>> CATHY: OVER THE NEXT HOUR WE'’LL FIND OUT HOW WILDFIRES IN CANADA CAN AFFECT US HERE IN MINNESOTA, KAOMI LEE SHOWS US WHAT IS BEING DONE TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF FARMER SUICIDES, AND ESSAYIST TANE DANGER HAS BEEN LEARNING ABOUT HOW WE PERCEIVE COLORS.

>> ERIC: BUT, FIRST, AN UPDATE ON THE EFFORT TO CONTROL THE COST OF RENTING AN APARTMENT IN ST. PAUL.

THE RENT STABILIZATION ORDINANCE, WHICH VOTERS APPROVED IN 2021, WAS DESIGNED TO LIMIT RENT INCREASES TO 3% UNLESS THE LANDLORD WAS GRANTED AN EXEMPTION.

BUT A LOT OF EXEMPTIONS HAVE BEEN MADE SINCE THE ORDINANCE WENT INTO EFFECT LAST YEAR.

THE CITY ESTIMATES THAT ABOUT 1/3 OF ST. PAUL RENTAL PROPERTIES ARE EXEMPT FROM RENT CONTROL.

FREDERICK MELO HAS BEEN COVERING THIS STORY FOR THE ST. PAUL "PIONEER PRESS" AND HE JOINS US NOW.

IS THIS ORDINANCE HAS BEEN REDUCED TO KIND OF SWISS CHEESE?

>> YOU KNOW, I TALKED TO THE CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT AND SHE WAS A BIG VOICE FOR GETTING SOME OF THESE EXEMPTIONS.

SHE SAID, HIS ORDINANCE IS WHAT PEOPLE THOUGHT THEY WERE VOTING ON IN NOVEMBER 2021.

IN HER VIEW, SHE'S MADE IT -- SHE AND THE REST OF THE COUNCIL HAVE MADE THE ORDINANCE A LITTLE BIT MORE LIKE WHAT YOU SEE IN NEW YORK OR WHAT YOU SEE IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS.

THAT WE HAVE THE STRICTEST RENT CONTROL, 3% CAP, NO EXEMPTIONS FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, NO EXEMPTIONS FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

OTHER CITIES DO HAVE THOSE EXEMPTIONS AND NOW WE DO TOO.

SO IN HER MIND, IT'S NOT SWISS CHEESE, IT'S BACK TO NORMAL.

>> Eric: TELL US ABOUT THE BALANCING OF THE VOTERS' WISHES VERSUS MAYBE REAL LIFE IN THE RENTAL MARKET, PLEASE.

>> SURE, YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S GOING TO BE THE ARGUMENT THAT'S GOING TO BE CARRIED FORWARD, ESPECIALLY AFTER THE NOVEMBER ELECTIONS, I THINK FOUR OF OUR SEVEN CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE NOT RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION.

SO THAT'S GOING TO BE THE DISCUSSION, IS, YOU KNOW, VOTERS APPROVED A 3% CAP.

I TALKED TO A WOMAN WHO IS IN HER 80s, SHE GOT A 6%, ACTUALLY AN 8% RENT INCREASE, SHE'S GOING, WHAT WAS THE POINT OF A 3% CAP IF I'M IN MY 80s, I'M IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AND EVEN I'M NOT PROTECTED FULLY?

A LOT OF LANDLORDS ARE COMING FORWARD AND SAYING THERE'S NOW A VACANCY DECONTROL, WHICH IS A FANCY WAY OF AYING, IF AN APARTMENT'S EMPTY, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE MOVED OUT, THEY BOUGHT A HOUSE, FOR WHATEVER REASON LEFT, YOU CAN ACTUALLY GO AND INCREASE THE RENT BY INFLATION PLUS 8%.

YOU DO THE MATH.

7% INFLATION, 8%, THAT'S A 15% INCREASE.

>> Eric: YEAH.

>> SO YOU'RE SEEING DOZENS, ABOUT 90 LANDLORDS A MONTH COMING FORWARD SAYING, MY UNIT'S EMPTY, GIVE ME 15% INCREASE.

THAT'S NOT 3%.

THAT'S NOT WHAT THE VOTERS APPROVED.

>> Eric: O.

>> Cathy: WHAT HAPPENED TO THE POOR ELDERLY WOMAN?

WHAT HAPPENED IN HER CASE?

THAT'S A HEFTY RENT HIKE.

>> SO WHAT SHE AID IS, YOU KNOW, SOCIAL SECURITY INCREASED, AND THERE GOES MY SOCIAL SECURITY INCREASE.

BASICALLY SHE'S ABLE TO STAY IN HER APARTMENT, THANK GOODNESS, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH.

THE CITY COUNCIL EXEMPTED AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THEY EXEMPTED NEW CONSTRUCTION, AND THE LOOK-BACK PERIOD WAS 20 YEARS.

IF YOU WERE BUILT 12 YEARS AGO, YOU'RE EXEMPT FROM RENT CONTROL.

>> Eric: ON THE OTHER HAND, THIS HAS SURVIVED A COURT CHALLENGE.

>> OH, YEAH.

YEAH.

THERE WAS A COURT CASE, TWO LANDLORDS CAME FORWARD, ONE DOWNTOWN, ONE IN HIGHLAND PARK, SAID, THIS IS AN ILLEGAL TAKING, AND SOME CONSTITUTIONAL -- -- IT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL, THE JUDGE SAID, LOOK, WE'VE HEARD THESE ARGUMENTS LITERALLY FOR 100 YEARS, THEY ROLLED OUT THESE RENT CONTROLS SINCE WORLD WAR I, THEY'VE BEEN AROUND SINCE THE 1920s, GOVERNMENT HAS THE RIGHT TO REGULATE HOUSING.

SOMETHING GOVERNMENT'S ALWAYS DONE.

>> Cathy: IT SOUNDS LIKE DEVELOPERS AND LANDLORDS KIND OF WON.

>> YOU NOW, THAT'S FUNNY, BECAUSE DEVELOPERS WILL SAY THE OPPOSITE.

THEY DIDN'T WANT A 20-YEAR EXEMPTION, THEY WANTED A 30-YEAR EXEMPTION.

AND THERE'S ONE PARTICULAR DEVELOPER, WE'DNER HOMES, THAT WAS GOING TO BUILD SOMETHING LIKE 13 APARTMENT BUILDINGS AT THE OLD FORD SITE, HIGHLAND BRIDGE.

THEY WON'T RETURN CALLS.

I HAVEN'T TALKED TO THEM IN OVER A YEAR.

THEY'RE BUILDING NOTHING AFTER THE INITIAL CONSTRUCTION.

THEY HAD LUND'S GROCERY, APARTMENTS CONNECTED TO THAT.

VERY NICE.

NOWHERE TO BE FOUND SINCE THEN.

>> Eric: AS YOU MENTION, THE CITY COUNCIL IS UP FOR RE-ELECTION AND THERE'S GOING TO BE FOUR NEW EOPLE.

>> YES.

>> Eric: IS THIS INSINUATING ITSELF INTO OLITICS IN THE COUNCIL RACES?

>> I THINK IT WILL.

YEAH, THE FOUR PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT RUNNING WERE THE FOUR WHO WERE MOST VOCAL AGAINST RENT CONTROL.

MAYBE THEY DODGED A BULLET THERE, E'LL NEVER KNOW, IN TERMS OF WHO WILL RUN AGAINST THEM, WHO WILL SAY, HEY, YOU'RE ON THE WRONG SIDE.

BUT CERTAINLY, THERE'S NO POLITICAL PRIMARY.

SO, ON NOVEMBER, YOU KNOW, THE FILINGS ARE IN AUGUST, THEY CLOSE AUGUST 15th, SO IN NOVEMBER, WE'LL SEE RANK-CHOICE ELECTION WITH SOME PRETTY LOUD VOICES FOR ND AGAINST FURTHER CHANGES.

>> Eric: St. PAUL IS A RENTER AJORITY TOWN, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, JUST ABOUT.

IT'S IN THAT 50-50 MARK.

YEAH, IT'S GOING TO BE GIG BIG.

>> Cathy: GOING BACK TO THE DEVELOPERS FOR JUST A MOMENT, YOU MENTIONED THE ONE DEVELOPER WHO HASN'T BUILT ANYTHING IN THE HIGHLAND PARK ENABLED.

DO YOU KNOW WHETHER NEW BUILDING PERMITS ARE UP OR DOWN BECAUSE OF THIS?

>> I LOOKED AT A LOT OF HUD DATA, GOING FROM, I THINK IT WAS MARCH '22 TO MARCH '23, THE PERMITS I SAW WERE DOWN 48%.

SO WE HAD A BIG PLUMMET.

SOME OF THAT MAY JUST BE, WHAT IS THIS, THIS IS BRAND-NEW, HOW DO WE GET AN EXEMPTION, A LOT OF THOSE RULES WEREN'T FEELING VERY SOLID AND THEN THE CITY COUNCIL IN SEPTEMBER KIND OF CRAFTED SOME OF THESE EXEMPTIONS FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION.

THEY DIDN'T TAKE EFFECT UNTIL JANUARY 1.

SO SOME OF THAT MAY HAVE BEEN SOME INITIAL NERVOUSNESS, WHAT'S GOING ON IN St. PAUL?

ANECDOTALLY, IF YOU JUST DRIVE DOWN THE STREET IN St. PAUL, YOU DON'T SEE A LOT OF CRANES RIGHT NOW.

IS THAT RENT CONTROL?

IS THAT THE ECONOMY?

IS THAT INFLATION?

IS THAT LABOR SHORTAGE, SUPPLIES?

SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS?

WE'LL SEE.