FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION AND VIEWERS LIKE.

Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS ALBUQUERQUE NEIGHBORHOODS JUGGLE WITH THE DECISION WHETHER OR NOT TO SUPPORT A PUBLICLY-FUNDED DOWNTOWN STADIUM FOR NEW MEXICO UNITED.

WE ARE ALREADY EXTREMELY SPECIAL AND WE NEED TO PRESERVE ALL THE THINGS THAT MAKE US SPECIAL.

Gene: PLUS THE STATE'S NEW REDISTRICTING PROCESS SHIFTS FROM THE CITY TO STATE LAWMAKERS.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST GENE GRANT.

COVID-19 JUST WON'T STAY OUT OF THE HEADLINES BUT IT IS THE FINANCIAL RESPONSE TO THE PANDEMIC THAT IS CAUSING CONCERN AT THE CAPITOL.

A NEW MEXICO AUTHOR HAS A UNIQUE APPROACH TO HANDLING CLIMATE CHANGE.

OUR LAURA PASKUS TALKS TO BILL DEBUYS ABOUT WHAT HE CALLS EARTH CARE.

AND HOW IT COULD SHIFT THE WAY WE THINK ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL ACTION.

BUT WE BEGIN WITH NEW DEVELOPMENTS IN THE STATE'S BRAND NEW REDISTRICTING PROCESS.

CITIZEN COMMITTEE NOW APPROVED ITS LIST OF COMPOSED ELECTION MAPS FOR LAWMAKERS TO WEIGH IN ON LATER THIS YEAR.

OTHERS ARE TRYING TO TAKE IT ALL IN AND IDENTIFY THEIR FAVORITES AS WELL.

HERE IS CORRESPONDENT GWYNETH DOLAND WITH MORE.

Gwyneth: MY GUESTS TODAY ARE MASON GRAHAM OF THE BLACK VOTERS COLLABORATIVE AND KEEGAN KING OF THE ALL PUEBLO COUNCIL OF GOVERNORS REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

Graham: THANK YOU.

King: THANKS FOR HAVING US.

Gwyneth: KEEGAN, I AM GOING TO START WITH YOU.

YOU KNOW THE NEW MEXICO 19 PUEBLOS PLUS THE JICARILLA APACHE NATION AGREED TO THE MAPS THAT YOU SUBMITTED TO THE COMMITTEE.

BUT THE NAVAJO NATION SUBMITTED SOME DIFFERENT PLANS AND, YOU KNOW, THE NAVAJO NATION INCLUDES SLIGHTLY MORE PEOPLE.

HOW ARE SOME OF THE PLANS DIFFERENT?

HOW ARE THESE DIFFERENT?

King: YEAH, THANKS.

THE PLANS THE NAVAJO NATION AND FROM THE PUEBLOS AND JICARILLA APACHE NATION ARE REMARKABLY SIMILAR.

BOTH COALITIONS HAVE PUT FORTH HOUSE AND SENATE PLANS AND THEY ARE VERY SIMILAR.

ON THE SENATE SIDE, THE NAVAJO NATION ALL OF THE PUEBLOS, THE APACHE NATIONS, WERE ABLE TO COME TO SOME AGREEMENT AROUND A SENATE PLAN.

ON THE HOUSE SIDE, THOSE DISCUSSIONS ARE STILL ONGOING BUT IT IS A PRETTY HISTORIC OCCASION WHEN YOU CONSIDER THAT 23 TRIBAL NATIONS HAVE WEIGHED IN AND ARE SUPPORTING A PLAN THAT REDRAWS BOUNDARIES FOR THESE POLITICAL DISTRICTS REDRAWS THEM IN A WAY THAT ALIGNS WITH THE VALUES OF OUR TRIBAL COMMUNITIES.

SO, WHILE WE DIDN'T GET THE HOUSE MAP AGREED TO YET AND THERE ISN'T CONSENSUS YET, WE DO HAVE A PRETTY GOOD TRACK RECORD SO FAR WITH THE SENATE PLAN.

Gwyneth: HELP ME UNDERSTAND HOW DIFFERENT THIS PROCESS IS FROM THE WAY IT WAS 10 YEARS AGO.

King: MY UNDERSTANDING IS FROM 2011, THIS PROCESS WAS NEARLY ENTIRELY DONE IN THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION, IN A SPECIAL SESSION, AND IT WAS DONE WITH LEGISLATORS AND RESEARCH AND POLLING, WITH A LOT LESS PUBLIC INPUT.

AND SO THIS TIME AROUND, WE HAVE HAD A NUMBER OF CRC MEETINGS ACROSS THE STATE.

WE HAVE HAD TRIBAL COMMUNITIES WEIGH IN, TRIBAL LEADERS WORKING WITH INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES, COMMUNITY GROUPS WORKING ACROSS THE STATE.

SO, IT HAS REALLY ALLOWED THE PUBLIC TO WEIGH IN IN A WAY THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO BEFORE AND THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT WITH DISTRICTOR WHICH IS A NEW ONLINE PLATFORM THAT ALLOWS ANYONE TO DRAW MAPS, EVEN FROM THEIR PHONE.

Gwyneth: THAT IS PRETTY COOL.

I MEAN, MASON, YOU ARE DOING THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER AND YOUR GROUP SUBMITTED SOME MAPS FOR THE HOUSE DISTRICTS, IN PARTICULAR.

HOW HAS THIS EXPERIENCE BEEN FOR YOU AND THE MEMBERS OF ALL THE DIFFERENT GROUPS THAT COME TOGETHER FOR THE COLLABORATIVE?

Graham: THIS EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN REALLY EYE OPENING AND CHALLENGING BECAUSE THE PROCESS BEFORE WAS TYPICALLY BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF NEW MEXICO'S TRI-CULTURAL NARRATIVE THAT HISTORICALLY EXCLUDES AFRICAN AMERICAN POPULATIONS.

IT WAS KIND OF DIFFICULT FOR US TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHERE TO START.

LUCKILY WE KNEW SOME GREAT ORGANIZATIONS THAT WERE ALREADY DOING THE WORK THAT WERE ABLE TO FILL US IN ON HOW REDISTRICTING WAS GOING TO WORK THIS TIME AROUND FOR THE CITIZENS REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE AND THEN THE OTHER PART OF IT WAS GETTING THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY TO BE INVOLVED.

TYPICALLY, WE ARE NOT THAT INVOLVED IN MATTERS WHEN IT COMES TO GOVERNMENT, WHEN IT COMES TO THE LEGISLATURE BECAUSE A LOT OF THE CONVERSATIONS THAT ARE BEING HAD THERE DON'T NORMALLY INCLUDE US.

SO, IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO MAKE SURE WE DID HAVE A VOICE IN THIS PROCESS TO LET THEM KNOW THAT WE WANT TO BE INCLUDED ESPECIALLY ON SOMETHING AS IMPORTANT AS REDISTRICTING THAT CAN AFFECT HOW OUR RESIDENTS ARE REPRESENTED FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS.

Gwyneth: ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE BEEN HEARING ABOUT DURING THIS PROCESS IS COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST.

AND IN SOME WAYS IT IS EASY TO SEE THAT WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A PUEBLO.

IT HAS A VERY DISCREET BORDER AND A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE THERE AND THE SAME GROUP SPEAKING HISTORICALLY THE SAME LANGUAGE, HAVE A SHARED HISTORY AND CULTURE BUT FOR NEW MEXICO'S BLACK AND AFRICAN AMERICAN RESIDENTS THIS IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE FOR YOU?

Graham: SO WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE FOR THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY IN NEW MEXICO ISN'T TIED TO ANY ONE GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION.

IT IS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO IDENTIFY EXACTLY WHERE THOSE PEOPLE ARE AND WHAT KIND OF POWER THEY HAVE IN A PARTICULAR DISTRICT.

IF YOU GO TO NEW YORK, YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE GOING TO FIND AFRICAN AMERICANS IN THE BRONX.

IF YOU GO TO CHICAGO YOU'RE GOING TO FIND AFRICAN AMERICANS ON THE SOUTH SIDE.

BUT HERE IN NEW MEXICO, BECAUSE WE DO HAVE SMALLER POPULATIONS THAT RESIDE IN JUST A FEW AREAS OF THE STATE, THERE ISN'T REALLY AN OPPORTUNITY FOR LARGE IMPACT BUT IN THOSE AREAS WHERE THEY DO RESIDE, WE CAN MAKE SURE THEY ARE REPRESENTED EQUALLY AND ACCURATELY.

THAT WAS OUR BIGGEST CHALLENGE.

Gwyneth: YOU SAID YOU HAVEN'T BEEN A PART OF THIS, HISTORICALLY YOU HAVEN'T BEEN CONSULTED AND THIS IS YOUR FIRST TIME DIGGING INTO IT, SOMETHING THAT ONLY COMES AROUND EVERY 10 YEARS IS PRETTY HARD TO TRACK BUT HOW DID YOU THINK THE COMMITTEE TOOK YOUR SUGGESTIONS?

DO YOU FEEL LIKE THEY TOOK YOUR INPUT INTO CONSIDERATION DID THEY INCLUDE IT?

Graham: ABSOLUTELY.

SO, I THINK THE COMMITTEE, FIRST OF ALL, WAS AN AMAZING GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT WERE ALL REALLY DEDICATED TO MAKING SURE THAT ALL ETHNICITIES, ALL MARGINALIZED GROUPS WERE REPRESENTED FAIRLY.

THE CHIEF JUSTICE EDWARD CHAVEZ AND I HAD SOME CONVERSATIONS AND HE WAS VERY INVOLVED IN MAKING SURE WE WERE SUBMITTING MAPS IN THE RIGHT WAY THAT WE WERE MAKING COMMENTS AND PROPOSALS THE RIGHT WAY.

AND WE GOT SOME GREAT RECOMMENDATIONS ON EXACTLY WHERE WE CAN FOCUS OUR EFFORTS TO HAVE THE BIGGEST IMPACT.

BECAUSE WE ARE ONE OF A FEW STATES THAT HAVE AN INDEPENDENT CITIZENS REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE, THIS WAS REALLY A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO MAKE SURE THAT THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY DID GET INVOLVED AND I THINK THE CITIZENS REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE MEMBERS DID AN EXCELLENT JOB OF HEARING OUR REQUESTS.

AND WHEN WE WERE ABLE TO WORK WITH OTHER ORGANIZATIONS AS WELL, THEY WERE CONSTANTLY COMING BACK TO US BASED OFF PROPOSALS THAT WE MADE AND ASKING IF THIS WAS IN LINE WITH SOME OF OUR RECOMMENDATIONS AND IT WAS REALLY BIGGER THAN JUST THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WERE COMING FROM THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY AND IT WAS KIND OF LIKE THE BIGGER NEW MEXICO ETHNIC COMMUNITY COMING TOGETHER TO SEE THIS THROUGH.

Gwyneth: KEEGAN, I TALKED TO THE VICE CHAIR OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY RECENTLY AND I ASKED HIM, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A BUNCH OF THESE GROUPS THAT WE THINK OF AS CONSTITUENT PARTS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WHO HAVE BEEN GIVING INFORMATION TO THE COMMITTEE AND TESTIFYING AND THEY HAVE BEEN SUBMITTING MAPS.

I SAID I AM LOOKING FOR THE REPUBLICAN GROUPS THAT ARE DOING THE SAME.

HE SAID THEY DON'T EXIST.

NOW THE COMMITTEE SAID THEY HAVE RECEIVED A LOT OF INPUT FROM PEOPLE WHO IDENTIFY AS REPUBLICANS AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS BEEN QUITE VOCAL, CHAIRMAN PEARCE CALLED ONE OF THE MAPS THE EGOLF MOVIDA.

THAT SOME OF THE MAPS THAT HAVE BEEN PUT FORWARD ARE JUST DESIGNED TO ENSURE THE DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY FROM HERE TO ETERNITY.

IT IS TRUE, THOUGH, THAT A LOT OF THESE GROUPS DO REPRESENT VOTERS WHO LEAN DEMOCRAT.

IS THIS A STRATEGIC MOVE ON YOUR PART?

KING: IT IS INTERESTING, I THINK A LOT OF THE VOICES THAT HAVE BEEN HEARD AT THE CRC MEETINGS ARE COMING FROM BIPOC COMMUNITIES AND BIPOC LED ORGANIZATIONS.

AND THOSE ORGANIZATIONS ARE GOING OUT THERE AND TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS A COMMUNITY OF INTEREST.

WHAT DOES MY COMMUNITY LOOK LIKE AND WHAT ARE THE OTHER COMMUNITIES?

WHAT ARE MY NEIGHBORS LOOKING LIKE?

HOW DO WE NATURALLY ORGANIZE OURSELVES?

SO A LOT OF TIMES YOU WERE SEEING INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY WERE STANDING SIDE-BY-SIDE THROUGH GENERATIONS OF HISTORY WITH LAND GRANTS, HISPANIC COMMUNITIES THAT THEY DON'T SHARE THE SAME LANGUAGE OR THE SAME HISTORY, BUT THEY SHARE A COMMON LIVED EXPERIENCE, COMMON WORK, THE USE OF ACEQUIAS, THE USE OF THE SAME LAND USES.

I THINK WE WERE IDENTIFYING THOSE COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST AND THEN DRAWING MAPS THAT REFLECT THAT.

I THINK TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CHAIR'S POINT, I THINK A LOT OF TIMES IT CAME DOWN TO WHO IS COMING OUT TO THE MEETING AND WHAT ARE SOME OF THE DISTRICTS THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT, WHAT ARE THE PLACES THEY WANT TO PROTECT.

FOR THE TRIBE'S COMMUNITY OF INTEREST, NOT ONLY WAS LANGUAGE AND LIFE-STYLE AND HISTORY AND THE RESERVATION BOUNDARIES, BUT IN SOME CASES IT WAS SACRED SITES.

SO, FOR A LOT OF PUEBLOS THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT CHACO CANYON AS A COMMUNITY OF INTEREST.

THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT SACRED SITES AND MAKING MAPS THAT REFLECTED THAT.

AND I THINK THAT MAY BE ONE OF THE REASONS THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, WELL, THIS IS MORE LIBERAL VERSUS CONSERVATIVE BUT IT REALLY ISN'T.

I THINK IT REFLECTS THE COMMUNITY COMING OUT TO SPEAK.

Gwyneth: KEEGAN WE JUST HAVE A FEW SECONDS LEFT HERE.

THE LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO MEET IN DECEMBER TO TAKE UP THESE PROPOSALS.

THEY GET THE FINAL SAY.

ARE YOUR GROUPS GOING TO BE THERE TO TRY AND INFLUENCE THEIR DECISIONS?

King: YES, ABSOLUTELY.

TRIBAL LEADERSHIP COMMUNITIES WILL BE THERE AT THE SPECIAL SESSION TO CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE FOR FAIR MAPS IN OR STATE TO ENSURE THAT THEY REFLECT WISHES OF INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES AND THAT OR COMMUNITIES CAN ELECT THE CANDIDATE OF THEIR CHOICE.

Gwyneth: MASON, ARE YOU GOING TO MOBILIZE YOUR FOLKS TO GET INVOLVED IN THE KIND OF MESSY PROCESS AS IT GOES THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE.

Graham: ABSOLUTELY.

I TOLD KEEGAN WILL DEFINITELY BE THERE TO SEE IT THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE AND HOPEFULLY HAVE AN INTERACTION WITH THIS PROCESS FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS.

Gwyneth: AND AS WE SAY, THAT KIND OF INTERACTION IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE PAST.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING WITH US TODAY.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

Gene: WE WELCOME IN OUR LINE OPINION PANEL NOW TO CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION ON THE CITIZENS REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE'S WORK ON THESE MAP PROPOSALS.

WITH ME ON OUR VIRTUAL ROUND TABLE THIS WEEK IS LINE REGULAR AND FORMER HOUSE MINORITY WHIP DANIEL FOLEY.

ALSO LINE REGULAR AND A FORMER LAWMAKER, ALBEIT IN THE SENATE, DEDE FELDMAN IS BACK WHAT US AS WELL.

AND SERGE MARTINEZ OF THE UNM LAW SCHOOL.

DANIEL, LET ME START WITH YOU.

THE COMMITTEE SPENT WEEKS WORKING ON MAPS, GATHERING PUBLIC INPUT.

THEY HAD A LOT TO CONSIDER IN THAT PROCESS.

I AM CURIOUS, OVERALL, HOW DO YOU THINK THEY DID WITH SOME OF THE MAPS THEY WILL PRESENT TO LAW MAKERS SOME TIME IN DECEMBER.

WHAT IS YOUR OVERALL TAKE ON THIS?

Dan: I THINK AS BEN LUJAN USED TO SAY, ARGUING WITH ME WAS AN EXERCISE IN FUTILITY.

I THINK WATCHING THIS COMMITTEE MEET IS AN EXERCISE IN FUTILITY.

THE LEGISLATORS ARE GOING TO DO WHAT THE LEGISLATORS ALWAYS DO WHICH IS ALWAYS, NO.

1, PROTECT THEMSELVES.

ALWAYS 100%.

I AM ALWAYS SKEPTICAL WHEN A MAP COMES OUT AND YOU SEE PEOPLE LIKE MICHAEL SANCHEZ WHO I THINK IS VERY GOOD AT REDISTRICTING.

HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING.

HE IS VERY GOOD.

WHEN HE IS OVERJOYED ABOUT THE DESIGN OF A MAP, IT WOULD BE JUST AS QUESTIONABLE AS ME BEING OVERJOYED ABOUT THE DESIGN OF A MAP.

WE ARE NOT CITIZENS THAT DON'T HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THE OUTCOME OF IT.

Gene: HOW DOES THAT GET BALANCED, DANIEL.

I MEAN WE KNOW THAT LEGISLATORS COULD IGNORE THIS COMPLETELY BUT THIS HAS BEEN A FAIRLY PUBLIC PROCESS.

PUBLIC IS KIND OF UP ON THIS.

YOU REALLY THINK THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN THIS TIME AROUND?

Dan: 100%.

THERE WILL BE SNIPPETS THAT THEY TAKE OUT OF IT.

BUT NOW WHEN I SAY THAT, I WILLS SAY THAT WITH HESITANCY BECAUSE THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN THREE OR FOUR DECADES THERE HASN'T BEEN A SPLIT IN REDISTRICTING BETWEEN THE EXECUTIVE AND THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.

THAT SORT OF ACTED AS A BALANCE TO SOME EXTENT, RIGHT?

REGARDLESS OF WHICH PARTY IS IN CHARGE, TEXAS ALL THE REPUBLICANS IN CHARGE, NEW MEXICO ALL THE DEMOCRATS ARE IN CHARGE, CLEARLY YOU'RE GOING TO SEE AN AGENDA ADVANCED BY WHOEVER HAS UNFETTERED ACCESS TO GETTING THEIR AGENDA PASSED.

I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED.

YOU ALWAYS HAVE THE FLY IN THE OINTMENT RIGHT?

YOU GOT STATE SENATOR CANDELARIA, WHO IS SAYING HE IS RETIRING AND, INTERESTING, CALLING THE MAP PEOPLE AS A BUNCH OF ELITISTS.

HE IS KIND OF AS PROGRESSIVE AS THEY COME, ON THE PROGRESSIVE SIDE, RIGHT, YOU KNOW, NORMALLY THIS BICKERING STARTS AND ALWAYS SOMEBODY YOU CAN SAY, WELL, TIM JENNINGS IS A CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRAT.

THERE IS NOBODY THAT CLAIMS JACOB CANDELARIA IS A CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRAT.

SO IT IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING.

I THINK THEY WILL GET WHAT THEY WANT, CLOSE TO WHAT THEY WANT OUT OF THIS COMMITTEE AND THEN, MORE, IMPORTANTLY, I THINK THE MAJORITY OF THAT WILL BE DONE BEHIND THE SCENES AND WILL DEFINITELY FAVOR THE PARTY IN CHARGE, AS IT SHOULD, BECAUSE ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES AND THEY ARE IN CHARGE.

REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO BE IN THE MINORITY FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS.

Gene: I HAVE TO SWITCH TO SOMEBODY REAL QUICK.

DEDE, INTERESTING THE U.S. CONGRESSIONAL MAPS ARE LARGELY INTACT.

ANOTHER ONE EMPHASIZING INCREASING HISPANIC REPRESENTATION IN CD3 AND I WONDER IF YOU THINK THAT WAS A PRUDENT APPROACH OR DOES THAT RANGE OF OPTIONS GIVE LAWMAKERS, AS DAN WAS SAYING, CARTE BLANCH TO MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS HERE.

Dede: WELL, ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISIONS THAT THE CITIZENS REDISTRICTING COMMISSION MADE IS THAT THEY WERE GOING TO PRESENT THREE MAPS FOR EACH OF THE RACES THAT THEY WERE REDISTRICTING SO THAT GIVES THE LEGISLATURE SOME LEEWAY AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN A NEW PROCESS AND I HAVE WATCHED THEM, ESPECIALLY THE LAST TWO DETERMINATIVE MEETINGS AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE VOICES OF THE PARTICIPANTS THERE HAS BEEN MORE PUBLIC PARTICIPATION THAN EVER BEFORE.

THEY HAVE HAD OVER 1000 PEOPLE GIVE INPUT, SOME OF THEM DREW MAPS THEMSELVES.

IT WAS QUITE EVIDENT TO ME THAT THIS COMMISSION MADE A BIG EFFORT TO ACCOMMODATE PUBLIC INPUT IN THE MAPS THEMSELVES.

TO LISTEN IN THIS MAJORITY MINORITY IT STATE, TO THE VOICES ESPECIALLY OF NATIVE AMERICANS AND NAVAJOS, SO THERE WOULD BE FEWER VOTING RIGHTS QUESTIONS WET MAP AS IT EVENTUALLY WILL, WILL BE CONTESTED AND THROWN INTO COURT.

SO, I THINK THAT HAS BEEN REALLY APPARENT.

Gene: INTERESTING SLOUGH.

I HAVE SOME MORE STUFF 4 HERE IN A SECOND.

OF THE THREE MAP CONGRESSIONAL MAP CHOICES I AM LOOK AT HER.

CONCEPT A, E AND H. CONCEPT E IS THE ONE THAT WOULD MAKE ALBUQUERQUE SOUTH VALLEY IN THE STATE'S SOUTHERN DISTRICT GROUPING IT WITH A DISTRICT DOWN SOUTH.

IT IS A FASCINATING IDEA AND IT WORKS OUT WELL IN THE POPULATION BALANCES AS YOU SEE IT ON THE MAPS BUT IT IS INTERESTING.

HOW WOULD THAT ACTUALLY FUNCTION HAVING THAT DISTRICT PULL UP ALMOST TO FIVE POINTS?

IN ALBUQUERQUE.

CAN YOU SEE THAT WORKING?

Serge: THIS HUGE STATES WITH HUGE DISTRICT, THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE HUGE, YOU KNOW, DISTANCES BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL IN THE SAME CONSTITUENCY.

JUST ABOUT ANY DRAWING IS GOING TO HAVE THAT, ANY REDISTRICTS IS GOING TO HAVE THAT BY NECESSITY.

I DO THINK I HAVE HEARD SINCE I HAVE LIVED HERE THE PEOPLE OF THE SOUTH OF VALLEY SAYING, WE FEEL IGNORED BY THE REST OF US, BY ALBUQUERQUE.

WE FEEL THAT ARE INTERESTS AREN'T HEARD, THAT IT IS SOMEHOW FUNCTIONALLY DIFFERENT THAN ALBUQUERQUE.

Gene: LET ME ASK YOU THIS.

I MEAN, FEELING LEFT OUT IS ONE THING AND ONE WAY NOT TO SOLVE THAT IS BE IN A DISTRICT WHERE THE CENTER OF GRAVITY IS AROUND LAS CRUCES.

Dan: ROSWELL, CARLSBAD.

Gene: RIGHT.

IF SOUTH VALLEY FEELS DISCONNECTED NOW, HOW WOULD -- ANYWAY.

KEEP GOING, MY FAULT.

I DIDN'T MEAN TO CUT YOU OFF.

Serge: YOUR HIGHLIGHTING ONE OF THE REALLY CENTRAL ISSUES.

IT IS LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO NOT DIVIDE UP COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST BUT THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS TO SLICE THAT AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS EVERY SINGLE PERSON IS GOING TO HAVE THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION OF THAT RIGHT.

DANIEL TALKING ABOUT JACOB CANDELARIA, HE WAS QUOTED AS SAYING, LOOK, I HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA ABOUT WHAT THE COMMUNITY OF INTERESTS ARE.

GUESS WHAT, SO DOES EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE LEGISLATURE, EVERY PERSON WALKING DOWN THE STREET.

SO, THIS IS AN IMPOSSIBLE TASK EVEN TO MAKE TWO PEOPLE HAPPY ABOUT THIS, LET ALONE EVERYBODY.

I THINK IT IS A MISTAKE TO CUT OFF THE SOUTH VALLEY IN ALBUQUERQUE.

I THINK THEY ARE MORE IN TOUCH WITH ALBUQUERQUE THAN THE REST OF THE STATE.

I THINK THE IDEA THAT JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN DOING SOMETHING ONE WAY IN THE PAST DOESN'T MEAN IT IS THE WAY WE SHOULD KEEP DOING IT.

Gene: FAIR ENOUGH.

Serge: INNOVATION WAS APPLIED TO SOME OF THIS REDISTRICTING.

Gene: SENATOR YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE SOUTH VALLEY LEAVING THE ALBUQUERQUE METRO AND BEING REPRESENTED BY CD2.

Dede: IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW YOU DEFINE COMMUNITY OF INTEREST.

THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT WAYS TO DEFINE THAT.

YOU CAN DEFINE THAT AS AGRICULTURAL COMMUNITY OF INTEREST, A CULTURAL COMMUNITY OF INTEREST, ETHNIC COMMUNITY OF INTEREST.

AND THIS IDEA OF INCLUDING THE AGRICULTURAL SOUTH VALLEY OF ALBUQUERQUE IN A SOUTHERN DISTRICT IS NOT NEW.

IT HAS COME UP TWICE BEFORE IN 2010 AND IN 2000 OF UNITING THAT WITH THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT TO CREATE A MAJORITY HISPANIC DISTRICT THAT WOULD IS A MORE RURAL AGRICULTURAL FEEL.

I DON'T THINK ROSWELL IS ACTUALLY IN THAT DISTRICT, DAN, I THINK -- THIS IS ANOTHER PROBLEM, REALLY, THAT ROSWELL IS ACTUALLY CONNECTED WITH THE REST OF ALBUQUERQUE IN THAT PARTICULAR MAP.

SO, IT IS HOW YOU DEFINE COMMUNITY OF INTEREST AND THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON THAT.

Gene: THERE WAS, ABSOLUTELY.

DAN, QUICKLY LAST QUESTION.

I THINK I KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING ON THIS ONE.

ARE WE HEADED BACK TO THE COURTS?

WILL ALL THIS DO AS LAW MAKERS GO ROGUE HERE AS YOU'RE SUGGESTING AND THE FOLLOW-UP, IF THAT DOES HAPPEN, WON'T THE JUDGE JUST REFER BACK TO THE COMMITTEE'S MAP.

Dan: THE PROBLEM YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THERE WILL DEFINITELY BE A LAWSUIT NO MATTER WHAT, BECAUSE, AS SERGE SAID, YOU CAN HAVE TWO PEOPLE IN A ROOM AND ONE IS NOT GOING TO BE HAPPY.

SO, SOMEONE IS GOING TO WIND UP GOING TO COURT.

WHAT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IS IN THE PAST, THE LAWSUITS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN STARTED BY EITHER EXECUTIVE AGAINST THE LEGISLATIVE OR LEGISLATIVE AGAINST EXECUTIVE.

PEOPLE THAT HAVE AN IMPACT IN WRITING THE LAW.

NOW, I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A BATTLE BETWEEN WHO HAS STANDING TO BRING A CHALLENGE FROM OUTSIDE BECAUSE NORMALLY IN THE PAST IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A GROUP OF LEGISLATORS SUING SOMEBODY, THEY GET JOINED BY SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS.

I THINK YOU MAY WIND UP SEEING, YOU KNOW, YOU MAY WIND UP SEEING THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR ON THE SAME PAGE BUT OUTSIDE SPECIAL INTERESTS ANGRY AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO BRING THAT CASE AND SOMEBODY TO REPRESENT IT.

AND ARGUE IT.

THAT I THINK WILL BE INTERESTING DISCUSSION FOR THE COURTS TO HAVE.

Gene: GOOD STUFF.

INTERESTING LAST POINT THERE.

THAT WILL DO IT FOR REDISTRICTING FOR NOW.

STILL AHEAD ON THE LINE THE CHORUS GROWS GROSS LOUDER FROM THOSE CRITICIZING THE GOVERNOR.

FOR HOW SHE HAS HANDLED SPENDING OF FEDERAL COVID-19 RELIEF FUNDS.

ON NOVEMBER 2, VOTERS IN ALBUQUERQUE WILL DECIDE ON A 50 MILLION PROPOSAL TO PARTIALLY FUND A NEW STADIUM FOR INCREASINGLY POPULAR NEW MEXICO UNITED SOCCER TEAM.

DESPITE THAT POPULARITY THE STADIUM HAS BECOME A POLARIZING ISSUE.

MUCH OF THAT HAS TO DO NOT WITH THE ECONOMIC IMPACT BUT THE POSSIBLE LOCATION.

THE CITY COMMISSIONED A FEASIBILITY REPORT WHICH IDENTIFIED TWO PREFERRED LOCATIONS ON EITHER SIDE OF THE DOWNTOWN RAIL YARD.

ONE IS SOUTH BROADWAY NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WOULD STRETCH FROM THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF COAL AND BROADWAY, WEST TO THE RAILROAD TRACK AND SOUTH TO SANTA FE AVENUE.

THE SECOND POSSIBILITY IS IN THE HISTORIC BARELAS NEIGHBORHOOD ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RAIL YARD, FROM THE EAST CORNER OF SECOND AND IRON, EAST TO THE RAILROAD TRACKS AND SOUTH HAZELDINE AVENUE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF FACTORS AT PLAY WHEN IT COMES TO WHETHER OR NOT VOTERS WILL APPROVE THIS MEASURE INCLUDING A COMMUNITY BENEFITS AGREEMENT THAT WILL ACCOMPANY THE BOND MEASURE IF PASSED.

WE HIT THE STREET THIS WEEK TO FIND OUT HOW PEOPLE IN BOTH OF THOSE LOCATIONS FEEL ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH A MAJOR CHANGE RIGHT OUTSIDE THEIR DOOR.

WHAT?

MY FIRST RESPONSE WAS THAT.

WHAT?

AND NO IT IS NOT GOING TO BE HERE.

Padilla: INITIALLY WE WERE A LITTLE UPSET TO FIND IT OUT BECAUSE IT WAS SORT OF AN ACCIDENTAL PROCESS THAT HELPED US TO DISCOVER THAT THE PLAN WAS TO PUT IT IN ONE OF FOUR PREFERRED SPOTS.

WE WOULD HAVE PREFERRED TO HAVE BEEN PART OF THAT CONVERSATION ALL ALONG.

IT REALLY FELT LIKE A SLAP IN THE FACE.

THE GAS STATION WAS THERE.

THERE WAS A LITTLE STORE THERE.

THERE WERE STORES EVERYWHERE, BECAUSE I AM THE PRESIDENT OF THE SOUTH BROADWAY NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, BUT I AM A RESIDENT, A LIFE-LONG RESIDENT OF SOUTH BROADWAY.

ST. FRANCIS.

THAT WAS A BIG ONE.

I HAVE SEEN A LOT OF CHANGES AND I STAYED WHEN A LOT OF PEOPLE LEFT SOUTH BROADWAY, FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.

AFTER MY DAD DIED WE BOUGHT THE HOUSE WE ARE IN FOR $1500.

IT WAS A MESS.

MY FAMILY HATED IT BUT I LIKED IT.

IT IS A COMPLICATED HISTORY OF TRAUMA, LOTS AND LOTS OF DISPLACEMENT AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HURT BY GOVERNMENT AND THE KINDS OF URBAN RENEWAL PROJECTS THAT WERE MEANT TO HELP PEOPLE BUT ENDED UP HURTING PEOPLE.

AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS WE WOULD PURSUE FOR THIS, BECAUSE NOT ONLY WOULD IT GIVE PEOPLE A PLACE TO LIVE BUT IT WOULD HAVE OUR COMMUNITY BE A MUCH MORE VITAL PLACE.

Besaulniers: I THINK WE ARE ALREADY EXTREMELY SPECIAL AND WE NEED TO PRESERVE ALL THE THINGS THAT MAKE US SPECIAL.

WE DEFINITELY ARE THE SOUL OF THAT, THE HEART OF ALBUQUERQUE.

WHAT WAS PUT IN THE BOND ISSUE WAS SORT OF A SKELETON AS A PLACE HOLDER THAT, YOU KNOW, NAMES A FEW SORT OF ITEMS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE.

CBA IS A COMMUNITY BENEFITS AGREEMENT THAT A COMMUNITY CAN NEGOTIATE WITH THE CITY AND UNITED PRIVATE INTERESTS.

TO HAVE THAT ON THE FRONT SIDE OF THE BONDS INSTEAD OF AFTER THE FACT.

THAT GIVES US A LOT OF LEVERAGE TO MAKE WHAT WE WANT OUT OF THIS COMMUNITY BENEFIT AGREEMENT.

IF THIS BOND MEASURE DOES GO THROUGH, THEN WE WOULD HAVE A SERIES OF MEETINGS IN WHICH THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY COULD COME AND MAKE THEIR WISHES KNOWN.

THINGS LIKE, HAVING A LIVING WAGE FOR THE EMPLOYEES WHO WOULD BE WORKING THERE YEAR ROUND.

CHILD CARE FOR PEOPLE WHO WORK THERE, THINGS LIKE A FUNDING STREAM TO ADMINISTER THE CBA AND ONGOING PROCESS BECAUSE IT IS THE KIND OF PROCESS THAT IF IT DOESN'T GET SORT OF TAKEN CARE OF BY COMMUNITY, IT CAN FALL BY THE WAYSIDE.

IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO US THAT OUR NEIGHBORS, WHETHER THEY ARE HOUSED OR UNHOUSED, HAVE THEIR NEEDS ADDRESSED.

REALLY WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT IS EXTENDED PROCESS OF ASKING WHAT DOES THE COMMUNITY WANT TO SEE OUT OF THIS KIND OF AGREEMENT.

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE MORE TRAFFIC THAN WE HAVE ON BROADWAY, MORE NOISES THAN WE ARE USED TO.

WE ARE TRYING OUR BEST TO MAKE SURE WE PLAN FOR THINGS ON THE FRONT SIDE LIKE HAVING PARKING INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED AS PART OF THE CBA.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE PEOPLE GET THE IDEA THAT THIS IS A SAVIOR FOR ALBUQUERQUE.

IT IS NOT.

IT IS NOT.

IT IS A TROJAN HORSE.

THAT IS ALL IT IS.

IT DOESN'T BENEFIT SOUTH BROADWAY AND IN MY OPINION IT DOESN'T BENEFIT BARELAS, BUT BARELAS, THAT IS THEIR OPINION AND THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO MAKE THEIR OWN DECISION.

I AM NOT GOING TO CRITICIZE THEM FOR IT.

I AM EXCITED ABOUT THE PROSPECT OF SOME OF THESE THINGS THAT WE COULD BRING INTO OR COMMUNITY BECAUSE I THINK BARELAS REALLY NEEDS SOME OF THE ECONOMIC VITALITY THAT THIS COULD BRING TO OUR AREA.

Padilla: I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO REITERATE IN THIS WHOLE PROCESS IS THAT WE HAVE HAD A SUCCESS NO MATTER WHETHER THE BOND ISSUE PASSED OR NOT, IN THAT WE HAVE HAD THE CITY LOOK AT A NEWLY EQUITABLE FRAMEWORK FOR HAVING THESE PROJECTS DEVELOPED IN COMMUNITIES GOING FORWARD.

Gene: AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF NUANCE IN THIS DISCUSSION AS WELL AS SERIOUS HAND WRINGING AND THAT INCLUDES NEWS YESTERDAY THAT WORDING FOR THE ISSUE ON THE BALLOT HAS INCONSISTENCIES, RIGHT?

MEASURE PROPOSED IS USING GROSS RECEIPTS TAX BOND MONEY TO PAY FOR THE PROJECT BUT THEN LATER REFERS TO THEM AS GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS.

RIGHT?

GENERAL CONSENSUS IS THIS WAS JUST AN ADMINISTRATIVE ERROR AS THESE PROJECTS ARE USUALLY FUNDED THROUGH THE GO BOND.

SENATOR FELDMAN, DOES THIS SORT OF REINFORCE ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS WE HAVE HEARD HERE THAT THIS WHOLE PROJECT HAS BEEN RUSHED THROUGH THE PROCESS JUST A LITTLE TOO MUCH.

Dede: I THINK THIS IS A MISTAKE ON THE PART OF THE COUNTY, THOSE IN CHARGE OF THE BALLOT, NOT THE CITY.

AND THE COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR HAVE BEEN VERY CLEAR THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO PUT THIS MEASURE UP TO THE VOTERS BUT THEY ARE DOING IT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO AND THEY WANT TO GET PUBLIC SUPPORT AND SEE WHAT THE LEVEL OF PUBLIC SUPPORT IS.

AND THEY ARE GOING TO FIND OUT, I THINK, PRETTY QUICKLY.

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT I DON'T THINK THAT IS GOING TO HAVE MUCH OF AN EFFECT THERE AND I THINK IT WOULD BE ONLY CONSPIRACY THEORISTS WHO THINK THIS IS SOMEHOW DESIGNED TO INFLUENCE IT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

Gene: AS WE ALL KNOW AS A MAJOR PR PUSH FROM THE CITY AND THE TEAM TO TRY AND BUILD SUPPORT AS YOU MIGHT IMAGINE BUT DID THEY NOT DO THEIR HOMEWORK GOING INTO THIS TO AVOID SOME OF THE CRITICISM AND PUSHBACK?

IT SEEMS FAIRLY AVOIDABLE.

Serge: OH MY GOODNESS.

YOU DON'T WANT TO PICK A FIGHT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO WIN.

I HAVE BEEN ASTONISHED AT SEEING THE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T SUPPORT THIS AND DESPITE ALL OF THE STUFF THAT HAS BEEN SHOWING UP IN MY MAILBOX, I DON'T KNOW THAT MOVED THE NEEDLE MUCH ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

AND THE VAGUENESS WITH WHICH SOME OF THIS IS DISCUSSED.

IF WE WIN THERE WILL BE A COMMUNITY BENEFIT AGREEMENT BUT WE ARE NOT GOING TO SAY WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE, WHO IS GOING TO BE AT THE TABLE, HOW THAT IS GOING TO BE APPROVED OR ENFORCED.

THIS IS SOMEONE THAT, OH, I HAVE THIS GREAT IDEA AND EVERYONE SAID, LET'S DO THIS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

IT IS A TERRIBLE IDEA TO START WITH BUT THE ROLL OUT TO ME HAS BEEN -- IT SEEMS LIKE LOTS OF MONEY HAS BEEN THROWN AT THIS WITHOUT A WHOLE LOT OF UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO RESPOND TO.

I HAVE BEEN PLEASED TO SEE THERE IS A WHOLE LOT OF RESISTANCE TO THIS FROM THE PEOPLE OF ALBUQUERQUE.

Gene: WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT ANOTHER REASON FOR OPPOSITION ON THIS ISSUE IS TRUST OR LACK THEREOF.

MANY IN THE COMMUNITY FEEL THEY HAVE BEEN IGNORED FOR YEARS OR EVEN DECADES.

NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT IS THE REASON THEY ARE FINALLY BEING LISTENED TO NOW.

HOW CAN LEADERS GO ABOUT REGAINING TRUST DURING THIS PROCESS?

Dan: I THINK IT IS FUNNY, I LOVE DEDE AND WE HAVE A GREAT RELATIONSHIP BUT I LOVE WHEN SHE SAYS, THE MAYOR DIDN'T HAVE TO DO THIS, THEY ARE DOING IT JUST TO FIND OUT.

NO, THEY ARE DOING IT BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THEIR TEETH KICKED IN IF THEY DIDN'T TRY TO GO TO THE VOTERS FOR IT.

AND I THINK THEY MAY BE REGRETTING GOING TO THE VOTERS FOR IT.

WHENEVER YOU SEE THE FOLKS LIVING IN BARELAS SUPPORTING ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE RIO GRANDE FOUNDATION THERE IS A REAL QUESTION ABOUT IF YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ISSUE.

I THINK THE THING -- THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF QUESTIONS RAISED AND THEN THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT WE'LL TAKE CARE OF YOU GUYS WHEN IT IS DONE.

I DON'T THINK THE PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO ARE BELIEVERS OF THAT ESPECIALLY IN THE AREAS WHERE THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING THIS.

THEY SAY, HEY, WE HAVE THESE THREE OR FOUR AREAS.

NOBODY HAS EVER TOLD YOU WHERE THE FINAL AREA IS YET.

THEY HAVE SAID THEY ELIMINATED ONE OF THEM BUT NOT SURE WHICH OF THE OTHER TWO.

WHICH MAKES EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE OUTSIDE SAY, ALL THAT MEANS IS THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE THE MONEY HAVEN'T BOUGHT UP ALL THE PROPERTY YET.

THAT IS WHY THEY ARE NOT TELLING ANYBODY WHERE IT IS.

I THINK THAT THIS THING IS WROUGHT WITH PROBLEMS.

IT DIDN'T HAVE TO HELP THAT COVID-19 COMES ALONG, TEACHERS QUITTING, HOSPITAL WORKERS, THE PROBLEMS WITH THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT THAT WE ARE HAVING, AND NOW EVERYBODY IS OUT SAYING, THAT 50 MILLION COULD SURE -- EVEN THOUGH IT WOULDN'T BE USED FOR THAT, THAT IS NOT THE PUBLIC'S PERCEPTION, RIGHT.

PERCEPTION IS YOU'RE WASTING 50 MILLION.

SO, AT THE END OF THE DAY I HAVE ALWAYS SAID, I AM NOT OPPOSED -- FIRST OF ALL, THEY SHOULD BE CONGRATULATED FOR GOING TO THE VOTERS.

DEDE IS RIGHT, THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO GO TO THE VOTERS.

I THINK THAT WHENEVER THEY GO TO THE VOTERS, I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AN ADVOCATE SAYING LET THE VOTERS SPEAK.

I AM SURPRISED THERE IS NOT A COMMUNICATION WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO CUT THAT NUMBER GROSSLY IN HALF, FIX THE SOCCER STADIUM UP THERE.

YOU HAVE ALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE, ALL THE PARKING, EVERYTHING IS THERE.

Gene: EVERYONE HAS A REASON NOT TO DO THAT.

EVERYONE IS HUNG UP ON THE FACT THAT HAS TO BE A BRAND NEW STADIUM WHICH IS GOING TO BE THE MOST EXPENSIVE STADIUM IN THE LEAGUE, BY THE WAY.

RIGHT HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

Dan: WITH ONE ROAD IN AND ONE ROAD OUT.

Gene: THANK YOU.

Dan: THE OTHER THING WHICH WE HAVE HEARD BEFORE -- Gene: I HAVE GOT TO GET TO SERGE HERE.

LET ME HOLD YOUR THOUGHT ON THAT.

THE NEWS CAME OUT THAT THE UNITED TEAM IS SPENDING A WHOLE LOT OF PR MONEY WITH A LOT OF FIRMS OUT OF STATE AND THIS DIDN'T SIT TOO WELL WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE.

YOU HAVE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT, NEW MEXICO THIS, NEW MEXICO THAT, AND ALBUQUERQUE THIS AND ALBUQUERQUE THAT.

MEANWHILE, 300 GRAND PLUS WENT OUT THE DOOR TO OHIO FOR TV COMMERCIALS AND STUFF FOR THE TEAM.

DOES THAT STUFF MEAN ANYTHING TO PEOPLE?

IS IT IMPORTANT OR HOW SHOULD WE TAKE THAT?

Serge: I THINK IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO NOT -- THIS HAS BEEN TONE DEAF FROM THE START AND THIS IS TONE DEAFER.

PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THAT MONEY HAS BEEN COMING BACK, LIKE I SAID, IN MY MAILBOX I AM GETTING SOMETHING TWO OR THREE TIMES A DAY.

I HAVE BEEN -- THEY HAVE BEEN PAYING SOMEONE IN OHIO TO SEND THAT TO ME RATHER THAN SOMEONE LOCAL.

AND I THINK TO SAY WE ARE NEW MEXICO UNITED AND ALL THE THINGS ABOUT HOW THIS IS THE STATE'S TEAM AND TO THEN SPEND ALL THAT MONEY OUT OF STATE IS MAYBE MORE REVEALING THAN ANYTHING ELSE AND MAKES ME QUESTION SIGNIFICANTLY THE SINCERITY OF THIS RETROACTIVELY, IN FACT, ABOUT SORT OF THE UNITED -- THE NEW MEXICO UNITED MESSAGE THEY HAVE BEEN CRYING.

Gene: IT COMES ON THE HEELS OF LATE IN THE GAME SUDDENLY THEY FOUND 10 MILLION-DOLLARS THEY COULD HAVE MENTIONED EARLIER IN THE PROCESS HERE.

MEANING THE OWNERS OF THE TEAM.

SENATOR, MAYOR KELLER HAS BEEN A VOCAL SUPPORTER OF BOND PROPOSAL ALTHOUGH HE SAID HE WILL RESPECT WHATEVER DECISION VOTERS MAKE.

SO THE QUESTION, I GOT TO ASK, IS HE ALIGNING HIMSELF WITH THE STADIUM DEAL?

IS IT ONE OR THE OTHER?

IF HE GETS REELECTED, DOES HE LOSE THE STADIUM, DOES HE LOSE BOTH?

DOES IT HURT HIS CHANCES AT THE POLL?

HOW DOES THIS ALL SORT OF INTERSECT TO YOU?

Dede: FIRST OF ALL, I HAVE TO GIVE A DISCLAIMER IN THAT I AM A SUPPORTER OF THE STADIUM AND SECONDLY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I DON'T THINK THERE IS A PERFECT ALIGNMENT THERE.

I THINK THE MAYOR IS DOING THIS BECAUSE HE BELIEVES IN IT.

HE BELIEVES THAT WE NEED TO TAKE A LEAP TO CHANGE OUR DOWNTOWN AND OUR COMMUNITY.

Gene: LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING.

SENATOR, WHY NOT JUST POUR 25 MILLION-DOLLARS INTO DOWNTOWN AND FIX IT?

WHY DOES IT NEED A STADIUM?

Dede: BECAUSE YOU NEED AN ANCHOR.

IMAGINE WHAT DOWNTOWN WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE IF 25 YEARS AGO WE HAD INVESTED IN A FESTIVAL MARKETPLACE OR DURING THE TERM OF JIM BACA IF WE HAD PUT THE ISOTOPES STADIUM DOWNTOWN RATHER THAN WHERE IT IS NOW.

IT IS PART OF THE PACKAGE AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE DISTRUST THIS KIND OF INVESTMENT BUT UNTIL WE ARE WILLING TO MAKE THAT KIND OF INVESTMENT, WE ARE NOT GOING TO GO VERY FAR DOWNTOWN.

Dan: IN A DISCLAIMER, I AM A SEASON TICKET HOLDER AND I TRY TO SUPPORT ORGANIZATIONS.

I THINK WE DO HAVE AN ANCHOR TENANT DOWNTOWN RIGHT NOW.

IT IS CALLED CRIME.

AND I THINK UNTIL THEY FIGURE OUT A WAY TO ADDRESS THAT, YOU KNOW, MY OFFICE IS DOWNTOWN.

I AM DOWNTOWN EVERY SINGLE DAY AND IT IS GETTING MORE AND MORE UNSAFE AND NOT TO GO OFF TANGENT TALKING ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH AND STUFF, WE TALKED ABOUT IT AD NASEAM ON HERE, I THINK IT IS PEOPLE DON'T SEE IT NOW.

MY PREDICTION IS THAT THE MAYOR IS TYING HIMSELF TO THIS WHICH IS NOT A BAD IDEA, RIGHT.

HE IS LOOKING LIKE A GUY WHO IS LETTING THE PEOPLE MAKE A CHOICE, GIVE THEM VOICE.

IF THIS THING LOSES, I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED TO SEE FEDERAL DOLLARS OR STATE DOLLARS COME IN TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN, EVEN IF THE VOTERS SAY THEY DON'T WANT IT TO HAPPEN.

THE LAST THING I WILL SAY IS ALL THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO BE DISPLACED FROM DOWNTOWN, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH THEM?

YOU CAN'T FIND AN APARTMENT TO RENT IN NEW MEXICO RIGHT NOW.

YOU CAN'T FIND A HOUSE TO BUY FOR UNDER 3 OR 400,000 AND I THINK IT IS A TOUGH TIME TO BE MAKING A DECISION LIKE THIS.

Gene: WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO BRING YOU NEW CONTEXT ON THIS ISSUE LEADING UP TO ELECTION DAY ON NOVEMBER 2.

NEXT WEEK WE'LL HEAR FROM CITY COUNCILORS WITH THEIR PERSPECTIVE ON THE BONDS PROPOSAL.

NEW MEXICO AUTHOR WILLIAM DEBUY IS BACK ON BOOK STORE SHELVES WITH ANOTHER NEW OFFERING, THE TRAILS TO KARJIROBA.

HE TAKES US ON HIS JOURNEY WITH A MEDICAL EXPEDITION IN NEPAL.

ALONG THE WAY HE EXPLORES THE IDEA OF EARTH CARE AND WHAT THAT MEANS IN A TIME OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND SPECIES EXTENSION.

THIS WEEK HE JOINS CORRESPONDENT LAURA PASKUS TO TALK ABOUT HIS BOOK AND HIS HOPES FOR THE FUTURE.

Laura: BILL DEBUYS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME TO TALK ABOUT THE NEW BOOK.

IN THIS YOU EXPLORE SOME IDEAS OF EARTH CARE AND THIS NOTION OF NOT TRYING TO SAVE THE EARTH BUT CARE FOR IT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME.

I AM REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS CONVERSATION TODAY.

deBuys: IT IS A PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU LAURA, AS ALWAYS.

Laura: YOU JOINED THE MEDICAL TEAM CHECKING THROUGH REMOTE VILLAGES IN NEPAL.

ALONG THE WAY YOU'RE SEEING SIGNS OF CHANGE, INCLUDING CLIMATE CHANGE.

AND YOU SEEM TO BE MULLING OVER THIS IDEA OF HOSPICE CARE.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT.

deBuys: WELL, THE VALUES OF THE MEDICAL TEAM I WAS ACCOMPANYING WERE THE VALUES OF VERY FUNDAMENTAL MEDICINE.

WE DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO X-RAYS OR SCANS OR BLOOD WORK, LET ALONE, SURGERY.

SO, THE SERVICE DELIVERED WAS VERY DIRECT.

IT WAS CARE OVER CURE.

IT WAS WARM HAND TO WARM HAND.

AND I WONDERED GOING INTO THE TREK WHETHER THOSE VALUES OF CARING MORE THAN FIXING WOULD BE GOOD VALUES TO APPLY TO EARTH CARE.

THIS BOOK IS A THIRD BOOK IN A TRILOGY.

THE FIRST BOOK, A GREAT ARIDNESS IS ON CLIMATE CHANGE.

THE SECOND, THE LAST UNICORN, LOOKS INTO THE TERRIBLE SITUATION OF WILDLIFE AND THE LOSS OF BIODIVERSITY.

AND AFTER DOING THOSE TWO BOOKS I WAS KIND OF HEART SICK AND I WAS LOOKING FOR A WAY TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THE FACTS OF THESE DIRE SITUATIONS DIRECTLY AND NOT LOSE HEART, NOT BE TOO DISCOURAGED, NOT BECOME NUMB OR CYNICAL OR EVEN JUST SHUT DOWN.

BUT STAY COMMITTED, NOT LOSE HEART.

SO, THIS BOOK IS ABOUT MY JOURNEY TRYING TO FIND A WAY NOT TO LOSE HEART, BUT TO SORT OF GAIN HEART AND RECOMMIT TO THE WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

Laura: YOU WROTE IN THIS BOOK, LET'S BE REAL WE DON'T LIVE IN A GENTLE HOLLOW SCENE ANYMORE.

AND NO DOUBT THIS SUMMER HAS PROVEN THAT AND THROUGHOUT THE BOOK YOU GRAPPLE WITH THIS IDEA WHEN IT COMES TO CLIMATE CHANGE AND EVENTUALLY IN THE BOOK YOU WRITE, TO TRUST IN UNCERTAINTY OF THE FUTURE, BELIEVING IN THE POSSIBILITY HOWEVER REMOTE OF BENEFICIAL CHANGE, THAT IS THE ESSENCE OF HOPE.

I FEEL LIKE FOR ME PERSONALLY, THIS IDEA OF HOPE IT KIND OF THROWS ME OFF SOMETIMES BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS A SLOGAN, IF IT IS KIND OF AN INSINCERE PROMISE, IF IT PREVENTS ME FROM MAYBE DOING WHAT I AM SUPPOSED TO DO.

AND SO I LOVED YOUR WRITING ABOUT HOPE IN THIS BOOK AND I AM CURIOUS, WHY IS UNCERTAINTY OF NOT KNOWING WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN SUCH AN IMPORTANT PART OF HOPE?

deBuys: THAT IS THE HEART OF IT IN A WAY.

AS YOU SAY, HOPE IS A REALLY COMPLICATED CONCEPT.

IT MEANS DIFFERENT THINGS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND OFTEN FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE IT JUST MEANS, WILL THIS WORRY GO AWAY?

WILL THINGS GO BACK TO THE NICE WAY THEY USED TO BE?

AND, YOU KNOW, THAT IS OUT OF THE PICTURE FOR US TODAY.

BUT THE KIND OF HOPE THAT RELIES ON ENDURANCE ON BEING OPEN AND PREPARED FOR THINGS TO TURN IN A POSITIVE WAY FOR BENEFICIAL SURPRISE, THAT IS THE KIND OF HOPE THAT IS GOING TO GET US THROUGH THE DILEMMAS WE ARE IN NOW.

IN A WAY, THIS QUEST OF MINE WAS LOOKING FOR NOT JUST AN INTELLECTUAL HOPE, BUT A HOPE IN HERE.

A HOPE THAT SEEPS INTO YOUR WHOLE BEING.

Laura: YOU MENTIONED BENEFICIAL SURPRISE.

ARE THERE ANY EXAMPLES OF THOSE OUT THERE IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW OR THAT WE MIGHT LOOK FORWARD TO WHEN WE ARE THINKING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE?

deBuys: WELL, SPECIFICALLY ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE I DON'T KNOW.

ALL THE DATA LOOKS PRETTY NEGATIVE.

THE BIG BENEFICIAL CHANGE THAT I MENTIONED IN THE BOOK ACTUALLY IS THAT OF THE COLLAPSE OF THE SOVIET UNION.

CIA DIDN'T SEE IT COMING.

NOBODY SAW IT COMING AND WHEN IT CAME, IT CAME REALLY FAST.

AND SOME LEADERS, LIKE VACLAV HAVEL, WHO IS ONE OF MY HEROS, WERE READY FOR IT BECAUSE THEY HAD THE RIGHT KIND OF HOPE TO RESPOND TO THAT SURPRISE AS POSITIVELY AS POSSIBLE AND MAKE SOMETHING REALLY GOOD OUT OF IT, WHICH WAS THE VELVET REVOLUTION IN CZECHOSLOVAKIA.

Laura: I APPRECIATED READING THIS BOOK FOR LOTS OF REASONS, THE HOPE, LOTS OF REASONS.

BUT, IN PARTICULAR, NOT HAVING LEFT NEW MEXICO SINCE BEFORE THE PANDEMIC STARTED, I NEEDED TO GO ON THIS JOURNEY WITH YOU THROUGH THE HIMALAYAS, BUT YOU HAVE LIVED IN NEW MEXICO FOR FOUR DECADES NOW.

WHAT WERE SOME OF THE SIMILARITIES YOU NOTICED IN THE CHANGE THAT YOU ARE SEEING, INCLUDING CLIMATE CHANGE, IN THE HIMALAYAS AND HERE IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO?

deBuys: WELL, ON THESE JOURNEYS WE WERE MOSTLY ABOVE TIMBER LINE, BUT WHEN WE WERE BELOW TIMBER LINE, THE FORESTS WERE SO SIMILAR.

THE PINE IN NEPAL UP TO ABOUT 11,000 FEET OR SO IS A PINE VERY LIKE A PONDEROSA PINE, ANOTHER THREE NEEDLE PINE, AND IT WAS INTERESTING TO ME TO SEE THAT THOSE TREES HAD THE SAME HEALTH PROBLEMS THAT OUR TREES DO.

THE FOREST DYNAMIC OF DRYING, OF TOO MUCH HEAT, INSECT OUTBREAKS, ALL THOSE THINGS SEEMED TO BE HAPPENING THERE IN EXACTLY THE SAME KIND OF PATTERN WE HAVE HERE.

AND IT WAS A MOUNTAIN WORLD.

I LIVE AS YOU KNOW AN HOUR NORTH OF SANTA FE UP IN ONE OF THE SMALL VILLAGES OF NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

AND THE VILLAGE LIFE THERE AND VILLAGE LIFE IN HIMALAYAS AND NEPAL IS NOT ALL THAT DIFFERENT.

Laura: ONE OF THE IDEAS THAT YOU WRITE ABOUT IN THE LAST UNICORN AND IT COMES UP AGAIN IN YOUR NEW BOOK THAT HAS REALLY STUCK WITH ME OVER THE YEARS IS THIS IDEA THAT WE SHARE THIS PLANET WITH ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT SPECIES AND WE ARE JUST THIS LITTLE PLANET IN A VAST UNIVERSE AND EVERY TIME WE ALLOW A SPECIES TO GO EXTINCT, OUR PLANET BECOMES A LITTLE LONELIER.

I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT IDEA AND HOW THAT IDEA EVOLVED IN YOU.

deBuys: ONE OF THE INSPIRING TEACHERS ON THIS SUBJECT FOR ME IS NEW MEXICO PUEBLO INDIAN SCHOLAR, RINA SWENTZELL FROM SANTA CLARA PUEBLO.

ONE OF MY FAVORITE MINI CHAPTERS IN THE BOOK IS TITLED RINA.

I QUOTE HER AS SAYING, I'LL GET THE QUOTE A LITTLE BIT WRONG HERE, BUT SHE IS SAYING, OUR WORLD AS HUMANS HAS JUST BECOME TOO SMALL.

IT IS JUST US.

WE ARE ONLY THINKING ABOUT US AND NOT ABOUT THE WHOLE COMMUNITY OF LIFE THROUGH WHICH FLOWS THE WATER, WIND, BREATH, WHICH IN HER TELLING SOUNDS AN AWFUL LOT LIKE THE DAO OF ANCIENT CHINA.

SHE WOULD SAY.

SHE IS GONE NOW, ALAS, BUT SHE WOULD SAY OUR INVENTION OF AN ANTHROPOMORPHIC GOD MADE US TOO ARROGANT, MADE US SEEING THE WORLD TOO NARROWLY AND WE FORGET ABOUT THE WHOLE CREATION OF WHICH WE ARE A PART WHICH IS REALLY THE MOST GLORIOUS THING ABOUT OUR LIFE ON THIS PLANET IS THE CONNECTEDNESS OF ALL THOSE THINGS.

Laura: LIKE YOU MENTIONED, THIS BOOK IS THE THIRD IN A TRILOGY, A GREAT ARIDNESS, THE LAST UNICOR.

THE GRADE ARIDNESS CAME OUT IN 2011.

I AM CURIOUS HOW YOUR WRITING HAS CHANGED, HOW YOU BEAR WITNESS COMPARED WITH BACK IN 2011. deBuys: THAT IS A QUESTION I HAVE NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT, WHAT I WANT FROM THE READER.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS CHANGED FOR ME IS JUST TO BE MORE CONFIDENT THAT I DON'T HAVE TO ORGANIZE THINGS AHEAD OF TIME.

I DON'T HAVE TO PREPARE AS MUCH.

I CAN GO INTO A TRIP OR WRITING EFFORT AND JUST FIGURE IT OUT AS I GO ALONG AND I THINK WHAT I MOST WANT FROM A READER IS JUST AN OPENNESS TO TAKE THE JOURNEY WITH ME, TO JUST SEE WHAT HAPPENS AS WELL.

I THINK THIS IS A BOOK THAT HAS A NUMBER OF SURPRISING TURNS AND SURPRISES IN IT AND IF YOU STAY WITH IT A LITTLE BIT, I THINK THE REWARDS ARE THERE.

BUT, THERE IS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF ESTABLISHING MATTERS, A CERTAIN MATTER OF EXPOSITION THAT IS REQUIRED FOR THE BEST PART TO MAKE ALL THE SENSE THAT IT CAN.

THE END RESISTED ME FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.

BUT FINALLY NOW I FEEL THE END IS THE BEST PART OF THE WHOLE BOOK.

Laura: I WAS VERY HAPPY TO GO ON THAT JOURNEY WITH YOU.

I AM SURE VIEWERS WILL BE TOO.

THANK YOU BILL FOR JOINING ME.

deBuys: IT HAS BEEN A PLEASURE.

THANK YOU LAURA.

Gene: THE STATE'S TOP ECONOMIC AUTHORITY IS SIDING WITH STATE LAWMAKERS QUESTIONING WHETHER THE GOVERNOR HAS THE POWER TO UNILATERALLY ALLOCATE FEDERAL COVID-19 RELIEF MONEY.

NEW MEXICO TREASURER TIM EICHENBERG SAYS THE STATE'S CONSTITUTION REQUIRES INPUT FROM THE LEGISLATURE.

ON THE OTHER HAND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IS POINTING TO PAST LEGAL PRECEDENT IT SAYS SUPPORTS THE GOVERNOR'S APPROACH SO FAR.

BIPARTISAN LAWSUIT IS PENDING IN THE STATE SUPREME COURT.

WHILE WE WAIT FOR PROGRESS THERE, WE TURN TO THE LINE OPINION PANEL FOR THEIR TAKE.

AS SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN IN THESE SORTS OF POWER STRUGGLES BEFORE, SERGE, IS THERE ANY WAY TO GET THIS CLEARED UP BEFORE THE COURT MAKES A DECISION?

Serge: YOU KNOW THEY ARE HAVING AN ARGUMENT IN A FEW WEEKS ON THIS.

I THINK THAT IS NOT ENOUGH TIME FOR FOLKS TO REACH ANY SORT OF AGREEMENT.

IT REQUIRES THE SORT OF THING THAT NEW MEXICO IS NOT GREAT AT, GETTING EVERYBODY TO SIT DOWN AND TALK ABOUT THIS AND FIGURE SOMETHING OUT.

SO, I AM NOT SUPER OPTIMISTIC THIS IS GOING TO BE RESOLVED ANYWHERE BUT AT THE SUPREME COURT WHICH IS THE WORST PLACE TO HAVE THESE SORTS OF THINGS DECIDED, IN THE COURTS AND NOT WITH THE PEOPLE INVOLVED.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE LEGAL ARGUMENT I AM A LITTLE BIT FAMILIAR WITH THEM ON BOTH SIDES AND I CAN'T SAY WHICH WAY THE COURT IS GOING TO COME DOWN ON THIS.

AS I SEE THIS, RIGHT, SOME OF THIS IS A FUNCTION OR TO ME REFLECTS THE BIG ISSUE WE HAVE IN NEW MEXICO, OUR LEGISLATURE DOESN'T MEET HARDLY EVER AND IT IS ALWAYS THIS HUGE LIFT TO GET EVERYONE TOGETHER TO FIGURE THESE THINGS OUT.

SO, WHATEVER THE CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTION IS, THE ANSWER IS, THERE IS ALSO THE PRACTICAL QUESTION OF HOW THIS MONEY GETS ALLOCATED AND SPENT AND NEW MEXICO IS POORLY DESIGNED FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS, A BIG CHUNK OF MONEY THAT NEEDS TO GET OUT QUICKLY AND SHOULD BE GETTING OUT QUICKLY AND HOW IT IS TO BE DONE.

WE SHOT OURSELVES IN THE FOOT A LITTLE BIT WITH OUR LEGISLATIVE STRUCTURE HERE.

Gene: INTERESTING POINTS.

SENATOR WE ALL KNOW THE LEGISLATURE HOLDS THE PURSE STRINGS IN GOVERNMENT.

DOES A PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY TRUMP THAT OR WOULD THE GOVERNOR HAVE BEEN BETTER SERVED TO BRING LAWMAKERS IN ON THE DISCUSSION FROM THE GET-GO?

WAS THAT THE BETTER WAY TO GO?

Dede: I THINK BOTH OF YOUR STATEMENTS ARE TRUE.

THE GOVERNOR WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF BY BRINGING THE LEGISLATORS IN FROM THE VERY BEGINNING STARTING WITH THIS IN JANUARY OR EVEN BEFORE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT ARE THE MAJOR CRISES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED DURING THIS PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY.

BILL RICHARDSON DID SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHEN RA FUNDING OR RECOVERY ACT FUNDING WAS AVAILABLE.

HE ACTUALLY APPOINTED A COMMISSION AND WENT AROUND THE STATE AND GOT A LOT MORE PUBLIC INPUT INTO IT THAN THIS GOVERNOR HAS AND VETTED A LOT OF THE STUFF WITH THE CHAIR OF THAT COMMITTEE AND THE LEGISLATURE, BUT, YES, I DO THINK THAT A PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY TRUMPS THE POWER OF THE LEGISLATURE TO BE APPROPRIATING FEDERAL FUNDS WHICH I THINK IS QUESTIONABLE ANYWAY ON LEGAL GROUNDS.

BUT SHE HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN GETTING MONEY OUT THE DOOR QUICKLY.

JUST YESTERDAY WE READ ABOUT THE MONEY THAT NEW MEXICO AND ALBUQUERQUE MET THE FEDERAL DEADLINE FOR HOUSING FUNDS.

TODAY THERE WAS ANOTHER ARTICLE ABOUT HOW MONEY IS GOING OUT THE DOOR FOR CHILD CARE.

I THINK CONSULTATION DOES SLOW DOWN THAT PROCESS AND WE ARE IN A PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY.

Gene: SPEAKING OF WHICH, THE GOVERNOR HAS EXTENDED THE MASK MANDATE UNTIL AT LEAST NOVEMBER 12.

THE STATE HAS MOVED BACK INTO A CRISIS STANDARD OF CARE MODEL WE TALKED ABOUT A LOT IN THE SHOW TO HELP -- TO HELP MAKE DIFFICULT DECISIONS ABOUT HEALTHCARE.

AS THE ENTIRE SYSTEM IS PUSHED TO THE BRINK.

WE HAVEN'T HAD THESE THINGS SINCE DECEMBER OF LAST YEAR, THESE THINGS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

ARE THESE PRUDENT MOVES BY THE GOVERNOR ON HER PART IN YOUR OPINION?

Dan: THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO DO WHAT THE GOVERNOR DOES.

I THINK I AM NOT NECESSARILY ON BOARD WITH A LOT OF THE DECISIONS ON THE WHOLE PANDEMIC DEAL.

I THINK WHAT PEOPLE ARE GETTING UPSET WITH IS THERE IS AS MUCH OF A FRUSTRATION ABOUT OUR LACK OF HEALTHCARE WORKERS AS THERE IS FILLING THE BEDS.

I THINK THAT WHAT PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO SEE IS IT IS NOT THAT BEDS ARE FULL OR HOSPITALS ARE FULL.

IT IS THAT THE AMOUNT OF BEDS THAT ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THE PERCENTAGE OF WORKERS THAT ARE THERE ARE FULL AND I THINK THAT IS THE FRUSTRATING PART FOR PEOPLE.

SO, THE INTERESTING PART BACK TO WHAT YOU WERE ASKING DEDE, THE CONSULTATIVE PART, IT IS INTERESTING TO SEE A DEMOCRAT GOVERNOR WITH A DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED LEGISLATURE THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO COME UP WITH A PLAN TO DO THIS AND FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO THIS.

NORMALLY IT IS A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR, DEMOCRAT LEGISLATURE AT ODDS WITH WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO AND THAT IS WHEN THE FIGHTING STARTS.

BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, AND I KNOW SERGE WOULD NEVER SAY THIS, WON'T EVEN LAUGH BECAUSE HE IS A GREAT LAWYER AND VERY WELL RESPECTED.

I CAN TELL YOU HOW THE SUPREME COURT IS GOING TO DECIDE THIS.

THEY ARE GOING TO LOOK AT PEOPLE THAT ARE ANGRY AND THEY ARE GOING TO SAY WHO IS GOING TO BE AROUND LONGER DECIDING OUR FUNDING AND THAT IS GOING TO BE THE SIDE THAT ACTUALLY WINS.

SO I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER VICTORY FOR THE LEGISLATURE BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING TO LOOK AROUND AND GO, WELL, GOVERNOR, MAX 4 YEARS, AND SOME OF THESE GUYS THAT ARE COMPLAINING ARE GOING TO BE AROUND FOR 10 OR 15 MORE YEARS, WE ARE GOING TO SIDE WITH THEM.

Gene: YOU KNOW HOW THIS GAME WORKS.

INTERESTING.

SERGE, INTERIM HEALTH SECRETARY SCRACE EXPRESSED HIS ONGOING CONCERN ABOUT THE BURDEN ON OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM ESPECIALLY WORKERS WE TALKED ABOUT WITH DAN.

ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THE LONG LASTING IMPACTS OF THIS PANDEMIC AS THIS CRISIS LINGERS ON AND ON IN NEW MEXICO.

Serge: OF COURSE I AM.

THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE HOW LONG THIS HAS GONE ON, RIGHT.

I KNOW THE GOVERNOR HAS EXTENDED HER EMERGENCY ORDER 22 TIMES AS I UNDERSTAND IT, BECAUSE WE ALL KEEP THINKING ANY MINUTE NOW THIS IS GOING TO END.

THERE IS NO WAY THIS DOESN'T HAVE A HUGE LONG-TERM EFFECT AND DOESN'T CAUSE EVERYBODY TO REVISIT WHAT THEIR JOB IS, WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, HOW THEY WANT TO LIVE THEIR LIVES AND WHERE THEY WANT TO SPEND THEIR TIME AND THE UNCERTAINTY OF ALL THIS ONLY HEIGHTENS THAT, WHICH, YOU KNOW, THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY A BAD THING THAT PEOPLE ARE RETHINKING WHAT IS ON IN THEIR LIVES BUT THIS IS OBVIOUSLY GOING TO BE THE DEFINING EVENT FOR SO MANY THINGS BUT ESPECIALLY OUR HEALTH SYSTEM AS WE LOOK BACK AND THINK, WHAT ARE ALL THE WAYS THIS WENT WRONG?

HOW CAN WE POSSIBLY DEAL WITH SOMETHING IN THE FUTURE AND THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE GOING TO BE INVOLVED AND WHAT WE EXPECT FROM THEM.

I AM GLAD PEOPLE ARE THINKING ABOUT THIS NOW, OBVIOUSLY, STRESSING THAT IT HAS TAKEN THIS EXTENDED PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS TO BRING US TO THIS POINT.

Dan: IF YOU GO TO THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT WEBSITE AND LOOK AT NUMBER OF BEDS AVAILABLE IN NEW MEXICO AND NUMBERS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE FILLING THEM WITH COVID-19, THERE IS A HUGE DISCREPANCY BETWEEN THE NUMBER OF BEDS THEY SAY PHYSICALLY ARE AVAILABLE VERSUS NUMBER OF PEOPLE.

THE PROBLEM IS THE HEALTHCARE WORKER AND I THINK WHAT IS INTERESTING IS THAT AS I AM SITTING HERE TALKING TO YOU GUYS FROM MY OFFICE, I AM LOOKING AT THIS GREAT EXPANSION PRESBYTERIAN IS DOING RIGHT DOWN THE STREET, UNMH IS DOING.

UNBELIEVABLE BUILDING IN THIS STATE FOR HOSPITALS, ESPECIALLY IN THE METRO AREA.

YET WE CAN'T FIND PEOPLE TO WORK IN THEM AND NO ONE SEEMS TO WANT TO ADDRESS THAT PROBLEM.

I THINK IT IS THE OLD ADAGE FROM THE MOVIE, IF YOU BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME.

I THINK THE PLAN IS IF YOU BUILD THIS SPACE, PEOPLE WILL COME TO WORK HERE BUT I AM NOT SURE YOU'RE GOING TO GET THE HEALTHCARE WORKERS TO FILL THE SPACES SO PATIENTS CAN GET THE CARE THEY NEED.

Gene: THAT IS ALL FOR THE LINE THIS WEEK.

WE THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR THOUGHTFUL COMMENTS AS ALWAYS AND BE SURE TO KEEP UP WITH THE SHOW EACH WEEK ON FACEBOOK, TWITTER, INSTAGRAM OR YOUTUBE CHANNELS.

I WANT TO THANK COUNTY CLERK LINDA STOVER FOR CARVING OUT SOME TIME FOR US EARLIER THIS WEEK ON OUR NEW FACEBOOK LIVE DISCUSSION ON THE HOW'S AND WHERE ONE EXERCISES THEIR RIGHT TO VOTE.

I GOT TO THINKING ABOUT HOW MANY COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD WOULD BE SHOCKED AT THE EASE AND OPENNESS OF OUR SYSTEM.

BY ANY MEASURE WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR SYSTEM IT COULDN'T BE EASIER TO REGISTER AND VOTE AND IF YOU WATCH NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, THERE IS NO END TO ISSUES NEEDING YOUR VOICE RIGHT NOW.

GO SIGN UP.

SEE YOU ON NOVEMBER 2.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.