>>> SOME REPUBLICANS LOOK FOR AN ABORTION COMPROMISE.

>>> WELCOME TO "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD."

I'M ANN FISHER SITTING IN FOR MIKE THOMPSON THIS WEEK.

REPUBLICANS ARE BEGINNING TO REALIZE THAT PLAYING DECENT IS HARDER THAN PLAYING OFFENSE.

FOR NEARLY 50 YEARS, REPUBLICANS AND ABORTION RIGHTS OPPONENTS RAILED AGAINST THE COURSE AND DEMANDED ROE V. WADE BE OVERTURNED.

THEY OPPOSE ABORTION RIGHTS, BUT THEY ALSO EFFECTIVELY USE THE ISSUE TO MOBILIZE THEIR BASE.

ABORTION RIGHTS SUPPORTERS ARE ON THE OFFENSE, AND THEY HAVE WON ELECTIONS IN KANSAS, MICHIGAN, KENTUCKY, AND MOST RECENTLY WISCONSIN.

SOME OF THE GOP, INCLUDING GOVERNOR DeWINE, ARE SUGGESTING LESS EXTREME ABORTION RESTRICTIONS.

DeWINE ADMITTED THAT OHIO'S CURRENT SIX-WEEK BAN IS OUT OF STEP WITH THE OPINIONS OF MOST OHIOANS.

SO, IS THIS A RISK FOR GOVERNOR DeWINE, THE ANTIABORTION BASE OF THE PARTY HAS BECOME ADAMANT, NO EXCEPTIONS, AND, LIKE, THE BASE IS A BASE.

>> THIS IS KIND OF THE LAST ELECTION HE NEEDED TO WIN.

BUT, YOU KNOW WHAT?

HE SAID HE WAS VERY CAREFUL IN HIS WORDS.

HE DIDN'T EXPLICITLY CRITICIZE THE HEART BEAT BILL.

HE SAID THAT WHEN VOTERS GO TO THE POLLS IN NOVEMBER IF THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT MAKES THE BALLOT, THEY'RE GOING TO BE VOTING BETWEEN THAT AMENDMENT, WHICH HE THINKS IS FAR TOO PERMISSIVE FOR OHIO, OR PERHAPS SOMETHING THEY DON'T AGREE WITH.

HE'S WORRIED THEY MAY CHOOSE THE, QUOTE, LESSER OF TWO EVILS, AS THEY SEE IT.

AND THE ALTERNATIVE THEY SHOULD BE OFFERED SHOULD BE SOMETHING HE SAID COULD ENDURE, COULD SURVIVE THIS CHALLENGE.

AND SO WHETHER THAT TRANSLATES INTO SOMETHING MORE MODERATE LIKE 10 OR 12 EXCEPTIONS FOR RAPE, CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF CONSENT, HE WOULDN'T GET INTO THOSE DETAILS.

AND GIVEN THE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE, I DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING.

>> YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT IT, THE BASE IS PART AND PARCEL PART OF THE PARTY STRUCTURE NOW, RIGHT?

>> YES, BUT I DO THINK THE CORRECT PLACE TO ADDRESS ABORTION IS THE LEGISLATURE.

IT IS NOT THIS EXTREME ANTIINITIATIVE THAT IS BEING BACKED BY THE ACLU.

IT REMOVES ALL GUARDRAILS FROM PROTECTING YOUNG CHILDREN AND YOUNG WOMEN.

IT ALLOWS FOR BASICALLY ABORTION UP UNTIL FULL TERM, LIFE ALTERING PAINFUL SURGERY.

IT'S NOT WRITTEN CORRECTLY, ANN.

AND THE OTHER THING THAT'S REALLY TROUBLING ABOUT THIS IS ITS ANTI-PARENT BECAUSE IT REMOVES CONSENT.

I CAN TELL YOU, AS A NEW MOTHER, I WOULD NEVER ALLOW INTRUDERS TO LAY A HAND ON MY CHILD WITHOUT CONSENT.

THAT'S JUST FUNDAMENTAL.

WE HAVE MOVED SO FAR IN OUR SOCIETY TODAY TO ALLOW GOVERNMENT AND THESE EXTREME GROUPS TO INFILTRATE OUR DECISIONS.

>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING WAY TO LOOK AT IT.

I THINK A LOT OF IT IS STILL IN PLACE, A LOT OF THE RESTRICTIONS THAT HAVE PASSED THE LAST 20, 30 YEARS SINCE THEY PUT IT TO THE STATES.

>> ONE TIME I WAS ON THIS SHOW SOME WEEKS AGO, I WAS ASKED TO WHAT THE PROPOSED CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT MIGHT INCLUDE.

BUT IN FACT, IT ECHOED ROE VERSUS WADE.

AND ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS IN HEARING THE ANGST THAT IS TAKING PLACE WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TODAY, I'M BEGINNING TO SEE THAT APPARENTLY ROE VERSUS WADE, OR AT LEAST THE GUIDELINES, THE PRE-TRIMESTER GUIDELINES, FIRST TRIMESTER, NO CONTROLS WHATSOEVER.

SECOND TRIMESTER, YOU COULD HAVE SOME JUDICIAL OVERSIGHT.

AND THEN NOTHING AT THE LAST TRIMESTER.

THAT THAT WAS IN FACT A FAIRLY REASONABLE AND FAIRLY CONSERVATIVE, IF I CAN USE THE WORD, GUIDELINE THAT WE HAD FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.

AND I THINK THAT THAT IS WHAT THE CURRENT PROPOSAL HOLDS.

>> SO, WITHOUT GETTING INTO DEBATING THE ABORTION ISSUE IN AND OF ITSELF, LET'S STICK TO POLITICS FOR A SECOND.

DARREL ROWLAND, WHAT ABOUT THAT POLITICAL BASE AND THIS EASING OF RESTRICTIONS COMING FROM THE GOVERNOR HIMSELF?

>> I THINK IN PART THE DOBBS DECISION EXPOSED FRACTURES WITHIN THE RIGHT TO LIFE.

IT WAS KIND OF A -- WE'RE ALL AGAINST WHAT THE STATUS QUO NOW, THE ROE V. WADE WAS IN EFFECT IN JANUARY OF 1973.

BUT, YEAH.

ONCE, OKAY, YOU WIN.

OKAY, NOW YOU GET TO DECIDE THE DETAILS.

NOW THE DETAILS MATTER.

NOW THE MORE MODERATE, IF I CAN SAY THAT, RELATIVELY SPEAKING, OHIO RIGHT TO LIFE DECISION IS QUESTIONED BY THE MORE STRINGENT RIGHT TO LIFE GROUPS IN CINCINNATI AND CLEVELAND.

SO, THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN THOSE FISSURES THERE, BUT NOW IT MATTERS BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS IS GOING TO BE MY WAY OR YOUR WAY.

AND WHAT'S GOING TO BE PALPABLE TO THE VOTERS?

AND THE VOTERS, EVERY POLL SHOWS THAT THE EXTREMES ON EITHER SIDE IS JUST NOT WORTH THE BULK OF THE VOTERS BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION.

IF YOU BELIEVE THE OPINION POLLS AT ALL, YOU KNOW, THE COUNTRY IN GENERAL AND OHIO IN GENERAL IS PRO CHOICE WITH RESTRICTIONS.

NOW, I THINK GOVERNOR DeWINE WAS TO NAIL DOWN THOSE RESTRICTIONS, ANTIENUMERATED, THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF DETAILS THAT ARE REALLY UNRESOLVED.

IT'S REALLY MUDDY NOW.

THEY REALLY EXPOSED ABOUT A YEAR AGO THE 10-YEAR-OLD WHO WAS RAPED, HAD TO GO TO INDIANA.

YOU HAD THE OHIO ATTORNEY GENERAL SAYING SHE COULD HAVE STAYED IN OHIO, AND OTHERS SAY, NO WAY.

YOU HAVE A CLEAR, FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION LIKE THAT UP FIRST.

>> RIGHT.

I JUST WANT TO GO BACK TO THE POLITICS OF THIS AND WHETHER YOU SEE THIS OHIO GENERAL ASSEMBLY MOVING FORWARD WITH SOMETHING LESS RESTRICTIVE THAT MIGHT POSSIBLY INCLUDE EXCEPTIONS TO RAPE, INCEST, AND HEALTH OF THE MOTHER, AND MAYBE A POSSIBLE 15-WEEK BAN, KIND OF VERY MUCH RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE.

>> I THINK THAT'S WHERE OHIO VOTERS ARE TODAY.

WE ARE NOT EXTREME.

AND I THINK THE RIGHT PLACE TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES IS TRULY IN THE LEGISLATURE, NOT IN OUR STATE CONSTITUTION.

>> BUT DO YOU SEE THIS LEGISLATURE HAVING THE GUMPTION TO DO THAT?

>> I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> OKAY.

DEBATE CONTINUES TO GROW OVER A PROPOSAL TO LEGISLATE HOW OHIO'S PUBLIC COLLEGES TEACH STUDENTS AND TRAIN STAFF.

THE REPUBLICAN-LED SENATE BILL WOULD END MANDATORY DIVERSITY TRAINING, BAN EMPLOYEE STRIKES, AND REQUIRE U.S. HISTORY OR GOVERNMENT COURSES, WHICH INCLUDES A REQUIRED READING LIST.

STUDENT GRADES OF EVEN TENURED PROFESSORS WOULD COUNT FOR HALF OF A NEW MANDATORY ANNUAL EVALUATION CALL FOR IN THE LEGISLATION.

SUPPORTERS SAY IT WOULD HELP BRING CONSERVATIVE THOUGHT TO CAMPUS.

OPPONENTS SAY IT WOULD CHILL FREE THOUGHT.

JOE MAS, BILLS LIKE THIS ARE BEING INTRODUCED ACROSS THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW BY REPUBLICANS DO.

THEY HAVE A LEGITIMATE GRIPE THAT HIGHER ED IS RIFE WITH LIBERALS WHILE CONSERVATIVE THINKERS ARE MARGINALIZED ON THE PUBLICLY FUNDED COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES AND CAMPUSES.

>> ONLY ON A MICRO LEVEL, NOT A MACRO LEVEL.

THIS IS AGGRESSIVE AT THE MICROLEVEL.

I THOUGHT THIS WAS A JOKE ORIGINALLY.

YOU KNOW, KIND OF FRITTERS AWAY OR EVAPORATES AiWAH.

BUT AS YOU MENTIONED, IT ENDS MANDATED DIVERSITY TRAININGS, BANS ON PARTNERSHIPS WITH CHINESE INSTITUTIONS.

THAT MEANS HIGH SCHOOLS IN CHINA THAT ARE PROMISING OR CONTRACTURALLY BINDING STUDENTS TO COME INTO THE UNITED STATES, THAT CAN'T HAPPEN ANY LONGER.

PROHIBITING FACULTY UNIONS FROM STRIKING, EVALUATIONS FOR STUDENTS.

AND THIS IS WHAT I'M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT.

TO RATE PROFESSORS ON HOW WELL THEY HAVE REMOVED BIAS.

IN OTHER WORDS, THE ELIMINATION OF BIAS IS NOT BEING ADDRESSED AT THE MACRO LEVEL BY HAVING A VARIETY OF PROFESSORS AND PERCENTERS AND SO ON OVER THE FOUR-YEAR OR LONGER PERIOD.

BUT EACH INDIVIDUAL PROFESSOR IS NOW SUPPOSED TO NEGATE BIAS OR OVERCOME BIAS BY PRESENTING BOTH SIDES.

AND I HAVE NEVER -- I DON'T THINK ANY EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD HAS TRIED TO GO THAT FAR.

>> YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT IT THIS WEEK ON "ALL SIDES."

SOME SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS BROUGHT UP SOMETHING THAT I GUESS I ALREADY HAD KNOWN BUT IT BROUGHT IT TO MY ATTENTION, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT DEPARTMENT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT LIBERAL VERSUS CONSERVATIVE LEANING.

SOCIOLOGY DEPARTMENT IS ONE THING.

MBA PROGRAM IS AN ENTIRELY OTHER THING, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S REAL DETAILED STUDIES IN OHIO PUBLIC COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES IN WHERE THOSE PROFESSORS COME DOWN IDEOLOGICALLY.

THE NUMBER WE HEARD IN TESTIMONY WAS TEN TO ONE LIBERAL TO DEMOCRAT.

BUT I THINK -- LIBERAL TO DEMOCRAT.

WOW.

LIBERAL TO REPUBLICAN.

I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE SCHOOL YOU'RE GOING TO.

IF YOU GO TO UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO, THEY'RE VERY CONSERVATIVE, PARTICULARLY THE ECONOMICS PROGRAM.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO OVERLAND, YOU'RE PROBABLY GETTING A MOSTLY LIBERAL STAFF.

SOME OF THAT IS INCUMBENT ON THE STUDENT TO THINK ABOUT WHAT IS THE ENVIRONMENT OF THE SCHOOL THAT I WISH TO GO TO.

I WOULD ASSUME THAT MOST STUDENTS WHO ATTEND SMALL LIBERAL ART COLLEGES KIND OF KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GETTING.

>> I'M THINKING ABOUT STUDENTS EVALUATING PROFESSORS, AND NOT LIKE IT HASN'T BEEN DONE YELP STYLE FOR DECADES NOW.

I THINK ABOUT WHAT COULD GO WRONG IF YOU'RE NOT HAPPY WITH YOUR GRADE GOING INTO THE FINAL.

YOU KNOW?

>> THAT'S BIAS.

50%, YOU KNOW?

IT'S INTERESTING.

IT'S GREAT.

I THINK THE STUDENTS SHOULD HAVE A VOICE IN SOME WAY.

I'M NOT SURE THIS IS THE PROPER SCHOOL.

AS YOU SAY, THERE'S ALWAYS -- IF YOU'RE ON CAMPUS, THERE'S TALK ABOUT THE PROFESSORS, AND ESPECIALLY NOW IN THE ONLINE WORLD.

BUT EVEN BACK IN THE DARK AGES IT WAS LIKE, YEAH, YOU DON'T WANT THIS ONE OR YOU DO WANT THIS ONE.

YOU KNOW?

IT'S PRETTY MUCH PART OF THE EXPERIENCE.

>> YEAH.

>> BUT IT'S, LIKE, CAN'T WE JUST TEACH KIDS TO LEARN?

I MEAN, THERE'S AN ASSUMPTION HERE THAT THERE'S A MAJOR PROBLEM.

I'M NOT SURE THE PREMISE HAS BEEN -- THE CASE HAS BEEN MADE FOR THAT PREMISE.

I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT.

AS I THINK ANN SAID, WHERE'S THE STUDY?

WE ALL KNOW THAT ALL THOSE LEFT WING LIBERAL COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES IN OHIO.

IT'S LIKE, REALLY?

LET'S GO TO THE MAR SHAN CENTER A COUPLE MILES HERE, MILITARY STUDIES.

I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GOING TO FIND MY LEFTIES OVER THERE.

>> I AGREE.

THERE'S A LACK OF EVIDENCE.

IT'S ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

MEHEK COOKE, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK THE EVIDENCE IS THERE.

WE DO NEED AN EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM.

WHILE THERE ARE MANY PROGRAMS AND UNIVERSITIES THAT NOW HAVE MANDATORY DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION TRAINING, AND MY REQUEST IS MAKE THAT VOLUNTARY.

I THINK IT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO HAVE THAT TYPE OF TRAINING, BUT ALLOW STUDENTS TO DECIDE.

WHAT I THINK NEEDS TO BE MANDATORY IS STUDYING OUR CONSTITUTION, AMERICAN HISTORY, KNOWING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, MAKING SURE THAT EVERY STUDENT KNOWS, WE LIVE IN ONE OF THE GREATEST COUNTRIES.

THAT'S NOT CELEBRATED TODAY.

AND WE'RE PUSHING SOME OF THESE POLICIES.

IF YOU GET RID OF MANDATORY AND MAKE IT VOLUNTARY, THEN I THINK IT IS UP TO THE STUDENT ON WHERE THEY WANT TO ATTEND, WHERE THEY WANT TO GO.

AND THE COLLEGE PROFESSOR, THIS RATING SYSTEM IS GOING TO DEPEND ON, YES, WHETHER YOU LIKE THE PROFESSOR OR NOT.

EVERY STUDENT IS GOING TO HAVE THEIR BIAS.

WHEN WE USE THE WORD "MANDATORY" FOR SOME OF THESE DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION PROGRAMS, THAT'S JUST WRONG.

AND YOU SEE EVIDENCE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND SO MANY OTHER PROGRAMS.

>> THE STUDY OF HISTORY.

>> IT'S ACTUALLY NOT THE STUDY OF HISTORY.

IT'S EXTREME, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE LEARNING IN OUR CLASSROOMS TODAY.

AND A LOT OF UNIVERSITIES AND EVEN SOME OF OUR PROGRAMS HERE -- WE SAW A SCHOOL IN OHIO THAT ESSENTIALLY SAID WE'RE NOT GOING TO TELL PARENTS THAT WE'RE TEACHING CRT.

THAT'S NOT OKAY.

AGAIN, WHAT'S HAPPENING TO PARENTAL CONSENT AND INVOLVEMENT IN OUR SCHOOL.

WE NEED AN OVERHAUL TODAY.

>> ALL THE EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT CRT IS NOT BEING TAUGHT IN OHIO SCHOOLS.

JOE MAS?

>> IT ISN'T.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT RELATES TO PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HIGHER EDUCATION HERE, WHERE THE STUDENTS WHO ARE ADULTS OR SOON TO BE ADULTS.

SO, IT'S EXTRAORDINARILY CONFUSING BY LOOKING AT THE BILL AS TO WHAT IT IS THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH.

BUT IT SEEMS EVIDENT -- AND YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR QUESTION TO MEHEK -- THAT WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO, WHAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WOULD LIKE TO DO, IS TO MAKE HIGHER EDUCATION MORE CONSERVATIVE.

I MEAN, THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THAT'S THE DIRECTION THAT THEY WANT TO GO.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT WHAT PASSES FOR CONSERVATISM TODAY?

FOR EXAMPLE, THE THINGS THAT THEY DON'T WANT MENTIONED IS CLIMATE CHANGE, ELECTROPOLITICS, FOREIGN POLICY, IMMIGRATION POLICY, MARRIAGE, AND ABORTION.

AND THAT DOESN'T -- THE OPPOSITE DOESN'T NECESSARILY DEFINE WHAT CONSERVATISM SHOULD BE.

>> I JUST WANT TO QUICKLY POINT OUT THAT THAT SECTION DEALS WITH THE UNIVERSITY, THE CHANCELLOR AND THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS TAKING PUBLIC POSITIONS ON THOSE ISSUES.

IT'S NOT IN THE TEACHING OF THOSE ISSUES.

IT DEALS DIRECTLY WITH THE UNIVERSITY TAKING A PUBLIC POSITION ON AN ISSUE.

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

>>> LET'S MOVE ON.

OHIO VOTERS COULD DECIDE YET ANOTHER POSSIBLE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, ONE THAT WOULD INCREASE THE STATE'S HOURLY MINIMUM WAGE TO AT LEAST $15.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SIGNED OFF ON THE PETITION LANGUAGE, AND IF THE BALLOT BOARD APPROVES IT, PROPONENTS WOULD GATHER THE REQUIRED 400,000 PLUS SIGNATURES TO GET IT ON THE BALLOT.

THEY'RE SHOOTING FOR NOVEMBER 2024.

OHIO'S CURRENT MINIMUM WAGE IS $10.10 AN HOUR.

IF VOTERS APPROVE THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT, OHIO'S MINIMUM WAGE WOULD INCREASE TO $15 BY 2026 AND BE INDEXED TO INFLATION.

MEHEK COOKE, 15 BUCKS AN HOUR DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THAT MUCH ANYMORE IN THIS POST-PANDEMIC AGE, WHEN HOURLY WORKERS ARE ALREADY OFFERING IN EXCESS OF $15 AN HOUR.

YOU SEE SIGNS ALL OVER THE PLACE.

IS THIS AS THREATENING AS IT ONCE APPEARED TO BE TO THOSE WHO SAY IT WOULD COST JOBS AND HURT THE ECONOMY?

>> I DON'T THINK ANYBODY OWES US ANYTHING.

WE HAVE TO WORK HARD AND ACHIEVE ANYTHING WE DO IN OUR COUNTRY.

I DON'T THINK A $15 MINIMUM WAGE BLANKET IN OHIO IS GOING TO BE AFFORDABLE.

SMALL BUSINESSES JUST WENT THROUGH THE ROUGHEST TIME.

WE SAW A PANDEMIC WITH LOCKDOWNS, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF BUSINESSES BASICALLY CLOSED DOWN BECAUSE WE WEREN'T ABLE TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO OPERATE.

AND TODAY WE'RE NOW PUSHING A HUGE MINIMUM WAGE JUMP.

AND WHILE I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS MANY INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE STILL STRUGGLING, DID ANYBODY ASK, WHAT ARE THESE SMALL BUSINESSES SAYING ABOUT THIS HUGE MINIMUM WAGE JUMP?

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO KEEP THEIR DOORS OPEN.

IN FACT THE NSIB DID ASK HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF BUSINESSES.

92% SAID SMALL BUSINESSES WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SURVIVE.

AND THE ONES THAT DO, LIKE MY FATHER'S BUSINESSES AND A COUPLE OTHERS I HAVE HELPED AS A SMALL BUSINESS ATTORNEY, I CAN TELL YOU THEY'RE GOING TO CUT EMPLOYEES.

THEY'RE GOING TO INCREASE COSTS -- BECAUSE WE SAW FOOD PRICES, FOR INSTANCE IN RESTAURANTS, SURGE.

THIS IS NOT THE WAY FORWARD.

IF WE TRULY WANT TO BE COMPETITIVE AND TO HELP PEOPLE THEN ALLOW THE MARKET TO DRIVE MINIMUM WAGE.

LET THE MARKET COMPETE BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT, ANN, I AM SEEING SIGNS OF $15 OR $20.

LET BUSINESSES DECIDE WHAT'S BEST FOR THEM.

AND THEN YOU, AS AN INDIVIDUAL, HAVE THAT PERSONAL CHOICE TO GO TO ANY BUSINESS AND DECIDE THAT YOU WANT TO BE AN EMPLOYEE THERE.

BUT TO HAVE THESE MANDATES, IT DIDN'T WORK DURING THE PANDEMIC.

IT FORCED US TO SHUT DOWN.

AND NOW WE'RE SEEING IT AGAIN ON OUR STATE CONSTITUTION.

AND I ASK EVERY VOTER, IF YOU DO SUPPORT THIS, GO TO YOUR FAVORITE SMALL MOM AND POP SHOP AND ASK THEM HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT A $15 MANL.

YOU'RE GOING TO GET SOME RAW, TRUTHFUL ANSWERS.

AND SOME OF OUR SMALLER SUBURBS AND COUNTIES, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD THIS.

WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE MORE SHUTDOWNS.

OHIO RESTAURANT ASSOCIATION HAS ALREADY STATED BUSINESSES CANNOT SURVIVE.

>> THE OHIO RESTAURANT ASSOCIATION AND NATIONAL RESTAURANT ASSOCIATION IS OPPOSED TO ANY KIND OF INCREASE IN MINIMUM WAGE AS A RULE.

STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT OFTEN THE POOREST AMONG US REALLY DON'T BENEFIT FROM MINIMUM WAGE.

THEY'RE WORKING IN BLACK MARKET JOBS.

THEY'RE UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS AND OTHER MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES.

THEY DON'T GET THE BENEFIT, THE PEOPLE WHO NEED IT THE MOST.

>> WELL, THEY DO AND THEY DON'T.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WHEN THESE BASELINE SALARIES RISE, IT FORCES EVERYTHING ELSE TO RISE, WHICH IS ONE ACTUALLY ARGUMENT THAT I THINK IF I WAS SITTING IN THE BACKSEAT THAT I WOULD BE USING.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOU RAISE MINIMUM WAGE.

IF I'M AN OWNER OF A MOM AND POP STORE, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO RAISE MY PRICES.

AND AM I GOING TO BE ABLE TO COMPETE WITH THE WALMART?

WELL, MAYBE AND MAYBE NOT.

AND I THINK THAT THAT IS A VALID ARGUMENT TO ADVANCE.

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, PEOPLE ARE BEING EXPLOITED.

AND BY THE WAY, THE INITIATIVE ALSO INCLUDES NOT DIFFERENTIATING THE SALARIES WITH, FOR EXAMPLE, PROGRAMS THAT COME TO EMPLOYEE THE DISABLED.

AND ALSO YOUNG PEOPLE AND SO ON SO THAT WE HAVE ONE ECONOMY RATHER THAN HAVING MORE THAN ONE.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, WILL THE MARKET DRIVE THIS?

BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE IT IS THAT YOU PUT MINIMUM WAGE.

IT'S GOING TO DRIVE EVERYTHING ELSE AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THAT.

IT'S REALLY KIND OF A RACE TO HOW BIG IS THE SLICE OF THE PIE RATHER THAN ANYTHING ELSE ECONOMISTS WILL SAY.

>> WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE ELECTORATE ON THIS ISSUE?

>> I DON'T THINK I'VE SEEN AN OHIO POLL IN A WHILE ON THIS ISSUE.

I THINK IT WOULD BE REALLY GREAT IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO DO ONE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK, OBVIOUSLY I WOULD ASSUME AT LEAST INITIALLY SPLITS ALONG DEMOCRATIC/REPUBLICAN LINES.

AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU WILL FIND REPUBLICAN AND CONSERVATIVE SUPPORT FOR CERTAIN AMOUNTS OF WAGE INCREASES.

I AM NOT SURE IF GOING FROM 10 TO 15 WHICH IS A 50% INCREASE, IF I'M DOING MY MATH CORRECTLY.

>> PRETTY CLOSE.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S TOO FOR MOST REPUBLICANS.

>> OKAY.

>> IT PASSED, WHAT, 15 YEARS AGO AND FAIRLY COMFORTABLY.

THE CURRENT MINIMUM WAGE.

OHIO'S CURRENT MINIMUM WAGE OF $10.10 IS ALMOST $3 MORE THAN THE FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE.

AND IT'S INDEXED TO INFLATION, SO IT INCREASES EVERY YEAR.

SO, THAT GAP HAS BEEN GROWING FOR YEARS NOW.

MEHEK STATED A CONSERVATIVE CASE ON THIS, LIKE ANN, SORRY TO BE THE CYNICAL JOURNALIST, I HEAR THESE ARGUMENTS EVERY SINGLE TIME NO MATTER WHAT.

AND THE WORLD WAS GOING TO END WHEN THIS HAPPENED THE LAST TIME, AND IT DIDN'T.

>> I GIVE YOU THAT PERSPECTIVE NOT AS A CONSERVATIVE OR A REPUBLICAN TODAY.

I GIVE YOU THAT PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE I'M A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER AND MY DAD CAME TO THIS COUNTRY AND WORKED THREE JOBS FOR SEVEN YEARS STRAIGHT SO HE COULD PUT FOOD ON OUR TABLE WITH TEN FAMILY MEMBERS.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT M IMMIGRANTS AND THEM BEING UNDERPAID, I AGREE WITH YOU.

I'M NOT TALKING, TALKING POINTS TODAY.

I AM HELPING BUSINESSES.

I DON'T SIT DOWN WITH AN INDIVIDUAL AND SAY, ARE YOU A DEMOCRAT OR A REPUBLICAN?

I SAY, HOW CAN I HELP YOUR FAMILY SUCCEED?

MY PERSPECTIVE IS REAL.

I GET TO WORK EVERY DAY FOR PEOPLE AND I DON'T CARE ABOUT THEIR POLITICS.

I WANT THEM TO SUCCEED LIKE MY FAMILY HAVE SO THEY CAN HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE AMERICAN DREAM.

DO I THINK THIS IS GOING TO CRUMBLE?

NO.

BUT I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT HOW THIS IS GOING TO IMPACT SMALL BUSINESSES.

GO TO YOUR FAVORITE MOM AND POP SHOP ASK THEM, $15 AN HOUR, IS THAT AFFORDABLE?

IT'S NOT.

>> WOULD YOUR DAD HAVE DONE BETTER IF THERE HAD BEEN A HIGHER MINIMUM WAGE?

WOULD HE HAD TO HAVE WORKED THREE JOBS?

>> WE CAN SPECULATE WHAT HE COULD HAVE DONE BETTER, BUT HE DID THE BEST HE COULD.

AND HE'S IN A POSITION TODAY WHERE HE'S HELPING OTHER INDIVIDUALS.

I'M IN A POSITION TODAY WHERE I CAN HIRE PEOPLE.

BUT THIS HAS TO BE MARKET DRIVEN.

YOU CAN'T FORCE THROUGH GOVERNMENT MANDATES TELLING BUSINESSES THAT ARE EMPLOYING SO MANY OHIOANS WHAT TO DO AND HOW TO DO IT.

>> 30 YEARS AGO THIS WEEK, MUCH OF THE NATION'S ATTENTION WAS RIVETED ON A STATE PRISON IN SOUTHERN OHIO, THE RIOT AND THE LATER SIEGE OF THE LUCASVILLE PRISON TOOK THE LIVES OF NINE INMATES AND A CORRECTIONS OFFICER.

AND IT'S FOCUSED ATTENTION ON THE PRISON CONDITIONS THAT MANY BELIEVE LED TO THE CHAOS.

I COVERED THE SIEGE MYSELF.

I WAS ON THE GROUND, THE COLD AND WET GROUND, IN LUCASVILLE THE ENTIRE 11 DAYS.

DARREL ROWLAND, TELL US WHAT YOU TOOK AWAY FROM THAT TIME.

>> I REMEMBER US BEING THERE, ANN.

AND, YEAH, COLD AND WET GROUND, AND WE HAD TO SLEEP IN A CHEVY BLAZER AND TRACK MUD IN BECAUSE MY EMPLOYER AT THE TIME WAS TOO CHEAP TO BUY A HOTEL.

WHAT CAN I SAY?

I WAS DOWN THERE THIS PAST WEEK FOR THE MEMORIAL CEREMONY OUTSIDE AND THEN WE GOT A QUICKY TOUR.

I WAS -- OUR CORRESPONDENT GROUP CHOSE ME TO BE THE POOL REPORTER, AND I WAS THE FIRST ONE IN AFTER THE RIOT.

I WENT IN THIS PAST TUESDAY, EXACTLY 30 YEARS LATER FROM WHEN IT TOUCHED OFF, AND SAID THE EXACT SAME PLAY.

I TRIED TO REMEMBER, 30 YEARS.

IT WAS SO TRASHED BACK THEN.

EVERYTHING THAT COULD BE BROKEN WAS BROKEN.

GLASS, PORCELAIN, WHATEVER.

AND IT'S IMMACULATE NOW.

BUT THERE'S BEEN LOTS OF CORRECTIONS MADE AS WELL.

THE CONTROL PANEL IS OPEN TO THE INMATE POPULATION.

I'M NOT SURE WHO EVER THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO BEGIN WITH.

BUT WHATEVER.

ONCE THE RIOT HAPPENED AND THEY TOOK OVER THE PANEL, THEY GOT THE KEYS AND COULD OPEN UP ALL THE CELL BLOCKS.

THEY THOUGHT, MAYBE WE SHOULD CHANGE THAT.

THEY HAVE.

IT'S ENCLOSED.

THERE'S AN ESCAPE HATCH TO THE ROOF AND EVERYTHING.

THERE'S A SAFE ROOM WITH STEEL BARS IN IT.

THEY GOT THE WEIGHTS FROM THE GYM, USED AS FREE WEIGHTS, SMASHED THROUGH THEM.

THERE WERE NO STEEL BARS.

THERE ARE NOW.

THERE'S NO RESTRICTION ON MOVEMENT.

DOUBLE CELLING WAS CITED AS A PROBLEM.

THAT'S TEND TO BE FORGOTTEN.

TO SETTLE THE RIOT, THERE WERE 21 POINTS THE STATE AGREED TO.

AND THEY'VE UPHELD THEIR END OF THAT.

THE STATE KEPT ITS WORD FROM 1993.

>> A LOT MORE AWARENESS OF THE RACIAL STRIKES AT THE TIME AND RESPONDING TO THAT.

AND THINGS ABOUT PRISONER CONDITIONS, FOR INSTANCE, THAT COULD MAKE ONE CALL A YEAR OUT OF THE PRISON, WHICH IS -- IT'S SO SHOCKING TO THINK ABOUT THAT.

NOW THEY'VE MADE -- SOMEONE SAID SOMETHING LIKE THEY DO 300,000 CALLS A MONTH OUT OF THE OHIO PRISONS NOW.

MORE HUMANE ON SO MANY LEVELS, MADE SO MUCH MORE SENSE.

SO, IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

YEAH, JOE MAS?

>> YOU KNOW, THE THING THAT I REMEMBER IS THAT -- BECAUSE WHEN I WENT TO LAW SCHOOL IN THE '70s, I REMEMBER TALKING ABOUT ATTICA AND HOW WHAT YOU DO AS AN ATTORNEY REPRESENTING THE INMATES OR THE GUARDS OR THE GOVERNMENT.

AND SO THIS WAS PART AND THE REACTION TO LUCASVILLE I THINK WAS COLORED BY WHAT HAD HAPPENED IN ATTICA YEARS BEFORE.

>>> IT IS TIME FOR OUR FINAL AUFT RECORD PARTING SHOT.

JOE MAS, YOU'RE ON.

>> THANK YOU, ANN.

OHIO HAS BEGUN PLACING NON-CITIZEN LABELS ON DRIVER'S LICENSES AND STATE IDs FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN THIS COUNTRY LEGALLY BUT LACK CITIZENSHIP.

OHIO IS THE ONLY STATE IN THE NATION DOING THIS.

NOW, THE CONCERN IS THAT, PERHAPS, NON-GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES WILL USE THAT TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST THESE NON-CITIZENS.

>> MEHEK COOKE?

>> MY OFF THE RECORD IS THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ONE OF THE BEST SEASONS FOR THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY FOOTBALL TEAM, AND WE SHOULD ALL BE CHEERING.

WE'RE GOING TO BEAT EVERY TEAM ON THAT SCHEDULE.

>> OKAY.

>> GO BUCS.

>> ANNA SHAVER.

>> I HAVE TO AGREE WITH HER VERY MUCH.

SO FAR WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT JOE BIDEN VERSUS DONALD TRUMP.

BUT RON DeSANTIS CAME TO OHIO THIS WEEK.

HE WAS, YOU KNOW, PUSHING HIS BOOK, TALKING ABOUT WHAT HE COULD DO FOR THE STATE.

I MEAN, HE HASN'T GOTTEN IN THE RACE YET, BIT SURE SOUNDS LIKE HE WANTS TO BE PRESIDENT.

>> DARREL ROWLAND?

>> WE'VE SEEN MUCHO DOLLARS ALREADY SPENT ON THIS ABORTION ISSUE, AND THEY'RE JUST NOW GATHERING SIGNATURES.

IF THIS DOES QUALIFY FOR THE BALLOT, IT'S GOING TO BE A NATIONALIZED BATTLE.

THE UNFORTUNATE PART FOR OHIO, WE JUST HAD AN UNFORTUNATE CHAPTER IN OUR STATE HISTORY.

THIS IS GOING TO BE DARK MONEY, A LOT OF OUT OF STATE DONORS, AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE THE FIRST IDEA WHO'S WHO.

I WOULD LOVE FOR BOTH SIDES TO VOLUNTARILY SAY, WE'LL SPEND ALL THE MONEY WE WANT TO PASS OUR SIDE, BUT WE'RE GOING TO VOLUNTARILY TELL YOU WHO OUR DONORS ARE.

E I THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT FOR OHIO.

I WON'T HOLD MY BREATH.

>> OKAY.

I'M SENDING MY THOUGHTS, GOOD THOUGHTS, TO MY BOSS, MIKE THOMPSON.

HE'S GOING TO BE RUNNING IN HIS FOURTH BOSTON MARATHON THIS WEEKEND.

HERE'S TO A GOOD RUN, MIKE.

>>> THAT'S "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" FOR THIS WEEK.

CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK, AND YOU CAN WATCH US ANY TIME ON OUR WEBSITE AT WOSU.ORG.

I'M ANN FISHER.

HAVE A GOOD WEEK.