>> THE CHAOS CAUCUS •WHO'S IN CHARGE ON CAPITOL HILL?

TECH LAYOFFS EXPOSE AN IMMIGRATION PROBLEM AND NEW YORK'S AGGRESSIVE NEW CLIMATE PLAN.

STAY TUNED, IVORY TOWER IS NEXT ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED TONIGHT BY NINA MOORE FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY, ANIRBAN ACHARYA FROM LEMOYNE COLLEGE, MICHAEL TILLOTSON FROM SUNY CORTLAND, AND CHAD SPARBER FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

AS WE TAPE OUR PROGRAM THIS FRIDAY MORNING, WE DO NOT HAVE A FUNCTIONING CONGRESS, AS THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES STILL DOES NOT HAVE ANYONE IN CHARGE.

KEVIN MCCARTHY HAS LOST 11 VOTES AND NO ONE IS SURE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.

IT IS POSSIBLE BY THE TIME THIS PROGRAM AIRS FRIDAY EVENING, WE'LL HAVE A SPEAKER •MCCARTHY OR SOMEONE ELSE •BUT EITHER WAY, WHAT DOES ALL THIS SOUND AND FURY TELL US ABOUT THE 2023 VERSION OF THE GRAND OLD PARTY?

>> HANDS DOWN IT TELLS US THAT THE RIGHT WING OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CARES MORE ABOUT POWER THAN ABOUT PUBLIC POLICY; THAT WHEN GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO PRESS FOR THE KINDS OF LEGISLATIVE AGENDAS THAT MATTER TO THE CAUCUS OR TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OR EVEN TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, THAT, INSTEAD, YOU'VE GOT A CABAL OF FOLKS WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

IT'S NOT THE ENTIRE REPUBLICAN PARTY BUT THIS SET OF 20 PEOPLE WHO, INSTEAD, DEMAND A SEAT ON THE MOST POWERFUL COMMITTEE IN THE CHAMBER, WHO DEMAND SOME ASSURANCES THAT THEY WILL NOT BE PRIMARIED, AND WHO ACTUALLY WANT TO EXERCISE CONTROL OVER THE SPEAKERSHIP.

NOW THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THERE WEREN'T VALID ARGUMENTS PUT FORWARD SUCH AS THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING AMPLE TIME TO CONSIDER MAJOR BILLS, OMNIBUS BILLS, WELL IN ADVANCE OF THE LAST DAYS BEFORE ADJOURNMENT.

SO WHY NOT INSTEAD ASK, LET'S ENSURE THAT THERE IS AMPLE TIME TO DEBATE THESE BILLS.

>> YOU KNOW, THAT IDEA-- I MEAN WHY SHOULDN'T THEY HAVE A ROLE MORE OF A ROLE IN DRAFTING LEGISLATION?

THEY WANT TO HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY MORE THAN TYPICALLY NOW THE LEGISLATION IS COMING OUT OF A SPEAKER'S OFFICE.

>> THAT IS WHAT THEY WANT.

I MEAN REPUBLICAN DAN CRENSHAW HAS COME OUT AND SAID THE FREEDOM CAUCUS-- THAT THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE FREEDOM CAUCUS WANTS.

YOU SAY IT'S POWER.

FORMER SPEAKER JOHN BOEHNER HAS ARGUED WHAT THEY REALLY WANT IS CHAOS SO WE ARE FACED WITH THIS REALITY WHERE, IN ORDER FOR McCARTHY TO SECURE HIS VICTORY, HE MIGHT BE PUTTING THESE CHAOS MUPPETS IN THESE POWERFUL POSITIONS THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

AND THEIR SOLE PURPOSE WILL BE TO DISRUPT GOVERNMENTS AND SO FOR ME, THIS IS CONCERNING OMEN OF WORSE THINGS TO COME, AND IN PARTICULAR, THE THING I'M WORRIED ABOUT IS THE SPECTOR OF DEFAULT.

AND IF WE DEFAULT ON THIS DEBT, THAT'S GOING TO PERMANENTLY RAISE INTEREST RATES AND DECREASE U.S. INVESTMENT AND THAT'S MY PANIC.

>> I WORRY ABOUT THE DEFAULT ON THE DEBT, BUT I ALSO WORRY ABOUT THE FUNCTIONING OF THIS CHAMBER.

THIS IS THE PEOPLE'S CHAMBER.

AND WE ALREADY HAVE DEEP PARTISAN POLARIZATION THAT HAS LED TO GRIDLOCK.

THIS PROMISES TO PUT EVEN MORE OF THAT IN PLAY.

>> I THINK THIS IS BASICALLY THE SYMPTOM OF A LARGER STRUCTURAL DEFECT THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS.

IN 2020, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY DID WHAT NO PARTIES HAVE DONE FOR ABOUT A CENTURY, THEY FAILED TO PROVIDE A UNIFIED PARTY PLATFORM.

WE WAITED IN 2022 AND STILL THERE WAS TO UNIFIED PARTY PLATFORM.

WE DISCUSSED HERE ABOUT KIND OF THIS CRAZY RICK SCOTT RESCUE AMERICA PLAN ALONG WITH THE KEVIN McCARTHY COMMITMENT OF AMERICA PLAN BUT NOT A UNIFIED FRONT AND THAT IS WHAT EXACTLY WE ARE SEEING PLAYING OUT WITH THIS SPEAKER DEBATE; THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY REALLY DOESN'T KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING OTHER THAN SOME SKIRMISHES ABOUT CULTURE WAR, WHAT TRANS GENDER PEOPLE CAN OR CANNOT DO.

WHETHER YOU CAN READ WHAT BOOKS YOU CAN READ OR NOT READ.

THAT'S WHAT WE ARE SEEING THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY STRUCTURALLY DOES NOT KNOW REALLY WHAT IT REALLY STANDS FOR.

IT CANNOT BE THE TRUMP PARTY ANYMORE.

CAN IT DENNY ELECTRICSES IN THE WAY IT DID-- ELECTIONS IN THE WAY IT DID BEFORE.

I THINK IT WILL PLAY OUT WITH THE POPCORN GLORY.

>> YOU SAID IT CAN'T BE THE TRUMP PARTY ANYMORE AND MICHAEL, WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

WHAT DOES THIS TELL US ABOUT THE FUTURE OF TRUMP IM?

>> THESE INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED IN THIS WILD WEST SHOWDOWN, THEY'RE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT DOING THE PEOPLE'S BUSINESS, RIGHT?

THEY HAVE NO INTEREST IN QUALITY OF LIFE, INCOME, JOBS, HOUSING HEALTHCARE, LIFE EXPECTANCY, PRENATAL CARE AND EDUCATION.

THEY'RE WESTERN CONCERNED ABOUT ONE THING, WEAKENING THE POWER OF THE SPEAKER.

THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT CONSERVATIVE.

THEY DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CONSERVATISM AND BUCKEYES.

THEY DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BARRY GOLDWATER CONSERVATISM AND GOLD FISH.

THEY'RE NOT GROUNDED IN CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES OR CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL THEORY.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, WHEN YOU START TO THINK ABOUT THE THINK TANKS LIKE THE MANHATTAN INSTITUTE OR CATO INSTITUTE, THEY SEE THESE PEOPLE AS RATHER ININTERESTING CURIOSITIES, RIGHT?

THIS IS JUST RAW CULT OF PERSONALITY POPULISM.

THESE PEOPLE ARE FLAME THROWING PROVOCATEURS.

RUN OF THE BILL SOCIAL MEDIA HOUNDS.

BUT WHAT THEY HAVE MASTERED IS THIS.

THEY HAVE MASTERED THE ABILITY TO APPEAL TO THE EMOTIONAL SATISFACTION AND GRIEVANCE CULTURE OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

MEANWHILE, GEORGE SANTOS SITS IN THIS CHAMBER, COMFORTED BY THE FACT THAT THERE IS NO HONOR AMONGST THIEVES.

>> SO YOU KNOW, BUT IF YOU FORGIVE MY NAIVETE, YOU TALK ABOUT GOVERNANCE AND HOW THIS IS JUST A DISRUPTION AND HOW EMBARRASSING IT IS FOR THE REPUBLICANS, YEAH, YEAH, SURE BUT THEN PART OF ME WONDERS WHY THE DEMOCRATS ARE NOT DOING MORE TO CROSS LINES, TO GET A SPEAKER IN THE HOUSE.

AND LIKE DON'T GET ME WRONG.

I UNDERSTAND THE JOY OF WATCHING THE OPPOSING PARTY FALL APART BUT THERE IS A PART OF ME THAT THINKS, IF YOU WANT GORVANCE, IF YOU DON'T WANT-- CHAOS MUPPETS IN POWERFUL CHAMBERS, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO PLAY AROUND WITH YOU KNOW, DEFAULTING ON THE DEBT, THEN WOULDN'T YOU BE MOTIVATED TO CROSS PARTY LINES TO TRY TO FIND SOMEBODY SENSIBLE WHO COULD LEAD THE PARTY?

>> YOU TRY TO FIND SOMEBODY BUT I'M NOT SO SURE ANYMORE THAT FROM DEMOCRATS PERSPECTIVE, THAT McCARTHY WOULD BE THAT PERSON BECAUSE REMEMBER, INITIALLY AFTER JANUARY 6, HE WAS CRITICAL OF TRUMP AND THEY BE HE WENT DOWN AND KISSED THE RING AND TO THE OTHER QUESTION ABOUT WHERE I THINK IT WAS YOUR COMMENT, ANIRBAN, ABOUT WHY NOT FIND SOME PLACE WHERE THERE IS AGREEMENT, I MEAN THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, THIS IS A TEAM.

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS A TEAM.

AND YOU CAN'T HAVE ONE OR TWO PEOPLE ON THE TEAM DICTATING THE ENTIRE STRATEGY FOR THE TEAM AND THAT WHAT IS IS FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG HERE.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE UNITY ACROSS THE BOARD.

SIMPLY AN UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THINGS WORK.

>> MICHAEL.

>> I FIND IT FASCINATING TO CHAD'S POINT.

REPUBLICANS ALWAYS ASK DEMOCRATS TO PUT OUT FIRES THEY CREATED.

I FIND THAT FASCINATING.

>> AND SIX REPUBLICANS CAN JOIN JEFFRIES AND WE CAN HAVE A VERY INTERESTING SPEAKER.

>> THAT'S SOMETHING I'M PRETTY SURE IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> CORRECT.

>> >> AMAZON AND SALESFORCE ANNOUNCED LAYOFFS THIS WEEK, THE LATEST TECH COMPANIES TO LET WORKERS GO.

THE ACCELERATING LAYOFFS IN TECH SHINE A LIGHT ON PROBLEMS WITH THE LEGAL IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.

MANY TECH WORKERS ARE IN THE U.S. ON H-1B VISAS •AND WITHOUT JOBS, THEY MAY SOON HAVE TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY.

BUT THE DEMAND FOR FOREIGN WORKERS IN SPECIALIZED JOBS LIKE ENGINEERING AND COMPUTER SCIENCE IS MUCH GREATER THAN WE ALLOW IN, SO THE SYSTEM SEEMS BROKEN ALL THE WAY AROUND.

HOW CAN THIS PROBLEM BE FIXED?

>> WELL, I THINK THE FIRST THING TO UNDERSTAND IS AS YOU SAY, H-1B IS HOW TO BRING HIGHLY SKILLED WORKERS INTO THE COUNTRY.

FROM A PURELY MACROECONOMIC POINT OF VIEW, IT'S A SCARCE RESOURCE.

THE MORE OF THEM WE HAVE, THE BIGGER OUR ECONOMY IS AND THEY'RE SPECIALIZING IN THE TECH JOBS.

THEY'RE GOING TO BE EXPANDING THE TECHNOLOGICAL FRONTIER AND MAKING GROWTH EVEN BETTER AND SO , YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE FIX IT TO MAKE IT BETTER?

WE WANT MORE OF THEM.

THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

I THINK A MORE REALISTIC GOAL, MOVING FORWARD, IS TO CHANGE THE WAY THAT THOSE H HF 1BS ARE ALLOCATED BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THEY'RE ALLOCATED TO A RANDOM LOTTERY AND THAT'S A COLOSSAL WASTE OF RESOURCES AND TERRIBLE WAY TO FIGURE OUT WHO IS GOING TO COME INTO THE COUNTRY.

SOMETHING THAT MIGHT WORK BETTER IS THOSE WHO HAVE THE HIGHEST WAGE OFFERS TO THE FRONT OF THE QUEUE.

THAT'S MORE REALISTIC THAN TO THINK WE ARE GOING TO EXPAND IT.

>> YOU ARE SAYING WE ARE NOT GOING TO BRING IN MORE BECAUSE THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

CERTAINLY RIGHT NOW WITH CONGRESS THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE BUT WHY CAN'T WE PRODUCE ENOUGH WORKERS TO FILL THESE JOBS HERE IN THE U.S.?

>> I MEAN THAT'S A VERY LONG AND COMPLICATED QUESTION.

IN THE UNITED STATES, OUR OVERALL, WE DO HAVE DISCUSSED THIS.

THE UNITED STATES SCHOOL OF EDUCATION, WE HAVE FALLEN BEHIND IN MATH AND STEM SKILLS COMPARED TO OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD.

I WANT TO ADD A COUPLE OF NUANCES TO THIS.

H-1B HAS A TOTAL OF 65,000 QUOTA BUT THAT IS ALLOCATED BETWEEN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.

PLUS THERE IS A 20,000 FOR HIGHLY SPECIALIZED JOBS.

BUT THE NON-PROFIT SECTOR, SO, FOR EXAMPLE, UNIVERSITIES, AND COLLEGES, THEY DON'T HAVE A CAP.

SO IF YOU LOSE YOUR H-1B YOU MAY NEED TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY WITHIN 60 DAYS OR CHANGE YOUR STATUS TO A GRADUATE STUDENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

AND THAT WAY YOU CAN STAY WITHIN THE UNITED STATES.

SO ON THE WHOLE, YOU KNOW, I AGREE WITH CHAD COMPLETELY.

WE NEED TO INCREASE THE QUOTA AND WE DID.

BEFORE IT WAS 195,000 AND LATER IT WAS REDUCED.

I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU, CHAD, IF I'M A COMPANY AND I WANT THIS WORKER, THIS FOREIGN WORKER, AND THEY DON'T GET THAT LOTTERY, RIGHT?

SO MY JOB GOES COMPLETELY VACANT THEN?

IS THAT WHAT HAPPENS?

>> YEAH, MORE OR LESS.

YOU DON'T GET TO HIRE THE PERSON THAT YOU WANT TO AND SO IF YOU ARE MICROSOFT, WHAT YOU DO IS IF YOU HAVE ONE OPENING, YOU EXTEND THREE JOB OFFERS FOR IT DAWS STATISTICALLY YOU'LL GET ONE OUT OF THREE BUT IF YOU ARE A SMALLER OPERATION, THEN YOU DON'T PARTICIPATE AT ALL AND YOU END UP GOING TO WHAT ARE EFFECTIVELY LIKE TEMP COMPANIES FOR HIGH SKILLED WORKERS.

SOMETIMES THEY'RE REFERRED TO AS INDIAN OUTSOURCING COMPANIES, AND SO FORTH.

>> AND IT'S THAT VERY SITUATION THAT VICTOR AND SOME OTHERS WHO ARE PART OF A BABY GROUP OF SENATORS WHO, OVER 15 YEARS, HAS IDENTIFIED THAT AS THE PROBLEM WHEREBY YOU HAVE THESE OUTSOURCING COMPANIES AND OTHER COUNTRIES THAT WILL SEND IN WORKERS TO MESH COMPANIES AS-- AMERICAN COMPANIES AS TEMPORARY WORKERS, TRAIN THEM AND THEN HAVE THEM GO BACK TO THEIR COUNTRIES.

SO IT'S NOT-- THESE SENATORS ARGUE, NOT HELPING TO ACCOMPLISH THE PIRP OF H-1B PROGRAM TO BEGIN WITH.

BUT IF I COULD GO BACK TO THE POINT THAT YOU WERE ASKING EARLIER.

I CONTINUE TO ASK, HOW IS IT THAT ONE OF THE GREATEST COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD IS UNABLE TO PRODUCE ENOUGH FOLKS WHO CAN FILL THESE HIGH SKILLED ALSO HIGH PAYING JOBS?

AND TO SAY THAT IT'S THE EDUCATION SYSTEM, I THINK BEGS THE QUESTION, WHAT IS IT ABOUT OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE BEEN WORKING AT THIS SINCE 1957 AND THE LAUNCHING OF SPUTNIK AND WE STILL HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT HOW TO PRODUCE ENOUGH FOLKS WHO CAN FILL THESE JOBS.

AND IF IT'S COSTS, LOWER THE DAMN COSTS.

>> THE EASIEST WAY TO THINK ABOUT THAT IS THAT THIS IS A SCARCITY PROBLEM, RIGHT?

AND IN SOME SENSE NO ONE PERSON OR ONE COUNTRY CAN DO EVERYTHING, OKAY?

SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE DISTRIBUTION OF STEM SKILLS IN AMERICA, WE HAVE SOME VERY GOOD NATIVE BORN TECH WORKERS AND SOME THAT ARE NOT VERY GOOD.

BUT WHEN IT COMES TO OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM, WE HAVE SELECTION BENEFITS, SO OUR COLLEGES AND OUR FIRMS GET TO CHOOSE THE BEST PEOPLE COMING IN.

THE LAW FAVORS STEM IMMIGRANTS AS WELL.

AND ALSO THAT STEM SKILLS ARE INTERNATIONALLY TRANSFERABLE ACROSS, YOU KNOW, INTERNATIONAL BORDERS AND SO FORTH.

SO THAT TENDS TO BE THE SKILL THAT THE IMMIGRANTS ARE BRINGING WITH THEM.

WHEREAS NATIVE BORN AMERICANS MORE LIKELY DO MANAGERIAL JOBS, LAW JOBS, FINANCE JOBS AND THAT SORT OF THING.

>> IF THESE JOBS ARE SO DESIRABLE AS YOU POINTED OUT, NINA, HIGH PAYING JOBS, DOESN'T SUPPLY AND DEMAND DICTATE THAT AMERICAN STUDENTS WOULD WANT TO, YOU KNOW, ASPIRE TO THOSE JOBS, MICHAEL?

>> IF YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT AMERICA HASN'T DONE SO WELL, THINK ABOUT WHAT IT HAS DONE.

HBC, HOWARD UNIVERSITY PUTS OUT 35% OF BLACK ENGINEERS TODAY, SPELLMAN COLLEGE, ALL BLACK WOMEN'S COLLEGE PUTS OUT 25% OF COMPUTER PEOPLE.

I HAVE AN OBSERVATION FOR CHAD.

I LIKED YOUR ARTICLE BY THE WAY WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT THE LUCK FACTOR, RIGHT?

>> IN THE LOTTERY.

>> IS THERE A WAY TO DETERMINE THE VALUE OF SKILLED IMMIGRANT WORKERS TO THE U.S. ECONOMY THAT MIGHT SERVE TO DETERMINE HOW MANY OF THOSE VISAS ARE MADE AVAILABLE BASED ON MARKET FORCES VERSUS THE WACK A MOLE PIECE MEAL IN WASHINGTON.

>> WILLING IN ES TO PAY.

THOSE WITH THE HIGHEST WAGE OFERLS GO TO THE FRONT OF THE QUEUE.

YOU MIGHT SAY THAT DOESN'T WORK FOR SOME OCCUPATIONS LIKE MAYBE SOCIAL WORKERS OR WHATEVER.

SO YOU CAN HAVE CARVEOUTS FOR THAT BUT IN PRINCIPLE, HIGH WAGE WORKERS.

>> JUST QUICKLY, IT SEEMS LIKE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

ONE IS THE DEMAND OF WORKERS WHO WANT TO COME TO THE U.S. AND THE OTHER IS THE NEED FOR THE LABOR MARKET HERE AND SEEING THAT THERE ARE SO MANY LAYOFFS, I WONDER IS THERE REALLY THE NEED THAT HAS BEEN THERE IN PLACE BEFORE?

I THOUGHT I WOULD THROW THAT OUT THERE.

>> WE ARE GOING TO LEAVE THAT QUESTION HANGING.

BECAUSE WE HAVE TO MOVE ON.

OVERLOOKED A BIT DURING THE HOLIDAY RUSH WAS THE NEWS THAT NEW YORK STATE HAS APPROVED A PLAN TO REQUIRE NON-FOSSIL FUEL HEATING SYSTEMS IN NEW HOUSES.

STARTING IN 2025, MOST NEW HOMES WILL NEED TO INSTALL HEAT PUMPS INSTEAD OF OIL OR GAS FURNACES.

THE "SCOPING" PLAN COMES FROM THE CLIMATE ACTION COUNCIL, CREATED BY LAW TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ACHIEVE THE STATE'S CLIMATE GOALS.

NOW THE STATE HAS A YEAR TO DEVELOP THE REGULATIONS NEEDED TO PUT THE PLAN INTO PRACTICE.

THE COUNCIL'S PLAN IS AGGRESSIVE.

IS IT TOO MUCH, TOO FAST?

>> I DON'T REALLY THINK IT IS TOO MUCH TOO FAST.

LET ME BACK IT UP TO GIVE THE LAY OF THE LAND.

IN 2019, THE NEW YORK STATE PASSED CLIMATE LEADERSHIP AND COMMUNITY PROTECTION ACT AND MANDATED NEW YORK STATE AS A WHOLE MOVES AWAY IS TO ALMOST TO ZERO EMISSIONS BY 2040 AND SO THIS CLIMATE COUNCIL IS BASICALLY MANDATED TO FIGURE OUT THE PLAN HOW TO ACHIEVE THOSE GOALS OF ZERO EMISSION AND ONE OF THEM IS THAT ALL NEW HOUSES WOULD HAVE TO HAVE HEAT PIMPS AND OTHER HOUSES WHICH ARE CHANGING THEIR FURNACES BEYOND 2030 MUST HAVE HEAT PUMPS.

NOW THERE IS SOME DATA TO SUPPORT THIS.

40% OF HOUSEHOLD EMISSIONS ARE COMING FROM HOUSEHOLD EMISSIONS.

SO ON THE WHOLE, THIS WOULD HELP ACTUALLY PEOPLE WHO RELY ON OIL, YOU KNOW, NOT NORTH COUNTRY AND SO ON, TO GET A HEAT PUMP AND ADD IT TO THE GRID, BUT THE PROBLEM IS, AND THESE ARE THE THREE PEOPLE WHO DID NOT VOTE FOR THE PLAN IN THAT 22 MEMBER COMMITTEE, IS THAT WHAT IS THE RELIABILITY?

WE ARE GOING TO DOUBLE THE LOAD ON THE ELECTRICITY INFRASTRUCTURE IN NEW YORK.

DO WE HAVE THAT?

HOW ARE WE GOING TO SUBSIDIZE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOW LOOKING AT SOMETHING AROUND 20 TO $30,000 WORTH OF EXPENSES?

NOW PEOPLE SAY INFLATION REDUCTION AND OTHER SUBSIDIES WOULD DO IT BUT I DOUBT THIS.

SO IN THAT SENSE, IT IS A LITTLE BIT AGGRESSIVE.

BUT IT IS IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

NOW, THIS IS NOT ONE AND DONE THOUGH.

I MUST ADD THAT A LARGE PART OF THIS IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE AND NEW LAWS CAN COME OUT.

AND IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT-- THERE IS TRANSPORTATION, EDUCATION AND SO ON.

>> THE OVERALL PLAN, THE SCOPING PLAN THAT HAS GONE OUT BUT SPECIFICALLY WHAT IS GOING TO HIT MOST HOMEOWNERS IS, YOU KNOW, ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU MAY BE LOOKING AT A PRETTY BIG EXPENSE.

CHAD YOU ARE SHAKING YOUR HEAD.

I KNOW YOU ARE THE ECONOMIST OVER THERE.

YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE.

>> WE SHOULD ALL BE OFFENDED BY THIS, NO THE BECAUSE HEAT PUMPS ARE BAD OR GLOBAL WARMING IS A HOAX OR SOMETHING.

NO.

IT'S ABOUT THE COMMAND AND CONTROL ASPECTS OF THIS.

THIS POLICY IS WHOLLY UNNECESSARY PARTICULARLY BECAUSE THIS SCOPING PLAN ALSO INCLUDES A CAP AND TRADE COMPONENT AND THAT'S ALL THAT YOU NEED TO APPROPRIATELY PRICE CARBON EMISSIONS AND ENCOURAGE ENERGY CONSERVATION.

AND THE CAP AND TRADE THING, WHAT MAKES IT BETTER IS IT ALLOWS PEOPLE THE FREEDOM TO DECIDE HOW THEY'RE GOING TO REDUCE THE CARBON FOOTPRINT THEMSELVES WITHOUT SOME GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRAT TELLING THEM DISPL.

HOW LONG WOULD THAT TAKE IF YOU WENT CAP AND TRADE AND OF COURSE WE TRIED.

THERE WAS AN LEGISLATIVE ATTEMPT TO GET THERE WHICH WAS KILLED SEVERAL YEARS AGO IN WASHINGTON BUT THAT IS GOING TO TAKE TIME.

EVEN IF WE HAD IT, FOR THE MARKET TO WORK ITS WAY THROUGH.

>> WHY WOULD THAT TAKE TIME?

>> EVEN IF IT DOES TAKE TIME, MY CONCERN HERE IS IT WILL TAKE MONEY, AND NOT MONEY ON THE PART OF THE GOVERNMENT, BUT MONEY ON THE PART OF INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNERS WHO WILL HAVE TO FORK OVER THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT AN ANIRBAN WAS TALKING ABOUT AND I DO NOT BUY THIS ARGUMENT THAT SUBSIDIES AND REBATES WILL DO IT BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN HOW THOSE THINGS HAVE FLOPPED WITH THE STUDENT LOAN PROGRAM, EVEN PANDEMIC FUNDING HASN'T BEEN SPENT.

AND MOST OF IT THAT HAS BEEN SPENT HAS BEEN FOR CORPORATIONS SO I'M NOT WILLING TO TRUST THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO MAKE THIS AFFORDABLE BUT I PUSH BACK A LITTLE BIT CHAD BECAUSE I HAVE THE SAME REACTION THAT YOU DO AND SAIP THAT GOVERNMENT DOES HAVE A ROLE IN STOPPING US FROM CONTINUALLY KICKING THIS CAN DOWN THE ROAD.

THAT COULD GO ON FOREVER.

SO GOVERNMENT SHOULD LEAD.

BUT LEAD IN A WAY THAT MAKES IMPLEMENTATION FEASIBLE FOR EVERYONE BUT ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO ARE DISADVANTAGED AND DON'T HAVE $30,000 TO PUT IN PLACE IN NEW HEATING SYSTEMS.

>> TO GET WHERE WE FEED TO GO, IT IS GOING TO NEED TO TAKE SOME KIND OF PUSH.

AS ANIRBAN POINTED OUT, BUILDINGS ACCOUNT FOR 30% OR MORE OF GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS.

MICHAEL, WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THE HEAT PUMP QUESTION?

>> I THIS I WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE THAT, I HAVE A TENDENCY TO LOOK AT IT THROUGH THE JANE DOUGH OR JOE SIX PACK, FOR EXAMPLE.

DOUGH OR JOE SIX PACK.

IT WOULD BE FOR NEW YORKERS TO UNDERSTAND IT CLEARLY.

>> IT IS AN INTERESTING PROBLEM BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT A HEAT PUMP IN AND SO THERE IS THAT ADVANTAGE OF THIS KIND OF POLICY, TRYING TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO CONSIDER HEAT PUMPS.

BUT I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT THE CAP AND TRADE KINDS OF POLICIES WOULD TAKE A LONG TIME TO IMPLEMENT BECAUSE THEY COULD BE AS SIMPLE AS, YOU KNOW, TAXING AT THE PUMP, TAXING PEOPLE WHO ARE USING FOSSIL FUELS TO HEAT THEIR HOMES.

AND THAT'S, AGAIN, A WAY OF TRYING TO APPROPRIATELY PRICE CARBON EMISSIONS AND THEN I CAN DECIDE IF I WANT AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE.

I CAN DECIDE IF I WANT A HEAT PUMP.

>> I THINK I AGREE WITH THAT.

SO THE GOVERNMENT HAS DONE WITH ECONOMY AND CARS AND STUFF SO THEY CAN DO IT FOR THE HOUSES.

CAP AND TRADE MEANS IF I HAVE A LARGE HOUSE AND I'M USING A FURNACE, I WILL HAVE TO SELL SOME CREDITS TO SOMEBODY WHO IS GOING TO LOWER EMISSIONS.

>> WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT HERE.

WE'LL RUSH, I'M SURE AT SOME POINT IF THIS PLAN GOES THROUGH.

As AND Fs,NINA WITH YOUR F FIRST.

>> LIKE FORMER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON SAID, ABORTION SHOULD BE LEGAL, SAFE AND RARE.

BUT THE FDA'S RECENT APPROVAL OF ANOTHER OVER THE COUNTER ABORTION PILL IS RAISING SAFETY CONCERNS.

INSTEAD OF GOING TO A DOCTOR, WOMEN CAN NOW GET A PRECIPITATION FOR THE PILL OVER THE TELEPHONE AND AT ANY POINT UP TO 10 WEEKS IN THE PREGNANCY AND BECAUSE MOST WOMEN ARE ONLY HALF OF WOMEN KNOW WHERE THEY ARE IN A PREGNANCY, THIS LEADS ME TO MAKE THE POINT THAT THERE IS SUCH A THICK THING AS GOOD CHOICE AND BAD CHOICE.

>> ANIRBAN.

>> MY F GOES TO THE REPRESENTATIVE GEORGE SANTOS FOR LYING ABOUT ALMOST EVERYTHING THAT HE HAS SAID SO FAR ABOUT HIS LIFE AND HIS JEWISHNESS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE IS GOING TO DO NEXT BUT I HAVE TWO SUGGESTIONS.

ONE, START A NETFLIX SERIES SAYING WHO IS THE REAL GEORGE SANTOS OR A CHILDREN'S BOOK SERIES CALLED OH NAUGHTY GEORGE.

>> YOU KNOW THAT NETFLIX SERIES IS COMING.

AND NOW MICHAEL, YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO THE AMERICAN POLITICAL CLASS FOR THE LAST 20 OR 30 YEARS OR SO OPERATING WITHOUT ANY LEVEL OF TRANSPARENCY OR INTEGRITY THAT ALLOWED A GUY LIKE GEORGE SANTOS TOY AMERICAN AND POISON THE WELL FURTHER FOR AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

>> CHAD.

>> MY F IS A LOT LIKE ANIRBAN BUT MINE GOES TO FORMER DNC CHAIR DONNA BRAZIL WHEN DISCUSSING THE ELECTION OF GEORGE SANTOS, SHE SAID "THE DEMOCRATIC CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE DID VET HIM BUT THEY GAVE THE INFORMATION TO THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA."

WHAT I HEARD FROM THAT IS WE WANTED TO WIN THAT ELECTION BUT WE WANTED THE MEDIA TO WIN IT FOR US.

IF THAT'S THE KIND OF CAMPAIGN STRATEGY THAT NEW YORK DEMANDS HAVE IN PLACE, I NOW SEE WHY THEY DID SO POORLY HERE AND TO ANSWER MICHAEL, YEAH, I'M A REPUBLICAN ASKING DEMOCRATS NOT TO PUNT ON THE RESPONSIBILITY.

>> NINA YORKS AIF.

>> AS OF THIS WEEK, NEW YORK BECAME THE SIXTH STATE IN THE COUNTRY TO LEGALIZE HUMAN COMPOSTING OR GREEN BURIALS FOR THOSE LOOKING FOR AN ECOFRIENDLY ALTERNATIVE TO BURIAL OR CREMATION.

WE NOW HAVE THE OPTION OF HAVING OUR REMAINS PLACED IN A STEEL CONTAINER AND THEY BE HAVING OUR REMAINS TUSHED INTO SOIL SO WE CAN NOW NOT JUST ASK THE QUESTION HOW DOES IT GROW, WITHOUT WHO DOES IT GROW?

>> QUICKLY THROUGH THE A.

>> MY A GO THE PEOPLE OF BUFFALO WHO WEATHERED ONE OF THE WORST STORMS IN RECENT HISTORY AND ESPECIALLY TO THOSE WHO HELPED CARE FOR A DISABLED MAN AND ALLOWED HIM TO GET HELP THROUGH FACEBOOK LIVE STREAM.

>> MY KAY TO FORMER "IVORY TOWER" PANELIST BOB SPITZER HE WROTE ANOTHER WONDERFUL VERSION OF HIS GUN CONTROL BOOK.

WHAT IS MARVELOUS ABOUT IT, IN THE ACKNOWLEDGMENT SECTION HE PAYS TRIBUTE TO A LADY NAMED DEBBIE, ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT.

SO CONGRATULATIONS AND FOR BOB SPITZER CONTINUING TO BE A CLASS ACT.

>> CHAD.

>> MY A GOES TO PORTIA AND SCIENTISTS IN CHIM WHO-- THIS SO CALLED E-FUEL PAVES THE WAY FOR CARBON NEUTRAL CARS POWERED BY INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES AND SPEAKS TO THE POWER OF THE MARKET IN SOLVING CLIMATE SOLUTIONS.

UNLIKE THAT COMMAND AND CONTROL MALARKEY FROM EARLIER IN THE PROGRAM.

>> AND VERY NICE MICHAEL, YOUR A TO BOB.

HE CAN COME BACK ANY TIME HE WANTS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO AT DRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, YOU CAN DO SO ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FOR ALL OF US AT "IVORY TOWER," HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.