(upbeat music) - Welcome to Forum 360 with its global outlook and local view.

I'm Ardith Keck.

If you are not familiar with the name Sojourner Truth, we are going to give you a history lesson.

So please, pay attention as I talk with my guests, Theresa Carter, president of the Synthomer Foundation and Leianne Neff-Heppner, president and CEO of the Summit County Historical Society of Akron.

We welcome our two very prestigious guests to talk about Sojourner Truth.

They are both on the committee to raise funds, to create a Sojourner Truth statue and plaza in Akron.

Why Sojourner Truth?

Why is it important to have a statue in Akron?

And who was she?

Leianne?

- Well, you know, it's fabulous to have this opportunity to talk about this momentous woman from our past.

And actually, she was crossing through Akron for this opportunity in May of 1851 at the Ohio Women's Convention.

And so that's why we're talking about her.

She spoke up and she shared information that became really known as the most influential speech on women's rights and abolitionism in the United States.

- And so is it important to have a statue here because she spoke here?

- Well, it's important to commemorate the location from where she made that speech, because it transitioned, not just Akron, Ohio, but our nation.

And why would we want to do it in Akron?

To let people know about the fact that the Western Reserve was the hotbed of abolitionism at the time and connect those stories, those individuals that came into this area and made a national impact, others like John Brown, as well.

- Let's track Sojourner Truth back in time.

She was born a slave.

Where was that, Theresa?

- Well, she was born in, it was New York City, I would say it was... - In Ulster County, New York.

- Ulster County, New York.

Absolutely.

And so, and then traveled around the world because as she was a slave at that point, and then she had a family and then she was moved from her family, and it's just a long history of how she even got here and how she transformed herself to speaking and becoming a preacher and all those good things to get here, to tell her story and to fight for women's rights.

- But even before Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation, she became free.

How did that happen?

- Well, it is interesting because it's confusing.

You don't think that anyone in the North would have under the slavery bond, but New York did have slaves.

And in 1828, they were gonna end that with emancipation.

She actually was able to negotiate with the gentlemen, Mr. Dumont, of which she was living and as a slave to him because of her good works, that she would actually become free a year early, but unfortunately, he didn't keep his promise.

And so she took matters into her own hands and made it happen.

- And was Sojourner Truth her real name?

- No, that is the name that she personified.

And as our committee has worked on, is talking about why she had that transition.

Her name actually was Isabella Baumfree.

Later, she took on the name of the family who helped her to have her freedom, which was Van Wagenen.

Isabella Van Wagenen.

- So, she was Isabella, not Sojourner?

- Right, but it was because she had gotten this premonition from God that gave her, her anointment, to move forward to do the work that she was doing, that she changed her name to Sojourner Truth and started her journey along that route.

- And people have said to me, when I said, we're gonna do this show, Sojourner, where did she get that from?

To me, it means somebody who travels.

- Absolutely, as Theresa said, she felt that she was given this right from God to preach, to become an itinerant preacher, to spread the good word, to tell the truth.

- And that brings me to another question I have for you.

Was she religious?

- Very.

And back in that day, you know, slaves were known to be religious 'cause you pulled from your faith to get through, right?

So the way she had been treated, they just knew that it was God that was watching over them to get them through.

So her passion for his word and her preaching the word and sharing and giving inspiration to others is why she did what she did and she believes so deeply in her religious values.

- And can you describe her?

- Describe her structure?

- Her physically.

- Yes.

She actually was a very large and tall woman.

She was probably 5'11" or six feet tall and she was very muscular.

She was extremely strong because she worked hard.

She could work as hard as any man, it was stated, actually- - [Ardith] As she said in her speech.

- She said in her speech.

And actually, I actually don't like using the word master.

It's uncomfortable for me, but historically, if that's the owner of the slave, then, her master, Mr. Dumont, said she could work actually as much as six White men, six common men.

- But very stately because she was very confident, I think, in who she was and understanding that she had this will and desire and had this mission.

So she had to fight and be courageous and brave.

So, I mean, she just stood in her own presence to be the great woman that she is or was.

- Absolutely, her confidence from God gave her that presence.

- Yep, interesting.

And I think we have a photograph of her, which we will show.

She was a former slave.

Could she read and write?

- Nope, she was illiterate, could not read and write, but could speak and could share and could voice what it was that she wanted to get across.

And so she had people around her that traveled with her that could translate to her what others were saying, or even write her message that she was giving so that she could know, right, what she had said and that people could understand where she was coming from when she delivered those great messages.

- And that was no fault of hers because she was not allowed to be taught to read or write.

But it also did not reflect on her intelligence because she was extremely knowledgeable.

When she would quote the Bible, it's from memorizing it.

And the fact is that her first language was Dutch.

And so then English was her second language.

And so then, it just brings your esteem for her and her eloquence even higher.

- Exactly.

- And she published, or someone published a narrative of Sojourner Truth.

How did that happen?

- Well, she was greatly inspired by Frederick Douglass's excellence and all the books that he sold about his biography.

And so she worked with Olive Gilbert to produce her booklet.

It took about three years to be able to share her story and have it then transcribed.

And it was William Lloyd Garrison that helped put her in touch with the publisher to make it happen in 1850.

- And why did she want to publish a narrative of Sojourner Truth?

- Well, you know, that was the way for her to make money, as well.

- Ah ha!

- Again, she knew that Frederick Douglas had done it.

So she says, hey, why not, right?

So she did that it and as they traveled, she used that to, that people paid to get it and the postcards and all of that with her information on it.

And so that was her money-making process.

- And she wanted to own her own home.

So how is she gonna do that?

She's got to make money in a big way.

And although she priced her book too low.

It's 25 cents.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- But even an entrepreneur back in those days, right?

- That's right.

- She knew what she needed to do, yeah.

- Was she famous in her day?

- Yes, she was, actually.

I mean, and I would say that she probably went through phases, like you think of today of people's popularity, gathering and lowering, is that after the 1851 convention here in Akron, she was well-noted.

She was known in that larger circuits.

Harriet Beecher Stowe was writing about her, but really, her popularity comes again to the forefront when Frances Dana Gage produces, 12 years after the event, the speech that we know today is, "Ain't I a Woman".

And that then just skyrockets her popularity, again.

- And even though there was controversy around that, right, because she's never really said it in her speech, but you know, she was a trailblazer, even back then.

She wasn't afraid.

She didn't have fear because again, God was leading her, but she knew this is something she had to do.

So going around speaking and sharing and insisting that again, women's rights, 'cause a part of her big speech was even though it was for women to have the right to vote, people of color still, at that point, did not have that right.

And she just talked about all of that in her words.

And so it resonated and people talked about it.

- So you're bringing out the fact that one of her beliefs was that women should have the right to vote.

- Oh, absolutely.

- What was another of her beliefs?

- Well, that all people should be treated equally and have their freedom, that individuals should not be held in bondage.

- [Ardith] She was an abolitionist.

- Absolutely.

- She was.

- Hmm hmm, okay.

There's some controversy about her talk in Akron.

And you mentioned Gage and she wrote a talk that was full of dialect, almost difficult to read.

So tell me about the controversy.

- Well, I think it's very interesting from a historian standpoint, because what Gage produced must be taken at the time that it was written.

And so here we are in the throws of the civil war.

And so in some aspects, you have to wonder, is she writing things to draw attention to the abolitionist's cause and how much of that may be propaganda?

So when you look at what Gage wrote, in terms of what was happening, that they were upset that an African-American woman was in Akron at the conference, and that the local pastors were downplaying the role of women and their opportunities, you look at the other side of that historically, and Marius Robinson shows none of that so it can be very confusing.

And I think that looking at the time period and understanding why Gage might've written it, is very helpful.

So the controversy actually has controversy, if that makes sense, from a historic standpoint.

- We're gonna talk about the plaza in a moment.

Can you tell me which version of her speech will be inscribed on the plaza?

- Well, our committee has definitely spent a lot of time talking about it and because Marius Robinson recorded the speech so close to the time that it was presented and he had the permission of Sojourner Truth because they were friends.

She actually had been staying with he and his wife, Emily, in Salem, Ohio, not very far away, that, that is the speech that we'll be looking at.

That's the speech that we've been using with our material to prepare and share with the public, especially our work with the Akron public schools and many students throughout our region.

- So we have an education committee.

We're working with the National Trust Fund, African-American Heritage Fund that the Knight Foundation works so closely with us to bring in.

They have experts around the world that's working on this project with us to talk about what should we do.

And I think, at some point, it may be both versions, you know, because it is controversial.

The whole education piece, the whole, what it started out, what it really said.

I think they're going to try to find a way to incorporate it in everything.

So it's a work in progress, but it's going to be amazing because we have some fantastic people at the table working with us to make it happen.

- Yes, and my notes indicate that way back in May of 1999, there was a committee to try to get funding for a statue of Sojourner Truth in Akron.

It didn't happen, obviously.

And now, we have a great committee and I want you to tell me about that and what you're trying to do.

- Well, I just, first, historically, we'd like to just reference, Faye Dambrot and her role in the Women's History Project and others that work, companions on that project, like Ruth Wright Clinefelter and Dr. Theresa Barley and Dr. Kitty Endres.

And unfortunately, it didn't happen at that time, but the concept of it never died.

- Right.

- And so as Theresa will tell you more about that, we just remember Faye Dambrot and we're grateful that her family continues to be involved in the process.

- I'm going to interrupt you now to tell our audience that we are discussing Sojourner Truth and the possibility of a statue of Sojourner Truth in Akron.

And my guests are Theresa Carter, who is president of the Synthomer Foundation and Leianne Neff-Heppner who is president and CEO of the Summit County Historical Society of Akron.

And we're talking, now, about the committee that has been formed to try to get a plaza and a statue of Sojourner Truth in Akron.

Go on.

- Well, Theresa, I'll let you go ahead and talk about the current structure of our committee.

- So even though Faye, as she said, they weren't able to get the statue done, they were able to get the marker, that's at the building now, that's on High Street where the United Way Building is housed, or back then, it was the Old Stone Universalist church, I believe it was.

- So it was the Old Stone Universalist Church, used to be beside the building we know today as the Sojourner Truth Building, and the historical marker is what Theresa is referring.

- So the marker's there, the building is called the Sojourner Truth Building.

So it was only appropriate that that's where she would be, her statue would be.

And so working with the United Way, who has embraced this project with us, excited to allow us now to have their whole front and there's a parking area that's in front of their building, that we're going to transform now into this plaza.

And so we will have her statue there.

We will have, it started out, I will tell you, as just the statue, right.

The project was going to be $400,000 for us to construct the statue.

As we talked about her journey and what it really meant to this community and what she meant and how it should be a part of history here and education for young people to understand and families, it transformed into this entire plaza.

So the columns, the education pieces, the recognizing of other women who, you know, with her being who she is and how we've stood on her shoulders, you know, and these folks who've been in this community that's done some dynamic things, that we're going to highlight.

So it's just been a wonderful project.

It's going to be absolutely gorgeous.

We're still working on it.

It has now grown to a budget of about close to $2 million.

But I'm excited to say that we have raised close to $1,000,003.

We have about $600,000 in hand.

- Oh!

- But still have a ways to go.

But working with these organizations who've come to the table, the Akron Community Foundation has been absolutely outstanding working with us.

They are our fiscal agent for the project.

They are helping us with the fundraising.

The Summit County Metro Parks, Lisa King, and her team have been very instrumental with us.

One of her staff persons, Anne Andre, I think, was responsible for even doing the architectural design of what the plaza could look like.

And then working with the African-American Heritage Fund and others, that they are tweaking it every day, it seems like, to come up with, to just so how it could represent the community and what she stood for and what she meant during that time.

So we're excited about it.

So it'll be a full life-size statue of Sojourner Truth.

So 6'1" or something, however tall she is.

What's amazing is, and you can stop me at any time, but Woodrow Nash, which is our local, well-renown artist, is constructing her statue.

So he was enlisted by Faye and the group way back when, and he had already done a prototype of her.

And so when we reached back out to him, he said, absolutely yes.

So he's going to be doing her statue for us, now.

- So he has created a prototype?

- Yes, we have a prototype.

And so he's tweaking that as we speak, too, because there were some things that they thought, his art is so fantastic.

And I don't know if you've known about Woodrow Nash.

He's right here in our own community, been around for years, he was born here in the late forties and here he is, this awesome, I mean, he does work for many stars and professionals all over the United States, all over the world that has his, you know, so he's pretty amazing, African-American artist that's right here in our own community.

So you have this historic Sojourner Truth, and you have this Black artist that's been around forever right here in our community.

And so we're just thrilled with all of the folks who have come to the table to make this happen.

- Well, suppose people want to donate?

They're inspired by what you're talking about.

What do they do?

- So we have a couple of websites.

Again, I talked about the Akron Community Foundation, so they can visit their website and make contributions there.

We have the Summit Suffrage Centennial that they can kind of go on the website there and look.

We have our own truthstatue2020.com, at gmail.com, that people can send an email if they want more information.

So we're getting the word out.

We're getting folks engaged and involved and asking them to just, any amount helps because we have this to raise.

We want to make it fantastic.

It's going to get done.

And we need support of the community.

- All right, it's going to get done.

- It's going to get done, yes.

- I love those words.

How about the city?

Has the city helped or the country helped?

- Absolutely, the city and the county has come in, in a major way.

United Way has come in.

We've had organizations, corporations have come in, individuals, great philanthropists who have given to the project.

So it's a big deal.

Everybody has embraced it, for the most part.

And again, we still need others that we're knocking on the door every single day, writing letters, sending it out, tell them about the project, telling them the significance of just having her here and what it would mean to this community.

- And every individual donation counts.

So if you want to give $20, we would be pleased with that.

And each person will be recognized.

Higher level donors will be recognized closer on site, but every single person that donates will be recognized through our website.

- How about telling us, again, those sites that they can go to?

- So we have the summitsuffragecentennial.com/tr.

- Summit Suffrage Continual?

- Centennial.

- Oh, Centennial, okay.

- Yes, because all of this started with the 100th anniversary of the Centennial for the Women's Suffrage movement.

And then there is the truth.2020.statue@gmail.com.

And that's where we will respond back to you and you can get more information.

And then the Akroncf.org and that's Akron Community Foundation, .org.

So you have SummitSuffrageCentennial.com/tr.

You have the Akroncf.org, and then you can reach out to us at truth.2020.statue@gmail.com.

It's a lot, but we'll give that to you so you can put it up for your audience.

(ladies laughing) - And those people that go to the Akron Community Foundation, what's really nice is you can go to, I want to donate to a fund and at the question, put in Sojourner Truth and it'll pull right up.

- Yes, easy stuff.

- [Ardith] That makes it a little easier.

- [Theresa] Yeah, yeah.

- Was Sojourner Truth married?

- She was, actually.

She was not married to the love of her life.

- Right.

- Unfortunately.

She loved Robert or Bob, and he lived at a neighboring home and the families didn't like that.

And sadly, he was beat for visiting her and continuing that relationship.

And so both were encouraged or basically forced to marry someone that lived on the property where they were.

And so she did marry and she had five children.

- She had five, okay.

- But they were all sold.

And separated.

- Yes, except for Sophia.

The youngest that she took with her when she walked her way to freedom.

- And I've learned from the bio that she took some grandchildren with her when she went to speak.

And that's interesting so obviously she was close to her family.

- So as Theresa mentioned, her other children had been sold and she won a court case getting the next youngest, Peter, back, because he had been sold further South, which was illegal.

And then after that, she was able to continue to develop relationships and to partner with her other children.

And so later in life, those children were involved with her.

And as you said, her grandchildren, then, could go with her.

She felt it was very important.

Like her mother had taught her that she then would pass on the information to her children and grandchildren, her religious beliefs and abolitionism and feminism.

- Yes.

- She died in 1883.

And probably about '86, but it was claimed that she was 105.

Why the confusion?

- Well, yeah, to think at the time, slaves would not have had access to a calendar and most items were dated by the season.

So how many seasons had passed?

How can you relate to when somebody else had been sold off to maybe know what year it was?

It was very confusing for them to know and to even mark.

- And she didn't know exactly how old she was.

- No, she did not.

- So, what was her legacy?

Why was she so famous?

It wasn't just the speech in Akron.

It was much more than that.

- Well, I think Theresa actually touched on it in terms of the fact that she had this power and compassion and that she would not be stopped.

And you described that about the shoulders, which Towanda Mullins, who's the chair of our committee, has expressed to us.

So I don't want to take away your thunder, but you definitely have eloquently- - Well no and I mean, she was courageous and she was very passionate and she had the will to just move forward, to fight for what she knew was right.

And so when you think about what she did and her purpose and what it meant for all of us, I'm sitting here today because of a Sojourner Truth, right?

So I think that's her legacy.

I think she left something for us to look back on to say, how dare us not fight now, when it's something important when she worked so very hard to just get us to this point and others who had come along the way, but she really stood out there with her passion and desire to make a difference.

- And she could not be stopped.

- Could not.

- She could not.

- Would not.

- Wonderful.

- [Theresa] Yes.

- What were some of the famous people that she knew?

She knew Harriet Beecher Stowe.

You said she was writing about her.

Who else?

Oh, you mentioned Frederick Douglas.

- [Theresa] Frederick Douglas, and I think, Abraham Lincoln was one.

- That's right.

President Lincoln.

Elizabeth Cady Stanton.

I always get her names mixed up.

I want to call them in the wrong order.

Susan B. Anthony even used her likeness and William Lloyd Garrison.

I mean, these were individuals that were very well known talking about abolitionism and women's rights.

- And Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony used Sojourner Truth when they went to speak at various locations and she spoke about women's rights.

All right.

(laughs) - Great powerful women, right?

- Yes, indeed.

- In the fight for justice.

- That's right.

- Her biographer, I've mentioned the book before, Nell Irvin Painter, says she was born into slavery and died a legend.

There is a copy of the painting of Sojourner Truth with President Lincoln and they met, but the painting is not actually historically, correct.

(sighs) Thank you, Leianne and Theresa, for coming to Forum 360 and thank you, our audience, for joining us on Forum 360 to learn about the legend, Sojourner Truth.

(upbeat music) - [Narrator] Form 360 is brought to you by John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, the Akron Community Foundation, Hudson Community Television, the Rubber City Radio Group, Shaw Jewish Community Center of Akron, Blue Green, Electric Impulse Communications and Forum 360 supporters.

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