FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION AND THE NEEPER NATURAL HISTORY PROGRAMMING FUND FOR KNME-TV.

AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, WHAT THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT SOCIAL STUDIES CURRICULUM CHANGES ARE REALLY ALL ABOUT.

COSTALES: EVERY SINGLE STUDENT, RIGHT, IS CARED FOR IN THE CLASSROOM, IN THE CLASSROOM DISCOURSE, IN THE LESSON PLANS THAT ARE DEVELOPED.

Gene: PLUS HOW A NEW APPROACH TO WATER MANAGEMENT IN NEW MEXICO COULD MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

JULIA BERNAL'S PERSPECTIVE ON WATER PLANNING COMES FROM BOTH INDIGENOUS AND FEMININE PERSPECTIVE.

SHE SITS DOWN WITH ENVIRONMENT REPORTER LAURA PASKUS THIS WEEK TO EXPLAIN HOW HER APPROACH DIFFERS AND WHAT EXACTLY THE, QUOTE, WATER BACK MOVEMENT MEANS.

THE LINE PANEL WILL ALSO WEIGH IN ON THE ONGOING SPIKE IN COVID CASES IN NEW MEXICO AND A HISTORIC STATE SUPREME COURT RULING OVER THE GOVERNOR'S AUTHORITY TO SPEND FEDERAL COVID RELIEF FUNDS, PLUS, REACTION TO SOME MAJOR CHANGES IN GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM'S ADMINISTRATION.

UP FIRST, WE GO BACK TO CLASS ON THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT'S UPDATING OF THE SOCIAL STUDIES STANDARDS.

THOSE STANDARDS HAVEN'T BEEN REVISED IN OVER A DECADE BUT THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE ACROSS THE STATE WHO WORRY THIS UPDATE IS JUST A COVER FOR IMPLEMENTING CRITICAL RACE THEORY TENETS INTO THE SCHOOLS.

OTHERS FEEL LIKE THE CHANGES ARE LONG OVERDUE AND BOTH SIDES SHOWED UP IN FORCE LAST FRIDAY FOR A SIX-HOUR LONG PUBLIC HEARING TO OFFER THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS BEFORE PED MAKES A FINAL DECISION SOME TIME NEXT MONTH.

THE CURRENT RULE AS IT IS WRITTEN IS GIVING A LOT OF POWER TO ONE PERSON.

THERE IS NO CHECKS AND BALANCES, AND THERE IS NO EXPLANATIONS.

THIS HAS CAUSED GREAT CONCERN ACROSS THE COMMUNITY ESPECIALLY THE AGE LEVEL AT WHICH MANY OF THE ETHNIC, CULTURAL AND IDENTITY FAVORED PROPOSED TO BE INTRODUCED.

IT'S A FIRST STEP, FIRST STEP BECAUSE THERE IS STILL MUCH TO INCLUDE IN TERMS OF THE TRIBAL KNOWLEDGE WE ALL HAVE.

WE HAVE NEEDED SOME REVISIONS FOR MANY YEARS.

MUCH HAS HAPPENED IN BOTH THE STATE, THE U.S. AND THE WORLD THAT IS EXCLUDED.

MANY PEOPLE ARE EXCLUDED EXCEPT FOR THE VIEWPOINT OF THE, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, CONQUERORS.

THE ADDED ETHNIC, CULTURAL AND IDENTITY STUDY STANDARDS IN ALMOST EVERY GRADE LEVEL, LEAVE OPEN A CLEAR AND DEFINITIVE LINE BETWEEN US AND THEM.

I AM INCREDIBLY CONCERNED THAT THE IDENTITY SECTIONS OF THESE STANDARDS HAVEN'T BEEN DEVELOPED IN A WAY THAT WILL ENCOMPASS EVERYONE.

I WORRY THIS LEAVES US WITH THE SAME PROBLEM WE HAVE HAD ALL ALONG, WHICH IS MARGINALIZING OTHERS.

I FEEL OUR EDUCATORS NEED MUCH MORE TRAINING AND EDUCATION OF THEIR OWN TO EFFECTIVELY TEACH THESE NEW STANDARDS.

WHEN I REVIEW THE PROPOSALS THE STUDY STANDARDS CREATED I DID NOT SEE CURRICULUM THAT SPECIFICALLY TEACHES STUDENTS ABOUT CRITICAL RACE THEORY BUT RATHER STANDARDS THAT SIMPLY COVERS THE BASICS OF RACIAL AND MARGINALIZED HISTORY OF AMERICA.

THIS MOVEMENT TO APPEAL TO CURRENT SOCIAL STUDIES STANDARDS IS BASED ON THE CONCERN THAT THERE IS A BIAS TOWARDS RACIAL PRECEDENT OR LIBERAL THEMES IS A TRAGEDY THAT WORKS TO UPHOLD THE STANDARD OF BLINDNESS AND IGNORANCE IN THE ACCURATE TELLING OF AMERICAN HISTORY.

IT FOCUSES ON INEQUALITY.

I ALSO FOUND THE STANDARDS FOCUS ON DIFFERENCES INSTEAD OF SIMILARITIES.

THE STANDARDS ARE NEGATIVE, THEY ARE DIVISIVE AND THEY ENCOURAGE MINORITY CHILDREN TO BE VICTIMS INSTEAD OF EMPOWERING CHILDREN AND OTHER CHILDREN ARE TAUGHT THEY ARE OPPRESSORS, ALL BASED ON COLOR OF THEIR SKIN.

AS A MOTHER OF THREE WHITE BOYS IN THIS CULTURE, I THINK IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT MY SONS LEARN THE FULL TRUTH OF THE HISTORY OF THE U.S. AND NEW MEXICO AND THAT THEY LEARN ABOUT PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT CULTURES AND DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES THAN THEIR OWN.

THE STANDARDS WILL PROVIDE FOR A MORE ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF OUR COMPLEX HISTORY AND ALLOW STUDENTS TO DEVELOP THE SPECIFIC AND ANALYTICAL THINKING SKILLS ESSENTIAL WITH DRIVING OUR DIVERSE SOCIETY.

TO UNDERSTAND CIVIC GOVERNANCE AND POWER, STUDENTS NEED TO UNDERSTAND DIFFERENT CULTURES AND OBSERVATIONS THAT DIVERSITY HAS HAD ON THE STATE AND NATION WE LIVE IN TODAY.

RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN PEOPLE, FACES AND ENVIRONMENTS AND THE INTERCONNECTIONS OF MOST INDIVIDUALS, GROUPS AND INSTITUTIONS NEEDS TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED.

THIS IS THE RIGHT MOVE THAT THE PUBLIC EDUCATION DEPARTMENT IS GOING FORWARD WITH A NEW SOCIAL STUDIES CURRICULUM.

I FULLY SUPPORT THIS DECISION.

THIS IS WAY OVERDUE.

THERE HAS BEEN PLENTY OF TIME FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS AND THE TIME IS RIGHT NOW FOR OUR CHILDREN TO BE SEEN AND HEARD, OUR BI CHILDREN, OUR LGBTQ, OUR A PLUS CHILDREN ARE PART OF OUR COMMUNITIES.

THEY ARE NOT POLITICAL STATEMENTS.

THEY ARE HUMAN.

THEY DESERVE TO BE IN A SAFE ACADEMIC ENVIRONMENT WHERE THEY ARE SEEN AND WHERE THEY CAN RECOGNIZE THEMSELVES.

Gene: YOU CAN WATCH THE FULL PUBLIC COMMENTS HEARING, IF YOU'RE SO INCLINED, BY HEADING TO THE WEBSITE, NEWMEXICOINFOCUS.ORG.

IT IS CLEAR THAT FOLKS ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS DEBATE HAVE STRONG CONVICTIONS, BUT WHAT ARE THESE CURRICULUM CHANGES ALL ABOUT, REALLY?

WHY DOES PED FEEL THEY ARE IMPORTANT?

I CAUGHT UP WITH JACQUELINE COSTALES FROM THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT RECENTLY ON FACEBOOK LIVE TO LEARN MORE.

WE ARE PLEASED TO BE JOINED BY JACQUELINE COSTALES, DIRECTOR OF NEW MEXICO PUBLIC EDUCATION DEPARTMENT'S CURRICULUM AND INSTRUCTION DIVISION.

WELCOME JACQUELINE.

APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

Costales: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

I AM HAPPY TO BE HERE.

Gene: WE APPRECIATE IT.

LET'S START WITH THE NUTS AND BOLTS.

ACCORDING TO INFORMATION PUT OUT BY YOUR DEPARTMENT, THESE CHANGES ARE MEANT TO ADDRESS, QUOTE HERE, INCREASINGLY DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES AND HISTORIES OF PEOPLES OF NEW MEXICO.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN EXACTLY HOW THOSE PERSPECTIVES MANIFEST THEMSELVES IN THE K THROUGH 12 EDUCATION PROGRAM?

Costales: SURE.

SO, OUR GOAL FOR THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THE NEW MEXICO SOCIAL STUDIES STANDARD IS TO CREATE STANDARDS THAT ARE CULTURALLY RESPONSIVE AND THAT FOCUS ON THE KNOWLEDGE, SKILLS AND DISPOSITION TO ENSURING ALL STUDENTS IN THE STATE ARE COLLEGE CAREER AND CIVIC READY.

THE REVISIONS PROVIDE A FRAMEWORK FOR INTRODUCING HISTORICALLY ACCURATE INFORMATION IN OUR SOCIAL STUDIES CLASSROOMS, CURRICULUM FOR IMPLEMENTING THESE STANDARD.

SO, HOW STUDENTS WILL MEET AND ACHIEVE THE LEARNING GOALS ARTICULATED THEREIN WILL BE DETERMINED AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.

A STANDARD IS LIKE AN UMBRELLA AND THEN CURRICULUM IS INCLUSIVE OF THE INDIVIDUAL LESSONS AND PLANS AND THE MATERIALS THAT ARE CHOSEN BY THE SCHOOLS WITHIN EACH COMMUNITY.

Gene: I'M CURIOUS, WHEN DID THE IDEA COME ABOUT TO MAKE THESE CHANGES?

WHY NOW FOR PED?

Costales: THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

SO, I WOULD SAY SORT OF THE NATIONAL BEST PRACTICE ACROSS ALL THE STATES IS TO REDEVELOP STANDARDS EVERY 10 TO 15 YEARS, RIGHT IN THERE.

THESE STANDARDS HAVE NOT, OUR SOCIAL STUDIES STANDARDS, HAVE NOT UNDERGONE A SIGNIFICANT REVISION FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS.

SO, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED JUST SINCE THE TURN OF THE CENTURY, IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE UPDATE THE STANDARD, BOTH IN TERMS OF THE HISTORICAL FACTS THAT HAVE BEEN ADDED TO THAT TAPESTRY, TO THE HISTORY, BUT, ALSO TO ASSURE, AGAIN, THAT OUR STUDENTS ARE BEING ASKED TO PRACTICE AS THEY GROW FROM FIVE YEAR OLDS IN KINDERGARTEN ALL THE WAY UP TO GRADUATION, IN THOSE AREAS.

OUR STUDENTS JUST QUITE FRANKLY IT IS TIME.

THEY DESERVE TO HAVE UPDATED STANDARDS THAT CHALLENGE THEIR THINKING AND ACTUALLY OUR TEACHERS, OUR TEACHERS REALLY LOOK TO US TO ASSURE THAT WHAT THEY ARE TEACHING IS THE MOST UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION.

I THINK IT WAS A COMBINATION OF ALL OF THAT.

Gene: THE PROCESS AND WHO IS BEHIND THE CHANGES, MY UNDERSTANDING IS A LOT OF TEACHERS THEMSELVES WERE PART OF THIS PROCESS, STATE-WIDE.

TELL US ABOUT THAT.

Costales: THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT, GENE.

SO, ACTUALLY IT HAS BEEN ABOUT A 16-MONTH PROCESS UP TO NOW.

WE STARTED ACTUALLY WITH A VISIONING COMMITTEE OF EXPERTS FROM ACROSS THE STATE, HIGHER ED, TRIBAL EDUCATION LEADERS, VARIOUS MUSEUM-BASED EXPERTS.

THOSE PEOPLE THAT REALLY ARE ENTRENCHED AND CONSIDERED EXPERTS IN THE FIELD OF THE SOCIAL SCIENCES.

AND THEY FIRST HELPED US TO DEVELOP AND BEGIN OUR VISIONING FOR THE STATE UPDATE.

THEN, ONCE THAT STARTED, WE LAUNCHED APPLICATION FOR K 12 EDUCATORS ACROSS THE STATE, SO TEACHERS, ADMINISTRATORS, PRINCIPALS, ANY OF THE EDUCATORS THAT WERE INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING WHO APPLIED.

THEY SHARED INFORMATION IN THE APPLICATION ABOUT THEIR CONTENT EXPERTISE, THEIR EXPERTISE AND EXPERIENCE IN REVISING CURRICULUM OR STANDARDS, AND THEIR CLASSROOM EXPERIENCES.

SO, 64 WERE CHOSEN TO BE PART OF OUR WRITING COMMITTEE AND THEY HAVE EXPERTISE AT ALL LEVELS K TO 12 AND THEY REPRESENT ALL OF THE GEOGRAPHICAL AREAS OF NEW MEXICO.

Gene: THE NEW CODE OF STANDARDS ARE DESIGNED TO TEACH TOPICS IN, AND I AM GOING TO QUOTE AGAIN, DEVELOPMENTALLY APPROPRIATE WAYS.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT THAT MEANS.

I WANT TO GET INTO SOME OF THE PUSH BACK YOU'RE RECEIVING.

WHAT DOES THAT EXACTLY MEAN WHEN YOU SAY THAT TO SOMEBODY, A PARENT OR SOMEONE?

HOW ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO TAKE THAT IN?

Costales: SO, I THINK DEVELOPMENTALLY APPROPRIATE MEANS THAT IT IS AIMED AT THE AGE LEVEL OF THE STUDENTS WITHIN THEIR, YOU KNOW, THE PLACE WHERE THEY ARE IN THEIR GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT.

SO, I THINK IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS THAT TRANSLATES USUALLY TO THE GRADE LEVEL THEY ARE AT.

SO, WE CAN TAKE SOME OF THE MAJOR CONCEPTS AND CONTEXT THAT IS WRITTEN INTO THE STANDARDS AND ACTUALLY THAT IS THE MAGIC THAT THE TEACHER, THE EDUCATOR DOES.

SO WE CAN TAKE A TOPIC, MAJOR STRANDS AND ANCHORS IN THE STANDARDS, LIKE CIVICS, ECONOMICS, GEOGRAPHY HISTORY AND CREATE LESSONS AND CLASSROOM INVOLVEMENT ACTIVITY, PROJECTS, ASSIGNMENTS, SO ON AND SO FORTH THAT IS AIMED AT THE LEVEL THAT THE STUDENT IS CURRENTLY AT.

Gene: YOU MENTIONED BEFORE THE FOUR MAIN PILLARS WE KNOW ABOUT FROM EARLIER YEARS IN SCHOOL, CIVICS, ECONOMICS, GEOGRAPHY AND HISTORY.

THIS OTHER LEG, STATE WANTS TO ADD ETHNIC, CULTURAL AND IDENTITY STUDIES AS WELL.

I THINK FOR A LOT OF FOLKS THAT IDENTITY STUDIES IS PROBABLY THE HANG UP.

I AM CURIOUS ABOUT THE KIND OF FEEDBACK YOU'RE GETTING.

YOU HAVE OPENED UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS, HEARING FROM FOLKS WHO ARE UNCOMFORTABLE.

IS THERE A COMMON THREAD OF WHAT YOU'RE HEARING OF COMFORT OR DISCOMFORT FOR FOLKS WHO ARE NOT SO CRAZY ABOUT THIS IDEA SO FAR.

Costales: I THINK WE ARE GETTING COMMENTS FOR SURE.

WHAT I AM HEARING AS I READ, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE OVER 1100 PAGES OF WRITTEN FEEDBACK.

SO, WE ARE DEDICATED TO READING EVERY SINGLE WORD AND HAVE BEEN AS IT COMES IN.

WHAT I REALLY SEE IS THE CARE AND THE UNITY WE HAVE IN THE STATE AROUND HOW WE EDUCATE OUR STUDENTS AND FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, I REALLY VALUE THAT INFORMATION.

YES, THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE THE -- BECAUSE IT IS NOT -- IT HASN'T BEEN SOMETHING -- IT WASN'T PRESENT PERHAPS WHEN I WAS IN KINDERGARTEN A GAZILLION YEARS AGO IN THE 70'S.

WE WERE LEARNING THOSE VERY SPECIFIC STRANDS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE.

HOWEVER, THE EXPERIENCES AND THE HISTORICAL STORIES DID ADDRESS THOSE THINGS.

IF YOU JUST THINK ABOUT THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, IT WAS IN THERE.

SO THE STRAND OF ETHNIC, CULTURAL AND IDENTITY STUDY, SUPPORTS US IN ASSURING, IT IS A LIKE A CHECK MARK IN ASSURING THAT ALL OF OUR STUDENTS, EVERY SINGLE STUDENT, RIGHT, IS CARED FOR IN THE CLASSROOM, IN THE CLASSROOM DISCOURSE, IN THE LESSON PLANS THAT ARE DEVELOPED BY TEACHERS AND IN THE MATERIALS CHOSEN.

AND THEN IN TERMS OF THE INQUIRY STRANDS, THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL IN OUR AIM TO ASSURE THAT OUR STUDENTS ARE READY FOR COLLEGE AND CAREER READINESS.

I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT SOMETHING, I WOULDN'T SAY -- I THINK IT IS INCIDENTAL IS A NICE WAY TO DESCRIBE IT, BUT WE ARE AT A TIME WHERE THE STATE HAS HAD TO RECOGNIZE WHAT HAS BEEN FOUND IN THE YAZZI MARTINEZ CASE.

AND WHAT WAS FOUND IS THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN SUBGROUPS OF OUR STUDENTS THAT HAVEN'T HAD THE ACCESS TO BEING COLLEGE AND CAREER READY THAT EACH SUBGROUP SHOULD DESERVE AND THOSE SUBGROUPS THAT WERE LISTED INCLUDED OUR NATIVE AMERICAN STUDENTS, OUR ENGLISH LANGUAGE LEARNERS, OUR STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES, OUR LOW SOCIOECONOMIC STUDENTS.

IT COVERS A VAST SORT OF LANDSCAPE OF OUR STUDENT BODY ACROSS THE STATE AND THOSE TWO STRANDS INCIDENTALLY ACTUALLY SUPPORT AND ASSURE THAT EVERY SINGLE STUDENT CAN RECOGNIZE THEMSELVES IN THE CLASSROOM, CAN RECOGNIZE THE HISTORY THAT HAS OCCURRED, BOTH THE GOOD AND THE BAD.

NOT EVERY PIECE OF HISTORY ABOUT OUR INCREDIBLE COUNTRY IS POSITIVE, RIGHT?

THERE ARE SOME DARK STORIES TO BE TOLD IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY BUT THERE IS ALSO SOME GLORIOUS STORIES.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THROUGH THAT INQUIRY STRAND THAT STUDENTS HAVE THE ABILITY TO TAKE IN INFORMATION, TO DECIPHER IT, TO DIGEST IT, TO COMMUNICATE WITH OTHERS ABOUT IT, TO SHARE THEIR OPINION, TO LISTEN TO THE OPINIONS OF OTHER STUDENTS.

AGAIN, ALL IN A DEVELOPMENTALLY APPROPRIATE WAY.

Gene: WHAT DO YOU SAY TO FOLKS OUT THERE WHO SAY THIS IS TURNING HISTORY POLITICAL, THAT THIS IS TEACHING KIDS HOW TO HATE OUR COUNTRY, HOW TO TAKE SOME OF THE DARK THINGS YOU MENTIONED BEFORE AND MAKE THAT THE POINT OF OUR HISTORY INSTEAD OF GOOD STUFF?

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THE PARENTS WHO FEEL -- AND THERE IS A QUOTE ABOUT THIS -- IT IS TILTING TOWARDS PROGRESSIVES.

DOES PED HAVE AN ANSWER TO THAT?

Costales: WELL, YEAH.

I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD SAY WE HAVE AN ANSWER TO THAT.

I THINK THAT AS A STATE-WIDE COMMUNITY WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER AND ACTUALLY THERE IS NOTHING IN ANY SET OF STANDARDS, SOCIAL STUDIES OR OTHERWISE, WHERE WE WOULD SEE AS ONE OF THE OUTCOMES SOME KIND OF SLANT SORT OF AGAINST OUR COUNTRY.

THAT IS NOT THE PURPOSE OF THIS.

THE PURPOSE IS TO ASSURE THAT ALL STUDENTS ARE RECOGNIZED AS AND EXPOSED TO AND ARE THE STORY OF ALL PEOPLES OF OUR STATE, OUR COUNTRY AND OF THE WORLD.

THERE IS, I DON'T WANT TO SAY, TWO SIDES TO EVERY STORY BECAUSE I BELIEVE HISTORICAL DATA IS FACTUAL, BUT THERE ARE DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.

IF YOU WOULD HAVE ASKED SOMEONE FROM ENGLAND HOW THEY FELT ABOUT OUR REVOLUTION, THEIR OPINION WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY DIFFERENT THAN THE COLONISTS.

A SET HISTORICAL FACTS NO DOUBT, BUT THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN TWO UNDERSTANDINGS ABOUT HOW THOSE EVENTS UNRAVELED.

THAT IS JUST SORT OF A GENERAL EXAMPLE THAT WE CAN ALL RELATE TO GIVEN THE FOUNDING OF OUR COUNTRY.

BUT ALL OF HISTORY SORT OF NEEDS TO HAVE THAT APPROACH AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT STUDENTS CAN HAVE CIVIL DISCOURSE IN A DEVELOPMENTALLY APPROPRIATE WAY SO THAT THEIR PRACTICE WHEN THEY ENTER INTO ADULT LIVES, WHETHER THEY CHOOSE COLLEGE OR CAREER, AND THEY ARE INFORMED, PARTICIPATING CITIZENS THAT CAN VOTE THEIR MIND AND THEIR HEART AND BE ASSURED THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THE TOPICS OF THE DAY.

Gene: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

Costales: THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.

AND WE WANT TO GET SOME MORE THOUGHTS ON THIS CURRICULUM DEBATE WITH THIS WEEK'S VIRTUAL LINE OPINION PANEL.

BACK WITH US IS LINE REGULAR AND FORMER STATE SENATOR, DEDE FELDMAN.

WE WELCOME BACK TOM GARRITY OF THE GARRITY GROUP PUBLIC RELATIONS, AND DAVE MULRYAN IS BACK IN OUR ZOOM ROOM.

HE IS THE FOUNDER OF THE ORGANIZATION, YOU MIGHT KNOW OF, EVERYBODY VOTES.

LET'S GET RIGHT TO THE MEAT OF WHAT IS A HOT BUTTON ISSUE NOT JUST IN NEW MEXICO BUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THE LOADED PHRASE OF QUOTE, CRITICAL RACE THEORY, END QUOTE, IS BANDIED ABOUT ON A REGULAR BASIS.

SIMPLE QUESTION, TOM, IS THAT WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE IN NEW MEXICO AS WELL?

Tom: IT IS DEFINITELY GETTING A LOT OF DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW.

OBVIOUSLY THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE CURRENT PUBLIC EDUCATION SECRETARY, KURT STEINHAUS, REALLY WANTS TO BE ABLE TO INCLUDE IN THE CONVERSATION.

IT WAS AN ISSUE THAT WAS ACTUALLY STARTED ABOUT 16 MONTHS AGO AND THROUGH THAT WE WERE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, SEE A COUPLE DIFFERENT TRANSITIONS IN THE PUBLIC EDUCATION DEPARTMENT, BUT THESE PRIORITY OF UPDATING THE SOCIAL STUDIES CURRICULUM WERE MADE SO KURT STEINHAUS RUNS A GOOD SHOP.

I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF GOOD CONVERSATION.

WHAT IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT TO HAVE IN THESE TYPES OF SITUATIONS IS BALANCE.

WE NEED TO HAVE A BALANCED DISCUSSION.

I DON'T THINK THIS IS A TIME TO MAKE UP FOR LOST TIME.

BECAUSE, THERE IS A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, REALLY IMPORTANT INFORMATION THAT NEEDS TO BE UPDATED IN THE SOCIAL STUDY CURRICULUM AND I THINK THAT CALM MINDS NEED TO PREVAIL BECAUSE I CAN SEE EASILY, AS WE HAVE ALREADY SEEN, HOW THESE CONVERSATIONS CAN FURTHER DIVIDE OUR STATE AND PEOPLE'S PERCEPTIONS ON PUBLIC EDUCATION.

Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

DEDE A STRAIGHT UP QUESTION.

CRITICS CONTEND THAT PED IS TRYING TO CODIFY THIS CRT.

ARE THEY RIGHT?

Dede: THESE ARE REGULATIONS.

THESE ARE NOT LAWS.

SO, THE ANSWER IS NO.

THERE IS NO CODIFICATION HERE AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION DOES REGULARLY AND IT IS GOOD THAT IT IS PERIODICALLY REVIEWED SO THAT IT CAN BE UPDATED.

WE NEED TO UPDATE OUR SCIENCE CURRICULUM, OUR SOCIAL STUDIES CURRICULUM, AND IT IS AMAZING HOW POLITICIZED THIS HAS BECOME.

IT SHOULD BE ROUTINE.

BUT, DUE TO, I THINK, THE NATIONAL CLIMATE AND THE DEFINITE ATTEMPT BY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO DEMONSTRATE OUTSIDE OF THE PED BUILDING AND TO MAKE THIS INTO ANOTHER WEDGE ISSUE, I THINK, WHAT SHOULD BE ROUTINE HAS NOW BECOME CONTROVERSIAL.

Gene: DAVID, DEDE MENTIONED THE STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS LEADING THE CHARGE HERE ON THIS, BUT THE FEEDBACK WAS SPLIT DOWN THE MIDDLE.

IS CHAIRMAN PEARCE JUST TRYING TO GET SOMETHING GOING HERE, DRUM UP THE BASE.

Dave: WE NEVER KNOW WHAT SOMEONE'S MOTIVES ARE, BUT I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA THAT WE NEED TO REFRESH AND TO LOOK AT CURRICULUM IS A GOOD POINT BUT THE BIGGER OVERRIDING OR OVERARCHING ISSUE HERE IS, AND WE SAW IT IN THE ELECTIONS IN VIRGINIA, WHEN SOMEONE CLAIMS TO HAVE ONE SET OF VALUES, TAKES A POSITION AND AUTOMATICALLY CAUSES SOMEONE THAT HAS ANOTHER SET OF VALUES, REPUBLICAN VERSUS DEMOCRAT, TO TAKE THE OPPOSITE POSITION.

I MEAN, WE INSTINCTIVELY HAVE THIS IDEA, IF YOU DO THIS, THEN I MUST DO THIS.

WE CAN'T ALL JUST BE A BLACK KEY OR A WHITE KEY ON A PIANO.

THEY WORK TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THIS WHOLE IDEA, SOMEHOW WE NEED TO STOP SAYING, BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE IN THESE THINGS, I NOW BELIEVE IN THESE, YOU KNOW.

NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO BE REACTION.

THERE ARE FACTS.

THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO AGREE UPON THAT ARE NOT JUST AN OPINION BASED ON WHERE YOU ARE SITUATED POLITICALLY.

I MEAN, IT IS ABSURD.

CURRICULUM, ALTHOUGH I WILL TELL YOU, I AM A GREAT BELIEVER IN TEACHERS' ABILITY TO TEACH WHAT THEY BELIEVE TO BE THE BEST THING.

THEY ARE TRAINED PROFESSIONALS.

THEY ARE THE KING AND QUEEN OF THAT CLASSROOM.

I THINK THEY DESERVE OUR RESPECT TO DO THE RIGHT THING BECAUSE I THINK THE MAJORITY OF THEM REALLY DO.

THIS IDEA THAT CURRICULUM SHOULD BE TOP DOWN, I AGREE THERE SHOULD BE SOME STANDARDS THAT EVERYBODY LEARNS NATIONWIDE, YES.

I THAT ALSO TEACHERS REALLY SHOULD BE THE ULTIMATE DECIDER ON WHAT GETS TAUGHT.

Gene: GO AHEAD, DEDE.

Dede: I CAN'T RESIST BECAUSE I USED TO TEACH HISTORY IN HIGH SCHOOL LONG AGO AND FAR AWAY.

AND THE TEACHERS DO HAVE A CRITICAL ROLE TO PLAY BUT THEY MUST BE ALLOWED TO PRESENT ALL THE FACTS AND, YOU KNOW, NOT OMIT SOME OF THE FACTS THAT HAVE BEEN OMITTED IN THE PAST.

I MEAN, I NEVER LEARNED ABOUT SOJOURNER TRUTH.

I NEVER LEARNED ABOUT IDA BEA WELLS OR CHIEF JOSEPH OR ANY OF THOSE PEOPLE.

SO, I THINK A TEACHER'S ROLE HERE IS TO PRESENT THE WIDEST RANGE OF FACTS AND OPINIONS AND TEACH THEIR STUDENTS HOW TO DETERMINE WHAT IS A FACT, WHAT IS AN OPINION AND THIS KIND OF CRITICAL AND ANALYTICAL THINKING IS WHAT WE REALLY NEED IN OUR SCHOOLS NOW.

NOT THE KNEE JERK, NOT THE BALANCE WHERE ONE SIDE HAS EQUAL WEIGHT TO THE OTHER, BUT A CRITICAL FACILITY.

Gene: INTERESTING.

TOM, PED WAS ONLY REQUIRED TO TAKE PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR 30 DAYS, EXTENDED TO 45 DAYS.

THEY STAYED ONLINE FOR LAST FRIDAY'S PUBLIC COMMENTS UNTIL EVERYONE WAS HEARD, LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES, BUT EVERYBODY GOT HEARD.

IS IT FAIR?

WAS THERE ENOUGH TIME?

WAS THERE ENOUGH PUBLIC COMMENT IN YOUR VIEW?

DO THEY HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO MAKE A GOOD DECISION HERE?

Tom: I THINK THEY DEFINITELY HAVE INPUT.

WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE FEEL LIKE IT WAS ENOUGH TIME OR TOO MUCH TIME, I THINK THAT REALLY DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU STAND, NOT YOU SPECIFICALLY, BUT WHERE THE PUBLIC STANDS ON THE ISSUES DEBATED.

THOSE WHO DON'T WANT THE CHANGES PROBABLY SAY NOT ENOUGH PUBLIC INPUT, THOSE WHO DO WANT CHANGES WOULD PROBABLY ARGUE JUST THE OPPOSITE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IN SOME WAYS, YOU KNOW, I MEAN IT WAS NEEDED PUBLIC INPUT.

I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK THAT THE PROCESS IS ONE THAT THERE IS INPUT THAT IS PROVIDED, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, WEIGH IN AND SOMETIMES IT LOOKS ALMOST AS IF THERE ARE STATE AGENCIES THAT WILL JUST DO THIS TO CHECK A BOX INSTEAD OF SEEKING GENUINE INPUT.

WHEN YOU HAVE THESE KIND OF, CALL, EVERYBODY SAY YOUR OPINIONS AND EVERYBODY GO IN PEACE TYPE STUFF, IT IS HARD TO DETERMINE IF ANY OF THAT IS REALLY BEING ABSORBED AND ADAPTED OR IF THEY ARE JUST REALLY SIMPLY CHECKING A BOX.

Gene: INTERESTING QUESTION THERE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT JACQUELINE COSTALES BROUGHT UP IN THE INTERVIEW IS HOW THE YAZZI MARTINEZ CASE IMPACTS ALL OF THIS.

NEW MEXICO COURTS FOUND THAT NEW MEXICO IS FAILING SOME ITS STUDENTS.

SHOULDN'T THE STATE MAKE SURE THOSE STUDENT'S HISTORIES ARE CODIFIED?

Dave: NO DOUBT.

WE SHOULD CODIFY THINGS AND LOOK LET'S BE REAL.

THE WORLD CHANGES, YOU KNOW.

DEDE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE THINGS SHE WAS NOT TAUGHT ABOUT OR THAT SHE TAUGHT WHEN SHE WAS TEAMING.

THE WORD GAY WAS NEVER MENTIONED IN ANY OF MY SOCIAL STUDIES CLASSES, SO, THE WORLD DOES CHANGE.

I THINK THAT THE ARGUMENT COULD BE MADE, WHAT WAS RELEVANT 50 YEARS AGO HAS CHANGED.

IF YOU'RE TEACHING SOCIAL STUDIES AND YOU'RE TAKING INTO THE MODERN GAY RIGHTS MOVEMENT AND THE WOMEN'S MOVEMENT AND ALL OF THESE THINGS, I DO THINK THAT THEY HAVE A PLACE.

I JUST FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, AT SOME POINT WE DO -- DO WE COLLECTIVELY BEND TO SOME AUTHORITY WE TRUST BECAUSE WE HAVE ELECTED THEM OR BECAUSE WE HAVE ELECTED PEOPLE THAT HAVE APPOINTED THEM.

DO WE TRUST SOMEBODY OR DO WE HAVE TO SIMPLY SECOND GUESS EVERY SINGLE THING WE LOOK AT IN TERMS OF POLITICS AND POLICY.

THAT IS THE BIGGER QUESTION.

Gene: I GOT TO REMIND, YOU, OF COURSE, WHEN WE TRY TO CHANGE THE SCIENCE -- Dede: I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY THAT.

IN 1997, 1998, WHEN I FIRST CAME INTO THE LEGISLATURE, THE BIG THING THAT WAS HAPPENING THEN WAS THERE WAS A CHALLENGE TO THE TEACHING OF SCIENCE.

AND THERE WERE PARENTS THAT CAME IN AND DID NOT -- AND WANTED CREATIONISM TO BE GIVEN EQUAL TIME IN THE NAME OF BALANCE TO EVOLUTIONARY THEORY.

THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE TO BEWARE OF BECAUSE THAT REJECTS SCIENCE IN FAVOR OF THE SQUEAKY WHEEL.

Gene: PICK UP ON THAT HERE.

SQUEAKY WHEEL PROBLEM OR DO WE HAVE A LEGIT ISSUE HERE?

Tom: I AM ONE WHO SUPPORTS BALANCE.

I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE SOCIAL STUDIES STANDARD SHOULD BE UPDATED BUT AS I STARTED OFF, I DON'T THINK IT NEEDS TO GO TO AN EXTREME ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL SIDES AND ALL VOICES ARE HEARD AT THE TABLE, ABSOLUTELY.

Gene: I HAVE GOT TO THROW IN MORE THAN 60 TEACHERS WERE IN ON THIS INVOLVED IN UPDATING THE STANDARDS, BUT OTHER TEACHERS SAID ON FRIDAY, RESOURCES, TIME, MONEY, HOW ARE WE GOING TO MANAGE ALL THIS?

IS THAT A FAIR CRITICISM?

Dave: ABSOLUTELY.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE SHOULD LOOK AT IS WILL THE SECOND PART OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAM GET PASSED?

WILL THERE BE RESOURCES FOR THE EDUCATION IN THIS KIND OF THING AND HOW ARE WE GOING TO SPEND THOSE RESOURCES.

I MEAN WE ARE GOING TO BE HAVING THIS TYPE OF DISCUSSION.

BASICALLY ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS BECAUSE IF ALL OF THIS COMES THROUGH, I MEAN, WHAT HAPPENS.

1.7 TRILLION IS GOING TO BE UP FOR GRABS.

LET'S NOT WASTE IT.

LET'S USE IT FOR GOOD THINGS, YOU KNOW.

IF WE HAVE TO, LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, I THINK THAT AGAIN, DEDE'S POINT ABOUT CREATIONISM VERSUS THE SCIENCE I THINK IS REALLY THE RELEVANT POINT HERE.

WE CAN'T GO CRAZY BUT IT SEEMS LIKE WE ALWAYS GO CRAZY LATELY, YOU KNOW.

WE LURCH THIS WAY AND THEN LURCH THAT WAY AND EVERYONE IS WHY IS EVERYONE LURCHING?

WE NEED TO STOP LURCHING.

Tom: IF I COULD ADD.

IF THESE UPDATES IN SOCIAL STUDIES STANDARDS ACTUALLY ENGAGE MORE STUDENTS TO GET THEM MORE INVOLVED AND HELP PROFICIENCY STANDARDS, I THINK THAT IS A VERY GOOD THING.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THAT IS THE ONE THING THAT NEW MEXICO STILL LACKS IS A POSITIVE GRADUATION RATE AND IF THIS HELPS THE GRADUATION RATE BY MAKING THINGS A LITTLE BIT MORE RELEVANT IN THE CLASSROOMS THEN I AM ALL FOR IT.

Gene: GOOD PLACE TO FINISH.

THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE ON THAT ISSUE BUT BACK IN A FEW MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT THE LATEST EFFORTS TO PUSH BACK THE COVID SURGE HAPPENING RIGHT HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

Bernal: ESPECIALLY HERE IN THE SOUTHWEST, IN A LOT OF THE MIDDLE RIO GRANDE, RIO GRANDE BASIN, IF THAT, PUEBLO PEOPLE HAVE BEEN STEWARDING, INHABITING AND BEING IN RELATION WITH OUR WATERWAYS SINCE TIME IMMEMORIAL.

Gene: COVID CASES IN NEW MEXICO ARE ONCE AGAIN RISING, ACCORDING THE MOST RECENT DATA FROM THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.

IN A PRESS CONFERENCE WEDNESDAY, GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM JOINED HEALTH LEADERS TO TALK ABOUT THE SITUATION AND DURING THAT UPDATE, HEALTH LEADERS POINTED TO A WANING IMMUNITY AMONG VACCINATED NEW MEXICANS AS ONE OF THE ISSUES.

THAT PUSHED THE STATE TO JOIN ONLY A FEW OTHERS AT THIS POINT MAKING BOOSTERS AVAILABLE TO ALL ADULTS.

THE GOVERNOR SAYS THEY HAVE BECOME VITAL TO CONTROLLING THE VIRUS AS CDC AND FDA WAGES NATIONWIDE APPROVAL.

WON'T HELP UNVACCINATED FOLKS, PUT THAT TO DEDE.

THERE IS A LOT OF SCIENCE OUT THERE SAYING THAT UNVACCINATED FOLKS, THE THING IS MUTATING, THINGS ARE HAPPENING, THEY ARE UNWITTINGLY SPREADING THIS.

HOW DO -- WHAT IS THE NEXT STEP HERE WHEN IT COMES TO UNVACCINATED FOLKS PARTICULARLY?

Dede: I THINK CONTINUED MASK MANDATES, I THINK, ESPECIALLY FOR UNVACCINATED PEOPLE ARE IMPORTANT.

BUT, OF COURSE, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO IS UNVACCINATED AND WHO IS VACCINATED.

BUT, I THINK THE STATISTICS ARE NOW THAT 23% OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE HOSPITALIZED HAVE BEEN FULLY VACCINATED.

SO, THAT IS THE PROBLEM NOW AND THAT IS WHY BOOSTERS HAVE BEEN OPENED UP TO EVERYONE.

I THINK THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

I GOT MY BOOSTER A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO AND I THINK THEY ARE PRETTY WIDELY AVAILABLE NOW.

I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO GET THEM.

I CONTINUE TO BE ALARMED BY THE RATE OF COVID-19 SPREAD AMONG CHILDREN.

THIS IS NOW ACCOUNTING FOR 25% OF COVID CASES.

SO, I THINK IN ADDITION TO GETTING BOOSTERS, CHILDREN HAVE TO BE VACCINATED AND I THINK THE STATISTICS THERE ARE THAT THERE IS ONLY 6% OF CHILDREN FROM FIVE TO 11 YEARS OLD HAVE BEEN VACCINATED SO WE HAVE WORK TO DO IN THAT POPULATION.

AS WELL AS WITH GETTING BOOSTERS TO EVERYONE WHO WANTS THEM, ANYWAY.

Gene: THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT REPORTING 73 PERCENT OF STATE RESIDENTS 18 AND OVER ARE FULLY VACCINATED AS YOU MENTIONED.

15% ALREADY HAVE RECEIVED A BOOSTER, 55% OF KIDS 12 TO 17 HAVE COMPLETED VACCINE SERIES.

OF COURSE, THE 5 TO 11 COHORT JUST GETTING GOING AND THAT IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING.

DAVID ACCORDING TO RECENT REPORTING BY NEW YORK TIMES NEW MEXICO RANKS SECOND IN THE NATION FOR NUMBER OF HOSPITALIZATIONS PER CAPITA IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS AND 8TH IN THE NUMBER OF COVID CASES, YET WE HAVE ONE OF THE HIGHEST VACCINATION RATES ALSO PER CAPITA.

GIVEN THAT, WAS THE GOVERNOR SMART TO EXTEND THE INDOOR MASK MANDATE FOR ANOTHER MONTH?

Dave: ANYTHING THAT CAN HELP.

AS DEDE POINTED OUT AND THERE IS A STUDY OUT FROM THE CDC SHOWING THAT MASKS CAN BE VERY EFFECTIVE.

I THINK SHE SHOULD.

THE COURTS HAVE BEEN CLEAR, UNFORTUNATELY WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN, YOU CANNOT DO A MANDATE, YOU KNOW, THEY SORT OF MOVED THE MANDATE AWAY AFTER THE HOLIDAY -- BUSINESSES ARE SAYING THEY DON'T WANT A MANDATE.

THE PROBLEM IS WE NEED TO GET PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THE THINGS THAT YOU ARE HEARING, I HEARD A STORY AND I REALLY COULD NOT FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO WITH THIS STORY, OF SOMEONE WHO HAD HAD THE VACCINE, THEIR SON IMMEDIATELY CAME OVER WITH A MAGNET TO CHECK TO MAKE SURE THAT NOTHING HAD BEEN INSERTED DURING THAT VACCINATION, THE BILL GATES MICROCHIP OR WHATEVER.

I KEEP THINKING TO MYSELF, LIKE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE NOT BEEN VACCINATE HAVE SAID TO ME, I AM GOING TO STUDY THE VACCINATION.

I KEEP THINKING TO MYSELF, AND I HAVE NOT SAID TO THEM, MAYBE I SHOULD, TELL ME WHERE YOUR PHD IN BIOCHEMISTRY IS FROM AND EXACTLY WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO STUDY.

WE NEED TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO GET THE VACCINATION AND STOP ACTING LIKE A BUNCH OF PEASANTS HOPING TO TURN DUST INTO GOLD.

WE ARE THE COUNTRY OF COURSE THAT WENT INTO COMPLETE, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, CHAOS WITH WAR OF THE WORLDS IN 1939 BUT HOPEFULLY WE HAVE PROGRESSED AND WE JUST NEED TO SAY TO PEOPLE, GET THE VACCINE, THE SCIENCE IS SAFE.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE GOING TO ALLOW SOMETHING TO BE INJECTED INTO YOU THAT IS GOING TO KILL YOU OR CAUSE MUTATION OR WHATEVER FANTASY THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WORKING OUT AND THEY KEEP REINFORCING IT, OH, MY GOD, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE LONG-TERM EFFECTS ARE.

WE DO KNOW THE LONG TERM OF COVID-19.

YOU'RE DEAD.

SO WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.

SPEAKING OF THAT, TOM, HOSPITALS CONTINUE TO SUFFER.

AT ONE POINT THIS WEEK THERE WERE ONLY 8 ICU BEDS IN THE ENTIRE STATE.

AND UNM AND PRES HAVE BOTH MOVED TO CRISIS STANDARDS OF CARE TO MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS, AS YOU KNOW, HOW TO ALLOCATE RESOURCES.

ARE WE AT A BREAKING POINT ON THIS?

Tom: ABSOLUTELY.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE TYPE OF STRESS THAT IS IN THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, THERE IS THE STATE IS TAKING OVER AND DIRECTING WHO GOES TO WHICH HOSPITAL AND WHO GETS INTO A BED.

SO, IF YOU'RE INJURED IN NEW MEXICO, YOU HAVE SOME REAL CHALLENGES OF GETTING A HOSPITAL BED.

I THINK TO HARKEN BACK TO ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT DEDE BROUGHT UP EARLIER IS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE FULLY VACCINATED IN NEW MEXICO AND THOSE WHO ARE HOSPITALIZED, THAT IS A SMALL PERCENTAGE, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE WHO ARE IN ICU OR EVEN ON VENTILATORS, AT LEAST IN ONE HOSPITAL NUMBERS THAT I SAW, IT IS ZERO.

SO WE KNOW THAT THE VACCINE WORKS.

WE KNOW THAT THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN FULLY VACCINATED ARE NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO BE SEEING THE MAJOR EFFECTS LIKE WE SEE WITH THOSE WHO ARE NOT VACCINATED.

WHAT WE ALSO NEED, THOUGH, IS A RESET ON INFORMATION.

TO DAVE'S POINT, THERE IS OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF MISINFORMATION STILL OUT THERE AND NOW ADDING INTO THE MIX IS HOW LONG DO THE ANTIBODIES LAST?

SO, YOU KNOW, THERE IS JUST A LOT OF CONTINUED MISCOMMUNICATION AND I AM NOT SURE WHERE THAT NEEDS TO -- AS FAR AS WHO OWNS THAT PARTICULAR MESSAGE.

IS THAT FEDERAL LEVEL WITH ANTHONY FAUCI?

AND THEN EVERYTHING TRICKLES DOWN, YOU KNOW.

I WISH IT WAS THAT SIMPLE BUT I THINK WE ALL JUST NEED TO HIT THE RESET BUTTON ON INFORMATION AND LOOK AT THE FACTS AGAIN BECAUSE THE CONTINUED SEPARATED DIALOGUE IS NOT HELPING NEW MEXICO RESIDENTS.

IT IS ACTUALLY HURTING.

Gene: WELL SAID.

YOU KNOW, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN INOCULATION AND VACCINATION.

THAT IS ALSO THE CONFUSING PART.

I HEAR FROM A LOT OF FOLKS.

DEDE, I'M DYING TO ASK YOU ALL THIS QUESTION.

THE STATE SUPREME COURT SETTLED A LEGAL FIGHT OVER HOW NEW MEXICO IS SPENDING FEDERAL COVID-19 RELIEF FUNDS.

THE COURT RULED IN FAVOR OF FOUR DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS' CHALLENGING THE GOVERNOR'S UNILATERAL SPENDING DECISIONS.

NOW THE LATEST SESSION HAS TO GET THAT SPENDING FIGURED OUT DURING A ALREADY JAM-PACKED SPECIAL SESSION FOR REDISTRICTING BY DRAGGING IT OUT LONGER.

COULD THIS HAVE A BACK FIRING FROM A POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE FOR THOSE LAWMAKERS?

Dede: I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION.

BUT I WANT TO SAY ONE THING ABOUT THIS RULING, FIRST OF ALL.

THAT IS, WE NEED TO SEPARATE TWO ISSUES IN TERMS OF THE GOVERNOR'S POWER AND WHAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS SAID ABOUT IT.

THE SUPREME COURT HAS AFFIRMED THE LEGISLATURE'S AUTHORITY TO APPROPRIATE FEDERAL FUNDS.

IT HAS ALSO AFFIRMED THE GOVERNOR'S AUTHORITY TO MAKE PUBLIC HEALTH DECISIONS WHEN IT COMES TO COVID-19.

SO, IT IS NOT ACROSS THE BOARD REPUDIATION OF THE GOVERNOR'S AUTHORITY.

IT IS SIMPLY AFFIRMING THE LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY TO DIRECT OVER A BILLION DOLLARS IN FEDERAL FUNDS FOR COVID RELIEF.

IT IS NOT EVEN CLEAR, THOUGH, WHETHER THIS RULING APPLIES TO OTHER FEDERAL FUNDS, OTHER THAN THE COVID FUNDS.

AND I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING THAT OKAY, SO, YES, AND I AM A FAN OF THE LEGISLATURE, OF COURSE, I AM A FORMER SENATOR.

BUT, THE GOVERNOR WILL HAVE THE ABILITY ONCE THE LEGISLATURE APPROPRIATES THE FUNDS TO VETO THEM.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE KIND OF BACK TO SQUARE ONE THERE.

Gene: I HADN'T CONSIDERED THAT.

YOU'RE RIGHT.

WOW.

WE'LL SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT.

WE ARE ALL KEEPING OUR EYE ON COVID-19 NUMBERS AS WE HEAD INTO THE HOLIDAY SEASON.

THANK YOU FOR THIS INSIGHTFUL DISCUSSION.

STILL TO COME ON THE LINE, REACTION TO NEW SHAKEUPS IN THE GOVERNOR'S ADMINISTRATION.

Laura: OUR LAND IS BACK.

I AM LAURA PASKUS AND THIS MONTH WE ARE FEATURING JULIA BERNAL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE PUEBLO ACTION ALLIANCE, SHE AND I TALK ABOUT WATER AND RIVERS, WHICH ARE ON EVERYONE'S MINDS RIGHT NOW AS WE FACE HUGE CHALLENGES IN NEW MEXICO.

AND SHE SHARES WHAT IT MEANS TO THINK ABOUT WATER FROM A PUEBLO FEMINIST PERSPECTIVE.

SHE ALSO TALKS ABOUT LAND BACK AND WATER BACK AND WE TAKE A DEEP DIVE INTO WHAT THESE MOVEMENTS MEAN FOR THE HEALTH OF THE WHOLE LANDSCAPE AND ALL OF OR COMMUNITIES.

JULIA BERNAL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

Bernal: THANK YOU.

Laura: I HAVE HEARD YOU TALK ABOUT PUEBLO FEMINIST PERSPECTIVE ON NEW MEXICO'S RIVERS AND WATER.

I WAS WONDERING CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THAT IS AND HOW THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM HOW WE TREAT OUR RIVERS TODAY?

Bernal: SURE.

WELL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON TODAY.

SO, I HAVE ESSENTIALLY BEEN TRYING TO PUSH THIS NARRATIVE OF THE NEED FOR A PUEBLO FEMINIST PERSPECTIVE IN WATER MANAGEMENT SPECIFICALLY.

AND THIS IS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THROUGH A PUEBLO PERSPECTIVE, SPEAKING FROM MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, FEM, WOMEN, ARE TYPICALLY THE CARRIERS OF WATER.

THEY HOLD WATER.

AND THEY ARE ASSOCIATED WITH WATER AND OUR UNDERSTANDING OF WATER IS FAR GREATER, I BELIEVE, THAN WHAT THE DOMINANT PARADIGM IS OFFERING TO US, WHICH IS TYPICALLY THROUGH, YOU KNOW, WHITE MALE PERSPECTIVE.

AND ESPECIALLY HERE IN THE SOUTHWEST ALONG THE MIDDLE RIO GRANDE, RIO GRANDE BASIN, PUEBLO PEOPLE HAVE BEEN STEWARDING AND INHABITING AND BEING IN RELATION WITH OUR WATERWAYS SINCE TIME IMMEMORIAL AND WOMEN PLAY AND FEM PLAY A VERY VITAL ROLE IN THAT RELATIONSHIP.

WE VIEW OUR WATERWAYS AS MOTHERS.

YOU KNOW, THIS INNATELY GIVES US THE SPIRITUAL AND INHERENT RELATIONSHIP WITH OUR WATERS.

SO, WE UNDERSTAND WATER IN THAT WAY.

SO I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT, YOU KNOW, NOW ESPECIALLY SINCE WE ARE IN CLIMATE CRISIS, CLIMATE -- IT HAS BEEN CHANGING HISTORICALLY OVER TIME BUT IT IS RAPIDLY CHANGING NOW AND IMPACTING HOW WE LIVE WITH THE COMMUNITY AND HOW WE ARE LIVING WITH OUR COMMUNITIES.

SO, THERE NEEDS TO BE RADICAL AND DRASTIC CHANGE IN HOW WE MANAGE OUR WATER AND HOW WE MANAGE THE WATERSHED.

SO, I JUST REALLY BELIEVE THAT IF THERE ARE MORE FEMINIST PERSPECTIVES, PUEBLO FEMINIST PERSPECTIVES, IN WATER CONVERSATIONS, MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES WOULD DEFINITELY SHIFT.

Laura: LOTS OF PEOPLE HAVE HEARD ABOUT LAND BACK.

I AM INTERESTED IN LEARNING MORE ABOUT WATER BACK AND WHAT THAT MEANS HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

Bernal: I MEAN, LAND BACK IS A GLOBAL MOVEMENT AND IT IS NOT ABOUT OBTAINING LIKE PROPERTY BACK.

IT IS NOT ABOUT BEING LIKE THIS WAS OUR LAND AND WE NEED TO HAVE LIKE THE PROPERTY OWNER RIGHTS OF IT.

IT IS MORE ABOUT THE RESURGENCE OF INDIGENOUS STEWARDSHIP AND MANAGEMENT BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THAT WHAT WE DO AND OUR PERSPECTIVE IS BENEFICIAL FOR EVERYONE.

THE SAME THING WITH WATER, SO, WHEN WE WERE THINKING ABOUT WHAT WATER BACK MEANT TO US, WE THOUGHT ABOUT HOW TIED THE LAND IS TO WATER AND HOW IMPORTANT WATER IS IN PUEBLO CULTURE.

I MEAN, A LOT OF OUR CEREMONIES AND SONGS AND DANCES REALLY DO RESOLVE AROUND SPEAKING TO OUR WATER GODS AND ASKING FOR ABUNDANCE AND HEALTHY WATERSHEDS AND HEALTHY COMMUNITIES.

THAT IS VERY CORE TO OUR WAYS OF LIFE AND OUR WORLD VIEW.

SO, AGAIN, IF WE WERE TO HAVE A RESURGENCE OF THAT INDIGENOUS IDENTITY IN HOW WE MANAGE LAND AND WATER, IT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL FOR EVERYONE.

ALSO, JUST THAT WE NEED TO SHIFT THE WAY WE LOOK AT WATER.

THE WATER TO US, THE MIDDLE RIO GRANDE, THAT IS OUR RIVER MOTHER.

AND SO THAT IS A REASON WHY IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US TO REASSERT THAT PERSON HOOD, BECAUSE IF WE ASSERT A PERSON HOOD ON OUR WATERWAYS WE PROBABLY WOULD TREAT HER A LOT DIFFERENTLY, YOU KNOW.

WE PROBABLY HAVE A LOT MORE RESPECT AND ACTS OF RECIPROCITY RATHER THAN DAMNING IT AND ALLOCATING IT AND WASTING IT, EVEN.

SO, WATER BACK IS JUST REALLY THAT SAME SORT OF CONCEPT AS LIKE WHAT DECOLONIZING IS.

I KNOW THAT IS A SPIN LATELY, BUT OUR DEFINITION HAS BEEN REMOVAL OF ZERO CENTRIC OCCUPATIONS AND IDEALS AND RESURGENCE OF INDIGENOUS IDENTITY BECAUSE THAT IS THE WAY THIS LANDSCAPE NEEDS TO BE MANAGED.

AND, OF COURSE, HERE IN THE SOUTHWEST, YOU KNOW, WATER SECURITY, WATER SCARCITY ARE REAL THINGS AND THEY WILL CONTINUE TO BE VERY REAL THINGS AND SO IF THERE IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR PUEBLO PEOPLE TO RECLAIM THEIR OLD MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES, WE MAY SEE THE HEALTH OF THE RIVER LOOK A LOT BETTER THAN WAIT DOES NOW.

Laura: IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE SOMETIMES WHEN PEOPLE HEAR LAND BACK OR WATER BACK, THEY GET LIKE REALLY DEFENSIVE AND THINK ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF COLONIZING, BASICALLY LIKE TAKING SOMETHING, KEEPING IT, BUT IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS SOMETHING THAT IS REALLY DIFFERENT FROM THAT, THAT IT IS LAND BACK AND WATER BACK IS SOMETHING THAT BENEFITS LOTS OF PEOPLE, MANY PEOPLE, EVERYONE.

CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT?

Bernal: DECOLONIZING IS A VERY LONG PROCESS.

WE HAVE BEEN IN THIS PERIOD OF COLONIZATION, YOU KNOW, FOR LIKE OVER 500 YEARS NOW.

SO, IT IS NOT ABOUT LIKE GOING BACK IN TIME, YOU KNOW.

IT IS NOT ABOUT LIKE GOING BACK IN TIME WHERE THERE WASN'T LIKE TECHNOLOGY OR THERE WASN'T, YOU KNOW, THESE HUMAN ADVANCES.

BUT IT WAS A TIME WHERE THE LAND WAS VIEWED AS OUR EARTH MOTHER, THE WATER WAS VIEWED AS OUR WATER MOTHER AND WE TOOK WHAT WE NEEDED AND ALSO GAVE BACK.

SO, WE ARE ALSO NAVIGATING A FOREIGN LANGUAGE, ENGLISH.

SO, IN ORDER FOR US TO CONVEY THESE DECOLONIAL THOUGHTS IN ENGLISH IS ALWAYS SOMETHING WE HAVE TO NAVIGATE.

LAND BACK AND WATER BACK HAVE BEEN TWO MOVEMENTS THAT SEEM TO ALIGN WITH A LOT OF INDIGENOUS VALUES BUT ALSO UPSET NONINDIGENOUS PEOPLE TOO.

SO, THERE IS, THEN AGAIN, NOW THERE IS THIS NEED FOR A CONVERSATION AROUND, OR EVEN JUST CREATING SPACES, TO REALLY THINK DEEPLY ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO BE COLONIZED.

AND WE ARE STILL EVEN, YOU KNOW, IN THOSE CONVERSATIONS RIGHT NOW.

LIKE, WE DON'T HAVE THE ANSWERS NOW.

THERE IS A LOT THAT NEEDS TO BE UNDONE AND THERE IS A LOT THAT NEEDS TO BE LEARNED.

BUT, THE WAY THAT WATER IS, IT MOVES, IF IT IS STAGNANT ITS QUALITY GETS REALLY POOR AND SO WE VIEW WATER AS A VERY TRANSFORMATIVE PROCESS.

I MEAN OUR RIVER HAS BEEN CHANGING SO MUCH OVER THE MILLENNIA AND WE NEED TO LOOK AT THINGS IN THAT PERSPECTIVE TOO.

AND ALSO COME TO TERMS WITH THE FACT THAT WE AND I, WE MAY NEVER SEE -- WE MIGHT NEVER SEE THAT CHANGE BUT AT LEAST WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE SPACE AND AGAIN DEEP THINKING FOR WHAT OUR FUTURES COULD POTENTIALLY LOOK LIKE.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, WE HAVE THE INHERENT BIRTH RIGHT TO JUST ENJOY OUR LANDSCAPE.

THAT IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL, I THINK.

AND INVITING OTHER NONINDIGENOUS PEOPLE TO ALSO KNOW WHAT IT MEANS FOR THAT ENJOYMENT OF THE LANDSCAPE, AGAIN, IT IS BENEFICIAL FOR EVERYBODY.

NOT JUST HUMANS, NONHUMAN RELATIVES AS WELL.

Laura: JULIA BERNAL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH ME TODAY, Bernal: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

Gene: THIS WEEK OUR ENVIRONMENT CORRESPONDENT, LAURA PASKUS, REPORTED ON THE SUDDEN RESIGNATION OF THE STATE'S TOP WATER OFFICIAL, JOHN DE ANTONIO.

TWO OTHER OFFICIALS ARE ALSO LEAVING SOON AND ALL AT A TIME WHEN THE STATE IS FACING CRUCIAL DECISIONS ABOUT OUR DWINDLING WATER SUPPLIES.

AT THE SAME TIME, THE GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED ON WEDNESDAY SHE WAS NAMING THREE HIGH LEVEL ADVISORS FOR WATER, BROADBAND AND INFRASTRUCTURE.

THE LAST ONE WILL BE FILLED BY A FAMILIAR NAME, FORMER ALBUQUERQUE MAYOR MARTIN CHAVEZ.

YOU KNOW MAYOR CHAVEZ, WELL, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF ALL THESE MOVES, BUT PARTICULARLY HIS?

Dede: I THINK IT IS A GOOD MOVE.

I THINK THAT HE IS EXPERIENCED AND WILL DO A GOOD JOB IN THAT POST.

I REMEMBER WHEN GOVERNOR RICHARDSON APPOINTED TONY ANAYA TO BE THE SORT OF THE CZAR OF THE IRA FUNDING IN THE WAKE OF THE 2008 RECESSION.

AND THAT WAS WELL RECEIVED.

IT DEPENDS, OF COURSE, ON HOW HE WORKS WITH OTHERS, HOW HE WORKS WITH LOCAL OFFICIALS.

AND -- Gene: LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THAT.

HE IS GOING TO BE TASKED WITH HELPING DETERMINE SPENDING PRIORITIES FOR ROUGHLY FOUR BILLION DOLLARS IN FEDERAL FUNDING FOR INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS ACROSS THE STATE.

IS IT APPROPRIATE TO HAVE THIS ALL GO THROUGH ONE PERSON AS CZAR, SO TO SPEAK, OR IS THERE ANOTHER WAY TO HANDLE THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY?

Dede: THERE HAS TO BE SOMEBODY IN CHARGE BUT THERE ALSO HAS TO BE A PROCESS.

HE NEEDS TO SET UP A PROCESS WHEREBY LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND STATE OFFICIALS CAN COME BEFORE HIM AND THE PUBLIC CAN PARTICIPATE IN A FORUM IN WHICH THEY SAY HOW THE MONEY SHOULD BE SPENT, WHICH PROJECTS ARE SHOVEL READY, WHICH ARE NOT.

HOW LONG THEY WOULD TAKE.

I AM MORE ENTHUSED ABOUT THE WATER CZAR THAT THE GOVERNOR APPOINTED WHO IS NOW THE CHIEF ENGINEER FOR THE MIDDLE RIO GRANDE CONSERVANCY DISTRICTS, MIKE HAMMOND.

I THINK HE IS GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

OF COURSE, THE BIG APPOINTMENT THERE IS STATE ENGINEER.

AND WE DON'T KNOW WHO THAT IS GOING TO BE BUT I THINK THAT WILL BE VERY IMPORTANT.

Gene: DOVETAILING WHAT DEDE JUST LAID OUT, WHICH IS AWESOME, HOW IMPORTANT IS STABILITY IN AN ADMINISTRATION VERSUS, YOU KNOW, GETTING NEW BLOOD AND NEW THINKING INTO THESE IMPORTANT POSITIONS?

Tom: YOU NEED A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH, ACTUALLY.

TO KIND OF PLAY OFF A COMMENT THAT YOU MADE WITH DEDE AS FAR AS THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT MAYOR CHAVEZ IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO HELP TO FACILITATE 3.7 BILLION, TO PUT THAT INTO PERSPECTIVE, THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE'S OPERATING BUDGET FOR FY '22 IS 1.2 BILLION.

TO KIND OF PUT ALL OF THIS -- THAT IS A LOT OF MONEY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, NOT TO BELABOR THE GOOD COMMENTS ALREADY MADE, THE TRANSITION AND DEFINITELY APPEARS TO HAVE HIT THE LUJAN GRISHAM ADMINISTRATION MORE THAN OTHERS BUT IT IS NOT THAT UNUSUAL.

WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT CHANGES AT ALL OF OUR BUSINESSES, ALL OF OUR LIVES HAVE REALLY HAPPENED OVER THE LAST 15 TO 16 MONTHS, YOU KNOW, YOU REALLY SEE A LOT OF TRANSITION, PEOPLE ARE SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT, MAYBE IT IS TIME TO GO DO OTHER THINGS AND THAT IS PERHAPS, IN PART, NOT OBVIOUSLY THE LOW STAFFING NUMBERS AT THE ENGINEER'S OFFICE, MAYBE THAT IS WHAT JOHN DEANTONIO WAS LOOKING AT.

MAYBE IT IS WHAT JOHN BLAIR IS LOOKING AT, GREAT PUBLIC SERVANT WHO IS GOING TO SHOW UP SOMEWHERE ELSE, MOST DEFINITELY, BUT IT ALSO PROVIDED AN OPPORTUNITY, ALL THIS TRANSITION, FOR SOME FAMILIAR FACES TO RETURN.

LIKE SECRETARY JOHN GARCIA, WHO WAS SECRETARY OF TOURISM, SECRETARY OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT UNDER GARY JOHNSON.

HE IS NOW OVER THE GENERAL SERVICES DIVISION.

SO, THE TRANSITION, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T LIKE TO SEE THAT MUCH BUT, YOU KNOW WHAT, TO ME IT IS NOT THAT CONCERNING.

IT APPEARS THAT KURT STEINHAUS IS IN A VERY GOOD POSITION WITH PED AND SO THERE IS TRANSITION BUT I AM NOT ALL THAT SURPRISED BY THE AMOUNT OF TRANSITION THAT I AM SEEING.

Gene: DAVE, HAVE GOT TO WONDER, REVOLVING DOOR PERCEPTIONS.

IS THIS NORMAL COURSE OF BUSINESS, YOU GO THROUGH FOUR YEARS, YOU WANT NEW BLOOD IN, OR IS THERE ACTUALLY SOME POLITICAL FALLOUT FOR THE GOVERNOR WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE LEAVING?

Dave: NOBODY LIKES CHANGE.

HUMAN BEINGS TEND NOT TO LIKE CHANGE.

DOGS DON'T LIKE THEIR ROUTINE DISRUPTED, BUT I WOULD ARGUE THAT THE GOVERNOR AND NOT JUST THIS GOVERNOR BUT GOVERNORS NATIONWIDE, WE ARE IN A BIG NEW ERA, YOU KNOW.

RONALD REAGAN STOOD UP IN FRONT OF THE COUNTRY AND SAID GOVERNMENT ISN'T THE SOLUTION, IT IS THE PROBLEM.

PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS SAID, GOVERNMENT IS THE SOLUTION.

HE IS A NEW DEAL LIBERAL.

IT IS WHAT THIS BILL DOES, WHAT HE PROPOSES THAT IT WILL DO.

WE HAVE NOT SEEN OR HEARD FROM A NEW DEAL LIBERAL SINCE I WOULD ARGUE POSSIBLY LYNDON JOHNSON, I DON'T KNOW.

MAYBE JIMMY CARTER BUT WE ARE IN A WHOLE NEW ERA AND I BELIEVE THAT THE GOVERNOR, SHE IS WELL CONNECTED IN WASHINGTON, SHE SPENT 10 YEARS THERE.

I THINK SHE IS UNDERSTANDING, THERE IS A HUGE FLOW OF MONEY ABOUT TO HIT NEW MEXICO, LET'S NOT WASTE IT.

LET'S NOT BLOW IT.

MAKE SURE WE CAN CHANNEL IT AND BE EFFECTIVE WITH IT AND I THINK SHE UNDERSTANDS THAT BECAUSE SHE UNDERSTANDS THE POWER OF FEDERAL MONEY FLOWING INTO STATES.

THAT IS MY PIECE ON ALL OF THIS.

Gene: WE HAVE LIMITED TIME BUT A REALLY IMPORTANT DEAL HERE.

SENATOR, SOME LATE BREAKING NEWS INVOLVING THE GOVERNOR THIS WEEK.

SHE ANNOUNCED PLANS TO INTRODUCE THE FIRST REDUCTION IN THE STATE'S GROSS RECEIPTS TAX IN NEARLY FOUR DECADES.

ACCORDING TO THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, IT WOULD SAVE NEW MEXICANS ABOUT 143 MILLION A YEAR.

A PRUDENT PROPOSAL?

WOULD THE STATE BE BETTER OFF USING THAT MONEY TO BOLSTER THE OFFICE OF THE STATE ENGINEER, POSSIBLY?

Dede: I THINK THAT IS WHAT SENT DE ANTONIO OUT THE DOOR WAS HIS INSTRUCTIONS TO COME IN WITH A FLAT BUDGET.

BUT, I THINK THAT THE PROPOSAL OF A REDUCTION OF GROSS RECEIPTS TAX BY ONE QUARTER OF 1% WILL HAVE SOME EFFECT.

IT WILL BE POLITICALLY POPLAR BUT I DO THINK THIS SHOULD BE PART OF A TOTAL TAX REFORM PACKAGE.

WE NOW HAVE THE MONEY TO DO THAT.

AND WE HAVE STARTED THE PROCESS.

OF COURSE, EVERY GOVERNOR HAS STARTED THE PROCESS AND STARTED TASK FORCES AND SO ON.

IT HASN'T GONE VERY FAR.

I CAN SEE THE EFFORT TO DO AT LEAST SOMETHING.

BUT I DO THINK IT NEEDS TO BE A PART OF A PACKAGE.

Gene: YOUR THOUGHT ON THIS?

YOU'RE A BUSINESS OWNER, IS .25 GOING TO DO ANYTHING FOR YOU?

Tom: NO, BUT THE INTENT IS THERE.

I LIKE THE INTENT.

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH DEDE.

SHE IS LOOKING OFF OF MY TALKING POINTS, I JUST KNOW IT.

MAYBE, JUST REALLY BRING JASON HARPER TO THE TABLE AND HAVE THOSE DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS DURING A 30-DAY SESSION, I THINK, IS POSSIBLE.

WE DEFINITELY HAVE THE SURPLUS.

AS A BUSINESS OWNER, I AM THRILLED THAT THERE IS A REDUCTION IN, OR A PROPOSED REDUCTION, IN GROSS RECEIPTS TAX.

Gene: CAN WE GET OUT THE PYRAMIDING AT THE SAME TIME?

Tom: ABSOLUTELY.

MY GOSH, PYRAMIDING IS LIKE THE GREAT SCOURGE FOR ALL SMALL BUSINESSES, ON PROFESSIONAL SERVICES AND STUFF, AND I THINK THAT THE GOVERNOR NOT THAT ANYONE IS FOCUSED ON REELECTION, BUT REALLY, RESTRUCTURING IT AND HELPING SMALL BUSINESS DURING THESE TIMES AND MAYBE EVEN PROVIDING ADDITIONAL GRANT PROGRAMS FOR SMALL BUSINESSES, I THINK ALL OF THAT CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED DURING THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

Gene: THANK YOU ALL FOR THOSE INSIGHTS.

YOU CAN READ LAURA'S FULL REPORT ON MR. DE ANTONIO'S RESIGNATION AND TROUBLES LOOMING FOR WATER HERE IN NEW MEXICO BY HEADING TO NEWMEXICOINFOCUS.ORG.

THIS THANKSGIVING HOLIDAY OUR THOUGHTS AND GOOD WISHES ARE GOING OUT TO YOU ALL AND ESPECIALLY ONE OF OUR OWN HERE AT NEW MEXICO PBS.

LINE PANELIST MERRITT ALLEN RECENTLY LOST HER MOTHER DIANE HAMILTON WHO LEFT QUITE A LEGACY OF PUBLIC SERVICE ACROSS NEW MEXICO.

SHE SERVED IN THE STATE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE FROM 1998 TO 2016, REPRESENTING DISTRICT 38 IN GRANT, SIERRA AND HIDALGA COUNTIES.

MS. HAMILTON WAS A DEDICATED PUBLIC SERVANT A TRAILBLAZER AND A STAUNCH ADVOCATE FOR VETERANS' ISSUES AND FAIR ELECTIONS.

SHE WILL BE HONORED AT THE ROUNDHOUSE THIS MONDAY FROM 10:00 A.M. TO 2:00 P.M. AS SHE LIES IN STATE IN THE ROTUNDA.

THANKS AS ALWAYS FOR JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.