[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC STING] - We're joined once again by our good friend from Seton Hall University, Professor Matthew Hale, associate professor at the Department of Political Science and Public Affairs at Seton Hall University, one of our longtime higher-ed partners, good to see you, Matt.

- Hey, good to be here.

- Let's do this, your biggest takeaway, we're gonna talk about energy policy, you did some research funded by the International Union of Operating Engineers Local 825, one of our long-time underwriters, we'll talk about that in a second, but your biggest takeaway, we're taping this a week after the gubernatorial election in New Jersey, your biggest takeaway and message from that election would be?

- That New Jersey really, really doesn't like Donald Trump, I think that Trump was issue number one, two, and three of this election, and the results showed, really, really unpopular, so I think the biggest takeaway is not a Trump state, for sure.

- What do you believe the top two or three issues will be for Governor Sherrill when she takes office in January 20th, 2026?

- Certainly think it's gonna be energy policy, affordability, anything she can do with NJ transit, I think the most important issues or things, quality of life, day-to-day, New Jersey-focused issues, I think those are gonna be the most important.

- Yeah, let's go back to energy, so Greg Lalevee, our mutual friend over at 825, was talking to me about this, and there's been all kinds of, excuse me, discussion and a lot of confusion around energy policy.

You conducted some research funded by 825, International Union of Operating Engineers Local 825, on energy policy in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and New York.

Matt, the most significant findings would be?

- So I think the biggest thing is I looked at decision-making over 10 years, and so, it was a long-term decision, and I think that the biggest takeaway is that New Jersey did not have a plan B, they put all of their eggs in one basket with wind power.

No wind power got built, no energy got created, and I think that's a big reason why we've got higher energy prices.

It's clearly not the only reason, but it was an all-or-nothing strategy and I think we're suffering for it.

- What did Pennsylvania and/or New York do differently?

- Well, you know, Pennsylvania actually closed more coal plants than New York or New Jersey combined, they had more to start with, but they actually closed more coal plants, but when they close a fossil fuel like coal, they transition it to natural gas, and then, when they close a natural gas, they transition it to something else, so they sort of had this kind of off-ramp, a way towards, getting towards more renewables, but doing it in a way that energy supply wasn't gonna go down, and I think that's sort of the biggest lesson, is that, yes, everybody wants to get to renewable energies, but there's a pathway that needs to be followed and that includes doing things until we get to the renewable goals.

- Matt, talk to us about nuclear energy and New Jersey energy policy moving forward from your perspective, if you were advising the new governor in this regard.

- I actually would say that she should start the process for a new nuclear power plant as soon as possible, I think that she should come out of the gate saying, "This is something..." It takes a long time for that to happen, it's not gonna happen tomorrow, but I think announcing that that's a goal, I think, would be a great way for her to start.

You know, I also think that there's some new types of nuclear energy, there's small modular reactors, which are not the big, you know, sort of ones that you think about, they're not quite neighborhood but they tend to be smaller, those are starting to be something we ought to look at quite a bit, so I think nuclear is a big part of the energy future, but it takes a while and it's gotta get started.

- Speaking about taking a while, the governor has said, Governor-elect as we speak, as we're taping, but she'll be the governor.

Mikie Sherrill has talked about reducing, well, freezing utility costs, energy costs on day one.

What can she do on day one, and what can't she do on day one?

- Well, she can certainly try the process of freezing energy costs, my first thought of it was that it was a jobs program for lawyers, but I also... - Why is that, Matt?

- Because I actually think that there's gonna be litigation almost immediately if something like that happens, but I think the way to think about that idea is that this is a negotiated process, she's negotiating with transmitters, negotiating with PJM, with BPU... - Hold on, let's watch out for the acronyms, P... Explain to folks who PJM are.

- That... So PJM is the regional grid that takes care of about 13 or 14 states, that manages energy supply and prices, and it's a complicated process about how prices are set, and the reason why her concept of freezing on day one is that's part of a strategy for getting PJM, or PSE&G, or BPU, those are all... - The Board of Public Utilities.

- The Board of Public Utilities, those are all things that she's gonna have to negotiate with over the next several years, so saying we're gonna stop immediately is a great opening move to say, "We've got this as a high priority, so let's figure out how to get costs down with all the different entities."

- Matt, with your research on energy policy in New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania, to what degree did you take into account artificial intelligence and the massive amount of energy being consumed, used and taken up through AI?

- So it is without a doubt that AI is growing and the energy needs are growing, and they only get bigger and bigger.

One of the interesting things about data centers is that they can be self-contained energy grids.

They can have their own energy source, so it's whether or not they need to tap into the grid, maybe there's other ways that they can provide energy, solar on the roofs and all of those things.

- Oh, solar what?

- Solar on top of the roof of a data center, right?

I mean, there are some sort of creative things that you can do, but we absolutely need to make sure that we're competitive for those because that's a big part of the future.

- Matt, before I let you go, The future of public media in the state of New Jersey, as we speak, is challenged.

Those of us in public media are gonna be a part of that solution.

Let folks understand why it's critically important that New Jersey has a meaningful, independent public media operation, regardless of who operates it, for our representative democracy to be healthy.

- New Jersey does not have its own broadcast media market, we get things from New York and we get things from Philadelphia, having a public media in, based in New Jersey is where New Jersey news happens, I've done research on this, I did it in the past, New Jersey public television stations cover New Jersey in a way that New York and Philadelphia just don't, and I think that's really essential because it is a big state.

You know, one of the things that that used to be true is that New Jersey has less broadcast stations than North Nebraska, and that seems insane to me, but it's because we're next to the two big cities, New Jersey public media and having a public media is essential to having an informed populace about New Jersey - Devil's advocate, 30 seconds or less, someone says, "I get my information from TikTok, I get my information from my algorithm..." "The algorithm on my phone," what's the issue with that?

- That you get it from TikTok and the algorithm, the problem is, is you're being fed information rather than you're having time to digest information, public media and broadcast television go into way more depth, way more both sides of an issue, to have a complete understanding of what's going on on any issue, I think you need more depth than you're gonna get in TikTok and I think public media is a way to make that happen.

- And you're never gonna find an interview this long on TikTok.

- Absolutely, we'd be done a long time... We would be done a long time ago.

- And then, we don't apologize for that.

That's Professor, Dr.

Matthew Hale, associate professor of the Department of Political Science and Public Affairs at our higher-ed partner, at Seton Hall University, thanks, Matt, we'll talk soon.

- All right, thanks, Steve, talk to you later.

- You got it.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

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