- (female announcer)   Production funding   for Behind the Headlines   is made possible in part by   the WKNO Production Fund,   the WKNO Endowment Fund,   and by viewers like   you, thank you.

- County taxes, spending, budgets, and more tonight, on Behind the Headlines.

[intense orchestral music] I'm Eric Barnes with The Daily Memphian.

Thanks for joining us.

I am joined tonight by two members of the County Commission.

Van Turner, thanks for being here.

- Thank you.

- Along with Mark Billingsley, thank you for being here.

- Thank you.

- Also here is Bill Dries, reporter with The Daily Memphian.

We'll talk a bunch about budgets.

We'll talk about some of the things in the budgets, everything, touch on some of the schools things some of the, you know, you all fund a lot of the jail and the Sheriffs and we'll, the pipeline, I think we'll get to today.

And maybe some other things.

Let's start with the budget.

I'll go to you.

Is the budget done or not?

'Cause there's a question that... - Right.

- You all are very close to, and Bill can probably, I should turn this to him.

- Yeah.

- That you all approved a budget.

You approved a tax rate, given that it's a reappraisal year, it was quite a significant decrease in taxes, but there's some talk that maybe y'all will reopen the budget.

I am confused.

- Yeah.

Well, I mean the budget right now was, it was passed.

The tax rate was passed before July 1.

And so there is a question of whether or not the tax rate may come back up at, at a later meeting in July.

But I think there was a big push to get a tax rate passed before the July 1 date, and it sort of changed.

There was a $3.46 rate pass, but it had to go to a fourth reading and it went back down to $3.45.

So you're talking about a penny, which is, which is worth about $2.2 million.

And those funds were to be dedicated to mental health for youth and young adults.

So the commissioners who actually sponsored that penny increase, were not at the meeting.

And so out of respect for them, we might bring that back up at our next meeting.

- Are you in favor of that?

- Oh yes, I'm in favor of the penny.

- You as well?

Where do you stand on that?

- Eric, I'm a hundred percent for mental health.

I don't think there's a commissioner out of our 13-member body that does not support mental health.

There's a whole lot of things that go on to try to get to the deadline.

And we had assurances from Mayor Harris and really from almost every member of the body that we are behind mental health.

But at the same time, I think the super majority of us did not believe we should delay a budget.

Have a continuation budget.

Mayor Harris was pretty articulate about that.

There were other individuals that reached out to us.

Mr. Mumpower from the State of Tennessee said the same thing.

- He's the comptroller.

- State Comptroller.

And so I really don't support reopening the budget.

I am committed to mental health.

I think we can make that happen with, or without that penny within, within our budget.

And I hope that's what we do.

- Bill?

- Commissioner Turner, there was some discussion about what exactly the state law means.

What, what does it mean have the budget set at, at a certain date because state law is somewhat ambiguous about that?

- That is correct.

I think the Attorney General opinion that I read said it has to be passed and, or amended by an October date.

And so, although there's the July 1 date, because that's when our fiscal year begins, there was an opinion which indicated that in one county they were able to amend their tax rate, but they had to have that amendment in by October.

So if we were to address an amendment.

It would be done well before that October deadline, probably at the beginning of August.

And that's good because the Trustee has to get her tax bill out and we have to make sure that we have a firm rate I think heading into when the property tax bills go out.

- Commissioner Billingsley, the City of Germantown a year ago in all of the uncertainty of the pandemic passed what is called a continuation budget.

- Sure.

- In other words, you simply have the current fiscal year and its expenditures go over into the new fiscal year.

And they got the job done by August.

So is there any real harm here if the Commission opens this back up at the July 26 meeting?

- Well Bill it's a great question.

And I'm actually a former Alderman and a former Vice Mayor of Germantown.

I think the size of the City of Germantown budget is much, much smaller than the county budget.

And we have very, very serious funding needs in the county that start on July 1, every year.

From economic development to healthcare, to public safety, to education.

And every professional I've talked to said it would not be a good idea to do a continuation budget.

The reason the City of Germantown also did that was they were in the midst of the pandemic and we are coming out of the pandemic.

We're seeing a really good, much improved numbers in Shelby County.

I understand why they did that.

And I think at the time for them, that was a good idea.

I just, I think it's a little bit ridiculous to somewhat threaten a penny increase that is only going to produce 2.2, $2.3 million out of our budget.

And I feel confident that the 13 commissioners can, can work through that.

I'm much more of a person who wants to find a means to an end and try to work through it.

I think having a tax increase, hanging over our head for several more months, it doesn't really do anything for us.

And again, you're talking about one penny, a one cent increase and there's not a whole lot you can do with that.

- Commissioner Turner, is broaching the topic of a tax hike here.

A one cent increase is this more than just funding mental health services?

Is this a way of opening a door to a broader discussion about priorities in county government?

- Well, I think to some extent, you know, every morning, Bill, we wake up and there's a dead body on our screen.

There's a homicide and most of the homicides are taking place among youth, and to be more specific, black youth.

And so we can't police our way out of the crime uptick in this community.

I know there's federal funding coming in for more officers, but that's on the backside of the issue.

Why would a child, and they're still children, pick up a gun and feel the need to kill someone else?

In most instances, another young person.

So we have to address mental health.

My goal here is to address mental health from the standpoint of we have to use this as a measure to address public safety.

I mean, we can put all the officers out.

We can have more police officers on the beat, but unless we address why our young people are picking up guns and are killing each other, it's still going to be the same scenario.

My ultimate goal is to use this mental health, this penny, to address violence in our community.

It's a mental health issue.

On this day, July 1, we can have guns without permits now.

Which will only exacerbate the issues that we're facing.

So that's why I'm really pushing this penny.

- Let me...

I see you nodding there, Commissioner Billingsley that you're agreeing with the principles and the goals and what does county government do now?

In terms of youth mental health.

Let's say with that issue.

Especially as it relates to violence, but across the board, and what, what can be done within the existing budget that hasn't been done in the past?

- Well.

To fully address all the things that Commissioner Turner has really eloquently stated.

And I absolutely agree with him on the youth, in our community.

We've got to do a better job and every municipality in Shelby County and surrounding counties to give as many support services to youth.

You know, this is probably the first summer where youth can fully get a job this summer because there's so many openings in this community.

I've actually interviewed gang members in Shelby County that are exactly what Commissioner Turner has stated.

It's young people with very little hope, with very little value for life.

They don't believe that they're going to live beyond fourteen, fifteen, sixteen years old.

We've got to allow for them to have jobs.

We have to do a better job within our school system to get them support services in their schools.

I support nurse as many nurses as we can put in schools, social workers.

I think it's, it is a very big wheel that we have to do, but it's, it's, it's got to be comprehensive.

And I think it's gonna take a lot more than a penny.

And it's, it's a, steadfast passion to address our youth.

We're losing youth every day, like Commissioner Turner says, and I've seen it in my district and I've seen it in the other 12 districts.

- There was a conversation, particularly on the city budget with a group of people saying, look, this is a very, it was, I want to say windfall year, 'cause that's a little bit wrong.

- Sure - But it was a year in which the city of Memphis taxes finally went under what, $3?

That you all were able because of the reappraisal and the increase in property values to lower the tax rate quite a bit under $4.

It's been kind of a holy grail for a lot of people, especially in economic development.

We gotta get our taxes in line.

I mean, it is a huge problem.

You both are agreeing on that.

Why not talk not about a penny, because I've heard people say we should have been talking about 20 cents, thirty cents, still reduce taxes.

Still reduce them substantially.

Keep it under $4 for instance.

Keep it under $3 on the city side.

And I know y'all, you know, City Council.

Why not, given what you just articulated, spend a whole lot more money and still lower taxes on the problem that everybody agrees with?

It's a national problem.

There's a huge uptick in crime nationally, you know, through COVID.

Why not spend more?

- Well, Eric, we represent, I'll just speak for me.

We represent our constituents.

And so when I do a vote, I try to best represent the constituents in my district, as well as really the broader county.

And I think you have to have a bigger community conversation around that because the moment we talk about raising even a penny, it's a, at times it can be World War III.

We had more lobbying this year for things like MATA than we did for mental health.

While Commissioner Turner and I are both committed to mental health, I think there's other things that arise.

We've had people argue for everything from the riverfront park, to MATA, to you name it, Commissioner.

All the things that we've been asked to do.

I think there has to be a commitment on behalf of our taxpayers to say mental health is a priority and Miami-Dade County that I've visited a couple of years ago, they raise property taxes by 50 cents, and they put in $100 million a year for juvenile interventions.

Their arrest rate for juveniles went down by 70%, but that is a significant investment.

And are the citizens of Shelby County interested in that?

- Are your constituents interested in that?

Would they like to see, you know, not, not a penny increase, but a 20, you know, I don't know what the number is, but, you know, tens of millions of dollars going into this mental health and wraparound services and social services to address crime, particularly juvenile crime?

- I think so, I'll give you an example.

My district has been on me about blue light cameras, and that is a deterrent.

But that doesn't really solve the problem.

The crime just moves to the street that doesn't have the camera, right?

And so I think that they would be in favor of a holistic approach and they would be willing to pay for it because they want safe communities.

And we're talking grandparents, you know, want their grandchildren to live and to be in a situation where they're thriving and not just surviving.

So I can tell you that in the Hickory Hill community, there's only so much a blue light camera can do.

Again, we have to address the issue holistically.

The state is making it easier to get a gun and to carry a gun, but we're not doing enough to address why would these young people need a gun in the first place?

- Let me say before I go to Bill, that as of the taping of this on Thursday, July 1, the state's law that allows permit-less carry went into effect.

Most law enforcement, you know, the Sheriff, the District Attorney, I'm not sure if the new Police Chief has come out, but I heard her say that she was very skeptical of it.

And people talk about permit-less carry, or excuse me, the expansion of the right to have a gun, not just in your home and into your car, which was expanded by the state in 2014, was a big, I mean, every law enforcement person we've had on the show has said, that is part of the "why" gun violence increased and gun violence increased on the highways because cars, guns were left in cars, they were stolen out of cars.

It wasn't law abiding-- It wasn't that.

It was just the availability of stolen guns.

So just to give some context to the permit-less thing.

Bill?

- And we should also note that, that in the Shelby County delegation to Nashville, you had Republican members of that delegation, as well as Democrats who voted against that bill.

You both talked about education and what Shelby County Schools has been doing.

And you heard from Porter-Leath, and you heard from Shelby County Schools about the school system's decision to end its contract with Porter-Leath for early childhood education.

Is there an action here, a play, if you will, for the County Commission on this issue, or is this, is this decided?

- I think our hands are pretty tied in, in terms of the power that the County Commission has with Shelby County Schools.

I am personally, just really really disappointed of the divorce, quite frankly, between Porter-Leath and Shelby County Schools.

We know really great kids that have benefited from that Porter-Leath program.

They've got the metrics to show the success.

Again, it's hard to try to, negotiate between two people who are trying to not cooperate with each other.

But for me, it was very disappointing.

I'm hopeful that they will find a way to work together.

I think my power as a commissioner is somewhat limited on that though.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

I would agree.

Once we released the money to the Shelby County Schools, or to any of the other six districts, it's their money to use.

We have no line item authority over the money once that money is released to the school system.

So that's really a decision for Shelby, the Shelby County Schools to make.

And hopefully there's a way to, you know, work it out.

As an attorney we oftentimes look to settle cases before we really have to go to trial.

And so maybe there's an opportunity for them to mediate this matter into settlement.

- Let me note, to interrupt you, Bill, that we'll have representatives from Porter-Leath on the show next week, and Joris Ray and others from the school system will be on the show in two weeks, talking about this issue of early childhood education, the contract with Porter-Leath and so on, as well as other issues.

But sorry, go ahead, Bill.

- Before this, agreement between the school system and Porter-Leath, Shelby County had the Headstart contract and Mayor-- - Not the school system, the county itself?

- Yeah.

- Just to be clear.

- Shelby County Government had the contract and Mayor Luttrell came to the conclusion that Shelby County government is not the right place to handle this.

Any thoughts about maybe county government taking this back?

- You know, I think that, you know, education should really be, I think, carried forth by those who were elected to educate our young people.

So I think we should leave it in the hands of the school districts and, really do what we can to fund that operation.

And so they're the experts, they're the ones that have been in education two, three decades.

And I think that they're the ones who have expertise to make sure that our young people are prepared educationally to matriculate successfully through K-12 education.

And so I'm still in favor of allowing all of the seven school districts to be over these Headstart programs.

But I think that we should fund that operation as best as we can and make sure that it's viable and it's really getting down to where it needs to get down.

To the three-year-olds and those who, and the four-year-olds and those who are preparing for formal K-12 education.

That's a public safety issue as well.

If we properly develop these young people early on, when they get into school, they're more likely to stay in school and to stay off the streets and in gangs.

And so that is something that is a holistic approach that Mark just talked about.

- But Commissioner Billingsley talk a little bit about, the Commission's influence versus what it can do, because you all approve a total amount.

- We do.

- For Shelby County Schools, and you don't have line item control, but you certainly have some powers of persuasion about where that money goes.

- We do.

I think most of the commissioners have a really good rapport with Porter-Leath.

I've got a great relationship with Porter-Leath.

I feel like I also have a really good relationship with Dr. Ray, Superintendent Shelby County Schools, and his staff.

I think our influence has to be, for people like me and Commissioner Turner, it's to maybe start a conversation between the two.

I think the biggest losers in this, Bill, are the students and the parents.

There was a lot of confusion about what children should do and parents should do during that time when there was a separation.

I don't think there's been enough conversation honestly about the students.

And it's been more of a political fight than anything else.

But I do think we have the ability to bring people together.

And I think that's how I best use my influence.

- We can talk much more about that, but as I said, we've got two shows that will touch on those issues.

So we'll stay with that.

But I want to come back to some crime.

And one of the major issues right now that people are focused on is getting a lot of attention, deservedly, is drag racing, and I mentioned a reference of shootings on the highway, but just drag racing on the streets, on the highways.

We were talking before the show about all the speed bumps that are going in all over the place.

You know, what more can the county do?

Again, you all don't control, this is the main police force here is obviously the City of Memphis, or the municipal police force, but you do oversee the Sheriff's Department.

The Sheriff's Department has taken on more responsibility in unincorporated Shelby County.

And that includes some de-annexed areas.

As commissioners, you know, what are you hearing from Floyd Bonner, the sheriff?

What do you want to hear more of in terms of tackling this very serious problem?

- Yeah, well, you know, I think it is probably on the way here to the studio, you know, three or four cars were speeding and, you know, it's just for no reason now.

And so I think that the Sheriff is in a position to assist the new chief, Chief Davis, in trying to slow drivers down.

Many of the drivers that I have seen have been young people in the car speeding and, and for no reason.

So I do think that we probably have to rely more on technology.

You know, I mean, that's where we're headed.

I mean, we can't have every officer on every street and at every, you know, mile of the highway to resolve this issue.

But there are probably ways that we could better use technology to track down the license tags, to give a warning, if not come to general sessions court.

Reckless driving is an issue we're going to suspend your license until you are more responsible with your driving.

Once you show us that you've gone through a class, a defensive driving class to be more responsible, we'll hand you your license back, but eventually you're going to kill yourself or kill somebody.

And it's needlessly, you know, driving like that.

- Is it time to go back to pre-COVID, which seems like, you know, 100 years ago, but there was, there was a bit of a big crackdown.

They had, I think, sheriffs, police, state patrol, they're pulling everyone over, perhaps even a host of a well-watched public television station got pulled over in that sweep, as I should have been, you know.

I wasn't driving recklessly just to be clear.

But it caught a lot of people.

They pulled a lot of people over it kind of sent a message.

Is it more... is it time for that, Commissioner Billingsley?

And is it time for the state to do more?

Because you never see state patrol.

- No.

- I mean, except in those limited efforts, there is no state patrol.

- It's absolutely time.

I'm a former volunteer policeman in the City of Germantown and everything I hear from our constituents is they've had enough of it.

It's really scary to get on the expressway.

It's quite frankly scary to get on Summer Avenue or Poplar Avenue.

No community is immune from this.

People are drag racing through neighborhoods.

You know, we've seen more and more citizens ask commissioners to help get speed bumps.

- Right.

- I'm at the point.

And I think most citizens are at the point where if we have to get to a point where we to Commissioner Turner's point, to suspend driver's licenses, if we, if you're going 80-100 miles an hour in this community, quite frankly, I think your car ought to be taken away for a period of time.

And you earn that vehicle back.

We are losing too many lives.

And, you know, we've got young people out on the road this summer who are new drivers.

And even for an experienced driver like myself, you don't have the reaction time when someone's coming at you at 100 miles an hour, or doing donuts in the middle of the street.

So I would, I would quite frankly support any effort at the state or local level.

- Bill, 5 minutes, or 4 minutes left here.

- All right.

You're both in your second term of office, second full term of office.

And 2022 is coming up.

So I guess my question to each of you is, are you interested in running for other offices after this term is up?

Van?

- Yes, I am.

And I'm exploring opportunities now.

Of course I term out September 1, 2022.

There are multiple county elections next year.

And then after that are the city elections.

And so it's all about timing and you know, properly placing yourself to have the best opportunity to be successful.

And so I think there's more work and preparation than, you know, you actually saying you're going to run for the position.

So I'm doing a lot of the prep work now and seeing what's best for me and talking to my family and friends and making sure I make the right decision.

But I'm definitely interested in seeking another office.

- All right.

Mark?

- I think that was an excellent answer.

[laughs] Really, really good.

- Would you like to use it?

- Yeah.

Can I just say ditto?

- I will, at the end of my term will have served on the County Commission nine years.

And like Commissioner Turner, I'll be term limited out.

I have really enjoyed public service that really started as a volunteer in the City of Germantown volunteering in the, in the city of Memphis or having served as a City Councilman in Germantown, now County Commissioner.

I've really enjoyed public service.

Some people have hobbies and serve on a million boards.

I've really enjoyed the last nine years as a commissioner.

We are blessed to have a lot of influence on helping people.

And that's what draws me to public service.

So similar to Commissioner Turner, I'm keeping the door open for what that next place is.

But I am interested.

- Just a couple of minutes left as briefly as possible the pipeline, the Plains All-American Pipeline, I always say it backwards.

- Byhalia Connector.

- The Byhalia Connector.

Thank you.

There's a lot of talk and potential movement.

Are you in favor of stopping it in its current form?

- Yes.

- In terms of the 1,500 feet setback?

I am still considering that because we have so many pipelines in Shelby County.

I think it's pretty far reaching and we've got to be sure we're doing our homework before we just restrict and maybe affect the pipelines that are already in Shelby County.

- Yes, some 600 miles of pipeline.

- Exactly.

- But if you can find an ordinance or an action that would restrict that one specifically, you're more in favor of it?

It doesn't impact any other.

- I am more inclined, yes.

To be sure we protect our neighborhoods.

- What is next?

I'm sorry.

In your other life, I'm sorry to race through this with you.

You are head of Green Spaces, that includes the Health Sciences Park.

The remains of Nathan Bedford Forrest and wife are now gone.

There's still some construction going on.

What is next for that park?

And what did you feel when those remains were finally removed?

- It was a great relief.

I was happy to work with all participants to make sure we safely transition those remains.

And what's next for the park right now is just to allow the park to be a park and we'll see what's in the future.

But I think everyone just needs to allow the park to breathe and just be a park for now.

Green Space.

- All right right.

Well thank you both.

I didn't give enough time for either of those, but appreciate it.

Thank you, Bill.

Again, join us again next week.

If you've missed any of the show, you can get the full video and online at wkno.org or search Behind the Headlines on YouTube.

Thanks.

We'll see you next week.

[intense orchestral music] [acoustic guitar chords]