♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> HELLO.

WELCOME TO COVID-19 ANSWERS AND IN SIGHT.

AM SHAWN TURNER PROFESSOR AT MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY.

ON THIS WEEK'S PROGRAM, WE TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT IT REALLY MEANS TO START GETTING BACK TO BUSINESS HERE IN MICHIGAN.

GOVERNOR DEGREES HAPP WHITMER AUTHORIZE THE LIMITED REOPENING OF SOME ESTABLISHMENTS THE STAY AT HOME COULD BE LIFTED IN A FEW WEEKS.

THAT WILL HAVE IMPACT ON BUSINESSES BUT SO WILL THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S LATEST STIMULUS FUNDING.

THE ORIGINAL $2 TRILLION CARES ACT INCLUDED $350 BILLION FOR SMALL BUSINESS IN THE FORM OF THE PAYCHECK PROTECTION PROGRAM.

BUT THOSE FUNDS RAN OUT QUICKLY AND NOW, ANOTHER $310 BILLION IN A SECOND STIMULUS PACKAGE IS BEING DISTRIBUTED.

THESE NEW FUNDS AND THE EASING OF SOME RESTRICTIONS ON CERTAIN BUSINESSES ARE RAISING MANY QUESTIONS FOR BUSINESS OWNERS.

WE HAVE A COUPLE OF GUESTS HERE TODAY TO HELP US SORT IT OUT.

WANT TO WELCOME BREYIAN CALLIE BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

THE PRESIDENT OF THE SMALL BUS NEGOTIATION ASSOCIATION OF MICHIGAN AND HE IS THE GOVERNOR.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU, SHAWN.

GREAT TO BE AC WITH THIS YOU WEEK.

>> AND ALSO JOINING US TODAY IS CHARLES BALLARD.

PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AT MICHIGAN MY STATE UNIVERSITY HE HAS DONE EXTENSIVE RESEARCH ON MICHIGAN'S ECONOMY AND CAN HELP US UNDER STAN HOW WE'RE SEEING TODAY WILL LIKELY AFFECT US IN THE FUTURE.

CHARLIE WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> OK.

I WANT TO START WITH YOU.

AS I MENTIONED IN THE OPENING.

THE GOVERNOR EXTENDED THE STAY-AT-HOME ORDER BUT IN THAT EXTENSION, SHE ALLOWED SOME BUSINESSES TO RESUME OPERATING CAN YOU TAKE A MINUTE TO TALK BUS TO WHAT THE BUSINESSES ARE AND MORE IMPORTANTLY WHAT ARE THINGS THOSE BUSINESSES ARE GOING TO BE REQUIRED TO DO IN ORDER TO OPERATE.

>> YEAH.

SHAWN.

THERE WAS AN UPDATE TO THE STAY-AT-HOME ORDER WHICH CREATED A NEW SECTION WHICH IS CALLED RESUMED BUSINESS ACTIVITIES AND IN THAT SECTION, THERE WERE A FEW AREAS FOR EXAMPLE, GREEN HOUSES, OUTDOOR PROFESSIONS LIKE, LANDSCAPING, NURSERIES, THE SORT OF THINGS YOU WOULD DO IN THE SPRINGTIME, QUITE A DEMAND FOR THAT.

ON TOP OF THAT.

ALLIANCE FOR A WIDER ARRAY OF ON-LINE ORDERS AND RETAIL ACTIVITY THAT HAPPENS WITH CURBSIDE PICKUP.

SO A LOT OF THAT BUSINESS WAS PREVIOUSLY ALL GOING THROUGH THE GIANT ON-LINE RETAILERS AND IN THIS CHANGE MAKES IT MORE POSSIBLE FOR SMALLER RETAILERRERS ASSUMING THEY CAN ACCEPT ORDERS REMOTELY AND OFFER CURBSIDE PICKUP OR DELIVERY TO RESUME OPERATIONS AS WELL.

SO IT IS A LUM MITTED RESTART AND RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBER OF COMPANIES, BUT, REALLY THE FIRST, THE FIRST STEP TOWARD REOPENING WE HAVE SEEN SO FAR.

FOR THOSE BUSINESSES ALLOWED TO REOPEN.

WAS THERE ANY SPECIFIC GUIDANCE FOR HOW THEY SHOULD OPERATE WITH REGARD TO COVID-19 AND MAKING SURE THEY ARE STAYING SAFE AND BEING HEALTH?

I.

>> THERE WERE NEW REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE BEING IMPOSED BOTH ON THE CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND BUSINESSES THAT ONES THAT HAD BEEN OPERATING ALL ALONG AND THEN, ALSO, ON THE NEW ONES.

SO PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT TO SOMETHING THAT BUSINESS OWNERS ARE BECOMING MUCH MORE FAMILIAR WITH.

THIS IS, THIS IS FOR EXAMPLE.

THINGS LIKE FACE COVERINGS AND THEN, GLOVES IN SOME CASE, AND SANITATION SCHEDULES, AND THAT ARE MUCH MORE REGULAR AND REQUEEN THAN WHAT WOULD HAVE NORMALLY HAPPENED IN THE PAST.

ALONG WITH CONTROLS IN HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN BE INSIDE OF AN AREA OF ONE TIME AND THEN, SO FURTHER GUIDANCE FURTHER REGULATORY FRAMEWORK PUT AROUND HOW PEOPLE ENTER INTO STORES, HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN BE IN A STORE ACCORDING TO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE.

THEN, ALSO, HOW STANDING IN LINE WORKS TO ENTER THE STORE AND WHEN YOU ARE IN THE STORE.

SO THERE IS EXPECTATION TO MAINTAIN SOCIAL DISTANCING AT THE SAME TIME, AS OPENING UP AND SO BECAUSE THE STAY AT ORDER TAKES STEPS FORWARD IN TERMS OF BEING REDUCED THAT DON'T MEAN THAT SOCIAL DISTANCING CAN BE% RELAXED, THAT SIX-FOOT, SPACE EXPECT TO BE MAINTAINED.

>> RIGHT.

RIGHT.

SO SO OPENING BUT SOME RESTRICTIONS.

CHARLIE, I WANT TO COME OVER TO YOU.

EVEN AFTER WE ARE FULLY REOPENED.

YOU KNOW, IF PATRONS CHANGE BEHAVIOR FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME.

IN OTHER WORDS IF PEOPLE MAKE DECISION TO AVOID GOING TO A RESTAURANT AND COOK OUT AT HOME AND AVOID GOING TO THE MOVIE THEATER TO TON STREAM MOVIANCE BUSINESSES THAT ARE AFFECTED.

SO WHAT KIND OF SHIFT MAY WE SEE IN CONSUMER BEHAVIOR IF PEOPLE SPEND A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME BEING CAUTIOUS ABOUT GETTING BACK TO NORMAL.

>> WELL, SHAWN, I THINK YOU ADIDN'TFIED ONE SECTOR THAT IS LIKELY TO HAVE A SLOW REBOUND AND THAT IS ANYTHING WHERE RESTAURANT, BARS, THOUGHS, CASINOS, ANYTHING HAVING TO DO WITH TRAVEL AND TOUR IM.

I FRANKLY DO NOT EXPECT AIRLINE TOES REBOUND QUICKLY AND MY BENCHMARK FOR THAT THAT IS AFTER THE 9/11 TAKES IT TOOK YEARS FOR PEOPLE BECAME SUFFICIENTLY COMFORTABLE.

UP WITH US AGAIN, AND TO BE GOING ON AIRPLANES IN THE SAME EXTENT THEY HAD BEFORE.

SO I THINK, EVEN WHEN THE GREEN LIGHT IS ON, AND YOU ARE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HAVE AS MANY PEOPLE GOING TO RESTAURANTS AS YOU PREVIOUSLY DID AND THINK MOVIES THEATERS ARE ANOTHER THING WHICH IS GOING TO HAVE DECREASE IN BUSINESS.

ANOTHER SECTOR THAT I THINK WE NEED TO WORRY ABOUT HERE IN MICHIGAN AND HISTORY SUGGESTS THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE SCARED, WHEN THERE HAS BEEN SOME KIND OF A CRISIS, THEY ARE LACKLY TO PULL BACK FROM LIKELY TO PULL BACK FROM BUYING BIG TICKET DURABLE ITEMS.

WE HAD THE AUTO PLANTS CLOSED FOR SAFETY REASONS, BUT ALSO, IT LOOKS LIKE DEMAND FOR VEHICLES IS DOWN, AND SO IT MAY TAKE SOME TIME FOR THE AUTO SECTOR TO REBOUND.

THE OTHER ONE THAT WE, I AM NOT SURE HOW, HOW MUCH OF AN EFFECT IT WILL BE.

THEN LOTS OF TRADITIONAL BRICK AND MORTAR RETAILERS HAVE STRUGGLED, THEY HAD TO CLOSING IN MANY CASES.

AND SURGE IN ONLINE SALES AND A LONG TERM TREND OF BRICK AND MORTAR TAKING IT ON THE CHIN RELATIVE TO ON-LINE AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE GOTTEN MORE AND MORE USE TO ON-LINE AND SO THAT MAY CONTINUE THAT TREND AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL BE WILLING TO GO BACK TO BRICK AND PORTER AND IT MAY TAKE SOME TIME.

>> OK.

OK.

BRI YIP, BACK OVER TO YOU.

BEFORE WE DIVE INTO THE DETAILS.

I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON THE TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN LOAN INTERESTS THE LAST ROUND OF FUNDING THAT SOME BUSINESSES ARE RETURNING TO THE GOVERNMENT.

ARE THERE CHANGES UNBLASE THE NEW FUNDING THAT DISCOURAGED ORGANIZATIONS FROM APPLYING FOR LOANS, IF THEY HAVE OTHER FORMS OF LIQUIDITY?

>> THE OTHER, THE FIRST ROUND OF FUNDING IT HAD IN THERE IN ALLOWANCE FOR THE, FOR RESTAURANTS AND HOTELS EVEN IF THEY ARE LARGER FOR EACH LOCATION TO BE CONSIDERED AS A STAND ALONE IN TY LIKE ITS OWN SMALL BUSINESS.

THOSE WERE SPECIAL RULES THAT WERE IMPOSED IN THE GUNNING.

I THINK THOSE INDUSTRIES WERE GOING TO BE PART OF GETTING NO MART HOW BIG THE COMPANY WAS.

HOWEVER, WHAT WAS SURPRISING AND SIS DISAPPOINTED TO SO MANY OF US THAT IS PUBLICLY TRADE COMPANIES WERE APPLYING FOR THOSE FUNDS IN HUGE CHUNKS IN MAXIMUM AMOUNTS THAT WERE ALLOWED AND SO THERE WAS REQUEST FOR THAT MONEY TO BE SPENT BACK.

WE WERE TOLD ABOUT $2 BILLION WAS SENT BACK AND GOES BACK TO CIRCULATION FOR FOR SMALLER COMPANIES AND THAT THOSE THE NEW RULES WOULD PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING GAIN.

>> RIGHT.

OK.

YOU MADE A POINT THERE THAT I THINK IS IMPORTANT.

I WANT TO CONFIRM FOR THE MONEY THAT IS BEING RETURNED, WE CAN'T EXPECT THAT MONEY WILL BE REDISTRIBUTED TO BUSINESSES IN NEED AS PART OF THE NEW ROUND OF FUNDING.

>> THAT IS ARE CORRECT.

WE DID VERIFY THAT WITH THE SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION THAT THE MONEY HAS BEEN RETURNED OR THE ORIGINAL GAR REN TEENS IN SOME CASES THEY WERE NOT FOLLOWED THROUGH WITH, THEY WERE CANCELED BEFORE THE TRANSACTION HAPPENED THAT MONEY IS STILL YOU A THIS RAISED AND STILL AVAILABLE FOR SMALL BUSINESS AND GOES BACK TO THE POOL IN THE SECOND ROUND.

>> GREAT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE HAPPY TO HEAR THAT.

CHARLIE, BACK OVER TO YOU.

YOU KNOW, THAT WILL BE LONG TERM EFFECTS OF THE DESUGGESTIONS WE MADE TODAY IN REGARDS TO THE ECONOMY.

SO ECONOMIST PERSPECTIVE.

WHAT TOPS YOUR LIST OF THE CHALLENGES WE'RE GOING TO CONFRONT AND ARE WE DOING THE RIGHT THING RIGHT NOW TO STABILIZE THE?

ECONOMY?

>> I THINK WE ARE IN THE BALLPARK OF THE RIGHT THING IN TERMS OF THE FISCAL AND MONITORY POLICIES.

I MEAN, WHEN THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE, YOUR FIRST PRIORITY IS TO PUT OUT THE FIRE EVEN IF YOU MAY BE WORRYING ABOUT LONGER TERM THINGS.

THE FEDERAL RESERVE HAS BEEN EXTRAORDINARILY AGGRESSIVE IN PUMPING LIQUIDITY IN ALL SORTS OF SECTORS INCLUDING SOME THINGS THAT THEY HAVE NEVER TOUCHED BEFORE, AND THE FISCAL STIMULUS IS, I THINK, YOU KNOW, I CERTAINLY, THERE ARE DETAILS THAT EVERYBODY WOULD AGREE WERE NOT RIGHT.

LOOK WHAT YOU, AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR ARE TALKING ABOUT A MINUTE AGO.

SOME OF THE LOANS GOING TO COMPANIES THAT WE DIDN'T THINK WERE THE RIGHT TARGET.

BUY THINK, OVERALL, TRYING TO DO SOMETHING BIG IN THE MIDST OF THIS CRISIS IS APPROPRIATE.

AND AFTER ALL, THIS IS UNRESIDENT.

WE HAVE NEVER HAD AN ECONOMIC DOWNTURN EVEN REMOTELY LIKE THIS.

THE SPEED OF THE CONTRACTION IS MANY TIMES FASTER THAN ANYTHING THAT WE HAVE EVER HAD BECAUSE THE CAUSE OF THIS CONTRACTION IS DIFFERENT.

IT US DUE TO SOMETHING KIND OF EXTERNAL TO THE ECONOMY, THE COVID-19 VIRUS.

AND SO, IN THAT UNPRECEDENTED REMARKABLE SITUATION, I THINK IT IS APPROPRIATE TO TAKE REALLY STRONG STEPS, ON THE OTHER HAND, I DO OR ARE WORRY ABOUT DEBT IN THE LONG RUN.

WE HAVE GOT, WE HAVE NOT BEEN DISCIPLINED IN OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BUDGET REALLY FOR THE LAST ALMOST 50 YEARS, BUT BACK TO 1969 THE ONLY TIME WE HAD FOUR YEARS WHERE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BALANCED THE BUDGET.

THIS YEAR THE ESTIMATE IS THAT THE BUDGET DEFICIT WILL BE SOMETHING BETWEEN $3 AND TRILLION.

TRILLION WITH A T. I DO HOPE THAT WHEN WE GET PAST THIS AND THAT WE CAN HAVE A SERIOUS DISCUSSION IN THE UNITED STATES ABOUT, ABOUT BASICALLY PAYING OUR BILLS AND THAT WILL MEAN EITHER RAISING ENOUGH TAXES TO PAY FOR OUR COMMITMENTS OR REDUCING THE THINGS WE SPEND ON.

NEATH OF THOSE IS AUTOS SY POLITIALLY AND THAT IS WHY WE HAVE NOT DONE THEM, BUT IN THE LONG RUN, I DO WORRY ABOUT BUILDING UP SO MUCH DEBT, NOTES HAVE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, BUT CORPORATIONS, INDIVIDUALS, AND THAT WE MAY BE SETTING OURSELVES UP FOR A FINANCIAL CRISIS AT SOME POINT IN THE TURE.

I HOPE WE CAN AVOID THAT.

>> CERTAINLY SOME HARD TRUTHS TO CONSIDER.

I LAKE TO COME BACK OVER TO YOU.

THE ON-LINE PORTAL FOR SUBMITTING APPLICATIONS FOR THESE NEW LOANS AND NEW ROUND OF FUNDING.

IT CRASHED SHORTLY AFTER THE FUNDING BECAME AVAILABLE.

NOW, WHEN THAT HAPPEN.

THERE WERE ANDLY CASSES THAT DIDN'T GET SUBMITTED OR ALREADY IN THE PIPELINE.

LET ME ASK YOU?

ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT TECHNICAL ISSUES AND SYSTEM FAILURE MAY CAUSE SOME BUSINESSES TO LAST OUT ON THE FUNDING OPPORTUNITY.

>> WELL, WE HAVE BEEN CONCERNED ALL THE WHICH WERE A. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A SYSTEM CONSTRUCTED THAT WAS MEANT TO DEAL WITH THE TYPE OF VOLUME THAT THEY ARE HANDLING TODAY.

THAT GOES FOR THE SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION AS WELL.

NOW, NOW, THERE WERE SOME PRETTY QUICK ADJUSTMENTS THAT WERE MADE AFTER THE PORTAL CRASHED ON MONDAY.

1:00 IF YOU MIGHT RECALL, THEN, ROUND ONE, IT TOOK AWHILE TO GET UP AND RUNNING BECAUSE IT WAS ONE BREAK TO THE PRESIDENT'S SUG TURE TO THE DEPLOYMENT ON THE STREETS, SO NOT ALL BANKS CAME ONLINE AT THE SAME TIME.

FOR ROUND TWO, ALL BANKS CAME ON-LINE AT EXACTLY THE SAME TIME AND IT WAS JUST NOT, IT DIDN'T HAVE THE BANDWIDTH TO DEAL WITH IT.

SO AS THEY RESTARTED IT.

WHAT THEY ENDED UP DOING WAS BRINGING A LIMIT ON, ON TIME PERIODS, HOW MANY APPLICATIONS TRUE AND IT JUST, IT RATING SIZED THE DEMAND TO THE PAPELINE THAT COULD ACCEPT THE APPLICATIONS OR RIGHT SIDE APPLICATION FLOW I SHOULD SAY, SO, YEAH, I AM CONCERNED, THOUGH, STILL, BECAUSE THE SMALLER THE COMPANY, THE LESS LUCKILY THEY ARE TO HAVE THE TYPE OF COMMERCIAL BANKS AND RELATIONSHIPS THAT ENSURES THEIR APPLICATIONS MADE A PRIORITY.

NOW, THE $310 BILLION IS NOT INSIGNIFICANT AMOUNT BUT DEMAND WILL BE GREATER THAN THAT.

SO OUR HOPE, THOUGH, THIS TIME, THAT WE WILL SEE THE AVERAGE LOAN SIZE GETS SMALLER DURING THIS APPLICATION BECAUSE THAT, THAT WOULD INDICATE THAT YOU ARE GETTING TO THE SMALLER COMPANY, THE SMALLER COMPANIES TEND TO BE THE ONES WITH THE FEWEST OPTIONS AVAILABLE TO THEM ESPECIALLY FOR OUR GOAL WE KNOW THAT PEOPLE CALL THIS THE 2.2 TRILLION STIMULUS PACKAGE AND MORE LIKE A SURVIVAL PACKAGE AND STIMULUS MAYBE THAT, THAT WILL BE A CONVERSATION FOR THE YOU TURE BUT RIGHT NOW.

YOU IS ABOUT GETTING THROUGH THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS WHEN ECONOMIC ACTIVITY IS AT A LEVEL THAT WE COULD NEVER HAVE EVEN CONTEMPLATED JUST A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO.

>> AND I WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THOSE SMALL BUSINESS AND MINUTE.

BUT CHARLIE, BACK OVER TO.

YOU KNOW, SOME POSITION AS SUGGESTED THAT FROM AN ECONOMIC PERSPECTIVE.

RECESSION CANNOT BE COMPARED TO PREVIOUS SESSION BECAUSE THE ECONOMY WAS MOVING ALONG FINE AND THEN THE VIRUS HAPPENED.

A CHANGED EVERYTHING IN TANLY.

I KNOW, THAT KIND OF MADE THIS WHAT IS BEING REFERRED TO AS ARTIFICIAL RECESSION.

YOU TOUCHED ON THIS.

PHYSICIAN THIS IS ARTIFICIAL, A DOES THAT MEAN FOR POTENTIAL RECOVERY?

>> WELL, THINK, ARE RIGHT.

THIS ONE IS DIFFERENT FROM ANY THAT WE EVER HAD BEFORE BECAUSE IT WAS NOT CAUSED BY A SPIKE IN OIL PRICES OR A MEL DOWN IN THE FINANCIAL MARKETS IT WAS CAUSED BY SOMETHING ELSE.

AND WHAT THAT DOES IS IT HOLDS OPEN THE HOPE THAT WHEN WE GET THE VIRUS REASONABLY UNDER CONTROL, THE REBOUND MAY BE REASONABLY FAST.

I, I THINK THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE WE WILL HAVE A PRETTY ROBUST REBOUND IF WE GET THINGS UNDER CONTROL.

ULTIMATELY, THE REAL GOLD STANDARD WILL BE TO HAVE A VACCINE THEN WE CAN REALLY FULLY DEFEAT THE VIRUS BETWEEN NOW AND THEN, IT IS GOING TO BE A COMBINATION OF SOCIAL DISTANCING, QUARANTINE, ISOLATION, TESTING, AND CONTACT TRACING.

IF WE DO ENOUGH OF THAT, WE MAY BE ABLE TO GET A FAIRLY DECENT RECOVERY WITHIN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS AND BUY DON'T WANT TO OVERSTATE THE POSSIBILITY OF THAT.

FOR ONE THING, THERE IS LOTS OF MODELS THAT SUGGESTS WE MAY HAVE A REBOUND OF INFECTIONS, SOMETIMES IN THE FALL OR WINTER, THEN, THAT WILL CERTAINLY SLOW THINGS DOWN.

THEN, THEN, BEYOND THAT, WHEN THERE HAS BEEN A SHOCK TO THE ECONOMY AS BIG AS THIS ONE.

IT WILL TAKE TIME TO GET THINGS BACK TO NORMAL AND MANY OF THE MODELS SAY WE CANNOT REASONABLY EXPECT TO BE SORT OF BACK TO WHATEVER NORMAL IS UNTIL SOMETIME IN 2022.

>> OK.

ALL RIGHT.

PRAYIAN, I WANT TO GO DOOR TO PAYCHECK PROTECTION PROGRAM FOR MINUTE.

YOU KNOW, MR.

WERE BUSINESSES THAT APLAYED FOR LOANS IN THE LAST ROUND WITHOUTCEIVING FUNDS.

WILL THOSE BUSINESSES BE AT THE FRONT OF THIS LUNE NOW OR BE ABLE TO REAZI.

>> THOSE APPLICATIONS, I DON'T KNOW ANY SEXES TO THIS RAUL, THOSE APPLICATIONS WERE MAINTAINED IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY WERE RECEIVED AND SO WE CHECKED WITH A LOT OF BANS ON THIS AND CHECKED WITH THE COUPLE OF THE MAN ASSOCIATIONS THAT BANKS BELONG TO TO TRY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE APPLICATIONS.

ARE YOU MAINTAINING THEM.

DO PEOPLE NEED TO GO BACK TO REAPPLY AND IF YOU LOOKED AT HEM.

HAVE UNDERWHERE IT BE THEM SO YOU KNOW YOU HAVE EVERYTHING YOU NEED SO WHEN THIS GETS TURNED BACK ON.

IT IS A MATTER OF SERVICE MITTING THEM THROUGH THE PROCESS.

WE HEARD THE RIGHT ANSWERS THEY WERE KEPT.

THEY WERE, THEIR PLACE IN LINE IS MAWNTAINED.

OF THE WOULD BE SUBMITTED.

SO WE'RE VERY HOPEFUL THAT THIS, THAT, THAT SECOND ROUND GETS VERY, VERY DEEP INTO THE POOL OF SMALL BUSINESSES THAT ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW THEY MAKE PAY ARE AND KEEP THE TEAMS TOGETHER.

THAT IS REALLY THE POINT BEHIND THE PAYCHECK PROTECTION PROGRAM AND THE THIS RY FIS KEEP EMPLOYEES ATTACHED TO THEIR EM POI YEARS WHEN IT BECOMES WHEN ENVIRONMENT IS READY FOR THE ECONOMIC RESTART IT WILL HAPPEN FASTER.

THAT EMPLOYEES WON'T HAVE TO REHIRE PEM AND RETRAIN PEOPLE AND THEIR WORK FORCE DIDN'T GET SKATE ARED TO THE WIND IT STAYED TOGETHER.

THAT IS WHAT WE'RE HOPING FOR IN THIS AND I WITH AGREE WITH PROFESSOR BALLARD, WE DONE, WE DON'T REALLY KNOW, AND IN TERMS OF HOW WALK THE RECOVERY COULD BE, BUT IT FEELS LIKE AND THERE ARE CERTAIN AMOUNT OF ACTIVITY THAT COULD HAPPEN QUICKLY AND IF YOU LOOK ACROSS THE LANDSCAPE OVER THE WEEKEND YOU WELL SEE AS SAN AS LANDSCAPING WAS GREEN LIGHTED BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT I HAVE SEEN SO MANY WEED WACKER AND LAWNMOWERS OUT IN MY LIFE AS I HAVE SEEN IN THE LAST FEW DAYS.

I KNOW THERE IS SOME ACTIVITY THAT WILL BOUNCE BACK QUICKLY.

BUT THERE IS OTHER THAT MAYBE THEY WILL BUNS BACK BUT THEY WILL BOUNCE BACK IN TOGETHER DELIVER RENT WAYS.

THAN WHAT IS WE'RE TRYING TO ANTICIPATE.

THE WAYS THAT THINGS ARE GOING TO CHANGE IN THE FUTURE, IT COULD TOTALLY MAKE SOME PEOPLE AND COMPLETELY RUIN OTHER PEOPLE.

AND UNTRYING TO ANTICIPATE AND DEAL WITH SOME OF THOSE ISSUES I THINK IS A REAL CHALLENGE THAT POLICY MAKERS HAVE IN FRONT OF THEM.

>> YEAH.

YEAH.

I AGREE A LOT OF THOSE LAND SCARES ARE STANDING AT THE READY AS I NOAH LOVE BUSINESSES ARE LOOKING FOR TOWARD GETTING BACK TO WORK.

YOU KNOW, CHARLIE, BUSINESSES WILL BE PUTTING UP THE OPEN SIGNS.

THE HOPE IS, AS BRIANS WITH ALLUDING TO, CONSUMERS WILL COME RUSHING BACK IN.

AT THIS POINT, WE SIMPLY DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

THE BEST THING WE CAN DO RIGHT NOW IS LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE CANEDDORS SO AS ECONOMIST, HOW WOULD YOU RATE CONSUMER CONFIDENCE RIGHT NOW?

RECOGNIZE AGO THAT IT MAY BE ARTIFICIALLY LOCALLY.

WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE NOW?

>> WELL, CONSUMER CONFIDENCE OF COURSE IS CRUCIAL TO THE RECOVERY AND LUCKY HAVER THAN STATE OF MICHIGAN AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN IN ANN ARBOR.

SURVEY WHICH IS.

THE MOST RECENT IT CAN'TORS OF PEOPLE'S VIEW OF THE CURRENT SITUATION AND REALLY BAD WHICH IS WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT.

THEY EXPERIENCED A DROP OVER THE LAST TWO MONTHS AND BIGGER THAN THEY HAD EVER HAD IN THE HISTORY OF THEIR SURVEY AND BUT, ON THE PLUS SIDE, THEY DONE JUST ASK PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THINGS CURRENTLY, THEY ASKED ABOUT EXPECTATION FOR THE FUTURE.

AND THOSE ARE MUCH MORE OPTIMISTIC AND THAT IS BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE SHARE MY HOPE THAT AND WE CAN DO ENOUGH TO CONTROL THE CRAY RUSS, THEN, THEN IN THE COMING MONTHS, WE WILL BE ABLE TO HAVE A HALFWAY DREN REBOUND AS RYAN SAID.

I WILL GIVE YOU A PLUS AND MINUS.

I WENT TO HOME DEPE AND ALMOST MITTING THE UM BER OF PEOPLE IN THE STORE AND THERE IS A LONG LINE OF PEOPLE AT HOME STANDING OUT WAITING FOR THEIR TURN TO GO TO HOME DEA POE.

SOUNDS GOOD.

A LOT OF ECONOMIC ACTIVITIES THAT WAS WAITING TO HAPPEN.

ON HER TO HAND, I SAW A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WERE TWO GET AWAY FROM EACH OTHER AND A FOOT AND A HALF AWAY FROM EACH OTHER.

THAT IS NOT GOOD.

IF PEOPLE DON'T OBEY THE SOCIAL DISTANCING GUIDELINES, THEN, WE ARE LOOKING FOR TROUBLE AS WE MOVE TO THE SUMMER AND THE FALL.

SO I HOPE THAT IN ADDITION TO THE JOY THAT WE ALL HAVE ABOUT CERTAIN THINGS OPENING UP AGAIN, THAT WE CAN MAINTAIN SOME GOOD COMMON SENSE BECAUSE THE VIRUS IS STILL OUT THERE AND MOST OF US DO NOT HAVE I MACHINE TY TO IT.

YOU IMMUNE TOY IT.

VERY GOOD POINT.

I WANT TO GET IN A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS ON THIS PAYCHECK PROTECTION PROGRAM.

WE GOT A QUESTION FROM A VIEWER WHERE ASKING WHAT YOU KNOW, IF A SMALL BUSINESS IS TRADITIONALLY DEFUNNED AS FEWER THAN 500.

WHAT ABOUT THE BUSINESSES JUST ONE EMPLOYEE IS THAT, THAT IS ONE WOMAN OR ONE MAN'S SOLE PROPRIORITYSHIP OR LLC ELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE IF THEY CAN DEMONSTRATE THEY LOST FUNDING AS A RESULT OF COVID-19.

>> WELL, THEY DO IN FACT QUALIFY.

SO THIS IS, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES THE PROGRAMS, THEY ARE TIDE TO W2 ABLES CERTAINLY THE PROTECTION PROTECTION PROGRAM WAS DESIGNED AROUND REPLACING W2 WAGES.

HOWEVER, THEY EXPLICITLY CONGRESS, CONGRESS EXPLICITLY DIRECTED THE 10 9 CONTRATORS AND PROPRIETORS AND IN THESE ARE LIKE PART OF THAT WHAT YOU CONSIDER THE GIG ECONOMY THAT YOU CAN APPLY AND INSTEAD OF TURNING IN THE PAYROLL RECORDS, YOU WILL TURN IN PROBABLY SCHEDULE C OR E OF YOUR TAX RETURNS FROM LAST REMEMBER TO SHOW WHAT YOUR NET NORTH CAROLINAS WITH AND USE THAT TO BASE THE SIZE OF YOUR PAYCHECK PROTECTION LOAN ON.

NOW, THERE IS A CALF VERY ATE TO THAT, THOUGH.

WE RECOMMEND THAT PEOPLE COMPARE THAT TO IF YOU ARE A SOLO, AN INDIVIDUAL TO COMPARE THAT TO THE UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT THAT EXISTS BECAUSE THAT IS $600 A WEEK OR $2,400 A MONTH FOR BETWEEN NOW AND THE END OF JULY.

FOR SOME SOLE PROPRIETORS THAT MAY EXCEED ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE PAYCHECK PROTECTION PROGRAM IS MEANT TO COVER ABILITY WEEKS OF PAY ARE SO IT IS LIMITED TIMEFRAME SO IT MAKES SENSE FOR BUSINESS NORTHERNS TO LOOK AT ALL OF THE DIFFERENT OPTIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO THEM AND A LOT OF THEM WOULD NOT REALIZE, NEVER QUALIFY FOR UNEMPLOYMENT IN THE PAST BUT THOSE RULES HAVE CHANGED AS WELL.

BUT I ALWAYS WANT TO THAN SYSTEM WAS NOT DID HE AND SO TO HANDLE THE AMOUNT OF VOLUME NOW AND NOT DID HE SOONED TO HANDLE CONTRACTORS SO TAKING A ROUND BEING AND IT DOESN'T WORK VERY OF EFFICIENT IF ILY BUT THE FINANCIAL BENEFIT MAY EXCEED THE PAYCHECK PROTECTION PROGRAM.

>> ETTE ME ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION HERE.

THIS WAS A SUBSTANTIAL WHAT WOULD YOU CALL, SURVIVAL PACK AGE FOR SMALL BUSINESSES AS WE DISCUSSED TODAY.

WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO BEFORE WE SELL INTO A NEW NORMAL.

WHAT IS YOUR BEST GUESS ON WHETHER OR NOT IT WOULD BE BE ENOUGH TO GET BUSINESS OVER THE HUMAN LOOK AT SURVIVL THOSE ARE THINKING THIS WOULD BE GOOD.

>> I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN MANY SIGNAL BACON GRESSES THAT THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER MAJOR PKAGE PROBABLY SOMETHING SUBSTANTIAL AND I THINK IT WILL BE FOCUSED MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE ON STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, SO AS LONG AS AS WELL AS THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM AND HOWEVER, I WON A BE SURPRISED THERE WAS ADDITIONAL STIMULUS IN TERMS OF IN SOMETHING MORE LIKE TRADITIONAL STIMULUS PACKAGE AND THAT FOCUSES ON STRUCTURE, TOO.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF POSSIBILITIES OUT THERE, AND IT DOES, IT DES APPEAR, CONGRESS TO IS LOOKING AT AT VERY AGGRESSIVE FUTURE STEPS BEYOND THIS TIMEFRAME THAT WE'RE IN.

BUT I REALLY WAY THAT MATTERS IS IN TERMS OF WHAT IS NEEDED IN THE RESPONSE IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS HOW LONG THE SHUTDOWN LASTS SO THE LONG ARE THE SHUTDOWN LASTS THE MORE SUPPORT THAT IS NEEDED TO HELP PEOPLE GET THROUGH IT AND I THINK MICHIGAN STUCK WITH A SCHEDULE LIKE OHIO AND WHOLE DIFFERENT PICTURE COMPARED TO IF WE HANG OUT.

>> RIGHT.

RIGHT.

WELL, WE ARE ALMOST OUT OF TIME HERE.

I WANT TO THANK BOTH YOU FOR AM PO COMING ON TO GIVE US UPDATE ON SMALL BUSINESSES HERE IN MICHIGAN REALLY GREAT INFORMATION.

CHARLIE THANK YOU FOR GIVING US SOME IN SIGHT INTO THE ECONOMIC ISSUES WE ALL IMMEDIATE TO BE THINKING ABOUT.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> THANKS PLEASUE TO BE WITH YOU.

>> EVEN SOME BUSINESSES BEE GONE ROPE.

THERE IS A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY ABOUT WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS AS OUR GUESTS MADE CLEAR TODAY, GETTING THE ECONOMY BACK UP AND RUNNING WILL REQUIRE BUSINESSES AND CONSUMETORS WORK TOGETHER.

FOR MORE INFORMATION ON UPCOMING TOPICS AND ON GUEST ON THE SHOW, YOU CAN CONNECT WITH WKAR AND TWITTER ON WKAR OR ON INSTAGRAM.

WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU, TOO.

BUT A LIKE TO SUBMATE WRITTEN OR VIDEO QUESTION, GO TO WKAR.

ORG/MY QUESTIONS.

♪ IN THE COMING WEEK, WE'LL LEARN MORE ABOUT THE FURTHER LOOSENING OF COVID-19 RESTRICTIONS IN MICHIGAN AS THEY BECOME AVAILABLE OR BRING THEM TO WITH YOU INFORMED PERSPECTIVES.

ON BEHALF OF THE ENTIRE COVID-19 ANSWERS AND IN SIGHT TEAM.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

STAY WELL.