- Welcome to Inland Edition where we have conversations with people who make decisions that affect our everyday lives.

My name is Joe Richardson.

I'm an attorney, an Inland Empire resident, and your host.

And today, we're going to chat [background music] with the sheriff of San Bernardino County.

With grandparents who lived through the Great Depression, Inland Empire native Shannon Dicus grew up in Joshua Tree and graduated from Cal State-San Bernardino after serving in the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division.

After having held positions in law enforcement at almost every rank, he was elected sheriff of San Bernardino County in 2022.

Now, as sheriff with his 40 years of law enforcement experience in tow, he currently works hard at addressing the homelessness issue in the largest county geographically in the United States.

He's sensible, pragmatic, and determined, and it's time to meet him now.

[gentle upbeat music] ♪ ♪ ♪ - [Joe] So, I'm happy to welcome San Bernardino County Sheriff Shannon Dicus.

Sheriff, how are you?

- I'm doing great, Joe.

Glad to be here.

- I'm thrilled to have you here.

So, let's start here.

Build the house a little bit, in terms of background.

You got law enforcement!

Honestly, this is a multi-generational thing.

Right?

- Yes.

I "grew up in the profession," if you will.

- [Joe] Right!

(laughs) And so, tell us about that a little bit.

- So, we came to San Bernardino County and my father was in agriculture and he came out to Cucamonga long before it was Rancho Cucamonga.

And, that company he worked for basically went out of business.

And, at the time, my uncle was a lieutenant in the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Department.

And, my father having two kids and a mortgage turned to my uncle and said, "What do I do?"

And, he says, "Hey, Sheriff Bland", at that time was hiring.

And, two weeks later, my father was in the sheriff's department.

- Wow.

So, I guess you always knew you wanted to be in law enforcement, as well.

Is that right?

- Well, I actually grew up telling my father I'd never be a deputy sheriff.

- Right.

- I told him I was gonna be a fed.

I was gonna be an FBI agent.

- Gotcha, gotcha.

And so, what changed your mind?

- Well, I went into the service and I served three years in the U.S. Army.

And, when I got out, I was going to college at Cal State-San Bernardino and I was approached by the chief of police during a work-study program at the Department of Veterans Affairs.

And, I had an opportunity to get a job in the federal government and thinking I'd go into the FBI later on.

It was a great "stepping stone," if you will.

And, when I got into the federal system, I realized that Titanic turned a little bit slow for me.

- Gotcha.

- I did grow with my father and I became a deputy.

- Wow.

So, you are sheriff of San Bernardino County, which is the largest county and land area in the country.

Talk a little bit about the breadth of the things that the sheriff's department actually oversees and does.

- Well, it is a big job in terms of the amount of geography we cover.

It's 20,000 square miles, actually over 20,000 square miles.

We have 14 contract cities, meaning I'm contracted to be the chief of police for those cities, and then take care of all the unincorporated area across the county.

So, as you can imagine, our populace which is 2.2 million people, is closer to LA, kind of in the area that we're in right now: the Rancho Cucamonga, Ontario, Rialto, Fontana, Upland area.

That's where the "urban" populace is, if you will.

And then, as you extend out the I-15 and down the I-10, you certainly see the more rural areas, the desert areas that we cover, as well.

- I guess some of us have this view of, "okay, I see a sheriff in the car", you know, or whatever else.

But, you guys oversee the correctional facilities in the county, that are the county facilities.

I mean, talk about some of the other things that you actually oversee as a sheriff's department.

- Sure.

So, my title is actually "Sheriff/Coroner/ Public Administrator."

And, you mentioned the jails.

We're actually mandated to run our jails in which we have a number of jails across the county.

And, that's just care and control of the inmates that we're taking care of at the time, getting 'em to and from court while they go through their court cases and also the sentence population of inmates.

The coroner's bureau; you know, on average, we vary daily with about 20 people that have passed away and need coroner services.

And then, the public administrator; those folks that don't have any estate planning wills or things of that nature, making sure their property's secure, it gets to their next of kin, and processing those types of cases.

- So, how big is the department in terms of the number of people that work for you and how's that split up?

- So, Joe, I have 4,300 folks that make me look smarter than I am daily!

If you really break that down it's almost in the center, equal to what we call our professional staff, our civilian employees, and then our sworn employees, as well.

- You are technically police chief for a bunch of contracted cities and local areas, as well.

But, what are some of the other things, some of the other things that you do in terms of coordinating with places, cities that do have chiefs, right?

Other counties and things like that.

Talk a little bit about the coordination that naturally has to happen in law enforcement between you and other agencies.

- Sure.

Well, San Bernardino County is the mutual aid coordinator.

In other words, the sheriff that sits in that seat for six surrounding counties here.

And, that means if we ever had any major event go on, it could be a natural disaster, it could be civil unrest, that we coordinate the type of things that we need maybe from the state and certainly from each other locally.

And, here in San Bernardino County, I've got 10 municipal police chiefs and they're wonderful people.

We're like this.

And, that's one thing I'd certainly like to let all of the citizens know that are watching your program is that we communicate regularly.

And, if there's anything that happens, it doesn't matter if it's in a municipal police department in their area where they have a chief of police or I need something in the county, we all work well together.

And, we are going to call and immediately take care of whatever the situation is that arises in the county.

My version of customer service is really, it's "before the phone rings, we're trying to say yes."

(chuckles) - Talk to me about the challenges that you naturally face given the diverse terrain, different types of people, urban, rural.

I think your county is primarily, our county is primarily of color.

Talk about some of the challenges just are incumbent in dealing with so many people in so many different places.

- Joe, that's probably one of our greatest strengths and our greatest challenges all at the same time.

And, you're absolutely right.

So, for years, the sheriff's department, in order to get kind of the look and feel of our county and exactly, not just, you know, enforcing laws.

That's the general expectation of the sheriff, of course, and the police departments in our area.

But, also how the community expects you to do your policing, especially being an elected sheriff.

So, for years, the sheriff's departments have what we call information exchange.

And, it doesn't matter what walk of life you are.

We'll have folks from the ACLU, folks that may protest law enforcement, but we invite them into the sheriff's department.

My executive staff and myself are in those meetings and we take questions from the community.

And, this happens about quarterly and is regularly organized by my public affairs division.

But, one of the things we realized, particularly during the pandemic, that same information exchange group, let's just say we all got older together.

So, we were used to interacting.

We realized that we weren't really getting the sentiments of young people.

And, when I say "young people," I'm gonna say somewhere in the ages of, you know, 14 all the way up through 35-ish.

So, we started what we call Next Gen Information Exchange.

And, it's really a unique environment where a deputy sheriff sits down with about 10 people from the community, 10 of these younger folks, and they get to know each other, kind of talks about walk of life, and those types of things.

But, what the difference is is, you know, a lot of young people aren't gonna stand up and ask the sheriff a question, like in the previous model I explained.

But this, the deputy will actually write down the questions and the deputy asks the questions of me or the executive staff.

So, it kinda creates a comfort level.

We actually invite at-risk youth.

We work with the schools and bring those type of folks in.

So, you know, folks that may not have had good contacts with law enforcement can ask us kind of the straight scoop.

And then, there's one more level, and this is a level that reaches I think what you were talking about, and that's we do have diverse communities across the board, diverse in geography, diverse in who we are as individuals.

I have what we call the "local information exchange."

And, even though technically on paper, for instance, in the contract cities, I'm the chief of police, I have a commander that actually takes care of that job for me.

And, that commander has the autonomy to do the same type of group where they meet with community members that are influential.

We keep politics and politicians out of that and just hear what's going on in the community, what they're concerned about.

And, anytime, we can highlight a case that may have happened in that community so people get a true understanding of what's going on.

As you know, with social media, and a number of things that are out there, it's really easy for things to grow legs, but it's different when you're able to get the facts from the "horse's mouth," so to speak.

- Sure.

Law enforcement; maybe I'm seeing it, correctly or incorrectly, as an umbrella, and maybe policing is part of that.

How has it changed over the years?

You've been around it for a long time.

How has it changed?

- It's changed a lot in a number of ways.

I mean, you see things play out in the streets that are, you know, social trends that we're all dealing with.

You know, fentanyl's a big topic that we talk about right now.

Homelessness, mental health issues, and a number of those things.

And, when you wanna see, you know, how law enforcement branches out and touches things, about a decade ago we started the sheriff's HOPE team, and it's Homeless Outreach and Proactive Enforcement Program.

Their sole mission is to go out and try to house folks.

And, when you interact with those folks or you go on a ride along with them and you see what folks in our communities are experiencing, you also understand the dynamic that's around that, and certainly ways to help.

And, since this county started the Point-In-Time Count, you know, we've slowly but surely seen that number of people out in our streets ink up to about 80% from when we started the Point-In-Time Count.

So, it's certainly something that, you know, citizens are concerned about and certainly the homeless that are experiencing their situation are concerned about.

And, law enforcement is adapting to those things.

- Tell me about how technology helps you in carrying out your job.

I can imagine that you've really seen some things change over the years and been able to have some capabilities perhaps, if not, then subsequently, then perhaps in the speed of things getting done, the efficiencies.

Tell me about how technology helps you in your job.

- There are a number of things, and I'm gonna try to touch on 'em.

It's really more of a shotgun.

There's so many things that touch us on a daily basis, but even, you know, databases and a number of things.

Our artificial intelligence may be able to do a pointer system here in the future.

Who knows what we're gonna see?

But, things we see in the here-and-now, you hear about body-worn cameras.

We just started rolling out body-worn cameras.

I believe we're on our third station now.

And, when you're talking about the acceptance of technology, the young deputies coming on board, they're very accepting of technology.

It links with their phones that we issue.

They can move evidence.

So, if they're in a case and they catch a video or a still photograph, they're able to classify that and put it with the case.

And, it's really a streamlined process where before it's taking physical things, putting in an envelope, sealing them, doing a number of things so that they can be assured that they aren't tampered with when they go to court.

So, that's a streamlined process as it relates to digital evidence.

Automated license plate readers.

If your car is stolen, having more eyes than just your own physical eyes to be able to see those things, a number of things to help us solve crime.

Technology in many ways, for folks that didn't have it before, it may be a hard adjustment, but the kids we're bringing on now.

I think they're expecting to see more and more of those things.

Most of them grew up on cell phones, certainly iPads.

And, kind of goes to your question earlier.

I see the deputies coming in; they're far more comfortable with culture and they know more about their peers really not just across the United States but across the world.

And so, some of the things, when you talk about equity issues and things that we see in the news, I don't see it play out with our young people right now.

They're all very accepting of each other.

And they're doing a job that's in a difficult time, but they do great work and I think technology certainly helps with that.

- Let's talk about resources.

There is this notion that some of us have that often, the Inland Empire, is under-resourced relative to the number of people, relative to the problems, geography, et cetera.

Do you find that to be the case as it pertains to sheriff's department resources, the things that flow to the sheriff's department?

And, are there ways in which, or areas in which you wish you were better resourced?

- When you talk about the geography, I mean, some of them- the patrol beats that my deputies face in the Barstow, Morongo, Victor Valley area- the patrol beats are anywhere from 5,000 square miles to 1,500 square miles.

And, you imagine that's a lot of ground to cover at any given time.

Now again, those are our most rural areas where there's not as much of a dense population.

But, as we get more and more people in the Empire- I mentioned the pandemic- I think the number we received is about 66,000 people that moved out of the LA Basin and into the Inland Empire.

When you go out to some of our desert communities, you see where they've bought two-and-a-half acres, 5 acres, 10 acres, 20 acres, and they're in their RV just waiting for, you know, a contractor.

So, it's really keeping track of those populations.

There are some areas and there are mandates and things that we are required to do that I don't think are funded to the degree they should be.

And, I'll just give you an example: our courts.

We know with the population that have grown, that we need more judges and more courts to clear the caseload, and rightfully so.

So, I have to supply the bailiffs and the deputy sheriffs that move the inmates to and from and the bailiffs in each courtroom.

Well, what the state does is kind of a blanket contract for those positions.

And, they don't take into account that we have to negotiate as a county with unions.

So, that contract doesn't ebb and flow like it does with the number of things going on.

And, we still don't have enough judges, but I also don't have enough bailiffs.

And, it's always trying to strike that balance between people, money, and certainly the needs of the community.

- [Joe] Let's talk about some of the ways, you touched on it briefly, but talk a bit more about the ways that people come in contact with the sheriff's department before actually needing them at a difficult time.

You were an explorer, you know.

You hear about the Explorer programs.

What are some of the programs that has the sheriff's department, representatives of the sheriff's department, you know, with community touchpoints, touching the community?

- [Shannon] Joe, I'm so glad you asked me that because the reality is, as the sheriff, I need the community more than they need me in many circumstances.

And, that's-- you know, we talked about, ever since we just celebrated 9/11 in terms of trying to remember what happened on that day.

And, there have been remembrance ceremonies across this county.

So, when you think about that, "see something, say something" programs; we have what we call "Citizens On Patrol."

There're really more eyes than just one deputy sheriff in a patrol car.

So, if you think about that, they volunteer, they understand what's law enforcement does, they get some similar training.

And then, they're our extra set of eyes and ears.

And, it may be something as simple as you go on vacation and you'd like somebody to make sure your house is protected during that period of time.

So, they go check doors and they do vacation checks and make sure that they, you know, drive down your street, and do those types of things just as a proactive measure.

And, that's one area.

You mentioned Explorers.

Touching our youth.

It is very hard to recruit a law enforcement officer in this environment.

You've heard the military have similar, you know, struggles.

Being able to have the Explorers come work with us, engaging with their schools and engaging with their parents is a great recruitment tool for us.

Also, reserve deputy sheriffs that do the same thing, a paid-for deputy sheriff does.

We have a number of those folks that come out and donate their time.

And then, there's things that we do also proactively.

We have a juvenile intervention program where we hear from the schools.

We also hear from their parents.

And, if there's an at-risk child, we do things-- it's kind of like "scared straight" but completely different.

It's not trying to scare them, but they will talk to somebody that's incarcerated under supervisor's circumstances where they can ask 'em direct questions just like you and I are talking right now.

"What was right in your life?

What went wrong?"

And, really kind of steer them in a direction that's positive and not negative.

So, there are a lot of opportunities in the sheriff's department.

Businesses.

I have the Sheriff's Special Services Bureau.

A lot of our businesses in this county belong to that where they get a briefing from me about what's affecting us both positively and negatively in terms of law enforcement.

And, they can ask me questions.

Retail theft is a big thing right now.

"Hey, how do we protect ourselves?

How do we engage with your department?"

So, there's a number of ways to really interact with us and feel comfortable about what your sheriff's department's doing.

- Give us your sense, I mean, you know, whether you plan to do that or not, with you being the sheriff of such a large agency and an agency that represents an area geographically and otherwise, that is very much about where we're going in the future of America, even as a country.

Give us a sense for-- it makes you a thought leader, whether you wanna be or not!

That's what I was trying to say!

Give me a sense for what you see in terms of where law enforcement is going.

Where's policing going?

If you look around the corner in terms of what we are gonna be seeing in 10 to 15 years, what is it that you see, and how does agencies in general and even your agency in particular kind of meet that challenge?

- One of the biggest issues I think we see across the board and why a lot of things fall on the shoulders of law enforcement is this issue of capacity.

I think what you're gonna see in the future as particularly as the state of California expands capacity for mental health, homelessness, you name it, and right now we're all struggling with that.

Some of these things were traditional state responsibilities that have been pushed down.

Some of them are just so broad that it's all-hands-on-deck.

- Mm hm.

- But as capacity builds, I think eventually you're gonna see law enforcement highly specialized, almost like an athlete.

There's gonna be certain things that you have to do to be able to qualify for the job, but it may be a lot more focused than it is right now.

So, maybe we do get to a point where there's a mental health-related call and certainly safety's first and foremost.

So, you may get one of those folks to go with you that are highly trained to do those things.

But, at some point, if there's a transition, they'll be the capacity to be able to transition that, not necessarily a law enforcement call, but a public health or mental health type of call.

So, I think you're gonna see that trend to continue.

It's starting now to some degree and just kind of really a little bit better.

And, I don't know whether technology's gonna help this, but figure out, you know, exactly where law enforcement needs to be for those calls.

And then, certainly, our community's changing as a whole.

If you look at my Sheriff's Academy right now, 48% of the folks that come into the Sheriff's Academy are Hispanic.

That's the largest growing demographic and population here in our county.

So, you're starting to see a lot of Hispanic businesses open up.

I'm seeing them enter.

I've never seen as many females getting into law enforcement as I do now.

On average, six to nine graduate every academy.

So, you're seeing a number of things change and things that are all good.

That's why I said I think some of the projections, and sometimes it comes from the media about how law enforcement is, I just don't see it.

The kids that are in there right now are very comfortable with each other and comfortable with the community.

Unfortunately, we just get tied up into politics and law enforcement's on the front lines of no matter what it is.

And so, we tend to get kind of lumped in to some of those things that are going on.

And then, being an elected sheriff, you know, my public here expects me to weigh in on public safety legislation.

They expect me to show up and they expect me to have a voice.

And, I try to do that.

I try to be involved with the public safety committee here in the state and make sure I testify for those legislators that are introducing public safety legislation that I believe is good for the community here in San Bernardino County.

- So, related to that, you are in a job where your agency gets the call when things change (snap!)

on a dime between life and death; switches.

You are part of every human condition that affects people in the area in a significant way.

How do you get through tough moments?

'Cause I'm sure that they come because I know you see different things every day.

But, not only you're sheriff, you're a person; you're a human being.

You're a person with a family, et cetera.

How do you get through your tough moments and stay optimistic?

- Joe, I'm a faithful person, and I do believe we're put on this earth to do right by our fellow man.

So, I always believe that there's hope out there.

And, when I watch the brilliant work and those tough decisions that my deputies make day in and day out, all of our professional staff that's supporting them day in and day out, that's my hope.

And, it sounds like a pretty complicated process based on if you were to sit in a dispatch center and hear all of those types of calls come in.

But, I can tell you with that hope, it's not so complicated.

You just have to remember who you are and remember who your public is and what they expect from ya.

And, it's an interesting dynamic 'cause sometimes you have to be very firm about things and other times you can be down on one knee and be very human all at the same time.

But, it's being able to adapt and move through those different roles that the public expects you to do.

- So, give us some homework!

Hopefully, I am certain that some people are looking at this.

Maybe some people that are looking at potentially a future career.

Maybe some people that, you know, may have had complaints about the sheriff's department or about law enforcement in general, but this gives them an opportunity to look through a different window.

Give us some homework in terms of how people can follow up and get information about the sheriff's department.

- One of the things we're trying to do is we are recently releasing a newsletter and I'm sure we'll see that here soon.

It's something the board members have been doing for years, but the sheriff hasn't been doing that.

In that newsletter, we're also on every social media platform that there is, if you wanna know what's going on.

And, some of it's proactive information.

You know, we've had severe storms and different things.

So, following us to be able to make sure that the public's prepared, particularly in the areas that these different disasters may hit.

But, more importantly, if you could get involved.

You and I talked about a number of things to be able to get involved with the sheriff's department and know what's going on.

And, even those folks that are adverse to law enforcement, I think if you understand and we really get into the petri dish of a high-risk low frequency incident and people put themselves in their shoes, the perspective becomes much different.

And, we have a number of ways to do that.

We have firearms training simulators and things to be able to put people right in the shoes of a deputy sheriff who's answering some of those calls.

And, I think when you have that realization, you become a bit more softened, if I can say "softened" to some degree, and understanding of what a law enforcement officer goes through.

And then, we've covered a lot of ground in terms of all the different things going on in our communities.

I think it's important to understand that every single one of those things, even though it doesn't directly fall under our wheelhouse in terms of training.

We mentioned mental health, you know, all of those things.

Even though we train for a number of incidents, safety's always gonna be number one with us.

And, if people take time to understand the complexities-?

It's really easy to second guess anything you see in a video later on, but it's different when seconds, multimilliseconds are unfolding in front of you and you're trying to make a good decision to protect people and protect yourself and go home in the evening.

- What is the sheriff's department's website?

- Okay.

So, we've got a number of 'em.

The easiest way is just type in San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department.

We've got a "www."

that's on there.

We're recovering from a ransomware attack (Joe whistles) so some of the stuff may be wonky, but I think you're gonna see us evolve in a much better technical platform than we've been in the past, moving away from some legacy systems.

And, as a result of that, certainly, social media; you'll be able to find us and to contact us.

All of our stations are represented as well on social media.

- San Bernardino County Sheriff Shannon Dicus, thank you so, so much for taking time with us.

- Joe, thank you for taking the time.

I know we covered a lot of ground.

Just please know that I have amazing people that work for the sheriff's department.

And, like I said earlier, we're uniters and not dividers and we're here to help, and we will do that.

And, we're up for the challenges.

Even though sometimes when you watch the news and you think things are a bit overwhelming, we got it.

We're built for this.

- So, we want to thank you all for watching us on Inland Edition.

Know that you and your friends, and everybody you know, can watch us on YouTube on demand.

So, in the meantime, let's keep walkin' down the road, building bridges one conversation at a time.

See ya!

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