESN'T HELP.

IF YOU SPEND $800 MILLION ON A CONVENTION CENTER WITH SOARING CRIME RATES AND A WORD OF MOUTH ISSUE, I'VE GOT PEOPLE -- I KNOW EVERYBODY ON THIS PANEL HAS HAD PEOPLE ASK THEM, WHEN YOU'RE OUT OF TOWN AND THEY FIND OUT YOU'RE FROM ST. LOUIS, IS CRIME REALLY AS BAD AS WE HEAR?

THAT'S THE KIND OF WORD OF MOUTH THAT YOU DON'T WANT, AND AN $800 MILLION CONVENTION CENTER ISN'T GOING TO CHANGE THAT.

BUT WHEN -- HE'S TALKING ABOUT -- HE DOES SEEM TO BE -- I MEAN, HE CERTAINLY IS OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THE FINANCING PART OF THIS $800 MILLION, DEMOLISH WHAT WE HAVE AND START ALL OVER GOTTEN.

HE'S SAYING THAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE MONEY CAN BE USED TOWARDS THE 800.

NOT SURE HOW MAYOR TISHAURA JONES WOULD FEEL ABOUT THAT.

HE'S SAYING THAT THE STATE OF MISSOURI, WHICH IS ALWAYS TO HAPPY TO HELP THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS, THAT THEY'LL STEP IN.

HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE NFL LAWSUIT OUTCOME AND ANY MONEY THAT WE MIGHT BE SEEING FROM THAT.

AND I APPRECIATE -- I DID APPRECIATE SOMETHING THAT HE SAID, THAT WE DON'T WANT TO BE THE WORLD CAPITAL OF MISSED OPPORTUNITY, AND I THINK SADLY THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BECOME.

BUT $800 MILLION WHEN YOU ALREADY HAVE A FIRM COMMITMENT OF 110 FROM THE COUNTY AND THE CITY, I SAY START SMALL, BUT I'M NOT BOB CLARK.

I'M NOT THE QUEEN OF A BILLION-DOLLAR CONSTRUCTION COMPANY, SO MAYBE WE SHOULD LISTEN TO HIM.

>> WELL, WE HAVE -- >> THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY.

>> WE HAD NO MONEY NO -- NO MONEY FOR A STADIUM AND THEN DIDN'T WE HAVE $1.3 BILLION FOR A STADIUM SUDDENLY?

LET'S GO BACK AND GET THAT MONEY.

NO, I DON'T THINK THIS NFL THING IS GOING TO NAY OUT AND WE'LL END UP HOLDING THE BAG ULTIMATELY, BUT IF FOR SOME REASON THE NFL, JERRY JONES, SAY JUST GO AWAY, WE'LL WRITE YOU A CHECK FOR $200 MILLION AND IT WAS DECIDED THAT MONEY WOULD GO DIRECTLY WITH THAT, YOU KNOW, 120 THEY'RE GOING TO DO ON THE CONVENTION CENTER, I WOULDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD DESIGNATION FOR THAT MONEY.

BUT LIKE YOU SAID, THAT'S WISHFUL THINKING.

THAT'S PIE IN THE SKY.

BUT I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH USING THAT MONEY FOR THAT BUILDING.

>> I WAS REMINDED OF THE MUSIC MAN, THAT 76 TROMBONES, YOU KNOW, THAT -- WHAT YOU NEED HERE IN RIVER CITY IS A HUGE CONVENTION CENTER.

>> YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH HAROLD HILL?

>> IT WAS FUN TO HAVE HIM ON OUR SHOW AND HE'S A VERY SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMAN, BUT I THOUGHT, I'M NOT SO SURE THIS IS REALLY WHERE WE OUGHT TO BE SPENDING ALL OF OUR MONEY.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY'RE DOING -- >> WE DON'T HAVE ANY -- >> THEY'RE COMPARING US TO NASHVILLE'S CONVENTION CENTER WHICH IS BIG AND IT'S OUT OF -- I GUESS IT'S JUST AN ENORMOUS BEAUTIFUL FACILITY, BUT THAT'S NOT THE ONLY REASON CONVENTIONEERS ARE GOING TO NASHVILLE AND NOT ST. LOUIS.

>> THAT'S TRUE.

>> NASHVILLE HAS ABOUT 30 OF THE TOP FNCHING ARTISTS IN THE -- PERFORMING ARTISTS IN THE WORLD THAT ARE LIVING THERE.

NAMES OF PEOPLE THAT ARE SELLING MILLIONS OF ALBUMS EVERY YEAR AND THEY HAVE AN EXTREMELY RENOVATED DOWNTOWN THAT'S VERY SAFE, WENDY, AND IT'S REALLY -- I MEAN, IT'S A HUGE DESTINATION FOR YOUNG PEOPLE.

IT'S NOT ST. LOUIS, AND JUST IF YOU BUILD IT, I JUST DON'T SEE ALL THESE CONVENTIONS SAYING, OH, LET'S NOT GO TO ORLANDO OR CHICAGO, LET'S GO TO ST. LOUIS.

>> CHARLIE, FIRST OF ALL, YOU ALWAYS LISTEN TO THE PARKWAY GUYS, I KEEP TRYING TO SAY THAT T BUT BOB CLARK, GOOD FOR HIM.

I MEAN, I DON'T -- >> I'M WITH ALVIN.

>> I DON'T BELIEVE WE COULD BE SPENDING MONEY WE DON'T HAVE THE NFL AND I'M NOT THERE YET, THINKING THAT THE MONEY IS GOING TO BE THERE EXACTLY, BUT GOOD FOR HIM TO THINK OUT OF THE BOX.

IT'S KIND OF SYMBOLIC THAT BOB CLARK IS SPENDING MORE OF HIS TIME NOW IN CHICAGO THAN HE IS IN ST. LOUIS BECAUSE HE'S SOMEBODY THAT IS THINKING -- >> OKAY -- >> -- OUT OF THE BOX A LITTLE AND YOU KNOW WHAT?

DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE.

I DO NOT WANT TO SEE ANOTHER WHITE ELEPHANT, YOU ALWAYS WANT TO BE CAREFUL, BUT YOU DO NOT WANT TO UNDERESTIMATE THE IMPORTANCE OF KEEPING UP TO DATE.

WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH A SECOND GENERATION OF THIS.

IN '77, WE HAD THE STATE OF THE ART CONVENTION CENTER IN THE COUNTRY.

15 YEARS LATER, IT WAS OBSOLETE AND I GUESS YOU REMEMBER, THE CURRENT FOOTBALL STADIUM WAS SOLD BECAUSE IT WAS GOING TO DOUBLE AS AN EXPANSION.

WHY?

BECAUSE OUR STATE OF THE ART CONVENTION CENTER WAS OUT -- WAS LITERALLY OBSOLETE IN 15 YEARS.

YOU DO HAVE TO KEEP UP WITH THE JONESES IF YOU WANT TO COMPETE FOR CONVENTION BUSINESS.

>> WELL, HERE'S THE DEAL -- >> YOU TALK ABOUT NEVER UNDERESTIMATE SOMETHING, EVERUNDER ESTIMATE OUR IDEA OF WE'LL SPEND MONEY ON SOMETHING THAT WILL BE TRANSFORMATIONAL.

FROM ST. LOUIS CENTER, THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO -- I MEAN, JUST ONE AT ANOTHER AND I'M AFRAID THIS IS A VERY EXPENSIVE ONE.

>> WELL, IT IS, AND LAST WEEK THE MAYOR ANNOUNCED THAT SHE HAS $18 MILLION FOR THE HOMELESS.

THAT WAS REPORTED BY FOX2 AND I GUESS SOMEONE IS SAYING WE NEED 800 MILLION FOR OUT OF TOWN CONVENTIONEERS.

WELL, ALVIN REID, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT LARRY RICE, REVEREND LARRY RICE WHO FOREVER WAS SYNONYMOUS WITH HOMELESS SERVICES IN ST. LOUIS UNTIL 2017 WHEN MAYOR FRANCIS SLAY'S ADMINISTRATION SHUT DOWN HIS HOMELESS SHELTER ON LOCUST.

HE TOLD OUR HOST ON ST. LOUIS TALKS ON KMOX, BO, CAROL AND RYAN, THAT HE IS IN TALKS WITH THE MAYOR ABOUT PROVIDING SERVICES ONCE AGAIN FOR THE HOMELESS.

YOU THINK IT'S TIME TO BRING BACK THE REVEREND LARRY RICE AND HIS HOMELESS SERVICES?

>> WELL, AS HE WAS, YOU KNOW, SHOOED OUT OF THE BUILDING AND THE DOWNTOWN AREA, HIS PARTING WORDS WERE THIS IS ONLY GOING TO MAKE THE PROBLEM WORSE.

OBVIOUSLY, HE'S BEEN PROVEN RIGHT.

I THINK SOME COMPROMISE HAS TO BE FOUND.

FOR SOME REASON, HE'S THE BEST THING THAT WE HAVE GOING, WHETHER YOU LIKE HIM OR YOU DON'T, AND I THINK THE CITY IS WISE TO TRY ON BRING HIM BACK IN TO TRY TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION BECAUSE, ONCE AGAIN, WHAT HE WANTED TO DO -- AND QUITE FRANKLY, I THINK WHAT YOU WANTED TO DO WAS LISTEN TO PEOPLE THAT BOUGHT CONDOS DOWN THERE AND THAT'S LIKE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE -- YOUR HOUSE NEAR THE AIRPORT WHEN YOU BUILT A -- YOU KNOW, YOU BUILT A HOUSE NEAR THE AIRPORT KIND OF THING.

SO I -- YOU KNOW, HE WAS RIGHT AND I WOULD LISTEN TO HIM.

AND IF HE COULD GET THAT BUILDING BACK UP TO CODE AND SAFE AND ALL THAT T I THINK IT PLAYS A FUNCTION AND IT'S A GOOD IDEA.

>> BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS ALREADY BROUGHT UP TO THE CODE WITH THE $80,000 EXPENDITURE SEVERAL YEARS AGO AND THAT WAS STILL WHEN LYDA KREWSON WOULDN'T OPEN HIM BACK UP AGAIN.

>> THAT'S BECAUSE LYDA KREWSON WAS TRYING TO -- WELL, SHE ENDED UP NOT RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION, BUT IN HER MIND, I THINK SHE THOUGHT SHE WAS BEFORE ALL HECK WAS BREAKING LOOSE IN ST. LOUIS, SO I THINK SHE WAS APIECING CONSTITUENTS THAT SHE THOUGHT WERE GOING TO VOTE FOR HER AND THAT'S THE ONLY REASON IT DIDN'T REOPEN.

>> YOU KNOW, I SUPPORTED REVEREND RICE WHEN HE WAS FIGHTING WITH THE CITY AND THEY WERE KICKING HIM OUT, BUT THE TRUTH IS, BRINGING REVEREND RICE BACK DOWNTOWN NOW IS SORT OF ADMITTING THAT THE WHOLE IDEA OF THIS REBIRTH FAILED, I THINK.

>> HEY, I DIDN'T SUPPORT HIM MAINLY BECAUSE, I DON'T KNOW, THERE WAS THIS -- WE'D DONE SOME STUFF AT THE MAGAZINE ABOUT HOW -- IT WAS AN AMAZING PIECE ABOUT JUST HOW WELL PEOPLE BEING TREATED IN THE FACILITY AND HOW SAFE IT WAS.

THERE WERE A LOT OF -- IT'S A VERY COMPLEX ISSUE, OBVIOUSLY.

I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO SOLVE ANYTHING.

I MEAN, I DON'T THINK -- I DON'T KNOW.

I WISH I HAD A GREAT ANSWER.

I MEAN, THE EASIEST THING TO SAY IS WE NEED MORE PERMANENT HOUSING.

I DON'T THINK WE CAN GUILT-TRIP PEOPLE, WHETHER THEY'RE BUSINESSES OR RESIDENTS, WHO ARE TRYING TO BRING TO BRING BACK DOWNTOWN OR TRYING TO BE PART OF DOWNTOWN.

HOMELESSNESS IS SUCH A TRAGIC PROBLEM, NOBODY WANTS TO BE HEARTLESS ABOUT IT, BUT SAMET, THAT DOESN'T -- JUST -- AT THE SAME TIME, JUST BECAUSE YOU MOVE DOWNTOWN OR HAVE A BUSINESS DIVOURNTION DOESN'T MEAN YOU DON'T HAVE RIGHTS OF YOUR OWN CONCERNS ABOUT SAFETY.

>> I THINK MAYOR JONES IS NOT ONE TO REVISIT MEMORY LANE.

I THINK THAT IF HE HAS PROVEN TO BE A PROBLEM IN THE PAST FOR PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS, AND HE HAS, I DON'T SEE HER SAYING LET'S GIVE THIS ONE MORE TRY.

MAYBE SHE WILL.

MAYBE SHE WILL.

>> HERE'S WHY I THINK SHE MIGHT DO THAT, WENDY.

THE COURTS RULED, NINTH CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS, THAT A MUNICIPALITY IN THE UNITED STATES CAN'T MOVE A HOMELESS PERSON UNLESS IT CAN PROVIDE THAT PERSON A COT OR SHELTER SOMEWHERE AND NOW HE PROVIDES A CONVENIENT WAY FOR HER TO MOVE HOMELESS FROM PLACES LIKE INTERCO PLAZA, EVEN THOUGH SHE CLEARED THAT OUT LAST WEEK, BUT FILL IN THE NAME OF THE PARK IN DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS.

FEST AROUND AND HE HAS -- IF HE'S AROUND AND HE HAS 100 OR 200 COTS, SHE CAN MOVE 100 OR 200 HOMELESS OFF THE STREETS AND KEEP PEOPLE LIKE THE OPERATORS OF SQUARE HAPPY.

>> AND I THINK THE PROBLEM OF STREET WANDERING, HOMELESSNESS, IS -- THERE'S MORE OF THAT NOW THAN THERE WAS WHEN LARRY RICE'S SHELTER GOT CLOSED DOWN.

>> IT SEEMS THAT WAY.

I WANT TO ASK YOU, RAY -- >> BUT WE SHOULDN'T BE -- THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING EARLIER.

YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GOING TO LOOK ASKANCE AT THE OPERATORS OF SQUARE, AS YOU PUT IT.

I MEAN, THEY ARE SUCH A GREAT -- >> THEY ARE, BUT THEY KEPT THEIR EMPLOYEES AT HOME.

>> -- SYMBOL OF WHAT WE NEED IN DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS.

>> RIGHT, I'M NOT LOOKING AT SQUARE.

THEY HAVE CREATED A HOMELESS SHELTER ON COLE.

>> BUT THEY NEED NOT TO BE THE VILLE LANES IN THIS STORY, I'M SORRY NOO I DON'T THINK THEY ARE.

I THINK THEY'RE THE VICTIM.

>> IF LARRY RICE'S SHELTER WAS OPEN, I DON'T THINK THAT THEY WOULD BE MOVING OR TELLING THE PEOPLE NOT TO COME DOWNTOWN TO GO TO WORK BECAUSE THAT ENCAMPMENT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ACROSS THE STREET AND WHAT WENT DOWN WOULD NOT HAVE GONE DOWN.

YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING?

>> BECAUSE JIM McKELVEY TOLD ALL HIS EMPLOYEES, ALL 500 TO STAY HOME, OR WHOEVER OPERATES SQUARE DOWNTOWN SAID THAT, THAT'S WHY THE HOMELESS WERE MOVED PRETTY QUICKLY.

>> THAT'S WHY I SAY, WE NEED MORE -- >> RAY, SHAMED DOGAN, STATE REPRESENTATIVE, HAS ANNOUNCED THAT HE'S GOING TO RUN FOR COUNTY EXECUTIVE.

HE'S A BLACK REPUBLICAN WHO I THINK REPRESENTS BALLWIN, RIGHT?

DOES HE HAVE A CHANCE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK HE'S -- HE'S SOMEBODY WITH WHOM I WOULD, YOU KNOW -- I WOULDN'T WANT TO -- I DON'T AGREE WITH HIM ON A LOT OF SOCIAL ISSUES AND STUFF, BUT HE IS ONE OF THE MOST, IN MY EXPERIENCE, ONE OF THE MOST RESPECTED LEGISLATORS CERTAINLY FROM OUR AREA, AND BY THAT I MEAN ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, PARTICULARLY THE DEMOCRATS, AND HE IS -- BUT HE'S THE ONLY, HE IS THE BLACK REPUBLICAN CAUCUS IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

THE ONLY AFRICAN AMERICAN ON EITHER SIDE, AND INTERESTINGLY, THE DEMOCRATS, AS HE POINTED OUT ON MY SHOW, ACTUALLY, THE DEMOCRATS MADE HIM VICE CHAIR OF THE CAUCUS, WHICH IS PRETTY UNUSUAL WHEN YOU CONSIDER ALL THE DEMOCRATS, LIKE 18 -- QUITE A BIT OF NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND THEY MADE HIM THE VICE CHAIR, WHICH SPEAKS TO HIS ABILITY TO WORK ACROSS THE AISLE AND SAM PAGE HAS LEFT HIMSELF VULNERABLE IN A LOT OF WAYS TO A CHALLENGER.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO BACK THAT FAR, RICK STREAM BARELY LOST TO STEVE STENGER, SO THE IDEA -- WELL, THE IDEA THAT -- ONE THING I WILL SAY, THE COUNTY WENT 51-36, THINK IT WAS, TO JOE BIDEN OVER TRUMP.

SO IT'S -- >> 61-36.

>> I'M SORRY, 61-36, AND IT'S NOT THE COUNTY, YOU KNOW -- IT'S CERTAINLY NOT -- IT WAS ALL REPUBLICAN WHEN I GREW UP, BUT -- >> AIN'T NOBODY SO LIKE LOVE HIM/HATE HIM ON SAM PAGE.

THAT WHOLE STEVE STENGER THING AND SAM PAGE IS NOT DRIVING, YOU KNOW, INTELLECTUAL BLACK PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR AN ULTRA-CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN, I I.E., THIS GUY RIGHT HERE TWICE.

HIS PROBLEM IN RUNNING IS REALLY NOT, YOU KNOW, THE INCUMBENT IN THAT OFFICE.

HIS PROBLEM IS ERIC SCHMIDT AND JUST ALL THIS NONSENSE THAT, YOU KNOW, COMING OUT OF JEFFERSON CITY.

YOU JUST CAN'T -- YOU COULD TRY TO DISTANCE YOURSELF FROM THAT, BUT IT JUST -- IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK.

IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO WORK.

>> I DIDN'T SAY HE WAS GOING TO WIN.

I SAID HE HAD A CHANCE.

>> OKAY, I MEAN, I WOULD HAVE A CHANCE IF I WERE -- >> I THINK HE HAS A VERY -- I DON'T KNOW IF CONTINUES THE MESSAGE, AS YOU SAID, ALVIN, TO DRIVE BLACK VOTERS TO THE POLLS WHO HAVE VOTED DEMOCRATIC, BUT I THINK THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN RITA HEARD DAYS, THE COUNCIL CHAIRWOMAN AND SAM PAGE, I THINK HE'S MADE A FEW IMPORTANT MISSTEPS IN THAT AREA -- >> I WOULD AGREE, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S ANYWHERE NEAR CLOSE TO WHAT WAS GOING ON THAT LED TO RICK STREAM ALMOST WINNING.

ALSO, WHO'S GOING TO RUN FOR THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION AND SOMEBODY MIGHT, AND THAT SOMEBODY I THINK WOULD BE A BIGGER THREAT TO THE INCUMBENT THAN DOGAN WOULD.

>> THAT'S INTERESTING.

YOU KNOW, WENDY POINTED OUT THAT SAM PAGE HAS BEEN -- WELL, HE BASICALLY TRIED TO KEEP RITA HEARD DAYS, AN AFRICAN AMERICAN COUNTY COUNCIL PERSON, FROM ASSUMING THE CHAIR EARLIER THIS YEAR, AND HE DID SO BY PRETTY MUCH ELIMINATING A VOTE OF ANOTHER AFRICAN AMERICAN COUNTY COUNCIL PERSON, SHALONDA WEBB, BUT DON'T YOU FOLKS ON THE PANEL FEEL THAT THAT'S A LITTLE TOO INSIDE BASEBALL, THAT THAT'S NOT GOING TO REALLY RES SON FATE WITH VOTERS, PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO VOTE FOR SHAMED DOGAN BECAUSE OF THAT?

>> NOT TWO AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY, NO, THAT'S NOT INSIDE BASEBALL.

>> BUT DO PEOPLE EVEN KNOW ABOUT IT?

VIEWERS OF THIS SHOW, OF COURSE, BUT -- >> THEY MIGHT KNOW ABOUT IT, BUT I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S ENOUGH FOR THEM TO VOTE REPUBLICAN.

>> I THINK THAT -- DON'T FORGET, THE LATE HAZEL IRBY REALLY HAD ISSUES AND SHE HAD GREAT NUNES IN NORTH COUNTY.

IT DEPENDS ON -- YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO TRY TO HANDICAP IT IN THAT CONTEXT.

I THINK THAT 2022 -- AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT ALVIN SAYS AND I AM CERTAINLY -- I DON'T THINK SHAMED DOGAN REPRESENTS THAT PART OF THE PARTY LIKE ERIC SCHMITT DOES, BUT HE'S GOING TO HAVE AN INTERESTING TIME BEING A LEGISLATOR IN THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS NEXT YEAR AND STILL MAINTAINING AN APPEAL TO CERTAINLY THE CENTRIST PART OF ST. LOUIS COUNTY, BUT I THINK HE'S A VERY, VERY ABLE PERSON.

I THINK HE'S -- I THINK SAM PAGE HAS GIVEN HIM AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A VIABLE CHANCE AND WE'LL HAVE TO SEE.

>> RAY, RAY, IF I RAN AGAINST ANN WAGNER, GUESS WHOSE NAME WOULD KEEP COMING UP?

CORI BUSH.

ALVIN REID IS IN LINE WITH CORI BUSH AND THOSE CRAZY PROGRESSIVES AND I'M LOOKING AROUND SAYING, NO, I'M NOT.

>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.

>> OKAY, ALL RIGHT, LET'S MOVE ON.

ENOUGH OF THAT, WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS THERE.

MEANWHILE, WENDY WIESE, I THOUGHT IT WAS AN INTERESTING MEETING OF THE ST. LOUIS COUNTY COUNSEL.

WE'RE ALSO GETTING SOME WORD THAT THE COUNCIL HAS VOTED TO, I GUESS, RETIRE MARK TUCKER, THE COUNTY AUDITOR.

DID ANYONE OUT THERE -- TALK ABOUT INSIDE BASEBALL, THAT'S A LITTLE BIT ARCANE I KNOW, BUT ERNIE TRAKAS AT A COUNTY COUNCIL MEETING THIS WEEK, HE'S A REPUBLICAN COUNCIL PERSON, SAID HE UNDERSTANDS, HE SAID THAT TWICE APPARENTLY ACCORDING TO PUBLISHED REPORTS IN YOUR PAPER, BILL McCLELLAN, THAT COVID VACCINATIONS LEAD TO THOUSANDS OF DEATHS AND WHAT I THOUGHT WAS MOST INTERESTING, WENDY, ON THIS DATE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES SAID HE'S GOING TO REQUIRE FEDERAL CONTRACTORS AND EMPLOYEES AND EMPLOYEES OF LARGE CORPORATIONS TO BE VACCINATED, THAT GREAT HUSBAND, THE CHIEF STRATEGIC OFFICER FOR ST. LUKE'S HOSPITAL, SAID HE, AN EMPLOYEE OF HIS HOSPITAL AND A TOP EXECUTIVE L NOT GET VACCINATED L NOT TAKE A WEEKLY TEST, AND AS A RESULT, HE IS ON A SELF-IMPOSED LEAVE OF ABSENCE.

I'M WONDER, WOW, DO YOU THINK LOCALLY AT NURSING HOMES, DENTAL OFFICES, TELEVISION STATIONS, ARE PEOPLE GOING TO BE WALKING OUT AS A RESULT OF THIS PRESIDENTIAL ORDER?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

I MEAN, ALL OF THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN, BUT I WAS LIKE YOU WHEN I READ THE STORY ABOUT THE STRATEGIC OFFICER AT ST. LUKE'S, AND I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT HIS, HIS CV, BUT I STILL HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT -- I KNOW YOU SAID THAT HE HAS A PUBLIC HEALTH BACKGROUND, BUT -- >> TWO MASTERS IN PUBLIC HEALTH FROM THE OHIO STATE.

>> RIGHT.

THAT'S COMPLETELY INCONSISTENT WITH THE MESSAGE THAT EVERY HOSPITAL IS TRYING TO GET OUT, BUT IT CERTAINLY GIVES YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT THESE HOSPITALS ARE DEALING WITH IN TERMS OF RESISTANCE AND BLOWBACK, WHETHER IT'S THE STRATEGIC OFFICER IN THE CASE OF MR. HUDSON AND ST. LUKE'S, WHETHER IT'S NURSES ON THE FRONT LINE WHO DON'T WANT TO TAKE THE VACCINE.

I THINK IT BRINGS -- IT REALLY KIND OF BRINGS THAT PROBLEM HOME.

IT'S NOT ONLY HAPPENING IN ST. LUKE'S.

THEY'RE PONGT OF RESISTANCE -- PONGT OF RESISTANCE AT EVERY HOSPITAL.

>> I MISREAD THE CLOCK, WENDY WIESE AND GENTLEMEN, AND WE ARE FLAT OUT OF TIME.

LET'S PICK UP NEXT WEEK WHERE WE LEFT OFF HERE.

MEANWHILE, BILL, DON'T YOU GO AWAY BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING TO PEDIATRICIAN KEN HALLER FROM CARDINAL GLENNON.

THE TOPIC, KIDS AND COVID.

THAT'S ON NEXT UP JUST MOMENTS AWAY.

DON'T GO AWAY.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR NEXT UP.

THIS IS THE PORTION OF THE DONNYBROOK PROGRAM WHERE WE INTERVIEW COMMUNITY LEADERS AND WE WELCOME BACK A PEDIATRICIAN FROM CARDINAL GLENNON, SOMEONE ME MIGHT DESCRIBE AS A FRIEND OF THE SHOW.

DR. KEN HALLER IS BACK WITH US.

HELLO, DOCTOR, HOW ARE YOU?

>> GREAT, CHARLIE.

THANKS FOR ASKING ME ON TODAY.

>> IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU, ESPECIALLY NOW THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT LAST WEEK WAS THE LARGEST INCREASE IN PEDIATRIC COVID CASES WITH AN EXTRA 250,000 NATIONWIDE.

>> RIGHT.

>> FOR A LONG TIME, KIDS REPRESENTED 15% OF ALL CASES.

NOW THAT NUMBER IS UP TO 22.4%.

WHAT ARE YOU SEEING AT CARDINAL GLENNON?

>> WELL, WE ARE SEEING KIDS BEING ADMITTED.

NOW, THE THINGS IS THAT IT'S -- IT'S GONE FROM PRACTICALLY NOTHING TO NOW PROBABLY AROUND 10 TO 15% OF OUR ADMITTED KIDS HERE IN THE HOSPITAL ARE COVID KIDS.

SOME OF THEM ARE ENDING UP IN THE ICU, SO THAT'S STILL A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT JUMP.

AND IT'S CAUSING US TO BE FULLER AT THIS HOSPITAL THAN WE EVER ARE AT THIS TIME OF YEAR.

IT'S BEEN REALLY REMARKABLE THING.

LAST WINTER WAS ACTUALLY RATHER QUIET BECAUSE I THINK SINCE EVERYONE WAS IN THEIR OWN SILOS, NOT GOING OUT, NOT SPREADING VIRUSES, A LOT OF VIRUSES WE SEE IN THE WINTER LIKE FLU AND RSV DID NOT SHOW UP.

SINCE WE ALL STARTED GETTING TOGETHER IN MAY AND JUNE, A LOT OF THOSE VIRUSES HAVE SPREAD, INCLUDING COVID, AND THOSE KIDS ARE NOW GETTING SICK AND ENDING UP IN THE HOSPITAL.

>> DOCTOR, COULD YOU TALK ABOUT VACCINES A LITTLE BIT?

>> SURE.

>> WHAT AGE KID GET THEM AND HOW MUCH RESISTANCE ARE YOU GETTING?

I MEAN, I CAN SEE SOMEBODY SAYING SINCE KIDS DON'T DIE FROM, THIS IT ISN'T LIKE OLD PEOPLE, I'M RELUCTANT TO HAVE MY CHILD GET IT.

>> RIGHT.

>> IS THERE A LOT OF RESISTANCE?

>> WELL, RIGHT NOW THE PFIZER VACCINE HAS EMERGENCY USE AUTHORIZATION FOR KIDS FROM THE 12th BIRTHDAY AND ABOVE.

SO 12 YEARS AND UP, YOU CAN GET THE PFIZER VACCINE.

IT'S STILL NOT AVAILABLE IF YOU'RE 11 YEARS OLD OR YOUNGER.

WE'RE HOPING TO GET SOME APPROVAL OF THAT IN THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS, BUT RIGHT NOW THEY'RE STILL COLLECTING DATA ON IT.

SO KIDS UNDER 12 CAN'T BE VACCINATED YET.

WE'RE ACTUALLY SEEING A GOOD NUMBER OF PARENTS COMING IN SEEKING COVID VACCINES AND WHEN I WAS IN THE OFFICE THE OTHER DAY, TWO OF THE THREE TEENAGERS I SAW IN THE AFTERNOON HAD ALREADY BEEN FULLY VACCINATED.

I WAS GLAD TO SEE THAT .

IT'S INTERESTING, I THINK THE PARENTS ARE USED TO -- WHILE THEY'RE NOT USED TO GETTING VACCINATED THEMSELVES THESE DAYS, THEY'RE VERY INTERESTED IN GETTING THEIR KIDS VACCINATED.

THE QUESTION IS, WHEN CAN WE GET OUR YOUNGER KIDS VACCINATED BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT.

>> RIGHT NOW THE 12 TO 17-YEAR-OLDS ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THE VACCINE.

I READ THAT ABOUT 24% LOCALLY ARE GETTING THE VACCINE.

DOES THAT SEEM TO BE WHAT YOU UNDERSTAND?

>> THAT SEEMS TO BE ABOUT WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW, AND WE ARE -- I MEAN, THE THING IS, LIKE WITH EVERYTHING, IT'S TAKEN SOME TIME TO ROLL THAT OUT.

WE DO HAVE THAT IN THE OFFICE NOW AND MOST OFFICES DO HAVE I.

WHEN IT WAS FIRST APPROVED FOR KIDS BETWEEN 12 AND 17, IT WAS NOT AVAILABLE IN MOST PEDIATRIC OFFICES, SO WE'D HAVE TO SEND PEOPLE TO WALGREENS OR SOMEWHERE ELSE AND THAT EXTRA STEP ALWAYS INVOLVES TIME AND EFFORT, AND WHEN YOU'RE A BUSY PARENT, IT CAN TAKE SOME TIME.

BUT I THINK WE'RE STARTING TO SEE MORE PEOPLE GETTING INTRODUCED AND GETTING THEIR TEENAGERS VACCINATED AND NOT A MOMENT TOO SOON, FRANKLY.

>> DOCTOR, THOSE OF US WHO WATCH THIS STUFF ON TV OR READ ABOUT IT, THE STATISTICS ARE OFTEN ABOUT ICUs IN THE MAJOR HOSPITALS, NOT CHILDREN'S HOSPITALS, BUT THE ICUs ARE ALMOST FILLED.

HOW ABOUT AT YOUR HOSPITAL WITH KIDS?

ARE THE ICUs BEING FILLED UP WITH CHILDREN?

>> THE ICUs ARE GETTING FULLER.

IT'S NOT QUITE THE SITUATION THAT IS IT IS WITH ADULTS, BUT THE THING IS THERE ARE FEWER ICU BEDS NATIONWIDE FOR CHILDREN THAN THERE ARE FOR ADULTS AND EVEN A SMALL INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF KIDS IN THE ICU WHO ARE THERE BECAUSE OF COVID DOES REPRESENT A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN NUMBERS.

I MEAN, GENERALLY OUR ICU HERE AT CARDINAL GLENNON AS WELL AS MOST CHILDREN'S HOSPITALS ARE RUNNING PRETTY CLOSE TO FULL, AND SO WHEN YOU GET ANOTHER THREE OR FOUR OR FIVE KIDS WHO ARE THERE BECAUSE OF COVID, THAT REALLY DOES STRETCH THE RESOURCES.

SO EVEN A SMALL CHANGE CAN, YOU KNOW, CAN RESULT IN A TIPPING POINT WITH THIS SORT OF, YOU KNOW, THIS SORT OF INFECTION AND THIS SORT OF RESOURCE.

>> DR. HALLER, AS OF THIS AFTERNOON, THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS'S WEBSITE, WHICH SHARES THE COVID-19 STATS, INDICATES THAT THERE ISN'T ONE DEATH UNDER THE AGE OF 30 IN THE CITY.

IN THE CITY, TO COVID-19.

I LOOKED AT THE COUNTY AND THEY KIND OF LOOK AT RATES AND THEY CLUMP ZERO TO 39 AND THAT'S 2.7 PER 100,000.

BUT AT LEAST WHEN IT GOES TO THE CITY, CONCERNING THE CITY, THE NUMBER IS ZERO OVERALL DEATHS.

SINCE THE PANDEMIC BEGAN EARLY LAST YEAR.

IF THAT'S TRUE, AND I ASSUME THOSE NUMBERS ARE ACCURATE, DO WE RUN THE RISK OF MAYBE OVEREXAGGERATING THE PROBLEM FOR THE CHILDREN OF OUR AREA?

>> WELL, I -- HMM, I'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THOSE NUMBERS.

I HAVEN'T SEEN THEM.

I CAN TELL YOU I KNOW OF AT LEAST A COUPLE OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIED IN THE CITY OF COVID, SO I -- >> CHILDREN?

>> I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT MEANS.

THE THING IS, WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS THAT, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE EMERGENCE AND NOW THE PREDOMINANCE OF THE DELTA VARIANT, THIS DOES SEEM TO INFECT -- BE MORE EFFECTIVE AT INFECTING YOUNGER PEOPLE AND MAKING THEM SICKER.

IN THE PEDIATRIC POPULATION, IT SEEMS TO BE WORSE IN TEENAGERS, AND SO LUCKILY THEY CAN BE VACCINATED, BUT IT ALSO SEEMS TO BE WORSE IN YOUNGER KIDS.

YOU KNOW, ABOUT SINCE YOUNG TODDLER AGE, THE AGE THAT NORMALLY WE'D BE MORE WORRIED ABOUT RSV, BUT COVID SEEMS TO BE AFFECTING THEM.

AND LIKE I SAID, LAST YEAR IN MARCH AND APRIL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL DID SINCE IT SEALED TO BE AFFECTING ADULTS, WE CAME UP WITH SOME SURGE THINGS TO ALLOW ADULTS TO COME INTO CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL, NOT COVID PATIENTS, BUT OTHER PATIENTS SO THE OTHER -- SO THAT THE ADULT HOSPITALS WOULD HAVE MORE, YOU KNOW, CAPACITY.

WE DIDN'T SEEM TO -- THAT DIDN'T SEEM TO BE A PROBLEM, BUT WE WEREN'T SEEING THAT MANY COVID PATIENTS.

WE ARE SEEING A LOT MORE ACTUAL PEDIATRIC COVID PATIENTS IN THE HOSPITAL AND IN THE OFFICE NOWADAYS.

YOU KNOW, KIDS ARE COMING IN WITH SYMPTOMS.

WE'RE ABLE TO DO TESTS, GET THEM BACK QUICKLY AND IT'S REMARKABLE HOW MANY KIDS ARE TURNING UP POSITIVE.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE DEBATE ABOUT MASK MANDATES IN THE SCHOOLS FOR KIDS?

>> WELL, AT THIS POINT, THERE IS A, AN OVERWHELMING AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE FROM EVERYTHING I'VE READ THAT WEARING MASKS IS A VERY, VERY EFFECTIVE STRATEGY FOR MITIGATING THE SPREAD OF -- THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT I -- YOU KNOW, I JUST DON'T REALLY SEE, YOU KNOW, WHY IT IS A -- WHY IT'S EVEN A DEBATE.

YOU KNOW, THE THING IS THAT'S REMARKABLE WHEN IT COMES TO KIDS, KIDS REALLY DON'T MIND.

I'VE HAD KIDS IN MY OFFICE, THEY LOVE TO SHOW OFF THEIR MASK, TALK ABOUT HOW GREAT IT IS THAT THEY'RE WEARING A MASK AND THEY'RE -- WHETHER IT'S HELLO KITTY OR SPIDERMAN OR WHATEVER.

I EVEN PUT A THING OUT ON FACEBOOK JUST ON MY OWN TIMELINE JUST PARENTS THEIR EXPERIENCE WITH MASKS AS WELL AS TEACHERS, AND BETWEEN THAT AND OTHER PLACES I PUT IT, I GOT ABOUT 100 STORIES AND EVERY SINGLE ONE WAS MY KID LOVES THEIR MASK, THEY'RE DOING GREAT WITH IT.

WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO IS KIDS WILL REFLECT VALUES OF THEIR PARENTS AROUND IT.

IF THE PARENTS SAY THIS IS SOMETHING WE CAN DO TO HELP PEOPLE, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WILL HELP YOU AND HELP OTHER PEOPLE, THEY'RE GOING TO DO IT.

I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU GENTLEMEN, BUT I AM OF A GENERATION WHERE THE FIRST FAMILY CAR WE HAD DID NOT HAVE SEAT BELTS.

IT WAS A 1954 BLUE FORD STATION WAGON AND WE GOT THE 1963 BLACK MERCURY STATION WAGON, WE WERE BUGGING OUR PARENTS, WEAR YOUR SEAT BELT, WE WANT YOU TO STAY HEALTHY.

I'VE SEEN THE SAME THING WITH KIDS.

I'VE OVERHEARD KIDS, WALKING INTO A ROOM, MOM, PUT ON YOUR MASK, THE DOCTOR IS COMING IN.

MOM, I WANT YOU TO STAY HEALTHY.

KIDS ARE REALLY INTERESTED IN HELPING THEIR FAMILY, IN HELPING THEMSELVES.

THE MASK -- THE MASK DEBATE IS REALLY MISLEADING AND THE DATA AROUND IT ARE SO COMPELLING.

I MEAN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT SCHOOLS WHERE MASKS ARE REQUIRED VERSUS WHERE THEY AREN'T, THE OUTBREAKS OF COVID ARE JUST REMARKABLY DIFFERENT AND YOU SEE THEM MUCH MORE IN SCHOOLS THAT DO NOT HAVE A MASK MANDATE AS OPPOSED TO THOSE THAT DO.

>> RECENTLY ON CBS'S FACE THE NATION, A GUEST WAS ASKED THAT QUESTION AND HE SAID THAT HE THOUGHT MASKS WERE IMPORTANT, BUT NOT AS IMPORTANT AS REGULAR TESTING AND SENDING THE BOYS AND GIRLS AROUND THE SCHOOL IN PODS SO THEY WEREN'T INTERACTING WITH THE ENTIRE SCHOOL.

>> WELL, I THINK THOSE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT ALSO.

I MEAN, JUST HAVING KIDS, YOU KNOW, ALLOWING THEM TO BE SOCIAL, BUT NOT CAUSING THEM -- ALLOWING THEM TO MIX WITH EVERYBODY.

I THINK MOVING THEM AROUND IN PODS IS FINE, I THINK TESTING IS IMPORTANT.

IT'S PART OF A WHOLE, REALLY, MENU OF THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO DO.

YOU KNOW, MASKS ARE NOT A CURE-ALL, THEY'RE NOT THE ONLY THING THAT SHOULD BE DONE, BUT MASKS ARE A REALLY IMPORTANT MITIGATION STRATEGY AND I THINK THAT KIDS, IF WE STRESS TO THEM HOW IMPORTANT IT IS, KIDS IN MY EXPERIENCE AND, YOU KNOW, FROM WHAT I'M SEEING, YOU KNOW, JUST OUT THERE IN THE WORLD, KIDS ARE REALLY OPEN TO IT AND HAPPY TO DO IT IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS DEMONSTRATED TO THEM BY THEIR PARENTS AND OTHER IMPORTANT PEOPLE IN THEIR LIVES.

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT KIDS AND THEIR PARENTS AND INFLUENCING KIDS, ARE CHILDREN ALLOWED TO GET THE VACCINE WITHOUT PARENTAL APPROVAL?

IF A 15-YEAR-OLD SAYS I'D HIKE TO GET VACCINATED, HOW DOES THAT WORK?

>> THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION.

I'M NOT SURE I HAVE A VERY GOOD ANSWER TO IT.

IN GENERAL, KIDS DO HAVE A LIMITED AMOUNT OF AUTONOMY TO MAKE MEDICAL DECISIONS FOR THEMSELVES.

WE REALLY HAVE NOT HAD ANY CASES WHERE THAT -- WE HAVE RUN ACROSS THAT AND I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE LEGALITY OF IT, HONESTLY.

AS KIDS GET OLDER, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DO WHEN WE SEE ANY TEENAGER IS WE WILL SPEND SOME TIME WITH THEM TO DO A CONFIDENTIAL HISTORY, TO FIND OUT THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON AT HOME, AT SCHOOL, THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND BECAUSE SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT KIDS DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT WITH THEIR PARENTS IN THE ROOM.

AND SOMETIMES THINGS WILL COME UP IN THAT HISTORY WHERE WE WILL, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS COUNSEL KIDS THAT, YEAH, THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN JUST KEEP BETWEEN OURSELVES AND LOOK AT TREATMENTS THAT MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE FOR THAT.

OWN ON THE OTHER HAND, WHEN IT COMES TO VACCINES, THIS TUSHLLY INVOLVES -- BECAUSE IT DOES INVOLVE AN INJECTION OF SUBSTANCE, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT DOES REQUIRE SOME LEVEL OF CONSENT.

PARENTS GENERALLY NEED TO SIGN A CONSENT FORM FOR THAT, BUT IF THE KID REALLY WANTS IT, WE'LL HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT.

HOWEVER, IF IT IS A QUESTION OF LEGALITY, HONESTLY, THAT'S SOMETHING I'M NOT AN EXPERT IN.

>> OKAY, THANK YOU.

>> I TALKED TO A PEDIATRICIAN THE OTHER NIGHT THAT SAID HER OFFICE IS JAMMED RIGHT NOW WITH PARENTS BRINGING THE CHILDREN IN BECAUSE THEY'VE GOT SNIFFLES AND OTHER SYMPTOMS AND THE PARENTS WANT THEM TESTED.

>> YEAH.

>> IS THERE ANY WAY FOR A MOM OR DAD OR A GUARDIAN TO TEST THE BOYS OR GIRLS WITHOUT MAKING A DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENT?

IS THERE A KIT OR A TEST FROM CVS OR WALGREENS THAT YOU MIGHT RECOMMEND?

>> YEAH, AT THIS POINT, MY -- PROBABLY GOING TO CVS OR WALGREENS, TESTING CAN BE DONE AT BOTH OF THOSE PLACES.

GENERALLY YOU HAVE TO WALK UP TO AN OUTDOOR WINDOW AND DO IT, OR DO IT FROM THE CAR.

YOU CAN DO IT THAT WAY.

THERE ARE SOME TAKE-HOME TESTS, BUT THEY HAVE VARYING RELIABILITY.

I BELIEVE THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SENIOR SERVICES OF THE STATE OF MISSOURI, IF YOU GO TO THEIR WEBSITE, YOU CAN FIND OUT WHAT KITS ARE, YOU KNOW, ARE AVAILABLE IN MISSOURI THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED TO BE ACCURATE TO DO A TAKE-HOME TEST.

AND SO THESE ARE BECOMING PREVALENT, BUT THE THING TS THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO ARE DOING THESE TESTS AND CREATING TESTS THAT REALLY HAVE NOT BEEN TESTED BY THE FDA AND ARE NOT APPROVED.

SO I WOULD GO TO EITHER THE CDC WEBSITE OR THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SENIOR SERVICES WEBSITE OF THE STATE OF MISSOURI WHEN TRYING TO FIND A TEST YOU CAN DO AT HOME OR ELSE GO TO ONE OF THE LARGE CHAIN DRUGSTORES BECAUSE OF FREE COVID TESTING IS USUALLY AVAILABLE THERE.

>> DOCTOR, DO YOU HEAR ANY STORIES ABOUT SCHOOL NURSES THESE DAYS?

IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE THE ONES THAT -- AND I HAVE A COUPLE GRANDKIDS, SO I HEAR THESE STORIES.

THAT IF THE CHILD HAS THE SNIFFLES, THAT THE TEACHER MIGHT THEN SEND HE OR SHE TO THE SCHOOL NURSE TO DETERMINE IF THE CHILD MIGHT IN FACT HAVE MORE THAN JUST THE SNIFFLES.

AND SINCE SO MANY WORKING PARENTS SEND THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT QUITE UP TO PAR, HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT SCHOOL NURSES MAKING DECISIONS OR -- >> YEAH, AT THIS POINT, IT -- I MEAN, THERE'S SO MANY THINGS AROUND SCHOOL ATTENDANCE NOW THAT ARE REALLY KIND OF HARROWING, I THINK, FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THAT SETTING.

AND SCHOOL NURSES ARE SORT OF, YOU KNOW, REALLY AT THE FRONT LINES OF THIS.

I THINK A LOT OF KIDS ARE BEING SENT TO THE SCHOOL NURSE AND IN A LOT OF CIRCUMSTANCES, THE DEFAULT IS IF THE KID IS HAVING ANY SYMPTOMS OF COVID, WHETHER IT'S A COUGH OR UPPER RESPIRATORY SYMPTOMS OR A SLIGHT FEVER, THEY WILL GET SENT HOME AND WON'T BE ALLOWED BACK UNTIL THEY GET A COVID TEST THAT IS SHOWN TO BE NEGATIVE.

WE DO SEE A FAIR NUMBER OF KIDS WHO ARE GOING INTO THE OFFICE FOR THAT REASON.

SO THE JOB OF THE SCHOOL NURSE IS TO BALANCE, YOU KNOW, THINGS AMONG A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT CONSTITUENCIES, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE KID, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE FAMILY, AND WHAT THE DIRECTION IS FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND FROM THE COMMUNITY THEY'RE IN.

AND SO I -- YEAH, SO WE HAVE HAD A NUMBER OF KIDS WHO HAVE COME TO OUR OFFICE SAYING WE NEED TO HAVE THIS DONE, WE NEED TO HAVE THIS TEST DONE, WE NEED TO GET A LETTER FROM YOU.

SOMETIMES WE CAN DO IT IN THE OFFICE, SOMETIMES WE WILL SEND THEM TO A TESTING CENTER AT A DRUGSTORE, AND WHEN THEY GET THAT RESULT BACK, THEN WE CAN, YOU KNOW, VALIDATE THAT AND GO FORWARD.

BUT THAT IS A, YOU KNOW, A TOUGH CALL THAT SCHOOL NURSES HAVE TO MAKE.

>> WELL, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE LONG-TERM EFFECTS OF COVID-19 IN YOUTH.

DO YOU THINK THERE'S ANY POSSIBILITY THAT A BOY OR GIRL WHO IS ASYMPTOMATIC BUT HAS COVID-19 COULD BE DEVELOPING SOME LONG-TERM KIDNEY OR CARDIAC ISSUES?

>> THAT IS ONE OF THE THOSE THINGS THAT IS A REALLY HOT TOPIC RIGHT NOW, AND FOR RESEARCHERS AND IN MEDICINE.

THERE DOES SEEM TO BE SOME EVIDENCE THAT, YOU KNOW, LONG COVID SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING THAT PROBABLY AROUND 20 TO 25% OF ADULTS WHO WERE INFECTED WILL HAVE SOME LEVEL OF.

IT NOW LOOKS LIKE FOR KIDS, THAT MAY BE -- AND AGAIN, THIS IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE AS WE KNOW MORE.

IT MAY BE ABOUT 10 TO 15% OF KIDS WILL HAVE SOME LONG-TERM SYMPTO SYMPTOMS, AGAIN, CARDIAC OR KIDNEY SYMPTOMS, BUT MAYBE THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, JUST SORT OF THINGS LIKE THAT THAT WE -- THAT ARE -- THAT WE'VE SEEN IN ADULTS WITH LONG COVID.

THE THING THAT IS A CONFOUNDER IN ALL THIS WITH BOTH -- ESPECIALLY WITH THE, YOU KNOW, THE SORT OF PSYCHOLOGICAL MANIFESTATIONS OF IT, IS HOW MUCH OF THAT IS DUE TO COVID AND HOW MUCH OF THAT IS DUE TO SOME OF THE ISOLATION THAT COMES ALONG WITH IT.

NOW, THE FACT THAT MOST KIDS ARE GOING BACK TO ACTUAL SCHOOL AND ARE ABLE TO BE SOCIALLY ENGAGED WITH OTHER KIDS, PROBABLY THE POSSIBILITY OF THESE -- OF JUST BEING ABLE TO SAY THAT THESE SORTS OF SYMPTOMS ARE DUE TO DEPRESSION BECAUSE KIDS ARE NOT IN SCHOOL IS LESS PROMINENT AND WE CAN START TO GET SOME DATA ON WHETHER LONG COVID IS SOMETHING WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT.

BUT THIS IS ANOTHER REASON WHY WE HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN, ESPECIALLY WITH THOSE KIDS WHO CAN'T YET BE VACCINATED, TO MITIGATE THEIR EXPOSURE TO COVID.

AND SO AGAIN, MASK WEARING, AND AS YOU POINTED OUT, TRYING TO KEEP KIDS IN PODS SO IF THERE IS AN OUTBREAK, IT'S CONFINED TO A SINGLE GROUP.

PLUS, YOU KNOW, SOME ELEMENT OF TESTING TO SEE WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THESE KIDS IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR KIDS WHO ARE IN SCHOOL.

>> AND DOCTOR, WHEN DO YOU THINK THAT THE VACCINES MIGHT BE AVAILABLE FOR THESE KIDS?

I HAVE A GRANDDAUGHTER TURNING 11.

>> YEAH, YEAH.

I WOULD SAY THAT RIGHT NOW, I'M HEARING ANYWHERE FROM THE END OF OCTOBER TO THE -- MAYBE BEGINNING OF JANUARY.

ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THESE THINGS TAKE SO LONG, COMPARED TO WHEN THE VACCINES CAME OUT INITIALLY, IS THAT THE -- I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT THIS BACK IN MAY, BUT WHEN THE VACCINES CAME OUT INITIALLY FOR ADULTS, RESEARCH ON THESE VACCINES, PARTICULARLY THE mRNA VACCINES HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR OVER A DECADE BECAUSE SARS AND MERS, THOSE OUTBREAKS THAT SPURRED RESEARCH INTO THIS FAMILY ACTIVE CORONAVIRUSES, AND SO WHEN THIS COME CAME ALONG, WHICH WAS SLOWLY RELATE, THEY WERE ABLE TO RAMP UP THE TESTING AND PRODUCTION IN ADULTS.

THE PROBLEM THAT IS ONCE WE GET INTO KIDS, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT EARLIER IN TERMS OF CONSENT, THE YOUNGER A CHILD IS, THE MORE WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT GETTING APPROPRIATE CONSENT BECAUSE THE YOUNGER A CHILD IS, THE LESS POSITIVE -- THE LESS CHANCE THEY HAVE OF BEING ABLE TO GIVE CONSENT TO A MEDICAL PROCEDURE LIKE BEING PART OF A VACCINE STUDY.

WHEN IT COMES TO -- AND SO WHAT WE NEED IS A LOT OF DATA TO SHOW IT'S AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE IN OLDER AGE GROUPS.

SO THAT'S WHY IT'S BEING ROLLED OUT IN, YOU KNOW, 12 TO 17 AND HOPEFULLY NEXT WILL BE 5 TO 11, AND HOPEFULLY THEN IN YOUNGER AGE GROUPS.

BECAUSE OF THAT, THE FDA HAS TO -- IS BEING VERY SCRUPULOUS ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT THE DATA ARE COLLECTED, THAT THEY'RE LOOKED AT, THAT THERE'S NOT EVIDENCE FOR ANY KIND OF, YOU KNOW, HOT SPOT THAT'S GOING TO JUMP OUT IN TERMS OF A SIDE EFFECT BEFORE THEY WILL GIVE IT EVEN EMERGENCY USE AUTHORIZATION.

SO THAT'S WHY IT'S TAKING SO LONG, AND FRANKLY, IT IS -- YOU KNOW, AS YOU WERE, YOU KNOW -- AS WE WERE ALLUDING TO EARLIER, IT IS INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING FOR PARENTS AND VERY SCARY FOR PARENTS TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL WITHOUT THEM BEING VACCINATED.

ON THE OTHER HAND, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THIS VACCINE IS NOT GOING TO HAVE UNFORESEEN SIDE EFFECTS BECAUSE KIDS ARE NOT JUST INSTALL ADULTS.

THEIR -- JUST SMALL ADULTS.

THEIR MET TAB BLACK HISTORY MONTH -- THEIR METABOLISM IS DIFFERENT, THEIR BODIES ON ARE DIFFERENT.

WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THERE'S NOT ANY SIDE EFFECTS.

>> DR. HALLER, ARE WE SEEING ANY CONNECTIONS BETWEEN PEDIATRIC HOSPITALIZATIONS AND ICU CASES AND COMO MOMORBIDITCOMORBIDITIES?

>> THE THING IS, THE MAJOR COMORBIDITY WE SEE IS THERE ARE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF KIDS THAT END UPS WITH MULTISYSTEM INFLAMMATORY SYNDROME IN CHILDREN, OR MIS-C AND THAT'S ABOUT ONE TO FIVE PERCENT OF KIDS WHO WERE HOSPITALIZED PROBABLY END UP WITH SOME LEVEL OF THAT AND THOSE CAN AFFECT COAGULATION, THAT CAN AFFECT THE HEART, THAT CAN AFFECT THE KIDNEYS AND THAT CAN HAVE SOME PRETTY DRAMATIC SIDE EFFECTS.

WHEN WE LOOK AT THIS IN TERMS OF HOW OFTEN IT HAPPENS, OVER FOUR MILLION KIDS IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH COVID.

ABOUT A THOUSAND OF THOSE HAVE ENDED UP IN THE HOSPITAL AND ABOUT ONE TO TWO OR THREE IN 100 OF THOSE HAVE ENDED UP WITH MIS-C AND THESE COMPLICATIONS, AND A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF THOSE KIDS HAVE PASSED AWAY.

AGAIN, I THINK TOTAL NATIONWIDE, IT'S PROBABLY LESS THAN A HUNDRED WHO HAVE DIED OF THIS, BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S YOUR KID AND YOUR FAMILY, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO RECOVER FROM.

>> DOCTOR, HOW DO KIDS GET HOSPITALIZED?

I MEAN, DO THEY -- DO THEIR DOCTORS LOOK AT THEM AND REFER THEM AND SAY THIS CHILD IS ILL ENOUGH THAT HE SHOULD BE HOSPITALIZED?

ARE THEY COMING THROUGH THE EMERGENCY ROOM?

>> IT CAN BE EITHER WAY.

IT CAN BE EITHER WAY.

THE THING IS, WHENEVER -- WHETHER IT'S COVID OR WHETHER IT'S RSV OR A FLU, HAVING THE VIRUS ITSELF IS NOT ENOUGH TO CAUSE SOMEONE TO BE HOSPITALIZED.

WE LOOK AT THEIR BREATHING, WE LOOK AT THEIR HYDRATION, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT FLUIDS, IS AIR GETTING IN AND OUT OKAY, ARE THEY ABLE TO FEED, IS THE CHILD ABLE TO PEE.

IF ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE GOING ON, THEN GENERALLY WE CAN TRY TO TREAT THE CHILD AT HOME AND THEN JUST GIVE THE PARENTS SOME GUIDELINES FOR IF THESE THINGS HAPPEN, BRING THEM BACK.

IT'S NOT JUST IF YOU HAVE A FEVER, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GOING TO END UP IN THE HOSPITAL.

BUT IF A CHILD IS HAVING PROBLEMS BREATHING AND THEIR PULLS OXIMETER READING GOES DOWN, IF IT'S IN THE LOW 90s OR BELOW CONSISTENTLY AND NOT COMING UP WITH THE HELP OF OXYGEN, THEY PROBABLY NEED TO BE IN THE HOSPITAL.

IF THEY ARE COUGHING SO MUCH OR FEELING SO WEAK THAT THEY'RE NOT PEEING AT LEAST FOUR TIMES A DAY, THEY PROBABLY NEED TO BE IN THE HOSPITAL.

IF THEY HAVE OTHER THINGS GOING ON, THESE MIS-C SYMPTOMS, BLEEDING FROM UNUSUAL SITES, THEY NEED TO BE IN THE HOSPITAL.

THAT'S ARE THINGS, NOT JUST COVID, BUT ANYTHING GOING ON WITH KIDS.

IS KID BREATHING OKAY, DRINKING OKAY, PEEING OKAY.

IF THEY'RE DOING THOSE THINGS REASONABLY NORMALLY, YOU CAN CALL THE DOCTOR, TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU MIGHT TO DO, BUT IF THOSE THINGS ARE OUT OF WHACK, THEY NEED TO BE SEEN RIGHT AWAY.

>> MAYBE YOU TOUCHED ON THIS EARLIER, DOCTOR, BUT YOU BROKE UP A LITTLE, BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE AN EXPLOSION OF ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION IN THE LAND, ESPECIALLY AMONG KIDS.

WE'RE ALSO UNDERSTANDING IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND A THERAPIST AND IF YOU DO FIND A THERAPIES, THE TREATMENT WILL ALWAYS -- FIND A THERAPIST, THE TREATMENT WILL ALMOST ALWAYS BE TELEHEALTH, NOT NO PERSON.

WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS?

>> IF THIS PANDEMIC HAS DONE ANYTHING, IT HAS REALLY POINTED OUT THE GAPS WE HAVE IN OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND MENTAL HEALTH HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PROBLEM IN THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND THAT'S A PARTICULAR PROBLEM FOR KIDS AND ADOLESCENTS.

BUT I'LL TELL YOU EVEN BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, IT WAS REALLY HARD FOR THOSE OF US IN PRIMARY CARE PEDIATRICS, IF A KID NEEDS TO BE A THERAPIST, EITHER A PSYCHOLOGIST OR PSYCHIATRIST OR LICENSED CLINIC SOCIAL WORKER TO FIND SOMEONE WHO CAN SEE THEM AND HAVE INSURANCE PAY FOR IT.

AND THAT'S GONE WHERE IS.

AS YOU SAID, THE NUMBERS HAVE GONE UP PROBABLY CAUSE THE TIME THAT KIDS SPENT AT HOME AWAY FROM THEIR FRIENDS AND JUST COOPED UP AND ALSO JUST BECAUSE OF THE ANXIETY OF LIVING IN THESE TIMES.

HEARING ABOUT THESE THINGS IN THE MEDIA AND REALLY BEING WORRIED ABOUT IT.

WE HAVE VERY HIGH RATES OF DEPRESSION OF, YOU KNOW, AND OTHER DYSTHYMIC SYMPTOMS.

I KNOW THOSE OF US IN PRIMARY CARE PRACTICE AT CARDINAL GLENNON, WE GIVE TEENAGERS A NINE-QUESTION QUESTIONNAIRE, DO YOU HAVE PROBLEMS SLEEPING, FEELING DEPRESSED, AND THOSE SCORES ARE GOING UP.

WE ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE THERAPISTS WE CAN REFER KIDS TO, BUT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT AS WE GO THROUGH THIS, WE REALLY NEED TO LOOK AT THIS.

MENTAL HEALTH IS HEALTH AND WE ARE NOT ADDRESSING IT AND WE HAVEN'T ADDRESSED IT EFFECTIVELY AND I WISH I HAD A BETTER ANSWER FOR WHAT TO DO RIGHT NOW, BUT WE REALLY NEED TO INVEST IN THIS MORE AS WE GO FORWARD.

>> HEAR HEAR.

WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I'M AFRAID THE UNFORGIVING CLOCK, DOCTOR, SAYS OUR TIME IS UP, BUT THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING BILL AND ME ON NEXT UP AND SHARING THIS IMPORTANT INFORMATION, AND I HOPE WE CAN DO IT AGAIN SOON.

>> MY PLEASURE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANKS, DOCTOR.

AND THANKS, EVERYBODY, FOR JOINING US.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK AT THIS TIME.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.