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- Welcome to "Pathway to Success."

This is John Harmon, Founder, President, and CEO of the African-American Chamber of Commerce of New Jersey.

You know, when you think about financial services, when you think about trailblazing in the investment-banking industry, when you think about profound excellence on Wall Street, you think no other than Christopher Williams, Chairman and equity owner of Shank Williams Cisneros & Co., LLC.

He's also Principal of Siebert Williams Shank & Co., LLC.

Christopher Williams, welcome to "Pathway to Success."

- Thank you very much, John.

Appreciate it.

- Well, we're delighted to have you here, and we'll start off with just a brief overview from you, you know, what you do.

- Well, what do I do day-to-day, you know, I get that question a lot, from my wife especially.

[both chuckle] But, no, I spend a great deal of time-- As a firm, what we do is we work with a broad range of municipalities, corporations, institutional investors to help meet their financing needs, their investment needs, their advisory needs in terms of management of their financial operation.

You know, my specific background is working with corporations.

So I'll work with corporations that are in the process of issuing bonds, issuing debt so that they can finance the growth of their organization.

I work with other companies who are issuing equities, stock so that they-- maybe they're going public, if they were already a private company.

In other cases, I'll work with companies that are looking to buy or sell other companies and provide them with advice on the markets.

What's the appropriate valuation of a company that they're looking to buy or sell?

So there are a broad range of activities, and most of mine are focused on either the corporate market or the institutional-investor market.

- I think that's a great start, and we'll come back and do a deeper dive.

But now, a little foundation-- you know, where are you from, family?

- Well, I grew up in a small town in western Connecticut called New Milford, Connecticut, and it's not one of the towns that most people know.

But my father worked for the utility in Connecticut, in western Connecticut, called Connecticut Light & Power.

- Mm-hmm.

- My mother worked primarily in the home and also in other areas as a domestic in many cases.

So very much a homemaker, but both parents worked hard.

Didn't have a lot of education, but they certainly had the motivation to create a solid life for my older brother, my younger sister, and myself.

So that was kind of the start.

I decided to go to Howard University for college.

I knew I wanted to major in architecture, and that was certainly a specialty that a lot of universities didn't necessarily have.

And I knew I had developed an interest, number one, in drawing but also in building, as a kid.

I'd build not only tree houses but houses on the ground, and I remember my parents were impressed that I had built a little shed.

It had the windows in.

It had the roof that actually--the doors worked.

Now, after coming out of college, I worked in New Haven, Connecticut, for an architectural firm that was founded by two Howard alums who had graduated from their school of architecture.

And then, subsequently, they went to Yale and graduated from Yale School of Architecture, received their masters.

That was Wendell Harp and George Bumbray were the partners.

They both have subsequently deceased, but they gave me my first view of entrepreneurship.

I then decided to leave architecture and go to get my MBA.

So I went to Dartmouth for my MBA.

- Okay.

- And there my intent initially was to focus on going into real-estate development.

But in the mid '80s, as I was graduating, we found that there were so many firms on Wall Street that were recruiting heavily, and so I ended up joining... Well, actually, deciding to pursue investment banking.

Went to J.P. Morgan as a summer intern and then Lehman Brothers when I came out.

So it wasn't a plan that had been set in stone many years earlier for me to end up on Wall Street.

It was a function of me taking advantage of certain opportunities as they arose and seeing what was of interest to me.

And so I ended up deciding to pursue Wall Street, and it's been an exciting ride ever since.

- But let's talk a little bit about Lehman.

- While at Lehman, my responsibilities were, first, covered a lot of utilities, and, in fact, my first two years, I was working on the municipal-utility area.

And so spent time what we call running the numbers and then ended up moving over to the capital-market side.

- Hmm.

- So, in the capital-market side, I worked closely with corporations.

And so, once I started a new area within Lehman that focused on these derivatives and debt financings, I left after several years with several colleagues, to start our own venture.

The thought was we said, gee, this is a new creative area.

We identified certain areas that would enable us to pursue a new line, a new approach to serving those clients as a standalone company, instead of being part of a large company.

And that's exactly what we did.

And it's interesting.

Relationships are so important, and our very first opportunity that we really received to do a large transaction as a standalone company was we did a financing for Sallie Mae.

- Mm.

- And I had a great relationship with the treasury team and finance team, and when I decided to leave Lehman, I had a conversation with a senior finance person, a gentleman named Mitchell Johnson, and I asked him, I said, gee, we'd like to still keep doing business with you, and he said, if you can bring the same quality of deals to me on your own that you brought to me when you were with Lehman, I'll give the word to all of my colleagues that we're to cut through the red tape and keep doing business with you.

- Perceptions-- how did you deal with those perceptions?

You spoke to it, but I'd like for you to speak to it now, from giving advice to some upstarts out there that have the wherewithal, have the experience, but they may be a little-- you know, not be able to break through.

- Yeah.

That's good.

Before I left Lehman, I spent months, and I'd say probably close to six months-- every single night, after I came home, I spent hours developing and thinking through a business plan.

The first thing I had to do was think through, what's the business model that's going to make sense?

'Cause I couldn't replicate everything that Lehman did.

I had to pick and choose where by being a small firm am I not at a competitive disadvantage?

And, ideally, where being a small firm can I create a specific advantage for myself?

And that's something that we did.

Then relationships.

Well, you know what?

Throughout your whole career, before you decide to go out on your own, hopefully you have built up relationships and a reputation for quality, even if not in the specific area you'll pursue as an entrepreneur, but in your professional life, your day-to-day interactions with others.

Are you trustworthy?

Are you hardworking?

Are you responsive and proactive?

Are you someone that people can connect with?

And that's important, because I cannot tell you the number of times, as I'm calling on certain people in the industry that I didn't know, and they'll say, huh, well, you know what?

I took the meeting because I called my friend over at Lehman Brothers and asked about you.

And had those conversations been negative, had someone said something disparaging about me, there would have been no meeting, game over.

So never forget how important the relationships, not just with the clients, the people who you say, well, I'm gonna be nice to them 'cause I want them to give me business, but also be a real respectful person with everyone you interact with.

- Mm-hmm.

- And that's so important, because that helps build your network.

- Well, I think those are so many great points.

Let's talk about your various relationships, you know, chairman, equity owner of Shank Williams Cisneros & Co. and Principal of Siebert Williams Shank & Co., LLC.

Can you kind of separate the two and then bring them back together, so we can get an understanding of how they coexist together?

- Yeah.

I think, for simplicity's sake... Shank Williams Cisneros is a holding company, and Siebert Williams Shank is the business that interfaces with clients day-to-day.

That is the investment bank, the broker dealer.

That's the engine that we use to generate the revenue, that does the business, and executes the business with our clients.

And, in fact, there's one unique little operation that we set up that I think is pretty relevant in the context of this conversation.

It's called the Clear Vision Impact Fund, but it is a fund that we raised from a lot of our corporate relationships.

So we do a lot of different work-- whatever it takes to be supportive.

It's not a standard cookie-cutter approach.

It's not like a bank.

Our job as an impact fund is to help these companies succeed and grow.

- I think that is an amazing initiative, and I'm sure that many will try to figure out how to get connected.

And we can probably close on that, but let's talk about... the standing of Siebert Williams Shank, in terms of the industry, its footprint amongst Black firms that are like yours, organization, mission, and vision.

Can we kind of unpack that a little bit?

- Mm-hmm.

Well, Siebert Williams Shank as a not only majority woman-owned firm but a majority minority-owned firm is a very unique position in the industry.

So that's first, just in terms of the ownership structure.

In addition, we perform, relative to other emerging investment banks or emerging minority-owned broker dealers, we consistently are at the top, one of the first, number one or number two, depending on the date period you use or the product that you're focused on.

We pride ourselves and have as a goal of consistently being at the absolute top or among the top firms in each area.

- Now, this is a great conversation.

We're going to take a break here.

We'll be back in a moment, here on "Pathway to Success."

announcer: The African American Chamber of Commerce of New Jersey is your pathway to success.

We encourage you to visit our website at www.aaccnj.com, or call us at 609-571-1620.

We are your strategic partner for success.

- Welcome back to the "Pathway to Success."

This is John Harmon, Founder, President, and CEO of the African American Chamber of Commerce of New Jersey, and our guest today is Christopher Williams, Chairman, Shank William Cisneros & Co., LLC.

And he has done so much in terms of representing Black businesses, Black professionals in the investment-banking area.

Talk about the significance of core values to your organization's success.

- So our core values are, one, absolutely be prepared and know your business.

Know every aspect of your business.

But not just know how to get from point A to point B, but advise your clients using creativity, being proactive, so thinking two steps ahead.

Also, we think through, make sure that we as a firm are willing to roll up our sleeves and do whatever's necessary to help our clients, again, succeed-- our relationships, our partners in the business, to help them succeed.

And always, always operate with integrity.

If in fact you make a mistake or don't perform and meet your client's expectations, face it.

Own it.

So one example of what it means to operate with integrity, and I can give you an example of-- there was a trade done that the client and our trader maybe had a miscommunication.

In any case, there was a loss, and the client said, so how do you want to handle this?

And I just made it clear, I said, we'll eat that loss.

It was a miscommunication.

I could have argued, well, part of it's your problem, part of it's our problem.

I said, we'll eat that loss.

They appreciated that, but what they turned around and did so much more business with us to more than make up for that because they felt they were dealing with-- and we had demonstrated--they were dealing with a partner who viewed their interests as paramount, and that's what they wanted.

They said, you're the type of partner we want to have.

- That was a phenomenal story, but notwithstanding your success and your standing amongst your industry peers, there's still challenges for Black firms like yours and others to get their equitable stake of opportunity, is it not?

- Absolutely.

In the context of Wall Street, in the context of the global banking industry, we are still considered very small.

When you're dealing with companies that have hundreds of billions of dollars on their balance sheet, that have tens of thousands of employees all over the world and operate in multiple markets globally, we're still relatively small and under-resourced, by comparison to the largest banks in the world.

So we have to compete.

We have to be very creative about our approach.

- But I think you can share a little bit more on the benefits of a smaller firm that has the expertise.

Your nimbleness--can you speak to that a little bit as another value proposition?

- Absolutely.

So the first thing I'll say is that treating your colleagues in a manner that let them know how valuable they are is very important, and that's something that a large firm has a great deal of difficulty doing, just by virtue of the sheer numbers.

That's one.

A big firm-- the CEO of a large firm just can't be engaged in working directly on a deal.

They can show up for a pitch.

They aren't going to be there in the war room thinking through, how are we going to get this done?

- In other words, you're in the sausage making, and I think that's phenomenal.

Let's pivot-- recent bank failures.

Can you speak to that, what that means?

- You know, on one hand, Silicon Valley Bank-- I think the spotlight was shined on the fact that...

In a short period of time, deposits, which are a major source of funding for any bank-- deposits can leave a bank.

I mean, you had tens of billions, I think 40-plus billion of deposits were pulled out of Silicon Valley Bank in under one hour.

Well, that was never even considered by regulators, by bank management, or by anyone in the industry.

So that was concerning.

The other thing that also affected the other banks, including a bank like First Republic, which is a high-quality bank that had been run in what everyone perceived as a very prudent manner.

But it was hurt by the fact that they, like so many other banks, had investments in high-quality securities, but they happened to have been purchased when interest rates were much lower, two years ago.

And as rates rise, the value of those securities decline.

So then... Now, you couple that with the ability for depositors to withdraw their deposits very quickly, which means you suddenly have to sell, reduce, if your assets go down or what you owe in terms of your liabilities and your deposits-- when those go down, you reduce your assets.

In order to pay off the liabilities, you have to sell the securities you own.

Well, when those securities you own are worth less now than they were when you bought them simply because interest rates rose, that means you have losses.

And, suddenly, the deposits leave, the banks fail quickly, and the depositors, the general public, everyone becomes nervous about the stability of the banking industry.

It's tricky.

It's not over, but I think that the good news is, there is a watchful eye on the part of the Fed, on the part of the regulators, and I think all the depositors and anyone who has exposure to these banks' investors are all being very cautious.

- I thank you for that thorough explanation.

What does the next five years look like for your organization?

- The next five years will be a period of growth for us.

We're doing the largest advisory deal we've ever been involved in right now.

We have relationships with organizations that might need some access to additional funding.

We don't have the size of the balance sheet internally to provide the funding that some of our clients may need.

But by leveraging the financial resources of our partner firm, Apollo Global, we can then come up with creative solutions that meet the specific needs of clients that are unique and different, other than what they would normally get from a traditional bank relationship or from a traditional capital-markets relationship.

So I think having partnerships with a variety of firms can really lead to a very successful outcome across the board, and I'm excited about the way over the next few years we'll be able to continue to grow our relationships as a result of these partnerships that we've formed.

- You know, I tell you-- this will be my last question before we close it out.

It's like, just sitting here marinating, absorbing all this great information, and really appreciating your experience, your perspective, your professionalism, and industry knowledge.

I think it comes across in a way that is going to continue to dissipate some of the perceptions of Black firms in this space.

But throughout our conversation today, you've given a number of examples of success on larger deals, working with large organization, and we, too, at the African American Chamber of Commerce of New Jersey have grown due to our relationships and success with our members like you and others.

Can you just speak to, you know, the significance of working with the African-American Chamber of Commerce of New Jersey?

- Yes.

Well, certainly, it's amazing how many corporations and municipalities are all present in New Jersey, and the activities in which they engage are so significant.

So we look at the breadth of our business-- the municipal side of our business and the corporate side of our business.

And the African-American Chamber has been so important in facilitating introductions and the development of relationships with many of the municipalities and the corporations that are here in New Jersey that are so important to our continued success.

And that's something that-- you know, getting in the door is often the most difficult step when someone doesn't know you.

So having this platform, having this relationship with the Chamber is critical.

And that's something that we've really benefited from and look forward to continuing to develop the relationship so that we can do more of that in the future, 'cause I think it is truly a win-win.

Thank you.

- Well, Christopher Williams, I just want to thank you for... just taking the time to hang out with us today.

- Thank you.

I really enjoyed being here.

Thank you so much.

- And until the next time... on your "Pathway to Success," this is John Harmon, Founder, President, and CEO of the African-American Chamber of Commerce of New Jersey.

Thank you for tuning in today.

The message for the day is... how do we interact and engage to the various sectors of opportunity?

But today we're going to focus on the public sector.

Our ability to present to the Murphy Administration and the various departments or agencies about our members and their value proposition is critically important.

Also, that same message to local municipalities-- you know, the mayors, the council representatives, school boards, to county government, county executives, commissioners, the significance of the 1.2 million Blacks in New Jersey and their systemic challenges-- unemployment, poverty, low net worth compared to whites.

We recently launched the Training and Development Institute to talk about workforce and job readiness.

Through that same initiative, connecting ex-offenders, working with New Jersey's Department of Corrections, to entrepreneurship, programming, and job readiness.

Through our mobile academy, we're going across the state of New Jersey-- financial literacy, home ownership, interviews, résumé writing, preparing people of the Black community to compete in the 21st century.

We seek to connect Black businesses with all those different opportunities, all to put Black people in a better place from a social/economic standing in our great state.

We do it every day, and we do it for you.

Give us an opportunity to contribute to your success, connecting you to one of these sectors in our state of New Jersey.

Aaccnj.com or 609-571-1620 is the best way to connect-- connect you to connect us to each other.

announcer: Support for this program was provided by...

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey, Berkeley College, education drives opportunity.

Be inspired.