[gentle guitar music] [gentle guitar music] - Welcome to "The Songwriters."

I'm Ken Paulson, and today, we have a musician of renown, to say the least.

We're- we're here today because this man's a member of the National Songwriters Hall Of Fame.

But he has also been on keyboards, and organs, on many of the greatest hits of rock and roll, and soul, and we are so pleased to be sitting here today- with Spooner Oldham.

Good to see you, Spooner.

- Good to see you, Ken and, um, it's finally got a little cooler outside, the weather.

Uh, it was so hot in North Alabama- - I was gonna say [laugh].

- The last few days.

[laugh] - That was not a pleasure trip today, but we thank you for making that- that trip.

- Well, good to be here, you know.

Always good to be in the- around Nashville area, Murfreesboro today, you know.

- So, you know, there is, uh, it does strike me that your career, and our conversation today is very much like our conversation with Steve Cropper, and that both of you came from hot music scenes, members of very hot bands, played on some of the greatest records.

And in the process, had the chance to write songs for cool people, with cool people.

- Amen.

- And then you end up in the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame.

- Uh, yeah.

uh, Steve's a friend of mine, and you- you're right.

As growing up as a teenager, I was, you know, listening to Stax Records, and look at the label written by Steve Cropper, Wilson Pickett, "In the Midnight Hour" and so forth.

So, I love the record they did there, you know, in Memphis and- - I'm sure.

- So, when we started... a house band down in, fa- uh, well, a famous studio in Muscle Shoals, Alabama, it was, like, ah, sort of- well, it's sort of like them, you know.

You know, they did this before, so we- [smacks] and the the deal was, you- you know, pretty much, uh, a singer who wanted a band- we were the band.

- [laughs] - Leave your band at home or- you know?

- Right and, uh, and- and so, let's note that very carefully, Fame Studios, Muscle Shoal Sound.

- Yes, sir.

- Um, anybody who's a fan of R&B Soul Music of the last half-century knows that.

You know, it's right there with the sound of Sun Records, it's, uh, right there with the Quonset Hut in Nashville.

In terms of creative fonts, things that, um, new sounds, ambitious sounds, exciting music, and, uh, and you were obviously one of the architects.

So, I wanna talk to you today primarily, though as- as a songwriter.

- Okay.

- And, um, you've had great success.

I do have to ask you this question, just a historical footnote.

I spent much of my record-listening life, hearing about Spooner Oldham, and I've always assumed that Spooner Oldham was a, was an old family name.

[chuckles] That's not where Spooner came from.

- Naw.

- Can you tell us a bit about that?

- Oh, the nickname, Spooner?

- Yeah, yeah.

- Yeah, my real name, like my mom, and sisters, and aunts, and uncles, call me Lindon, L-I-N-D-O-N. And the fifth grade, this man, friend on- on campus said, "W- what happened to your right eye?"

At the time, it had a cloud over the pupil.

And I tell him the story that when I was 2 or 3 years old, in the kitchen in my parents home, I climbed up on the, uh, kitchen stove handles, reaching for what I thought was an empty pan.

It was empty and clean, except it had a spoon in it.

And I dropped it in my eye and blinded it- uh, and uh- - Oh, that's terrible, that's terrible.

- So- and I hated it- I told Charles Phillips- he was, uh, picked up a spoon, he started calling- and I thought, what a cruel joke, that's terrible- - [chuckles] - I'd hide from him in the hallways at school.

And I told him, I used to hate him for a couple of weeks.

- Yeah.

- But, then I realized, you know, children, they weren't being mean, they just liked the little short name, and- - And you kept it?

- Yeah, yeah, I mean, uh, I didn't run from it, you know?

- I, I, I bet you there are little boys all over the South named Spooner.

- [laughs] I don't know.

- Because, uh, their dads were big fans of the Muscles- uh, Muscle Shoals sound.

Yeah, I- I- I thought I was going for a cute anecdote, and then it's tragic.

I, I feel bad about that.

- Oh no, no.

It's a- It's, uh, I've learned to, you know, live with the good and the bad.

It's like, uh, I saw Jennifer Hudson recently.

She's in a new movie called, "Respect."

And, uh, she, she says her bad experiences helped her cre- recreate Aretha- And it takes a little bit of all of us sometimes to tell a true story, you know.

- Well, one plus is that, whenever anybody mentions Spooner, they are all talking about the same guy.

I- I'm struck by how early you are plugged into music, and- and- and a soulful music.

Was there a lot of- was there something like R&B, or rock, or anything around your house when you're a growing up?

- No.

I've heard so many writers and players say the same old story but it all- You know, as a teenager, I didn't buy records, I'd turn on the radio, and I'd listen to WLAC, John R. and Hoss Allen from Nashville Station- They play R&B late at night.

I call it R&B.

I don't know what they called it, you know.

It was, uh, soul- - Probably race music at the time.

- Race music at the time, and I think Jerry Wexler coined the phrase, uh, Rhythm and Blues.

- Right.

- He worked for Billboard Magazine.

But anyway, um, uh, and then, I- I couldn't stand much of the Grand Ole Opry.

I'd turn it on, but, you know, but now, you know, anyway- I like- I listened to some country music back in those days.

Whatever I could find on the radio, and, ah- but I learned a lot of my enjoyment of listening to music- My dad and his two brothers had a band.

Uh, and I was 2 or 3 years old, I listened to 'em practice They had a seven-piece group which was a combination of probably Bluegrass, uh, Western Swing, uh, Folk- odd- odd batch of stuff.

So- so I learned a lot of those songs.

And, uh, but rhythm and blues, I think- I was sort of thrown into it as you may- I didn't study it.

Uh, I was at, uh, me and Dan Penn, were at a music festival in England a few years ago and standing on the side with the fenced area, the entertainers were waiting to get on stage, and some journalists approached me, and said "You know about-" he gave me a name, it's an obscure name.

I've never heard of it, I said, "No, you need to go talk to that guy over there.

"He, he's a, he's up on the Blues.

"I don't know anything about the Blues."

[laughs] - So, uh, what is almost unprecedented, is you are in a studio at age 15, playing on a session for Arthur Alexander.

- Yeah - And, oh, by the way, also there is David Briggs.

- Yes - And David, you and David were childhood friends?

- Yeah- I actually, he- we were- uh, he lived in Killen, Alabama.

I lived in Center Star, it's three miles- So we went to the same schools.

- So, just an aside to the audience- - Oh, yeah.

- I- I- I just want to explain [chuckle] that Spooner is the king of keyboards, organs, and all that in Muscle Shoals.

But David Briggs grows up to be one of the greatest session men on keyboards, in Nashville.

- Yeah - They grew up together.

They played together in the eighth grade.

That's a- that's just cosmic.

- Yeah.

- How did that happen?

- Thing was okay, uh- we went to Killen Junior High School, which they've torn down now, but, I think he was a year ahead of me.

But anyway, there was a teacher, piano teacher you could pay $10, and get one hour lesson, once a week.

That was my program and his program also.

It was just coincidental that we didn't have classes together.

But at the end of the year you're required to go in the auditorium, and play a recital, they called it.

And in that- in mine and David's case, we sat on a piano bench, and played a duet together in the eighth grade- You know, whatever we'd learned that year, you know.

But that's essentially a basis of my, uh, a- formal training was first, second, and third grade piano.

Which- very elemental, basic.

And, a thing I appreciated about the lessons- I still don't read very well.

I- I don't want to read because people like me to be a creative input, and I can't be creative, reading Bach or- or- you know, what I'm saying?

I just have to block that out, because- So, this I learned one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight- you can't do that with five fingers.

So you got to learn how to get over there, you know.

- That's great.

[laugh] - So when did you first taste songwriting?

- Uh, I think at my mom and dad's house there was an upright piano.

I had- me and Bill Patton, got it down the stairs- And we got it down there and realized- that it wouldn't fit in the door so- - [laughs] - I went upstairs, and asked Mom and Dad, could I- uh, could I knock a little- of the brick block wall out to get the piano in?

-Oh, yeah.

There's still a block wall missing there- but we got it in there.

- [laughs] - And I- I'd go down there and play a little, and rock my little teenage, ah, puppy love songs, and put them in the bench, and never play them to anybody- except my sister, Judy, uh, she sang, and, uh, I- I'd show 'em to her, and she'd sing it.

But that was really the, the s- seed, the starting point that, okay.

yeah, you can write a song and somebody sing it, you know, and you can play it.

- It's the rare parent that allows you to dismantle the house.

[chuckle] That was, ah, that's quite a story.

- [laughs] - That's a yep- - And- and- and your first professional cut was what?

- I accredited it to, uh, "Let's Do It Over" by Joe Simon that Dan Penn and I wrote.

And, uh- well, I'll tell you a little story about m- music business, uh, my introduction to music business.

Okay, BJ Records had that little 45 out, and I- I'm already in the studio working with artists.

And, and so, I'm reading the Billboard magazine every week.

And, uh, there was a full page ad of BJ magazine like, "We're number three record, "number four record company in the world this month."

Next month, "we're number three record company in the world."

This little record we wrote, came out on that label.

I'm excited because they had the Beatles first record.

[knock] So, I thought, uh, we were on good grounds here, you know, getting a good start.

Well, the next thing that happened, they went bankrupt.

So, I never got paid, [laughs] - Except the- the radio airplay monies came in, you know, the record sales not a cent.

- Did, uh, you've written a lot of songs with Dan Penn.

- Yes, sir.

- And I assume you know Dan from way back.

How old were you when you guys got together?

- We were teenagers, the both of us.

He moved up to Florence, Alabama, near where I lived.

Uh, there was a upstairs over the City Drug Store, there was a piano, a 15 inch per second tape recorder which is professional quality at the time.

And, uh, and he- I think Billy Sherrill he tend to me.

Billy Sherrill the well-known record producer in Nashville, uh, George and Tammy among others, Charlie Rich and so forth.

Anyway, um, talked him into coming up there because Billy had moved to Florence.

There's a little music thing going there.

So, we- he and I, and a lot of us, we learned to, um- learned a lot of our musical buddies through that.

Jerry Kerrigan came- you know he was around a lot, a great session player eventually in Nashville and Muscle Shoals.

And Norbert Putman, he was around there and, uh, Mike Shepherd, who was a drummer instructor with the naval band for many years.

So there was an odd little birthing place of wannabes essentially, and learning to engineer on the little old thing.

Rick Hall learned a little there, Billy Sherill- So, it was odd, you know, because it- - That's an environment were we make great music, uh.

- It was.

- I- I think I've teased the audience long enough without hearing your music.

I wonder if you could do us a great favor of, of playing your big hit for James & Bobby Purify.

- Yeah, I can do that, I think.

- Where did, where did "I'm Your Puppet" come from?

- "I'm Your Puppet", well,, uh, Dan Penn and I got together one evening to write a song, try to write a song.

So, he- he had bought this new, uh, 12-string guitar.

He's over there, just he and I in there.

He's over there tuning, I got- I'm sitting at a baby grand piano waiting on him to tune it.

He- it's got 12 strings, right, you know.

- [laughs] - And then- and he finally got it tuned, he's doing a- ♪ na, na, nene, na, na, nene ♪ and I started doing, [plays piano] ♪ do, do nene, do, do, nene- ♪ - [laughs] - But it- it started sounding like a, you know, carnivaly like thing.

And- and really, I don't recall, and he doesn't, I don't think, know where the essence of the song came from.

But that was the beginning, the seed, you know.

- Please let us hear the finished product.

[piano intro music- "I'm Your Puppet"] ♪ Pull the string, and I'll wink at you.

♪ ♪ I'm your puppet.

♪ [piano music] ♪ I'll do funny things, if you want me to.

♪ ♪ I'm your puppet.

♪ [piano music] ♪ I'm yours to have, and hold.

♪ ♪ Darling, you've got full control of your puppet.

♪ [piano music] ♪ I'm your puppet.

♪ [piano music] ♪ Just pull another string, and I'll kiss your lips.

♪ ♪ I'm your puppet.

♪ [piano music] ♪ Snap your finger, and I'll turn you some flips.

♪ ♪ I'm your puppet.

♪ [piano music] ♪ I'm yours to have and hold.

♪ [piano music] ♪ Darling, you've got full control of your puppet.

♪ [piano music] [humming] ♪ Of your puppet.

♪ [piano music] ♪ I'm just a toy, just a funny boy.

♪ ♪ That makes you laugh when you're blue.

♪ [piano music] ♪ I'll be warm or cold, do just what I'm told.

♪ ♪ I'll do anything for you.

♪ ♪ I'm your puppet.

♪ [humming] ♪ I'm your puppet.

♪ [piano music] ♪ Pull them little strings, and I'll sing you a song.

♪ ♪ I'm your puppet.

♪ [piano music] ♪ You can make me do wrong, or make me do wrong.

♪ ♪ I'm your puppet.

♪ [piano music] ♪ Your every wish is my command.

♪ ♪ All you gotta do is just wiggle your little hand.

♪ ♪ I'm your puppet.

♪ [piano music] [humming] ♪ I'm your puppet.

♪ [piano music] ♪ I'm your walking, talking, living, loving puppet, ♪ ♪ Hanging on a string, I'll do anything.

♪ ♪ I'll hold you, and love you, ♪ [humming] ♪ I'm your puppet.

♪ [strikes single piano key] - [laughs] - Bravo!

Bravo!

You know, you mentioned that, uh, BJ had the first Beatles release, um, because other labels had initially turned the Beatles down, but BJ licensed it.

The coming- the Beatles changed the music charts dramatically.

It was no longer a friendly turf for Andy Williams, or others.

It- it, he had to have rock and roll.

And it's interesting to see American rock and roll bands, young kids adapt to create music, that can be competitive with people like the Beatles.

And that happens in your neighborhood with a band called, The Box Tops.

Uh, 16 year old, Alex Chilton forms a band, and he could not have arrived at a better place to nurture his talent, or his sound.

I- I know you didn't have any direct involvement in "The Letter," but you co-write "Cry Like A Baby."

You, you, uh, you, you, uh, end up- uh, he wrote, "I Met Her In Church," which sounds exactly like a Spooner Oldham song.

- That's one of my Dad's favorite.

[chuckle] - Oh really?

- Yeah,, uh, he get on the beer joint, and then the jukebox, and 8- 825 or whatever.

[laughs] - So, so, so, you, um, actually, we're in the middle of this young bands emergence.

It became one of the top bands in the country for a while.

Uh, did that surprise you?

This was not- this was not Percy Sledge.

This was Rock and Roll by young, white kids.

- Uh, well, you know, the world I live in, eh, uh, there's no surprises.

You make surprises happen.

That's my theory, you know.

If so, yeah, I'm glad when surprises happen.

But, um, and I'm, you know, my- in my life, in my music, some of my favorite things have been, uh, working with new artists- - Right.

- And then they become stars.

So, yeah, um, but The Box Tops, they were really young, and it was good to hear 'em, hear that record, "The Letter."

Like you said, I had nothing to do with it- Dan produced, engineered it, Alex sung, and, um, and the band, The Box Tops played on that record.

Later, I played on some of The Box Tops singing along with the Reggie Young, Tommy Cogbill, Bobby Emmons, Mike Leach- a good band.

- You've had, uh, you've had a rich writing career and, uh- - You've had a rich writing career, and I, and I- It's interesting because, so, here's Percy Sledge- You play organ on the classic, "When A Man Loves A Woman."

- Yes.

- And- and it's an un- unbelievably great record.

- It is.

- But, you also wrote for Percy Sledge, and I want to, um, ask you about a song called, "Out of Left Field."

Tell me how that came about.

- Well, there again, Dan Penn and I got together one evening to, uh, to write a song and it just, uh- I don't know that idea just evolved out of the air, sort of- uh, you know, what do you do with that title?

I, uh, feel you could just make it a love song.

Even though it was a baseball- - [chuckles] Right.

- You know, it was a left field goal, but it's making something that's, ah, relatable in real terms in real life, so, uh, yeah.

- Can we hear that, please?

- Yeah, and Dan took it to Marlon Green, who's- he and Quinn and I, we were producing Precious Legend, the next day actually, and then they wanted to do it.

So, you know, they did it.

Percy did good- let's see.

[plays piano intro "Out of Left Field" by Percy Sledge] ♪ When least expected, ♪ [piano music] ♪ Fate stumbles in.

♪ [piano music] ♪ Brings light to the darkness ♪ [piano music] ♪ Oh, what a friend.

♪ [piano music] ♪ I needed someone to call my own.

♪ ♪ Suddenly, out left field.

♪ ♪ Out left field, out left field.

♪ [piano music] ♪ Love came along.

♪ [piano music] ♪ I was walking down a road that went no where.

♪ [piano music] ♪ Building dreams that were all left by the way side.

♪ ♪ And out of the blue, ♪ ♪ Honey, I found you, oh, yeah ♪ [piano music] ♪ Sugar and peaches in a paradise land.

♪ ♪ Good love and sweetness, ♪ ♪ Have taken their stand.

♪ ♪ She made a mountain of love, ♪ ♪ From a little grain of sand.

♪ ♪ Suddenly, out of left field.

♪ ♪ Out of left field.

♪ ♪ Out of left field.

♪ ♪ Came a lover and a friend.

♪ ♪ Came out of nowhere.

♪ ♪ Every thing is alright now.

♪♪ [laughs] - Outstanding.

You know, we've just got a couple minutes left, but I- I- I can not- and we just scratched the surface.

I, um, I can't let you leave though without asking you about, um, Aretha Franklin.

Because everywhere these days, there's been a recent miniseries, there is a brand new film, as you say, uh, Jennifer Hudson, and you show up- or actors portraying you, show up in both.

And, so, have you watching this- when you see that, and they- they refer to Spooner, this is the guy, there's a, a scene that a- a- apparently is the stuff of Legend which was the first time you're trying to work with Aretha, her husband's being difficult.

And, uh, and they were looking for a start to, to, "I Never Loved A Man, The Way I Love You".

Is that a, is that all true?

- Well, yeah, as I recall, uh, yeah, it was a difficult- The first song, well, Aretha got to most of the show with Ted White, her husband, and Jerry Wexler, and Tom Dowd, the producer, engineers, and they called them the engineers.

So, first song day one, I had the whole- and there used to be a chalkboard, uh, in the lobby- uh, like a high school month of January calendar.

- Uh-huh.

- And,, uh, I think January the 5th or 6th, that whole week was Aretha Franklin, so- It ended in one day, but one of the songs, uh, we did was a- we- we couldn't really get a handle on how to do it, or what to do with it, um- So, I'm sitting over there while everybody's looking around scratching their head.

- [chuckle] - What do we do?

I'm thinking, 'Well, I don't want it to end this way.

'This is going nowhere.'

So, I- you know, dreamed- I'm sitting over there with myself doing this riff.

plays piano riff] - [laughs] [play piano riff] -And Dan Penn and, ah, Jeff- simultaneously said, "Spooner's got it."

- Spooner's got it.

[laughs] - And so, everybody in, you know, they start playing.

We had some- a- a rhythm to follow, you know.

- That phrase, that phrase- "Spooner's got it.'

I'm sure has been uttered many, many times in recording studios.

- Well, I hope so.

Yeah, I hope that continues.

I- I enjoy it still, you know.

- Yes.

And that's why you are in the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame.

We- we thank you for your songs.

And- and today, we thank you for our time- your time.

I appreciate it.

- Thank you for your time.

I appreciate seeing you.

And, uh, yeah, it's a- it's a wonderful thing.

Honor to be, uh, inducted in the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame.

Because, uh, it's something I always wanted to do is to try to be a songwriter, and, uh, and in the process you listen to so many of songwriters.

- Yeah.

- And, I appreciate the craft you know, the others- - Well, you made it.

[laughter] -Thank you Spooner.

[gentle guitar music] [gentle guitar music] For more information about the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame please visit nashvillesongwriters foundation.com