>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, FINDING SOLUTIONS TO ALBUQUERQUE'S HOUSING CRISIS.

IN AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW, MAYOR TIM KILLER LAYS OUT HIS IDEAS AND CALLS FOR AN OPEN-MINDED APPROACH TO THE PROBLEM.

>> Keller: DEFAULT FOR ALBUQUERQUE RIGHT NOW IS NO, YOU CAN'T CONVERT A HOTEL, NO, YOU CAN'T CONVERT A COMMERCIAL BUILDING.

NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE A CASITA AND WE WANT TO SHIFT -- >> Gene: AND THE GOVERNOR SETS HER PRIORITIES FOR HER SECOND TERM AS WE LOOK AHEAD TO THE 2023 LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

HAPPY NEW YEAR, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

AS WE LOOK AHEAD TO 2023, THE UPCOMING LEGISLATIVE SESSION IS TOP OF MIND AND IN LESS THAN 15 MINUTES, I ASK LINE OPINION PANELISTS FOR THE WEEK HOW THE GOVERNOR'S PRIORITIES WILL FARE DURING THE 60-DAY SESSION.

WE'RE ALSO GOING TO EXAMINE THREE CHOICES FOR NEW STATE PUBLIC REGULATION COMMISSION AS THE LEGISLATURE WAITS TO CONFIRM THE GOVERNOR'S APPOINTMENT, BUT WE START THIS WEEK WITH AN INTERVIEW YOU'LL ONLY SEE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

LATE LAST MONTH ALBUQUERQUE MAYOR KIM TILLER JOINED ME IN STUDIO TO TALK ABOUT A SLEW OF ISSUES IMPACTING THE CITY BUT MOST NOTABLY HOUSING.

THE MAYOR IS PUSHING A PLAN CONTINUE TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF RENTAL UNITS IN THE CITY.

IT IS CALLED THE HOUSING FORWARD INITIATIVE AND CALLS FOR 5,000 NEW UNITS BY 2025.

IT UNDERSCORES THE CITY'S DIRE NEED FOR HOUSING BUT IT WON'T BE A SIMPLE PROCESS.

AS MAYOR EXPLAINS THE CITY NEEDS ACTION ON HOUSING RIGHT NOW.

ALBUQUERQUE MAYOR TIM TELLER, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

IN THE STUDIO OF NEW MEXICO PBS.

REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> Keller: GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> Gene: LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR HOUSING IDEAS.

WE HAVE GOT SOMETHING GOING ON HERE THAT A LOT OF THE COUNTRY IS STRUGGLING WITH, MAYOR, AS YOU KNOW.

NOT TELLING YOU SOMETHING YOU DON'T KNOW, BUT WE ARE SHORT ON HOUSING, PARTICULARLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN A GROWING COMMUNITY.

WE HAVE GENERATIONAL CHANGES.

LET'S TALK A LOT ABOUT THAT.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE HOUSING FORWARD INITIATIVE.

NOW IT'S A PLAN TO ADDRESS CITY'S LACK OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

THE CITY IS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 13,000 AND 28,000 UNITS SHORT OF OUR CURRENT NEEDS.

HOW DID WE GET HERE SO SHORT ON HOUSING?

>> Keller: IT IS ONE OF THESE THINGS, WE CAME OUT OF THE PANDEMIC, AND, LIKE YOU SAID, ALL OVER THE COUNTRY BUT ALSO HERE AND I REMEMBER HEARING RENTS ARE UP 41% AND TRYING TO THINK ABOUT WHAT CAN WE DO WITH RENT SUBSIDIES AND HOUSING STABILIZATION AND THOSE ARE STILL IMPORTANT DISCUSSIONS.

BUT THEN YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS AND THE NUMBERS THAT YOU JUST QUOTED ARE STAGGERING FOR OUR CITY.

30,000 UNITS?

YOU KNOW.

THIS IS ACTUALLY ACROSS EVERY SPECTRUM, MORE ACUTE CERTAINLY IN LOW INCOME AND AFFORDABLE BUT THE IRONY IS THE SITUATION IS SO BAD IN ALBUQUERQUE RIGHT NOW, LIKE ANY HOUSE RIGHT NOW IS HOPEFUL.

ONCE WE SAW THAT THE NUMBERS WERE THAT BIG, WE SAID WE ACTUALLY HAVE TO HAVE A RESPONSE THAT MATCHES NOT.

IT IS NOT A POST PANDEMIC PHENOMENA FOR US.

WE HAVE GOT BASICALLY, I THINK, ABOUT A FIVE-YEAR WINDOW TO GET THIS RIGHT IN ALBUQUERQUE OR ELSE WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A CITY THAT IS MUCH MORE AKIN TO SORT OF A PHOENIX, YOU KNOW, SUBURBAN TRACT HOUSING SORT OF SITUATION.

IT IS INEVITABLE UNLESS WE FIX THIS.

OF COURSE THAT LEADS TO ALL SORTS OF OTHER CHALLENGES.

>> Gene: YOU KNOW THE PLAN CALLS FOR CREATION OF 5,000 NEW AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS.

PRETTY AGGRESSIVE WHEN YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT THIS.

IS IT POSSIBLE, HONESTLY, IN THIS SHORT OF TIME PERIOD.

>> Keller: IT IS A REACH GOAL, CERTAINLY, I'LL ADMIT THAT, BUT I THINK WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS WE ARE TRYING TO COMBO GETTING A SITUATION WHERE THE PRIVATE SECTOR CAN FILL A LOT OF GAP AND THE NONPROFIT SECTOR AND THE CITY DOING SOME ON OUR OWN.

JUST VERY BRIEFLY, THE SLICE IS ABOUT US BUYING HOTELS AND CONVERTING THEM AND CHANGING THEM TO HOUSING AND ALSO INCENTIVIZING PARTNERS TO DO THAT TOO.

SO WE DO HAVE FUNDING TO DO THAT.

WE HAVE GOT SORT OF A GREEN LIGHT BETWEEN ANYWHERE TWO TO FOUR HOTELS WE ARE LOOKING AT FOR DOING THAT.

AND THE REST OF IT IS ABOUT GETTING OUR ZONING CODE IN A PLACE WHERE IT ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE FOR BOTH SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO LIVE IN A SHELTERED, YOU KNOW, FACILITY OF ANY KIND, WHETHER IT IS A FULL ON HOUSE OR AN APARTMENT OR DUPLEX OR CASITA OR WHATEVER, GETTING THAT TO A PLACE WHERE ALSO IT MAKES SENSE FOR THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO FILL THEM.

SO, THAT RIGHT NOW, WE ARE TOTALLY UPSIDE DOWN AS A CITY IN OUR ZONING CODE.

RIGHT NOW IT IS ALL ABOUT ONE STORY, SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE.

AND WE NEED DIVERSITY IN HOUSING TOO.

AND WE NEED ALL KINDS OF TYPES OF HOUSING TO BE AVAILABLE.

ALSO TO BE SUPPORTED BY OUR ZONING CODE.

IT IS A LONG, ABOUT A SIX-MONTH WINDOW, COUNCIL IS DIGESTING THIS AND THE COMMUNITY AND SO FORTH, BUT IF YOU PUT ALL THAT TOGETHER I THINK WE CAN GET NEAR 5,000.

>> Gene: LET ME GO BACK TO THE HOTEL BIT.

YOU SAY THERE IS ABOUT TWO TO FOUR HERE IN TOWN.

CAN YOU TELL US WHERE THOSE ARE?

>> Keller: IN TERMS OF THE CITY ACTUALLY LEADING IT, WE KNOW WE HAVE FIVE FUNDED, AND COUNCIL ACTUALLY GAVE US A BIG CHUCK OF FUNDING DO THIS.

LOOK, CONVERTING A HOTEL, THINK OF THE OLD RUN DOWN HOTELS ON CENTRAL OR MAYBE THE ONE BY LOS ALTOS.

YOU KNOW THIS MIGHT BE SOME EVEN LIKE OLD DESERT HILLS CAMPUS ON THE WESTSIDE.

THE IDEA IS IT CHEAPER AND FASTER.

MEANING IF YOU BUILD A BRAND NEW SET OF UNITS OBVIOUSLY THAT IS MOST EXPENSIVE WAY TO GO AND SO IT ALSO TAKES LONGEST.

SO IF WE CONVERT THESE, TYPICALLY YOU HAVE TO SUPPLY SORT OF KITCHENETTE TYPE CHANGES TO THE UNITS AND SO FORTH.

THEN MIX IN SUPPORTIVE HOUSING LIKE, ACTUAL, IF THERE ARE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH SITUATIONS OR MENTAL HEALTH SITUATIONS YOU ARE ACTUALLY GETTING THAT MENTAL HEALTH HELP IN THERE AND THAT CLINICAL HELP, IF THAT IS THE CASE, BUT IF IT IS JUST FOLKS IN GENERAL FOR DIFFERENT TYPES OF HOUSING YOU DON'T NEED THAT.

MIXING ALL THAT TOGETHER WITH HOTELS THAT HAVE THE RIGHT COMMUNITY SPACE OR SHARED KITCHEN SPACE OR NOT.

SO IT DEPENDS ON THE HOTEL IS THE SHORT QUESTION.

WE ARE IN CONVERSATION WITH, I THINK, 10 AS A WHOLE AND WE'LL DEFINITELY DO TWO.

WE WANT TO TRY AND DO MORE.

>> Gene: I AM INTERESTED IN THE SENSE OF OFFICE BUILDINGS AS WELL NOT JUST HOTELS.

WE HAVE A LOT OF EMPTY OFFICE SPACE HERE.

IS THAT A VIABLE SOLUTION FOR THE HOMELESS PROBLEM?

>> Keller: IT IS AND THIS IS PART -- I DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN THE ZONING REALLY BORING DISCUSSION BUT THIS ALSO IS BEING HELD UP BY ZONING CODE.

WE WANT TO MAKE IT EASY TO CONVERT A COMMERCIAL BUILDING TO RESIDENTIAL.

I THINK IN SOME WAYS ACTUALLY GOVERNMENT JUST HAS TO SORT OF SET UP THE PLAYING FIELD FOR THIS AND NONPROFITS AND PRIVATE SECTOR CAN ACTUALLY DO IT.

BUT THEY HAVE BEEN VERY CLEAR BOTH -- ANYONE IN THIS WORLD WILL TELL YOU LIKE RIGHT NOW THE CITY ENVIRONMENT, YOU JUST CAN'T DO THIS.

IT IS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO DO THE CONVERSION THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED AND THEN CASITAS ARE ANOTHER ASPECT OF THIS.

>> Gene: LET'S TALK ABOUT CASITAS.

WE HAD A LOT OF FEEDBACK ABOUT CASITAS ESPECIALLY FROM OUR VIEWERSHIP.

IT RINGS A BELL.

SOME FOLKS ARE VERY MUCH FOR THEM.

SOME FOLKS REALLY ARE VERY AFRAID OF THEM.

ANY EARLY INDICATIONS ON THE SIZE OF THE CASITAS THAT MIGHT BE ALLOWABLE BESIDES THE LOT YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE AS A MINIMUM SIZE?

ARE WE DOWN THE ROAD THAT FAR.

WHERE SHOULD FOLKS BE THINKING ABOUT CASITAS AT THIS POINT?

>> Keller: THE KEY IS THE DEFAULT.

THE DEFAULT FOR ALBUQUERQUE RIGHT NOW IS NO, YOU CAN'T CONVERT A HOTEL.

NO, YOU CAN'T CONVERT A COMMERCIAL BUILDING TO REAL STATE.

NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE A CASITA.

WE WANT TO SHIFT, AT LEAST FOR SOME AREAS OR IN CERTAIN PLACES WHERE IT MAKES SENSE, WE WANT TO SHIFT THAT TO YES BUT THEN THERE IS ALWAYS YOU CAN OBJECT AND SO FORTH.

THAT IS STILL GOING TO BE THERE.

IT IS ABOUT CHANGING THE DEFAULT FOR HOW WE GROW.

>> Gene: A LOT OF THE NORTH VALLEY FOLKS THAT WE HEAR FROM ARE ESPECIALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE CASITA IDEA, MEANING THERE ARE CASITAS IN PLACE.

IF YOU GO THROUGH THE NORTH VALLEY, THEY ARE EVERYWHERE.

AS AN EX-BUILDER, I BUILT SOME YEARS AGO, 20 YEARS AGO.

IT CAN BE A DIFFICULTY NO BUILD A CASITA ON A PRIVATE SMALL LOT.

THERE IS A LOT OF INTERRUPTION FOR THE NEIGHBORS, ALL THESE THINGS YOU YET TO BE DECIDED OR ARE YOU COMFORTABLE THAT WE CAN GET THE CASITA IDEA OFF THE GROUND WITH ALL THE OBJECTIONS THAT MIGHT, IN FACT, HAPPEN.

>> Keller: I AM ONLY BECAUSE I DO BELIEVE IN SORT OF THE POWER OF ACTUALLY POLICY MAKING.

AND WE ARE GOING TO DEBATE THIS WORK IT OUT IN TERMS OF EVEN, YEAH, THE SPACING AND LIKE HOW BIG YOUR LOT HAS TO BE.

SO, ALL OF THOSE ARE NOW, THERE IS A FIRST PLACE HOLDER THAT WENT TO THE EPC, THIS COMMITTEE THAT STARTS WITH THAT.

SO THEY HAVE THE PLACEHOLDER.

WE KNOW THEY ARE GOING TO CHANGE IT.

AND COUNCIL MIGHT CHANGE IT.

THERE IS HISTORIC OVERLAYS.

ANY NEIGHBORHOOD, LIKE A LOT OF NORTH VALLEY NEIGHBORHOODS IT IS NOT GOING TO APPLY TO THEM ANYWAY, BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HAVE HISTORIC OVERLAYS ON TOP OF IT.

SO I THINK THEY ARE REALLY IN A MUCH BETTER SITUATION BECAUSE THEY HAVE ALREADY DEALT WITH THESE ISSUES.

BUT WHEN YOU THINK OF JUST THE VAST SORT OF MIDTOWN AREA OR YOU THINK ABOUT AREAS ON THE WESTSIDE, THEY DON'T HAVE HISTORIC OVERLAYS AND DON'T HAVE RULES AND REGULATIONS ON THERE, AND THAT IS REALLY WHAT WE NEED.

IT IS TIME AS A CITY.

WE ARE GROWING UP AND WE HAVE TO HAVE POLICIES THAT MATCH.

>> Gene: THAT IS A KEY DISTINCTION.

I HAVE GOT TO ASK YOU THIS QUESTION.

I HAVE ASKED SOME OF THE GUESTS WE HAVE HAD ON THIS IDEA OF HOUSING SO FAR.

ARE WE READY TO GO VERTICAL HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE?

MEANING, JUST LIKE YOU SAID A FEW MINUTES AGO, WE CAN'T KEEP SPREADING PHOENIX LIKE WITH SINGLE-STORY QUARTER ACRE LOTS, BUT THERE IS A LOT OF RESISTENCE TO GOING ABOVE A CERTAIN SORT OF HEIGHT.

IS IT TIME FOR US TO CHANGE ON THAT AND CAN WE CHANGE IN GOING VERTICAL?

>> Keller: I THINK WHAT CAME OUT OF MY REALIZATION THIS SUMMER FROM READING THE STUDIES IS THAT WE HAVE TO.

IT IS ACTUALLY NOT REALLY A CHOICE.

THE ONLY CHOICE IS THEN TO HAVE LIKE IT WOULD SORT OF CREATE LIKE BELEN AND LOS LUNAS WOULD BE THESE GIANT CITIES 30 YEARS FROM NOW IF WE GO THE WAY WE ARE GOING.

SO, I MEAN, IF YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE IN ALBUQUERQUE AS SORT OF THE METRO CENTER AND COMMERCIAL CENTER FOR THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO, WE HAVE TO GROW UP A LITTLE BIT.

BUT, THE GOOD THING IS WHERE WE DO THAT, HOW HIGH IS HIGH?

YOU KNOW, THREE STORIES, FIVE STORIES?

I THINK WE CAN TAKE THAT IN A GRADUAL WAY AND THROUGH A PUBLIC PROCESS.

I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

THE EDO, WHICH NOW WE EVEN SAY THE WORD EDO AND WE DON'T HAVE TO SAY WHAT IT MEANS.

10 YEARS AGO PEOPLE WOULD SAY, WELL, WHAT DOES EDO MEAN?

AND WHEN WE REDID THE ZONING IN THERE, THIS WAS PART OF IT, WE ALLOWED PEOPLE TO GO UP MORE STORIES.

AND SO, I THINK, WE CAN ALSO DO IT TACTFULLY AND SMARTLY IN THE AREAS OF TOWN WHERE IT MAKES SENSE.

THE GOOD THING IS, ONE THING WE DO HAVE IS A ROBUST PLANNING AND ZONING PROCESS.

NONE OF THIS EVER HAPPENS WITHOUT YEARS OF DEBATE AND POLICY MAKING.

SO, THAT IS APPROPRIATE AND SO I DO THINK THESE ARE THE ISSUES WE DO HAVE TO FACE BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE SHORT 30,000 HOUSES, YOU CAN'T AVOID IT.

SO, EITHER RENTS ARE GOING TO SKY ROCKET AND PRICE EVERYONE OUT OR WE GET THIS BIZARRE DYNAMIC WHERE WE ARE THIS TINY CITY SURROUNDED BY A HUGE SUBURB.

>> Gene: IS THIS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR MORE DENSITY, IN FACT?

IF WE DO THIS SMART, CAN WE PACK PEOPLE IN?

NOT TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE SARDINES, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING.

THERE IS BENEFITS TO NEIGHBORHOODS BEING VERY CLOSELY PACKED TOGETHER.

IS THAT PART OF THE PROCESS IN YOUR PLANNING HERE, MAYOR?

ARE YOU THINKING WE CAN GET TO SOME KIND OF URBAN DENSITY WHICH CHANGES TRANSPORTATION ISSUES, CHANGES A LOT OF DIFFERENT ISSUES OUT THERE.

>> Keller: MAKES THINGS LIKE THE RAIL TRAIL WE ARE BUILDING WHICH IS A PEDESTRIAN PARKWAY AND THAT BECOMES MEANINGFUL FOR COMMUTING IF YOU HAVE DENSITY AROUND THERE.

I WOULD SAY THIS, LOOK, OUR CITY, THERE IS SOME REALLY GOOD NEWS HERE, IT IS THE RIGHT TIME FOR ALBUQUERQUE TO DO THIS.

CITIES LIKE BOSTON, OTHER CITIES, BOSTON, THEY ARE WAY TOO LATE, LIKE IT IS TOO FAR GONE.

BUT WHAT I THINK ABOUT DENSITY INFILL IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND WE ALL CAN DRIVE AROUND TOWN AND SEE DILAPIDATED WAREHOUSE AREAS THAT COULD BE USED FOR A BETTER USE.

AND, RIGHT KNOW IT WOULD BE FOR HOUSING.

SO I THINK THERE ABSOLUTELY IS OPPORTUNITY FOR INFILL AND BY DEFINITION THAT IS GOING CONTINUE TO INCREASE DENSITY, BUT THEN YOU GET THE OTHER ASPECTS AND BENEFITS AROUND PUBLIC TRANSIT AND SO FORTH.

AND FOR US, YOU KNOW, EVEN WHETHER IT IS POLICE AND FIRE COVERAGE, THAT IS ALWAYS A BETTER RETURN ON INVESTMENT THAN TRYING TO DO IT WAY OUT IN GREEN FIELD DEVELOPMENTS WAY OUT, SORT OF OUTSIDE OF THE CITY WHERE IT IS VERY EXPENSIVE.

BUT LASTLY I WOULD SAY THE FUNNY THING IS, YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS WILL BE DONE TO US, ANYWAY.

THAT IS HOW BIG THE PROBLEM IS.

WE ARE GOING TO GET MORE DENSE.

THE QUESTION IS, ARE WE GOING TO DO IT IN A WAY THAT IS PLANNED AND THOUGHTFUL AND EQUITABLE OR ARE WE JUST GOING TO LEAVE IT TO THE RULES OF THE GAME NOW WHICH REALLY RUN THE RISK OF CREATING TERRIBLE SORT OF POCKETS OF POORLY PLANNED DEVELOPMENT AND TRANSIT AND PUBLIC SAFETY AND THINGS LIKE THIS.

SO, NOW IS THE TIME.

THIS REALLY IS A UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY FOR OUR CITY.

PROBABLY THE MOST UNIQUE IN 50 YEARS, SINCE THE 70'S, WHERE WE CAN DEFINE WHAT THE CITY IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE FOR THE NEXT 70 YEARS.

>> Gene: RENTS HAVE SPIKED, MAYOR, AS YOU KNOW, TREMENDOUSLY IN THE CITY, TREMENDOUSLY.

A LOT OF FOLKS ARE REALLY UNDER THE GUN FINANCIALLY BECAUSE OF IT.

HOW SOON CAN YOU SEE RELIEF COMING AND THE SECOND QUESTION AND PROBABLY THE FIRST QUESTION IS WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER AFFORDABLE?

WE HEAR THE ADMINISTRATION SAYING AFFORDABLE, AFFORDABLE.

WHAT IS AFFORDABLE IN A MEDIUM PRICE OF RENT NOW IS ABOUT 1200 HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

THIS IS JUST NOT AFFORDABLE FOR A LOT OF FOLKS.

WHAT IS AFFORDABLE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING?

>> Keller: IT DOES DEPEND IF IT IS AFFORDABLE FOR A FAMILY OR A SINGLE PERSON.

AND YOU KNOW SORT OF WHAT IS ON THE OTHER END OF THEIR UTILITY COSTS AND TRANSPORTATION COSTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

I WOULD LEAVE THE DOLLAR NUMBER TO THE EXPERTS OR FOLKS THAT YOU TALK TO ON THIS SHOW BUT I WOULD SAY THIS, ONE IS, IT IS DEFINITELY TOO HIGH.

AND THERE IS SORT OF TWO ASPECTS IN THE SHORT TERM.

WE ARE LOOKING AT RENT STABILIZATION FUND, HOPEFULLY IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE STATE, BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF EXTRA MONEY AT THE STATE AS WE HAVE HEARD.

THIS IS A GREAT WAY TO USE SOME OF IT, TO JUST TAMP DOWN THE RENTS FOR SEVERAL YEARS UNTIL THE ONLY SOLUTION IS MORE HOUSING.

I MEAN, IT DOES GO BACK TO MORE HOUSING AT THE END OF THE DAY.

THAT IS HOW YOU REALLY LOWER RENT IS TO ADD MORE HOUSING.

>> Gene: ARE YOU TALKING MONEY GOING TO BUILDERS OR RENTERS FOR RENT ABATEMENT OR HOW WOULD YOU SEE THE MONEY BEING USED?

>> Keller: I THINK RENT ABATEMENT IN THE SHORT TERM IS WHERE WE HAVE GOT TO GO.

NOW THERE IS OTHER ASPECTS OF THIS WHERE WE CAN WORK IT THROUGH THE OWNERS.

I AM OPEN TO THAT TOO BUT IT HAS TO ACTUALLY BRING DOWN THE RENT.

SO, THIS IS SOMETHING WE DID A LITTLE BIT DURING THE PANDEMIC AND BASICALLY IT IS ANOTHER VERSION OF THAT WITH MORE MONEY FOR A LONGER TIME PERIOD.

BUT THERE IS ALSO DISCRIMINATION AND SO WE HAVE NOW PASSED ORDINANCES IN THE CITY AND HAVE OUR CIVIL RIGHTS OFFICE TASKED UP WITH RENTERS' DISCRIMINATION IN THE SENSE LIKE IF YOU'RE GETTING A VOUCHER AND THEY WON'T RENT TO YOU, THAT IS ILLEGAL.

WE ARE LOOKING TO ACTIVELY PROSECUTE THAT TO MAKE SURE THE MESSAGE IS SENT THAT YOU CAN'T DO THAT.

SO, THAT IS ALSO PART OF THE PUZZLE TOO BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GETTING -- WE DON'T WANT TO SAY YOU'RE PART OF THE HOUSING STABILIZATION FUND AND THEN HAVE LANDLORDS SAY WE DON'T WANT THAT KIND OF PERSON IN OUR BUILDING.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO ALLOW THAT.

THERE IS OTHER ASPECTS WE HAVE TO BUILD IN TO MAKE THAT FUND WORK BUT ALBUQUERQUE IS READY.

WE HAVE THE CIVIL RIGHTS OFFICE ON THAT AND READY TO GO.

>> Gene: INTERESTING.

ANYBODY IN THE LEGISLATURE READY TO CARRY THIS FOR YOU?

ARE YOU EXPECTING ACTION OUT OF THE LEGISLATURE THIS SESSION?

>> Keller: I AM.

I KNOW A LOT OF FOLKS ARE TALKING ABOUT.

SENATOR LOPEZ HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS AND SO MANY OF THE URBAN CENTERS HAVE MENTIONED IT AND HOUSE REPS TOO.

WE DON'T HAVE SPECIFIC BILLS AND SO FORTH LINED UP BUT I KNOW EVEN BACK RIGHT BEFORE THE PANDEMIC WHEN WE, AGAIN, HAD A LOT OF EXTRA MONEY, THERE WAS EVEN AN IDEA TO JUST MAKE A CHUNK OF IT TO BUILD HOUSING AND THEN LEASE IT OUT TO NONPROFITS TO DO THIS.

THAT IS SOMETHING, LOOK, WE DO NEED THIS STATE-WIDE, SO, I THINK THE GOOD NEWS IS WE LOVE AN ALL-THE-ABOVE APPROACH.

ANY TOOL IS A GOOD TOOL.

FOR THE LEGISLATURE, WHATEVER THEY WANT TO COME UP WITH, WE'LL BACK IT.

>> Gene: IT WAS GREAT TO CATCH UP WITH THE MAYOR ON HOUSING BUT WE ARE NOT DONE WITH HIM YET.

DURING PART 2 OF MY INTERVIEW I ASK THE MAYOR WHY HE THINKS THE CITY SHOULD CONSIDER SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES AS PART OF THE EQUATION ON SOLVING HOMELESSNESS.

THAT IS COMING UP IN LESS THAN 30 MINUTES.

RIGHT NOW LET'S WELCOME IN THE LINE OPINION PANELISTS FOR THE WEEK.

JOINING ME AT THE VIRTUAL ROUND TABLE, WE HAVE MERRITT ALLEN FROM VOX OPTIMA PUBLIC RELATIONS, OUR MAN, MICHAEL BIRD, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION.

HE IS WITH US THIS WEEK.

AND WE ARE PLEASED TO HAVE JULIE ANN GRIMM, EDITOR AND PUBLISHER AT SANTA FE REPORTER.

WE ARE LOOKING AHEAD TO THE UPCOMING 2023 LEGISLATIVE SESSION, OF COURSE.

THIS WEEK WE HAVE NEW INDICATIONS ON WHAT THE DEMOCRATIC AGENDA COULD BE.

GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM WAS SWORN IN FOR HER SECOND TERM LATE LAST WEEK.

AND DURING HER INAUGURATION CEREMONY SHE TALKED ABOUT HER GOALS FOR NEW MEXICO FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS.

SHE LAID OUT SEVERAL PRIORITIES MENTIONING THINGS LIKE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, HOMELESSNESS AND EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION.

WE'LL GET INTO SOME OF THOSE TOPICS IN A MOMENT BUT LET'S START WITH AN OVERARCHING THEME.

MERRITT ALLEN, START WITH YOU, WHICH WAS HEALTHCARE.

THE GOVERNOR SAYS SHE WANTS TO CREATE A NEW MEXICO HEALTHCARE AUTHORITY.

SHE WANTS TO COVER ALL PUBLIC SCHOOL EMPLOYEES' HEALTHCARE PREMIUM COSTS AND SHE WANTS TO CODIFY THE RIGHT TO GET AN ABORTION.

WITH A DEMOCRAT MAJORITY ON THE HOUSE, MERRITT, ARE THESE HEALTHCARE GOALS REALISTIC OR JUST OVERLY AMBITIOUS?

GOT TO THROW IT ALL OUT THERE BEFORE THE SESSION STARTS.

HOW DO YOU SEE THIS AT THIS POINT.

>> Merritt: I SEE THIS AS JUST MORE MONEY WITHOUT NECESSARILY A LOT OF SOLUTIONS ALTHOUGH I AM VERY INTERESTED TO HEAR WHAT MICHAEL HAS TO SAY ABOUT THE HEALTHCARE AGENCY.

I JUST SEE THAT AS ANOTHER LAYER OF THE ADMINISTRATION THAT PERHAPS IS NOT DELIVERING HEALTH CARE.

COVERING HEALTHCARE PREMIUMS WITH TEACHERS, IS THAT GOING TO IMPROVE SCHOOL SCORES OR EDUCATIONAL OUTCOMES, NO.

>> Gene: MERRITT, MIGHT IT ATTRACT MORE PEOPLE TO THE BUSINESS OF TEACHING WHICH WE DESPERATELY NEED?

>> Merritt: MAYBE.

I DON'T KNOW.

WE POUR MONEY INTO PED.

WE HAVE ALREADY SUNK SO MUCH MONEY INTO EARLY CHILDHOOD, WE HAVE AN EARLY CHILDHOOD INVESTMENT FUND, NOW WE HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT TO RAID THE PERMANENT FUND FOR EARLY CHILDHOOD.

ONE THING SHE NEVER MENTIONED WAS CHILD WELFARE, WHICH IS A DIFFERENT THING, WHICH IS CYFD, WHICH IS A TREMENDOUS ISSUE.

BUT, OF COURSE, THIS WAS AN INAUGURAL SPEECH WHICH IS REALLY A SOFT SPEECH.

SHE IS GOING TO TALK ABOUT HAPPY STUFF.

I THINK WE ARE GOING TO HEAR THE REAL NITTY-GRITTY IN THE STATE OF THE STATE SPEECH IN A FEW WEEKS.

>> Gene: THAT IS A GOOD DISTINCTION.

I APPRECIATE YOU MENTIONING THAT.

THAT IS A GOOD DISTINCTION FOR FOLKS TO KEEP IN MIND.

MICHAEL, THE GOVERNOR ALSO MENTIONED TACKLING POVERTY AND HOMELESSNESS, SAYING SHE WOULD PUSH TO EXPAND ACCESS TO PUBLIC AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

NOW THIS HAS BEEN TRICKY HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE, AS YOU KNOW, AND AS WE'LL DISCUSS LATER IN THE LINE IS THE GOVERNOR MAKING THE RIGHT CHOICE TO FOCUS ON STATE-WIDE SOLUTIONS TO THIS HOUSING SITUATION?

SHOULD SHE BE HONING IN ON SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT FINER LIKE WHERE THE PROBLEM IS?

>> Michael: FIRST OF ALL, LET ME SAY, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, POVERTY REALLY IS THE UNDERLYING ISSUE IN NEW MEXICO.

I MEAN BEING -- THIS IS NOTHING NEW TO ANY ONE OF US OR ANYBODY WHO IS PAYING ATTENTION IN TERMS OF OUR NATIONAL RATING IN TERMS OF ONE OF THE STATES THAT HAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST POVERTY RATES AND, YOU KNOW, MANY OF THE ISSUES, AGAIN, ARE MULTI-FACETED AND, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE NO SIMPLE SOLUTIONS TO THE ISSUES THAT WE ARE CONFRONTED BY.

I THINK THAT AS FAR AS WHAT THE GOVERNOR IS PROPOSING TO THE LEGISLATURE, UNTIL WE REALLY SEE SOMETHING SPECIFIC, IT IS REALLY HARD TO, I THINK, COMMENT ON, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS -- WHAT SHE IS PROPOSING AND HOW THAT WILL ROLL OUT.

ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK THAT IS MY CONCERN AS WELL AS CONCERN OF MANY PEOPLE IS THE CHILDREN, YOUTH AND FAMILIES DIVISION AND THE PRESS AND STORIES ABOUT HOW CHILDREN HAVE NOT BEEN WELL ATTENDED TO AND SOME OF THE TRAGEDIES THAT HAVE OCCURRED.

AND SO IT IS ONE THING TO CREATE A SYSTEM.

IT IS ONE THING.

BUT IT IS ANOTHER THING TO REALLY ENSURE THAT THERE IS ACCOUNTABILITY AND THAT THOSE SYSTEMS ARE FUNCTIONING IN THE MANNER THAT THEY WERE ESTABLISHED AND THAT THEY ARE MEETING THE NEEDS OF CHILDREN AND THE COMMUNITY.

AND UNTIL YOU HAVE THAT, IT IS A LITTLE -- YOU KNOW -- I AM NOT SAYING, YOU KNOW, BUT THAT IS, I THINK, SOMETHING IF ONE IS GOING TO PAY ATTENTION TO SOMETHING, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT REALLY DESERVES SOME ATTENTION.

SO I HOPE THERE IS SOME FOCUS ON THAT AND GETTING -- MAKING SURE THAT SYSTEM IS FUNCTIONING AND PROTECTING CHILDREN AND FAMILIES.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

CYFD IS STILL SORT OF HANGING OUT THERE, ABSOLUTELY.

JULIE ANN, SWITCH JUST A BIT OF A GEAR HERE.

A FEW DAYS BEFORE THE INAUGURATION THE GOVERNOR APPOINTED THREE CANDIDATES TO THE PUBLIC REGULATION COMMISSION.

SHE CHOSE A FORMER STATE LAWMAKER AND TWO PUBLIC UTILITIES EXPERTS.

NOTABLY LEFT OFF THE COMMISSION IS A NATIVE AMERICAN PERSPECTIVE.

GIVEN THE VESTED INTEREST OF TRIBAL COMMUNITIES IN THE NORTHWESTERN PART OF OUR STATE, AS YOU KNOW, IS IT A MISTAKE TO NOT HAVE A TRIBAL VOICE ON THE PRC AS OPPOSED TO -- YOU'LL CLUE US IN HOW SHE DID IT -- FIRST THINGS FIRST.

WAS THAT A MISTAKE NOT HAVING A NATIVE VOICE ON THE COUNCIL?

>> Julie Ann: I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, IT IS GOOD TO BACK UP A LITTLE BIT AND TALK ABOUT THE PROCESS THAT NEW MEXICO IS EMBARKING ON.

THIS IS A BRAND NEW THING.

WE HAVE HAD AN ELECTED PUBLIC REGULATION COMMISSION WITH FIVE MEMBERS NOW WE ARE SWITCHING TO AN APPOINTED COMMISSION WITH THREE MEMBERS.

AND THE APPOINTMENT PROCESS WAS CRAFTED TO MIMIC THE JUDICIAL APPOINTMENT PROCESS.

THE COMMITTEE STARTED WITH 62 APPLICANTS.

15 OF THEM WERE THEN INTERVIEWED BY THIS COMMITTEE WHICH FAMOUSLY INCLUDED LEGISLATORS AND A NUMBER OF OTHER FOLKS.

AND THEN THERE WAS A SHORT LIST OF NINE THAT WENT TO THE GOVERNOR AND SHE CHOSE THREE FROM THE SHORT LIST.

SO, I THINK IF YOU SORT OF LOOK AT THE BROADER REPRESENTATION, IT IS INSTRUCTIVE IN ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION.

I THINK IT ALSO IS NOTEWORTHY THAT THE SUPREME COURT SHOT DOWN A SORT OF 11TH HOUR PIECE OF LITIGATION ATTEMPTING TO INJECT MORE DIVERSITY AND REALLY THERE WERE SOME GEOGRAPHIC REQUIREMENTS ABOUT COULD BE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PEOPLE FROM CERTAIN COUNTIES BUT THERE IS NOTHING IN THE CRITERIA THAT SAYS YOU HAVE TO PICK THE ONE FROM INDIAN COUNTRY.

YOU HAVE TO PICK THE ONE THAT LIVES IN ONE OF THE PLACES LIKE THE SAN JUAN OR PERMIAN BASIN.

THE CHOOSING OF THE THREE PEOPLE FOR THIS HIGHLY SPECIALIZED SMALL BOARD, REALLY THERE WAS A LOT THAT WENT INTO IT, BUT THE SUPREME COURT, THEY CONSIDERED THIS CASE AND SAID, NO, THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT WAS PROPERLY BROUGHT FORTH AND IT WAS CLEAR AND WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW IS WHAT PEOPLE VOTED FOR.

AND SO I THINK THAT WE ARE IN A POSITION WHERE WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT.

THE OTHER SORT OF INTERESTING POLITICAL WRINKLE IS WHEN THE THREE SELECTED COMMISSIONERS WERE ANNOUNCED, THE GOVERNOR ALSO ANNOUNCED THIS NEW ADVISORY COMMITTEE WHICH SHE IS CALLING THE TRIBAL ADVISORY COUNCIL AND IT HAS REQUIREMENTS OF MEMBERSHIP FROM KIND OF SEVERAL DIFFERENT QUARTERS, BUT, AGAIN, THIS IS A SMALL GROUP THAT SHE IS CALLING FOR THE CREATION OF, AND FOR THAT GROUP TO THEN ADVISE THE PEOPLE THAT REALLY HAVE THE POWER, LIKE THAT IS A LITTLE -- THAT IS LIKE TOO LITTLE TOO LATE ON THAT FRONT.

IT IS KIND OF TRYING TO MAKE UP FOR THE FACT THAT, YEAH, THERE IS NO NATIVES ON THE BOARD AND ALSO THERE IS NO WOMEN ON THE PRC, WHICH I THINK IS AN ISSUE.

AND, REALLY, THOUGH, I AM CURIOUS TO SEE HOW THE FIRST DECISIONS KIND OF ROLL OUT AND HOW THE HEARINGS GO.

BECAUSE, THE PRC DOESN'T GET A LOT OF ATTENTION UNTIL THINGS ARE UGLY AND LIKE THEY ARE PRETTY UGLY RIGHT NOW.

>> Gene: MICHAEL, YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT, THE IDEA THAT THIS ADVISORY COMMITTEE, NO VOTING RESPONSIBILITY.

HOW DOES THAT HIT YOUR GUT?

>> Michael: WELL, TO BE HONEST, IT STINKS.

UNDER THE PREVIOUS SYSTEM THERE WAS NATIVE REPRESENTATION.

IN NEW MEXICO WE LIKE TO TALK ABOUT HOW MULTICULTURAL WE ARE AND HOW WE ARE ALL KUMBAYA AND YOU KNOW THERE IS A LOT OF THAT SORT OF FACADE.

THE REALITY IS THERE IS SUCH A THING AS TRIBAL SOVEREIGNTY AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RECOGNIZES IT.

THE STATE GOVERNMENT HAS RECOGNIZED IT AS WELL IN MANY WAYS.

BUT, WHEN IT COMES TO THIS, NO NATIVE REPRESENTATION, IT IS AN AFFRONT.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE NATIVE -- THERE ARE QUALIFIED NATIVE PEOPLE WHO DESERVE TO HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE AND THE FACT THERE IS NO -- WE ARE 11% OF THE POPULATION.

WE HAVE SIGNIFICANT HOLDINGS IN TERMS OF LAND, BUSINESSES HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

WE GENERATE INCREDIBLE REVENUE FOR THE STATE AND TO NOT -- I THINK IT IS INSULTING.

AND TO BE, TO CREATE, THEN, A TOKEN ADVISORY GROUP WHERE NOBODY HAS TO LISTEN TO THEM.

THEY CAN VOICE THEIR CONCERNS BUT, IT'S, WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> Gene: AND GETTING TO MEET ONCE A QUARTER?

THAT IS BIZARRE TO ME.

I DON'T GET THAT.

BOUNCE TO MERRITT HERE REAL QUICK.

IS THE PROBLEM THE NUMBERS HERE?

I HAVE OFTEN FELT, AND NOW HERE WE ARE, THAT DOING THREE VERSUS FIVE ON THE PRC, SOMEONE WAS GOING TO LOSE.

AND NOW WE HAVE MR. LITTLE, MICHAEL MENTIONED, NOT BY NAME, WHO WAS A PERFECTLY QUALIFIED NATIVE AMERICAN MAN AND NO WOMEN, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN TWO PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN GOOD TO HAVE ON THE PRC, DID WE BASICALLY SCREW THIS UP FUNDAMENTALLY BY MAKING THIS A THREE-SEAT -- >> Merritt: YOU ALSO LOSE REGIONAL COVERAGE AT THE SAME TIME.

BUT, ALSO, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE GOALS AND I THINK THE REASON VOTERS VOTED TO PROFESSIONALIZE THE PRC, IF YOU WILL, WAS TO TRY AND STREAMLINE THE PROCESS BECAUSE THE REGULATORY CLIMATE IN NEW MEXICO IS A MESS.

AND THAT IS WHY WE CAN'T -- ONE MAJOR REASON WHY WE CAN'T ATTRACT BUSINESSES TO OUR STATE.

SO, I DON'T THINK A FIVE PERSON PANEL IS TOO LARGE.

YOU CAN CERTAINLY GET CONSENSUS AND MOVE BUSINESS FORWARD WITH FIVE PEOPLE.

AND THEN SAY THAT YOU SHALL NOT HAVE MORE THAN THREE OF ANY MAJOR POLITICAL PARTY, SO YOU COULD HAVE THREE D'S, TWO R'S.

THAT WOULD BE FINE.

I THINK THAT SIZE WOULD PROBABLY MAKE MORE SENSE FOR COVERAGE AND FOR SKILL SETS.

YOU KNOW, NOT HAVING SOMEBODY OUT OF THE NATIONAL ENERGY LABS, CONSIDERING WE ARE AN ENERGY PRODUCING STATE AND WE NEED MORE CONSIDERATION OF HOW WE MOVE FORWARD FROM FOSSIL FUEL TO A SUSTAINABLE RENEWABLE ENERGY ECONOMY.

WE NEED MORE LEGAL EXPERTISE AS WE TRY AND STREAMLINE OUR BYZANTINE REGULATORY, REALLY AD HOC, BYZANTINE REGULATORY CLIMATE.

WE SEEM TO COME UP WITH REGULATIONS ON THE FLY AS ISSUES COME UP AND IT IS NOT A GOOD SITUATION.

SO, I FEEL LIKE THE CURRENT PRC SITUATION IS AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE THINGS BETTER.

IT IS NOT A COMPLETE SOLUTION FOR THE REASONS THAT HAVE JUST BEEN BROUGHT UP.

>> Gene: THAT IS JOSEPH D. LITTLE BY THE WAY.

I NEED TO GET HIS NAME OUT THERE.

HE IS THE FORMER JOINT COUNSEL TO THE ALL INDIAN PUEBLO COUNCIL AND I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A PROUD -- I DON'T KNOW -- IT IS A VERY INTERESTING THING.

WHO COULD SAY THIS MAN IS NOT QUALIFIED TO BE ON THE PRC.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMEBODY CONVINCE ME OF THAT.

GOT TO MOVE ON THOUGH.

THANKS TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL FOR THAT ONE.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK HERE IN LESS THAN ONE MINUTE TO TALK ABOUT THE LATEST DEVELOPMENTS IN ALBUQUERQUE'S DEBATE OVER SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES.

>> Keller: I NEVER SAID THAT IT IS BE ALL END ALL TO ANYTHING.

I THINK IT IS A SMALL TOOL THAT WE SHOULD TRY.

AND, AGAIN, WE ARE -- LOOK IN ALBUQUERQUE, WE HAVE A LOT OF CHALLENGES.

SO I AM OPEN TO ANY IDEA THAT MIGHT WORK AND SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES IS ONE OF THEM, BUT I THINK IT REALLY IS ONLY APPLICABLE TO A SMALL AMOUNT OF FOLKS BUT WE STILL SHOULD TRY IT.

>> Gene: WELCOME BACK TO OUR LINE PANELISTS.

WE'LL HEAR FROM THE MAYOR ON THIS ISSUE IN ABOUT 10 MINUTES AND THAT IS SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES.

IT HAS BEEN A CONTENTIOUS TOPIC FOR ALBUQUERQUE CITY COUNCIL.

LAST MONTH, COUNCIL VOTED 5 TO 4 TO OUTLAW SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES.

THAT DECISION WAS MET WITH A REPEAT VETO FROM MAYOR KELLER AND ANOTHER VETO, OVERRIDE THIS TIME, ATTEMPT THAT FELL SHORT WEDNESDAY NIGHT.

AFTER THREE VETOES FROM THE MAYOR ON THIS ISSUE, SHOULD THE COUNCIL RECONSIDER THEIR APPROACH HERE?

MERRITT ALLEN, OR IS THIS A START OF ANOTHER YEAR WHERE THE COUNCIL AND MAYOR JUST GO BACK AND FORTH ON THIS ISSUE?

>> Merritt: I THINK IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE COUNCIL AND MAYOR MAY BE DEBATING SAFE OPEN SPACES UP UNTIL THE 2025 MAYORAL ELECTION.

IT IS VOTE BADMINTON.

WE HAVE REALLY THE CLENCHER VOTE IS DISTRICT JUDY JONES, WHO IS NOT RUNNING FOR REELECTION, FROM WHAT I HAVE READ.

AND SHE HAS A PRETTY SAFE REPUBLICAN SEAT.

I THINK IT IS LIKELY THE REPUBLICAN WHO DOES NOT REPLACE HER WILL DECLARE FOR ELECTION THIS YEAR, STATE REPUBLICAN SEAT, WILL NOT SHARE HER VIEW THAT SAFE OPEN SPACES ARE A GOOD IDEA.

SO IT HAS GOT TO HAPPEN THIS YEAR.

THE IMPASSE HAS TO BE BROKEN THIS YEAR.

THERE IS THAT POLITICAL REALITY AND THEN I THINK THERE IS JUST A GENERAL FRUSTRATION THAT THE CITY IS FEELING.

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS HAVE GONE INTO THE EFFORT FOR THE HOMELESS.

WE HAVE, AS A RESULT, A 30-UNIT TINY HOMES VILLAGE THAT WAS BUILT AT A COST OF OVER $800 PER SQUARE FOOT.

THAT IS A LOT NICER THAN MY HOUSE.

THE 14 MILLION DOLLAR GATEWAY CENTER OPENING NEXT WEEK, WHICH WILL YIELD 50 BEDS, SO THAT IS ABOUT $280 PER BED.

SO, WE ARE SEEING LONG DELAYED PROJECTS, LOTS OF MONEY AND 80 BEDS COMING OUT OF IT.

THAT IS -- WE HAVE A LOT MORE HOMELESS THAN WE ARE CREATING OVERNIGHT BEDS OR TRANSITIONAL HOMES FOR THEM.

MEANWHILE WE DON'T HAVE MUCH OF A PLAN AS OPPOSED TO WELL, LET'S JUST, YOU KNOW, HAVE AD HOC CAMPGROUNDS.

WE HAD CORONADO PARK WHICH JUST BLOSSOMED EXPONENTIALLY AND IT SEEMS LIKE WITH THIS SAFE OPEN SPACE INITIATIVE WE ARE TRYING TO PUT TOOTHPASTE BACK INTO THE TUBE.

WITH THE RULES, WITH THE REGULATIONS, I THINK SOME OF THE MOST PROBLEMATIC UNHOUSED INDIVIDUALS ARE NOT GOING TO GO THERE.

AND SO THE CORE ISSUE THAT EVERYONE IS SO CONCERNED ABOUT WITH REGARD TO SANITATION, CRIME, DRUGS, IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

WE STILL HAVE THE FREE PUBLIC TRANSIT WHICH IS CAUSING PROBLEMS WITH CRIME AND SANITATION ON OUR PUBLIC BUSES.

THAT IS NOT WHAT EVERY HOMELESS PERSON IS.

BUT IT IS CREATING A LABEL AND A STIGMA ON EVERYONE WHO IS FACING HOMELESSNESS THAT I THINK WAS NOT THE INTENT, BUT THE OTHER LACK OF PLANNING AND REACTION AND THE ALLOWING OF THIS CRISIS TO TRULY SNOWBALL HAS CREATED THIS PROBLEM.

AND SO THE IMPACT BETWEEN THE MAYOR AND THE CITY COUNCIL I THINK IS JUST A MUCH SMALLER PART OF THE MASSIVE ISSUE THAT ALBUQUERQUE FACES, THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE NO REAL SOLUTION FOR DESPITE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS SPENT.

>> Gene: JULIE ANN, OF THE THREE SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES, TWO ARE RESERVED, IF THAT IS THE WORD, FOR THOSE WHO ARE WITH CARS.

AND THAT IS A GOOD IDEA BECAUSE THERE IS A DISTINCTION THERE.

BUT THE THIRD OUTDOOR SPACE RECEIVED A LOT OF PUSHBACK FROM NEARBY BUSINESSES WITH SEVEN DIFFERENT APPEALS FILED AGAINST THE CITY.

AMONG THOSE COMPLAINTS IS THE CONCERN THAT THE NEARBY SUNSET MEMORIAL PARK HAS PREVIOUSLY HAD A DEAL WITH A LOT OF HOMELESS IN TENTS.

WOULD THIS SAFE SPACE ADDRESS THIS CONCERN OR WOULD IT IN FACT ENCOURAGE MORE TENTS TO BE UP IN THAT AREA.

AND THAT IS A DIFFICULTY.

I HAVE DRIVEN BY THAT MEMORIAL PARK WHEN THERE HAVE BEEN TENTS UP THERE.

I AM CURIOUS YOUR POINT OF VIEW ON THAT.

>> Julie Ann: I THINK IT IS DIFFICULT TO KNOW WHAT THE EFFECT WILL BE UNTIL WE TRY IT.

I THINK WITH A LOT OF THESE KIND OF FEAR-BASED OPPOSITIONS TO NEW IDEAS, THAT TRYING TO PROGNOSTICATE WHAT HAPPENS, IS PROBLEMATIC.

BUT I DO THINK THAT HAVING SANCTIONED SPACES WHERE PEOPLE ARE WELCOME TO SET UP CAMP AND THEY HAVE ACCESS TO SOME BASIC SANITATION SERVICES, UNLIKE, YOU KNOW, GATHERING PLACES THAT JUST SORT OF HAPPEN IN SPACES WHERE FOLKS CAN CAMP BECAUSE, LIKE, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, NO ONE CARES.

WE CERTAINLY HAVE THAT HAPPENING IN, AS YOU MENTIONED, SOMETIMES IT IS HAPPENING IN PUBLIC PARTS.

IN SANTA FE THERE WAS A RULE WHERE DURING THE PANDEMIC THAT ALLOWED PEOPLE TO CAMP IN PARKS.

WE DIDN'T HAVE A CORONADO PARK SITUATION HAPPEN HERE, BUT WE ARE SEEING ENCAMPMENTS POP UP IN PLACES THAT ARE SORT OF FORGOTTEN PLOTS OF LAND.

AND I THINK EVERYONE CAN AGREE THAT ENCOURAGING PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING ON THE STREETS TO GET TO PLACES WHERE THEY ARE WELCOMED VERSUS BEING IN PLACES WHERE THEY ARE UNWELCOMED IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

>> Gene: I'M CURIOUS HERE.

IS THERE ANOTHER WAY COUNCILORS CAN ADDRESS THEIR CONSTITUENTS' CONCERNS ABOUT THESE SPACES HERE WITHOUT TRYING TO REMOVE THEM ENTIRELY.

WHAT I MEAN BY THAT, WE SEEM TO DO THIS BACKWARDS.

COUNCIL MAKES A VOTE THEN GO OUT AND TAKE THE TEMPERATURE OF THEIR CONSTITUENCY SECOND.

AND THEN COME BACK AND MAKE ANOTHER KIND OF VOTE WHEN THEY REALIZE IT IS NOT WORKING OUT TOO WELL.

IS THERE A MIDDLE GROUND WHERE COUNCIL WITH ENGAGE THEIR CONSTITUENCIES A LITTLE BIT MORE AND TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS?

>> Michael: THIS MAY NOT BE AN ANSWER DIRECTLY TO YOUR QUESTION BUT I THINK THAT I WOULD BE CURIOUS TO KNOW HOW KNOWLEDGEABLE ARE THE CITY COUNCILORS AS IT RELATES TO THE PROBLEM OF HOMELESSNESS.

NO.

1.

NO.

2, HOW KNOWLEDGEABLE ARE THEY ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THAT ARE OUT THERE SO THAT THEY CAN ENGAGE THEIR CONSTITUENTS IN COMING FROM A BASE OF KNOWLEDGE.

I MEAN, I AM NOT SAYING THEY DON'T.

MAYBE SOME OF THEM ALREADY DO HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE CITY IS OFFERING AND THE PROGRAMS AND WHO THE CITY IS TARGETING TO ASSIST.

I MEAN, CLEARLY THE HOMELESS POPULATION IS A RANGE OF PEOPLE.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SUBSTANCE ABUSE, DRUG ISSUES, WHO HAVE BEEN HOMELESS FOR PROBABLY QUITE SOME TIME.

AND THEN THERE ARE WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND ELDERS, SENIORS, WHO ARE OUT THERE FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS.

SO, YOU KNOW, DO CITY COUNCILORS AND DO EVEN THE SYSTEM, THE MAYOR'S PROGRAMS, DO THEY REALLY HAVE -- DO WE REALLY HAVE A THOROUGH UNDERSTANDING OF WHO THE HOMELESS ARE AND WHAT THEY NEED.

THAT IS A QUESTION COMES TO MIND FOR ME.

>> Gene: QUICK NOTE HERE.

>> Michael: ONLY THEN CAN WE REALLY CREATE THE KIND OF MEASURES THAT NEED TO BE IN PLACE.

>> Gene: QUICK NOTE, I WANTED TO GET IN THERE, THE MARTINEZTOWN ASSOCIATION, ALONG WITH THE MENAUL BUSINESS COMMUNITY, IS GOING TO HOLD A MEETING AT 6:00 AT MENAUL GYM ON MONDAY.

THAT IS THE NINTH.

TO EXPRESS CONCERNS AGAINST THE CITY SANCTIONING ENCAMPMENTS IN THAT MENAUL AREA, MARTINEZTOWN AREA.

MERRITT, INTERESTING, I AM GOING TO GET TO THIS IN THE SECOND PART OF MY INTERVIEW WITH THE MAYOR BUT THE FAITH COMMUNITY IS REALLY STEPPING UP HERE.

THEY ARE ACTUALLY JUST SAYING, LOOK, WE CAN HANDLE SOME OF THIS, SHOULD WE BE BRINGING THE FAITH COMMUNITY CLOSER TO THE DECISION-MAKING PROCESS HERE.

I MEAN, WHERE THERE IS A WILL THERE HAS TO BE A WAY HERE.

LET'S TALK TO PEOPLE THAT HAVE A WILL.

>> Merritt: I DO THINK SO BECAUSE THERE IS A DESIRE AND THERE IS A CAPACITY.

AND THERE ARE ALREADY PROGRAMS IN PLACE WITH REGARD TO THIS.

PERHAPS OVERNIGHTS, PARTICULARLY, IN SOME OF THE BIG BOX CHURCHES THAT HAVE THE LARGE PARKING LOTS, WHO WOULD BE WILLING TO HAVE PEOPLE PARK THERE OVERNIGHT.

THERE IS SOME GREAT RESOURCES THAT WOULD BE AVAILABLE.

THERE ARE ALREADY, YOU KNOW, ST. VINCENT DE PAUL SOCIETY ALREADY IS PROVIDING FOOD AND MEALS.

SO, THERE ARE ENTRENCHED DECADES LONG PROGRAMS TO HELP THE NEEDY THAT EXIST IN THE FAITH COMMUNITY THAT THE CITY COULD TAP INTO AND I KNOW THAT THE FAITH COMMUNITY WOULD BE HAPPY TO HELP.

>> Gene: GOOD POINTS THERE.

THANK YOU TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELIST.

WE'LL BE BACK FOR ONE FINAL DISCUSSION ON THE RECENT SETTLEMENT BY THE ARCHDIOCESE OF SANTA FE IN LESS THAN 10 MINUTES, BUT FIRST IT IS PART 2 OF MY CONVERSATION WITH ALBUQUERQUE MAYOR, TIM KELLER.

TALK ABOUT HOMELESSNESS.

WANT TO BACK UP A COUPLE STEPS.

YOU HAVE TAKEN YOUR SHARE OF GRIEF OVER THE HOMELESS SITUATION, HOMELESS ENCAMPMENTS, OTHER THINGS OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

I WANT TO BACK UP JUST A QUICK SECOND HERE AND WHERE DO YOU SEE THE HOMELESS ISSUE ACTUALLY STARTING FROM?

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE?

IS IT DRUG ABUSE?

IS IT LACK OF INCOME; FAMILY PROBLEMS?

WHO ARE YOU PERSONALLY SEEING THE HOMELESS PROBLEM GERMINATING FROM HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE?

>> Keller: I KNOW IT IS A CONFLUENCE OF SEVERAL THINGS.

I KNOW THAT MAKE IT HARD, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT LIKE A POLITICIAN INSERT.

IT IS TRUE.

THE LIVED EXPERIENCE OF HOMELESS FOLKS IS ACROSS A WIDE SPECTRUM AND HAS BEEN FOR A LONG TIME.

THAT IS ALSO WHY IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO SOLVE.

TYPICALLY, WHAT WE KNOW IS THE PATH INTO BEING ON THE STREET IN TERMS OF HOMELESSNESS DOES INVOLVE FENTANYL.

FENTANYL IS DESTROYING AMERICA AND DESTROYING ALBUQUERQUE.

THAT IS ABUNDANTLY CLEAR.

YOU CAN SMELL IT IF YOU DRIVE AROUND TOWN.

THIS IS HOW BIG A DEAL IT IS.

NOW THAT IS A PIECE OF IT BUT THAT IS USUALLY FURTHER DOWN THE JOURNEY TO HOMELESSNESS.

IT DOESN'T START WITH FENTANYL BUT DOES START WITH PRESSURES AROUND THINGS LIKE RENT, STARTS WITH PEOPLE TRYING TO GET OUT OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SITUATIONS.

IT STARTS WITH HEALTHCARE ISSUES THAT AGAIN SORT OF DRAIN UP ALL THE FUNDS AND CHRONIC ILLNESS AND SO FORTH.

THERE IS DEFINITELY A MENTAL HEALTH PIECE.

THERE IS DEFINITELY A BEHAVIORAL HEALTH PIECE FOR OTHER SUBSTANCE ABUSE SO ALL OF THOSE ARE AREAS.

AND, LOOK, THERE IS ALSO A SLIVER OF FOLKS THAT HAVE MULTIPLE JOBS AND THEY MAY HAVE GOTTEN THEMSELVES IN A PLACE WHERE THEY CAN'T GET THAT SUSTAINABLE JOB AND IT ACTUALLY JUST MAKES MORE SENSE FOR THEM TO SORT OF RESTART.

SO ALL OF THOSE THINGS LIKE COME INTO PLAY.

BUT I KNOW WHEN YOU SEE THE ENCAMPMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THIS, THAT IS WHERE THE FENTANYL TAKES HOLD AND MAKES IT HARD TO GET PEOPLE OUT OF THAT SITUATION BECAUSE IT IS MORE THAN JUST SAYING, LET'S FIND YOU A JOB, OR LET'S FIND YOU A PLACE TO STAY.

THEY NEED BEHAVIORAL HEALTH TREATMENT.

>> Gene: TALK ABOUT SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES.

OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE THE LEAD FACE TO HAVE THIS HAPPEN HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

ANYTHING YOU LEARNED OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS?

THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH PUSHBACK, SO MUCH PUBLIC INPUT.

HAVE YOU CHANGED YOUR SORT OF MINDSET ABOUT SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES AT THIS POINT?

>> Keller: THE IRONY ABOUT THIS IS I AM NOT THE LEAD FACE.

COUNCILOR BASSAN, THIS WAS HER IDEA.

AND SHE CAME TO ME AND SHE SAID, I WOULD LIKE TO TRY THIS.

I SAID, LET'S GO TO DENVER AND TAKE A LOOK.

WE LOOKED AT IT.

I SAID, YOU KNOW, IT IS WORTH TRYING.

I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT IT IS BE ALL, END ALL TO ANYTHING.

I THINK IT IS A SMALL TOOL THAT WE SHOULD TRY AND IF IT WORKS -- LOOK, IN ALBUQUERQUE, LIKE WE HAVE A LOT OF CHALLENGES SO I AM OPEN TO ANY IDEA THAT MIGHT WORK AND SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES IS ONE OF THEM, BUT I THINK IT IS REALLY ONLY APPLICABLE TO A SMALL AMOUNT OF FOLKS, BUT WE STILL SHOULD TRY IT.

SO THE IRONY ABOUT THEM FLIP FLOPPING ME AND SENDING ME ALL THESE BILLS TO KILL OUTDOOR SPACES, I KNOW WHAT WE NEED, MOST IMPORTANTLY AND BIGGEST THING, IS THE GATEWAY.

AND THAT IS WHAT I AM THE FACE OF AND HAVE OWNED FROM DAY ONE.

WE HAVE GOT TO GET LIKE A QUARTER OF OUR UNHOUSED TO FIND HELP.

THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IN SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES.

IT WILL HAPPEN.

THAT HOSPITAL USED TO HELP 1000 PEOPLE A DAY WITH HEALTH AND HEALING AND I THINK BY THIS TIME NEXT YEAR, IT IS GOING TO BE ABOUT DOING THE SAME THING.

THAT WILL MAKE A NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE AND HELP THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE EVERYDAY.

THAT IS WHAT I AM FOCUSED ON.

>> Gene: WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF FEEDBACK FROM THE FAITH COMMUNITY THAT THEY ARE WILLING WITH THEIR OWN PROPERTY AND PUTTING THEIR OWN MONEY INTO THE SITUATION, THEY ARE WILLING TO DO SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES.

HAVE YOU HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH THE FAITH LEADERSHIP AROUND TOWN ABOUT THIS?

>> Keller: OH YEAH.

WELL, NOW, FAST FORWARD BECAUSE I HAVE HAD TO VETO EVERY MEASURE THAT TRIES TO KILL IT.

WE HAVE AND ACTUALLY WE WORK WITH THEM ON THEIR PLAN AND ALSO SUBSIDIZE THEM.

SO THERE IS A FUND THAT THEY ALSO -- COUNCIL VOTED TO KILL AND I VETOED AND KEPT.

SO WE ARE WORKING WITH THEM.

YOU KNOW, I AM EXCITED TO GIVE IT A TRY.

DON'T GET ME WRONG, IT IS A TOOL WE WANT TO TRY.

BUT YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE VOLUME.

IF THERE IS 5,000 UNHOUSED MAYBE WE CAN HELP A COUPLE HUNDRED IN SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES, I'LL TAKE IT.

IF IT WILL CHANGE 100 PEOPLES' LIVES, IT IS WORTH IT TO DO IT, BUT I ALSO KNOW WE NEED TO HELP THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE A DAY.

THAT IS WHAT THE GATEWAY CENTER IS ALL ABOUT.

IT IS ABOUT BOTH.

AND THE FAITH COMMUNITY, BY THE WAY, THEY HAVE BEEN WITH ME AND OUR ADMINISTRATION FROM COVID TO NOW HOMELESSNESS AND I AM GRATEFUL FOR THEM.

AND EVEN MUSLIM SHOOTINGS IN BETWEEN AND WE HAVE AN AMAZING INTERFAITH COMMUNITY IN ALBUQUERQUE AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE PRAY TOGETHER AND WE WORK TOGETHER AND IT HAS BEEN A SPECIAL EXPERIENCE FOR ME AS MAYOR.

>> Gene: I'M INTERESTED IN KNOWING OR HEARING FROM YOU YOUR FRUSTRATION LEVEL WITH COUNCIL RIGHT NOW.

WHERE ARE YOU AT WITH CITY COUNCIL?

>> Keller: BELIEVE IT OR NOT ON BIG THINGS WE ACTUALLY WORK QUITE WELL.

THE BUDGET, I THINK ON THESE ZONING CHANGES FOR HOUSING, WE'LL SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT, BUT THEY HAVE BEEN VERY RECEPTIVE.

AND A LOT OF OUR VOTES ON MAJOR ISSUE HAVE BEEN VERY BIPARTISAN.

IRONICALLY, ALSO, WHEN IT MATTERS, I THINK WE HAVE BEEN DOING A GOOD JOB AND HAVING A NICE BACK AND FORTH WITH RESPECT TO POLICY MAKING.

NOW ON THE SMALL STUFF, I DO THINK THERE ARE COUNCILORS THAT BECOME MUCH MORE POLITICAL.

THEIR WHOLE GOAL IS TO MAKE ME LOOK BAD AND THAT IS, FRANKLY, WOULD IT SOUNDS LIKE WHEN I WATCH THEM.

THAT IS UNFORTUNATE.

IT IS OKAY.

YOU CAN TAKE YOUR SHOTS AT OUTCOMES AND ACTIVITIES BUT I SEE IT MUCH MORE PERSONAL FOR A COUPLE COUNCILORS AND ALSO, AGAIN, CITY STAFF.

I ALWAYS SAY, YOU CAN TAKE ALL THE SHOTS YOU WANT AT ME, BUT LEAVE THE POLICE ALONE, LEAVE OUR HOMELESS DIVISION PEOPLE, LEAVE THEM ALONE PERSONALLY.

DON'T CRITICIZE THAT THEY ARE NOT DOING ENOUGH.

THESE PEOPLE LIVE AND BREATHE TRYING TO HELP ALBUQUERQUE.

TAKE IT OUT ON ME INSTEAD.

SO, THAT I THINK HAS BEEN THE RUB.

YOU SEE THAT PLAY OUT IN PUBLIC AND I THINK THAT IS WHY PEOPLE THINK THAT THE RELATIONS AREN'T AS GOOD.

I WILL SAY THIS, THEY HAVE BEEN GREAT ON THE BIG ISSUES AND THAT IS MOST IMPORTANT IN THE LONG RUN.

>> Gene: LAST QUESTION AND I WANT TO THANK YOU AGAIN FOR COMING IN.

ARE YOU THINKING OF A THIRD TERM?

IS THAT A POSSIBILITY TO FINISH SOME OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE STARTED?

I HAVE KNOWN A LOT OF POLITICIANS AND THAT FRUSTRATES THEM TERRIBLY TO START SOMETHING AND NOT BEING ABLE TO GET SOMETHING DOWN THE ROAD.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT BEATS IN YOUR HEART?

>> Keller: YOU ARE DEFINITELY THE FIRST PERSON TO ASK ME THIS ONE.

SO, YOU KNOW, I HAVE SAID, FIRST OFF, I DO LOVE THIS JOB.

I AM VERY SENSITIVE TO GETTING THINGS DONE AND I KNOW WE LOST A LOT DURING THE PANDEMIC.

SO I AM ABSOLUTELY OPEN TO IT BUT, LOOK, I MEAN, THREE YEARS AWAY.

WE HAVE LOTS OF RUNWAY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I HOPE AS LONG AS PEOPLE WILL HAVE ME IN ANY POSITION -- I CAME, YOU KNOW, AND DECIDED TO DEDICATE MY LIFE TO PUBLIC SERVICE AND SO I AM TOTALLY OPEN TO IT, ABSOLUTELY.

BUT, I ALSO KNOW IT IS A LONG WAYS OUT AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, NOT EVEN MY CHOICE, SO WE'LL SEE HOW PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN A THIRD TERM.

LET ME SAY THIS, MAYORS OF OTHER CITIES, THERE IS A TREND FOR TERM LIMITS, BUT IT IS THREE TERMS.

IN DENVER AND OTHER CITIES, IT IS NOT TWO.

AND I THINK IT IS A REFLECTION OF JUST A LENGTH OF THINGS LIKE EVEN THE RAIL TRAIL.

THAT PROJECT IS GOING TO TAKE LIKE 10 YEARS.

THE GATEWAY, WE ARE AT A GOOD PLACE IN THIS TERM, BUT YOU DO SEE AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT AROUND THE COUNTRY, LOUISVILLE IS SAME WAY, FOR MAYOR'S THREE TERMS SEEMS TO BE WHAT PEOPLE ARE COMFORTABLE WITH.

SO, WE'LL SEE.

>> Gene: ALBUQUERQUE MAYOR, TIM KELLER, THANK YOU FOR COMING IN.

WELCOME BACK TO OUR LINE PANEL FOR ONE FINAL DISCUSSION.

A FEDERAL BANKRUPTCY JUDGE HAS APPROVED A 121 MILLION DOLLAR REORGANIZATION PLAN FOR THE ARCHDIOCESE OF SANTA FE.

THAT INCLUDES PAYMENTS TO ABUSE VICTIMS AND REQUIRES CHURCH OFFICIALS TO ESTABLISH A PUBLIC ARCHIVE DETAILING HOW DECADES OF ABUSE OCCURRED THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

JULIE ANN, DOES THIS MARK AN END OF A CONVERSATION FOR CATHOLIC OFFICIALS HERE IN NEW MEXICO OR IS THIS ONE OF A NUMBER OF STEPS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HERE NEEDS TO MAKE TO RECOGNIZE ITS PAST HISTORY OF ABUSE?

>> Julie Ann: I DON'T THINK IT IS THE END OF THE CONVERSATION AT ALL.

THIS TROVE OF DOCUMENTS THAT IS GOING TO BE DONATED OR HOUSED AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO SPECIAL COLLECTIONS, ZIMMERMAN LIBRARY, AND IT IS GOING TO BE ACCESSIBLE TO HISTORIANS AND JOURNALISTS AND ADVOCATES AND PEOPLE INTERESTED IN THE FUTURE THEOLOGY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND I THINK THAT THE DOCUMENTS WILL BE USED FOR, AS THEY ARE INTENDED, FAR INTO THE FUTURE TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED IN ORDER TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT, THE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT ALL THE DISPOSAL OF PROPERTY AND HOW THIS AFFECTED THE LOCAL PARISHES, YOU KNOW, 75 MILLION OF THAT 121 MILLION DOLLAR SETTLEMENT IS COMING FROM BASICALLY THE CHURCH'S BANK ACCOUNT AND BANK ACCOUNTS OF INDIVIDUAL PARISHES.

THE REMAINDER IS COMING FROM THE INSURANCE COMPANIES.

THEN YOU HAVE ALSO GOT THIS EIGHT MILLION THAT IS COMING FROM SEPARATE RELIGIOUS ORDERS LIKE THE INFAMOUS SERVANTS OF THE PARACLETE IN THE JEMEZ.

SO I THINK JUST UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS HAPPENING AND AS PAYMENTS START TO BE MADE AND SOME MORE OF THESE MEASURES OF ACCOUNTABILITY START TO HAPPEN, IT IS REALLY JUST ANOTHER CHAPTER.

>> Gene: TOUGH QUESTION.

IS THIS A SATISFACTORY OUTCOME FOR ALL PARTIES, FOR THE VICTIMS, FOR CHURCH, GREATER CATHOLIC COMMUNITIES OF NEW MEXICO?

DOES THIS SETTLE ANYTHING FOR ANY OF THOSE GROUPS?

>> Michael: I WOULD HOPE SO BUT IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

THIS WAS, I THINK, THIS IS A HORRIBLE THING.

AND I THINK ONE OF THE FACTORS IS JUST HOW LONG THIS WENT ON.

THIS WAS NOT -- THIS WAS OVER, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A LONG-STANDING ISSUE HERE IN NEW MEXICO AND IT NEVER WAS ADDRESSED APPROPRIATELY IN A TIMELY MANNER.

AND, YOU KNOW, MY PRAYERS GO OUT TO THE ARCHBISHOP WHO WALKED INTO THIS COMING FROM UTAH, AS I UNDERSTAND.

TO INHERIT THIS AND THEN HAVE TO TRY AND ADDRESS IT, RESOLVE IT AND MOVE THINGS FORWARD.

I HOPE PEOPLE CAN COME TOGETHER AND I HOPE THERE ARE LESSONS TO BE LEARNED IN TERMS OF THESE INSTITUTIONS THAT WE HAVE, PARTICULARLY CHURCHES, WHO PEOPLE PUT THEIR FAITH AND TRUST IN AND THEN TO HAVE IT BETRAYED IN THIS MANNER IS HEART BREAKING.

I HOPE THAT THIS NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

>> Gene: THAT IS RIGHT.

AND COURT RECORDS SHOW IT GOES BACK TO THE 40'S, THIS KIND THING.

SO HEART BREAKING.

MERRITT, LET ME FOLLOW-UP WITH SOMETHING JULIE ANN MENTIONED.

THE PUBLIC ARCHIVE, THAT IS MADE IN COOPERATION WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO ACTUALLY.

SHOULD THE UNIVERSITY HISTORIANS AND RELIGIOUS SCHOLARS HAVE A HAND IN OVERSIGHT OF THIS PUBLIC ARCHIVE?

AGAIN, TELLING THE STORY HERE, SO TO SPEAK, THIS IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE A CAREFULLY DONE THING.

WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF HOW THESE FOLKS SHOULD APPROACH THIS?

>> Merritt: I FEEL THE ARCHIVE NEEDS TO BE PUBLIC IMMEDIATELY AND I SAY THAT AS A CATHOLIC WHOSE FAMILY MOVED TO NEW MEXICO BEFORE I TURNED TWO.

I GREW UP SILVER CITY AND FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW THE FULL STORY, SERVANTS OF THE PARACLETE OPERATED A KIND OF REHAB CENTER IN THE JEMEZ AND PRIESTS WHO WERE FOUND TO BE MOLESTERS WOULD BE SENT THERE FOR A YEAR OR SO FOR REHAB.

AND THEN THEY WOULD BE SENT TO PARISHES IN RURAL COMMUNITIES, WHAT WOULD BE CALLED MISSION PARISHES, THAT WOULD GET A NEW PRIEST EVERY TWO OR THREE YEARS.

MY PARISH IN SILVER CITY WAS ONE OF THOSE PARISHES AND WE NOW KNOW THAT AT LEAST TWO OF OUR PRIESTS WHEN I WAS GROWING UP CAME FROM THAT CENTER.

WE WERE VERY ACTIVE PARISHIONERS.

MY MOTHER SERVED AS PRESIDENT OF THE PARISH COUNCIL AND MY FATHER SERVED AS PRESIDENT OF THE PARISH COUNCIL AND NOT KNOWING THAT AND HAVING YOUR FAMILY VERY ACTIVE IN THE PARISH AND LITURGY AND IN CONTACT IS VERY UPSETTING AND THERE IS A NEED TO KNOW THIS.

I WILL SAY THE CLERGY NOW IS VERY CANDID AND VERY OPEN.

MY PASTOR TALKED ABOUT THIS A LOT AS HIS OWN EXPERIENCE.

HE IS FROM ALBUQUERQUE.

HE WENT TO ST. PIUS.

HE TALKS ABOUT THIS.

AND I WILL TELL YOU WHEN THERE IS A SECOND COLLECTION FOR THE ARCHDIOCESE, I THINK PARISHIONERS TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT AND LOOK AT IT DIFFERENTLY THAN A COLLECTION FOR THE PARISH.

AND YOU DON'T SEE PARISHIONERS WANTING TO BAIL OUT THE ARCHDIOCESE.

I CERTAINLY DON'T.

THAT IS NOT WHERE I WANT MY CHARITABLE DOLLARS TO GO FRANKLY.

SO, I THINK THE ARCHIVE NEEDS TO BE MADE DIGITIZED AND MADE UP TO THE PUBLIC IMMEDIATELY.

>> Julie Ann: I WAS GOING TO POP IN THAT THIS SETTLEMENT IT MEANT A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO TOOK THE COURAGEOUS STEP TO SUE THE ARCHDIOCESE TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE STORIES WERE TOLD.

THOSE CASES ARE GOING AWAY NOW.

THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GET TO TRIAL SO PART OF WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT ABOUT THIS ARCHIVE IS HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?

HOW WERE THE PEOPLE IN POWER ACTIVELY TAKING STEPS TO COVER UP AND HIDE AND KEEP CHILDREN BEING HURT.

AND I THINK THAT EVERYONE SORT OF KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED AT THIS POINT OR A LOT OF DETAILS, BUT SORT OF HOW THAT POWER FLEX HAPPENED, THAT IS ONE OF THE BIG THINGS THAT PEOPLE WILL LEARN FROM THE ARCHIVES.

>> Gene: I AM GLAD YOU GOT THAT IN.

THAT IS A KEY POINT.

LET ME STAY WITH YOU ON THIS.

INTERESTING FROM UP YOUR WAY, EFFORTS TO SETTLE THE LAWSUITS.

ARCHDIOCESE HAS SOLD THE TEMPLE MONTEFIORE IN LAS VEGAS TO THE LAS VEGAS JEWISH COMMUNITY, A NONPROFIT GROUP THAT ORGANIZES JEWISH CELEBRATIONS AND SERVICES IN THE AREA.

TEMPLE MONTEFIORE WAS THE FIRST SYNAGOGUE IN NEW MEXICO ESTABLISHED IN 1922.

SO, HISTORICAL RECLAMATIONS LIKE THIS, A SYNAGOGUE, A SILVER LINING IN THIS CASE?

IT IS INTERESTING.

>> Julie Ann: I THINK YOU CAN SAY THAT BUT I ALSO WOULD SAY THAT THE JEWISH COMMUNITY THAT CAME TOGETHER TO FUNDRAISE TO BUY THIS BUILDING FROM THE ARCHDIOCESE REALLY FELT LIKE THEY WERE SORT OF OVER THE BARREL.

LIKE WE WANT OUR HISTORIC BUILDING BACK.

THE ARCHDIOCESE IS IN TROUBLE.

BUT THERE WAS A SENSE THEY SORT OF SQUEEZED, YOU KNOW, EVERY DIME THEY COULD GET OUT OF THAT PROPERTY AND SO CERTAINLY IT IS GOOD FOR THE JEWISH COMMUNITY IN LAS VEGAS AND THERE WAS A TEMPLE DEDICATION THAT HAPPENED RIGHT AROUND THE BEGINNING OF HANUKKAH WHICH WAS WELL ATTENDED AND I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT FOR THAT COMMUNITY AND YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THESE ARCHDIOCESE PROPERTIES ALL OVER THE STATE CONTINUE TO HAVE SORT OF AN UNCERTAIN FATE.

I AM THINKING ABOUT A PROPERTY THAT IS ON THE EAST SIDE OF SANTA FE THAT IS LIKE A RETREAT CENTER THAT SOMEONE WAS TALKING ABOUT JUST IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, I AM GOING TO BUY THAT FROM THE CHURCH AND TURN IT INTO A HOTEL.

THAT FIZZLED AS FAR AS I KNOW BUT KIND OF WHAT WILL WE SEE HAPPEN TO THESE HISTORIC ARCHDIOCESE PROPERTIES?

HOW WILL THEY CHANGE AND BE USED OVER TIME?

>> Gene: THANKS AGAIN TO OUR LINE PANEL AS ALWAYS THIS WEEK.

BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY TOPICS COVERED ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM PAGES.

CATCH ANY EPISODES YOU MAY HAVE MISSED ON OUR PBS VIDEO APP OR YOUR ROKU OR SMART TV.

THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR THE FIRST SHOW OF 2023.

AS WELL AS TO MICHAEL, MERRITT AND JULIE ANN FOR THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS.

I ALSO WANT TO THANK MAYOR KELLER FOR SITTING WITH ME JUST BEFORE THE HOLIDAYS AND WE COVERED A LOT OF GROUND INCLUDING WHAT YOU HEARD EARLIER REGARDING SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES.

NOW THAT EVEN MENTIONING THEM HAS SURVIVED THE COUNCIL VETO, PERHAPS WE CAN START FRESH ON THIS ISSUE.

THE OPENING OF THE OLD LOVELACE FACILITY NEXT WEEK FOR 50 MEN AND WOMEN IS A GOOD START.

THE MOMENTUM IS HARD TO GIN UP WHEN A SEEMINGLY INTRACTABLE PROBLEM LIKE HOMELESSNESS DOMINATES OR EYE LINE BUT IT HAS TO START SOMEWHERE.

PERHAPS THE NEW YEAR WILL FORWARD ALL INVOLVED IN A NEW PERSPECTIVE.

WE CAN ONLY HOPE.

THANKS FOR JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.