THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY.•• FIRST, THE LIST OF HIGH PROFILE MEN ACCUSED OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND ASSAULT CONTINUES TO GROW.

HOW WILL IT CHANGE SOCIETY AND THE WORKPLACE?

BEHIND THE HEADLINES: IMAGINING A WORLD WHERE MEN AND WOMEN ARE EQUAL HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY, A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, THE OUTING OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

THE PAST COUPLE WEEKS MAY PROVE TO BE A DAM-BUSTING MOMENT IN AMERICAN SEXUAL POLITICS.

WORKPLACE SEXUAL HARASSMENT IS BEING SCRUTINIZED AND ITS ALLEGED PERPETRATORS OUTED AND PUNISHED AS NEVER BEFORE.

IT STARTED WITH THE FIRING OF SUPERSTAR HOLLYWOOD PRODUCER HARVEY WEINSTEIN, MORE RECENTLY NATIONAL PUBLIC'S RADIO'S NEWS CHIEF MICHAEL ORESKES, AND IN BETWEEN AMAZON STUDIO CHIEF ROY PRICE, ACADEMY AWARD WINNERS DUSTIN HOFFMAN AND KEVIN SPACEY; EVEN FORMER PRESIDENT GEORGE H.W.

BUSH.

THEY'VE ALL BEEN ACCUSED OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND OR ASSAULT.

WILL THESE CASES CHANGE IN AMERICAN ATTITUDES IN BUSINESS AND POLITICS TOWARDS PROTECTING ACCUSERS AND QUICKLY FIRING SERIAL ABUSERS?

EXPERTS SAY IT'S POSSIBLE.

LARGE COMPANIES ARE ADOPTING PROGRAMS THAT FIGHT SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

CONGRESS IS REVIEWING ITS POLICIES ON SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

WARP SPEED INTERNET PROMOTION OF ACCUSATIONS AND WOMEN - WHO MAKE UP THE MAJORITY OF TARGETS - MAY PUSH US INTO AN ERA DURING WHICH THIS CRIME WILL NO LONGER BE TOLERATED.

BUT CRITICS WARN PREVIOUS TURNING POINTS HAVE BEEN FALSE DAWNS.

THE MOST CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATES SAY THAT 25 PERCENT OF WOMEN FACE HARASSMENT IN THE WORKPLACE.

THE ACTUAL NUMBER IS THOUGHT TO BE MUCH HIGHER SINCE MOST VICTIMS DON'T COME FORWARD.

SO CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON ARE WE AT A TURN OF TURNING POINT?

>> BONNIE SOMETHING DIFFERENT IS HAPPENING.

WITNESS THAT WHEN MEN ARE CALLED OUT MORE SEEMED TO BE CONFESSING.

>> I THINK I'M NOT SURE IT IS A TURNING POINT YET.

IT REMINDS ME OF A FEW YEARS BUT WHEN TIGER WOODS HIT A TREE AND ALL THE WOMEN FELL OUT SO WE ARE AT A MOMENT.

>> DO NOT BANK ON IT.

REMEMBER IN 1992 WHEN HAVE FLAT LINED WOMEN IN OFFICE SINCE THEN.

>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT WHAT YOU ARE SEEING ARE ACCUSATIONS OF SERIAL ABUSE.

YOU FIND WOMEN FIND SAFETY IN NUMBERS.

ONE WOMAN STEP OUT AND OTHERS BEHIND THEM BUT IT IS A QUESTION OF WHETHER THE WOMEN KNEW ABOUT EACH OTHER PRIOR TO THAT.

THERE'S SAFETY IN THEM STEPPING OUT AND KNOWING THERE WILL BE OTHERS BEHIND THEM.

>> AND WHAT I SEE WITH NPR, THE MIA KULPAS FOR IGNORING EARLIER ACCUSATIONS ARE BENDING OVER BACKWARDS NOW TO MAKE SURE THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN AGAIN AND THEY ARE FEELING VERY GUILTY ABOUT IT.

>> ONE IS TIME.

THE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE TALKING ABOUT TIME.

IN THAT ERA, I DID NOT KNOW BETTER.

THAT IS HOW THINGS USED TO BE AND NOW I'M REALIZING MY WRONGS WE HEARD THAT FROM MARK HALPRIN, I REALIZED THAT I HAD A PROBLEM.

WHEN YOU WERE DOING IT YOU DID NOT REALIZE YOU HAD A PROBLEM?

>> THIS IS GOING TO HELP AT LEAST IN THE CORPORATE WORLD, IT'S GOING TO HELP COMPANIES GIVE MORE CREDENCE TO THE ACCUSATIONS AND REALIZE THEY WILL LOOK BAD IF THEY TRY TO OVERLOOK THE ACCUSATIONS.

I THINK THAT WILL BE ONE ASPECT THAT WILL CHANGE.

>> I THINK IT WILL CHANGE, I AGREE WITH THAT BECAUSE OF THE VARIETY OF INDUSTRIES THIS IS COMING OUT, ENTERTAINMENT, JOURNALISM, POLITICS.

>> GOVERNMENT.

>> AND THE DIFFICULTY IS, AND REMEMBER WHEN I BECAME CHAIR OF THE EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION THIS WAS NOT EVEN CONSIDERED A -- DISCRIMINATION.

WE ISSUED GUIDELINES FOR THE FIRST TIME SAID THAT SEXUALLY HARASSMENT WAS A VIOLATION OF TITLE VII 1964 CIVIL RIGHTS ACT.

I CANNOT CONSIDER THIS PROGRESS RAPID BECAUSE IT'S TAKEN SO LONG FRANKLY FOR MEN TO DO ANYTHING.

AND THE REASON IT'S TAKEN LONG AND I THINK IT WILL CONTINUE IS THAT THIS IS A ONE-ON-ONE UNWITNESSED VIOLATION.

AND THAT'S WHAT IS SO REMARKABLE ABOUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED.

THESE MEN SOME OF THEM, ARE CONFESSING EVEN THOUGH THE ONLY PERSON WHO KNOWS IT'S TRUE IS THE WOMAN AND OF COURSE THEY THEMSELVES.

WHEN THEY FEEL THEY HAVE TO COME UP AND WHEN CORPORATIONS FEEL THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT RATHER THAN KEEPING THEM ON BECAUSE IT WAS AN UNWITNESSED VIOLATION, THAT IS PROGRESS.

>> HOW IS THE FACT THAT UNLIKE BILL CLINTON AND BUSH WHO -- BUSH SENIOR WHO WERE NOT ELECTED BEFORE THE COUNTRY KNEW THAT THEY HAD EVER BEEN ABUSERS IN CLINTON'S CASE OBVIOUSLY SERIALLY AND HW BUSH JUST ONE THAT WE KNOW ABOUT.

>> WHICH WAS RECENT.

>> AND ALL THIS STUFF CAME OUT ABOUT TRUMP INCLUDING THE TAPE SAYING -- AND WE STILL -- AND HE WAS STILL ELECTED.

SO WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT HOW MUCH PROGRESS WE CAN MAKE ON THAT FRONT?

>> YES, BUT HE WAS NOT ELECTED BY THE MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRY.

I THINK THE MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRY WAS OUTRAGED BY THE TRUMP TAPES.

WHAT IS IMPORTANT HERE, THOUGH, AND WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE ONE-ON-ONE ACCUSATION ISSUES AND THE INSTANCES WE'VE SEEN WITH THE EXCEPTION OF FORMER PRESIDENT BUSH IT'S BEEN MULTIPLE WOMEN STEPPING FORWARD.

AND WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN IS APOLOGIES.

SO AGAIN HISTORIC PRECEDENCE BUT YOU SEE THIS IN ENTITIES AND INDIVIDUALS WHERE IT'S SYSTEMIC AND THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.

YOU HAVE WOMEN FEELING COMFORTABLE SPEAKING OUT WHEN THEY KNOW ABOUT EACH OTHER.

>> PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS ACCUSATIONS OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND ASSAULT WE WILL FIND OUT BUT IT MAY BE IN COURT LAWSUITS WHAT IS THAT GOING TO DO?

>> I THINK THE TRUMP IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE.

I THINK IT'S REALLY EASY TO GET COMPLACENT AND NAIVE IN A MOMENT LIKE THIS WHERE WE SAY IT'S GOING TO BE FIXED WE ARE OFF AND RUNNING WHEN NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.

AND PART OF THE PROBLEM IS WOMEN DRINK JUST AS DEEPLY FROM SEXIST WATER AS MAN DO.

>> WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

>> IF A WOMAN DOESN'T, HERSELF, RECOGNIZE THAT WHAT IS COMING AT HER IS UNACCEPTABLE AND SEXIST AND ACCEPTS IT AS BOYS WILL BE BOYS, RIGHT, WHICH IS, I THINK THE FRUIT BASKET THAT TRUMP HIDES BEHIND.

HE IS THE UNCLE THAT BEHAVES POORLY AT FAMILY REUNION PICNICS.

THERE ARE SO MANY WOMEN THAT VOTED FOR HIM DESPITE THE OUTRAGE.

I THINK IT IS DANGEROUS IN A TIME LIKE THIS THAT WE THINK THE JOB IS DONE.

IN A MOMENT LIKE THIS WHAT WE HAVE TO GO IS THE JOB HAS STARTED AND LET'S RUN WITH THIS.

>> IF THE COURT RULES IN FAVOR OF ALLOWING THOSE LAWSUITS TO GO FORWARD AND THE INSIDE TALK IS THAT IT WILL, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO SEE THE LAWSUITS GO TO TRIAL?

OR HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO BUY THE WOMEN OFF?

AND IF SO MESSAGE FROM THAT?

>> THE SUITS RARELY GO TO FRUITION BECAUSE OF QUESTIONS OF PROOF.

AGAIN, I GO BACK TO THE ONE-ON-ONE NOTION BUT IN TERMS OF WOMEN, YOU SPEAK A LITTLE TOO MUCH AS IF TO BLAME THE VICTIM.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT REAL DIFFERENCES IN POWER HERE.

AND HIERARCHY, THE NOTION THAT WOMEN ARE PARTLY RESPONSIBLE I REJECT.

>> HOLD ON I AM THE VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE AND OUTSPOKEN.

WHAT I'M SPEAKING TO WE HAVE TO PREVENT THE NAIVETE ABOUT THE CULTURE WE ARE IN.

WE ARE IN A SEXIST CULTURE.

WE VIEW THESE BEHAVIORS AS MISBEHAVIORS NOT MISCONDUCTS IT IS A BIG DIFFERENCE THERE.

WHAT I THINK IS POSITIVE TO YOUR POINT, BONNIE, IS THERE ARE PEOPLE COMING FORWARD THERE ARE RESIGNATIONS, THAT IS ALL GOOD MOMENTUM.

WE CANNOT CONSTITUENT ON OUR LAURELS AND ASSUME THAT IT WILL HAPPEN.

>> MY GENERATION YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT.

I WAS SEXUALLY HARASSED 30 YEARS AGO AND I TOOK IT, I THOUGHT ABOUT FILING A LAWSUIT AGAINST THE MAJOR CORPORATION I WAS WORKING FOR AT THE TIME.

MY CAREER WOULD HAVE BEEN OVER.

SO IT WAS LIKE TOUGHEN UP AND GET OVER IT.

>> THIS ME TOO CAMPAIGN THAT CAUGHT FIRE ON TWITTER AND Facebook AND I MEAN THERE WERE WOMEN COMING OUT WITH STORIES THAT I NEVER ASSUMED HAD A STORY LIKE THIS.

BUT THE PROBLEM WITH THAT WAS THAT THERE'S STILL SO MANY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF WOMEN WHO COULD NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE CAMPAIGN BECAUSE OF THE PROFESSIONAL PROBLEMS THAT THEY WOULD CAUSE THEMSELVES BY COMING OUT AND SAYING THIS HAPPENED.

>> IS THAT CHANGING?

>> NOT ANYTIME SOON.

>> I MEAN WE DON'T KNOW THIS IS NOT SOMETHING PEOPLE WANT TO TALK ABOUT.

WE HAVE SEEN INSTANCES OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN SILICON VALLEY AMONG INVESTORS.

YOU'VE SEEN IT IN HOLLYWOOD: YOU'VE SEEN IT IN THE MEDIA WORLD.

WE ARE NOT SEEING THIS IN RANK-AND-FILE COMPANIES ACROSS AMERICA.

WHY NOT?

IS IT BECAUSE IT'S NOT HAPPENING?

I DOUBT IT.

>> AND HERE WE HAVE CALIFORNIA INARGUABLY THE MOST LIBERAL STATE IN OUR UNION THAT IS HOME TO SOME OF THE MOST EGREGIOUS INDUSTRIES WHEN IT COMES TO SEXISM IN THE FORM OF TECH.

>> AND THE WOMEN WHO ARE SPEAKING UP ARE NOT SPEAKING UP ABOUT CONCURRENT SEXUAL HARASSMENT THEY ARE SPEAKING UP ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM YEARS AGO.

AND THE RANK-AND-FILE CAN'T IS BECAUSE OF THE DISPARITIES IN POWER AND THEY ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO EXIST.

>> CHERYL SANDBURG'S ANSWER IS TO FIRE PEOPLE WHO HELPED HIDE LIKE HARVEY WEINSTEIN HAD ALL THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM WHO SETUP HOTEL ROOMS AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.

AND FIRE THOSE PEOPLE IF THEY DON'T COME FORWARD.

>> HER GOAL IS NOBLE BUT THAT IS TOUGH TO DO, TOO.

HARVEY WEINSTEIN'S ASSISTANT WAS A FEMALE WHO KNOWS HOW SHE FELT.

IT WAS A JOB.

SHE HAD TO DO WHAT HER BOSS ASKED HER TO DO.

TO SAY SHE WAS A VILLAIN IN THE STORY WE WILL NEVER KNOW.

AND THAT HAS TO GET LITIGATED SOMEWHERE ELSE.

THE REALITY IS AND THIS IS SURPRISING TO ME LAST MONTH, PEW RESEARCH UNVEILED A STUDY THAT SAID MILLENNIAL WOMEN THINK MEN HAVE IT EASIER AND THAT IS PART OF THE PROBLEM WE STILL THINK THAT MEN DO HAVE IT EASIER.

>> EASIER IN WHAT WAY?

>> IN GENERAL.

IN GENERAL.

IN THE WORKPLACE AND LIFE.

>> FOR THEM TO GET AHEAD.

>> EXACTLY.

SO I THINK THAT THAT MENTALITY MILLENNIAL WOMEN WHO ARE MORE LIKELY TO CALL IT OUT AND ARE THE ONES LIKE TAKING THIS TO TASK, OR AT LEAST LEADING THE WAY, IT'S TOUGH WHEN THAT IS YOUR WORLD VIEW.

>> ON YOUR SIDE OF THE TABLE, WILL REPUBLICAN WOMEN CHIME IN AND JOIN WITH FEMINISTS ON THE LEFT FIGHTING THIS PROBLEM?

OR ARE THEY -- BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WHEN IT COMES TO CHOICE THERE IS A HUGE DIVIDE BETWEEN WOMEN AND THAT IS PARTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR WHY WHEN ROE WAS HANDED DOWN IN THE 70s, THERE WAS A LOT MORE CHOICE THAN THERE IS NOW.

>> I DON'T WANT TO PAINT WITH A BROAD BRUSH.

I KNOW A CROP OF REPUBLICAN WOMEN WHO ARE YOUNGER AND I CAN ONLY SPEAK FROM MY GENERATION, AND I CAN SAY WE ARE GOING TO CALL IT OUT WHEN WE THINK THE TIME IS RIGHT AND WHEN WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY.

>> SO IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUE OF SEXISM AND I THINK GENERATION ALI THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE.

I KNOW THAT BY AND LARGE, I THINK PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE RAISING THEIR CHILDREN SO THEY ARE MUCH MORE AGNOSTIC ON THE QUESTION OF SEX AND WHO IS BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE, SAME THING FOR RACE.

BUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE CAREFULLY STUDIED AND WATCHED MOST CAREFULLY, IS THE FACT THAT WOMEN NOW ARE THE MAJORITY GOING -- THEY ARE 10% MORE LIKELY TO GRADUATE FROM COLLEGE THAN MEN.

AND ALSO LETS SAY LAW SCHOOL LAST YEAR YOU HAD THE MAJORITY OF WOMEN -- >> ALL THE TECH ISSUES, SCIENCE, MATH, ET CETERA, WOMEN ARE WAY BEHIND.

>> TRUE BUT THE NUMBERS ARE CREEPING UP.

>> THE REPUBLICAN CHAIRS IN THE SENATE AND IN THE HOUSE BASED ON THE OUTCRY ARE NOW BEGINNING TO LOOK AT SEXUAL HARASSMENT CHANGES MUST BE MADE IN THE CONGRESS.

I HAVE SENT OUT A DEAR COLLEAGUE LETTER TO MY COLLEAGUES, DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICANS SAYING WE CANNOT WAIT AND BE SURE A BILL WILL GO THROUGH.

THERE IS TRAINING ON-LINE THAT IS PUT OUT BY THE HOUSE ITSELF.

AND YOU SHOULD HAVE EVERYBODY ON YOUR STAFF AND TAKE THIS TRAINING SO YOU CAN RECOGNIZE.

>> YOU DON'T THINK HARVEY WEINSTEIN KNEW ABOUT TRAINING?

AND BILL O'REILLY?

>> TRAINING DONE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR.

NO TRAINING IS DONE IN THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH AND THAT IS THE ONLY PLACE WHERE NO TRAINING IS DONE.

AND DON'T THINK SEXUAL HARASSMENT IS EASY TO SPOT.

IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHAT IT IS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

SO THAT YOU KNOW WHAT TO CALL OUT AND SAY THANK YOU, NO.

>> SO ON TO OUR NEXT TOPIC.

PLEASE LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND @BONNIEERBE.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES: CATHERINE MAYER.

IS AN AMERICAN BORN BRITISH JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR WHO IS SUING TIME MAGAZINE.

SHE SAYS SHE NEVER PLANNED TO GO PUBLIC WITH HER LAWSUIT.

BUT NOW THAT IT'S ON THE RECORD SHE'S NOT SORRY AND IS USING IT TO PROMOTE HER MESSAGE OF CREATING A GENDER EQUAL WORLD.

>> I WORKED AT TIME MAGAZINE FROM 2004-2015 AND WHEN I LEFT IN 2015, IT WAS NOT VOLUNTARY.

IT WAS FRAMED BY THE COMPANY AS A REDUNDANCY.

BUT I NEVER EVER BOUGHT INTO THE IDEA THAT IT WAS A REAL REDUNDANCY.

>> CATHERINE MAYER SAID SHE WAS SIDELINED BY A YOUNGER MALE COLLEAGUE AND REMOVED FROM HER DUTIES AS A EUROPEAN REGIONAL EDITOR DUE TO HER AGE AND GENDER.

>> SO I WAS VERY NERVOUS ABOUT GOING PUBLIC WITH IT.

WHAT I DIDN'T EXPECT WAS THE RESPONSE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE GOT IN TOUCH TO SAY WHEN I READ YOUR COMPLAINT, I FELT LIKE I WAS READING MY OWN STORY.

>> CATHERINE MAYER SAYS THE DISCRIMINATION AND LACK OF DIVERSITY SHE EXPERIENCED IN THE NEWSROOM IS SIMILAR PO POLITICS N2015 CATHERINE MAYER HELPED LAUNCH A NEW POLITICAL PARTY IN THE UK AND IDEA THAT CAME TO HER WHILE AT AN EVENT FOR WOMEN IN POLITICS.

THERE WERE WOMEN FROM THE MAIN THREE PARTIES TALKING ABOUT WHAT THEIR PARTIES WOULD DO IF THEY WERE ELECTED FOR WOMEN.

INSTEAD OF THE AUDITORIUM FULL OF WOMEN MOSTLY WOMEN, THERE WERE A FEW MEN, GETTING EXCITED BY THESE VIBRANT WOMEN ON STAGE THEY WERE INCREASINGLY, DEPRESSED.

AND I HEARD WOMEN TALKING ABOUT NOT VOTING AT ALL.

>> CATHERINE MAYER COFOUNDED THE WOMEN'S EQUALITY PARTY AND WITHIN A FEW DAYS 5,000 PEOPLE FOLLOWED THE Facebook PAGE.

IT FOCUSES ON SEVEN ISSUES INCLUDING EQUAL PAY AND OPPORTUNITY, EQUAL EDUCATION FOR GIRLS AND AN END TO VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN.

>> WE BELIEVE WE WOULD GET CLOSE TO GENDER EQUALITY.

>> THE VISION OF A GENDER EQUAL WORLD INFLUENCED CATHERINE MAYER'S LATEST BOOK.

IN IT SHE EXPLORES WOMEN'S GLOBAL PROGRESS AND HOW TO MOVE TOWARDS A SEXISM FREE SOCIETY.

>> I WANTED TO MAKE VISIBLE THE MECHANISMS THAT ARE HOLDING WOMEN BACK EVERYWHERE.

BUT I ALSO WANTED TO HELP PEOPLE ENVISION WHAT A GENDER EQUAL WORLD WOULD LOOK LIKE BECAUSE AS I SAID BEFORE THERE IS NO SUCH PLACE ANYWHERE.

>> CATHERINE MAYER SAYS SHE EXPECTED WE WOULD BE CLOSER TO EQUALITY BY NOW AND BE MONIES A BACKSLIDE IN WOMEN'S RIGHTS BUT BELIEVES THERE WILL BE AN UPSIDE TO THE TURBULENCE.

>> I DID NOT WELCOME THE POLITICAL DEVELOPMENTS IN THIS COUNTRY OR BREXIT WHICH HOLDS DANGERS FOR WOMEN.

BUT IT IS ALSO WORTH SAYING THAT THE ONLY TIMES I HAVE BEEN VERY SIGNIFICANT LEAPS FORWARD FOR WOMEN HAVE BEEN AT TIMES OF TURBULENCE BECAUSE TIMES OF TURBULENCE SIGNAL THE BREAKING DOWN OF THE STRUCTURES THAT HOLDS WOMEN BACK.

>> THE WOMEN'S EQUALITY PARTY FIELDED CANDIDATES IN 2016 AND 2017.

THEY DID NOT WINNIE SEATS BUT MORE THAN 350,000 VOTERS CAST BALLOTS FOR THEIR CANDIDATES.

OTHER PARTIES ARE A.

DOING SOME OF HER PARTY'S CORE OBJECTIVES.

AND WHILE SHE IS IN SEARCH OF A GENDER EQUAL WORLD, MAYER KNOWS IT DOES NOT INSURE A PERFECT WORLD.

>> WOULD A GENDER EQUAL WORLD BE A WORLD LESS INCLINED TO RACISM FOR EXAMPLE?

DO YOU SOLVE OTHER PROBLEMS WHEN YOU SOLVE THE GENDER EQUALITY ONE?

I AM AHE NOT PRETENDING THAT IT'S PERFECT AND NOT PRETENDING THAT IF YOU SOLVE GENDER EQUALITY YOU SOLVE EVERYTHING BECAUSE YOU DON'T.

BUT IT IS A HELL OF A LOT BETTER THAN THE WORLD WE LIVE IN NOW.

>> AND THE QUESTION TO YOU SAM IS WILL WE EVER GET THERE?

OR IS IT JUST A FANTASY?

>> I THINK THE WAY WE DON'T GET THERE IS TO ASSUME IT WILL HAPPEN ORGANICALLY.

I REFERRED TODAY.

THE YEAR OF THE WOMAN 1992, WE ELECTED A RECORD NUMBER OF WOMEN ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, HOPE, PROMISE WE ARE ON OUR WAY AND NOTHING HAPPENED IN THE 25 YEARS SINCE THEN.

OUR BIGGEST DANGER HERE IS COMPLACENCY.

ORGANIC CHANGE IS A FALSE DAWN.

THE ONLY WAY WE MAKE PROGRESS IS TO INSIST ON IT.

WITH WHAT IS FASCINATING -- >> THE MOMENTUM.

CLEARLY WOMEN IN THIS COUNTRY THE DAY AFTER TRUMP'S INAUGURAL MORE THAN A MILLION WOMEN BIGGEST MARCH EVER IS THAT BEING FUNNELED SOMEWHERE?

IS THAT MUSCLE BEING KEPT IN SHAPE?

>> WHEN IT TALKS ABOUT MUSCLE -- A LOT OF THE NATIONS WE ARE RANKED 86 IN THE WORLD OF THE WOMEN IN ELECTED OFFICE.

AND MOST OF THE NATIONS HAVE QUOTAS.

PARLIAMENTARY SYSTEMS WHERE QUOTAS ARE EASY TO EFFECT.

BUT THE STRONGEST NATIONS ARE THE SKWAND NATIVIAN NATIONS WHERE THE QUOTAS DO NOT EXIST BUT THERE IS A COMMITMENT BY WOMEN LEADERS AND ORGANIZATIONS -- >> I HAVE BEEN TOLD THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US AND THEM IS THEY ARE HOMOGENIUS.

>> THEY ARE SWEDISH PEOPLE ARE ALL WHITE AND BLOND FOR THE MOST PART AND THAT IS NOT US.

>> BUT WHAT EXISTS THERE THAT DOES NOT EXIST HERE IS AN UNWAFERRING COMMITMENT BY WOMEN LEADERS I'M NOT SAYING ELLIE SMEL DOES NOT DO EXCEPTIONAL WORK.

BUT THERE IS NOT THE HEFT TO IT.

WE NEED THINGS THAT CARRY THE MOMENTUM FORWARD AND MY SOAPBOX IS THE MOST IMPORTANT MOMENTUM IS AT THIS TABLE.

IF WE ALL MADE SURE THAT WE ENCOURAGED THE WOMEN TO GET INVOLVED IN POLITICS AND DID THAT WITHOUT WAVERING, WE COULD EFFECT A SEA CHANGE.

POLITICS, BONNIE, IS THE QUICKEST WAY WE CAN EFFECT THE CHANGE.

POLITICAL CHANGE IF WE HAVE MORE WOMEN IN OFFICE THINGS LIKE EDUCATION THAT WOMEN CAN CARE FAR MORE ABOUT, WILL BE DRAMATICALLY IMPROVED AND ENHANCED.

IF YOU HAVE MORE WOMEN WRITING LEGISLATION THINGS WILL BE IMPROVED.

>> I AGREE WITH THAT BUT WHAT YOU BROUGHT UP IS KEY, BONNIE AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE WOMEN'S MARCH THE LARGEST MARCH HELD IT TAKES INSTRUMENTAL, PEOPLE.

MONTH -- STRUGGLE, PEOPLE.

MOMENTUM DOESN'T HAPPEN AND CHANGE DOESN'T HAPPEN THE STATUS QUO HAPPENS.

AND WOMEN HAVE NOT BEEN IN STRUGGLE FOR A LONGTIME NOW.

THANKS TO PRESIDENT TRUMP, WOMEN SEEM ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEIR OWN FREEDOM, EQUALITY IS IN THEIR OWN HANDS.

>> THIS WEEK OF BIG SCANDAL BROKE IN BRITISH PARLIAMENT WHERE SHE LIVES, AND THERE'S ALL KINDS OF CHANGES GOING ON AND BRITAIN SIMILAR TO WHAT IS GOING ON HERE, IT'S OUTING SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN THE WORKPLACE.

BUT ARE HER IDEAS PIE IN THE SKY?

>> I MEAN HER IDEA THAT YOU CREATE A NEW PARTY ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I THINK THE WOMEN DO NOT RUN BECAUSE THE SYSTEM IS AS WITH OUR VIEW ON RACE, IS SO POLARIZED.

AND YOU DO THINK THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A RISE IN THE MIDDLE IF THERE ARE SENSIBLE SOLUTIONS THAT ADDRESS THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS' CONCERNS, YOU COULD SEE MORE WOMEN RUNNING.

BUT WITH MODERATES LEAVING ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE AND DECIDING THEY ARE NOT GOING TO RUN BECAUSE IT'S TOO HARD TO RUN AGAINST THE RADICAL RIGHT, I DON'T SEE A LOT OF WOMEN LIKE EAGER TO GET INTO THAT TYPE OF ENVIRONMENT.

>> THE POLARIZATION IS DISGUSTING TO ME.

BECAUSE GO BACK TO JANUARY, I WANTED TO BE PART OF THE WOMEN'S MARCH THEY EXCLUDED WOMEN LIKE ME.

REPUBLICAN, RIGHT?

BUT FRIENDS WHO ARE PRO-LIFE.

>> ANYBODY WHO CAME DOWN COULD MARCH.

>> THEY DID NOT WANT PRO-LIFE WOMEN THERE.

>> THERE WAS A CONTINGENT.

>> THEY SHOWED UP ANYWAY.

BUT THE MESSAGE WAS WE DON'T WANT YOU PRO-LIFE WOMEN HERE SAME WITH THE CONVENTION THEY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO OUTREACH AND INCLUDE CENTER RIGHT WOMEN LIKE ME AND THAT WAS ALSO A MISSED OPPORTUNITY.

SO I WORRY.

BECAUSE WE WANT TO JOIN FORCES NOW.

WE ARE AT A POINT WHERE DESPITE THIS POLARIZATION WANT TO SOLVE THIS SORT OF HYPER PARTISANSHIP THAT IS PLAGUING THE COUNTRY AND NOT ALLOWING CONGRESS TO GET ANYTHING DONE.

AND THAT IS A DEEPER ISSUE.

I JUST REMAIN OPTIMISTIC BECAUSE OF THE STORIES.

I HAD A SUPER LIBERAL FRIEND TEXT ME ASKING ME IN I KNEW JEWEL AN YEAH GLOVER I'M SITTING IN A CONFERENCE AND I LOVE WHAT SHE IS SAYING AND I SAID THAT IS COOL BECAUSE I KNOW WHERE SHE IS AND I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE AND I WAS THINKING THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO CHANGE THINGS.

I HAVE A LIBERAL FRIEND WHO WANTS TO HEAR FROM SOMEBODY ON MY SIDE OF THE AISLE.

AND WE ARE DEEP FRIENDS BUT THIS IS WHAT WILL CHANGE THE FUTURE.

WHEN WOMEN COME TOGETHER AND PUT ASIDE THE DIFFERENCES AND COME TOGETHER.

>> PUTTING ASIDE DIFFERENCES MEANS IGNORING THE ABORTION ISSUE BUT THAT IS IMPORTANT -- >> SO ON THE ABORTION ISSUE, I AM A LONGTIME PRO-LIFER BUT I BELIEVE WE CAN WORK TOGETHER ON THE CONTRACEPTION ISSUE.

THERE IS NO REASON ANY WOMEN SHOULD NOT HAVE THE ACCESS.

>> PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE CONTRARY VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.