- Just ahead on "Black Issues Forum" we spotlight PBS North Carolina's groundbreaking music series "Shaped By Sound."

Exploring the stories, the sounds and the souls behind the music that makes our state sing.

With artists like Iron and Wine, Nnenna Freelon and Reuben Vincent in the spotlight, you do not want to miss the conversation of culture shaping North Carolina's musical roots.

Coming up next, stay with us.

- [Announcer] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBC NC.

[upbeat music] - Welcome to "Black Issues Forum," I'm your host Kenia Thompson.

Well, North Carolina's musical scene has always been alive with energy, creativity and soul.

From Bluegrass roots to modern hip hop beats, the Tar Heel state is home to a rich, musical legacy and now PBS North Carolina is bringing that legacy to life, with a brand new series "Shaped by Sound."

Today, we get to hear clips from some of the artists shaping today's music and later we'll explore the history that laid the foundation for North Carolina's iconic sounds.

To kick things off, I want to welcome PBS North Carolina's Program Development Producer and Host of Shaped By Sound and one of the many talented folks here who worked on the upcoming series.

Today we have with us James Mieczkowski, welcome to the show.

- Thanks for having me.

- Of course, thanks, James.

This is so cool we get to do this.

- I know.

- Right.

- Yeah.

- So tell us about how "Shaped By Sound" came to be.

- Yeah, so I think really at its foundation because a lot of us here at PBS North Carolina are just a huge advocate for the arts and music lovers.

- Yes.

- And you said it right, we have this rich musical legacy here in North Carolina and we really wanted to tap into that.

- Yeah.

- And we wanted to just showcase that and really celebrate what we have here.

And that's where it all started, we wanted to figure out how do we do that?

In what way do we do that?

We've done many different forms of that through different shows that we've had before, but we wanted to do something new, we wanted to do something special.

So that's how it started.

- Tell me a little bit about your personal background with music.

- Yeah.

- Did you grow up loving music, what was your most favorite?

- Absolutely, yeah I grew up loving music.

I am a live music fan.

So I will go to as many live shows.

- Yeah.

- As I can.

- Same.

- I'm very lucky to be in the triangle because we have so many venues and all different kinds of genres that are really sprouting out here and just easy to access.

- Yeah.

- But, my background a little bit, I was a radio DJ for a little while in college.

- I didn't know that.

- I was a writer for a bit, as well.

So I feel like I've been a part of that scene in different facets.

- Yeah.

- I got to see it throughout time.

So it's been very cool.

- That's great.

Well, before we keep digging in deeper, folks wanna hear this music.

- Yeah.

- So we do have a clip.

- Oh, great.

- Some, well four of the artists that are gonna be featured in this upcoming season, so take a look.

[light music] ♪ Love doesn't recognize the lost and found ♪ ♪ Or the gifts that can be measured by the mound ♪ ♪ Or drifting clouds that come and go ♪ ♪ Feelings that we long to show ♪ ♪ Love is simply worn beneath the skin ♪ [upbeat music] ♪ Spectacles, you think we wearing dancing shoes ♪ ♪ The way they clocking every move ♪ ♪ Their eyes spell-binded by the groove ♪ ♪ It's obvious, hey ♪ ♪ They can't stop watching ♪ ♪ They can't stop watching ♪ ♪ Spectacles, you think we wearing dancing shoes ♪ ♪ The way they clocking every move ♪ ♪ Their eyes spell-binded by the groove ♪ ♪ It's obvious, hey ♪ ♪ They can't stop watching ♪ ♪ Can't look away ♪ ♪ This some things you never seen ♪ ♪ I got bigger dreams ♪ ♪ I'm as bad as a toddler with some silver teeth ♪ ♪ I've been stacking my dollars ♪ ♪ Trying to get the cream ♪ ♪ The chambers that I entered ♪ ♪ Some things that you ain't never seen ♪ ♪ Making shorties say woo like OBD ♪ ♪ Shame on a brother he thinking I ain't got cream ♪ ♪ Ain't had no silver spoons ♪ ♪ Now we on the TV screen ♪ ♪ Watching Martin till I doze off ♪ ♪ It was all a dream ♪ ♪ I be on my own ♪ [mellow soul music] ♪ And you want me to love you ♪ ♪ Ain't trying to fight it though ♪ ♪ To be invited ♪ ♪ Losing myself in you ♪ ♪ Losing track of the time ♪ ♪ Been away, it's been riding on me ♪ ♪ The days I've been out here balling ♪ ♪ I decide that I invite you in, girl ♪ ♪ And I just want you, baby, baby ♪ - I just wanted that to keep going.

- [James] Yeah, same.

- I fell in love with his voice [James laughing] going through this footage.

So tell our audience, who did we just watch and hear?

- Yeah, so we heard from Nnenna Freelon.

- Yes.

- We heard from Shirlette Ammons.

- [Host] Mm-hmm.

- We heard from Reuben Vincent.

- [Host] Yep.

- And from Sonny Miles.

- [Host] Yes, in that order, in case you were wondering.

- Yeah.

[laughs] - [Host] So let's talk about the selection process.

- Yeah.

- 'Cause there's a plethora of artists that you could have chosen from.

- Yeah.

- How did you choose?

And that had to have been hard.

- It was very hard.

- [laughs] Yeah.

- Yeah, but hard for really great reasons.

- [Host] Yeah.

- You know, we have such a diverse state here.

- [Host] Mm-hmm.

- And we have such a diverse just geographic place in North Carolina, and that's all reflected in the music that we picked.

- Yeah.

- Right.

And so it was really difficult.

We wanted to represent a little bit of North Carolina as much as we could.

- [Host] Mm-hmm.

- And so that really went into the process is to think about, "Okay, like, how have we covered this state?

Have we covered all the genres?"

- Right.

- "And how does that look within the season?"

- [Host] Mm-hmm.

And we had 13 episodes, so it's funny, it sounds like a lot, but then you're in a room trying to figure out who was gonna be on the show.

- Yeah, it's not enough.

[laughs] - It's not enough.

And so yeah, that was sort of the process that we had to go through was thinking about, you know, North Carolina and our music heritage here and how do we kind of showcase that in all those different ways.

- Yeah, and of course, since this is Black Issues Forum, we highlighted some of the black artists, but you did more than black artistry.

- Yeah.

- Right.

And you mentioned a plethora of genres.

- Mm-hmm.

- What were those genres?

- Yeah.

- And then what are some of the other artists that you featured?

- Yeah, so we had bluegrass.

- [Host] Yes.

- We had garage rock.

- [Host] Mm-hmm.

- We had punk.

We had just, like, sort of, like, punk in general.

- [Host] Yeah.

- We had some folk music.

Americana.

And those artists that are sort of represented within those genres are bands like Superchunk, Iron & Wine.

- Yeah.

- Fancy Gap, just to name a few.

- Yeah.

- And gosh, yeah.

It's so much fun to kind of think back on all of that and sort of where we went and how it took us all over the map.

- Indeed.

And I know those artists were definitely grateful, excuse me, to be featured.

When we think about North Carolina's musical landscape, we'll talk a little bit later with our next guest about history's impact, music, you know, historical music impact, but how have you seen the genres kind of merge across the state?

And how have you seen- - [James] Mm-hmm.

- Musical artists kind of come together and what does that look like?

- Yeah.

- That's, that's such a great question.

I think now, as sort of we are in this internet streaming age of music, people are listening to all sorts of things.

- [Host] Yeah.

- And it's really reflected in a lot of genre blending, I think, which is really cool.

So like, you can get jazz hip hop, or you can get folk Americana, you can get punk garage rock.

- Yeah.

- It's just sort of all these things that are starting to just merge into different new things.

- Yeah.

- Which is really fun.

And, again, I've said it a few times already, but we're so lucky to kind of have those artists here that are groundbreaking, and doing that work.

And, I think a lot of that too, is because of the communities that are built within the state for different pockets of music.

- Yeah.

- Like my Rupa Vincent, and the Charlotte hip hop scene.

It's like such a really cool thing that they're doing down there, and they're all working together to kind of figure out like, "What are you doing?

"How do I do something like that?"

"How do I do it a little bit different?"

I think about like the nineties, like garage rock scene in Chapel Hill, and how that kind of birthed bands like Superchunk, and all different other ones as well, so.

- Yeah.

- It's been really cool to kind of see everything sort of form that way, and- - That's beautiful- - And be able to access it.

- Yeah.

A couple minutes left in our conversation, but I know that in addition to the visuals that we see, there's also a podcast element to this.

- That's right.

- Tell us a little bit about that.

- Yeah.

- And then tell us when is this launching, and where can we watch?

- Yeah, absolutely.

So within the show, we didn't wanna just have the performances.

We wanted to hear from the artists as well.

We wanted to have them tell us their story.

And how has the music that's performing, a reflection of their story?

And that's really where the podcast element came in.

And it's a video podcast, so you'll be able to watch it on YouTube, and on the app, as well, the PBS app.

And that's where it came about.

I'm the host of that podcast, and it's really great.

We get to kind of jump in and have these like really great, thoughtful conversations about who they are, and what inspired them, and- - Yeah.

- Where they, where they see themselves going next.

- Yeah.

- The story is everything.

- Yeah.

It really, it just makes the music more meaningful too.

- Absolutely.

And it's things where, you know, like, I feel so grateful because I was just learning so much from them.

- [Host] Yeah.

- Not just about like the songs, but just about like history, and what they're inspired by.

And that inspired me, you know?

And one of the things that we got to talk about too is really a play on the name, "Shaped by sound."

- Mm.

- And like how you as an artist are shaped by sound.

- I love that.

- And that theme sort of was different for everyone.

- Yeah.

- And it made me feel so, like, glad to be a part of this thing because, I mean, music means so many different things to everyone.

- [Host] Yeah.

- And it can be, you know, sound shaping because I remember the sounds of my Nana's clock when I was younger, and I'm with her all the time.

I'm making this music, or whatever.

It's all over the map.

So that's pretty cool.

- Cool.

Tell us where to watch.

When is this gonna premiere?

- Yeah.

So February 6th is the premiere date.

It's Thursday at 9:30.

- Wonderful.

- And you can watch on broadcast, and you can also watch on the PPS app or on YouTube.

- Beautiful.

James Maikowski.

- Yeah.

- Thank you so much.

Thank you for all your work you did on the series.

- Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

- Of course.

Thanks.

Well, before we invite our next guest to the set, let's take a look at how legends like Louis Armstrong and Jimi Hendrix shaped the musical landscape, and how North Carolina is home to remarkable talent.

[bright music] The Harlem Renaissance of the 1920s and 30s was a golden era for black music and artistry.

Legends like Louis Armstrong, with his unmistakable trumpet sound, and Duke Ellington, whose big band arrangements redefined jazz.

They turned Harlem into a musical epicenter.

The revolution continued into the mid 20th century with Chuck Berry, the father of rock and roll, and then came a young artist with North Carolina roots, who would change the game forever, Jimi Hendrix.

North Carolina itself has been a rich source of musical talent, producing legends like John Coltrane, whose saxophone mastery remains unmatched.

And Nina Simone, whose powerful voice and activism made her a global icon.

Their music tells stories of struggle, joy, and triumph, reminders that the power of sound is timeless.

[upbeat music] The history of music in North Carolina is deeply intertwined with the experiences and contributions of African Americans whose creativity and resilience have shaped the very foundation of so many genres we love today.

To dive deeper into this rich history and its lasting impact, I'm honored to welcome our next guest.

He's an acclaimed author and Professor of African American Studies at Duke University.

Please join me in welcoming Dr. Mark Anthony Neal.

Welcome to show.

- How you doing, Kenia?

- I'm well, I'm well.

Thank you so much for being here.

We just had a great conversation with James about "Shaped by Sound".

I'd love to maybe get your initial thoughts on this series coming up and how important, its important role in music in the series.

- It's exciting.

- Yeah.

- 'Cause on the one hand we always think about the historical aspects of music, but music is a living genre, always changing.

And to see so many different generational folks.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- Who are continuing to make music like a Nnenna Freelon, someone on the younger tip like a Ruben Vincent.

- [Kenia] Yes.

- Shirlette Ammons.

- Yes.

- It's a wonderful opportunity, I think for folks to understand the cultural heritage that's here in North Carolina in terms of our musical heritage.

- Yeah, so let's talk about that heritage.

We brought you on to talk history.

So what role has African Americans played in the landscape of music in this state in particular?

- The thing that's probably pretty incredible to folks is that many artists who are iconic in terms of Black music, in American music have roots in North Carolina.

You can just start with the idea that both, that John Coltrane, Nina Simone, and Thelonious Monk, who shaped jazz music in so many tremendous ways, came from North Carolina.

Here in Durham, where someone like Shirley Caesar was born.

- Yes.

- You take the great vocal group The Drifters, their two most well-known lead singers, Clyde McPhatter and Ben E. King, are from North Carolina.

The father of the funk, George Clinton.

- Yeah.

- From North Carolina.

- That's amazing.

- There's something about, I think where North Carolina is in that, in between the South and New York and folks were just traveling up and down the Eastern seaboard.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- That, I think, created this wonderful culture of music that became so nationally known.

- Yeah, that was gonna be my question.

What is it about North Carolina?

But then also what is it about the history or the tie to slavery and the things that our people have gone through that kind of makes the sound?

- Yeah, and I think about the connection between North Carolina music and, for instance, the Civil Rights movement.

- [Kenia] Correct.

- Nina Simone's the most obvious example of that.

One of her most well-known songs, 'I Wish I Knew What It Would Be to Be Free', the music to that song was actually written by another North Carolinian.

- [Kenia] Right.

- Dr. Billy Taylor.

When you think about Max Roach, who's another one of these great jazz giants, forties and the fifties, he writes the 'Freedom Now Suite' in response and in tribute to what happens on February 1st, 1960 with the Greensboro sit-ins.

These folks understood that as the times were changing, the music had to reflect the changes that were occurring in the culture.

And the thing about Black music historically, if you want to know what's happening in Black America at any historical period, listen to the music.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- The music will tell the story of what was happening.

- And that is the thing I think most people don't realize that they're attracted to is the story.

- Absolutely.

- A story is what moves you.

- Absolutely.

- And so when we think of the melodies that accompany that and how music has been influenced to preserve history, you know, people don't realize how they experience that in different ways.

- Yeah, it is storytelling.

There's no question and, you know, we think about it, definitely, when we think about hip hop now.

- Yeah.

- Again, talking about other North Carolina folks, you know, Petey Pablo, who had the great anthem of North Carolina.

- Yes.

- But of course, J Cole, right?

- Yeah.

- And, of course, you know, my teaching partner at Duke, 9th Wonder.

- Yeah.

- You know, we know hip hop does storytelling, but hip hop is part of a larger tradition of blues artists, of soul artists, of gospel artists who use music to tell the stories of their lives, - Mm-hmm.

- their aspirations, their desires, and the things that they were afraid of, their fears, right?

- Yeah.

- Their concerns.

- Yeah.

How have we seen Black music cross over into the genres?

Other genres?

- You know, you start with the fact that the 12-bar blues.

Right, which is something that comes outta the African American experience, is the foundations for American pop music.

- Oh.

- Right, even today.

Right, you know, you break down structurally some of these songs and you're still hearing the 12-bar blues.

But I think there was always something about the aspiration of Black music that attracted many people to the possibility of why it was important to listen to it and follow these artists.

You think about the generation of immigrants who come to the US who start record companies in the 1940s.

- Mm-hmm.

- The Ertegun Brothers at Atlantic Records.

Right, which is where Ray Charles and Aretha Franklin would later record.

Leonard and Marshall Chess, right, who were Polish, - Yeah.

- who go to Chicago and record electric blues.

You know, they understood there was something about that story in Black music that was appealing to them.

The great Berry Gordy, you know, we just celebrated the 66th anniversary of the founding of Motown Records.

He was very clear, right.

"Motown is the sound of young America, not Black America."

- Yeah.

- "Young America."

"I'm recording young Black people who sing songs that young White people will find" - Mm.

- "appealing.

", right?

And you talk to any young White person who came of age in the Sixties and the Seventies.

You ask them what their favorite music genre is.

They're almost always gonna say Motown.

- Yeah.

Wow.

- Yeah.

Being of Haitian descent, myself, and growing up on music, I mean, music was the heartbeat of the household.

But today I some... Now I'm starting to hear this surge of tribal, cultural music that is appearing into our music today.

Can you touch on that?

- You know, it's interesting.

The internet has changed everything.

Streaming music has changed everything.

You know, Black Americans, for instance, who didn't quite know what to do with the sounds of Bob Marley and reggae music, - Yeah.

- you know, in the 1970s, - Yeah.

- are embracing music that they're hearing from artists from South Africa - Right.

- and Nigeria and other places.

Or the great Fela Kuti, - Yeah.

- you know, who, in the 1970s, introduces Afro Pop, you know, to us.

Afrobeat to us.

Yeah, I think things have changed because the technology has changed.

Right, so it's made - Yeah.

- the world smaller.

Right, and it's given us more music and actually more time.

Right, we need more time to process all the sounds that we are hearing 'cause there's just so much new and great stuff that's out there.

And I think that's part of the beauty of the series.

Right, the series's gonna highlight, - Right.

- you know, that diversity of music just here in our state.

- Just here in our state.

When we think of misinformation and misunderstanding of culture, what do you think are some of the biggest, I guess, assumptions that people make about our music?

- That it's simply music to party to.

Right, and we party to it.

Right, you know.

- Of course.

- Right, we turn up.

- Right.

- But the music has always been so much more important than just going out to party.

- Yeah.

- Right, it has been the way that we've been able to soothe our souls, if you will.

- Mm-hmm.

- When you think about the gospel tradition.

Right to tell our stories, to tell our stories with some sort of depth in humanity, you know, that might not be able to be expressed in the other arts.

You know, you think about the great black novelists, you know, not everyone is literate.

Not everyone could read.

You know, my father could not read.

But he could listen to Bobby "Blue" Bland.

And he could listen to B.B.

King and I could feel what he was going through in the world because of how he could hear it in the music.

- Yeah.

Some say that we are, well, the music we experienced today isn't as good as we experienced it before.

I hear the chuckle.

What are your thoughts on that?

- I'm 59 years old.

I like what I like, but the thing is, young folks are listening to music that speaks to them now.

I might not like all of it.

Some of it I might just can't stand.

But it's not my role to decide for them the music that helps them move through the world.

- That's fair.

- Right.

And you know, I grew up listening to early rap music, Run DMC, LL Cool J and Rakim and all those kind of folks.

And my parents were like, what's this trash?

- It's true.

- But these were artists who were speaking to me in that particular moment.

And I'd like to have the grace to say to young folks, right.

You know, support the artists that you want to support.

Listen to the music that you wanna listen to, if it is providing for you in the way that you need it to.

- They say that everything repeats itself.

History repeats itself.

Do you see a resurgence or a comeback of music that you loved that your parents may have loved intertwining itself into future music?

- Well, definitely.

I hear that in sampling.

You know, so many young hip hop artists go back and sample from the crates, right?

You know, there's this whole kind of also interest now in '90s hip hop, you know, the "boom bap era" if you will.

So, no, I think those sounds are always cyclical.

And it creates an opportunity for us to have many rich conversations about what came before, what's happening now, and to imagine what's going to happen in the future.

- How do we work, you know, shape by sound is this perfect example of it, but how do we work to preserve the historical importance of music in the state and beyond?

- We have to, I think, cultivate spaces for folks to listen to music.

You know, music now has become such a personal experience.

You got your headphones on, you know, I got my Bose.

Folks sitting at their laptop, you know, streaming their own music.

You know, I grew up in an era where it wasn't unusual new album comes out, 14 year boys come over, got a cassette tape sitting outside and you'd listen to say a new Big Daddy Kane album together.

And have conversations about it.

I'd like to get back to the point where we're coming together as a community, right?

To talk about the music that we're hearing.

Not just listening to podcasts and reading posts on social media.

- And we're seeing, well, locally, we're here in Durham and we're seeing things like that with like Crystal Taylor and her August in the park.

- Absolutely.

- Beats and bars.

I love seeing the collective.

- The great work that's being done at Missy Lane's.

- Yes, you're right.

You're right.

I've yet to go there, by the way.

So I need to visit.

And so I guess my last question is, you know, how do we come together and make sure that this continues forward?

- I think, you know, part of the challenge of the streaming era is that music comes to young folks free.

So I grew up at a time where you might have to, you got $20 in your pocket, you can only buy two albums.

You gotta make some hard choices.

And I think people forget for working artists.

- Folks who don't have big record contracts, right.

Who aren't streaming a hundred thousand streams.

We have to pay to go see them and being willing to support them and go out and listen to that music, right.

And I think that's how the music sustains itself, right.

Because the artists get so much energy from the audience, and the audience has to understand that part of our job here is not only just to hear the music and love the music, but help to support the artist to continue to make the music.

- Yeah.

No, that's a great point.

And with all the opportunities to self-publish and to self-promote and to produce your own content, the opportunities for artists are abundant.

- Absolutely.

- They're abundant.

- Absolutely.

- Well, Dr. Mark Anthony Neal, thank you so much for this conversation.

We look forward to seeing how Shape by Sound comes together.

- Yes.

- And maybe there's opportunity to have you back on to talk a little bit more about music.

- I would love that Kenia, thank you.

- Thank you so much.

And we thank you for watching.

If you want more content like this, we invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the hashtag Black Issues Forum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum and on the PBS video app.

I'm Kenia Thompson.

I'll see you next time.

[upbeat music] - [Narrator] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.