Craig, thanks so much for coming in to talk to me.

I want to know first what the personal impact has been on you and your family in light of the president's decision to issue these pardons.

After everything happened initially, we were, of course, a mess, all of us.

And we kind of got ourselves back together again over the last four years.

And this just ripped everything wide open again.

And so how could somebody who served their country admirably go on to serve the police force admirably, The Capitol police be cut down in the prime of his life?

And there's no there's been no repercussions for it.

And once Trump decided to free the insurrection, this or should I say domestic terrorists, I will use that term.

They were.

What's that mean?

It means we have no rule of law.

We have no there's no repercussions for doing anything wrong.

And all these people are happy and cheering about it.

Yeah.

I wonder what it's been like for you to absorb just the national discourse over this to folks who have supported it and those, of course, who have spoken out against it.

Monday, I tuned out the news almost entirely.

I answered the call for one reporter who we've dealt with in the past, and that's how I found out about the pardons.

So you didn't know until the.

No, I said I tuned it all out.

And of course, you wanted a comment.

So I gave one, which is probably published out there somewhere, because I think it was quite brusque.

And the it's just it's horrible reaction is all of us are depressed.

We're angered where we can't figure out why in a supposedly decent country that a madman could be elected with millions of his fans saying that everything he's doing is right.

Do you feel like this decision has dishonored Brian's service and his sacrifice?

I think his service and sacrifice of that stands on its own.

However, what he's done, basically what Trump has done, has basically made it in vain.

Everything he stood for, basically.

Why?

Why did he give his life for the country?

Because the pursuit of justice in your mind?

There is no.

There is no justice in this country anymore.

You feel that broadly, even beyond what's happened with your family, with your brother, Brian?

Well, if things at the top are so bad that you can't keep a 34 count convicted felon out of office with all kinds of other charges, including sexual abuse and, you know, you name it, he's done it, but he's never been nailed to the wall for it because the courts favor him lately because of his own hand-picked judges like Cannon.

So how can you have any respect for a system that does that?

What do you think?

Or how have you perceived the message that this sends to other law enforcement, the sacrifices that they make every day?

President Trump Republicans at large often tout the back the blue motto.

In your mind, does it send a different message?

There were a lot of law enforcement people who are pro-Trump.

I personally haven't figured it out, but that's how things work.

That being said, I think a lot of them have to realize, okay, they're supporting somebody who claims they're pro law, but how many officers have died under his watch due to his actions?

Whether it's my brother's case of being pepper sprayed and having horrible reactions to it and strokes and passing away or some others who took their own lives not long after the event.

Because, you know, for them, I'm sure they felt betrayed.

I can't speak for them, obviously, but how do you devote your career to law enforcement and then have basically a giant slap in the face from your own country by not doing anything about it?

Have you heard from members of the community, from other law enforcement, both since Brian's passing and also this week in light of the pardon decision?

I stay in regular contact with a few people at the United States Capitol Police.

The Capitol Police is an interesting organization.

On the record, they cannot do anything even remotely political.

It's just the nature of the beast.

Yeah.

Off the record, I can see some that are no longer with the force.

Harry Dunn, Officer Aquilina Gunnell or two people I stay in touch with fairly regularly.

They are absolutely disgusted at everything that has happened.

Both of them suffered greatly after during the insurrection.

Emotionally and physically.

Yes and no.

Harry Dunn Definitely.

Emotionally.

I.

Officer Gunnell, he was beaten within an inch of his life.

He almost met the same fate as my brother.

How do you go on to heal now?

That's a good question.

I'm just going to keep doing what I do for now.

I've definitely gotten a whole lot more politically active, and depending upon how things go, I may very well consider retiring offshore.

What do you want the message to be to public officials, to lawmakers, to those in the community about how this decision has both affected your life, your family personally, and and also the nation and the conversations that are being had right now?

Unfortunately, the country is so divided that roughly half the country doesn't care.

They honestly could care less that my brother died in defense of the Capitol that day.

Other people have died for similar reasons and they just simply don't care.

The other roughly half has been wonderful.

They reach out.

They're supportive.

Occasionally I'll get emails or have people contact me that I've never met before that offer their condolences, offer their, you know, everything they can to help support me.

The other side, I've had people threaten me.

I've had verbal abuse, mostly online threats, all kinds of not nice stuff.

So, of.

Course, is that for speaking out against the Trump administration?

Yes.

And of course, that's forwarded to the proper people and that's taken care of.

But it's sad that I'm exercising my right to free speech against a mad man and I'm targeted.

Are you concerned then, now, though?

Definitely with the pardons, that means people can do whatever they want.

Are you concerned for your safety?

Yes, I am safety.

That has to be extremely difficult in light of the morning that you're also going through the grieving that you're going through now.

Every time I step out of my house, I have to make sure that there's no cars around that I'm not familiar with.

I have to you know, it's it's some people may say it's on the paranoid end.

It's like, no, it's not.

You know, sooner or later, I have a feeling something bad may happen.

I hope it doesn't.

Of course we hope that as well.

How would you like to see Brian's legacy honored now?

And moving forward?

Well, he's a role model for what people should do, especially if they're in law enforcement.

Do the right thing no matter what.

Be nice to people.

Would remember that they continue to do the right thing.

If he was one of the people that if you were arrested, that's the person you want to be arrested by and do everything.

Exactly by the book.

No ifs, ands or buts.

No.

Some of the other things you hear about that make the news.

Unfortunately, he said he's lived his entire life this story, I don't know if it's gotten out or not.

Years and years and years ago, he used to work for a school system in New Jersey as a custodian, and before he figured out what he wanted to do and he got called up for National Guard service at one point for one of the things going on in the Middle East, served over there, came back, and the administration of that district decided to clawback his pay while he was away on National Guard duty.

It's law.

I don't know.

I can't state the exact numbers for it.

But if you work for a state, local, state or local government, New Jersey, you get X number of days of pay in addition to whatever your guard pay is.

And as a custodian, he wasn't making much money.

He fought it, won the appeal that he won again.

And he did it all himself.

He had some input from a few other people, but he was the one doing all the footwork on it.

He was much, much, much younger at the time.

And he did it because that's the right thing to do, not because he got screwed out of a little bit of money.

It sounds like I know he's about ten years younger, he's ten.

He's my youngest brother.

But it sounds like you have really looked up to him.

He used to look up to me when we were much younger.

He was kind of he followed me around.

He kind of like hanging out with my friends and even some of the stupid stuff we did.

Thankfully, there's no cell phones back back then.

Not once I took pictures anyway, and we didn't do anything horrible.

But he he like doing that.

And he looked up to us.

He tried to, you know, imitating some of what we did.

And over time it's like, okay, he's a national hero.

We joined the National Guard.

He served overseas.

He's he did amazing things.

So, yeah, I started looking up to him.

Craig Sicknick, thank you so much for coming in and sharing your story with us.

Thank you for having me.