>> SHERMAN PARK: THE AFTERMATH.

THE EVENTS OF THIS PAST WEEK IN SHERMAN PARK MADE NATIONAL NEWS AND NOW A DMONT IS IS COMING TOGETHER TO HEAL AND MOVE FORWARD.

BUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

MILWAUKEE PUBLIC TELEVISION AND WUWM PRESENT SHERMAN PARK: THE AFTERMATH.

>> THIS IS LAKE EFFECT FROM WUWM MILWAUKEE PUBLIC RADIO.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

A SPECIAL CO-PRODUCTION WITH MILWAUKEE PUBLIC TELEVISION OPENS OUR SHOW TODAY.

SHERMAN PARK: THE AFTERMATH.

NOW IS THE SUMMER OF OUR DISCONTENT IN MILWAUKEE AND A LOT OF DISCONTENT THERE HAS BEEN.

SOME OF THAT DISCONTENT IS NOT SURPRISING RCHGHT.

THE BREWERS WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE VERY GOOD THIS YEAR.

BUT THE VIOLENCE AND UNREST THAT HAS SWEPT THROUGH SHERMAN PARK, MAYBE THAT'S NO SURPRISING EITHER.

THAT'S ONE OF THE ISSUES WE'RE GOING TO GET INTO.

WE HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS ON THE RADIO EVERY DAY, BUT FOR THIS ONE WE HAVE A TELEVISION AUDIENCE JOINING US AS WELL.

WE'RE JOINED NOW BY THREE PEOPLE WITH A COUPLE OF THINGS IN COMMON.

THEY CARE A GREAT DEAL ABOUT THE FUTURE OF SHERMAN PARK AND THE CITY AS A WHOLE AND THEY'VE WRITTEN ELOQUENTLY ABOUT IT IN THE PAST WEEK.

REGGIE JACKSON IS BOARD CHAIR OF THE LEGACY FOUNDATION, THE GROUP THAT OVERSEES THE BLACK HOLOCAUST MUSEUM.

HIS PIECE IS CALLED "EVIDENCE OF THINGS UNKNOWN."

LAURA MARSHALL MAINTAINS A BLOG CALLED BLUE ON CENTER AND HER POST ON THE UNREST IS CALLED AN UNLIKELY FRIENDSHIP.

AND JAMES CAUSEY OF MPTV WROTE ABOUT THE DOWNWARD SPIRAL IN SHERMAN PARK IN HIS COLUMN FOR THE MILWAUKEE JOURNAL SENT SENTINEL.

WELCOME AND EXCELLENT WORK.

I WAS HOPE TO GO SET THE STAGE BY HEARING A LITTLE OF WHAT YOU AND LAURA MARSHALL EACH WROTE.

THEY'RE BOTH FAIRLY LONG PIECES, BUT IF YOU COULD SHARE JUST A PARAGRAPH FOR US TO GIVE US KIND OF A FLAVOR OF WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM.

REGGIE, IF YOU'D GO FIRST.

>> OKAY.

THIS IS THE PART WHERE I'M TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S THE NEXT STEP IN THE PROCESS.

THE FIRST STEP IN THE PROCESS IS TO LET THINGS CALM DOWN.

ONCE THAT TAKES PLACE AND THE ENTIRE LOCAL AND NATIONAL MEDIAúúúú TEAMS LEAVE THE NEIGHBORHOOD,úúúúúú THE RESIDENTS WILL BE FORCED TOúúúúú DEAL WITH THE DAMAGE, BOTHúúú PHYSICAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL.úú NO DOWNTRODDEN COMMUNITY HASúúú HEALED ITSELF ALONE.úúúú ALL OF THE DEVASTATING EVIDENCEúúúú POINTS TO A COMMUNITY THAT IS HURTING.

THIS IS HOW THEY CRY OUT FORú HELP.

IT MAY SEEM IRRATIONAL TO MANYúú INSIDE AND OUTSIDE THE COMMUNITY.

IF IT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO SEE THE PAIN MORE CLEARLY, PERHAPS ITúúúú WAS WORTHWHILE.úú IF THE CITY TAKES CORRECTIVEúú ACTIONS TO IMPROVE THE LIVES OFúúúú ITS AFRICAN-AMERICAN CITIZENS ASúúúú THE COMMISSION RECOMMENDED 49 YEARS AGO, IT WILL BE CONSIDEREDú PROGRESS.úúú RESOLVING THESE ISSUES WILL TAKEú TIME, PASSION, ENERGY, SYMPATHY,úúúú EMEMPATHY AND A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF COMPASSION AND HARD WORK.

>> THAT'S GREAT.

AND LAURA MARSHALL, YOUR PIECE WAS CALLED "AN UNLIKELY FRIENDSHIP."

>> TEN YEARS AGO I BEGAN AN UNLIKELY FRIENDSHIP.

I'D LIKE TO TELL YOU ABOUT MY FRIEND BECAUSE I'VE NEVER MET ANYONE LIKE HER.

SHE MEANS SO MUCH TO ME.

SHE'S STRUGGING RIGHT STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW.

MY FRIEND IS SHERMAN PARK.

AND I SAY THIS TO YOU NOW, SHERMAN PARK.

I HEAR YOU.

I'M NOT GOING TO INSULT YOUR INTELLIGENCE BY COMING AT YOU WITH QUICK AND SIMPLE ANSWERS TO YOUR COMPLEX QUESTIONS.

I'M NOT GOING TO SIT INSIDE MY HOME ONLY TO WATCH YOUR STORY UNFOLD ON TWITTER, THE NEWS OR FACEBOOK.

I AM GOING TO WALK WITH YOU IN THIS, AND I AM GOING TO SERVE YOU WHILE YOU STRUGGLE.

>> POWERFUL WORDS, BOTH OF YOU.

AND IN FACT ALL THREE OF YOU MENTIONED PROMINENTLY IN YOUR WRITING THAT YOU LIVE IN SHERMAN PARK AND YOU WRITE IT WITH SOME DEGREE OF, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE CAUTIOUS PRIDE IS THE WAY TO PUT IT.

I'M CURIOUS TO HEAR FROM EACH OF YOU.

THERE ARE OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS OUT THERE THAT YOU COULD LIVE IN, WHETHER IT'S IN THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE OR A SUBURB.

WHAT KEEPS YOU IN SHERMAN PARK?

WHY IS THIS THE PLACE THAT YOU CALL HOME AND THAT YOU SEE AS WORTH SAVING?

>> I GUESS I'LL START.

I MEAN, I LIVE JUST OUTSIDE SHERMAN PARK, BUT I'M ROUGHLY A THREE-MINUTE DRIVE FROM THE BP GAS STATION THAT WAS TORCHED.

I'VE LIVED IN THE AREA FOR 40 YEARS AND I WAS EDUCATED IN THAT AREA.

I WENT TO SAMUEL CLEMENS ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, JACKIE ROBINSON MIDDLE SCHOOL CLOSE TO THE POLICE STATION.

I LIVE THERE BECAUSE IT'S A VERY DIVERSE PLACE.

IT MAY BE ONE OF THE DIVERSE PLACES IN THE STATE.

YOU HAVE A LARGE JEWISH POPULATION.

YOU HAVE A HMONG POPULATION, PEOPLE WHO ARE MIDDLE CLASS, LOWER MIDDLE CLASS.

WE ALL MANAGE TO GET ALONG AND TRY TO MAKE IT.

THE REASON WHY I STAY THERE IS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, PROXIMITY.

I LOVE THE PLACE.

I LOVE MY NEIGHBORS.

AND IT'S A MELTING POT OF WHAT THIS COMMUNITY SHOULD LOOK LIKE.

>> LAURA MARSHALL?

>> WELL, I WAS NOT BORN OR RAISED IN MILWAUKEE.

WE CHOSE TO MOVE INTO SHERMAN PARK ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO BECAUSE WE HAD HEARD ABOUT THE DIVERSITY AND WE HAD HEARD ABOUT THE COMMUNITY THAT WAS THERE.

WE KNEW THAT IF WE MOVED THERE, THAT WE'D VERY QUICKLY BE ABLE TO KNOW OUR NEIGHBORS AND KNOW THEM WELL AND THAT HAS OFTEN ITSELF TRUE.

WE BOUGHT OUR FIRST HOME ON 46TH AND CENTER ABOUT SIX YEARS AGO, AND WE LIVED THERE FOR SOME TIME, AND MOVED AROUND THE CORNER AND DECIDED TO CONTINUE TO STAY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE THE NEIGHBORS HAVE BEEN SO WONDERFUL FOR US AND TO US.

>> AND REGGIE.

>> MY WIFE AND I PURCHASED OUR HOME THERE 13 YEARS AGO, AND AS WE WERE SEARCHING FOR A PLACE TO PURCHASE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS HIGH ON OUR LIST WAS WEúúúú WANTED TO LIVE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD@@@@@@@@@ THAT WAS DIVERSE AND ALSO THAT HAD A LOT OF HOMEOWNERS IN IT.

AND SO AS WE WERE TRAVELING AROUND TO DIFFERENT PLACES, WHEN@@@@ WE WERE LOOKING AT THIS PARTICULAR HOUSE, WE ACTUALLY HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH SOME OF THE NEIGHBORS AND WE REALLY WERE VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

@ AND DURING THE COURSE OF THESE 13 YEARS WE DEVELOPED CLOSE RELATIONSHIPS WITH OUR NEIGHBORS.

AND IT'S JUST A GREAT PLACE TO LIVE BECAUSE WE TEND TO THINK OF THE CENTRAL PART OF MILWAUKEE AS A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE DON'T GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHER, BUT PEOPLE GET ALONG WITH EACH OTHER EXTREMELY WELL AND I DON'T SEE US EVER DECIDING TO LEAVE THAT COMMUNITY.

>> IT'S SO INTERESTING BECAUSE THE THREE OF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IT AS THIS REALLY KIND OF IDYLLIC PLACE IN A LOT OF WAYS.

I THINK LAURA, THE URBAN MAYBERRY, YOU CALL IT.

REGGIE, YOU WERE OUT OF TOWN WHEN THE TROUBLES OF SATURDAY NIGHT UNFOLDED.

I WAS AS WELL.

AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE THE SAME FEELING THAT I GET WHEN I BOTH SEE IT IN PERSON AND EXPERIENCE WHAT LIFE IN MILWAUKEE AND SHERMAN PARK IN PARTICULAR -- AND I DON'T LIVE IN SHERMAN PARK, BUT I KNOW SHERMAN PARK, WHETHER YOU HAVE THE SAME FEELING I GET, WHICH IS IT FEELS KIND OF LIKE AN OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE TO SEE IT PORTRAYED IN SUCH A DIFFERENT WAY IN THE NATIONAL MEDIA.

FIRST P OF ALL, DO OF ALL, DO YOU GET THAT ALSO AND WHAT'S AT STAKE IN THE NARRATIVE SHIFTING IN TERMS OF PEOPLE'S PERSPECTIVE OF THIS PLACE?

>> WELL, FOR ME CALLING IT AN OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE WOULD SEEM TO SAY THAT WE DIDN'T SEE PROBLEMS ARISING, AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE CASE.

I MEAN, I'VE BEEN THERE FOR 40 YEARS AND I'VE SEEN HOW THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS CHANGED, I'VE SEEN HOW MY BLOCK HAS CHANGED.

EVEN THOUGH I LOVE THE AREA, IT'S A LOT OF NEGATIVES THAT ARE COMING ALONG WITH IT.

THE MANUFACTURING JOBS HAVE LEFT.

THERE IS NOT AS MANY HOMEOWNERS.

I HEAR SIRENS ALMOST ON A NIGHTLY BASIS.

SO I'M NOTICING THE CHANGES AND I'VE BEEN SPEAKING TO PEOPLE IN POWER TO TRY TO QUELL THESE ISSUES.

SO IT'S NOT SO MUCH AN OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE.

IT WAS LIKE A SIMMER THAT I ALWAYS FELT WAS THERE AND I JUST KNEW THAT IT WOULD JUST TAKE SOMETHING TO PUSH IT OVER THE TOP.

AND I WROTE ABOUT THAT IN THE COLUMN RIGHT AFTER FERGUSON HAPPENED.

I SAID THAT MILWAUKEE IS RIGHT ON THE CUSP OF SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPENING HERE.

>> IT'S REFLECTED IN BOTH OF YOUR IMPRESSIONS AS WELL?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, WHEN WE FIRST MOVED TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT SUMMER THERE WAS AN INCIDENT.

SOME KIDS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD ACTUALLY BROKE INTO MY GARAGE AND STOLE SOME TOOLS.

AND SO WHEN MY NEIGHBOR SAW IT, SHE CALLED THE POLICE AND THE POLICE CAME AND ASKED ME WHAT THEY WANTED ME TO DO.

AND I SAID I DON'T REALLY WANT TO PRESS CHARGES AGAINST THESE LITTLE KIDS.

WHAT I WANT TO DO IS TALK TO THEIR PARENTS AND THEN MAKE A DEAL WITH THEIR PARENTS.

SO THE DEAL WE MADE WAS I WAS BUILDING A FENCE IN THE BACKYARD AT THE TIME.

I SAID AS LONG AS THEY COME AND HELP ME BUILD THIS FENCE, WE'LL BE GOOD.

AND SO EARLY THAT SATURDAY MORNING AT 6:00 I WAS OUT THERE AND 15 MINUTES LATER THESE KIDS WALKED UP AND THEY WERE HELPING ME DO THE FENCE.

AND EVER SINCE THEN THESE KIDS AND THEIR FRIENDS HAVE KIND OF GRAVITATED TO MY HOME.

IT'S A PLACE THAT THEY COME TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH ME, ASK ADVICE, YOU KNOW, CUT MY LAWN, DO MY SNOW, ANY TYPE OF WORK THAT I DO.

SO I THINK THAT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY TO REALLY BUILD RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE YOUNG PEOPLE, TO HAVE CONVERSATION WITH THEM.

TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO DO THAT.

>> SO I WANT TO JUMP IN.

THERE ARE NEIGHBORHOODS IN MILWAUKEE THAT ARE FACING EVEN WORSE CHALLENGES THAT SHERMAN PARK, AREAS OF MORE CONCENTRATED POVERTY, AREAS OF HIGHER CRIME, AREAS THAT REALLY ARE BESET BY A LOT MORE THAN CERTIFICATE MAN PARK-- SHERMAN PARK HAS.WHY IS SHERMAN PARK AT THE CENTER OF THIS?

>> WE'RE VERY HYPER SEGREGATED.

THEN AGAIN, YOU COULD GO ON ONE BLOCK AND IT MAY BE A BLOCK THAT'S PERFECT.

EVERY PERSON IS A HOMEOWNER ON THAT BLOCK.

THE YARDS LOOK FANTASTIC, NO GARBAGE.

TWO BLOCKS OVER, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE LIKE, WHAT HAPPENED HERE?

AND YOU COULD HAVE ALL OF THAT IN A SMALL SPACE.

AND THAT'S KIND OF HOW SHERMAN PARK IS.

YOU COULD HAVE BLOCKS WHERE IT'S PERFECT AND THEN YOU COULD HAVE TWO OR THREE BLOCKS WHERE YOU HAVE PROBLEMS.

OR YOU MAY HAVE JUST ONE HOME ON THE BLOCK THAT CAUSES A LOT OF THE POLICE ACTIVITY.

AND SO I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO THINK ABOUT IT LIKE THAT.

I'M JUST TRYING TO PAINT A PICTURE OF WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

>> LAURA MARSHALL, YOU CLOSE YOUR PIECE -- IN FACT I THINK A RECURRENT THEME IN YOUR PIECE IS THIS IDEA OF WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN TO GO FORWARD AND, REGGIE, YOU WRITE ABOUT IT AS WELL, THE LITTLE THINGS THAT HAVE TO HAPPEN, THE IDEA OF STAYING INVOLVED.

HOW DO YOU SEE -- MOW DO EACH HOW DO EACH OF YOU SEE YOUR OWN ROLE IN KEEPING THINGS FROM CONTINUING THEIR DOWNWARD SPIRAL?

>> I GUESS FOR ME, IT WAS A REALLY SAD THING TO FOLLOW THE TWITTER FEED ON MILWAUKEE OR SHERMAN PARK, ESPECIALLY SUNDAY MORNING INTO MONDAY.

THRRN SOTHERE WERE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO LIVED OUTSIDE THE CITY AND IT FELT LIKE ALL OF THEIR SUSPICIONS WERE CONFIRMED ABOUT THE CITY OR ABOUT VARIOUS NEIGHBORHOODS OR ABOUT SHERMAN PARK IN PARTICULAR.

AND I THINK THAT FOR ME I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR MYSELF.

I THINK MY ROLE AS A WHITE PERSON IN A PRIMARILY AFRICAN-AMERICAN NEIGHBORHOOD, TO JUST BE THAT STORYTELLER AND TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY WHITE PEOPLE, ABOUT WHAT IT ACTUALLY MEANS TO LIVE IN A COMMUNITY WHERE YOU'RE THE MINORITY AND TO UNDERSTAND THINGS AND HEAR THE STORIES BEFORE YOU PAINT A BROAD BRUSH OF JUDGMENT OR YOUR OPINION OR WHAT YOU THINK SHOULD HAPPEN.

I THINK THAT WE NEED TO LISTEN TO THE STORIES AND TO THE VOICES THERE.

AND SOMETIMES THOSE AREN'T VOICES THAT WE AS A SOCIETY TYPICALLY TAKE SERIOUSLY.

>> REGGIE JACKSON, YOU WRITE ABOUT THIS IDEA THAT MAYBE FINALLY PEOPLE'S VOICES ARE GOING TO BE HEARD ABOUT THE FRUSTRATIONS THEY FEEL.

DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ALSO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY AT THIS JURVEG THIEWR TO-- JUNCTURE TOHAVE YOUR VOICE HEARD AS WELL?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I'VE BEEN WORKING ON THE PROJECT RELATED TO THE HISTORY OF THE SEGREGATION IN MILWAUKEE AND I WAS PART OF A PROGRAM TALKING ABOUT THAT JUST LAST WEEK.

AND SO I WANT PEOPLE TO KIND OF UNDERSTAND NOT JUST RESIDENTIAL SEGREGATION, BUT WHAT IT FORCES TO HAPPEN IN THAT COMMUNITY.

I THINK ALSO IN ADDITION TO THAT I WANT PEOPLE TO GET THE POSITIVE STORIES FROM THAT COMMUNITY.

FIRST THING I DID THAT SECOND MORNING WAS TO GO OUT IMMEDIATELY, LIKE 7:00 IN THE MORNING, JUST TO KIND OF SURVEY THE DAMAGE, BUT ALSO TO TALK TO PEOPLE THAT WERE OUT THERE.

AND I POSTED SEVERAL THINGS TO SOCIAL MEDIA, IMAGES OF PEOPLE CLEANING UP IN THE AREAS WHERE THE FIRES TOOK PLACE.

I WENT BACK AND I'VE BEEN BACK EVERY DAY SINCE THIS HAS HAPPENED CONVERSING WITH PEOPLE AND SHARING STORIES WITH PEOPLE THAT HAVE COME TOGETHER.

THERE WAS A HUGE GROUP THAT MET IN THIS GRASSY AREA NORTH OF THE STATION IN A HUGE PRAYER CIRCLE.

RIGHT AFTER THEY WERE THERE, I SAW A GROUP OF YOUNG PEOPLE MARCHING DOWN THE STREET TO THE SAME AVENUE, GROUP OF PROBABLY 150 YOUNG PEOPLE MARCHING PEACEFULLY WITH SIGNS.

THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF STORIES THE NATIONAL MEDIA REALLY COVERED, WAS THAT THE COMMUNITY HAS COME TOGETHER, THAT PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE CITY HAVE COME INTO THE COMMUNITY, REACH OUT TO TRY TO HELP.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE NEED.

>> LAURA MARSHALL AND REGGIE JACKSON BOTH LIVE IN SHERMAN PARK.

WE'LL HAVE LINKS TO THEIR RECENT WRITING ABOUT THE UNREST IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> JAMES CAUSEY OF MPTV'S BLACK NOUVEAU IS GOING TO STICK WITH US AFTER THE BREAK AND WE'LL WELCOME TWO DIFFERENT EE GUESTS AS OUR SPECIAL CONTINUES.

>> MORE OF LAKE EFFECT NOW ON 87.9, WUWM IN A SPECIAL CO-PRODUCTION, SHERMAN PARK; THE AFTERAFTERMATH.

JAMES CAUSEY IS WITH US AGAIN AND WE'RE JOINED BY TWO PEOPLE MOO HAVE ALSOWHO HAVEALSO BEEN ON THE GROUND IN SHERMAN PARK.

LATOYA DENNIS IS A NEWS PRODUCER AND REPORTER IN THE WUWM NEWSROOM AND HAS BEEN COVERING THE STORY NOT JUST IN THE PAST WEEK, BUT OVER AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME.

JARRETT ENGLISH IS A POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY ASSOCIATE FOR THE ACLU OF WISCONSIN.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> IS THIS A BLACK AND WHITE ISSUE?

THE NATIONAL MEDIA PORTRAYS THIS AS LARGELY AFRICAN-AMERICANS ON ONE SIDE OF THE DIVIDE AND WHITES ON THE OTHER AND AT THE SAME TIME BEFORE THE BREAK WE HEARD ABOUT WHAT A DIVERSE COMMUNITY SHERMAN PARK IS.

WHY DO YOU THINK SOME IN THE MEDIA HAVE LATCHED ON TO THIS NARRATIVE?

>> WELL, IT'S AN EASY NARRATIVE AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK THE COUNTRY HAS BEEN STRUGGLING WITH FOR A WHILE.

I DON'T CURRENTLY LIVE IN SHERMAN PARK, BUT I GREW UP THERE AND I DO LOTS AND LOTS OF WORK THERE.

YOU KNOW, IN THIS STATE I THINK IT IS A BLACK AND WHITE ISSUE.

THERE'S ALSO A VERY LARGE PEOPLE OF COLOR ISSUE IN GENERAL, BUT MOST OF THE ANGST AND DISTRUST ARE BETWEEN FOLKS WHO ARE BLACK AND WHITE, NOT JUST THE INDIVIDUAL LEVEL SO MUCH, BUT CERTAINLY THE INSTITUTIONAL LEVEL.

>> LATOYA, WE HEARD ABOUT THESE SCENES WHERE A DIVERSE GROUP OF PEOPLE COMES TOGETHER FOR PRAYER CIRCLE OR VIGIL OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

ARE YOU SEEING THOSE?

ARE THEY THE EXCEPTION?

>> I DON'T THINK THEY ARE THE EXCEPTION BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT SHERMAN PARK IS.

IT'S LARGELY AFRICAN-AMERICAN, BUT THERE'S A LARGE CONTINGENT THERE OF LOTS OF OTHER PEOPLE AS WELL.

SO WHEN YOU GET A NEIGHBORHOOD, PROBABLY ONE OF MILWAUKEE'S VERY FEW DIVERSE NEIGHBORHOODS, NO, IT'S NOT THE EXCEPTION.

THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE.

>> ONE THING THAT I FOUND WHEN I WENT OUT THERE IS THAT THERE APPEARS TO BE TENSION BETWEEN THE YOUNG AND THE OLDER PEOPLE THERE.

ARE YOU SEEING THAT?

OR WHAT ARE THE YOUNG PEOPLE TELLING YOU?

>> OH, I'M DEFINITELY SEEING THAT.

PART OF MY JOB IS TO BE IN THE COMMUNITY, AND NOT EVEN TWO WEEKS AGO WE WERE IN A ROOM WITH LOTS OF "COMMUNITY LEADERS" AND WHAT THE CITY LIKES TO CALL GRASSTOPS AND WE HAD A VERY FRANK DISCUSSION AT THE BADER FOUNDATION WITH THE MAYOR AND SOME OF HIS POLICE COMMANDERS JUST BASICALLY TELLING THEM THEY ARE COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED TO THE YOUTH OF THIS CITY.

AND I GOT A LOT OF PUSHBACK FROM THAT FROM ALL THOSE SECTORS, FROM THE MAYOR'S OFFICE, MAYOR HIMSELF AND SOME OF THOSE COMMANDERS, AND YET HERE WE ARE.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE MEDIA AND YOU GUYS MENTIONED THAT FIRST SEGMENT, THE NATIONAL MEDIA, I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT'S AS MUCH OF THE PROBLEM AS THE LOCAL MEDIA AND EXCLUDING YOU GUYS -- AND I'M NOT JUST SAYING THAT BECAUSE I'M HERE.

I THINK THE PUBLIC RADIO AND TELEVISION, THEY JUST DO AN INCREDIBLE JOB.

BUT SOME OF THE THE FOR-PROFIT MEDIA, NOT SO MUCH.

AND FOR WHATEVER REASON, THEY -- YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHY THERE'S THAT HUGE DISCONNECT IN THE SENSE OF WHAT PEOPLE THINK SHERMAN PARK IS AND WHAT IT ACTUALLY IS.

SHERMAN PARK EVEN TO THIS DAY IS VERY DIVERSE, VERY -- IN ECONOMICS AND DIVERSITY NEIGHBORHOOD, AND YOU WOULD NEVER EVEN SEE THAT ON LOCAL MEDIA.

IT'S ALL 30 KIDS THROWING ROCKS AT THE COPS, NOT THE 500 WHO WERE THERE TWO HOURS BEFORE MARCHING AROUND PEACEFULLY.

>> LET ME JUMP IN JUST FOR A SECOND BECAUSE THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE CITY ARE LARGELY ABSENT FROM THE CITY'S POWER STRUCTURE.

SO WHAT'S THE WAY TO INCLUDE YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE DIRECTION THAT THE CITY MOVES FORWARD?

>> WELL, FIRST, IN MY OPINION, THEY HAVE TO STOP -- NOT STOP.

I GUESS ENGAGE MORE DIRECTLY, YOUNG PEOPLE, LIKE LITERALLY JUST GO AND TALK TO PEOPLE.

I THINK -- >> AND WHEN YOU SAY THEY, WHO DO YOU MEAN?

>> SO WHEN I SAY THEY, I MEAN THE MAYOR'S OFFICE, I MEAN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

I MEAN THEY SHOULD NOT BE -- WHEN THEY GO AND TALK TO YOUTH, POLICE IN PARTICULAR SHOULD NOT BE IN AN ENFORCEMENT KIND OF STRUCTURE.

SHOULD BE HUMAN BEING TO HUMAN BEING.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OUT OF MOST OF THE DEPARTMENTS HAS THE RESOURCES WHERE THEY CAN LITERALLY HAVE A COP STATIONED IN AN AREA WHO KNOWS EVERYBODY IN THAT AREA.

BUT THEY DON'T DO THAT.

THEY DO, AS CHIEF FLYNN SAYS, DATA-CENTRIC POLICING.

IRONICALLY, SHERMAN PARK IS RIGHT SMACK DAB IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DISTRICT, WHICH BY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT'S OWN REPORT, A COMMISSION FROM WUM, HAS THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF USE OF FORCE.

>> ENGAGEMENT IS ONE THING, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE 70% OF OUR YOUTH, UNEMPLOYED, YOU HAVE TO CREATE JOBS.

HOW DO YOU DO THAT?

>> LET ME KNOW IF I'M TALKING TOO MUCH, BUT WE HAVE -- AS I SAID BEFORE, WE HAVE A SYSTEM THAT'S STRUCTURAL I'DIZED AND DISENFRANCHISEMENT.

BEFORE I LEFT FOR SCHOOL IN 2001, SHERMAN PARK, LOTS OF LAWRSLAWYER RSLAWYERS AND PROFESSIONALS AND THINGS, BUT MOST OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE FACTORY WORKERS.

A.M.A.O.

SMITH AT ONE POINT EMPLOYED 20,000 PEOPLE.

GETTING PEOPLE BACK TO WORK IS SOMETHING THAT HAS TO HAPPEN FROM THE TOP.

WE COULD SPEND A TENTH OF WHAT WE'RE SPENDING DOWNTOWN AND PROBABLY CHANGE NOT JUST SHERMAN PARK, BUT P THE ENTIRE CENTRAL CITY.

AND THERE'S JUST NO -- AND I DON'T WANT TO SAY NO, BUT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH WILL IN DOING THAT.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE, THEY GET DISTRACTED.

>> AT LA TOYA I THINK IF WE WERE TO LOOK AT THE BODY OF YOUR WORK, IT PROBABLY DIDN'T SURPRISE YOU THAT SOMETHING EVENTUALLY HAPPENED TO SET THIS OFF IN CERTIFICATE MAN PARK.

I-- SHERMAN PARK.

I MEAN, THIS IS NOT A STORY THAT YOU WERE UNAWARE OF UNTIL THAT FATEFUL SATURDAY NIGHT.

A LOT IS STILL UNKNOWN ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED DURING THE POLICE CHASE THAT ENDED WITH SYLVILLE SMITH'S DEATH.

AS THINGS MOVE ON, HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THIS DEATH AND THIS OFFICER WHO WAS A PART OF IT, HOW MUCH IS THAT GOING TO MEAN DOWN THE ROAD VERSUS ALL THESE OTHER THINGS THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN SIMMERING?

>> I THINK IT'S MORE ABOUT THE BIGGER PICTURE.

I THINK THE DEATH OF THIS YOUNG MAN WAS A CATALYST, RIGHT?

IT'S WHAT CAUSED THINGS TO TAKE OFF.

PEOPLE ARE ALREADY FOCUSING ON THE ISSUES AT HAND.

WHEN I SPEAK WITH PEOPLE, I HEAR A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY THIS IS ABOUT JOBS, THIS IS ABOUT EDUCATION, THIS IS ABOUT US NOT FEELING AS THOUGH WE'RE GETTING A FAIR SHAKE AT THINGS, US FEELING AS THOUGH THINGS ARE NOT EQUAL.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE FOCUSING ON ALREADY.

AND I THINK YOU ALSO HAVE A CONTINGENT OF PEOPLE, THOUGH, EVEN SOME WHO LIVE IN SHERMAN PARK WHO ARE SAYING THIS IS ABOUT NONE OF THOSE THINGS, RIGHT?

THIS IS ABOUT KIDS AND OTHER PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO GO OUT AND BE RECKLESS.

AND THERE ARE PEOPLE THERE WHO HAVE THOSE FEELINGS.

>> CAN THEY BOTH BE RIGHT MAYBE?

>> THEY BOTH COULD BE, YOU KNOW?

I HAVE NO IDEA PERSONALLY, YOU KNOW, WHY THINGS TOOK OFF IN THE MANNER IN WHICH THEY DID.

I KNOW WHAT THE CATALYST WAS, RIGHT?

I DON'T KNOW WHAT -- BUT, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY TOOK OFF IN THE WAY IN WHICH THEY DID.

I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF THEORIES THAT ARE OUT THERE AND I THINK THE TRUTH COULD POSSIBLY LIE IN BETWEEN THERE.

>> HOW DO WE STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING AGAIN?

>> I THINK YOU HAVE TO ENGAGE.

YOU HAVE TO ENGAGE PEOPLE.

YOU HAVE TO GO OUT AND YOU HAVE TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT WHAT IT IS THAT THEY NEED, WHAT'S GOING ON IN THEIR LIVES AND HOW YOU CAN BETTER SERVICE THEM, RIGHT?

SO WHETHER IT'S WITH EDUCATION AND JOBS OR WHETHER IT'S WITH SOMETHING MORE POSITIVE TO GO DO, BUT IT HAS TO BE THINGS THAT THEY'RE INTERESTED IN, FOR SURE.

>> JARRETT ENGLISH, ARE WE LOOKING AT A LOT OF FALSE DICHOTOMIES HERE THAT EITHER WAS FRUSTRATION OR IT WAS KIDS WANTING TO CAUSE TROUBLE OR THE OTHER ONE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE EITHER 100% BEHIND THE POLICE OR YOU'RE 100% BEHIND THE PROTESTORS?

ARE WE LOOKING AT SORT OF ARTIFICIAL GULFS MAYBE?

>> I THINK WE ARE.

I THINK IN THE CASE OF THE POLICE, I VERY MUCH BELIEVE THAT THE POLICE AND POLITICIANS, THEY NEED TO COME MUCH MORE FROM THE PUBLIC SERVICE STANDPOINT AS OPPOSED TO SAYING WE'RE HERE TO GET YOU UNDER CONTROL STANDPOINT.

I THINK WE DO A DISSERVICE.

WE'RE BASICALLY RESETTING THE TIMER ON A BOMB IF EVERYBODY WHO WATCHES ALL THESE THINGS AND ALL THIS -- YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON JUST SAYS, OKAY, THAT'S A COUPLE KNUCKLEHEAD KIDS, YOU KNOW, FIGHTING THE COPS.

THAT'S NONSENSE.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN IN THE MAKING FOR THE LAST 25 YEARS.

>> AND IT SEEMS LIKE WHEN A GAS STATION'S ON FIRE OR PEOPLE ARE SHOUTING IS THE WRONG TIME TO BE THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, AM I COMING AT THIS FROM A PUBLIC SERVICE OR CONTROLLING -- >> THAT'S EXACTLY WHEN YOU SHOULD DO THAT BECAUSE WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING IN SHERMAN PARK AT LEAST SINCE -- AND NOT JUST SHERMAN PARK, BUT ALL ACROSS THE CITY.

AND PEOPLE ALWAYS LIKE TO SAY THE NORTH SIDE, BUT TECHNICALLY THAT'S THE WEST SIDE OF THE CITY.

THAT'S JUST A TERM, JUST LIKE THRUGTHUG GETS THROWN AROUND LIKE THE N WORD WAS YEARS AGO.

IT WAS SOMETHING THAT COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED IF THERE HAD BEEN REAL ENGAGEMENT FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND THE POLICE THAT'S NOT IN A MANNER OF TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO DO, BUT ASKING THEM WHAT TO DO TO MAKE THEIR COMMUNITY BETTER.

>> JARRETT ENGLISH WORKS WITH THE ACLU OF WISCONSIN.

LATOYA DENNIS IS A NEWS PRODUCER FOR WUWM.

JAMES CAUSEY, THANKS TO ALL OF YOU.

THAT WRAPS UP OUR SPECIAL CO-PRODUCTION, SHERMAN PARK: THE AFTERMATH.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR WATCHING.

FOR THOSE OF YOU LISTENING TO US ON 89.7, WUWM, KEEP LISTENING.

THE LAKE EFFECT CONTINUES RIGHT AFTER THIS.

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