>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in 1999 when Congress established a delegation through the Open World Program, bringing young leaders from Estonia, Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Poland, Romania, Ukraine and Uzbekistan to the United States for ten day visits.

This has been happening for 26 years, but for Ukrainians who are part of these delegations now, it certainly might feel different.

More desperate.

Here in Rochester, a delegation from Ukraine has been visiting, coordinated by the Ukrainian American Community Foundation.

You're going to meet members of that delegation this hour, and you might have seen recently in Alaska, President Donald Trump literally rolled out a red carpet for Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Their meeting was billed as a way to find an end to the war, to the Russian siege on Ukraine that has lasted more than three and a half years.

But the meeting did not include Ukrainian leadership.

President Zelenskyy was not invited.

That summit ended with a short and bizarre news conference and no agreement for Russia to stop its bombardment.

In the past several days, dozens of Russian missiles have struck Ukrainian cities.

Several people have been killed, more than 100 injured, nearly 50 Ukrainian trains have been taken offline after Russian attacks on transportation infrastructure.

Meanwhile, Poland and Denmark are strengthening their own defenses.

Denmark's leadership says that Russia will be a threat for years to come.

Poland is reacting to Russian drones that breached airspace and signaled a possible escalation with NATO.

It is tense times and this hour I it's going to be a little bit different here.

We have a full studio fuller than we've probably ever had.

And it's going it's going to include some translation you'll hear for some of our guests from Ukraine, some of the Ukrainian guests will speak English, and they are all welcome here.

We want to hear their stories.

This is a chance for them to tell you.

Tell our audience what they have been going through and what they want us to know.

So to our audience, thanks for kind of hanging in there on what will be a little bit of a different kind of an hour, but I think it will be really, really valuable.

Let me introduce our guests now and helping coordinate this is Dr.

Randy Stone from the University of Rochester, the center for Polish and Central European Studies.

Thank you for putting this all, helping put us all together, Randy.

>> Thanks for having us, Evan.

>> And let me welcome.

I will read all the names of our guests here.

Again.

I mentioned it's a full studio.

Hello to Oksana Redkva.

hello as well to Svitlana Romanenko Olha Stepanchenko Lillia Matvilchuk Yullia Voitekhova Natalia Vinogradova all with us.

Hello, everyone.

>> Hello.

Hello, everybody.

>> Thank you for being here.

and you know, you're going to hear translation.

Our friend Peter is here translating in the room for some of the guests who will be using this service.

And so thank you, Peter, for being here as well.

and, doctor Stone, I'm going to start with you before I really give the our to our, our, our guests from Ukraine here and just ask you to tell us a little bit about how this came together in the first place.

>> So we were thrilled when, the Ukrainian American Community Foundation organized this tomorrow, Dennis Cinco is is the moving force behind this, and she reached out to the Skalny Center.

so we have a really impressive delegation of young women leaders from various cities across western and southern Ukraine who are engaged in veteran outreach.

rehabilitating providing psychological services, providing training, in entrepreneurship.

Many of these have established new businesses.

many of these are people who have been wounded.

So they're they're wearing prostheses, and they are now trying to start their lives over again.

And of course, they're all psychological victims of of the war.

They're they have incredibly inspiring stories.

some of the people who are fitted with prostheses want to go right back to the front.

some of them in wheelchairs, want to go back and fight.

and I think you'll hear from one of our guests whose husband perished in the war.

>> Remarkable stories.

I'll just mention some of their professional titles that kind of highlight some of what doctor Stone is telling us.

Oksana is deputy director of educational and practical training at Ternopil Professional College Lilia's public relations and media specialist at the Veterans Center Poltava.

Svetlana is deputy director for academic affairs at the center for Vocational and Technical Education in Odessa.

going around the table here, Olga's director of the Rivne Vocational College of Information Technology Natalia is the only one.

And you speak English, so I can't I don't I don't have your professional title.

Do you want to.

>> Tell us I'm a facilitator here, and I'm a teacher of English.

in Ukraine.

>> Thank you for that.

And Yulia is director of the center for Entrepreneurship Support, the Lviv City Council.

So remarkable professional backgrounds and yet all sort of tied together by the experience of the last three and a half years, you know, for all the conversations you and you and I have had, Randy, how much how, how valuable is it for you to move beyond sort of the academic approach and to understand the personal cost of war like this?

>> I find these these one world visits to be tremendously valuable.

And they, they bring people that I would never otherwise encounter.

they mentioned that they didn't know each other until they met in Warsaw.

so you imagine you have to kind of smuggle yourself,.

Through the war zone.

and then they, they gather in Warsaw and they meet for the first time, and they discover that they're doing many of the same sorts of things.

but personally, for me, of course, it's always a revelation to to, to understand what, this war is like.

It's really an all of society engagement.

there aren't really any bystanders here.

Everyone is engaged in the effort.

and the Ukrainian population is remarkably united in this.

>> So we're going to go around the table and let me start with Lillia Matvilchuk, because doctor Stone mentioned that Lilia has suffered a profound loss, as many Ukrainians have.

And I want to start by saying I am terribly sorry for your loss.

Can you tell our our audience a little bit about yourself, your family situation?

and about your husband and his decision to to serve and volunteer?

>> I agree hello, everybody.

Thank you for this opportunity to talk to you and share my story.

I am from the city of Poltava.

My husband volunteered to go to this war back in 2014.

For Ukraine.

some kind of war against Moscow state has lasted for centuries.

And this is another iteration of this struggle which is very heavy for us.

But we hope this will be our last fight against Russia, and we finally will overcome their aggression.

>> Lillia Matvilchuk.

A student of university.

>> So my husband Lillia Matvilchuk went to war while he was still a college student at the University.

He operated a grenade launcher.

In 2014, he went back, came back to Poltava for health reasons.

And he became a political activist.

>> In.

Poltava.

>> He put a lot of effort to strengthen the sister city connection between Poltava and Irondequoit.

He did a lot of good things for the city.

The city of Poltava.

He did training programs for young people and was preparing us all for the next phase of the war.

He was a member of city council for two convocations.

>> Of.

>> When Russia's big invasion started, he left his civil civilian life and went back to war again.

He died.

>> He was.

>> He was killed in 2023, in action.

And at that time, he operated a reconnaissance drone.

Was in reconnaissance unit.

And when he died, I was left with one year old daughter in my hands.

>> The Ukraine.

>> And I continue to work with veterans to keep the memory.

of him and to continue helping his his fellow warriors.

>> first of all, Peter, thank you for the translation.

And maybe for Peter, what we'll do is when Peter's translating, that's not on this microphone, maybe Randy and Peterson switch sites, or you can slide the chair in so you don't have.

I'm worried about your knees this hour, Peter.

He's incredible.

He's incredible.

Lilya, I'm so sorry.

And I want to ask you.

Your husband started service in 2014.

Back in 2014, and when he went to serve again after the Russian invasion of 2022, did you understand that to be simply part of his duty as a Ukrainian?

Did you not want him to do it?

Did you?

Did you understand the need for it?

>> yeah.

Yeah.

>> When I was marrying my husband and knew what he was like, and I knew he will never stand aside.

Since 2014, he always had his military backpack ready in our apartment.

>> I can tell you confidently, if it hadn't been for my baby daughter, I would have joined him and went to war together.

But the greatest value for us is to save the lives of our children.

Because it's our future.

That's what we are fighting for.

We are paying a tremendous price.

A terrible price.

In part, my family and myself.

Because it's very hard for me to keep explaining to my daughter day in and day out.

Why she can only see her dad in a granite stone or in photos and videos.

Why?

He is looking at her from heaven and she cannot see him there.

>> Is.

I.

>> Still don't know how to answer her questions.

Why?

It's always me who gets her home from the nursery school.

But I know for sure that if we find the time back.

If my husband knew what was going to happen, he would go to war.

Nevertheless.

Because we must defend our country and we must put an end to this for the sake of the future of our children.

>> So one more question then, for Lilya.

I think about children like yours who have lost a parent often a father, and I think about how angry they must grow up to feel or could grow up to feel.

I think about how angry you must be.

Even if there is peace, even if the war ends, can there be true peace and understanding between these countries in the future?

>> Yeah.

>> This is really a very difficult question.

It goes without saying that Ukraine will never forget all the things, all the pain, all the abuse.

That the Russian people have caused to us and continues doing that in part, the Russian government.

But no doubt.

If we keep the hope.

That not everyone over there is like that.

And there will be a day when they will change their mind.

And will realize.

That they need to rise up against their rulers and change their country.

But because what they are doing now.

They must bear responsibility for that as.

>> Well.

>> Everyone who is living in that country now.

Because if people want something to change, they must take action.

Example is our revolution of dignity.

But if people don't do anything, that means what they have is normal for them.

>> Thank you for sharing your story.

Thank you for being here.

we're.

If you're just joining us on Connections, we are talking to a panel of Ukrainians who are here as part of a delegation.

these kind of delegations have been coming as doctor Stone educated me since 1999 as part of an international program established by the United States Congress.

It's not just Ukraine, it's it's a number of countries.

And this group here has agreed to come in and sit down with us and tell their stories.

and some, like Lilia using the services of our friend Peter, who is translating, and some will be speaking English.

But for if you're watching on YouTube, it's a full studio.

We want them to be able to tell their story at length here.

So we're grateful for this opportunity.

We're going to give Peter a chance to rest his legs for just a moment.

I'm going to go across the table to Yullia Voitekhova.

And Yulia is director of the center for Entrepreneurship Support of the Lviv City Council.

develop Ukraine's first municipal program supporting veteran entrepreneurs and their families.

as you come to the United States, what's the most important thing that you want Americans to understand about what is happening in your country?

>> Oh.

>> It's really interesting question.

actually, as for me, I want to tell that we didn't start this war.

It's really important, and we didn't want this war, and this war is not like the epic war.

it's about terror.

It's really hard war.

it's war by drones and.

By drones.

which killed not soldier.

This drones killed civilian people.

Children, a lot of children die.

And we didn't start this war.

But everybody of us, every who who hear and who work in Ukraine still still work in Ukraine.

we can stop this war, but we can do everything.

What we can in our competition to help another people.

>> What kind of actual ending to this war do you think is possible?

And is needed?

I ask that, Yulia, because in this country, we are watching our government try to negotiate.

Usually without your government, usually with Putin's government directly.

And there is talk about giving up the Donbas, giving up Crimea.

making some sort of a deal about never joining NATO.

What is acceptable to you?

>> We can't give our territory because it's our territory.

It's our cities, it's our like Crimea, Donbas, Luhansk and other places.

It's our cities.

That's why we are in this war.

Actually, because nobody can come to your home and say goodbye.

I will kill you and I will live here today because I want.

That's about this war.

Actually.

>> Does anybody in this room disagree with that?

Does anybody in this room think we should be willing to sign a deal that gives Russia part of Ukrainian territory just to make this end?

Does anybody know?

Nobody.

>> Nobody.

>> Do you know?

Do you have neighbors?

Do you have friends who feel that way?

No no.

>> No no.

>> okay.

That's something doctor Stone that we've talked about is understanding when we are trying to negotiate on behalf of a country.

You hear the president of the United States saying they're going to have to give up something.

This has to end.

They don't have the leverage.

And then you meet the actual people who have been devastated by this war.

And it's hard to understand the the disposition that you can just give up a chunk of your country just because someone overran it.

how do you square some of what you're hearing in this room versus what you see in our government's negotiations?

>> Well, you know, Ukrainian politics were famously divided and very complex up until the point that Putin decided to invade Ukraine.

>> And that brought.

>> Ukrainians together, together like nothing ever had.

Right.

The the Ukrainian people is is very much united as some people know in America who know a little bit about Ukraine, understand that in some parts of the country people tend to speak more Russian than Ukrainian.

Right?

And in the western part of the country it's overwhelmingly Ukrainian that was spoken.

But most Ukrainians, many, many Ukrainians are, are bilingual in Russian and Ukrainian.

And many of those who used to speak Russian as a first language have stopped doing that at home.

and there this is a a sign of a transformation, a cultural in, in, in entity identity, cultural identification, understanding.

so I think the, the Ukrainian people are remarkably united about this.

The Russian people are not particularly united about this war.

They're not enthusiastic about it.

They're doing it because they're being swept along by a dictatorship and they're repressed when they when they try to protest.

And so you have one country that is really united and one that is really unsure what it's doing.

and, and if this, if this continues long enough, this means the Ukrainians have to win.

The question, of course, is whether you know, the the organization of the Ukrainian military breaks before the determination of the Ukrainian people bring them ultimately to, to victory.

>> Yulia, one more question for you.

Three and a half years into this siege.

War is an interesting word for a one way attack.

is it a siege?

Is it a I guess it's a war.

It's a war on Ukraine.

>> I'd say it's a Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Right.

And and continuing occupation of certain parts of the country.

>> So three and a half years later, do most Ukrainians know someone who has been injured or killed at this point?

Is it pretty widespread to know someone who's been injured or killed in battle?

>> Yes, I know a lot of person every day in Arenac Street, it's the main square of our city in the center.

we are.

We bury three, four, five soldiers every day in every city of our country.

And we have in the 9:00 in the morning, we have one minute of remember when a car driving, when people move and in the 9:00 in the morning, everything stopped in all of cities.

Everybody stop.

>> let me turn to Natalia Vinogradova.

and I want to just make sure I understand as well from you.

What you're on these travels to the United States.

Do you think Americans are as engaged and understanding about what's going on as you expected?

>> No, no, I'd say not enough or actually, I've monitored the mass media.

There isn't enough information about what's happening in the country, in Ukraine.

>> Are you surprised?

>> not really.

Most probably.

This is the policy of the current government, which is sad.

And upsetting.

And we are actually here to be the voices of Ukrainians and to tell people our stories, the stories of our neighbors, the stories of our cities.

Just like they say, piers, to piers.

>> It was maybe 5 or 6 months ago that President Zelenskyy, his first of two trips, his first trip this year to the White House, in which the president and the vice president essentially shouted at him, a lot of Americans felt it was embarrassing.

What did you think when you saw that?

>> it boosted the support of our president of Zelenskyy.

We just are, you know it makes me wonder how come Americans ended up electing the president that can behave like that.

This is not a good example of diplomacy.

It just disrespectful at the level or of just when people talk like person to person, well, nobody is allowed to talk like that to anybody.

It's disrespectful.

And in the first place Mr.

President of the United States showed some disrespect to himself.

This is disrespectful to behave like that, like just decent people don't do this.

This is our understanding.

This is our culture.

>> And so during your trip to the United States, you see less understanding, less interest than maybe you think we there should be here.

What do you want Americans to understand?

>> I'd like to tell to the American people that we're not sitting and waiting for somebody to do our job.

No, we are doing everything possible.

Everything that is in our power.

Like when the houses are bombed or destroyed.

We like immediately, two hours later we get together, we cleanse the debris, we raise money.

If there's no financing, let's say if a family loses a house to the war.

So we raise the money, we rebuild.

So we are not.

We are not a lost cause.

We are doing everything possible.

Let's say I'm working for an I.T.

company and our I.T.

guys, they work till 6:00 in the evening, and then they they have learned to make drones and they're making drones.

Some of them, they have lost sold their flats and houses.

and invested into drone production.

So they, they say we will make money later when we win.

well, now we have to to get the victory and to get our country back.

And I'd like to get back to the question about giving up the territories.

It's not about the territories.

It's about our people.

Ukrainians are living there.

Well, we are not abandoning them, because what do Russians do now?

they on the doors of the flats of the houses.

They leave a message like this flat is the possession of Russian Federation.

You have got five days to to move.

Well, so it's not about territories.

It's about our people.

And we cannot abandon them there.

And I'm not like, the story is like a soldier, a Russian soldier is coming up to a girl.

Like, I like your car.

I can buy it from you for $100.

And that is happening tomorrow.

So.

And those stories, they happen every day.

It's humiliation.

It's abuse.

Well, it cannot be happening in the 21st century.

And people should know that.

>> I think, Natalia, if I'm trying to, if I'm trying to represent the views of people, whether it's in government or maybe American citizens who want this war to stop and think that Ukraine should be willing to give up part of its territory.

I think people will say something like this you're not wrong.

That that is a devastating price to pay.

But anything that can be done to stop the missiles, the bombs, the killing of the children, of the people, we've got to it has to happen at some point, even if that means giving up part of your your territory.

I think.

I think that's what the argument is.

What would you say to that?

>> Well, with the country like Russia, you can't give in a, I don't know, a centimeter or you, you cannot follow the lead.

Well, I'd say that if someone is scared, they can flee the country.

Like, this is our choice to stay.

And we know that we can we can be killed.

And like my husband says, he's a veteran.

He spent two years in the front line.

I'm not leaving my country.

I'm not giving them anything.

I'm ready to die.

And I will be fighting for my country till my last breath.

And this is not happening.

So no.

No deal.

We need our country as it was before the war.

>> Remarkable.

You're hearing the voices of Ukrainian citizens who are visiting Rochester this week.

The delegation, is a part of a long standing international effort that's been happening for years.

These delegations come not just from Ukraine, but from a number of countries.

And it's a great honor to have them with us in studio this hour.

Thanks to Dr.

Randy Stone, the director of the center for Polish and Central European Studies at the University of Rochester.

And local foundations.

There's a lot of people who have helped put this together, and we're grateful we have to take a very short break.

One break about 30s, and we're going to come right back with our guests, and you're going to hear more of their stories and their perspectives.

Coming up in our second hour in the so-called Big Beautiful Bill, there are some significant changes to tax structure, what you might pay based on a child tax credit that you might be eligible for or standard deductions, or a senior bonus deduction, or Salt, or the AMT or more.

We're going to bring in the experts.

They'll answer our questions and yours next hour.

>> Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from ESL Rochester Fringe Festival presenting Cirque du fringe claws out a feline inspired circus cabaret with aerial artistry, comedy and acrobatics under the Spiegel tent nightly through the 20th.

Tickets at Rochester fringe.com.

>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Continuing our conversation with guests from Ukraine, I want to turn to Olha Stepanchenko, director of the Rivne Vocational College of Information Technology that focuses on integrating veterans into science, technology, engineering and mathematics careers, particularly in computer science and technology entrepreneurship.

I want to ask you what I've already asked some of your your colleagues what did you expect to find in the United States in terms of awareness and concern for the war?

What are you seeing and what do you want Americans to understand?

>> Again, I would like to go back to the question of action.

Excuse me.

She said deal meaning an agreement.

So what?

What you call a deal is, is is not acceptable if it's about giving away our land.

>> I was telling other people before that for us Ukrainians, World War II did not did not end.

In 1945.

It ended on April 14th, 1960.

That's when the Ukrainian Insurgent Army lost its final.

battle against Moscow.

invaders.

Our grandparents lost that fight, but now we and our children are fighting because Russia came back to invade us.

And conquer.

We.

It's not us who started the war.

They came back to fight us again.

So now we expect that the rest of the world would have an understanding.

And I have seen ordinary Americans to show that.

This war can be won only with the help of the rest of the world.

And the invader can be stopped.

And what really was most valuable?

I heard this from Americans of Russian origin.

The empire must fall apart.

And then the rest of the world can breathe.

calmly.

with relief.

>> So let me then ask you about another argument that I hear from people who I think mostly agree with you were.

But there's one point where they might disagree, and that sounds like this.

The moral cause of of preserving and protecting Ukraine is clear.

However, you cannot defeat Putin in a way that you describe simply because if he is cornered enough, he is very capable of using his nuclear arsenal.

If he didn't have those weapons, it would be a different story.

But he will not allow himself and his regime to lose in the end.

What do you think?

>> Well, you know what?

He wants to survive.

He wants to remain alive.

We have crossed every red line that.

>> Has been announced.

>> Our troops entered Russian territory near Kursk.

I don't know.

>> What else.

>> Needs to to be done to prove to the world that he's not going to.

>> Use nuclear weapons.

>> But he will keep making efforts to destroy us little by little until we totally disappear.

Vanish?

So the world needs to make the choice.

>> Either.

>> Allow.

Well, take some risk and allow this.

Or take some risk and put an end to this.

Or allow this big European nation to disappear.

>> Can I ask everyone in this room?

You hear olhar say, Putin has warned if you do A or B or C, we might use nuclear weapons.

And olhar is saying every time they don't use weapons, it is a bluff.

It is a scare tactic.

It is not legitimate.

And olhar says that is shows that Putin, at the end of the day, is about his own survival first, that he's not going to use these weapons because he knows what would happen if he uses these weapons, but he wants us to think he would use these weapons.

Does anyone in this room think that he would use nuclear weapons?

Nobody.

I'm.

>> I'm.

>> he may use it against Ukraine.

Only.

>> doctor Stone, what do you make of their responses on this?

Was one of the first things you and I talked about in February of 2022.

I think we talked about our children asking about nuclear war, which is I mean, you know, depending on when you grew up and if you hid under desks and you had drills in school, maybe the idea of nuclear war is fresh in your mind, or maybe it's far away.

We're going to talk about it tomorrow in this program.

More.

What do you hear in their response here?

>> That's right.

Well you know, when I first started explaining the concept of nuclear deterrence to my students at the University of Rochester in the mid 1990s, they got great big eyes and couldn't imagine that this was a something that one would seriously talk about.

This sounded like tales about the big Bad Wolf or something from the distant past.

and the older generation remembers that nuclear deterrence was a scary thing.

we were quite we took it quite seriously in the 1980s.

and I think that the policy of the Biden administration was very much structured around trying to avoid escalation to nuclear war.

Right.

The initial discussions, should there be a no fly zone over Ukraine?

Well, no, that would that would be too great an escalation.

should we respond in this way?

Should we should we provide these weapons or should we provide those weapons?

>> How how far should the range of the missiles be?

>> That's right.

providing F-16 fighters.

Right.

at each stage, the fear was, well, if we do that, that will cross a red line.

That will lead to, to nuclear escalation.

And I think always right, that, we've learned over time that Putin does not want to use nuclear escalation, that he has has backed down repeatedly, but.

>> He wants us to be frozen with the fear of it, doesn't he?

>> Absolutely.

And things change somewhat with the change of administration.

Right.

Because the the Trump administration does not have the rock solid commitment, to say the least to NATO that Biden had.

I think there was no question if Russia had invaded NATO countries during the Biden era the United States would have honored its commitments under article five of the NATO treaty.

>> And now there's a question.

>> Under Trump, there's definitely a question.

and so that means that Putin has an incentive to try to split the NATO allies off, deter them from using their resources to replace American resources and supporting Ukraine.

And he has been using repeated nuclear threats against them.

The European allies also are not inclined to to believe his his bluffs and so far the French and British have offered some guarantees to their allies and the NATO continues acting in a remarkably unified way in spite of the United States pulling out.

>> It's a separate conversation on where NATO goes next that I'd like you back here soon, for if you could.

>> Fair enough.

>> We should do that.

Is there anybody in this room who would accept the following deal?

Russia gets no territory, but Ukraine promises.

Not now or ever to join NATO.

No NATO membership.

That's the deal.

The war ends.

Would anybody take that deal?

No.

That's also a no.

let's talk to Oksana and Svetlana.

Oksana Redkva is deputy director of educational and practical training at Ternopil Professional College, combining educational leadership with directing a charitable foundation, supporting veterans.

Thank you for being here.

I will just give you the floor.

You can tell us what have you experienced in this country?

Has it surprised you?

And what do you want Americans to understand?

>> America.

Ukraine.

>> I was able to see with my own eyes that ordinary Americans truly and genuinely support the Ukrainian people.

When people ask you where you're from and you say Ukraine.

Immediately you hear words of very nice words of support.

And expressions of love and positive feelings about us, about Ukraine in general.

>> Americans.

>> So yes, I can see that.

American people feel very positively about Ukraine.

>> Some.

>> I'm talking of ordinary Americans whom I have been meeting.

>> Does that feel like it contrasts with what the presidential administration of this country is doing?

>> I think so.

in regard to the previous questions you were asking.

long ago, Winston Churchill is the one who said.

That any agreement.. Will be violated no matter what.

They took away Crimea, first.

>> Of.

>> Then they partly occupied the eastern provinces of Ukraine territory.

Now they are trying to grab more territories.

And most importantly, it's loss of human lives.

Lots of human lives.

>> how close are those losses to you?

We've been hearing from your colleagues that it's hard to meet anybody in your country who hasn't lost someone or known.

Someone who has been lost, or had someone whose life was shattered by this war.

Is that true for you?

>> I believe there's not a single family in Ukraine.

Which hasn't had such a loss.

Hasn't experienced.

There are families who lost more than one person.

Possibly a father and a son.

Possibly more than one son.

And then there are stories about a whole family being killed and just one survivor in the whole family.

Now, it's not only people in the military who get killed, but civilians as well.

>> The.

>> Because of the air attacks on the infrastructure attacks on schools of education.

As a as a in part in August 25th.

one of the buildings of my university was was damaged by such a strike.

>> this perspective, I really hope, is powerful for listeners and viewers.

If you're watching on YouTube, just understanding how widespread.

And I think that last point is very important.

It's not just military members who are suffering and dying.

I mean, you can see headlines every day, not always at the top of American news, that missile strikes are hitting libraries and homes and apartments every day.

I appreciate that perspective.

Svitlana Romanenko deputy director for academic affairs at the center for Vocational and Technical Education in Odessa in Odessa.

Yes.

>> The.

>> Director of the Professional Technical.

>> Yes.

Hello.

I am a deputy director of vocational school.

I would like to start with words of gratitude to the program named Open World.

in Washington that brought us all here.

It gives us an opportunity to make important learning.

I work at a vocational school that trains many working professionals.

>> To identify the program for veterans.

>> our students come from high school, but then we also have special programs for veterans to give them new job skills.

We prepare for the day when our victory comes.

Our people are strong.

Our nation is strong.

We have confidence that we will rebuild our country.

>> When me.

>> In my own uncle and his son are now fighting in the war, they are defending us.

I truly hope this war will come to an end soon.

And they will come return home.

>> The Ukraine, America to Europe.

>> So again, I want to say how important it is for us to be supported by the rest of the world, the United States and European countries.

>> And so I have one more question.

This hour.

This hour has gone very, very quickly.

And I want to ask Svetlana, you work with high school students when you work with teenagers, Ukrainian teenagers, do they have hope for their own future anymore?

Do they believe that the world will be a peaceful one for them and their adulthood at any point?

>> We certainly have great faith in the better future and our youngsters have those expectations.

And my school includes more than 800 students.

>> And.

Above.

>> When we were enrolling them, the majority of them have parents who are either at war or already gotten.

>> Killed.

>> So for these young people, this is very hard.

Of course, like any child, they they they hope they wait for peace to come.

>> But the.

and when.

>> We win, the war, we'll have a normal life again.

>> it's a. Niche.

>> Of the life.

And the studies of those students during the war is very hard because there are many air raid alarms during the night.

I live in Odessa.

That's not close to the war.

>> Zone.

It's not.

>> But in the course of this previous month, we've been constantly attacked by missiles and that's attack drones.

You have a sleepless night, and then in the morning, you have to go back to work.

To school, et cetera.

You have to work, and you have to feel that people need you.

>> Oh, may all of your cities be rebuilt in the future.

And as we get ready to close, I'll say to doctor Stone, I feel like the last three and a half years have been an education for a lot of Americans like me, in just Ukrainian geography, in the beauty of the cities.

Truly, the beauty of these cities.

I remember in the early days, really trying to understand.

So where is Lviv?

Where is trying to understand the map?

And then seeing the gorgeous universities and the streets and the centers and seeing what has happened.

And I can only you know, from so far away, I can't really relate to it.

But I do hope that this program helps more Americans see it.

I've got about 30s left.

Do you think these programs open more American eyes?

Do you think that actually happens?

>> I think this is invaluable.

I think the person to person contact is really the only way to get understanding of of what's happening in, in distant places.

I have, you know, memories of walking in the streets of Odessa and Kyiv long before these wars took place.

And I just imagine the beautiful buildings that I saw that are now in ruins are being rebuilt and so forth.

And it's it's it's heartbreaking.

>> It's not about territory.

It's about people.

And that's been one of the themes of the hour.

You heard Yulia and others say it, and I want to thank all of our guests.

Thank you to all of you.

May you have safe travels, and I hope that you do feel the solidarity of of people around the world.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you everyone.

Dr.

Randy Stone is the director of the center for Polish and Central European Studies at the University of Rochester.

Do come back soon.

We have a lot to talk about.

>> Pleasure to be with you, Evan.

>> Thank you very much.

We do have more Connections coming up in just a moment.

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