>> JARED BOWEN: I'm Jared Bowen.

Coming up on Open Studio, Central Square Theater takes flight with a new staging of Angels in America.

Then we mark National Poetry Month with poet and National Book Award winner Martín Espada.

>> Poetry is able to do something to move people.

It's able to do something that gets behind or inside the headlines.

>> BOWEN: And the iceberg cometh.

How one artist looks at the ravages of climate change.

It's all now on Open Studio.

♪ ♪ First up, Angels in America.

Tony Kushner wrote the Pulitzer Prize-winning play more than 30 years ago in response to the AIDS crisis.

Set in 1985 in New York City, it is the fantastical story of Prior Walter, a gay man living with AIDS, is visited by an angel.

The play explores relationships, Reagan-era conservatism, and a country that is in the throes of social turmoil.

It premiered in 1991.

A 2018 Broadway revival earned the play three Tony Awards, and it was the 2003 HBO miniseries, directed by Mike Nichols, that helped to make this work a cultural touchstone.

>> Look up.

Look up.

>> Are you one of those "follow me to the other side" voices?

>> No, I am no night bird.

I am a messenger.

>> BOWEN: Angels in America is now touching down in Cambridge, by way of a new Central Square Theater production.

Eric Tucker, director and star of Angels in America, welcome.

>> Hi, thank you.

>> BOWEN: Zach Fike Hodges, thank you so much for being here today.

>> Hi.

Thank you.

>> BOWEN: Also, of course, appearing in Angels in America.

Eric, I'll start with you.

A Gay Fantasia on National Themes, that's the second part of that title.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> BOWEN: I've always been so struck by that, that word "fantasia," and it must be such a prompt for you as director.

>> Yeah, it actually is.

We started thinking, "Hey, let's not ignore A Gay Fantasia on National Themes."

Because that, when you, it sums it all up perfectly, but also it does kind of flavor it, interestingly enough.

Like, you want to make sure the magic is there and the kind of fabulousness of it is there.

Um, it's so...

It's brilliant.

But we are trying to lean into that.

And I don't want to ignore it, but it's easy to kind of just think, "Oh, Angels in America, we're doing this."

But I think it's a real prompt.

It is a prompt to take that full title and say, "That's the world, though."

You know?

>> BOWEN: Mm.

>> And somehow helps the audience kind of go through that.

>> BOWEN: Where are we located today?

This is a piece that premiered in response to the AIDS epidemic, at a time when AIDS was still ravaging this country... >> Mm-hmm.

>> BOWEN: And the trauma was so real, and people were dying and people were hurting.

And this is a piece that responded to that.

So where does this...

But, of course, it's...

I'll offer the judgment here that this piece absolutely holds up.

But what is the place it has in 2023?

>> Coming through a pandemic with a Republican president like Donald Trump, and the way that it was sort of handled, there are a lot of comparisons to how Reagan handled the AIDS crisis, and it feels like it fits right in.

I mean, with, with the political divide now worse than it's ever been, the amount of people that have died because of COVID...

The, and we all know now many, many, many of the people who died didn't have to die, probably.

So it feels all too real.

And because the writing's so brilliant, it just holds up.

So I think we're right there.

I think it's, I think it could've been written in response to what we're going through now.

And it'll feel very, it'll feel very modern in that way.

>> BOWEN: Well, Zach, what is this world?

How do you feel about this piece?

And in telling this story, being part of telling this story today?

>> To be a part of telling this story as a, you know, a queer Jewish actor, it means a lot to me personally.

But the opening up and widening out of, you know, the political world that Kushner writes a lot about and talks a lot about feels like the same thing we want to do as storytellers, of, like, how do we take this moment in time and deepen it, widen it, and open it outwards so that other people are invited in and can share in that story?

>> Hmm.

>> 'Cause it's, it's a big one.

(laughs) >> BOWEN: Your character... >> Yeah.

>> BOWEN: ...speaking of Tony Kushner, the playwright, many people have said is Tony Kushner.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> BOWEN: The language that comes out of his mouth, how political he is in this play.

>> Yes, yeah.

>> BOWEN: How do you bear that responsibility?

>> I see Tony in this character... >> Mm.

>> ...just the way he chooses to embody space and, and whatnot.

But it's also something that I'm not trying to, like, think too much about, just because, like, Louis isn't thinking, "I'm Tony Kushner."

(laughs) You know, I think Louis is just trying to figure things out.

And I think... >> BOWEN: But he struggles.

He's, he's highly...

Highly political, but not highly loyal.

>> Yeah, I think he's, he's someone who has a lot of knowledge and a lot of information, but has no answers, you know?

>> Mm.

>> And I think that's a hard place to be, when you know a lot of stuff and don't know what to do with it.

>> BOWEN: Eric, you're quite well-known for your very innovative takes on pieces that we think we know very well.

So can you give us some insight into how, how you started to approach this piece?

>> Well, I wanted...

I've been wanting to do it here and in New York City, in...

In an intimate space, you know?

In a, in a way that...

I feel like for many, many years now, a lot of people have probably seen it on Broadway or in large, in large formats like that.

And it's such a, when it was written, you know, even Tony Kushner talks in the beginning about, you know, seeing...

Sort of letting it be very bare-bones, letting it be, you know, seeing kind of the wires, so to speak, but also then making the magic happen when there's magic.

The words are everything, right?

So I really just thought it would be exciting to approach it almost like it's a workshop.

Like, what would this feel like if you were sort of in the theater and there wasn't, you didn't have, you know, hydraulics and lifts and things at your disposal.

So we sort of approached, like we approach everything, from the text first.

Like, text will be the first priority in the room.

As with everything I do, I don't...

It always sort of veers away and goes into other places in the room, because I really make it with the people in the room, and, and then, and sort of what, where that's going.

>> BOWEN: Did you have any consultation with Tony Kushner?

He's somebody who's, who's quite famous himself for, for tinkering with his works.

>> Yes.

>> BOWEN: Not necessarily with the first part of Angels in America, but somebody who looks back at his work.

>> It's interesting you ask that, because he wants to be part of the process.

So we've, keep putting it off because he, his schedule's busy.

He's a busy guy, getting nominated for Oscars and stuff.

(others laugh) That's, you know, he's got a lot to do, writing Spielberg films.

But he...

He wants to be in that rehearsal process, because he does want to-- he wants to take, see what's happening in this room and go, "Well, that line could be this."

I think that's great that he's, that he thinks it's still a living, breathing thing.

Like, when we talk about the law in the play, you know, Roy says it's a living, breathing thing.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And Tony feels that way about this play, even though it's 30 years old.

And it, I think of everything he's done, and he has so many, this is his baby.

He really-- it's his Death of a Salesman.

And he, I think that's pretty neat, that he...

He feels like it's not done or perfect or, you know, he, and we all think, "What?!"

(others laugh) "It's the greatest thing ever written!"

But, you know, that's, it's his work.

>> BOWEN: We all have to update our, our, the scripts that we've bought over the years.

>> Yeah.

>> BOWEN (chuckling): Uh... Zach, finally, Angels in America.

>> Mm.

>> BOWEN: We started, we'll end with the title.

To you, what does that mean?

Because these are hard...

This is a hard play in so many respects, because the AIDS crisis is working its way through these men.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> BOWEN: And relationships are faltering.

>> Mm.

>> BOWEN: And we, we see what's happening to, to the character who has to be closeted.

I mean, just difficult pieces.

But there is an angel here.

We have to remember that.

>> Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think, you know, I mean, that's one of the great questions of the play, right?

Like, where does this angel come from?

>> Mm.

>> And...

I... Would like to think that the angel is something that's created between everyone, right?

>> Mm.

>> That is a manifestation of, um, legacy, of history, of hope, of, um, you know, humanism.

(chuckles) You know, I think... Louis would argue that, you know, there are no angels in America, right?

We've killed them all off.

The angel of America is our political destiny.

That's what we've given our, our hope to, is, what can we become as a, as a country, or what do we not want to become as a country?

>> Mm.

>> Um... And...

But where is that heart center if it's not in your political destiny?

What else could it be?

I think it could be the ascent of something bigger.

Yeah.

>> Hm.

>> BOWEN: Well, we will hold on to that.

Thank you so much for being here.

I mean, every time I've seen this play, it just, it's so invigorating to, to see it, so I can't wait to see what you're both doing.

Thank you so much.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you, thanks for having us.

>> Yeah.

♪ ♪ >> BOWEN: Next, we mark National Poetry Month with Martín Espada.

His most recent book is called Floaters, the title he gave to a poem he wrote after seeing a devastating photograph of a migrant father and daughter face down in the Rio Grande.

He has been praised for observing where others turn away.

We revisit a conversation that we had with the National Book Award winner in 2022.

Martín Espada, thank you so much for being with us today.

Congratulations on the award.

>> Thank you very much.

>> BOWEN: To begin, because so much of your subject matter deals with human rights and social justice issues, I wonder if you consider that your writing has a very specific purpose and what that purpose serves for you.

>> Well, certainly that is one major purpose of my writing.

It's not the only focus of what I do.

In fact, the book is, includes not only political poems, but love poems, as well.

Of course, this being my book, they're political love poems.

Um, but there's a, there's a broad range.

It's a difficult book to define, even for me.

I will say that this comes from a tradition, and the tradition includes not only poetry, but photography.

Because my father, Frank Espada, was a documentary photographer, created the Puerto Rican Diaspora documentary project, and therefore is a major influence on my work.

>> BOWEN: Well, I was reading about that, and I was quite struck by, by what that thread is between photography and poetry, specifically.

>> There are several threads.

One thread is certainly what we think of as the image.

Now, of course, when I speak of the image in poetry, I'm referring to all five senses, and, as opposed to merely the visual.

But we also must come back to that word "purpose" that you used earlier, because my father's purpose was very focused, as is mine.

His intent was to document the Puerto Rican migration.

So it's about the meeting of art and advocacy.

It's about the meeting of craft and commitment.

>> BOWEN: I wonder how poetry is particularly well suited for, for documenting and mirroring this time and these, these circumstances that we're in today.

>> I think poetry is able to capture certain intangibles.

Certain qualities that are elusive in other media.

Poetry is able to do something to move people.

It's able to do something that gets behind or inside the headlines.

You may have noticed it in the book.

There are many poems that are narrative poems.

These are storytelling poems, but they also have a journalistic quality, and even have journalistic sources, which I cite in the book.

>> BOWEN: To go back to what you just said, in describing your process for finding words and scenes and moments, but, but all senses, do you feel, as you're encapsulating something, as you're describing an environment, a situation, are you, are you there?

Do you smell where you are, do you feel where you are?

>> It's important for me to provide some movement from the general to the specific, from the abstract to the concrete, to put not only myself, but to put the reader or the listener there, too.

Now, there are many circumstances in these poems when I was there.

And it's important to emphasize that when I write such a poem, it's an act of witness.

>> BOWEN: Well, by way of example, let's talk about your poem "Floaters," which, of course, is the title of the book, as well.

And I wonder, take me to that moment when you first saw the photograph that became so indelible, of a father and daughter face down in the Rio Grande.

>> I don't even think I could tell you where I saw it first, because I saw it in so many places all at once.

And it sparked outrage.

It sparked grief.

But it also sparked what we call truther-ism.

"Have ya'll ever seen floaters this clean?

"I'm not trying to be an a$$ "but I HAVE NEVER SEEN FLOATERS LIKE THIS, could this be another edited photo."

So alongside the photograph, there was this commentary, specifically in the "I'm 10-15" Border Patrol Facebook group page, questioning whether this was doctored or staged.

And so I wrote the poem in response to that photograph, but also in response to that Facebook post, the mentality behind it.

>> BOWEN: And finally, I just want to end with, there's a lot of conversation about your work that revolves around activism and our political situation today, but there is a lot of humor in your work.

Is that something that comes naturally?

Is it something that you find as a release valve?

>> It's actually something I have to be careful with, because in some ways it's too easy for me.

I think I have much more to say than simply trying to give someone else a giggle fit.

But, you know, the humor also occurs in poems where the subject matter is otherwise quite serious.

The last poem of the book is called "Letter to My Father."

It's about Hurricane Maria, in Puerto Rico, and I, in the poem, I'm talking to my father's ashes in a box on my bookshelf.

At the same time, I recall my father in the first part of the poem, and some of it is funny.

>> BOWEN: For the most part, when I've interviewed artists over the years, they're reluctant or sometimes can't pick a favorite.

But you have said that that poem, the letter, the letter to your father, is your favorite.

>> To be honest, my favorite changes sometimes.

You know, how could I look at this book and say that the wedding sonnet in the book, the one I read at my own wedding, is not my favorite?

And yet if I had to pick one poem to read, I would read "Letter to My Father."

"You once said: My reward for this life "will be a thousand pounds of dirt shoveled in my face.

"You were wrong.

"You are seven pounds of ashes in a box, "a Puerto Rican flag wrapped around you, "next to a red brick from the house in Utuado where you were born, all crammed together on my bookshelf."

This is a poem that speaks to me, to my father, to our relationship, to my community, to the island, but also to history.

And if there's one poem that I keep coming back to for that reason, it's that one.

>> BOWEN: Martín Espada, thank you again for your work and congratulations again on the award.

>> Thank you very much.

♪ ♪ >> BOWEN: Artist Blane De St. Croix has been to the edge of the Earth to witness the Earth pushed to the edge.

From the glaciers that will be a thing of the past to the not-so-permanent permafrost, he's seen the ravages of manmade climate change up close.

But these images aren't for his eyes only.

They're for ours, too, by way of his museum installations.

I caught up with him in 2020, when his exhibition How to Move a Landscape was on view at Mass MoCA.

To mark Earth Day, we return to that conversation.

Blane De St. Croix, thank you so much for joining us, it's a pleasure to have you here.

>> My pleasure, thank you for the interview.

>> BOWEN: So to, just to start, what's the experience that you want patrons to have at Mass MoCA?

That's the fun of Mass MoCA, is that the exhibition itself is an experience, because of the cavernous size, and then given the scope in which you work, uh, what is it that you're telling visitors?

>> Um, the focus is around land and landscape, and it's driven with a message and content, which is about climate change.

Specifically, uh, I'm focusing on the high Arctic and what's happening to the permafrost.

And my vision is through research, through international scientists up there and what's going on.

So there's two-and-a-half-story, three-story, uh, large landscapes.

Various materials.

I want to make things people-proportion.

I want to take the viewer to the landscape.

I'm talking about landscape that's sometimes a mile and a half long or larger, maybe three miles in circumference.

And so I need to blow it up on these kinds of scale.

And I want the viewer to go on an adventure visually, to transport themselves to that space, that landscape, that environment.

>> BOWEN: Well, this is so much born out of your travels, your experience, your encounters.

What fundamentally did you begin to discover about our planet and, and what was happening to it, that, that motivated you to tell this?

>> You know, my work, early on, has always been about humankind's invention-- our desire to conquer and control the landscape or nature.

Um, and a lot have been complex geopolitical, political issues about border issues and what's been going on.

But I think climate change affects it all.

The future refugee populations, the ability to feed the populations of the world, what is coming is unfathomable.

And I feel, um, a commitment to put a strong voice to it.

>> BOWEN: I'm really struck by your travels, I'm struck by the conversations that you've had.

You're not just relying on what's written.

You're relying on that firsthand material.

You're having these direct conversations with the scientists.

That's taking it into a realm that you didn't have to, necessarily.

>> Yes, well, early on, I used to do what most people do: internet mining, Google searches, finding.

But I'm taking on difficult, complex subjects.

Not breaking them down to a singular soundbite.

So I have a level of responsibility to truly understand as best I can the complexity of what I'm trying to visually talk about to the public.

I also find a level of inspiration when you go to these kinds of landscapes, the high Arctic, and you place yourself there.

And you have a responsibility as...

I want to say the storyteller.

And that's inspiring and also a commitment on my part.

So I have a need to be... Not to be abusive, but a research visual artist, one that goes into the field to find out what's going on.

You know, historically, painters used to do this with plein air, a lot of them-- they used to go into the landscape and document what they visually see.

I'm just loading a little bit more, very important content.

>> BOWEN: What is the process in between those conversations, those observations, versus what we ultimately see in exhibitions like yours at Mass MoCA right now?

Do these ideas germinate with you for a long time, or, or do you leave those conversations with a pretty clear idea of what you want to do?

>> What I'm trying to do is pinpoint conversations visually through the land and landscape that won't escape the psyche of the, the global perspective of the American consciousness.

And I think climate change is as powerful, more powerful than those kinds of issues.

Sometimes in a lecture, people would attack me and say, "You're not a visual artist, you're an activist."

Well, visual artists are the documenters of what culturally is happening in that historical moment.

And that's their responsibility.

>> BOWEN: How do you reach people with movement in your pieces, especially in this show?

>> Some of my pieces I wouldn't say are stagnant, but they're still landscapes.

But what I do do is do architectural intervention.

In other words, the pieces are jammed in, very precarious.

They look like they're going to fall down upon you.

Um, they're wedged into the architecture.

So there's a level of visual discomfort that I'm trying to, um, draw the viewer in unconsciously.

The majority of the materials I'm using in these projects are recycled, are, uh, sensitive to the environment.

And so, it's not just the materials, it's the visual language.

It's the narration.

I'm trying to come at it in many different directions to engage the viewer.

>> BOWEN: And finally, people are able to see your exhibition in this moment of a pandemic.

They might not necessarily equate pandemic and the environment and climate change.

But why is this probably a really apt moment to see your work and understand what's happening to our planet?

>> I don't think the virus is separate from what we're doing to the environment.

I think there are correlations, and most scientists believe it's directly related.

And this kind of tragedy that has, with this virus and the global pandemic, is going to return again, they say, in ten years or plus, or another form.

We have to be responsible to nature in how we participate and take care of this planet.

And, uh, I think it's all related together, without a doubt.

>> BOWEN: All right, well, thank you again so much for taking the time, and hopefully people will pay attention through exhibitions and work like yours to understand it's changing.

>> Thank you very much for the time.

I really appreciate it.

♪ ♪ >> BOWEN: And that is all for this edition of Open Studio.

Tune in next week for a special marking the 50th anniversary of hip-hop.

As always, you can see us first on YouTube.com/gbhnews.

Follow us on Instagram and Twitter, @OpenStudioGBH.

I'm @TheJaredBowen.

And visit us online at GBH.org/OpenStudio.

Until then, I'm Jared Bowen, thanks for joining us.

Every Friday, Jim Braude and Margery Eagan offer up live performances on Boston Public Radio, so we leave you now with cellist Leo Eguchi.

He has commissioned works by immigrant and first-generation American composers tackling the question, "What does your American-ness sound like?"

Here he's performing a work by Kareem Roustom.

(playing slow, gentle piece) (strums) (resumes bowing) (strums) (resumes bowing) (strums) (resumes bowing) (strums) (resumes bowing) (piece continues) (plucks)