- (female announcer)   Production funding for   Behind The Headlines   is made possible in part by   the WKNO Production Fund,   the WKNO Endowment Fund,   and by viewers like   you, thank you.

- The chair of the Shelby County School Board tonight, on Behind The Headlines.

[intense orchestral music] I'm Eric Barnes with The Daily Memphian.

Thanks for joining us.

I am joined tonight by Michelle Robinson McKissack, the relatively new chair of the Shelby County School Board.

Thanks for being here.

- It's my pleasure to be here.

- Along with Daja Henry, reporter with The Daily Memphian who covers education and other issues for us.

Again, thanks for being here.

As we go into this new year and in your term, I guess what?

Two months now, I think you told me that you've been board chair.

There's a lot as always going on with Shelby County Schools from the potential name change, to COVID obviously, continue sort of realigning and closing in consolidation of schools.

I think that's where I wanna start.

What Joris Ray, the Superintendent of Schools and you all have called the Re-imagine 901 program.

There are some votes, I believe next week, on closing a few schools, consolidating the ones that, and again, if my timing's off, I apologize, but Shady Grove Elementary and Alton Elementary Schools will be closed and the students moved to other schools.

There's two others, I believe, that are on deck.

It is obviously disruptive.

I don't think that I haven't heard anybody at Shelby County Schools say that this isn't disruptive, but why is it necessary?

- It's necessary because there's such a great need.

For example, with Shady Grove, the school is, there not enough students in that building and it's been declining for many years.

So by the very nature of only being a few hundred there, by moving them to another school, it also provides more opportunity for those students, more resources.

And it brings students back to their, I think there are just a handful, truly a handful in the neighborhood, who actually go to that school.

The most are coming in from someplace else.

So right-sizing in a sense of putting students back in their neighborhood schools, but also providing those students that were at Shady Grove, placing them in school environments where they have more resources.

- An example of resources and opportunities would be what?

- For example, just the staffing, you know, certainly for the teachers and the type and quality of classes that are able to get and exposed to more say, for example, at the elementary school level, having more resources with their music classes and things of that nature.

So all these little bitty hidden things that when you have, you know, less students in a school, then you'll be sharing teachers where teachers coming from another school and driving over to your school to provide music classes for you.

So things of that nature.

- Where are we in the overall?

I mean, this has been going on for some time.

I mean, it's basically, it's in some ways a by-product of the consolidation, deconsolidation the school system, school facilities that are old and really just not in great repair, there's bigger capacity, I mean, back to Dorsey Hopson, the previous superintendent, there was just conversation, we have too many schools and too many buildings that are too empty.

Where are we in that process of closing and consolidating schools?

Are there more to come?

Are there a lot more to come?

- Well, you know, when Dorsey Hopson was superintendent, we tabled a plan.

'Cause at that point it was focused on purely buildings and reducing the number of students that were in half empty buildings.

Now, it's Re-Imagine 901 is looking at the whole scope, not just the actual structures and buildings, but what's taking place in those buildings.

And so, for example, excuse me, another school that's being impacted or potentially impacted is with Middle College and Maxine Smith and East High School.

And so the plan or proposed plan is to have Maxine Smith move into East High School because the majority, the overwhelming majority of students matriculate onto East High School.

And so right now, it's so close having Middle College and Maxine Smith, two really great schools in one building, they are busting at the seams.

And so that is another reason why we are trying to right-size that situation, what has been proposed by the administration.

- And again, are there many, many more to come or do you feel like you're getting to the...

There may always be shifts, it's a big school system, but in terms of the more dramatic ones that we kinda come into the end of that.

- I wouldn't say maybe coming to the end, there will be others to come in the future, but this is the very first way that we felt was most urgent.

- Okay, let me bring in Daja.

- Yeah, and could you, I wanna get more into like the details of these first two schools that are kinda Alton and Shady Grove.

So what are kinda the plans for the buildings and also the teachers and principals that are coming from Alton and Shady Grove?

Well, as far as the buildings go, I know that is still a conversation.

A lot of times what happens with our buildings, once we move out of them, there is an interest from a charter organization that would like to acquire the building.

So I know tha the administration, they're always keeping that open.

We also have sold buildings in the past.

We bulldoze buildings when they've been, you know, sitting there for so long and just not good for anyone to be in it, no matter who's coming in and where the traditional SCS or a charter school.

As far as the teachers and staff goes, we need them.

So there is you know, no shortage of positions within Shelby County Schools at this time as is the case across the country of dealing with staffing issues.

So we definitely would say there's room for you within SCS.

- Mm hmm, and then also I just, I noticed the, on the presentation about this proposed plan that, you know, Eric mentioned different supports for our, you mentioned different supports for the students.

I saw that AB Hill is an I-Zone school, and that was something that was kinda given us like a pro for those students from Alton who are going into that.

What kinda supports, additional supports, would those like, I-Zone schools have?

- I-Zone schools are very intensive program where we're dealing with students who need additional support academically.

And so, they have programs set in place where there is a little bit longer school day, just more intensive tutoring within the school day.

So things of that nature, to provide those students, to help bring them back to where they should be academically.

- Another big change, you mentioned charters.

I wanna come back to that, but another big change in the offing is the governor in, I believe October, put forward a notion of changing up the formula, BEP, basic education something.

I need Bill here, or, you know, - Program.

- Program, [mumbles] Basic Education Program that's been a place for some 30 years.

It's been a point of contention for lots of school districts.

He put forward a plan, and his education commissioner has been doing listening tours around the state.

The basic plan that's been put forward to the legislature that's going into session right now with summaries by our Nashville reporter or Capitol Hill reporter is, you know, "It keeps the basic ingredients of the old formula in place, "but there are additional considerations in the formula "for factors such as concentrated poverty, "rural district, and unique learning needs.

"Also some direct funding for fast-growing districts "and tutoring for third grade students who scored in the below range on statewide testing."

That gets to be a big deal because of the new state law where third graders can be held back if they're not performing at an acceptable level, what is your take on the new funding proposal?

There's no guarantee the legislature will pass it or they won't maybe change it.

But is it going in the right direction?

- Well, I was on a call just last week.

I served from the Tennessee School Board Association board as well, and talking with other school board members from across the state.

And at this point, you know, we're all looking at it cautiously but optimistically.

And anytime you talk about student-based funding and making it more student-centered, that's a very good thing.

So we're looking at it.

There's still a lot to pour through.

We just had it just a few days as you know, and, but I think it's promising.

- I think some critics I've heard say, well, it's not a really a particularly big increase in the overall amount of state funding.

It's a shifting.

And so that means the pie isn't getting bigger, it's just being cut up in different ways.

And I think there's always a certain amount of concern among local politicians, local residents, that the state won't necessarily be fair to Memphis in the way Memphis wants.

Sometimes that plays out accurately and sometimes that's our, you know, our nervousness about the decisions that are made up there.

- So it's always to be guarded when it comes to Memphis and certainly Shelby County Schools because a lot seems to be skewed toward other parts of the state.

But that said, like I said, I'm guardedly optimistic about it.

I have heard that there isn't additional funding or a whole lot of extra funding coming into and how they're going to reallocate it.

So that's definitely something to watch, I think, in terms of how they proportion those dollars.

And when you start saying things like, oh, for districts that are growing in size or higher performing districts to give them additional dollars, I've heard that put out there as well.

That gives me pause because we definitely need to focus on students who need it the most, students with disabilities, English as second language learners, and certainly high poverty, which is a greater majority of the Memphis Shelby County Schools district.

- Yeah, Daja.

- And just another, so there's another action on the state level, a bill passed or a bill moving through about school vouchers.

And in that bill, you know, the first iteration of it mentioned mask mandates, students who went to the schools with mask mandates and in virtual learning were to be eligible for vouchers.

Now, the mask mandate part was taken out, but also eligibility for students in the Achievement School District, which a lot of those schools are in Shelby County.

What do you make of that bill, and like, do you think that will affect Shelby County Schools?

- Everything that's happening in Nashville affects Shelby County Schools.

But as far as this new proposal that's floating out there with the ESA, the savings accounts, what's different about it this time is like previously, it impacted just Shelby County Schools, Memphis Shelby County Schools, and Metro Nashville.

Well, now, this has the potential of affecting other school districts across the state.

And that is where I think they're gonna get pushback from, not just from us, but from other folks who's, you know, who were okay with it being just the two largest school districts, but now if it may impact them, that's gonna be an issue, a real issue.

So I think I'm concerned about it, but I think there's strength in numbers and having other school districts come in and see that this is not the best thing for any public school district is what I'm hopeful about.

- Another bit was to stay with the legislature for a second.

There's a proposal to prohibit Tennessee Department of Education from providing funding for undocumented students.

It's a Republican proposal that's been put forward.

There are, it's not, again, not clear it's gonna pass, and there are already some legal questions about it, but I'm gonna guess that you all would not want to see funding ended for undocumented students.

- Absolutely not.

I mean, children need to be educated, period.

No matter who they are, no matter where they come from.

And that is our duty and our responsibility to this next generation, to educate them and do the very best that we can to give them all the tools for success in life.

So I certainly hope it doesn't pass because no matter what, they are here and they're not going away, and there are a part of our future workforce.

And so we have to, we have that responsibility.

- I've talked about some of the proposals that I've read about that are coming forward.

Are there proposals you'd like to see?

I mean, there are changes that you think are doable at the legislative session this year that would help Shelby County Schools or schools throughout the state?

- I think when they talk about that student-based funding formula, I was really happy about that because that has not really been the focus over the last 30-plus years.

So really looking at the individual child instead of this monolithic school district, which, you know, when you get away from looking at faces and seeing that these are real people, young people.

And so actually taking it down to the individual level, what these students need.

That is what I'd like to see everyone focused upon.

- Another big one, actually in the legislature.

I was thinking I was gonna move away from it, but I couldn't.

The state does, you know, when the session starts, there's always a lot of potential change here in Memphis and Shelby County, is the Germantown schools, the three Gs.

And, you know, there's been negotiations between SCS and City of Germantown, Germantown Municipal School District about handing those three schools over hasn't really happened, but there is a proposal.

I think it's Mark White in the State House, who's put forward a proposal to essentially force that and make that happen.

What is your take on that legislation, and what is the status of the negotiations with the Germantown?

- That's definitely a hot topic.

And so as far as the Germantown schools, and that was something that was so contentious, what was that, gosh, 10, 12 years ago, but as far as now, wow, I tell you, you got me on that one, because it is so touchy.

And I know Shelby County Schools, we feel that we have to serve these students, and we want to make sure that no matter what, they are taken care of.

And as far as the buildings go, I certainly would wanna see these buildings just given back over for free because that's a big asset as a part of the school district.

So I'm hoping that, you know, the conversations that are being had behind the scenes, that they can work them all out.

- From the Shelby County School side, is that Dr. Ray's, the superintendent, I mean, is he involved with that?

Is it the school board?

It ultimately would have to come to the school board for a vote, right?

- So I know that Kevin Woods.

I mean, that is his district that he represents.

So he is very much involved with that board member.

- School board member, yeah.

- Thank you.

School board member Kevin Woods is very much involved with that.

I know he's had conversations with Representative White regarding it, but of course, our general counsel, Dr. Ray, all part of those conversations to try to have the best outcome for students in the end.

- Okay, Daja.

- I also wanna talk about the Achievement School District and the four schools that were returned to Shelby County Schools.

So it's been 10 years for the 1st of those schools.

So what, like, what do you think is the lesson that, or was there a lesson?

What was, just like, what do you think came from that?

- This is a reminder to everyone that it's tough.

It's tough for everyone when you're dealing with students who have so many needs.

And it's really easy to look on the outside, looking in, it's like, well, why don't they just do this or why don't they just do that?

And it's not for lack of talent within Shelby County Schools, there's immense talent with our educators and the plans put in place is that you have to fire on all cylinders.

It's not enough just to say, okay, I'm gonna teach a child.

Well, you gotta make sure they get fed before they get there.

You gotta make sure they get a coat just to walk out the door.

You have to make sure that sometimes that they're power is on their house.

I visited a home and I was, you know, to deliver some goods.

And it was on a cold day.

And all the children in the house came to the door with coats on.

Their power was out.

So we had to address that before we could even give them the laptops that they needed.

So I think, you know, for the state, I hope this makes them realize it's not just with these four schools but all the schools that are impacted here in Memphis Shelby County and other parts of the state, that it isn't just, you know, whatever that school district is not doing right by the students or doesn't know how to do right by it.

And so I'm glad to see that those schools are coming back into the fold so that they can get that level of attention and care that they can get locally from folks who are right there in front of them.

- The Achievement School District, just for people not close to Achievement School.

This was set up.

I believe it was 10 years ago as part of a whole lot of reforms.

It was basically a new way for the state to intercede, take over low-performing schools across the state.

There were about, I think at its peak, there were maybe 60 or 70 schools.

There were a lot of schools in the Achievement School District.

It's now down to about 27.

All of them in Shelby and Davidson Counties, most of those are in Shelby County.

It was the four schools, Frayser Achievement, Corning Achievement, Georgian Hills Elementary, Whitney Achievement School.

They'll go back in July, 2022.

And the future of the ASD is very unclear, right?

I mean, it's just not clear.

There's been some successes.

There's been, it hadn't lived up to the, mean, I think it's fair to say the standards it set up for itself, it hasn't worked.

But did it also maybe, even if it was not a perfectly implemented program, did it also put pressure on Shelby County Schools to say, well, we don't want our schools to go into what we view as a failed program, the ASD.

So we're gonna make some changes ourselves.

I mean, I-Zone in part, right?

Came out of that.

Like, that'll be our internal way of trying to really throw more resources at schools.

So again, does the pressure of ASD, even if ASD itself hasn't always righted wrongs, does the pressure or the threat of it drive you all to make change and do better?

- I think putting the spotlight is always a good thing, you know?

It's always good to have that outside perspective to see, like, what can we do better?

What can Shelby County Schools do better?

So in that sense, I think ASD was successful in putting that spotlight on areas that we needed to focus on more so.

And I was meeting with the Commissioner Penny Schwinn a couple of weeks ago, and she was saying that she was happy to see these schools coming back into under local control.

It was never meant for ASD to have these schools forever and ever.

It was always meant to try to, you know, strengthen these schools and then have them be a part of their local school districts again.

So in that sense, I think it has been successful in that regard that bringing them back into SCS.

But it certainly was a good thing to put a spotlight on, where do we need to do better?

- Yeah, Daja.

- I wanna move to COVID, which is always a big thing.

So just pulled some numbers before the break, Shelby County Schools, COVID cases for students were at about like 50 to 60 cases.

And now we see like the latest data was just over a thousand cases.

So I guess I wanna hear more about like, what are the Shelby County Schools doing to mitigate those or not necessarily to mitigate, well yes to mitigate, but also to combat that surge in cases?

We know that virtual schools is not an option and that Shelby County Schools has talked extensively about having plans set in place.

So just wanted to hear more about like the plans for like, teachers and students being absent.

- Right, and this isn't a theoretical thing for me.

I've got a daughter who's in the fifth grade at Shelby County Schools.

And so it's a concern for me as a parent that she and all of her friends and certainly every student within Shelby County Schools is safe.

And so something that I was happy to see that they did make a change with is implementing once a week testing.

As you know, Shelby County Schools has had testing since the beginning of the school year.

In fact, I was a part of the conversations with Mayor Strickland and his team when they were formulating the whole test to protect program, and finally be at a chance to implement it with this school year where students were tested every two weeks.

Now, they're tested every week.

In addition to that, we're still just maintaining, or as Dr. Ray loves to say staying the course in terms of masking, hand-washing, sanitizing, social distancing.

I know that my daughter has to sit in particular spaces, even at lunchtime.

So if they have to do any contact tracing that they know where they were sitting and who they were sitting next to even at lunchtime.

So it's just a matter of continuing to be diligent.

We're certainly encouraging parents to get their students vaccinated.

I was thrilled when my daughter got vaccinated and she was happy herself to wear her "I got vaccinated today" pin.

So all those, in addition to getting tested, if you feel that you have a sniffle, nine times out of ten, according to all the experts, it's likely to be the Omicron variant.

So I think all of that and just continuing to do, I know the other school districts have come in and out of mask wearing, we have stayed the course the entire time.

And as a result, as you probably know, along with Metro Nashville, we had the lowest COVID rates in the entire state.

- And what about like on a staffing level?

You know, I'm hearing from a lot of teachers that, oh, other teachers are absent and sometimes they have to combine classes or do different things like that.

What does that plan look like for staffing?

I know that Shelby County Schools has mentioned the central office staff and like bringing different people in.

Could you talk more about that?

- Well, that's exactly what's happening.

It's like when there is a situation where we don't have the staffing because a teacher is sick perhaps, or some other staff member, then it's shored up from other help coming within the school building.

And certainly the district has offered the administrative staff at the board of education to come and fill those gaps because you know that that opportunity we had as far as learning from home in those isolated incidents, it's very hard to get that clearance from the state.

And because we are the largest school district in the state, you know, there's taking that, we have the staffing opportunity to fill those gaps.

But it's a challenge for sure.

I mean, I've seen it with my own daughter's classroom where they have had to separate students into other classes.

But they come back within a week's time and just, they're doing well.

- In the summer before the start of the school year, you all decided to end, Shelby County Schools decided to end their contract for pre-K programs with Porter-Leath.

It had been in place for a long time, some thousands of pre-K students who were there and instead SCS wanted to ramp up its own pre-K program.

How is that pre-K program doing?

- From what I understand, it's going well, 'cause as you know that Shelby County Schools was providing a great deal of the support and staffing anyhow for the Porter-Leath program.

So I believe the mindset was that, you know, we're already doing so much of this, let's just go ahead and bring it in-house so that we can even have more control over providing students with what they need.

So that is the, what I believe what took place is just to have something that they were already doing, like you know, say, have a percent of the program for Porter-Leath to now just to do it 100%.

- And with few minutes left here, we touched on charter schools.

There are a few charter schools that are, maybe have already been voted to be shut down or are kind of on the hot seat.

I think Memphis Academy of Health Sciences was shut down, is that right?

And two KIPP charter schools are under review as well as Memphis STEM Academy.

And that's a process that happens.

Do I have that right, Daja?

- Memphis STEM Academy kept their charter but the two KIPP schools are under, they'll go over for a vote next week.

- Okay, yes, sorry to the Memphis STEM Academy and people, thank you.

Charter schools, we've had them in force, you know, for a decade or more now.

Are they, I mean, what is your view?

You don't have formal oversight.

Is there separate from, you know, whether they're parallel to, I guess one would say to the Shelby County School system, but I mean, when you see a charter school being shut down, does that give you pause?

Are you glad or are you, what is your view of the relationship between SCS and the charter schools?

- I would never use the word "glad".

It's like the worst thing ever to have to close a school, but when it really calls for it, I don't take that lightly.

No one on the board takes it very lightly when they come before us with the hearings and layout all the information.

So when a school is closed down, it's for a very big, big reason because there's so much latitude given to try to correct the problem.

As far as relationship with charter schools, I think I see it as a part of the portfolio of schools for Shelby County Schools, because we're all about giving families choice.

And for some families, that's the choice that they choose.

We have wonderful selection of schools within SCS, but for some families, charter schools are what they're looking for.

So that's what we should provide.

- There's a fair amount of funding that passes through.

I mean, the funding can go, education funding is obviously very complex.

It'd be federal money that goes to the state, state to the county, goes through all sort of channels of funding.

But a lot of the funding for charter schools does run through Shelby County Board of Ed.

There were some concerns among some charter schools that they, where are they gonna get all the federal dollars that were coming?

Where are they gonna get the money that they felt was due to them?

And you seen any problems from your seat as board chair with funding going to charter schools?

- As far as funding that it has to come through Shelby County Schools, the money that is designated for them goes to them because the money follows the student.

It goes with the student to whatever school that they attend.

So we're very, our CFO, she's on top of it to make sure that everyone gets what they deserve.

- And with just 30 seconds left here, y'all are proposing a name change?

I think that's up next week.

Is that right?

It's formerly Shelby County Schools right now, the new name would be Memphis Shelby County Schools?

- Memphis Shelby County Schools because there are so many Shelby Counties across the country, but whenever you go somewhere to a conference, they're like, Shelby County Schools, so where's that?

So Memphis, we're very proud.

We're in Memphis, we will let folks know it.

- Okay, and I mean, again, that's next week that that happens?

I think a lot of people, I mean-- - Well, you know.

- It's a big name change, but it's not.

And you know-- - Yeah, right.

It's just, you know, big, but not that big.

So we're Memphis.

- Okay, all right, we'll leave it there.

Thank you very much for joining us, thank you.

And if you missed any tonight, you can get the full episode on YouTube, or you can go to wkno.org and search for Behind The Headlines.

You can also get the podcast to the show on iTunes, Spotify, The Daily Memphian site, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Thanks and we'll see you next week.

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