- (female announcer)   Production funding for   Behind the Headlines   is made possible in part by   the WKNO Production Fund,   the WKNO Endowment Fund,   and by viewers like   you, thank you.

- Shelby County Sheriff, Floyd Bonner, tonight on Behind the Headlines.

[intense orchestral music] I'm Eric Barnes with The Daily Memphian, and thanks for joining us.

I am joined tonight by Floyd Bonner, Sheriff, Shelby County.

Thanks for being here again.

- Thank you for having me.

- Along with Bill Drees, reporter with The Daily Memphian.

We'll talk about a lot today, but we'll start with hiring.

It is a challenge as, I mean the, the Memphis Police Department has talked about it.

I believe it's a challenge nationally, of hiring police officers, law enforcement officers.

Let me lay the groundwork here.

You've got about 585, almost 600 people on your staff who are correction officers, what lay people would think of as a guard at the, at the, at the jail, you've got about 700 who are law enforcement patrolling unincorporated Shelby County, working on gang units.

Other kinds of things that we'll talk about.

You're looking to hire 200.

- Yes.

- Those 200 will be doing what?

- Well, we're trying to hire 200 officers for our correction staff.

Right now, Eric, we're really making a strong push for correction officer, of being 200 short, we are offering $500, excuse me, $5,000 incentive hiring and retention bonuses.

We're even offering our employees $1000 if they refer someone to us that actually gets through the entire process.

So, we've been going out into the community.

Just a couple of weeks ago, we were at Riverside Baptist Church.

On October the 23rd, we will be at New Salem's Missionary Baptist Church on Parkway.

Dr. Ray's church, we'll be there from 10:00 to 2:00.

We'll have our HR department there to help people with applications or help filling them out.

And then even some of the chiefs will be there to do a first, first interview.

- Right.

And is this, is this 200 net, new officers, or have you just seen a loss in the number of, and I apologize if I use the terms officer and law enforcement interchangeably here, but.

- No.

- What is driving this need?

- Well, just this year alone, we've had 57 officers to leave out of corrections for various reasons.

Some have retired, then you have firings, you have people that just don't want to do the work anymore.

So, you know, when you lose 57 in just 8, 9 months you know, it really makes a huge impact on the operations right now.

So we're trying to get our numbers back up, get that number up to a very comfortable number where we're not doing mandatory overtime or anything like that.

And that, you know, just a little less stress for the officers working in the jail.

- We'll come back to the jail.

I'm going to do one more question and we'll go to Bill about, and so these is any of this, this hiring driven by either you all took over some of unincorporated Shelby County as part of de-annexation to do patrolling, and more what people think of as policing.

Did any, did that drive any of this?

- No, no.

That didn't because law enforcement and then corrections, so you kind of look at it two sided with the Sheriff's Office.

- And then this last year, the whole country, I mean, I think the FBI came out with numbers that violent crime was up some 20%, just- - 30.

- Just 30% nationally.

It's up locally.

There is a crime problem in this country, and in this city and region, is that also driving the need?

- Well, it's driving our numbers in that, you know, with more crime, more people are going to get arrested.

The need for correction officers is still very much so.

It's a very good profession, you know.

We've even raised the pay.

We're starting off at $41,000, almost $42,000.

And with a new correction officer coming in, then with that $5,000 hiring and retention bonus, you know, your first year, you could make close to $45,000 with benefits and everything.

So you've seen a lot of things there's driving it.

We're no different than anyone else in the community.

We're having problems hiring.

I'm only about 75 law enforcement officers down.

We're in pretty good shape there.

- Which is still a lot though.

- Still a lot, but... - I mean its 10% of your numbers.

- Right, right, but we're still able to function and participate in all the task force and all of those things that we're doing right now.

And we'll drive another class probably, hire another class, excuse me, in December.

- Okay.

- So we'll, we'll keep that, you know, we're really trying to keep a close watch on our numbers.

- Okay.

Bill.

- Sheriff, so, so what, what is your response to, to violent crime specifically in the city?

Because as we mentioned, your, your area in unincorporated Shelby County has actually increased with the de-annexations.

But what is the Sheriff's Department's role in violent crime within the City of Memphis?

- Well, Bill, the Sheriff's office inside the City of Memphis, you know, naturally Memphis has their own Police Department.

Chief Davis and I have really become good friends after she's taken over from Director Rallings.

And we have collaborated with different issues that were going on in Memphis, Slow Down Memphis.

We have a Metro gang unit that we participate in.

Our narcotics unit works inside the city limit most of the time, I'd say at least 90 to 95% of the time.

So we feel like we're doing our part and we're going to do more, as much as we can.

I've never told the City of Memphis Police Department no.

Jim Strickland and I, Mayor Strickland, we've had conversations when he's asked for help on certain issues.

We, we've been able to do it.

So we will continue that.

We don't look, we, the Sheriff's Office do not necessarily have access to all of Memphis crime data like we do with our own.

So when there's a problem or when there's an issue and you know, I see it on the news, just like you do.

And, but when there are specific issues that we can help, certainly we're going to be there.

- As we record this, I think in the last week, you formally announced that you'll be running for another four year term, and in talking about the, the last four years you talked about how, how the pandemic, COVID-19, has really not only hit your agency, but, it's had an impact on the role of law enforcement overall.

What have you not been able to do in the past four years because of that, that you had hoped to do?

- Well, just me, as the Sheriff, being able to get out in the community, to talk with people, to form these partnerships and relationships.

The things that I really, really hold value.

And I think that can really make a difference in our city and the crime.

I think it's very important for me to be out visible, being a role model, seeing small children, talking to small children, coming from Orange Mound and Westwood, you know, growing up in those neighborhoods.

I think it's very important.

I said when I was first elected, I didn't ever want anybody to not know what a Sheriff's Office uniform looks like.

So the last year and a half, two years, basically we've been inside.

So, I'm looking forward to us turning the corner with COVID.

It certainly has affected our operations in the Sheriff's office.

We've had 495 officers that have tested positive over the the past year and a half.

I've lost four correction deputies due to death, and one law enforcement due to death due to COVID.

So when you see a person that, that's worked beside you for years and years, and they're no longer there.

Then you know, it mentally, you know, we're, we're having to task our mental health providers to help us through all of these things.

So those are some of the things that, you know, I hoped to accomplish, you know, and just hadn't been able to get it done because of COVID.

- There's also been litigation over conditions at, at the county jail during this.

Where do you feel like the facility is, in terms of taking those COVID precautions for people who are, we should point out pre-trial detainees.

- Yeah, I'm glad you did point that out Bill, because we are a pre-trial facility, meaning that people are there in our facility, because one, they don't make bond or they, or the cases hadn't been heard yet.

So it's not like a jail, or penitentiary, or correction center, whatever you want to call it.

But our jail is not that way.

Our population flows constantly, you know, up and down.

I think as of today, we were at 2100 inmates, detainees, if you will, at the jail right now.

We have vaccinated over about 650 people, that, now not to say that that entire 650 is still with us, as I said, they could.

- That's since, whenever that would be.

- Right, right.

- January, March, February.

- When Governor Lee gave us permission to start, to start vaccinating, we're using Johnson and Johnson, we're cleaning, we're doing everything that we know to do.

We are tied up in, in this lawsuit, and we're talking about it, but we're doing all that we can do.

Just, we have vaccinations every Thursday.

I think this past Thursday, we had 25.

We're paying detainees $20 to take the vaccine.

We just had a raffle yesterday, where 3 of our detainees received $100 because they had been vaccinated.

We're doing pizza parties in the pods for the most detainees in a pod that had, that have been vaccinated.

We're having, providing pizza parties for them.

So, you know, we're providing education information.

One of the things, especially in the African-American community, you hear about the Tuskegee Experiment.

And a lot of times we, we don't always know what that Tuskegee Experiment is all about.

So we're providing education paper-wise, as well as videos with Barack Obama, LeBron James, trying to encourage the inmates.

And no one is being penalized for not taking the vaccine.

You know, it's a personal choice.

I get it.

But we're not making any detainees take the vaccine, but we are highly encouraging them, and trying to give them incentives to do that.

- Are, what other precautions are you able to take?

I mean, are, is everyone, are detainees masked?

- We were masked because we saw COVID coming early on.

And we were, we were starting to gear up with our cleaning materials and everything.

Right at the beginning, I got over 2000 masks, received over 2000 masks from the state.

Being able, because of the partnerships that I formed, I was able to pick up the telephone and they sent me to 2000 masks immediately.

Our females are housed out at Jail East and out there at Jail East, we had the detainees out there making masks for us.

So you know, we had officers in masks immediately.

We, we provided masks for the detainees pretty much very on at the very beginning.

- Testing wise.

I mean, are you, what is your testing regimen now?

- Well, we're testing each and every, you know, you can't make anyone take a test.

You remember, I think maybe a few months ago, we had a big high number where we tested positive.

And we went throughout the entire facility asking all of those detainees who wants to be tested.

And well naturally, not knowing what COVID was all about, and people coming in and out of the facility and everything.

That's why we had a big number from the very beginning.

But now when a detainee comes to jail, they're automatically quarantined for two weeks.

- Oh, so on intake.

- In intake, when you first enter our facility, you're going to be quarantined.

And the questions are asked, have you been vaccinated?

One of our challenges that we're trying to get over right now, is to get a vaccine down there at the facility where we can do it site, if a detainee comes in and says, no, I hadn't been vaccinated, however I would like to be vaccinated.

We want to do it right then before they change their mind.

- What sort of, so if someone, what do you, do you have any sense of the percentage of, of, of detainees who choose to get tested on a regular basis?

I mean, is it maybe a quarter?

Is it less than, even that much?

- It's probably less than a quarter, you know.

- What happens, if someone tests positive, are they then quarantined, and what does that mean?

Quarantine, there they're in a jail, in a cell alone?

- Quarantine.

That's just like you would, for instance, if you tested positive, everyone in your house would quarantine, what you would do.

- Well, I'm not in a jail.

I'm just trying to get a lay of the land.

- But no, no, no.

But what I'm saying is you would do it at home, where an entire pod would have to quarantine.

So we're talking probably close to 40 people.

They're going to have to be isolated, quarantined for a couple of weeks then.

- And is that caused, I mean, one of our reporters had gotten, I guess, letters from people inside, that, you know, an immense amount of frustration.

There were some, I don't know, protests or there were some fires.

What, what kind of reaction and response have you had from the population to this quarantining and this isolation?

- Well, we hadn't had any fires or anything, but sure.

They're disappointed because they can't get out and make phone calls, talk with their loved ones.

They can't do the normal things that they would do during rec time and stuff, so, yes, it's stress on them, stress on the staff, because now you're asking officers to go in there in that particular pod, where you know someone has tested positive for COVID.

We have PPE equipment for our officers and stuff, but, you know, it creates a lot of stress for everyone.

- Last, before I go back to Bill, are you requiring vaccines of guards?

- Not requiring vaccines for anyone.

- About what level of uptake can you say have you had of vaccination among your staff?

- I can't really say, Eric, because of the HIPAA laws and stuff.

I don't really, you know, I don't, I'm not making them take vaccines.

- Bill.

- The County Commission voted this past week to accept a report from the Juvenile Justice Consortium that, that takes a position that the US Justice Department should again, become involved in some kind of oversight over juvenile court, and your part of this is not the court, but it is the Juvenile Detention Center.

Do you think the Justice Department needs to come back in and at least take a look at how things work in your part of the system?

- Well, Bill, I have no issues if the Justice Department wants to come back, want to come back to take a look at this.

In 2018, when I was elected, I hired Dr. David Rouse as a consultant.

He was one of our harshest critics.

As a matter of fact, when we offered Dr.

Rouse an opportunity to be a consultant for us, he was really surprised because he said, "Golly man, I, you know, I kind of rough you guys up."

But Bill, that's what we wanted.

I mean, we want to be the best that we can be, so we hired Dr.

Rouse, and we presented a letter to the County Commission.

We're trying to let them know that we're doing it the right way.

Our, our room confinements are down.

Our juveniles are having what they call circle up meetings, several times during the day.

And this gives the juvenile an opportunity to get some things off his chest.

So I think that we're moving in the right direction.

Our room confinement is down.

So if DOJ wants to come in and talk to us, or take a look at what we're doing, we welcome it.

I mean, we're, we're not afraid of it at all.

We think we're really moving.

The accolades that we receive from the Annie Casey Foundation, Marc Soler and, and all of those, and we only want the best for the kids.

And that's what I get a little frustrated about, because all of us want the same thing, but we don't always talk.

And so I would just relish the opportunity, even with the consult, with the consortium, they presented a report to the, to the County Commission that was in 2019.

The last time we really heard from someone from there was in 2020, and basically, she's no longer with the consortium anymore.

And we, she asked us what we needed.

And she, we told her books, reading material, artwork, and stuff, and she provided a ton of it.

So for this consortium to go in front of the the County Commission about a 2019 report, not reading all the information that we had, all of the things that we've done to better juvenile court, you know, it was a bit disappointing for me, you know, but we're, we're not afraid of it.

- And to let people know, the Sheriff's Office does not make any decisions about who is detained in terms of juvenile court.

That, the juveniles come to you as a result of a court decision to hold them in custody or not hold them in custody, right?

- Well, we do in a sense, cause you know, I have officers that are out on the street.

We do not have anything to do with transfers.

And I think that's the big issue that some people are really concerned about.

Who stays as a juvenile, who's being transferred to adult court.

Now that's strictly juvenile court, that's Judge Michael, and they make those decisions.

We're only responsible for detention.

- All right.

You've participated, along with other leaders in the criminal justice system, in some of the marches that, that have taken place in areas that have been hit, hit hard by violent crime.

There have been so many marches over so many years that I'm sure you've participated in, even before you were, you were Sheriff.

What is it about that experience?

Is this an opportunity to put a spotlight on violent crime to say, we know it's here, or, or what, what purpose do you think that?

- Well, I think Bill, anytime you get a chance to engage in a community, especially certain sections of our community that is experiencing high rates of violent crime.

And to know, or let those citizens know, that we are behind them.

We want to see all the violent crime drop just like everyone else.

If you look at, you know, my wife goes to the mall.

I don't, but my wife goes to the mall, and everyone goes to the mall, you know, so a safer Memphis, a safer Shelby County, is going to make it safe for all of us.

So, myself being out there, as Sheriff, I think is very important for me to be there.

And I so appreciate Stevie Moore and the Memphis Crime Commission for what they're doing and putting these walks together and stuff, because we get a chance to actually talk to citizens in the community and they cheer us on a lot of times, yeah.

- Oh, go ahead.

- In the last week, we we've had an active, what's known as an active shooter incident in, in Collierville.

As a law... - We should say that we're taping this on Tuesday this week, and that still could be a fluid situation, but go ahead.

- From, from a law enforcement perspective, I think you kind of look at these incidents on a broader continuum of violence as opposed to just isolating them, correct?

- Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And, and Bill, I've kind of looked at some numbers and we've had, I think that the number was 57 already this year, those type of active shooter incidents, fifty-seven already.

And it, what surprises me, and a lot of people say that you know I was surprised that, that it had happened in Collierville.

And then I started thinking about, I said, you know, when do you ever see it in large cities?

Usually you do see them in suburbs.

Now what happened in Las Vegas happened, you know?

And, but when you see the smaller towns now, I don't know why that trend is there, but when you really think about it, and then try to come up with when and the where, it usually happens in suburbs, so.

- Come back to for a minute, the question of juvenile crime in two parts, there was, one is youth assessment center.

So there was an attempt at a youth assessment center where a MPD and I believe your office could take, could take kids there instead of taking them to juvenile court, you could potentially take him to an assessment center and keep them out of the justice system, unless absolutely necessary.

That, I think by all accounts, that effort didn't really work.

It was through the UTHSC.

There was, so... - It was a lot of logistics problems with that, because when we brought them down to UT, UT did not want us to have them handcuffed.

Well, I'm not going to ask an officer to take anyone in custody and not put them in handcuffs.

It's not safe for the officer.

So we had a lot of logistic things that we needed to work out.

So we, I think we're on track.

- So.

There's a new youth assessment center being built.

Going to be run by the county this time.

Why will this one work?

And what, if it works, what will it accomplish?

- Well, Dorcas Griffin will be over that, that center.

And I think we're going to, we still have some heavy lifting, but I think it will work that.

I think it will work because we are, all of us want the same thing again, is to keep these kids out of the juvenile, juvenile justice system.

I really, you know, I talk to people all the time and they say the school to prison pipeline.

And, you know, and so I, I really don't know what that looks like because I'm on the other side and I'm trying to fight to keep these kids out of the juvenile court system.

When I was an assistant chief at the Sheriff's Office, I was one of the first chiefs that signed on to criminal summons, juvenile court summons, instead of taking these kids down to a juvenile court, so I think we all want the same thing.

We just got to figure out a way how to make it work.

- To that end too, we had Joris Ray, Dr. Joris Ray, Superintendent of Shelby County Schools on the show recently.

You know nationally, and in Memphis a lot during COVID, during virtual school, a lot of kids just sort of disappeared from the system.

I mean, there were estimates as much as 25 or 30% of kids just not even logging into their computers every day.

And then that is either coincidental to, or, you know, a natural extension of that, is a huge increase in juvenile crime, nationally and locally.

What is your relationship with SCS and with kids who are truant, delinquent, not showing up.

We talked a little bit about that with Dr. Ray, but are you in communication with them?

Do they refer chronic truant kids to you all?

And do you go pick them up or how does all that work?

- Well, my relationship with Dr. Ray's great.

Just had lunch with him with him last week, myself and Chief Davis, we talked about some things.

Our SROs are on campuses, at certain campuses, all throughout SCS.

We're trying to, and this is something that I told Dr. Ray, is that we just don't draft officers to go to schools, schools are special.

They require an additional 40 hours of training.

We have to put the right officer in that school because we're not trying to put these kids in jail.

We want our officers to be mentors, someone that a kid can come and talk to if they're having an issue at school.

So there's a lot of things that go into this with our school, with our SROs or School Resource Officers.

- Two minutes, less than two minutes left, what, and we can do a whole show just on this question of, but the driving issues, the drag racing, the dangerous high-speed driving, I think you all, are you all back into patrolling the highways, one, and two, how can that be stopped?

Or is that even a reasonable goal?

- Well, we participated in Slow Down Memphis.

We wrote over 400 citations during that time, and it's not something to brag on.

All we were trying to do was correct behavior.

I think there's a lot of things that goes on, that is going on with, with the incidents out on the interstate.

And you got to Casarin Doctrine, where people are allowed to carry guns in their cars.

Now you're, you're now you're adding guns, you're adding speeding, and, and these guys and girls, I guess, with these muscle cars now.

I think we're just going to have to stay at it.

I think the Tennessee Highway Patrol, I have had a conversation with Director Long at the Governor's Office, and he's promising us additional troopers down here in this area because the troopers usually handled the interstate, and we've gone so many years without really patrolling the interstate.

- Why didn't the state, I should know this.

Why does the state patrol not monitor the, the highways here in the Memphis/Shelby County Area?

With 20 seconds left?

- Well, it's very difficult to answer that question, but let me say this, in Nashville, you see a lot of troopers.

- You see a lot of them.

You see a lot of them starting around Jackson.

- And in Memphis, you don't, and I will stop.

We'll stop right there.

- That, you are also a politician.

[Floyd laughs] I appreciate you being here, we had with many more things to get to, but we'll get you back.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you, Bill.

And thank you for joining us.

Join us again next week.

Get full episodes of the show online at wkno.org, or you can get the podcast to the show from The Daily Memphian site or wherever you get your podcasts.

Thanks.

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