TIME-AND MONEY-RUNNING OUT FOR SOCIAL SECURITY A NEW HOUSING PLAN TO STABILIZE SYRACUSE AND LABOR UNIONS ON THE MARCH?

STAY TURNED FOR IVORY TOWER, NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED ON THE PANEL TONIGHT BY SARAH PRALLE FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, ANIRBAN ACHARYA FROM LEMOYNE COLLEGE, TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE, AND CHAD SPARBER FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THIS WEEK RELEASED ITS LATEST ESTIMATES OF THE FINANCIAL HEALTH OF SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE.

AND WHILE THE SITUATION IS SOMEWHAT IMPROVED, IT'S STILL DIRE.

THE SOCIAL SECURITY TRUST FUND IS EXPECTED TO RUN OUT 9 YEARS FROM NOW, RESULTING IN BENEFIT CUTS OF 21%.

MEDICARE IS IN SOMEWHAT BETTER CONDITION.

FEW PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON APPEAR TO HAVE ANY APPETITE FOR REFORMING THE SYSTEM, AND THE ALTERNATIVE IS TAKING ON MORE DEBT TO FUND IT.

SO, CHAD, WHAT 2450EDZ TO BE DONE TO SHORE UP THE SYSTEM THAT SO MANY AMERICANS DEPEND UPON.

>> UNFORTUNATELY A LOT.

WE NEED TO RAISE THE RETIREMENT AGE TO 70.

MAKE SOCIAL SECURITY MEANS TESTED AND ELIMINATE THE SALARY TAX CAP BECAUSE CONSIDER THIS: IF YOU GO TO THE COMMITTEE FOR A RESPONSIBLE FEDERAL BUDGET, THEY HAVE THIS WONDERFUL DEBT TOOL TO TRY TO FIX THE DEBT PROBLEM IN THE COUNTRY IT ESTIMATES IF WE TAKE ALL THREE OF THESE STEPS, WE BRING THE DEBT TO G.D.P.

RATIO DOWN BY MINISCULE 4 PERCENTAGE POINTS AND THAT DATA IS, TO ME, REALLY IMPORTANT FOR UNDERSTANDING THAT, IF WE REALLY DO WANT-- THAT WE REALLY DO HAVE TO CUT BENEFITS, RAISE TAXES AND ANGER A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE IF YOU WANT TO KEEP SOCIAL SECURITY SOLVENT.

>> AND DO IT ALL TOGETHER TO MAKE IT WORK POLITICALLY?

>> POLITICAL GENERALLY HIVE I'M SAYING ECONOMICALLY.

IF THIS MATTERS TO YOU, THIS HAS TO HAPPEN.

POLITICALLY YOU HAVE ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO, WHO KNOWS.

>> YOU SAID 70 AS RETIREMENT AGE.

NO SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITEDS UNTIL AGE 70, IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?

>> UNFORTUNATELY, YEAH, TO KEEP IT SOLVENT.

>> I DISAGREE WITH RAISING THE RETIREMENT AGE THAT HIGH.

OUR LIFE EXPECTANCY IS ACTUALLY GOING TOWN.

IT'S GONE DOWN ABOUT A YEAR FOR MEN AND A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN THAT FOR WOMEN.

AND, YOU KNOW, I WAS LOOKING COMPARATIVELY AT RETIREMENT AGES IN OTHER COUNTRIES, IN WHICH WHEN YOU GET YOUR FULL PENSION AT WHAT AGE.

AND YOU KNOW, THE AVERAGE IS 64-65, SOME COUNTRIES ARE GOING UP TO 67 LIKE THE VERY GENEROUS COUNTRIES LIKE SWEDEN AND DENMARK.

BUT THEY ALSO PAY 90% OF YOUR PRERETIREMENT INCOME.

WE PAY 40%.

AND THEY'RE ONLY AT 67.

SO I DON'T-- 70 SEEMS LIKE VERY OLD TO ME AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE POINT OF LIVING IN THE WEALTHIEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IF YOU CAN'T ENJOY SOME YEARS, SOME DECADES OF RETIREMENT?

>> SO ANIRBAN, SOME PEOPLE HAVE SAID, OR DESCRIBED SOCIAL SECURITY AS A PONZI SCHEME.

>> YEAH, IT HAS BEEN GOING AROUND FOR A LONG TIME.

LOOK, WE CAN DEBATE THAT.

I DON'T THINK IT'S A PONZI SCHEME.

THERE ARE GOOD ARTICLES THAT SAY IT'S NOT A PONZI SCHEME BECAUSE IT'S NOTHING LIKE TRYING TO BAMBOOZLE PEOPLE, YOU ARE PUTTING SOMETHING IN AND YOU WILL GET SOMETHING OUT.

NOW, YOU KNOW, TO RESPOND TO OUR-- ECONOMICS CANNOT EXIST WITHOUT POLITICS, RIGHT?

BECAUSE WHATEVER 67-70 CAN ONLY WORK IF IT IS POLITICALLY VIABLE.

WHEN ONE ADJUSTS THE SOCIAL SECURITY PAYOUTS ADJUSTED BASED ON THE ARCH WAGE INDEX,-- THE AVERAGE WAGE INDEX SO THAT IF WE ADJUST IT BASED ON THE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX, THEN MAYBE THE INCREASE WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT LESS AND WOULD BE MORE SOLVENT.

AND SECOND, I WAS THINKING LIKE SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES STOP AT 168 THROW.

I MEAN I WOULD ASK WHY IS THAT.

WHY CAN'T WE INCREASE THAT A LITTLE BIT TO HIGHER INCOME EARNERS WHO PAY IN.

AND I AGREE WITH MEANS TESTED BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THEN DOESN'T IT DEINCENTIVIZE PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, SAVE FOR THEIR FUTURE IF LIKE I KNOW I WILL BE REACHED, SO I WILL NEVER GET THE SOCIAL SECURITY PAYMENT BUT IT'S A MANDATORY TAX THAT EVERYONE PAYS.

WHAT IS YOUR POLITICAL VIABLE COULD BE, YOU KNOW, THE WAGE CPI KIND OF ADJUSTMENT AND ALSO HAVING HIGHER INCOME PEOPLE PAY INTO SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES.

>> TARA, ANIRBAN JUST TALKED ABOUT THINGS BEING POLITICALLY VIABLE.

THERE WAS, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, BACK 40 YEARS AGO, THERE WAS A BIG ATTEMPT TO REFORM SOCIAL SECURITY AND IT ENDED UP WITH A BUNCH OF ELDERLY PEOPLE CHASING DAN ROSTENKOWSKI DOWN THE STREET.

REMEMBER THAT?

HOW WILL THIS WORK?

>> YOU NEED TO START WITH POLITICAL REALITY AND THAT'S ON BOTH SIDES WHERE BOTH SIDES NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE.

THAT'S THE FIRST THING BECAUSE WE'VE HAD THESE DEBATES OVER THE YEARS WHERE, YOU KNOW, ONE SIDE WILL SAY WILL SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE AND THIS IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE AND THE OTHER SIDE SAYS NO, YOU ARE EXAGGERATING THE NUMBERS, ET CETERA.

SO FIRST THERE NEEDS TO BE A PUBLIC ACKNOWLEDGMENT.

SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE IF WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO HAVE SOCIAL SECURITY.

I THINK THE SECOND THING IS THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE ALSO MORE REALISM ABOUT THE FACT THAT ON THE ONE HAND I AGREE WITH SARAH THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK GOING ALL THE WAY TO 70 FOR THE RETIREMENT AGE WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR SOME PEOPLE.

FOR OTHER PEOPLE IT'S NO PROBLEM AT ALL.

AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH HAVING A MANDATORY RETIREMENT AGE IS THAT SOME PEOPLE WILL MAKE IT TO 70 WITH NO PROBLEM AT ALL.

DEPENDING ON YOUR JOB, DEPENDING HOW PHYSICAL IT IS.

MAKING IT TO 70 IS UNREALISTIC.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME I ALSO THINK WE NEED TO, FOR EXAMPLE, DISCOURAGE EARLY RETIREMENT INCENTIVE PLANS, WHICH EMPLOYERS LIKE TO USE SO THAT THEY CAN GET-- ELIMINATE THEIR HIGHER PAID WORKERS AND BRING IN WORKERS THEY CAN PAY LESS.

LET'S GET RID OF SOME OF THOSE THINGS.

IT WON'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM BUT IT WILL CERTAINLY HELP AND I AGREE WITH ANIRBAN, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO INCREASE THE TAX THAT'S JUST THE REALITY.

>> THAT IS A GREAT POINT.

>> IMMIGRATION ALSO.

>> WELL LET'S TALK ABOUT THE IMMIGRATION THING.

SO THE IMMIGRATION CAN BE A SOLUTION BUT IT DEPENDS ON YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

SO TO COLLECT BENEFITS, HAVE YOU TO WORK FOR 10 YEARS, WHICH MEANS IF YOU HAVE A TEMPORARY IMMIGRATION PROGRAM, TEMPORARY WORKER PROGRAM WHERE PEOPLE ARE IN THE COUNTRY AND THEY'RE PAYING INTO THE TAXES BUT THEY'LL NEVER ACTUALLY RECEIVE THE BENEFITS, THAT CAN WORK AND THAT'S ONE REASON THAT RIGHT LEANING INSTITUTIONS LIKE THE CATO INSTITUTE ARE LIKE PRO-IMMIGRATION.

BUT MORE PROGRESSIVE TYPES, LIKE THE CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS, THEY SEE THAT AS ITS OWN FORM OF INJUSTICE AND THEY WILL SAY THESE PEOPLE PAYING IN THE SYSTEM SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHTS TO COLLECT BENEFITS LATER DOWN THE ROAD.

IF YOU DO THAT ROUTE, ALL YOU ARE DOING IS KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD AND IT'S NOT A SOLUTION AT ALL.

>> BUT HAVE YOU MORE PEOPLE PAYING INTO THE SYSTEM TO FUND CURRENT BENEFICIARIES.

THE PROBLEM WITH SOCIAL SECURITY IS THE DEMOGRAPHICS.

IT'S NOT THE GENEROSITY OF THE PAYMENTS BECAUSE WE HAVE ALL THESE PEOPLE RETIRING AND NOT ENOUGH WORKERS.

SO IF WE HAD IMMIGRANTS COME AS WORKERS TO PAY INTO THE SYSTEM,IT'S GOING TO HELP FUND THE CURRENT BIG BOOM WITH BABY BOOMERS.

>> BUT THAT IS EXACTLY KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD PROBLEM AND SPEAKS TO-- OF COURSE IT'S A PONZI SCHEME.

IT IS AN UNFUNDED SYSTEM THAT EXISTS BECAUSE POLITICIANS DON'T HAVE THE POLITICAL WILL TO DEFEND THE SYSTEM.

IF YOU LOOK HISTORICALLY OR ACROSS COUNTRIES, THE ONES THAT HAVE SOLVENT PENSION SYSTEMS LIKE SINGAPORE, THEY'RE FAIRLY AUTOCRATIC IN HOW THEY ESTABLISH THESE THINGS.

AND SO, NO!

IMMIGRATION JUST PUSHES THE PROBLEM DOWN THE ROAD.

>> SO IS THE ONLY REALISTIC WAY TO HANDLE THIS, KIND OF ALL THE ABOVE, ALL OF THESE CHANGES HAVE TO TAKE PLACE AND BOTH PARTIES RIGHT NOW, WE ARE NOT SEEING A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY FROM EITHER.

BHOATH PARTIES TOGETHER HAVE DO THAT BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO BE SUCH A DIFFICULT, YOU KNOW THING TO DO.

>> YEAH, BECAUSE AT THIS POINT IT'S ABOUT WHAT WOULD BE LIKE 2.3 PEOPLE PAYING FOR EVERY RETIREE, WHICH WAS ABOUT FIVE OR SIX DURING ABOUT 50, 60 YEARS AGO SO THAT'S A REALLY DIRE THING.

>> OF WORKERS AT A MERCEDEZ-BENZ PLANT IN ALABAMA WILL VOTE NEXT WEEK ON WHETHER THEY WANT TO JOIN THE UNITED AUTOWORKERS.

IT'S PART OF THE UAW'S DRIVE TO ORGANIZE, 150,000 WORKERS AT NON-UNION PLANTS, MOSTLY IN THE SOUTH.

RECENTLY, WORKERS AT A VOLKSWAGON PLANT IN TENNESSEE VOTED TO JOIN THE U-A-W.

THE UNION ALSO REACHED A LAST-MINUTE DEAL WITH DAIMLER THAT GIVES 25% PAY RAISES TO WORKERS IN SIX SOUTHERN STATES.

BUT THERE IS ALSO AGGRESSIVE ANTI-UNION PUSHBACK FROM COMPANIES LIKE STARBUCKS, WHERE EMPLOYEES HAVE BEEN TRYING TO ORGANIZE.

WHAT'S YOUR SENSE OF THE UNION MOVEMENT TODAY?

>> I'M VERY HOPEFUL ABOUT THE LABOR MOVEMENT.

I PERSONALLY CHEER IT ON BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE MAIN ENGINES OF CAPITALISM IS LABOR.

THERE WOULD BE NO CAPITALISM WITHOUT LABOR.

AND IT IS QUITE-- THE DATA SHOWS AMERICAN WORKERS HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY PRODUCTIVE.

PRODUCTIVITY OF AMERICAN WORKERS HAS INYEARSED QUITE A LOT IN THE LAST HALF CENTURY AND THE QUESTION IS THE VALUE THAT HAS BEEN GENERATED, HOW WILL THAT BE SHARED BY THE OWNERS OF CAPITAL AND OWNERS OF LABOR POWER?

AND WE ARE SEEING OF COURSE, AFTER THE PANDEMIC, THE LABOR IS RESURGENCE, THEY'RE TRYING TO GAIN MORE WAGES, MORE BENEFITS, MORE TIME FOR THEMSELVES.

AND LOOK, IT'S NOT JUST AUTO COMPANIES, RIGHT?

THE NEWS GUILDS HAD ORGANIZED 145 SHOPS, THE MINNEAPOLIS TEACHERS STRUCK IN APRIL AND GOT A SUBSTANTIAL RAISE.

ST. VIN EPT GOT A RAISE.

PHILADELPHIA MUSEUM ARTWORKERS STRUCK THE MANAGEMENT AND GOT A RAISE.

WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT THE UNITED WORKERS-- THE UNITED AUTO WORKERS IS THEY GOT RID OF THE SOLIDARITY BREAKING TWO TIER SYSTEM THAT DISCOURAGED YOUNG PEOPLE TO GET INTO THE UNION BECAUSE YOU ARE IN THE SECOND TIER.

SO THEY GOT RID OF IT AND NOW EVERYBODY JOINS AT A SIMILAR FOOTING.

SO I DO THINK THIS IS A GREAT TIME FOR LEARN LABOR AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO THIS AND REAP BENEFITS IN THE ELECTION FROM THIS.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK THE UNION IS MORE SUCCESSFUL NOW, TARA?

>> BECAUSE YOU HAVE A GOOD LABOR MARKET.

THOSE TWO THINGS TYPICALLY GO TOGETHER.

YOU DON'T HAVE UNIONS HAVING TO, YOU KNOW, EXPLAIN TO THEIR MEMBERSHIP, CAN, THIS IS WHY WE AGREE TO A CONTRACT WHERE, YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF A NICE RAISE, YOU ONLY GET A 2% OR 1.5% RAISE.

NO, YOU GET A 3 OR 10, IN SOME CASES, YOU KNOW, 30% RAISE.

SO THAT'S ONE ISSUE.

I THINK THE OTHER THING IS, SUCCESS BUILDS ON SUCCESS.

AND YOU HAVE HAD, IN 2023, SOME VERY VISIBLE MAJOR UNION SUCCESSES.

THE HOLLYWOOD STRIKES, THE UAW, NURSES AS YOU MENTIONED.

SO THAT BUILDS ON ITSELF.

IT MAKES MORE PEOPLE WANT TO JOIN UNIONS.

AND ESPECIALLY FOR YOUNG PEOPLE, WHO SOMETIMES DON'T SEE UNIONS AS BEING NECESSARILY THAT IMPORTANT TO THEM, BECAUSE THEY FIGURE I'VE GOT A LONGER TIME TO WORK, YOU KNOW, I WANT MORE OF MY WAGES NOW.

THE SUCCESSES MAKE UNIONS MUCH MORE ATTRACTIVE.

>> SO, CHAD, THE UAW, SUCCESSFULLY ORGANIZING SOME PLANTS AND GETTING SOME BIG RAISES IN THE SOUTH.

A CYNIC MIGHT SAY OR A SKEPTIC, I SHOULD SAY, THEY'RE GETTING THESE-- THE ECONOMIES-- THE COMPANIES ARE AGREEING TO THE DEALS BECAUSE OF THE SUBSIDIESES THAT ARE AVAILABLE IN CURRENT BIDEN ADMINISTRATION POLICIES FOR UNION COMPANIES.

IS THAT A FAIR AND VALID POINT?

>> IT'S NOT CYNICAL.

IT'S THE WALL STREET JOURNAL EDITORIAL PAGE.

YES, I THINK WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT MANUFACTURING SPECIFICALLY, I THINK LABOR SHOULD BE CAREFUL WHAT THEY WISH FOR.

THE ECONOMIST THOMAS HOLMES WROTE A PAPER-- IT'S OLD BUT STILL INFLUENTIAL BUT HE FOUND THAT MANUFACTURING GREW 23% SLOWER IN STATES THAT HAVE RIGHT TO WORK LAWS COMPARED TO MORE UNION FRIENDLY STATES.

BUT AT LEAST WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, LIKE THE AUTO INDUSTRY, YOU CAN MAKE THE CASE THAT THESE CAR COMPANIES MAKE SUPER NORMAL PROFITS AND UNDERPAY WORKERS AND YOU NEED A UNION TO COUNTER BALANCE THAT.

IT'S MUCH HARDER TO MAKE THE CASE IN LIKE FOOD SERVICE, WHERE THE COMPETITION FOR LABOR IS PRETTY INTENSE.

LOCALLY, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAW THIS WEEK, SALT CITY COFFEE EMPLOYEES RALLIED TO UNIONIZE, WHICH DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE TO ME BECAUSE THERE ARE DOZENS OF COMPETING EMPLOYERS WHO WOULD BE WILLING TO PAY FOR THEIR SERVICES IF SALT CITY WAS LOW BALLING THEM OR MISTREATING THEM IN SOME WAY.

SO THE INDUSTRY COMPONENT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

>> SARAH.

>> WELL, I MEAN I AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUES THIS SEEMS TO BE A PRETTY POSITIVE MOMENT FOR LABOR RIGHT NOW.

BUT NOT TO BE THE DEBBIE DOWNER, BUT JUST TO KEEP IN MIND THAT UNIONIZED WORKFORCE IS STILL ONLY ABOUT 10%.

SO WE HAVE ALSO BEEN ADDING JOBS TO THE ECONOMY, WHICH ARE NON-UNIONIZED.

SO AS A PERCENTAGE OF THE WORKFORCE, IT IS STILL RELATIVELY SMALL.

SO THERE IS CERTAINLY IMPORTANT WORK TO DO.

AND PART OF THAT PROBLEM HERE IS THERE IS A VERY WELL ORGANIZED WELL-FUNDED ANTIUNION EFFORT, SPECIFICALLY AT THE STATE LEVEL, WHERE A LOT OF THIS STUFF GETS PLAYED OUT.

THERE IS 27 STATES THAT HAVE RIGHT TO WORK LAWS, WHICH MAKE IT MUCH HARDER FOR UNIONS TO ORGANIZE AND RAISE THE MONEY THEY NEED BECAUSE IT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO JOIN INDUSTRIES THAT ARE UNIONIZED WITHOUT PAYING ANY FEES EVEN THOUGH THEY GET THE BENEFIT OF THE BARGAINING.

AND THOSE PUT A DEPRESSED LABOR ORGANIZING AND THEY ALSO DEPRESS TURNOUT FOR DEMOCRATS.

SO FOR OPPONENTS OF LABOR, THEY GET BOTH A POLICY WIN AND A POLITICAL WIN BECAUSE THE DOWNSTREAM EFFECTS ARE THAT TURNOUT IN ELECTIONS ARE, FOR DEMOCRATS, ARE MUCH LESS IN RIGHT TO WORK STATES.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE UNIONS ARE REALLY, REALLY GOOD AT ORGANIZING VOTERS AND GETTING OUT THE VOTE AND MOBILIZING PEOPLE, GETTING THEM INVOLVED IN POLITICS.

UNION PEOPLE, UNIONIZED PEOPLE ARE MUCH MORE ACTIVE IN POLITICS THAN NON-UNION WORKERS.

>> BUT ALSO, AGAIN, DEPRESSING UNION ACTIVITY.

BUT THOSE RIGHT TO WORK STATES INCREASE MANUFACTURING EMPLOYMENT.

>> AND DO THE UNIONIZED COMPANIES TURN OUT MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE PRODUCTS THAT WILL MAKE THEM LESS COMPETITIVE IN THE LONG RUN?

I MEAN DOES AUTOMOBILE NOW IT'S GOING TO BE MADE AT THE VW PLANT.

IS THAT GOING TO COST MORE THAN IT WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE?

>> POTENTIALLY BUT YOU ARE ALSO ENGAGING IN ALL KINDS OF OTHER RENT SEEKING ACTIVITIES LIKE TARIFFS AND ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

ANY TIME YOU ARE ARTIFICIALLY RAISING THE WAGES, THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

WHAT WE NEED TO PROTECT LABOR IS COMPETITIVE LABOR MARKETS SO FUNDAMENTALLY IS THE LABOR MARKET COMPETITIVE OR NOT IN AUTOINDUSTRY?

PROBABLY NOT.

IN COFFEE, IT IS.

>> SYRACUSE PASSED THE CITY BUDGET THIS WEEK AFTER CUTTING 14 VACANT POSITIONS SO IT COULD ADD ONE AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS FOR HOUSING.

HOUSING IS CLEARLY A MAJOR ISSUE FOR THE CITY AND STATE-BOTH GOVERNOR HOCHUL AND LOCAL LEADERS HAVE SPOKEN OF THE NEED FOR MORE AND BETTER HOMES.

BUT SHOULD CITIES SPEND LIMITED FUNDS TO DEVELOP DISTRESSED AREAS OR TO STABILIZE MIDDLE-CLASS DISTRICTS?

UNDER A NEW HOUSING STRATEGY, SYRACUSE MAYOR BEN WALSH WANTS TO PROVIDE SUBSIDIES TO SPUR PRIVATE INVESTMENT IN TWO MIDDLE NEIGHBORHOODS-- TIPP HILL AND THE SALT SPRINGS AREA NEAR LEMOYNE.

SO SARAH, IS THAT THE BEST APPROACH TO RENOVATING HOUSING IN SYRACUSE?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WHEN I FIRST HEARD OF THIS PLAN, I WAS A LITTLE SKEPTICAL.

I MEAN IT'S HARD TO WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND THE IDEA THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE USING TAXPAYER DOLLARS TO INVEST IN MIDDLE INCOME NEIGHBORHOODS AND NOT IN DISTRESSED-- ALTHOUGH WE HAVE FUNDS FOR THAT AS WELL, JUST TO NOTE.

SO IT MIGHT NOT BE SO ZERO SUM AS I'M SUGGESTING.

BUT THEN I READ THE REPORT, AND THERE WAS ACTUALLY A LOT TO LIKE IN THE REPORT.

IT WAS AN INTERESTING ANALYSIS BECAUSE WHAT IS SUGGESTED IS ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT SYRACUSE-- AND NOT JUST SYRACUSE BUT A LOT OF RUST BELT CITIES-- THERE IS AN UNDERINVESTMENT IN SO MANY OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS.

ONLY ABOUT 27% OF THE HOMES IN SYRACUSE, THEY SAID, ARE IN GOOD CONDITION OR VERY GOOD CONDITION.

AND THAT MEANS THAT THERE IS JUST LIKE A LOT OF DECAY.

AND WHAT HAPPENS IS PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO INVEST IN IMPROVING THEIR PROPERTY OR BUILDING NEW NICE HOUSING IN NEIGHBORHOODS WHEN THEY DON'T THINK THEY'RE GOING TO GET THAT RETURN ON THE INVESTMENT, RIGHT?

AND OFTEN TIMES THE RENOVATIONS COST MORE THAN WHAT THE HOUSE IS WORTH.

SO WHAT YOU GET IS THESE NEIGHBORHOODS ON THIS GRADUAL DECLINE.

THAT MEANS PEOPLE MOVE OUT TO THE SUBURBS.

THAT MEANS THE TAX BASE IN SYRACUSE IS LOWERED.

AND THE IDEA BEHIND THIS IS TO INVEST IN WHAT THEY CALL MIDDLE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE NEITHER DISTRESSED NOR STABLE, TO TRY TO GET THEM MORE ATTRACTIVE PLACES FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE AND INCREASE THE TAX REVENUE BY GETTING PEOPLE TO MOVE BACK IN THE CITY.

AND NOW THAT MICRON IS COMING, YOU KNOW, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE PEOPLE ARE MOVING HERE FOR THE JOBS NEED TO LIVE IN THE CITY IN ORDER TO MAKE IT SUSTAINABLE.

>> TARA.

>> I ABSOLUTELY THINK THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO AND, LIKE SARAH, AT FIRST I WAS NOT REALLY SURE IT IS A BOOED THING BUT THEN I REALLY SORT OF ENVISIONED TIP HILL, SALT SPRINGS, AND JUST THINKING, YOU KNOW, BEING VERY PRACTICAL, THINKING ABOUT SOME OF THE HOMES, SOME OF THEM ARE OLDER.

THEY NEED MAJOR RENOVATION AND THIS INCENTIVIZES MAKING THE RENOVATION.

I LIKE THE IDEA, FOR EXAMPLE, OF THE BLOCK GRANTS WHERE NEIGHBORS BASICALLY WILL GET TOGETHER AND WORK TOGETHER TO GET THE GRANT.

AND THEN DECIDE AMONG THEMSELVES, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT WE ARE GOING TO FOCUS ON; THAT INCREASES SENSE OF COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY THAT WILL INCREASE THE VALUE OF THE HOMES INDIVIDUALLY BUT IT ALSO WILL INCREASE THE VALUE OF THEIR HOMES AS A GROUP AND INCENTIVIZES CONTINUING TO MAINTAIN THE HOME ONCE THE GRANT IS DONE.

>> ANIRBAN, IS THIS JUST WRITING OFF DISTRESSED AREA?

>> YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK SO.

I WENT THROUGH THE REPORT.

IT'S A PRETTY DETAILED REPORT.

TWO THINGS ARE HAPPENING, RIGHT?

ONE THAT YOU MENTIONED IS THAT MARKET GAP.

THE COST AND MAINTENANCE OF A HOUSE FAR EXCEEDS THE PRICE OF THE HOUSE IN MANY PLACES.

AND THE SECOND IS THAT AFFORDABILITY GAP, LOW INCOME HOUSEHOLDS, IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE FOR THEM EVEN IN MIDDLE-CLASS HOUSEHOLDS IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE TO GET TO A BETTER NEIGHBORHOOD.

SO WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO IS THAT TO SEE WHAT MAXIMIZES THE RETURN ON INVESTMENT FOR NOW.

SO IF YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, FIXED AMOUNT OF MONEY, WHAT NEIGHBORHOODS CAN YOU PUT IN THAT MONEY THAT WILL ACTUALLY INCREASE THE TAX BASE?

NOW, OF COURSE, IT'S GOOD THING TO THINK ABOUT THAT YOU CAN GO TO DISTRESSED NEIGHBORHOODS BUT JUST DOING THAT WOULD NOT BRING UP THE ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD ITSELF.

THE IDEA IS KIND OF THIS OPTIMUM NUMBER OF, YOU KNOW, STABILITY AND DISTRESSED HOUSING PRIME FOR THAT KIND OF POLICY AND STRATEGY BUT MY QUESTION IS HOW WOULD THIS BE CARRIED OUT?

ARE PRIVATE DEVELOPERS GETTING THE MONEY TO BUILD NEW HOUSES?

WHAT DOES THE STRATEGY LOOK LIKE?

>> BRIEFLY, CHAD.

>> I THINK IT'S A BAD IDEA BUT 0.4% OF THE CITY'S BUDGET SO I DON'T CARE.

[LAUGHTER] YOU WANT TO DO AN EXPERIMENT, GO FOR IT, SYRACUSE.

>> BUT NOW THIS HAS BEEN DONE IN OTHER PLACES, RIGHT, AND IT DID LEAD TO... >> DON'T GIVE ME AN ANECDOTE ABOUT DES MOINES, IOWA.

INVEST IN THE PEOPLE, NOT IN THE HOUSING.

TRAIN PEOPLE TO WILL BEING ELECTRICIANS, PLUMBERS, CARPENTERS SO THERE IS A GREATER SUPPLY OF SERVICES THAT CAN UPKEEP HOUSES.

>> TO AS AND EVERIES AND SARAH YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO GOVERNOR RON DeSANTIS WHO SIGNED THE NATION'S FIRST OFFICIAL BAN ON CULTIVATED MEAT.

I KNOW THE ISSUE OF LAB GROWN MEAT WAS DISCUSSED ON "THE IVORY TOWER" LAST MONTH BUT I CAN'T GET OVER THE ABSURD AT THIS OF THIS SIDE SHOW IN AMERICA'S CULTURE WARS.

IT'S HARDLY READY FOR PRIME TIME AND HE IS PREEMPTIVELY BANNING IT.

LIKE SO MANY REPUBLICAN POLITICIANS THESE DAYS, DeSANTIS ISN'T INTERESTED IN SOLVING REAL PROBLEMS.

INSTEAD HE RAILS AGAINST PHANTOM THREATS LIKE LAB IMROAN MEAT AND ELECTRIC STOVES TO SCORE POLITICAL POINTS NEGLECTING THE REAL ENVIRONMENTAL CHALLENGES FACING HIS STATE.

>> MY F GOES TO THE TERRIBLE POLICE REPRESSION ACROSS U.S.

UNIVERSITIES.

SLAMMING A JEWISH PROFESSOR, DISCHARGING WEAPON.

POLICE STOOD BY AND WATCHED PEOPLE GOING ON RAMPAGE AGAINST PEACEFUL PROTESTORS.

ALL WHILE WHATEVER WAS HAPPENING IN THIS SCENARIO, IF IT WAS ANY OTHER PLACE IN THE WORLD, WE WOULD HAVE WRITTEN, OH LOOK AT THIS REGIME UNLEASHING A WAVE OF PROPAGANDA AND STATE VIOLENCE IN A SEPARATE ATTEMPT TO CONTAIN A WAVE OF PROTESTS.

THERE YOU GO, AMERICA.

>> TARA.

>> MY F GOES TO STATE REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS SALES OF ALABAMA.

RECENTLY ALABAMA PASSED H.B.-367 GIVING STATE EMPLOYEES THE OPTION OF TAKING JUNETEENTH OFF AS A STATE HOLIDAY.

THAT SOUNDS GREAT.

THE PROBLEM IS THEY'RE REQUIRED TO CHOOSE BETWEEN EITHER JEFFERSON DAVIS DAY OR JUNETEENTH.

>> CHAD.

>> SO FORBES ARTICLE THIS WEEK TAUGHT ME THAT OVER HALF OF U.S. STATES HAVE LAWS THAT HOLD CHILDREN FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CARE OF THEIR SENIOR PARENTS.

UNFORTUNATELY THESE ARE SCARECROW LAWS THAT ARE RARELY ENFORCED BUT ARE STILL ON THE BOOKS TO SERVE AS A WARNING.

PENNSYLVANIA IS THE ONLY STATE TO ENFORCE THESE LAWS IN THE LAST 25 YEARS.

BUT ALL THAT COULD CHANGE AS BOOMERS AGE.

UNFORTUNATELY PENNSYLVANIA IS NOW TRYING TO PREVENT THAT WITH A BILL THAT WOULD STOP BANKRUPTING MIDDLE AGED CHILDREN.

I HOPE OTHER STATES FOLLOW SUIT.

>> MY A GOES TO THE NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION CALLED FREEDOM READS FOUND BID REGINALD DWAYNE BETS FORMERLY INCARCERATED MAN WHO RELIED ON BOOKS TO KEEP HIM SANE DURING HIS NINE YEAR PRISON SENTENCE.

HE BUILDS SMALL LIBRARIES IN PRISON CELL BLOCKS CREATING A SPACE WHERE THE PRISONERS CAN GATHER AND EXPERIENCE IN HIS WORDS, THE FREEDOM TO THINK.

>> ANIRBAN.

>> MY A GOES TO THE RABBIS FROM AN ORGANIZATION RABBIS FOR PEACE THAT QUOTED ARREST IN GAZA TRYING TO BRING FOOD TO PALESTINIANS CLAIMING ISRAEL IS USING STARVATION AS A WEAPON OF WAR.

ONE MEMBER OF THE GROUP EMPHASIZED THAT HER MILDLY UNCOMFORTABLE ARREST PALES IN COMPARISON TO THE REPRESSION IN THE.

>> MY A TO ED WHITE PICTURED ON YOUR SCREEN WHICH SUPPORTS PUTTING CITIZEN ASTRONAUTS INTO SPACE.

HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE FIRST BLACK ASTRONAUT.

UNFORTUNATELY RACISM PREVENTED THAT SO NOW HE IS BETTING TO GO TO SPACE THANKS TO THAT ORGANIZATION.

>> CHAD.

THE ONONDAGA SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT CENTER RECENTLY ANNOUNCED THIS YEAR'S SMALL BUSINESS OF THE YEAR AWARDS WHICH YOU CAN FIND ON THEIR WEBSITE.

BUT A SPECIAL SHOUT OUT TO MADISON COUNTY WINNERS FLOWER AND SALT, ONE OF THEE HAMILTON ESTABLISHMENTS OPERATED BY COLGATE ALUMS.

AS TO THEM FOR THE JOY THEY BRING TO OUR VILLAGE AND THE SBDC AND MELISSA DAISTLES FOR PROVIDING GUIDANCE WHEN THE BAKERY WAS LAUNCH.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, YOU CAN DO SO ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, AND FOR ALL OF US AT "THE IVORY TOWER."

HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

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