(uplifting music) - [Voiceover] A production of PBS Charlotte.

- Coming up on Unspun, if you're the candidate that even whispers that changes in Social Security are needed, well get ready for the negative ads from your opponent.

It's not just about Social Security, I will also give you my top five budgetary items that politicians will not talk about on the campaign trail and we'll get some straight talk about Social Security from one of the few leaders in Washington willing to take the heat in order to fix the problem.

In today's America, welcome to the spin game.

Believe me, I know, I'm Pat McCrory.

When I was governor and mayor, I played the spin game.

I was played by the spin game.

But aren't we all done being spun?

Let's take the spin out of the world we're in, here on Unspun.

Good evening, I'm Pat McCrory and welcome to Unspun.

A show that tells you what politicians are thinking but not saying.

So how do you fix something that everybody says is broken but nobody wants to say it out loud?

Something that everyone admits in private needs a change, but nobody wants to risk the political payback for changing it.

What's the political payback?

What's the pushback?

Well just watch the following negative commercials where Republicans attack Republicans and Democrats attack Republicans, too.

It's political cannon fodder, and it works.

- [Biden] When I argued if we should freeze federal spending, I meant Social Security as well.

- [Voiceover] Trump's suggesting that he is willing to make cuts to Social Security and Medicare.

- What we do know is 65 is way too low and we need to increase that.

- [Voiceover] Haley's plan cuts Social Security benefits for 82% of Americans.

- Wow, and that's just the presidential campaign commercials, not even the federal Congressional or Senate commercials.

I'm talking about Social Security, but maybe we should call it "Social Insecurity" because right now the retirement system that millions of Americans have been paying into for decades, the same system that takes money from every one of our paychecks every month is going broke.

Everybody in Washington knows this, but you don't hear them talk about it because it will be turned into an ad against them.

They know that within 10 years, Social Security won't have enough money anymore to pay the benefits that workers were promised.

The benefits that retirees are depending on.

This is another example of politicians saying one thing but doing another.

They'll promise they'll protect Social Security, but what's the plan?

They promise they won't touch your retirement benefits, but where's the piggy bank in Washington that can guarantee that?

And what do voters think about Social Security?

Amy Burkett joins us with more.

- Thanks so much, Pat.

Americans get very passionate about the issue of Social Security solvency.

I went to the market at seventh in uptown Charlotte to find out what possible solutions folks have for the issue.

- I believe the government representatives need to manage the monies properly, that we work so hard as Americans to save up for when we retire.

We can enjoy a life of retirement.

- How do we do that, Tarryn?

I mean managing money.

People don't let us manage the government money.

What do you think politicians need to do to manage it to make sure we have Social Security when we get there?

- I think be honest with it.

Be honest with where it's going.

Be honest with how it's being spent and make it accessible to those that need it.

- John, your perspective.

- I think that they should maybe invest it in something.

There are a lot of people, I know my grandfather, he got his Social Security for a couple of months and died, and he worked all his life.

So where did that money go?

I think they need to be honest and figure out, or let the American people know, where our Social Security is going and what are they using it for.

And if they're not using it properly, I think they should invest.

- One of the things that people talk about and they say they're concerned about is there was a very large baby boomer generation, but the generation since then, our generation is a lot smaller and we're having fewer children, so there's not as many younger people working to pay into Social Security.

So by the time, like we both said, we're about a decade away from it.

What do we do when that's the case?

- Well, I think it's important for us to continue to fight as a people, you know, go to Capitol Hill, make our voice heard.

I think it's important for us to look at other opportunities as well.

Investing ourselves to make sure, because we can't truly rely on the government to take care of us, as you can see what's happening and they want to push the age out further now because their inability to manage the people's money.

- That seemed to be the sentiment everybody had that I spoke with.

They want to make sure that the money is there waiting for them when they retire.

Pat?

- Well Amy, I'm one of those baby boomers, so what do you think about the issue?

Email us your thoughts on Social Security solvency to unspun@wtvi.org.

Now as promised, here's a guy who gets criticized from all sides for his willingness to talk about changing Social Security.

But that's not stopping him.

And it's something that we all really need to hear about more because of how it affects us all.

Unspun welcomes my friend, Senator Bill Cassidy, Republican senator from Louisiana.

Senator, it is so great seeing you again and you being a part of this show, because this show is about what politicians are thinking, but not saying, but on the issue of Social Security, you're actually thinking it the right things and saying the right things, but politically it's poison.

In fact, we just showed commercials showing Trump negative ads against DeSantis and Haley because they at one time said, we're gonna raise the age to 70 for Social Security.

And now in North Carolina they're showing ads, Biden against Trump on Social Security on the exact same reasons.

So this is now Washington speak as you say, but you're one of the people who are being honest about Social Security.

First of all, tell us about the politics of Social Security and the current state of Social Security.

- Hey Pat, thanks for having me and let's talk about context first.

The current state, if you will.

The actuaries, those who oversee how the trust fund is doing, say that the trust fund will be empty, bankrupt, busted in about 2032, 2031.

Now what does that mean?

Right now there is an accumulated trust fund of all the money you and I and others have paid in that didn't have to be used at the time.

There's also a separate fund of money of that which we're paying this very moment.

That's going out to pay benefits.

Turns out, there's more people getting benefits than there is money coming in, so the trust fund is making up the difference.

But as that trust fund makes up the difference, it's progressively depleted.

And when it goes bankrupt, busted, flat, by current law, income has to match outflow and benefits will be cut by 23%.

If you're currently receiving Social Security, your benefits will be cut by 23% and that's the cost of doing nothing.

- Do you think most people, when they hear this, you know, 'cause I'm I'm now qualified for Social Security and so they're just talking it, it's law that they're gonna cut 23% but they're never gonna cut Social Security.

Is that part of the problem right now?

- It is part of the problem, and by the way, we can borrow our way out of it.

Instead of following the law, we can just borrow.

To do that over the next 75 years will cost our country $565 trillion.

That's trillion with a T. We will mortgage our children and grandchildren's future and we will put our country in an economic bind that we cannot escape from.

So, the current situation is either we cut seniors 23%, we double poverty among the elderly, or we borrow our way out of it and basically impoverish our nation as a whole.

That's the situation if we do nothing.

- Your political colleagues in the Senate know this, both Republicans and Democrats, and they probably tell you this behind closed doors.

They go, you're right Senator, we know you're right.

But many of them dare not speak about it because they're afraid of the commercials against them coming up.

- Well, I will say that we actually have a plan, that we had 14 senators, seven Republicans, seven Democrat.

Thom Tillis was among them, God bless his soul, in which we came up with a new way to address Social Security in the shortfall that would actually eliminate the need to cut, but also eliminate the long-term negative impact upon our budget.

Now, we briefed the White House on four different occasions, the Biden White House, and then Biden came out and started criticizing Republicans on Social as a campaign issue.

And one of my democratic colleagues said, well boom, the deal's off.

If he's gonna attack you, there's nothing we can do, the deal's off.

And so with the absence of presidential leadership, which is to say they will not sign it into law, there's nothing we can do as a Congress except hopefully wait for a next term when somebody's serious as the President and will seriously take on this issue, which is either going to double poverty among the elderly or impoverish our nation as a whole.

- Even at the State of the Union Address.

The last two state of the Union Address, the president stated, y'all are gonna cut Social Security and then the Republicans yelled back, no, we aren't.

That basically kills the deal.

We're on national TV primetime.

Both the Republicans and Democrats are saying, in other words, we're not gonna do anything to Social Security.

But the fact is, if they do nothing, they're doing something.

- If we do nothing, that cuts Social Security.

If we do nothing, there'll be a 23% cut.

And Pat, if I can just explain kind of our big idea.

Why I think it's different and why it works.

What we propose, is setting up a trust fund separate from Social Security.

Here's your Social Security trust fund.

We set up a separate one.

Over five years, we put $1.5 trillion into it and invest that money into the American economy, real estate, stock market, you name it, there'd be an investment board that would be an arms-length away from Congress, so Congress can't mess with it.

And it's patterned after another fund that Congress set up for the railroad retirement system under George W. Bush that has worked fantastic.

And so, if you allow this money to grow with the economy over time, and we repeal by the way, this need to do the 23% cut, we repeal that.

- Right.

- If you grow this over time, the growth of our economy is such that you eliminate the need, you don't have to raise tax rates, you don't have to cut benefits, you don't have to have the 23% cut.

There's a few other dials you have to turn.

That's where we need a president to help make the decision.

But this fund, which is exactly like your 401k, it's what every country does with their pension fund but not Social Security.

With this fund, we can bail out Social.

That's what we brief Biden on, and that's what he turned his back on.

And by the way, President Trump's not shown leadership either.

- So in the remaining 30 seconds or so, how much time do we have and is there a chance the House and Senate will pass this and if so, when?

- It won't pass this Congress.

So we're already working for next Congress.

There's got to be a solution.

Otherwise, by the early 2030s there's that 23% cut.

We're hoping that that deadline, just coming upon us, will be the motivation for Congress to get its act together, and for a president to be serious.

Before an election, it's not gonna happen.

We're hoping, we're praying that it does next Congress.

- So these commercials that are probably playing in every state in Congressional campaigns and Senate campaigns on the issue of Social Security, could they then freeze what might even happen next time by going, well I better not doing it?

I got elected by saying one thing but knowing that I was wrong.

- So we have a delicate common ground situation between Republicans and Democrats.

We think we've negotiated that.

On the other hand, they always say Social is the third rail, you touch it, you die.

What needs to be The third rail is that you do nothing.

And if you do nothing, there's a 23% cut in benefits to everyone receiving and who will receive Social.

And, by the way, the potential to impoverish our country.

That needs to be the third rail.

If we can change the terms of the debate, then we can do something right for the people.

We can do something right for our country.

- Senator, I can't tell you how much I appreciate being on the show, but more than anything, you're one of the few politicians who are saying what you think and being honest with the American people.

Thanks so much for your service to our country.

- Thank you Pat, very much.

(dramatic music) - Alright, we're gonna have some fun.

Tonight we're gonna talk about the top five budgetary items that political candidates do not want to talk about during a campaign.

Let's first start with number 5.

Number 5, candidates will not talk about pay raises to government employees unless they're teachers and police.

Why teachers and police?

Because they're very popular among the constituents.

People know their teachers, people know their police, they think they need pay raises.

But one time as governor, I gave pay raises to prison guards, the worst job in North Carolina and one of the lowest paying jobs in North Carolina, when I gave them pay raises before anyone else.

My political consultants are going, what are you doing?

They have no power.

And I'm going, that's why they need pay raises.

Number 4.

Number 4, closing or reducing the size of military bases, universities and hospitals.

Well listen, the fact of the matter is there's a lot of inefficiency.

Yes, even at military bases, universities, and hospitals, but they're a very important constituency, a very powerful constituency, so politicians will not talk about any cuts in those areas.

Number 3, oh, they will not talk about tax increases unless it's for the rich.

And then when they say the rich, they don't define who the rich is.

Is that people making over a hundred thousand dollars, two hundred thousand dollars, a million dollars, a billionaire?

They never define the rich, or do politicians define who the middle class is, because they lose votes when they talk about increasing taxes to anybody and everyone thinks they're the middle class.

So you won't hear politicians talk about tax increases unless it's to the very, very rich, which they won't define.

Number 2, cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.

Well, we've already talked about Social Security, but the same constituency is very concerned about Medicare and Medicaid.

In fact, if anything, we're increasing the cost of Medicaid because it's so popular.

And number 1, number 1, the one thing politicians will not talk about, number 1 on the campaign trail, and that is this.

Pay raises for themselves.

Listen, every politician thinks they deserve more money, whether you're in Washington or Raleigh or right here in Charlotte, but they won't talk about it because people go, you need a pay raise?

How about doing your job?

(dramatic music) Next up PBS Charlotte's Jeff Sonier joins me for a 1-on-1 segment of Unspun.

Okay Jeff, what do you got?

First of all, I'm gonna interrupt you because you know how we really feel about reporters asking politicians questions.

Do you want me to say how we really feel?

- Only if you let me say how reporters think about politicians when they answer 'em.

- We'll save that for next week.

Alright, you know how this works, Governor.

We've got questions from this week's headlines.

I ask them, you answer 'em.

One minute each for the answers.

You ready for this?

- I don't know, I'm about to find out.

- Okay, question number one this week.

What impact will a possible escalation in war, overseas, in the Middle East and particular, have on the presidential campaign in particular Biden campaign?

- I think it's gonna have a huge impact.

Usually war helps the incumbent president.

Crisis help the incumbent presidents or governors or mayors because if they do a good job, then the people go, they're leading the country.

If they do a bad job, it can tank very quickly.

So there's a risk and reward for such a tragic thing as war and it's gonna be very interesting to see those dynamics.

The interesting thing, well, how will the economy be impacted?

We're seeing gas prices go up since the Israeli bombing.

If that continues to go up, it's gonna hurt the current president.

- So these are all interlinked is what you said.

- Absolutely.

- Lemme ask you a second question.

President Trump, former President Trump, is in Wilmington this weekend for a campaign rally.

Why here?

Why now?

And who do you think his vice presidential running mate will be?

- First of all, he's in North Carolina because North Carolina is gonna be the most important state in the presidential election.

Biden has to win North Carolina.

The rest of the nation doesn't realize that North Carolina's the ninth most populous state in the nation, they think we're like 25th.

I mean really, even reporters don't know how important North Carolina is regarding the votes needed in the electoral college.

Biden right now knows North Carolina is a purple state.

It's neither red or blue.

Obama won North Carolina, Biden won North Carolina in his other term.

We switched senators, we switched governors.

It's a toss up right now.

- Are you surprised at the political comeback of Republican Mark Harris in his race for Congress here in North Carolina?

- Not at all because he had a lot of name ID, and he also had very strong support from the religious churches in Union County especially.

You know, Mark used to be the minister of First Baptist here in downtown Charlotte, so his name ID was very high.

Even through controversy, if your name ID goes high and people forgot what the controversy's all about, there's a good chance you'll win.

- Mark Harris, you'll remember, was the candidate who won the race in 2018, but those results were thrown out because of a scandal involving- - And then Dan Bishop got that seat, and now Dan Bishop's running for Attorney General.

Mark Harris is coming back to the seat.

You never know what's gonna happen in the future.

- Yeah, this far out from the actual vote in November on all the races.

What are candidates doing now before the ads start running, before the campaign appearances start coming fast and furious.

Let me tell you what the candidates want to do versus what they have to do.

The candidates want to go out and do retail politics.

They want to give speeches, they want to tell where they stand on issues.

They love retail politics.

Most politicians do.

Their consultants, their campaign advisors are going, you spend every minute of your day on the phone raising money because if you don't have enough money to have billboards, or mailings, or digital ads, or TV ads, you're gonna lose.

Get on the phone, to heck with meeting with 10 or 20 or 30 people.

It's really hard on the candidates to make those phone calls.

It's not fun.

You get a lot of rejection, you don't get callbacks.

It's the worst part of politics.

But the consultants also want to get paid, too.

And they wanna make sure their paycheck's coming through.

- So the consultants who are telling you to raise money are also getting money.

- They get the first paycheck.

- Of course they do.

Of course they do.

Hey, local politics, Charlotte City politics.

What's different about today's Charlotte City politics and politicians from back when you served as a city council member and as mayor?

- You know, I talked to a couple of the current city council members several weeks ago, the new mayor pro tem and a couple of the new rookie council members and I said, you know what, it's almost a disadvantage to you that one party controls, now, the Charlotte City Council, only two Republicans.

when I was on city council, it was usually six, five Republican or six, five Democrats.

And we had our disputes about issues.

When one party controls, whether it be in Washington, Raleigh, or even here in the city of Charlotte, guess what the arguments are about.

Power, and turf, and ego, and who gets the most media.

That's the worst kind of disputes you can have and people get fed up with it.

So, sometimes it's better to have the opposition where you can actually have debates about policy versus who gets the credit within my political party so I can win the next primary campaign.

- Yeah, you were a Republican mayor leading a mostly democratic city council, and things got done.

- Things got done, and we found compromise.

And the other dilemma is, when you have one party control, you tend to have the extremes control them because their election is determined in the primary, not the general election.

It's not good for democracy to have any one party control government completely.

- Question about city council and the airport.

They're talking about the possibility of a policy that would allow the airport to remove homeless folks who are staying at the airport.

What do you think about that?

- Are you kidding me?

I think we already have policy to do that.

I mean, frankly, anyone who comes to the airport and spends the night, for example, or sleeps, they better have a ticket and their flight better be delayed.

I mean, what's next?

You gotta have a policy not let people sleep in the city council chambers, or in the fire station, or in the police station?

I mean having, the homeless sleep at the baggage claim, first of all, when did we know about it, how long has it happened, and why haven't we moved on it later?

In fact, it's one thing if you notice locally, the politicians aren't talking about.

They aren't talking about it.

And there might be a reason why because they don't know what to do about it.

But it's not good for the airport and we're enabling the homeless.

We're not helping them, allowing them to sleep in the airport.

- Last quick question, we talked about this before we came on the air, I just gotta ask you really quickly at the end here.

Favorite political song either about politics or maybe about politics?

- Alright, you gave me a warning on this question.

I didn't have a warning on the other question.

You and I were talking about this.

It's easy for me.

The Who.

Pete Townsend wrote the famous song, "We Won't Get Fooled Again."

- And we actually have a clip right now of that song.

Let's take a peek.

♪ Meet the new boss ♪ ♪ Same as the old boss ♪ - Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

You know, one of the true realities of politics, because regardless who's mayor, or governor, or senator or president, most people don't realize about 80 to 90% of the things still remain the same.

Because the institutional structure, and also frankly, because of our constitution.

It's both protects us and sometimes it harms us from needed change.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

That was what?

1968-69 time period?

- You're making me feel old.

- It's relevant today.

- Thanks Governor, appreciate it.

That's this week's Unspun 1-on-1.

(dramatic music) - To wrap up our show, each week we've got a segment we're calling Backspin, where we'll give thanks to public servants for the things they've done in the past, and this is gonna be a tough one.

Former Mayor, Charlotte mayor pro tem Lynn Wheeler, passed away several weeks ago from cancer.

Lynn was a trailblazer in so many ways that we take for granted today.

Along with Velva Woollen and Carla DuPuy, she was a part of the first class of Republican women who ran for local office.

It was Lynn who used, for the first time, experience on the planning commission as the jumping off point to run for local political office.

In fact, Lynn's greatest political strength was working the room to get the votes to either defeat or pass a bill or new policy.

She built relationships with Republicans and Democrats, business and neighborhood leaders, and the media to help achieve her objective.

Believe me, as mayor, if I wanted something to pass, I wanted Lynn on my side.

And things did pass like no other time in our city's history.

And many had Lynn's fingerprints all over it.

The new downtown arena, Johnson & Wales, major rezoning at Phillips Place, South Park, and Valentine, airport expansion, and light rail, domestic violent protection ordinance, and one more thing, and very important thing, more women's restrooms in Ovens Auditorium when we remodeled Ovens Auditorium.

So Lynn, I say too late, but I wanna say thank you.

Charlotte is a better place because of your service.

Well, that does it for tonight's episode of Unspun.

Thanks for joining us and I hope you'll come back next week as we explore the political fight for power in both Washington and right here in North Carolina on our next Unspun, where we'll tell you what politicians are thinking but not saying.

Goodnight, folks.

(uplifting music) - [Voiceover] A production of PBS Charlotte.